I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Why did you ask this when everyone has already claimed?
Because I was hoping he hadn't noticed we'd already claimed. Then there's a chance that he'll post something contradictory and mess up.
The odds are pretty low, since a mafia is probably going to look back at the thread before making a falseclaim, but I though it was worth trying.
Also, I'm not sure what to make of the fact he or she pointed out that we had already falseclaimed, rather than just post a claim.
Part of me thinks it's rather townie, for not trying to act like he or she hadn't noticed the trap, but part of me also thinks it's coming from a scummy mindset--searching out and linking to the exact post where bman claimed seems a bit unnatural for a townie, who would normally just post their role.
So it's a bit WIFOM, but I'm reading it more of a scum reaction than a town one.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Because I was hoping he hadn't noticed we'd already claimed. Then there's a chance that he'll post something contradictory and mess up.
The odds are pretty low, since a mafia is probably going to look back at the thread before making a falseclaim, but I though it was worth trying.
Also, I'm not sure what to make of the fact he or she pointed out that we had already falseclaimed, rather than just post a claim.
Part of me thinks it's rather townie, for not trying to act like he or she hadn't noticed the trap, but part of me also thinks it's coming from a scummy mindset--searching out and linking to the exact post where bman claimed seems a bit unnatural for a townie, who would normally just post their role.
So it's a bit WIFOM, but I'm reading it more of a scum reaction than a town one.
Cool, just wondering. Makes sense now, actually.
I can't decide whether you're onto something here, or way off track. It does seem weird she wouldn't just re post her role, but on the other hand if she read the entire thread she likely would know the general area bman claimed.
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Ok, I'm still working on a re-read, but I can go ahead and address this.
I have been reading, off and on, and did see that bman had already claimed. It is not hard at all to find a post if you know who posted it, so rather than pull up my role PM (since I always have it open when posting a claim) I located that post and linked it to you.
And, to anyone who doesn't know and wants to, I am a female irl It doesn't bother me too much when people put he since I am in a man's world here, heh.
Suddenly, I am very happy with my vote on RafK. Think about it:
N1, I target lrd. My title is Watcher, so if I understand this correctly it means I see whoever targets the person I target, and with my role they both become sticky. In the morning both lrd and RafK were sticky. I assumed that lrd had targeted RafK, which made more sense after his doc claim.
But what if I had this backwards? Lrd self protected, and Raf tried to kill lrd,
thus making them both sticky.
Of course the flaw in this is that RafK claimed nk-immune, and is willing to have Gamerz
test it. Unless... Is nk-immune a scum ability? Come to think of it I did have that in manipulator...
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Suddenly, I am very happy with my vote on RafK. Think about it:
N1, I target lrd. My title is Watcher, so if I understand this correctly it means I see whoever targets the person I target, and with my role they both become sticky. In the morning both lrd and RafK were sticky. I assumed that lrd had targeted RafK, which made more sense after his doc claim.
But what if I had this backwards? Lrd self protected, and Raf tried to kill lrd,
thus making them both sticky.
Of course the flaw in this is that RafK claimed nk-immune, and is willing to have Gamerz
test it. Unless... Is nk-immune a scum ability? Come to think of it I did have that in manipulator...
1.lrd couldn't actually self-protect iirc
2.you said your ability is tracker
1.lrd couldn't actually self-protect iirc
2.you said your ability is tracker
Did he say he couldn't self protect?
I thought my ability was tracker, in spite of my title being watcher, because I thought lrd had targeted Raf. That's my point though - what if I had that backwards?
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I thought my ability was tracker, in spite of my title being watcher, because I thought lrd had targeted Raf. That's my point though - what if I had that backwards?
Okay, please ask MMoD if he made a mistake when he wrote watcher and he really actually meant tracker. This is like the only way to actually figure out what on earth you really are.
Have you ever just asked MMoD straight out to clarify if you are a watcher or he made a mistake and you are in fact a tracker?
I agree. I don't see the point of having a double watcher and then a silly gimmick sticky watcher.. I also don't think MMoD would straight up lie about his ability.
I honestly don't know who to be voting for right now. I mean, the no lynch idea got shot down pretty heavily, I haven't seen anything astoundingly scummy from Nom, who seems to be the favored lynch, and the Buranri thing is making my head hurt. I see a reason to lynch him because as I said before, I don't see the point of two fundamentally different watchers in a single mini.
I agree. I don't see the point of having a double watcher and then a silly gimmick sticky watcher.. I also don't think MMoD would straight up lie about his ability.
I honestly don't know who to be voting for right now. I mean, the no lynch idea got shot down pretty heavily, I haven't seen anything astoundingly scummy from Nom, who seems to be the favored lynch, and the Buranri thing is making my head hurt. I see a reason to lynch him because as I said before, I don't see the point of two fundamentally different watchers in a single mini.
Ok, so I've read the entire thread to get a feel for what's going on. I'll start out with a list, and will post PBPAs probably tomorrow.
2. StormBlind - Actively scum-hunting. I don't think it's a point against him that he claimed "Townie". Leaning town.
Also, please don't decide to kill me because bman lurked. You know I don't
3. jerubbaal - Seems pretty town to me, although I would prefer if he'd post more often
5. Gamerz - Also actively scumhunting and seems town.
6. Zebi - Something feels off on him. Planning to do a PBPA on him. Putting him neutral.
7. Nom_Anor - /barning Gamerz and Stormblind on him. He's played scummy as hell this game.
8. RafaelK - Pretty sure he's town, same boat as jerubbaal on the posting.
9. Buranri - Another I'm planning to do a PBPA on. Also neutral.
10. MandersHex - obv town
11. shibui - PBPA planned as well. Neutral
12. Syrenz - This is textbook Syrenz town play imo.
This... Is actually fairly convincing. Did he ever clarify why exactly his role is town hero, as opposed to vanilla town, or whatever the standard name is? The more I think the more I remember Basic #17, where we caught a scum because he claimed vanilla town instead of town survivor.
