The PR looks legit to me, judging by Wuffles' posts. But I can't see that it clears him. The PR as as he claims it is would be horribly unfair to a scum player, since a simple "are you scum?" hoses him. Clearly if he was put on the scum team, he'd have an out on alignment questions. So the claim does nothing for me one way or the other.
Looking back over Wuffles and Zionite, I'm content to leave my vote on. Zionite was real quick to jump on the terrible kpaca wagon, and quick to barn WoD on CC. Zionite defended WoD almost immediately upon replacing, argued with Cyan that he didn't defend WoD, and then almost immediately after did it again:
Quote from Zionite »
Wrath of Dog is low on my list. I think(thought) Cyan is(was) scummier. The reason being already stated above. He made that slip and it makes me think he's town.
His breadcrumbing his PR actually is more of a negative in my eyes than a postitive. In a game where (we've gone over this a lot, and Zionite even pointed it out himself in BIG BOLD RED letters) roles are independent of alignment, breadcrumbing doesn't really accomplish anything. Feels like he's trying to give his PR claim more legitimacy, which really isn't necessary for a townie. For a scum, though, it would make sense since he'd want to get as many people as possible to believe he has to lie about his alignment.
Its not really cheating. Its making the roles work for us, similar to ged + cyan.
Plus, you'd get a lot of info from it since we have a bit of a disparity between those who want me dead and those who don't.
As for the question of scum being hosed if they were asked an alignment based question, I have already said that I believe I can say whatever I want about my alignment but I'm just taking care not to let something somewhere be the truth lol. I'm being careful with all questions.
HOWEVER, it did not say anywhere that I could take liberty with a "who are not your scumbuddies" question, so I would have to lie, hence tell the opposite of the truth, in that case. I did answer "I know who the scum are", which being mafia would be true and I would die. But since I'm not dead, its proof that I don't know the scum really, and in turn not mafia.
This of course is granted that you believe the role. If you don't then simply place the PR vote like I said. I will kill myself to save the viggings, etc. I think we have plenty to go on already without taking that route though.
Jobie (The Contentless One) <--- LURKING HARDER THAN A CREAMPUFFEATER
I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, hate it when I get called for scummy lurking because I have a bunch of RL things going on and I've stated them ITT. I have made a promise for content and your choice to attempt to make me appear scummy due to having a busy RL situation is ******** (not scummy, just ********). You'll get a content post for the day from me by the end of the day probably in a few hours after I'm back from class.
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Once upon a time, in VR
Someone made up something 'consistent with avoidance'
Thus, a haiku:
Beware the PR
For it is easily faked
Clearing by claim bad
...and someone else figured out the important part (i.e. Not Mafia, working towards her own ends). That worked out fairly well as I recall. Besides, you were under the spotlight. The evidence suggests Wuffles was following this PR from the beginning. Behaviorally, the only problem I have is he didn't come right out and claim it from the start, but poor play isn't equal to scummy play. Behavior + claim suggests Not Mafia.
*pours desCoures more wine*
(...and speaking of wine I'm having trouble seeing Wuffles coming up with a scheme where he comes up with a fake PR in a game where in all likelihood no one has to lie about his claim, and then Zionite deciding to continue the gambit.)
Also, I'm against Zionite killing himself at this time. If PoE demands it later, cool beans, but not today.
@PM- it feels like you're doing too much assuming there. *If* wuffles was scum and made up a PR to avoid having to answer direct questions, then Zionite doesn't have much choice *but* to continue the charade, does he? I know if I were replacing in for scum, I'd pretty freaking careful to keep any gambits he made going, and furthermore, if I didn't think I could pull it off, I'd do exactly what Zionite did, which is claim that gambit outright and try to parlay it into a townie move.
@PM- it feels like you're doing too much assuming there. *If* wuffles was scum and made up a PR to avoid having to answer direct questions, then Zionite doesn't have much choice *but* to continue the charade, does he? I know if I were replacing in for scum, I'd pretty freaking careful to keep any gambits he made going, and furthermore, if I didn't think I could pull it off, I'd do exactly what Zionite did, which is claim that gambit outright and try to parlay it into a townie move.
*shakes head*
If Wuffy was running a gambit, the facade hadn't been revealed to the town yet. Wuffy hadn't been pressured to claim anything, and no speculation existed that Wuffy might have a PR. With this setup, there's very little upside to such a gambit. Assuming that one guy would have to think this was a good idea and then a second guy would decide it was still a good idea is not that big a leap. The alternative would be to replace in and just play the game (which sounds far more viable).
The simpler explanation is that this isn't a gambit (meaning the PR is real). That makes it far more likely Zionite is town.
I'm so tempted to throw down a Zionite vote, and his play has been bad... but I can't shake my read of Wuffles - that he was really town. I'll waffle around a bit and come back with a more concrete decision later.
Was sick. High fever. Dizziness. Now better. Caught up.
