claytonthegreat - Homunculus the Alchemic Being - Vanilla
Id Ego - Magician of Faith - Vanilla
The Rest
red_0mega - Old Vindictive Magician - Vanilla
Alpha Werewolf - Harpie Lady - Vanilla
Archmage Eternal - Dark Magician - Vanilla
Apokalypse_Kid - Reflect Bounder - "Mirror"
While I haven't been jazzed about TACKY's play all game, I doubt that there's a gambit running with it. He's handicapping himself tremendously if he's an SK, and we do have reasonable explanations for the kills which happened if you consider his claimed actions. I am not willing to consider a scum with double extra kills as a possibility, it's just unreal overpowered. I was writing a game a while back which had a potential double-extra-killing scum role in it, and it just made the numbers hideous. If he's a limited kill SK, we can deal with him whenever, he's not a huge threat ATM.
I was hoping for a more role-based case, but it doesn't really look like there's one to be had. I have to look over the behavioral discussion lately and decide if I still really want to lynch clay. At the very least, lynching clay gives us Id Ego's alignment, either way, so that's a strong potential benefit to consider.
Regardless, I continue to dislike the RO wagon, partially because I do happen to completely agree on the issue of AE. He's just been posting so minimally there's really not much of a behavioral case to make on him (which maybe is a real point, but it's a weak one).
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Just letting you all know that I will be vacationing for the next two days, so posting will be limited/not there at all.
In the meantime, I would prefer to pursue some of the tied together people rather than some of the individuals. I'm willing to listen to arguments and canbe swayed, but if the connected people are scum, we'll pretty much have the game in hand right there. There's a good chance that's the case and I think it's an advantage we should exploit. They are either bot scum and we win or they are both town and we gain a confirmed townie, further narrowing our list.
Lastly, on the issue of me being scum/SK/whatever running a gambit, all you have to do is look at my card in the yard and how it's not anymore. Scum wouldn't be given extra kills, as jerub said, and a two-shot SK would be too underpowered. I see the argument, but it should be obvious that the chances of me=scum is very minimal. And I for one know I'm not.
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Scumbuddy speculation is pretty poor when we don't even have a dead scum yet. And really, I'm not seeing TACKY at all.
AE is an enigma to me. He's doing the whole white whale thing on me but I can't tell if it is genuine tunnel vision or if it's scum trying to go along to get along by focusing solely on his "nemesis." Half his posts are about me. Doesn't really make sense.
At no point did I say "TACKY isn't town because he killed tchoob." In fact, I have said the opposite - that I don't think he should be pursued. That's because the flavor and his target point strongly toward him being a vig. I didn't like the rumblings of suspicion on TACKY, thought they might come to something, and so I wanted to nip it in the bud.
Coaches Tacky here. Something they had to get straight after talking about it at night.
Yup, he's right. I killed tchoob. With the Fuhma Shuriken. I'm a 2-shot vig and have one shot left.
Now he acknowledges. Not after Zind brings it up but later after AI says something.
This might be a better situation anyway, because I don't want to waste the shots, but I have no idea who's scummy or not. I tried tchoob cause I thought he was the weakest link on the ZDS wagon atm and other townies had expressed suspicion on him.
Lol, doesn't want to waste the shots? Really? And you shoot night 1? His reasoning for tchoob is all wrong. First he was gun ho on Anak but doesn't shoot him and turns around and puts the kill on the town with "expressed suspicion". Look at the ending vote count.
I'm not saying it can't be a town ability, but it is mainly a scum ability.
Lemme ask you a question. Are there any other side effects to rbing a player, ie they gain some sort of protection or extra ability?
I love this. Looking back now you can see him trying to help gleng out of his hole he dug. Trying to "lead the witness" if you will.
The likelyhood of town RB hitting a scum with actions, such as the NK, are minimal, whereas they are much more likely to hit helpful town actions. This is pure speculation, but if you were town with this role, they would probably be a more beneficial reason to rb someone. Like, even though they got blocked, there is something to gain rather than just loseloselose.
I love this gem. Bussing his buddy and using the thought process he should have used in holding onto his "limited" shots. Why should he follow this but not you Tac?
No. It switches roles. And only of players of the same alignment. So your plan would not work because mafia and neutral are not of the same alignment. TACKY, are you a perma-vig? Or are you out of shots? If you are out, I would like to switch you. Whoever becomes the vig is confirmed town, but they won't get to use any shots that the town might not like.
What happened to this? Notice that Zind worked on swaying the action away from Tacky. Anak why did you so easily accept it? "I think this is a great idea, and I fully support this plan. I hope everyone else does too because that is what I am doing tonight" Using it on two unconfirmed we're in the boat we're in now, not sure if they're town or scum. On a somewhat confirmed player the player that is switch would then become confirmed.
Found in the Welcome to Mafia thread, in the Behaviorial Analysis: Chapter Two scum tells section.
The only thing that clears them is AI, although he doesn't actually know their alignment. There is a small chance they are scum, but seems unlikely.
I'm interested in the Id Ego-Clayton argument, but I don't like the way Infinis puts it. "Easier"? Why are you looking for the easy solution? I also don't like the word assume. There are just things that bother me with Infinis's last post.
What are you interested in?
Now this scum gambit isn't new, its been brought up before. Pick apart this post and discuss tacky. vote tacky
I also have the feeling AK is the SK and we should look into that tomorrow.
Just getting ready to leave, saw the case on me, glanced it over and here's what I have to say in a nutshell.
The case is built around me being linked to Zind when I'm not. Zind tried to link to me (guessing my vigness) but I never linked to him. Anywhere. Ever. Scum will try to link to a lot of people in the eventual case they are caught, it causes confusion within the town. I don't know how Zind knew I was a vig, probably an investigative role for the scum somewhere, but I can't be held responsible for what Zind did.