I think it's a very different situation. Vanilla town is the standard vanilla claim, town survivor is an unusual name for it. Here, instead of claiming vanilla town (like the person right above him does) he claims town hero which is really unusual and has me thinkning that he is telling the truth.
Second, it does indeed say Town Hero, but I have no abilities. I have a different title because I'm dead, people look up to me, and it's kind of a memorial type thing.
Yeah, this is definitely the time to go for testing Gamerz' out. 3 votes on me is "safe", since the guy being lynched can't just switch across and quicklynch me (if two scum want to reveal themselves by combining to do it, I can live with that). That might not be the case on later nights.
Today is most definitely the best day to test his ability as I can't see a downfall now, but could see it later.
We're in the middle of a massclaim.
Before you do anything else, please claim so we don't have to wait on you anymore.
This is the last straw for me. This attempt to trap a replacement simply due to the fact that I have a different role name (when RafK's already pointed out this has happened in games past) feels like scum trying to really push a mislynch. Vote: Nom_Anor
I really believe this is our best step forward.
Actually... No, lol. The results from N1 seemed to say that I was a tracker, so I just went with that.
It gives me pause that you didn't think to ask MMOD for clarification since you knew that they (and we now) were confused by it and it was slightly distracting from scum-hunting.
This is the last straw for me. This attempt to trap a replacement simply due to the fact that I have a different role name (when RafK's already pointed out this has happened in games past) feels like scum trying to really push a mislynch. Vote: Nom_Anor
I really believe this is our best step forward.
Please tell me how what I did could possibly be scum looking to get a mislynch on you. Setting a trap for someone you think is scum is just good logic--especially when it's a trap that only scum are going to fall into.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Please tell me how what I did could possibly be scum looking to get a mislynch on you. Setting a trap for someone you think is scum is just good logic--especially when it's a trap that only scum are going to fall into.
This is not a trap that only scum could fall into. I have seen examples of townies who lie about their role (Seppel and red_0mega in JW comes to mind right away), so it is possible that a townie could fall for that trap as well.
Personally, I see no reason for a townie to ever lie, but that's neither here nor there.
However, this latest attempt to get bman (and now myself) lynched was just incredibly opportunistic and over the top, what with the enormous text. And, like I said, just the latest of the scummy things you've done in this game.
Second, it does indeed say Town Hero, but I have no abilities. I have a different title because I'm dead, people look up to me, and it's kind of a memorial type thing.
Does it specifically say you have that different title because you are dead?
My flavour has no indication that I was brought back from the dead, it simply states that I'm a symbol of courage and hope to Canadians.
It's strange that bman wouldn't just say that he actually was dead over here. From the fact that he said "it simply states" it sounds like there's no mention of death at all. Which makes me wonder if you just made that up.
Quote from MH »
This is the last straw for me. This attempt to trap a replacement simply due to the fact that I have a different role name (when RafK's already pointed out this has happened in games past) feels like scum trying to really push a mislynch. Vote: Nom_Anor
I really believe this is our best step forward.
I actually think that thing NA did is indicative of him being town. The attempt to trap a replacement could only possibily succeed if you were scum. If NA is scum he knows bman was telling the truth about being Terry Fox, Town Hero and therefore knows that you will say that as well meaning he can't possibily trap you. However, if you are scum it's possible that bman lied about his role and you wouldn't have seen what he said and would come up with a falseclaim that would contradict what bman had said. Only possible benefit from that post is for town.
Does it specifically say you have that different title because you are dead?
Yes and no. Let's review bman's post again:
Quote from bman »
My flavour has no indication that I was brought back from the dead, it simply states that I'm a symbol of courage and hope to Canadians.
I believe this is going to be the key portion of this sentence. Why he was being so cryptic, I don't know, but the role PM doesn't indicate I was brought back from the dead. However, it does mention that I am dead, but states I'm the hero because of the affect I have on Canadians everywhere, being a "symbol of courage and hope".
It's strange that bman wouldn't just say that he actually was dead over here. From the fact that he said "it simply states" it sounds like there's no mention of death at all. Which makes me wonder if you just made that up.
Again, I can't speak for why he did what he did. All I can do is state the truth, which is what you're getting.
I actually think that thing NA did is indicative of him being town. The attempt to trap a replacement could only possibily succeed if you were scum. If NA is scum he knows bman was telling the truth about being Terry Fox, Town Hero and therefore knows that you will say that as well meaning he can't possibily trap you. However, if you are scum it's possible that bman lied about his role and you wouldn't have seen what he said and would come up with a falseclaim that would contradict what bman had said. Only possible benefit from that post is for town.
The fact that I've already pointed out how it could mean he is scum makes this a null point in this situation, imo. The rest of his play is what lead me to believe he is scum.
I haven't played in many games, so I apologize if I'm way off here, but from what I have read generally jumping around and being very aggressive is seen as bad...
So you barn off shibui (whose case seems to be "you aren't being aggressive") and then admit to not reading any of my town games... which is actually only 17. We were in 15 together, so remember back to that if you want an example of my scum game.
Haha. Sorry, I though I had voted him here, I think I got this game and DM mixed up.
vote joboman
Seriously? You spent some time posting you thought he was scum and was the right lynch for the day, and you hadn't even voted? Your reasoning being you confused this game with another?