I must say one very very important thing. SB has used the same PR before in one of his games on this very same site: Black Isle Mafia. In that game, Alx played a character with a compulsion to lie to direct questions. I have no idea why SB would repeat such a role here, but it's probably because said role didn't cause any major problems then and the players actually had some fun and headaches in trying to figure out the cryptic Alx.
I went through the players' list of that game and besides me, only two other players of this game were in it: WOD and MMOD. Now, here's why I think Zionite didn't fake his PR. Said PR was used before in one of SB's very games. Chances of it being created on the spot is almost nil. And if the PR was a gambit utilized by the scums, then WOD as one of them would have at least recognized or deliberately used it for his team as a gambit PR copied from one of SB's previous games. That means the entire scum team should as well. Yet no one thus far has even cited Black Isle in support of Zionite, making me certain that the scums are not aware of it. In fact, the fact that no other player, even Zionite himself, cited Black Isle to support the claim makes me believe the claim is genuine. And it's impossible that Wuffles made the PR up on the spot unless he was somehow able to communicate said PR to Zionite after/before he replaced in, and I don't think such communication is allowed by the mod. Therefore, the only way he would have been aware of the PR is if he really has it. I hope this makes sense. -_-
Though I'm not sure why MMOD doesn't remember it when I do? Probably because I vigged him there.
His breadcrumbing his PR actually is more of a negative in my eyes than a postitive. In a game where (we've gone over this a lot, and Zionite even pointed it out himself in BIG BOLD RED letters) roles are independent of alignment, breadcrumbing doesn't really accomplish anything. Feels like he's trying to give his PR claim more legitimacy, which really isn't necessary for a townie. For a scum, though, it would make sense since he'd want to get as many people as possible to believe he has to lie about his alignment.
Actually, if you have a PR that forces you to lie, you would breadcrumb or somehow hint at it too. Also, I didn't see him breadcrumbing about his role, only his PR.
And now,
1. I'm actually satisfied with how Zionite handled his wagon and am willing to clear him for now.
2. I'm actually very agreeable to kpaca's wagon. I've been in favor of Ace's wagon before he was replaced out, and was willing to see what kpaca v2.0 would do after he replaced Ace. And thus far, I didn't get much of a favorable impression from him, even worse than when he was kpaca v1.0.
Vote: kpaca
I found what peaked my interest as I was following along this week, but now I've realized that the RB on Kpaca isn't as big of a deal because Ged protected Cyan last night. The whole Zionite seems like the last two lynches we've had, someone playing obviously scummy for a while, but ends up just being a misunderstood/poorly played town.
I find the logic in Dagger's post decent and I'd rather pursue Kpaca than Zionite.
Vote: Kpaca
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Wouldn't it take one with the mystery Motivator helping out?
What mystery motivator? Did I miss a claim somewhere?
Thoughts:
1. Dagger's logic is excellent by the by but still only goes to backing up the PR, which I don't really doubt anyway.
2. All this talking, and Zionite still won't say what he can (or "can't", as the case may be) do. I'm not asking him a direct question, but I don't expect him to keep paddling around and not ability-claiming.
3. I am perfectly happy with the kpaca push and want him to claim too.
4. I really like desCoures most recent post and pretty much subscribe to his newsletter on all counts except re: Jobie.
@Zionite- (Please note the following is not a question, just a statement.) I would like to know how long a time must pass before you can talk about something truthfully once it has been asked of you. For example, if someone asks you what your alignment is in post 1100, I like to know when you can type the words "I am town" without being modkilled. Because otherwise, you have to write down every single question any of us has asked you and make sure that nothing you ever type can be construed as an answer to one of those questions.
I like Dagger's reasoning (although I've replaced into games before where the mod allowed the previous player to tell me what he had been up to, so replacing didn't hose the role). The rest of his post stands to reason though as no one else pointed out the previous use of the role (unless Dagger himself is scum) but that seems too twisted. For now, I'm willing to put Zionite as well as Dagger as leaning town.
1. Dagger's logic is excellent by the by but still only goes to backing up the PR, which I don't really doubt anyway.
If you believe the PR then I'm clear. It's as simple as that. Technically I could be a neutral, but I can always answer "do you have a kill ability" and dismiss that notion as well.
2. All this talking, and Zionite still won't say what he can (or "can't", as the case may be) do. I'm not asking him a direct question, but I don't expect him to keep paddling around and not ability-claiming.
You're ******** me. I've said around 5 times at least I have no abilities other than the PR. Are you even reading?
@Zionite- (Please note the following is not a question, just a statement.) I would like to know how long a time must pass before you can talk about something truthfully once it has been asked of you. For example, if someone asks you what your alignment is in post 1100, I like to know when you can type the words "I am town" without being modkilled. Because otherwise, you have to write down every single question any of us has asked you and make sure that nothing you ever type can be construed as an answer to one of those questions.
Its not a matter of time shadow knight. Its a matter of formatting and word choice. That's what a posting restriction is. So if you were to ask me a question, then I could lie(and you know I'm lying since I've claimed), and especially on yes/no questions you can know the real answer right away.