Please consolidate the main points against me and I'll try and answer tomorrow at the earliest. Night probably.
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That case makes some sense. But I'm wondering about something else - why the hell did scum skip their NK?
I've gone over this before, in my r_0 case. But I'm thinking back on it, and, well, there is a wealth of good targets for them:
-Ank, who can confirm townies and condemn the SK/a final scum
-Any of the remaining masons, who are very dangerous targets for Ank
-TACKY, a confirmed two-shot-vig
-Any other cleared person
If scum don't act now, they lose due to sheer numbers. So why didn't they kill any of these people?
Well, it's obvious. One of these people is scum. There's possibly a second scum (21 players with 5 scum and 1 SK doesn't sound farfetched to me).
The question is only which of the are scum.
I have a couple theories on this:
-One of the masons is scum. Pushed by the power of a three-mason-group, which we should look into.
-TACKY is scum. AE went over this, and the case isn't half bad.
I'll have to think about this, but I still think r_0 is the lynch.
That case makes some sense. But I'm wondering about something else - why the hell did scum skip their NK?
Thats is the question. I'm not going to rack my brain over it and get distracted though. Could be a case of, use an ability or NK.
Well, it's obvious. One of these people is scum. There's possibly a second scum (21 players with 5 scum and 1 SK doesn't sound farfetched to me).
The question is only which of the are scum.
I have a couple theories on this:
-One of the masons is scum. Pushed by the power of a three-mason-group, which we should look into.
-TACKY is scum. AE went over this, and the case isn't half bad.
I'll have to think about this, but I still think r_0 is the lynch.
Well its obvious? But why didn't they NK? Use of ability?
Remember, the masons alignment are linked because they got switched with my ability N1. It is impossible for one of the remaining two to be scum, either they both are or they are both town.
the case on tacky is good, all though I still am curious with the circumstances of R_O being cleared by scum. The problem that I have with pinning SK down as the SK is based mostly off the assumption that there is a SK and that AK's abilities fit that pretty well.
@Tacky, So your saying that Zin went out of his way that last couple weeks to implicate you as his scum buddy, especially when zin was doing a pretty good job looking town and in my personal opinion didn't need that. it's a weak defence.
Despite a preponderance of behavioral foibles, TACKY has claimed a number of kills which would be difficult to explain coming from a scum/neutral source (i.e. nights when 3 people died, he claimed a kill). Limited shot SK is a role which has been seen lately, but I think the odds of TACKY claiming limited shot if he wasn't restricted to such are practically none.
Weird potential scenario - scum didn't kill last night, and with the roles claimed, we have no indication of any active protective roles in the town. IMHO it's possible that scum could not kill during a night in order to save a kill for another night, but that's hugely speculative. This is also maybe worth considering in evaluating TACKY's "killing" ability.
Or maybe it just got forgotten. It's terribad play, but it does happen. Dunno which is really more likely.
The only real person that I'm weirded out is still alive is Anak. His role is unreal powerful for the town, even as an every-other night ability. The rest are not so surprising.
Because I'm wondering, do we have any clue whatsoever why Zind died?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Wait... can't masons not tell their alignment in game? how do we really know that these 2 are masons? logically, if masons can't say that they are masons, they would have to lie in their claim. So, what if theses 2 are scum that are claiming mason after seeing the death of one mason? the other masons wouldn't be able to oust them without giving away their role, which would result in modkill would it not? does anyone know exactly how this works?
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Wait... can't masons not tell their alignment in game? how do we really know that these 2 are masons? logically, if masons can't say that they are masons, they would have to lie in their claim. So, what if theses 2 are scum that are claiming mason after seeing the death of one mason? the other masons wouldn't be able to oust them without giving away their role, which would result in modkill would it not? does anyone know exactly how this works?
OK what two are we talking about again? Masons know their alignment. Sometimes they're mod confirmed other times they're not.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
@Tacky, So your saying that Zin went out of his way that last couple weeks to implicate you as his scum buddy, especially when zin was doing a pretty good job looking town and in my personal opinion didn't need that. it's a weak defence.
I'm not saying the he did it on purpose, maybe by accident, but look at the facts here. He was vanilla scum, so he obviously had no idea, on his own, what I did the previous night. So he obviously had ulterior motives by bringing that up.
My thinking is that there is an investigative role for the scum, they watched me, Zind brought it up to seem more town/implicate me later.
You said it yourself, he was doing a great job looking town and had everyone convinced, so at the time him scumbuddying me went unnoticed as he seemed town. Just in case he ever dies, all the sudden the town is shaken with him scum and he creates suspicion on townies as a result.
It's not that he didn't need to implicate me. He wanted to. Not exactly me, but implicate a townie. It's a way for scum to continue a WIFOM game post-mortem. Another way to cast suspicion on townies.
This is all beside the point though. My main point is that while scum Zind may have tried to link to me on a few occasions, I never once linked myself to him. Scumbuddy links are usually mutual. I had nearly nothing to do with him, other than asking about his investigative results.
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This is all beside the point though. My main point is that while scum Zind may have tried to link to me on a few occasions, I never once linked myself to him. Scumbuddy links are usually mutual. I had nearly nothing to do with him, other than asking about his investigative results.
So?
Ok hopefully discussion picks up coming out of the weekend.
TheArtistCurrentlyKnownAs power
jerubbaal power
Infinis power
Anaklusmos761 power
Apokalypse_Kid power
claytonthegreat new mason?
Id Ego new mason?
Alpha Werewolf
archmage Eternal
red 0mega
So if any of the "powers" are lying I'd say Tacky and/or Anak. Along with AK being the SK.