The only reason I'm slightly buying it is because I can think of no other excuse for it. Even scum wouldn't not vote someone after stating they think they're scum. But, it's horrible play.
The stickiness was me, a watcher ability. I didn't get any results.
I just want to point out that this, too, seemed to me to say that you targeted RafK to cause the stickiness, and I don't understand how you don't see it yourself.
I claimed because he had said that he thought the stickiness was a scum side effect, and I did not want that to still be associated with scum late game if I was forced to claim.
But since that wagon progressed so fast...
I am Maple Syrup. Each night I target a player, and make them sticky. I am informed of their actions that night. Also, they are told they are sticky.
Last night I targeted lrd, and in the morning was told that both RafK and lrd were sticky. Why this is I do not know. Either way, neither of them did anything last night.
Ok, early in the game, you said that revealing your name would probably out your role. How? No one ever asked you to explain this, but when I think Maple Syrup, I don't think Watcher.
If you are telling the truth about your role, how could you not see that?
You claim to have targeted lrd and it results in lrd and RafK being sticky. How is your first thought not "Wow, the syrup must have transferred onto RafK because lrd targeted him last night?"
I targeted StormBlind last night. I have no idea what's going on with the doc thing, but I picked a player who feels town to me, and shibui does not fit there ATM. He didn't target anyone.
So you pick a player who seems town? Really? This makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
On top of these things, he's done very little relevant scum-hunting and has done a lot of /barning of people. I would also support a Buranri lynch.
I'm saying no to any more kinds of claims at this point. I don't see why we would if it's going to expose people. No need to give out more info than needed.
See, the thing about your claim is this. You could have claimed "Eh" eons ago, and it wouldn't have told us (a) that you were a tracker or (b) that we had to say "Eh" for you to be able to track us.
In fact, imo, this is the situation with most of the claims we have. Not all, but most.
Much of what I have to say about Buranri relies on what lrd has to say. I'm really interested as to whether his ability is that of a tracker or watcher, and I think lrd may be able to help us out there.
Why not? Either Buranri is lying, or Lrd is lying. Lying generally means scum, and part of my role makes me want to believe that it's Buranri who's lying, although I have no solid evidence either way because he's being so wishy washy about it.
My role isn't that tightly related, it's just enough to make me warrant suspiscion.
But, wait! You've been hinting for quite some time that your role was pretty closely tied to Buranri's, even going so far as to say that part of your role makes you believe he's lying!
What happened?
Okay, well I'm a double tracker. I have a restriction to who I can track which is related to my rolename and flavor. If I claim either of those, I will essentially be vanilla. So I don't plan to.
I find it hard to believe you didn't realize that by telling us what we needed to do for your ability to work, you would be able to assure that we all did it.
Random theory here, feel free to shoot me down.. But if there's no NK, couldn't we just keep no lynching and have all the information roles do what they can each night?
I don't like this at all, either.
If anyone's thinking that no lynch may be good for the town based on how well it worked in Indiana Jones mafia, take a moment to go back and look at the case Axelrod made for a no lynch. He literally had to show that there was absolutely no possible drawback from it for us to even consider it.
For you to propose something as radical as a no lynch without a phenomenal case for it bothers me greatly. I have to /barn SB and say that it's lazy.
Conclusion: I get bad feelings from Zebi. I believe his claim, just not that it's a town role. And, he hasn't done a whole lot of scumhunting either.
Hmm, this is starting to seem a pattern.
Ok, I looked over Shibui's posts again, and there's not really anything there. He said many times his role name did not match his ability (which it doesn't) and he's been asking some good questions of plenty of people. He appears town for the most part.
Ok, I looked over Shibui's posts again, and there's not really anything there. He said many times his role name did not match his ability (which it doesn't) and he's been asking some good questions of plenty of people. He appears town for the most part.
damn skippy.
My thoughts have not changed, and I'm not sure what the hold up is - oh wait, in order to lynch Nom and vig RafK it requires the entirety of the town and scum to be on the same page.
Firstly, I will ask Nom to vote for RafK so I may unvote, vote Nom and Gamerz can still shoot.
Secondly, Zebi's failure to act on literally anything continues to paint him in a bad light.
Syrenz's case is a stretch IMO. It'd be impossible to prove that MH actually made a slip since bman is fairly tight lipped in general and MH is not.
Here's my current thoughts, delivered, as standard, via player list.
Quote from jerubbaal »
Simple enough. Role cop Manders tonight. See what comes up. If shes town hero, then *ALOT* of the issues regarding the *ROLE* go away. Even if Bmans (Badmans) play doesnt. But... as stated, we cant hold that against manders too badly. Frustrating. i HATE replacements. Its why i probation them -_-
Quote from Gamerz »
I dont quite like the shoot at rafk thing. Cause its pretty much accepted that he isnt mafia, even if i have slight inclinations towards other alignments...
Quote from Zebi & Buranri »
I basically part and parcel these guys. They are opposite sides of the coin, and im growing increasingly certain one or the other is scum. I dont see the town getting TWO of the same role, especially when zebi is a DOUBLE tracker. Tracker/watcher is generally considered on par with a cop, if not better since it gives more actions to keep aware of, and makes them dying less a blow as they cant RB both of them down ect.
From a design perspective? I cant see a double tracker and a watcher/tracker (whatever he is, we'll see) in the same game.