If not you have the vanillas to choose from.
Choices look to be killing one of the new masons for confirmation. Looking at the powers. Mafia would kill off power roles so, Tacky could still be alive due to lose of vig. Anak is still alive because... IDK. Then the vanillas. Do we take the powers word for it and lynch down the list of vanillas thinking the scum are hiding behind the claim?
points against- Tacky. Thought up the word tool to confirm, something they could have talked about durring the night.
Anak. Used his power last night so couldn't NK.
Also, since Zindabad was lying, why didn't anyone counter him when he said he was the reason there was no kill?
Didn't like this quote either. Why would someone counter? At this point we're only thinking SK. Scum might be getting nervous in thinking there is some protective role still out there and want to know about it.
Plus Anak is looking to be flailing a bit today. this,
@Alpha I want to hear your nameclaim and why you didn't originally nameclaim while everyone else was
Alphas reply,
That list wasn't updated after I nameclaimed. In fact, I think I nameclaimed a few posts after it was posted. I'll link you to the post:
Then this,
Son of a...
I swear there isn't anything else I forgot now. Yeah, your card is in the graveyard.
That said, r_0 is scum. Should have voted him before.
Vote red_0mega
Followed by jerubbaal saying
Stop voting recklessly, all, there is claiming to be done.
And then Alpha,
Ank, you're missing an awful lot of stuff. I recall Id saying that he switched (he said that he is now the Magician of Faith). I'll dig it up for you, since you don't seem to be paying too much attention:
Additionally, I'm convinced that r_0 is scum, but there's no need to lynch him just yet. Just like yesterday, there's stuff to do before the lynch - he'll wait. So guys, stop voting!
Fllowed by Anak,
Well that makes an even greater case for r_0 being scum. Also, remember this is my first nonbasic game, so I'm trying to keep track of everything, but clearly that isn't going so well.
Besides r_0's fullclaim, what is left to do today?
Anak looks to be really interested in getting to night. unvote
I think I'll be heading where I started this game off and voting Anak.
Originally Posted by Id_Ego
Actually, no you didn't have AsianInvasion to confirm you, she was dead before you two claimed to be masons, also, how was Jerub mod confirmed?
initially Me = King's Knight, Asian = Queen's Knight, Jeru = Jack's Knight
We were switched I'm now Jack's Knight and he is King's Knight.
Why do you think I crossed off jeru and asian in my case against TACKY? Because they are mod confirmed to me as town.
We switched roles, so I can confirm Anak's ability. What does this bear on his alignment? Role switching seems like a weak cop variant, ie knowing one we know the other. Highly doubt he's scum. I disagree with jeru about TACKY but we both agree there are better lynches today.
Scum cannot kill either of us without the cooperation of SK and/or vig. It auto confirms the other player. I can't see the SK and scum both submitting No kill last night. Which is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
initially Me = King's Knight, Asian = Queen's Knight, Jeru = Jack's Knight
We were switched I'm now Jack's Knight and he is King's Knight.
Why do you think I crossed off jeru and asian in my case against TACKY? Because they are mod confirmed to me as town.
We switched roles, so I can confirm Anak's ability. What does this bear on his alignment? Role switching seems like a weak cop variant, ie knowing one we know the other. Highly doubt he's scum. I disagree with jeru about TACKY but we both agree there are better lynches today.
Scum cannot kill either of us without the cooperation of SK and/or vig. It auto confirms the other player. I can't see the SK and scum both submitting No kill last night. Which is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around.
AH i see now. I wasn't thinking about names. i see now how you are confirmed
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TACKY isn't scum. His claimed card, Strike Ninja, is not a fiend type monster. This is important because all three scum so far have been fiend type monsters.
Caius the Shadow Monarch
Terrorking Archfiend
Summoned Skull
But what if he is false-claiming? Well, his card, Fuhma Shuriken has shown up in the graveyard both times there were NK's. If you google a picture of Fuhma Shuriken, on the card art there is Strike Ninja throwing the Shuriken. So the likelyhood of him falseclaiming is very small.
As for people that aren't nearly confirmed, why isn't r_0 scum? Zindabad was the one who cleared him, Zindabad was scum. Doesn't that mean we should be looking heavily into the person the scum cleared?
How much gaming the mod do we want to do? Do we have two neutrals?
I wonder, the there seems to be a pattern among the scum as previously stated.
Homunculus the Alchemical Being seems like a JoAT me and that's the reason there wasnt a kill last night. Scum submit no NK for ability immunity? And Joat didnt have Kill. Lynching clay confirms his partner and forces scum into making a tough choice. Kill a mason to confirm the other (as if there is doubt, but I digress) or kill ID to lessen number of confirmed townies.
I'd say whoever Asian was pushing as scum is probably town and the scum were trying to setup mislynch.
Lynching down the list of vanillas seems doable, but I'd rather have something more substantial to lynch off of.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
How much gaming the mod do we want to do? Do we have two neutrals?
I wonder, the there seems to be a pattern among the scum as previously stated.
Homunculus the Alchemical Being seems like a JoAT me and that's the reason there wasnt a kill last night. Scum submit no NK for ability immunity? And Joat didnt have Kill. Lynching clay confirms his partner and forces scum into making a tough choice. Kill a mason to confirm the other (as if there is doubt, but I digress) or kill ID to lessen number of confirmed townies.
I'd say whoever Asian was pushing as scum is probably town and the scum were trying to setup mislynch.
Lynching down the list of vanillas seems doable, but I'd rather have something more substantial to lynch off of.
I know it's rather hardcore mod gaming, but it seems to hold true, so why not use it.
Also, I was wondering about a JoaT role as well. A possibility I was thinking was that one of their abilities could stop all NK's for one night, vig and SK included. That way it wouldn't be too broken, and it accounts for the lack of an apparent SK as well. It seems more plausible than the scum submitting a night action so they don't get a kill. They could also have the one time Daykill, which would explain that too.
IMHO lynching the unknown vanillas is probably the way to go. If we find a scum in there, it does pretty much confirm both clayton and id ego, so the upside is pretty high.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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IMHO lynching the unknown vanillas is probably the way to go. If we find a scum in there, it does pretty much confirm both clayton and id ego, so the upside is pretty high.
AE is my vote among the vanillas by a mile.
Or we could lynch one of clay/Id and find out immediately, confirming the other or condemning him.
If anyone has an actual case against me other than a comment made by scum, let them bring it. Otherwise, I would prefer that the discussion about lynching me be dropped, and some serious pressure be applied elsewhere (such as to Archmage Eternal).
If anyone has an actual case against me other than a comment made by scum, let them bring it. Otherwise, I would prefer that the discussion about lynching me be dropped, and some serious pressure be applied elsewhere (such as to Archmage Eternal).
Wait, what? So you are calling Alpha and Anak and anyone else who agrees scum? Then you call AE scum just to top it off. This is, like, a misrep on the entire town. You are a good play today IMO, with Zind 'confirming' you and whatnot.
Lastly, you are guilty of your own accusations here. You rail against other people for calling you scummy without a case, yet you do the same against AE, calling for his lynch with no evidence. Well, maybe not his lynch but 'serious pressure'. This all sounds like deflecting.
FoS Red_0mega
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Wait, what? So you are calling Alpha and Anak and anyone else who agrees scum? Then you call AE scum just to top it off. This is, like, a misrep on the entire town. You are a good play today IMO, with Zind 'confirming' you and whatnot.
No, apparently, you misunderstood. The part I bolded is precisely what I meant when I said "a comment made by scum". I meant that I have no idea why you would want to lynch me based on an off-hand comment made by lying scum. Seriously, this "case" against me is more rediulous than AsianInvasion's charge that I must be a Serial Killer because I am Old Vindictive Magician.
As far as my stance on Archmage Eternal is concerned:
Is it hypocritical? Perhaps.
Do I care? Not particularly.
You want to call me out for it, fine, but this entire town has been incredibly lazy, largely playing right into the scum's hands.
I intended to analyze his posts this morning, started looking over them, and realized it was not going to work. I am, honestly, not very good at making analyses, and Archmage Eternal is well known for (and seems proud of) his "unorthodox" playstyle. I am not saying that there is nothing their, just that I doubt I will be able to make it stick. Particularly when all of you seem so determined to rely on flavor, mod-gaming, and random statements made by scum rather than behavioral analysis anyway.
No, apparently, you misunderstood. The part I bolded is precisely what I meant when I said "a comment made by scum". I meant that I have no idea why you would want to lynch me based on an off-hand comment made by lying scum. Seriously, this "case" against me is more rediulous than AsianInvasion's charge that I must be a Serial Killer because I am Old Vindictive Magician.
As far as my stance on Archmage Eternal is concerned:
Is it hypocritical? Perhaps.
Do I care? Not particularly.
You want to call me out for it, fine, but this entire town has been incredibly lazy, largely playing right into the scum's hands.
I intended to analyze his posts this morning, started looking over them, and realized it was not going to work. I am, honestly, not very good at making analyses, and Archmage Eternal is well known for (and seems proud of) his "unorthodox" playstyle. I am not saying that there is nothing their, just that I doubt I will be able to make it stick. Particularly when all of you seem so determined to rely on flavor, mod-gaming, and random statements made by scum rather than behavioral analysis anyway.
But see, "This comment from scum, a lying scum..." was a comment that confirmed your towniness. You see where the problem lies. Sometimes, when a scum has an idea that they might get caught, they will do that, in an attempt to drag a townie down with them.
But Zindabad had no inclination that he was going to die soon. To him, he had the town fooled, going so far as to say he did not expect to be killed. What does that mean for you? It means that his comment towards you was NOT a last ditch attempt to bring someone else down. Frankly, I have no idea why he would say that about a town.
Also, the biggest problem with you, is that he confirmed you with his tracking ability. Which you were cool with at the time, but now we know he was lying about being a tracker. So you, being the person he "tracked" to confirm, write it off as just some comment.
Which helps your case of being scum. You are trying to downplay Zind's confirmation of you constantly, always referring to it as some comment. It's much more than just some comment regardless of your alignment, but only a scum would try to downplay the importance of it in order to live. And now, in your last post, you start trying to deflect onto anyone who's suspicious of you, or AE because hey he was kinda scummy right?
If anyone has an actual case against me other than a comment made by scum, let them bring it. Otherwise, I would prefer that the discussion about lynching me be dropped, and some serious pressure be applied elsewhere (such as to Archmage Eternal).
I love this. Don't go after me go after AE. You want to see a case against you but have no intention of brining one against me. You want the town to do that for you. Very scummy of you. Skimming through your posts I don't see much scum hunting either. Just found your case on me. I'm scum, your sure of it.
Also, the biggest problem with you, is that he confirmed you with his tracking ability.
This can be made even more so with Tacky. But no one wants to pursue that. vote red Omega
As far as I'm concerned I want to see RO, Tacky, and AK dead.
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I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I really have no thoughts. I haven't seen anything really interesting happen since the case on R_O. I'm happy to be sitting with my vote on R_O rather than you honestly. I think that this day has dragged on with nothing happening, so hopefully the lynch and or night actions will provide a more important tomorrow. I think that we have a scummy vanilla with R_O, so I think that we should proceed with that lynch and see what happens.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I think that's as good a plan as any. I've been up in the air between R_0 and AE for a while now, and I'd rather go with R_0 simply based off of the scummy confirmation.