Quote from Nom_Anor »
As stated, i DONT Like NOMNOMNOM's play. I think he should hang, and i will stand by that. I agree with whoever said that townies should never lie. Its the principle foundation of mafia. Mafia lie, Townies tell the truth (Unless they have a damn good reason not too). Again, you shouldn't NEED "traps" that are of definitely questionable effectiveness. (that trap had equal chances to nail either alignment equally). And in general, your play this game has been sneaky, underhanded, and all around LAZY. Your "scum hunting" has seemingly been redirected towards "trying" then giving up almost immediately, or just... sitting on it. This isnt the nomnomnom i know. The nomnomnom i know is considered a decent-good analyst, and a decently solid player. Im NOT seeing that here. Im seeing... you coasting. It doesnt fit. You should die for it.
[quote=RafaelK] I just have a strange foreboding feeling in regards to Rafk. I dunno why. I just... have the feeling we're going to give him a free ride for nothing.
Quote from Buranri »
See Zebi. Both scummy. One are town, other is scum. We should look here if no one else is interested in NOMNOMNOM
Quote from mandershex »
Has come out entirely too aggressive. Havent played with her enough to know if thats standard play for her or not. I'll wait to see what happens with jerubbaal and manders tonight. He could definitely help us solve the problems
Quote from =shibui »
I like Shibui, if only because he agree's with me a great deal. HI SHIBUI!
Quote from Syrenz »
Definitely the towniest vanilla here. Ill definitely push to have you in the end game as you're very logical and TRYING. You deserve to live!
Those are my thoughts.
My order of thoughts: Either lynch NOMNOMNOM, and get enough votes on Rafk to allow gamerz to shoot Rafk and test him. Or, we decide between Zebi and Buranri. Jerub can largely help us solve the manders question (hero? A dead canadian? Buh?), and besides that... no ones going to lynch rafk based off my gut.
Vote for NOMNOMNOM Please.
Or POST AND THINK about zebi / buranri.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Here's my current thoughts, delivered, as standard, via player list.
Quote from jerubbaal »
Simple enough. Role cop Manders tonight. See what comes up. If shes town hero, then *ALOT* of the issues regarding the *ROLE* go away. Even if Bmans (Badmans) play doesnt. But... as stated, we cant hold that against manders too badly. Frustrating. i HATE replacements. Its why i probation them -_-
Quote from Gamerz »
I dont quite like the shoot at rafk thing. Cause its pretty much accepted that he isnt mafia, even if i have slight inclinations towards other alignments...
Quote from Zebi & Buranri »
I basically part and parcel these guys. They are opposite sides of the coin, and im growing increasingly certain one or the other is scum. I dont see the town getting TWO of the same role, especially when zebi is a DOUBLE tracker. Tracker/watcher is generally considered on par with a cop, if not better since it gives more actions to keep aware of, and makes them dying less a blow as they cant RB both of them down ect.
From a design perspective? I cant see a double tracker and a watcher/tracker (whatever he is, we'll see) in the same game.
Quote from Nom_Anor »
As stated, i DONT Like NOMNOMNOM's play. I think he should hang, and i will stand by that. I agree with whoever said that townies should never lie. Its the principle foundation of mafia. Mafia lie, Townies tell the truth (Unless they have a damn good reason not too). Again, you shouldn't NEED "traps" that are of definitely questionable effectiveness. (that trap had equal chances to nail either alignment equally). And in general, your play this game has been sneaky, underhanded, and all around LAZY. Your "scum hunting" has seemingly been redirected towards "trying" then giving up almost immediately, or just... sitting on it. This isnt the nomnomnom i know. The nomnomnom i know is considered a decent-good analyst, and a decently solid player. Im NOT seeing that here. Im seeing... you coasting. It doesnt fit. You should die for it.
Quote from RafaelK »
I just have a strange foreboding feeling in regards to Rafk. I dunno why. I just... have the feeling we're going to give him a free ride for nothing.
Quote from Buranri »
See Zebi. Both scummy. One are town, other is scum. We should look here if no one else is interested in NOMNOMNOM
Quote from mandershex »
Has come out entirely too aggressive. Havent played with her enough to know if thats standard play for her or not. I'll wait to see what happens with jerubbaal and manders tonight. He could definitely help us solve the problems
Quote from Shibui »
I like Shibui, if only because he agree's with me a great deal. HI SHIBUI!
Quote from Syrenz »
Definitely the towniest vanilla here. Ill definitely push to have you in the end game as you're very logical and TRYING. You deserve to live!
Those are my thoughts.
My order of thoughts: Either lynch NOMNOMNOM, and get enough votes on Rafk to allow gamerz to shoot Rafk and test him. Or, we decide between Zebi and Buranri. Jerub can largely help us solve the manders question (hero? A dead canadian? Buh?), and besides that... no ones going to lynch rafk based off my gut.
Vote for NOMNOMNOM Please.
Or POST AND THINK about zebi / buranri.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
What RafK said. But, I'm actually starting to think that bman is scum now for a different reason. I'm surprised I didn't think of it before, but during my omnomnom mediations, I realized that Terry Fox is dead. Which means unless this game takes place during those 22 years that Terry Fox was alive (and it would have to have taken place in the years that he became famous so that's an even smaller time range) then Terry Fox wouldn't really be able to be in the game.
My flavour has no indication that I was brought back from the dead, it simply states that I'm a symbol of courage and hope to Canadians. If you look at this game it is a mishmash of Canadian culture references, with loosely tied together flavour. Somehow an Igloo can move and protect someone, and maple syrup can also watch people. This is not a game where I think technical aspects can be taken of the highest regard.
I believe this is going to be the key portion of this sentence. Why he was being so cryptic, I don't know, but the role PM doesn't indicate I was brought back from the dead. However, it does mention that I am dead, but states I'm the hero because of the affect I have on Canadians everywhere, being a "symbol of courage and hope".
Clearly, based on the context, bman would have said he is dead if he were told this.