Vote Red_0mega
Garwsh, that's becoming a strange new habit.
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Sorry, finals week.
I'll give a current thought analysis on the game.
archmage Eternal- I still don't like his jump claim from nowhere... but overall, seems town
red 0mega- Possible SK, we will see tonight
TheArtistCurrentlyKnownAs- Confirmed? I'd like to think so
jerubbaal- Confirmed mason
Alpha Werewolf- Lurky, seems town though (YES I'M BEING HYPOCRTICIAL!)
Infinis- Confirmed mason
claytonthegreat- switched with me
Anaklusmos761- confirmed via switch power
Id Ego- ME! can't say much more.
Apokalypse_Kid (replacing bilbroxian)- "mirror" ability. since tacky targeted jobo direclty, we still have no idea what this power DOES. we do know it exsists, and it is debatable as to whether or not it is town, though it does seem powerful for scum.
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actually he's at L-1, either way, I was waiting to see who had hammered but apparently nobody is going to. The case on R_O is decent, the interactions with zindabad, his general demeaner, the only problem with that is I've played with him before and this is sorta like his general playstyle. I personally want to see if my perdicitons with the zindabad interaction is right or not. so Vote Red Omega
I think that's as good a plan as any. I've been up in the air between R_0 and AE for a while now, and I'd rather go with R_0 simply based off of the scummy confirmation.
actually he's at L-1, either way, I was waiting to see who had hammered but apparently nobody is going to. The case on R_O is decent, the interactions with zindabad, his general demeaner, the only problem with that is I've played with him before and this is sorta like his general playstyle. I personally want to see if my perdicitons with the zindabad interaction is right or not. so Vote Red Omega
Yeah, pretty sure it was a hammer already, but nice to be sure of it.
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No flavor this time. just results (I'm running 4 RP campaigns on site, modding 2 RP forums, and applying for colleges. Kinda swamped ATM)
Red-0mega has been lynched. He was Old Vindictive Magician - Townie
It is now Night 4. Day 5 will start at 9 AM Monday, May 17.
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after a brief reprieve, it appears the killing has returned in earnest.
Anaklusmos is dead. He was Chaos Sorcerer - Townie Scrambler
Jerubbaal is dead. He was King's Knight - Townie Mason
With 7 Alive it's 4 to lynch.
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Well, well, well. Any nominations for the SK since I know who the remaining mafia are?
I wanted to drag this out, but there might be more day kill shenanigans. jerubaal and I disagreed about yesterdays lynch. But for unity I went along with him. What we didn't tell you is that, we have abilities. One of them is name cop.
Vote clayton who is actually, Scarr, Scout of Dark World. And therefore since Anak was town and was actually switcher. We know who clayton switched with, Id_ego.
The SK is going to vote with the scum to avoid catching him with PoE. But I already have a strong feeling who it is. But that remains to be seen.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Well, well, well. Any nominations for the SK since I know who the remaining mafia are?
I wanted to drag this out, but there might be more day kill shenanigans. jerubaal and I disagreed about yesterdays lynch. But for unity I went along with him. What we didn't tell you is that, we have abilities. One of them is name cop.
Vote clayton who is actually, Scarr, Scout of Dark World. And therefore since Anak was town and was actually switcher. We know who clayton switched with, Id_ego.
The SK is going to vote with the scum to avoid catching him with PoE. But I already have a strong feeling who it is. But that remains to be seen.
Interesting.
A few things:
-Is your ability The Inexperienced Spy? It's the only new card to show up.
-Respect Play was destroyed when Jeru died. Ergo, he used it. Is this true? f so, what did it do?
I'd vote clay, but first I want to hear the answers. No need to rush this day.
Well, well, well. Any nominations for the SK since I know who the remaining mafia are?
I wanted to drag this out, but there might be more day kill shenanigans. jerubaal and I disagreed about yesterdays lynch. But for unity I went along with him. What we didn't tell you is that, we have abilities. One of them is name cop.
Vote clayton who is actually, Scarr, Scout of Dark World. And therefore since Anak was town and was actually switcher. We know who clayton switched with, Id_ego.
The SK is going to vote with the scum to avoid catching him with PoE. But I already have a strong feeling who it is. But that remains to be seen.
SK nominations? Either AK or TACKY. You should let your thoughts be known before the day ends too as you'll most likely be NK'd.
I'll hold my vote. In addition to Alphas questions what was the disagreement about the lynch.
A few things:
-Is your ability The Inexperienced Spy? It's the only new card to show up.
-Respect Play was destroyed when Jeru died. Ergo, he used it. Is this true? f so, what did it do?
I'd vote clay, but first I want to hear the answers. No need to rush this day.
It is inexperienced spy and we have two other abilities but they cost points. Which were spent last night. No idea about respect play
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Mmk, I have your softclaim in my list, but I guess I missed the vanilla part.
New list
Town
Infinis - Jack's Knight - Mason
jerubbaal - King's Knight - Mason
TheArtistCurrentlyKnownAs - Strike Ninja - 2-shot vig
Anaklusmos761 - Chaos Sorceror - Role switcher
Linked (both town or both scum)
claytonthegreat - Homunculus the Alchemic Being - Vanilla
Id Ego - Magician of Faith - Vanilla
The Rest
red_0mega - Old Vindictive Magician - Vanilla
Alpha Werewolf - Harpie Lady - Vanilla
Archmage Eternal - Dark Magician - Vanilla
Apokalypse_Kid - Reflect Bounder - "Mirror"
While I haven't been jazzed about TACKY's play all game, I doubt that there's a gambit running with it. He's handicapping himself tremendously if he's an SK, and we do have reasonable explanations for the kills which happened if you consider his claimed actions. I am not willing to consider a scum with double extra kills as a possibility, it's just unreal overpowered. I was writing a game a while back which had a potential double-extra-killing scum role in it, and it just made the numbers hideous. If he's a limited kill SK, we can deal with him whenever, he's not a huge threat ATM.
I was hoping for a more role-based case, but it doesn't really look like there's one to be had. I have to look over the behavioral discussion lately and decide if I still really want to lynch clay. At the very least, lynching clay gives us Id Ego's alignment, either way, so that's a strong potential benefit to consider.
Regardless, I continue to dislike the RO wagon, partially because I do happen to completely agree on the issue of AE. He's just been posting so minimally there's really not much of a behavioral case to make on him (which maybe is a real point, but it's a weak one).
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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In the meantime, I would prefer to pursue some of the tied together people rather than some of the individuals. I'm willing to listen to arguments and canbe swayed, but if the connected people are scum, we'll pretty much have the game in hand right there. There's a good chance that's the case and I think it's an advantage we should exploit. They are either bot scum and we win or they are both town and we gain a confirmed townie, further narrowing our list.
Lastly, on the issue of me being scum/SK/whatever running a gambit, all you have to do is look at my card in the yard and how it's not anymore. Scum wouldn't be given extra kills, as jerub said, and a two-shot SK would be too underpowered. I see the argument, but it should be obvious that the chances of me=scum is very minimal. And I for one know I'm not.
Pushes Tacky as town and smears me.
Not an all town wagon. Look to Tacky
In regards to Zind saying this "...And really, I'm not seeing TACKY at all..."
In regards to AI saying "TACKY has been playing it really safe with his votes since Infinis called him out. ..."
Pushes Tacky off as a vig. Theres no way he would know Tacky has a kill ability.
And now AI is dead.
Never NK'd
They're linked, scum gambit.
Coaches Tacky here. Something they had to get straight after talking about it at night.
BINGO.
Now he acknowledges. Not after Zind brings it up but later after AI says something.
Lol, doesn't want to waste the shots? Really? And you shoot night 1? His reasoning for tchoob is all wrong. First he was gun ho on Anak but doesn't shoot him and turns around and puts the kill on the town with "expressed suspicion". Look at the ending vote count.
Look theres 3 candidates right there.
Jobo says to hold the vig but Tac puts him down.
Shows he really wants to kill with the fearmongering but again puts it on the town
Ah, AI. How mad must you be now?
Responding to AI's post above. Smearing me again.
Way to phrase that fishing question "might shed some light". A question scum need to know.
I love this. Looking back now you can see him trying to help gleng out of his hole he dug. Trying to "lead the witness" if you will.
I love this gem. Bussing his buddy and using the thought process he should have used in holding onto his "limited" shots. Why should he follow this but not you Tac?
What happened to this? Notice that Zind worked on swaying the action away from Tacky. Anak why did you so easily accept it? "I think this is a great idea, and I fully support this plan. I hope everyone else does too because that is what I am doing tonight" Using it on two unconfirmed we're in the boat we're in now, not sure if they're town or scum. On a somewhat confirmed player the player that is switch would then become confirmed.
Well thier linked now. So either both town or scum correct?
What are you interested in?
Now this scum gambit isn't new, its been brought up before. Pick apart this post and discuss tacky.
vote tacky
I also have the feeling AK is the SK and we should look into that tomorrow.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The case is built around me being linked to Zind when I'm not. Zind tried to link to me (guessing my vigness) but I never linked to him. Anywhere. Ever. Scum will try to link to a lot of people in the eventual case they are caught, it causes confusion within the town. I don't know how Zind knew I was a vig, probably an investigative role for the scum somewhere, but I can't be held responsible for what Zind did.
Please consolidate the main points against me and I'll try and answer tomorrow at the earliest. Night probably.
I've gone over this before, in my r_0 case. But I'm thinking back on it, and, well, there is a wealth of good targets for them:
-Ank, who can confirm townies and condemn the SK/a final scum
-Any of the remaining masons, who are very dangerous targets for Ank
-TACKY, a confirmed two-shot-vig
-Any other cleared person
If scum don't act now, they lose due to sheer numbers. So why didn't they kill any of these people?
Well, it's obvious. One of these people is scum. There's possibly a second scum (21 players with 5 scum and 1 SK doesn't sound farfetched to me).
The question is only which of the are scum.
I have a couple theories on this:
-One of the masons is scum. Pushed by the power of a three-mason-group, which we should look into.
-TACKY is scum. AE went over this, and the case isn't half bad.
I'll have to think about this, but I still think r_0 is the lynch.
My blog.
Thats is the question. I'm not going to rack my brain over it and get distracted though. Could be a case of, use an ability or NK.
Well its obvious? But why didn't they NK? Use of ability?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
@Tacky, So your saying that Zin went out of his way that last couple weeks to implicate you as his scum buddy, especially when zin was doing a pretty good job looking town and in my personal opinion didn't need that. it's a weak defence.
Weird potential scenario - scum didn't kill last night, and with the roles claimed, we have no indication of any active protective roles in the town. IMHO it's possible that scum could not kill during a night in order to save a kill for another night, but that's hugely speculative. This is also maybe worth considering in evaluating TACKY's "killing" ability.
Or maybe it just got forgotten. It's terribad play, but it does happen. Dunno which is really more likely.
The only real person that I'm weirded out is still alive is Anak. His role is unreal powerful for the town, even as an every-other night ability. The rest are not so surprising.