The conversation goes:
Syrenz:
"Hey Bman, you should be dead, unless the game is in the past or something"
Bman:
"Well, it doesn't say I was brought back to the dead or anything."
Sometime later
MandersHex:
"Yeah, I'm totally dead."
Simply, Bman's response makes no sense at all if he was told he was dead.
Now, we can see "symbol of courage and hope" is a pm quote, as both of their posts use it directly, in just that wording. But neither of them seem to make anything else that looks like a direct paraphrase, even under pressure, implying they can't give the rest of their role because it's related to their scumminess or abilities.
Another scummy thing that MandersHex has done since replacing: accuse both of our info roles of being scum.
Conclusion: I get bad feelings from Zebi. I believe his claim, just not that it's a town role. And, he hasn't done a whole lot of scumhunting either.
Hmm, this is starting to seem a pattern.
This is fence-sitting at best and indiscriminately wanting our power to die at worst.
Unvote
Vote: MandersHex
One thing though,
no matter who we lynch today, we at least should wait for Bunrari's responce from MMoD. It could help us out quite a bit in terms of actually knowing what his results mean.
Stormblind mentions Jerubal should investigate MandersHex tonight, but that isn't any help at all: the part they are lying about isn't going to be the town hero part--it's that town hero is a vanilla name.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Stormblind mentions Jerubal should investigate MandersHex tonight, but that isn't any help at all: the part they are lying about isn't going to be the town hero part--it's that town hero is a vanilla name.
... So, you're saying if her role comes back town hero, shes definitely a scum cause she lied about it all? Im trying to understand you here....
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Another scummy thing that MandersHex has done since replacing: accuse both of our info roles of being scum.
Most people have accused one or the other of being scummy throughout the game, so I'm not sure why it's super scummy when I do it.
Oh, wait, right, because you're trying to get me mislynched
This is fence-sitting at best and indiscriminately wanting our power to die at worst.
It's not fence-sitting at all. I state definitively what my stance on him is, so your attempt to smear me is noted.
One thing though,
no matter who we lynch today, we at least should wait for Bunrari's responce from MMoD. It could help us out quite a bit in terms of actually knowing what his results mean.
I agree with this completely. Hopefully he gets back to us today.
Stormblind mentions Jerubal should investigate MandersHex tonight, but that isn't any help at all: the part they are lying about isn't going to be the town hero part--it's that town hero is a vanilla name.
You realize this makes no sense, right? You state the issue is that you don't believe town hero is a vanilla name. What does it matter? Vanilla or hidden power role, I'm still town?
FTR, I am not a hidden power role. I am simply making a point.
FTR, I do get the name, not the role, i.e. I would be getting "Terry Fox" or something completely different, not "town hero." I can help solve the flavor crisis, but if the case hinges on the role itself, my investigation's not going to be a ton of use. IMHO all the junk about dead or not is completely a stretch, and I think I would die a little bit inside if we lynched based on that.
The case on MH so far isn't any different than the weak behavioral fluff which has been floating around so far, I'm still much happier lynching Nom.
FTR, I am also a fan of lynching anyone who posts with colored text. Because that's just inane.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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FTR, I do get the name, not the role, i.e. I would be getting "Terry Fox" or something completely different, not "town hero." I can help solve the flavor crisis, but if the case hinges on the role itself, my investigation's not going to be a ton of use. IMHO all the junk about dead or not is completely a stretch, and I think I would die a little bit inside if we lynched based on that.
The case on MH so far isn't any different than the weak behavioral fluff which has been floating around so far, I'm still much happier lynching Nom.
FTR, I am also a fan of lynching anyone who posts with colored text. Because that's just inane.
The case isn't about Terry Fox being dead or not right now, it's about the fact that bman did not imply any mention of death in his role pm and MH did. That being said I'll agree it's not the strongest case and you checking the rolename will make me feel better about her. Also I still have trouble with the fact that bman would falseclaim town hero instead of town vanilla in the first place.
unvote
but still
Quote from Nom »
Stormblind mentions Jerubal should investigate MandersHex tonight, but that isn't any help at all: the part they are lying about isn't going to be the town hero part--it's that town hero is a vanilla name.
yes, please clarify how MH being town hero but not vanilla makes her scum?
Waiting on Buranri to tell us if he is watcher or tracker.
... So, you're saying if her role comes back town hero, shes definitely a scum cause she lied about it all? Im trying to understand you here....
I'm saying that she's probably not lying about her role--she is almost certainly Terry Fox, Town Hero--so investigating her isn't going to help at all.
She isn't flaseclaiming her name/title, just her abilities.
And Hex, the reason it's scummy is that you were gunning for 2/3 of our info-gathering roles. One of the big sticking points is one which of them is lying, if either. So by saying both of them are scummy, you're sidestepping the point.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I'm saying that she's probably not lying about her role--she is almost certainly Terry Fox, Town Hero--so investigating her isn't going to help at all.
She isn't flaseclaiming her name/title, just her abilities.
Which makes you want to lynch her if that's true? Terry Fox, Town Hero would have to be town. I'm really missing what your saying here.
You got me. I'm actually the SK. I tried to kill Rafk night 1, and I was RB'd last night.
Here's why you should let me live:
You have a doc and an unkillable. That means I would have a very difficult time winning this game, regardless. So if I go with the town and kill who you want, my chances to win are almost zero.
And here's why MandersHex is scum:
I'm actually Murder, Serial Killer. I'm something not from Canada, since it's known for its low crime rate and being peaceful in general. More importantly, I was given a safe claim of Hockey, Town Vanilla.