Because I'm wondering, do we have any clue whatsoever why Zind died?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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What are the circumstances? Its Zind saying RO did nothing at night right? Think that was a safe call.
OK what two are we talking about again? Masons know their alignment. Sometimes they're mod confirmed other times they're not.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
So you either think we're both town or both scum.
The same can be applied to who was switched last night. However we had asian to confirm us as town. Those last night did not.
With two scum to go and a possible neutral and confirmed townies we should have this close to wrapped up
12-11? I'm losing track
I'm not saying the he did it on purpose, maybe by accident, but look at the facts here. He was vanilla scum, so he obviously had no idea, on his own, what I did the previous night. So he obviously had ulterior motives by bringing that up.
My thinking is that there is an investigative role for the scum, they watched me, Zind brought it up to seem more town/implicate me later.
You said it yourself, he was doing a great job looking town and had everyone convinced, so at the time him scumbuddying me went unnoticed as he seemed town. Just in case he ever dies, all the sudden the town is shaken with him scum and he creates suspicion on townies as a result.
It's not that he didn't need to implicate me. He wanted to. Not exactly me, but implicate a townie. It's a way for scum to continue a WIFOM game post-mortem. Another way to cast suspicion on townies.
This is all beside the point though. My main point is that while scum Zind may have tried to link to me on a few occasions, I never once linked myself to him. Scumbuddy links are usually mutual. I had nearly nothing to do with him, other than asking about his investigative results.
Actually, no you didn't have AsianInvasion to confirm you, she was dead before you two claimed to be masons, also, how was Jerub mod confirmed?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
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So?
Ok hopefully discussion picks up coming out of the weekend.
TheArtistCurrentlyKnownAs power
jerubbaal power
Infinis power
Anaklusmos761 power
Apokalypse_Kid power
claytonthegreat new mason?
Id Ego new mason?
Alpha Werewolf
archmage Eternal
red 0mega
So if any of the "powers" are lying I'd say Tacky and/or Anak. Along with AK being the SK.
If not you have the vanillas to choose from.
Choices look to be killing one of the new masons for confirmation. Looking at the powers. Mafia would kill off power roles so, Tacky could still be alive due to lose of vig. Anak is still alive because... IDK. Then the vanillas. Do we take the powers word for it and lynch down the list of vanillas thinking the scum are hiding behind the claim?
points against- Tacky. Thought up the word tool to confirm, something they could have talked about durring the night.
Anak. Used his power last night so couldn't NK.
Didn't like this quote either. Why would someone counter? At this point we're only thinking SK. Scum might be getting nervous in thinking there is some protective role still out there and want to know about it.
Plus Anak is looking to be flailing a bit today. this,
Alphas reply,
Then this,
Followed by jerubbaal saying
And then Alpha,
Fllowed by Anak,
Anak looks to be really interested in getting to night.
unvote
I think I'll be heading where I started this game off and voting Anak.
Yeah, how is Jerub mod confirmed?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
initially Me = King's Knight, Asian = Queen's Knight, Jeru = Jack's Knight
We were switched I'm now Jack's Knight and he is King's Knight.
Why do you think I crossed off jeru and asian in my case against TACKY? Because they are mod confirmed to me as town.
We switched roles, so I can confirm Anak's ability. What does this bear on his alignment? Role switching seems like a weak cop variant, ie knowing one we know the other. Highly doubt he's scum. I disagree with jeru about TACKY but we both agree there are better lynches today.
Scum cannot kill either of us without the cooperation of SK and/or vig. It auto confirms the other player. I can't see the SK and scum both submitting No kill last night. Which is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around.
12-11? I'm losing track
No, they're just "linked". Both claimed vannila town - if we know one's alignment, we know the other's.
Therefore, not at all in the clear.
My blog.
AH i see now. I wasn't thinking about names. i see now how you are confirmed
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Who said it earlier, Id? That they were setting up Zind even further with the "no submit action can't be NKd". That makes sense.
OK right.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Caius the Shadow Monarch
Terrorking Archfiend
Summoned Skull
But what if he is false-claiming? Well, his card, Fuhma Shuriken has shown up in the graveyard both times there were NK's. If you google a picture of Fuhma Shuriken, on the card art there is Strike Ninja throwing the Shuriken. So the likelyhood of him falseclaiming is very small.
As for people that aren't nearly confirmed, why isn't r_0 scum? Zindabad was the one who cleared him, Zindabad was scum. Doesn't that mean we should be looking heavily into the person the scum cleared?
I wonder, the there seems to be a pattern among the scum as previously stated.
Homunculus the Alchemical Being seems like a JoAT me and that's the reason there wasnt a kill last night. Scum submit no NK for ability immunity? And Joat didnt have Kill. Lynching clay confirms his partner and forces scum into making a tough choice. Kill a mason to confirm the other (as if there is doubt, but I digress) or kill ID to lessen number of confirmed townies.
I'd say whoever Asian was pushing as scum is probably town and the scum were trying to setup mislynch.
Lynching down the list of vanillas seems doable, but I'd rather have something more substantial to lynch off of.
12-11? I'm losing track
I know it's rather hardcore mod gaming, but it seems to hold true, so why not use it.
Also, I was wondering about a JoaT role as well. A possibility I was thinking was that one of their abilities could stop all NK's for one night, vig and SK included. That way it wouldn't be too broken, and it accounts for the lack of an apparent SK as well. It seems more plausible than the scum submitting a night action so they don't get a kill. They could also have the one time Daykill, which would explain that too.
The question is, who? For that, I have no idea.
AE is my vote among the vanillas by a mile.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Or we could lynch one of clay/Id and find out immediately, confirming the other or condemning him.
I still think r_0 is the lynch.
My blog.
smoke_Killah
Wait, what? So you are calling Alpha and Anak and anyone else who agrees scum? Then you call AE scum just to top it off. This is, like, a misrep on the entire town. You are a good play today IMO, with Zind 'confirming' you and whatnot.
Lastly, you are guilty of your own accusations here. You rail against other people for calling you scummy without a case, yet you do the same against AE, calling for his lynch with no evidence. Well, maybe not his lynch but 'serious pressure'. This all sounds like deflecting.
FoS Red_0mega
No, apparently, you misunderstood. The part I bolded is precisely what I meant when I said "a comment made by scum". I meant that I have no idea why you would want to lynch me based on an off-hand comment made by lying scum. Seriously, this "case" against me is more rediulous than AsianInvasion's charge that I must be a Serial Killer because I am Old Vindictive Magician.
As far as my stance on Archmage Eternal is concerned:
Is it hypocritical? Perhaps.
Do I care? Not particularly.
You want to call me out for it, fine, but this entire town has been incredibly lazy, largely playing right into the scum's hands.
I intended to analyze his posts this morning, started looking over them, and realized it was not going to work. I am, honestly, not very good at making analyses, and Archmage Eternal is well known for (and seems proud of) his "unorthodox" playstyle. I am not saying that there is nothing their, just that I doubt I will be able to make it stick. Particularly when all of you seem so determined to rely on flavor, mod-gaming, and random statements made by scum rather than behavioral analysis anyway.
smoke_Killah
But see, "This comment from scum, a lying scum..." was a comment that confirmed your towniness. You see where the problem lies. Sometimes, when a scum has an idea that they might get caught, they will do that, in an attempt to drag a townie down with them.
But Zindabad had no inclination that he was going to die soon. To him, he had the town fooled, going so far as to say he did not expect to be killed. What does that mean for you? It means that his comment towards you was NOT a last ditch attempt to bring someone else down. Frankly, I have no idea why he would say that about a town.
Also, the biggest problem with you, is that he confirmed you with his tracking ability. Which you were cool with at the time, but now we know he was lying about being a tracker. So you, being the person he "tracked" to confirm, write it off as just some comment.
Which helps your case of being scum. You are trying to downplay Zind's confirmation of you constantly, always referring to it as some comment. It's much more than just some comment regardless of your alignment, but only a scum would try to downplay the importance of it in order to live. And now, in your last post, you start trying to deflect onto anyone who's suspicious of you, or AE because hey he was kinda scummy right?
Confirm Vote
I love this. Don't go after me go after AE. You want to see a case against you but have no intention of brining one against me. You want the town to do that for you. Very scummy of you. Skimming through your posts I don't see much scum hunting either. Just found your case on me. I'm scum, your sure of it.
This can be made even more so with Tacky. But no one wants to pursue that.
vote red Omega
As far as I'm concerned I want to see RO, Tacky, and AK dead.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
My blog.
With 10 Alive it's 6 to Lynch.
red_0mega (4) - alpha werewolf, Apokalypse Kid, Anaklusmos, Archmage_Eternal
Claytonthegreat (1) - Infinis,
Archmage_Eternal (1) - red_0mega
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Unvote. Vote: Red_omega
12-11? I'm losing track
LAST POSTS:
Jerubbaal 10th
Id 10th
Clayton 8th
AK 7th
Cmon guys what are your thoughts on how the day is winding down and thoughts on moving forward in the coming days?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
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Vote Red_0mega
Garwsh, that's becoming a strange new habit.
I'll give a current thought analysis on the game.
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Yeah, pretty sure it was a hammer already, but nice to be sure of it.
red_0mega (6) - alpha werewolf, Apokalypse Kid, Anaklusmos, Archmage_Eternal, Infinis, TACKY
Archmage_Eternal (1) - red_0mega
No flavor this time. just results (I'm running 4 RP campaigns on site, modding 2 RP forums, and applying for colleges. Kinda swamped ATM)
Red-0mega has been lynched. He was Old Vindictive Magician - Townie
It is now Night 4. Day 5 will start at 9 AM Monday, May 17.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Anaklusmos is dead. He was Chaos Sorcerer - Townie Scrambler
Jerubbaal is dead. He was King's Knight - Townie Mason
With 7 Alive it's 4 to lynch.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I wanted to drag this out, but there might be more day kill shenanigans. jerubaal and I disagreed about yesterdays lynch. But for unity I went along with him. What we didn't tell you is that, we have abilities. One of them is name cop.
Vote clayton who is actually, Scarr, Scout of Dark World. And therefore since Anak was town and was actually switcher. We know who clayton switched with, Id_ego.
The SK is going to vote with the scum to avoid catching him with PoE. But I already have a strong feeling who it is. But that remains to be seen.
12-11? I'm losing track
Interesting.
A few things:
-Is your ability The Inexperienced Spy? It's the only new card to show up.
-Respect Play was destroyed when Jeru died. Ergo, he used it. Is this true? f so, what did it do?
I'd vote clay, but first I want to hear the answers. No need to rush this day.
My blog.
SK nominations? Either AK or TACKY. You should let your thoughts be known before the day ends too as you'll most likely be NK'd.
I'll hold my vote. In addition to Alphas questions what was the disagreement about the lynch.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
It is inexperienced spy and we have two other abilities but they cost points. Which were spent last night. No idea about respect play
12-11? I'm losing track
One or none scum on ZDS wagon day 1, no sir. A townie lynch is like chum to scum sharks.
jeru liked red
12-11? I'm losing track
vote clayton
My blog.
Yeah like I said I'd vote. The thing is I'm in one game atm and night is to long, so I'll wait to hear from others.
They hate us cause they ain't us.