This leads me to expect that either:
1. The mafia was given roles that are still non-scummy things from canada.
2. The mafia was given safe claimes and for some reason Bman didn't use his.
Since not using a safe claim is kind of stupid, I think that the mafia is probably things from Canada, like Terry Fox. This would also explain Jerubaal's role--it's specifically for hunting the SK.
It makes no sense to me that MandersHex would be given a title for vanilla that is different than something I was given a safe claim for--it's not much of a safe claim if only one of the vanillas has such a title.
So yeah. MandersHex is scum, so you should lynch him and let me act as a vig for you. I'll be more than happy to kill whoever you tell me to.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Well, I got an answer back from mmod. I am both a watcher
and a tracker.
I agree we shouldn't kill NA immediately. This also confirms (I think) Raf's unkillable, so we shouldn't try vigging him.
As to who we should vig... I'm not really sure.
Oh, and vote MH
Their are some very good points against her, a few of her posts really strike me as off (will quote them later), and she basically just seems to be defending herself with "the arguments are shaky and full of holes".
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We're in the middle of a massclaim.
Before you do anything else, please claim so we don't have to wait on you anymore.
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Definitely was worth a try.
Welcome to Canada MH
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Why did you ask this when everyone has already claimed?
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Because I was hoping he hadn't noticed we'd already claimed. Then there's a chance that he'll post something contradictory and mess up.
The odds are pretty low, since a mafia is probably going to look back at the thread before making a falseclaim, but I though it was worth trying.
Also, I'm not sure what to make of the fact he or she pointed out that we had already falseclaimed, rather than just post a claim.
Part of me thinks it's rather townie, for not trying to act like he or she hadn't noticed the trap, but part of me also thinks it's coming from a scummy mindset--searching out and linking to the exact post where bman claimed seems a bit unnatural for a townie, who would normally just post their role.
So it's a bit WIFOM, but I'm reading it more of a scum reaction than a town one.
Cool, just wondering. Makes sense now, actually.
I can't decide whether you're onto something here, or way off track. It does seem weird she wouldn't just re post her role, but on the other hand if she read the entire thread she likely would know the general area bman claimed.
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
I have been reading, off and on, and did see that bman had already claimed. It is not hard at all to find a post if you know who posted it, so rather than pull up my role PM (since I always have it open when posting a claim) I located that post and linked it to you.
And, to anyone who doesn't know and wants to, I am a female irl It doesn't bother me too much when people put he since I am in a man's world here, heh.
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N1, I target lrd. My title is Watcher, so if I understand this correctly it means I see whoever targets the person I target, and with my role they both become sticky. In the morning both lrd and RafK were sticky. I assumed that lrd had targeted RafK, which made more sense after his doc claim.
But what if I had this backwards? Lrd self protected, and Raf tried to kill lrd,
thus making them both sticky.
Of course the flaw in this is that RafK claimed nk-immune, and is willing to have Gamerz
test it. Unless... Is nk-immune a scum ability? Come to think of it I did have that in manipulator...
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
1.lrd couldn't actually self-protect iirc
2.you said your ability is tracker
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Did he say he couldn't self protect?
I thought my ability was tracker, in spite of my title being watcher, because I thought lrd had targeted Raf. That's my point though - what if I had that backwards?
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
You also said that SB didn't do anything last night. This keeps confusing me.
What's the result you get back? That you're target did nothing, no one targeted your target, what does it say (without quoting)?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
My results don't say "X targeted Y". They say " X and Y are now sticky"
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
My results don't say "X targeted Y". They say " X and Y are now sticky"
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
I agree. I don't see the point of having a double watcher and then a silly gimmick sticky watcher.. I also don't think MMoD would straight up lie about his ability.
I honestly don't know who to be voting for right now. I mean, the no lynch idea got shot down pretty heavily, I haven't seen anything astoundingly scummy from Nom, who seems to be the favored lynch, and the Buranri thing is making my head hurt. I see a reason to lynch him because as I said before, I don't see the point of two fundamentally different watchers in a single mini.
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watchers or trackers?
This whole business really is making me confused.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
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2. StormBlind - Actively scum-hunting. I don't think it's a point against him that he claimed "Townie". Leaning town.
Also, please don't decide to kill me because bman lurked. You know I don't
3. jerubbaal - Seems pretty town to me, although I would prefer if he'd post more often
5. Gamerz - Also actively scumhunting and seems town.
6. Zebi - Something feels off on him. Planning to do a PBPA on him. Putting him neutral.
7. Nom_Anor - /barning Gamerz and Stormblind on him. He's played scummy as hell this game.
8. RafaelK - Pretty sure he's town, same boat as jerubbaal on the posting.
9. Buranri - Another I'm planning to do a PBPA on. Also neutral.
10. MandersHex - obv town
11. shibui - PBPA planned as well. Neutral
12. Syrenz - This is textbook Syrenz town play imo.
First, this...
Second, it does indeed say Town Hero, but I have no abilities. I have a different title because I'm dead, people look up to me, and it's kind of a memorial type thing.
Today is most definitely the best day to test his ability as I can't see a downfall now, but could see it later.
This is the last straw for me. This attempt to trap a replacement simply due to the fact that I have a different role name (when RafK's already pointed out this has happened in games past) feels like scum trying to really push a mislynch.
Vote: Nom_Anor
I really believe this is our best step forward.
I don't know what the NK immune player's alignment was in Manipulator, but lrd was a town NK immune character in L4D mafia.
It gives me pause that you didn't think to ask MMOD for clarification since you knew that they (and we now) were confused by it and it was slightly distracting from scum-hunting.
Seconded.
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Please tell me how what I did could possibly be scum looking to get a mislynch on you. Setting a trap for someone you think is scum is just good logic--especially when it's a trap that only scum are going to fall into.
This is not a trap that only scum could fall into. I have seen examples of townies who lie about their role (Seppel and red_0mega in JW comes to mind right away), so it is possible that a townie could fall for that trap as well.
Personally, I see no reason for a townie to ever lie, but that's neither here nor there.
However, this latest attempt to get bman (and now myself) lynched was just incredibly opportunistic and over the top, what with the enormous text. And, like I said, just the latest of the scummy things you've done in this game.
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Does it specifically say you have that different title because you are dead?
It's strange that bman wouldn't just say that he actually was dead over here. From the fact that he said "it simply states" it sounds like there's no mention of death at all. Which makes me wonder if you just made that up.
I actually think that thing NA did is indicative of him being town. The attempt to trap a replacement could only possibily succeed if you were scum. If NA is scum he knows bman was telling the truth about being Terry Fox, Town Hero and therefore knows that you will say that as well meaning he can't possibily trap you. However, if you are scum it's possible that bman lied about his role and you wouldn't have seen what he said and would come up with a falseclaim that would contradict what bman had said. Only possible benefit from that post is for town.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Unvote, Vote MandersHex
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Really Syrenz? Not even going to let me respond?
Yes and no. Let's review bman's post again:
I believe this is going to be the key portion of this sentence. Why he was being so cryptic, I don't know, but the role PM doesn't indicate I was brought back from the dead. However, it does mention that I am dead, but states I'm the hero because of the affect I have on Canadians everywhere, being a "symbol of courage and hope".
Again, I can't speak for why he did what he did. All I can do is state the truth, which is what you're getting.
The fact that I've already pointed out how it could mean he is scum makes this a null point in this situation, imo. The rest of his play is what lead me to believe he is scum.
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Starts with the noob card very early.
Overly defensive to being at the top of someone's list.
This stuck out from D1:
Seriously? You spent some time posting you thought he was scum and was the right lynch for the day, and you hadn't even voted? Your reasoning being you confused this game with another?
The only reason I'm slightly buying it is because I can think of no other excuse for it. Even scum wouldn't not vote someone after stating they think they're scum. But, it's horrible play.
I just want to point out that this, too, seemed to me to say that you targeted RafK to cause the stickiness, and I don't understand how you don't see it yourself.
Ok, early in the game, you said that revealing your name would probably out your role. How? No one ever asked you to explain this, but when I think Maple Syrup, I don't think Watcher.
If you are telling the truth about your role, how could you not see that?
You claim to have targeted lrd and it results in lrd and RafK being sticky. How is your first thought not "Wow, the syrup must have transferred onto RafK because lrd targeted him last night?"
What happened here?
You were sure you were going to target shibui. People told you to target someone scummy.
So you pick a player who seems town? Really? This makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
On top of these things, he's done very little relevant scum-hunting and has done a lot of /barning of people. I would also support a Buranri lynch.
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See, the thing about your claim is this. You could have claimed "Eh" eons ago, and it wouldn't have told us (a) that you were a tracker or (b) that we had to say "Eh" for you to be able to track us.
In fact, imo, this is the situation with most of the claims we have. Not all, but most.
Orly? o.O You haven't provided much original content this game and what you have is poor.
This backs up his claim pretty well.
But, wait! You've been hinting for quite some time that your role was pretty closely tied to Buranri's, even going so far as to say that part of your role makes you believe he's lying!
What happened?
He's definitely left plenty of clues to show that his claim is probably true. I just don't think it's a guarantee that he is town.
I find it hard to believe you didn't realize that by telling us what we needed to do for your ability to work, you would be able to assure that we all did it.
Claim lines up with all the hints he's left, but I still don't like him.
I do. Why did you choose Gamerz N1?
I don't like this at all, either.
If anyone's thinking that no lynch may be good for the town based on how well it worked in Indiana Jones mafia, take a moment to go back and look at the case Axelrod made for a no lynch. He literally had to show that there was absolutely no possible drawback from it for us to even consider it.
For you to propose something as radical as a no lynch without a phenomenal case for it bothers me greatly. I have to /barn SB and say that it's lazy.
Conclusion: I get bad feelings from Zebi. I believe his claim, just not that it's a town role. And, he hasn't done a whole lot of scumhunting either.
Hmm, this is starting to seem a pattern.
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Ok, I looked over Shibui's posts again, and there's not really anything there. He said many times his role name did not match his ability (which it doesn't) and he's been asking some good questions of plenty of people. He appears town for the most part.
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My thoughts have not changed, and I'm not sure what the hold up is - oh wait, in order to lynch Nom and vig RafK it requires the entirety of the town and scum to be on the same page.
Firstly, I will ask Nom to vote for RafK so I may unvote, vote Nom and Gamerz can still shoot.
Secondly, Zebi's failure to act on literally anything continues to paint him in a bad light.
Syrenz's case is a stretch IMO. It'd be impossible to prove that MH actually made a slip since bman is fairly tight lipped in general and MH is not.
He said Eh.
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Those are my thoughts.
My order of thoughts: Either lynch NOMNOMNOM, and get enough votes on Rafk to allow gamerz to shoot Rafk and test him. Or, we decide between Zebi and Buranri. Jerub can largely help us solve the manders question (hero? A dead canadian? Buh?), and besides that... no ones going to lynch rafk based off my gut.
Vote for NOMNOMNOM Please.
Or POST AND THINK about zebi / buranri.
Here's my current thoughts, delivered, as standard, via player list.
Those are my thoughts.
My order of thoughts: Either lynch NOMNOMNOM, and get enough votes on Rafk to allow gamerz to shoot Rafk and test him. Or, we decide between Zebi and Buranri. Jerub can largely help us solve the manders question (hero? A dead canadian? Buh?), and besides that... no ones going to lynch rafk based off my gut.
Vote for NOMNOMNOM Please.
Or POST AND THINK about zebi / buranri.
Clearly, based on the context, bman would have said he is dead if he were told this.
The conversation goes:
Syrenz:
"Hey Bman, you should be dead, unless the game is in the past or something"
Bman:
"Well, it doesn't say I was brought back to the dead or anything."
Sometime later
MandersHex:
"Yeah, I'm totally dead."
Simply, Bman's response makes no sense at all if he was told he was dead.
Now, we can see "symbol of courage and hope" is a pm quote, as both of their posts use it directly, in just that wording. But neither of them seem to make anything else that looks like a direct paraphrase, even under pressure, implying they can't give the rest of their role because it's related to their scumminess or abilities.
Another scummy thing that MandersHex has done since replacing: accuse both of our info roles of being scum.
This is fence-sitting at best and indiscriminately wanting our power to die at worst.
Unvote
Vote: MandersHex
One thing though,
no matter who we lynch today, we at least should wait for Bunrari's responce from MMoD. It could help us out quite a bit in terms of actually knowing what his results mean.
Stormblind mentions Jerubal should investigate MandersHex tonight, but that isn't any help at all: the part they are lying about isn't going to be the town hero part--it's that town hero is a vanilla name.
... So, you're saying if her role comes back town hero, shes definitely a scum cause she lied about it all? Im trying to understand you here....
Most people have accused one or the other of being scummy throughout the game, so I'm not sure why it's super scummy when I do it.
Oh, wait, right, because you're trying to get me mislynched
It's not fence-sitting at all. I state definitively what my stance on him is, so your attempt to smear me is noted.
I agree with this completely. Hopefully he gets back to us today.
You realize this makes no sense, right? You state the issue is that you don't believe town hero is a vanilla name. What does it matter? Vanilla or hidden power role, I'm still town?
FTR, I am not a hidden power role. I am simply making a point.
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The case on MH so far isn't any different than the weak behavioral fluff which has been floating around so far, I'm still much happier lynching Nom.
FTR, I am also a fan of lynching anyone who posts with colored text. Because that's just inane.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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The case isn't about Terry Fox being dead or not right now, it's about the fact that bman did not imply any mention of death in his role pm and MH did. That being said I'll agree it's not the strongest case and you checking the rolename will make me feel better about her. Also I still have trouble with the fact that bman would falseclaim town hero instead of town vanilla in the first place.
unvote
but still
yes, please clarify how MH being town hero but not vanilla makes her scum?
Waiting on Buranri to tell us if he is watcher or tracker.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I'm saying that she's probably not lying about her role--she is almost certainly Terry Fox, Town Hero--so investigating her isn't going to help at all.
She isn't flaseclaiming her name/title, just her abilities.
And Hex, the reason it's scummy is that you were gunning for 2/3 of our info-gathering roles. One of the big sticking points is one which of them is lying, if either. So by saying both of them are scummy, you're sidestepping the point.
Which makes you want to lynch her if that's true? Terry Fox, Town Hero would have to be town. I'm really missing what your saying here.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I dont see what there is to miss. He's scum, and he just made a huge slip up. I cant believe more people dont see how obvious this is.
Still Waiting on response from mmod.
Also, vote count please?
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Maybe, but I've been getting a town gut feeling on him so I'll let him respond. Nom, respond?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
You got me. I'm actually the SK. I tried to kill Rafk night 1, and I was RB'd last night.
Here's why you should let me live:
You have a doc and an unkillable. That means I would have a very difficult time winning this game, regardless. So if I go with the town and kill who you want, my chances to win are almost zero.
And here's why MandersHex is scum:
I'm actually Murder, Serial Killer. I'm something not from Canada, since it's known for its low crime rate and being peaceful in general. More importantly, I was given a safe claim of Hockey, Town Vanilla.
This leads me to expect that either:
1. The mafia was given roles that are still non-scummy things from canada.
2. The mafia was given safe claimes and for some reason Bman didn't use his.
Since not using a safe claim is kind of stupid, I think that the mafia is probably things from Canada, like Terry Fox. This would also explain Jerubaal's role--it's specifically for hunting the SK.
It makes no sense to me that MandersHex would be given a title for vanilla that is different than something I was given a safe claim for--it's not much of a safe claim if only one of the vanillas has such a title.
So yeah. MandersHex is scum, so you should lynch him and let me act as a vig for you. I'll be more than happy to kill whoever you tell me to.
It's not much better if I'm the only town vanilla, which is what I am if MH is scum.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Can we not quicklynch him until we think everything through first please? kthx
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Fortunately for me, I am not. Seriously, just because you have a false claim doesn't guarantee that mafia do, so your case is full of holes.
Plus, as Syrenz said, if I am lying, that would make him the only vanilla town. That's hard to swallow to me.
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Although not completely out of the question. I do find making one vanilla, town vanilla and the other one town hero to be really strange.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
[2/6] Rafk - Gamerz, Buranri
[1/6] MandersHex - Nom_Anor
[1/6] Nom_Anor - shibui
Please bold your votes.
Corrections welcome
and a tracker.
I agree we shouldn't kill NA immediately. This also confirms (I think) Raf's unkillable, so we shouldn't try vigging him.
As to who we should vig... I'm not really sure.
Oh, and vote MH
Their are some very good points against her, a few of her posts really strike me as off (will quote them later), and she basically just seems to be defending herself with "the arguments are shaky and full of holes".
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24