Essentially there isn't a time limit. I just can't directly answer you with the truth, but I can talk about it after I've lied to you, since the question is no longer open for an answer. The PM doesn't say this, but that's how I interpret it from my posts where I haven't died and Wuffles' posts.
@ Zionite - it seems to me like you would just be able to format all of your posts like this and thus, completely play normally around your PR. Correct me if I am wrong.
@ Zionite - it seems to me like you would just be able to format all of your posts like this and thus, completely play normally around your PR. Correct me if I am wrong.
Well yeah. I could have very well just never answered questions or quoted them and played fine. However, after awhile of not answering questions or not being as direct with other players as they are to each other, then suspicion grows.
If you believe the PR then I'm clear. It's as simple as that.
No, this is bull. You could easily have the PR but also have an exception for questions about alignment. All roles in this game appear designed to be played by town or scum.
You're ******** me. I've said around 5 times at least I have no abilities other than the PR. Are you even reading?
The only places I've seen you answer it have been full of double negatives, e.g.
Quote from Zionite »
I answered RafK thinking about the answer "do you have an ability?", which would be no, so I say yes. When its "do you not have an ability?", the answer is yes and so I say no. Remember, if I lie about that, I die. So you know I have no other abilities.
Since that was a response to Shadow Knight's question, I rather thought the end result is that you really meant you HAVE other abilities, and that yet again you were not naming them. It's nice to see I could find a way to force you to give an answer less open to "oh, you misunderstood me..." later on.
@ Zionite - All things considered, I don't think people would be suspicious of you talking to them and answering their questions like this. If anything, what are they to be suspicious of, a PR?
No, this is bull. You could easily have the PR but also have an exception for questions about alignment. All roles in this game appear designed to be played by town or scum.
Like I said twice now, and again you are not reading, there is an exception to "are you town/are you scum" questions, but not for "what are not the names of the scum" questions.
@ Zionite - All things considered, I don't think people would be suspicious of you talking to them and answering their questions like this. If anything, what are they to be suspicious of, a PR?
I'm not following you.
I'm still happy with my vote on A_E until i see proof that he's this scummy in every game he plays.
He made 40 posts elsewhere since his last serious post here, so obviously he is ducking the thread. That pretty much makes all signs point towards lynching him.
I'm not ducking the game, and considered by track record of hyper-activity I'm a bit peeved I'm not given a little leeway. I had more pressing mafia matters in Led Zeppelin and have overall been very busy with school.
Claim:
I am Cassius Varrus, Roman Ex-Officer, since turned mercenary. I'm a one shot night vig, the flavor being that being a former officer, I still have a tendency to think I need to take matters into my own hands, and once per game I can do just that. I have not used the kill yet.
I will now read up.
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Really? Which other games am I ducking? Please, do tell. Excuse me for having a busy week, and deciding that when I do get on forums, I'd rather make posts in the forums that do not involve thought. Seriously, worry about you, and I'll worry about me.
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Like I said twice now, and again you are not reading, there is an exception to "are you town/are you scum" questions, but not for "what are not the names of the scum" questions.
I think the key point you're missing is that we only have your word for that.
Apologies for being MIA for a bit there. Had a coworker bail due to medical emergency, so I had to cover for him and we've had some major ****storms to deal with. I'm posting this while on a freakin' conference call even as we speak.
I'll be brief. I agree that kpaca looks less contributive in this incarnation than he did previously. And Ace was looking plenty bad before kpaca replaced him. I can support a kpaca lynch. Will wait for Dagger to unvote before adding my own, as he will want to hammer.
Still don't like Zionite's behavior thus far, but I guess that's going to have to wait for tomorrow.
As for kpaca's claim, I'm leaning towards testing it. It's a minor plus that he claims that it hasn't been used yet, because I'd expect scum to use it quickly before they lose it somehow.
Hardly. Confirmed town you, during day one, was always dropping in with opinions and comments, usually with far more substance than "that's a terrible use of your ability", or "that's a bad claim". Plus, I remember a few big posts full of quotes and responses coming from you.
Hmm, maybe, but it gets me suspicious how immediately and thouroughly you barned Cyan with your criticism of Guardman when he claimed/used his ability, then when Cyan voted Zionite, then when Cyan gave his opinion on Zionite's claim.
Nope. Your opinions matched, not your style.
...
(also, I missed something in the post where PM votes for Zionite, and no longer blindly believe that they're scumbuddies)
Understood. And I admit to having significantly less content and opinions here than I did as version 1. This is due mostly to me replacing in and seeing my tops suspects lynch coming to a close (guardman had been since 1.0), and then by teh time day 3 rolled around I was dealing with a lot of hang ups in 2 others games (Led Zeppelin and Inheritance), in addition to school/work starting up. Overall I think my game has been lacking in the last 3 weeks or so.
kpaca in the pond
kpaca floating on the pond
fish kpaca out with a net
kpaca = scum
@Pale Mage
Once upon a time, in VR
Someone made up something 'consistent with avoidance'
Thus, a haiku:
Beware the PR
For it is easily faked
Clearing by claim bad
...THIS ISN'T SAKE IT'S SHOCHU DAMMIT
@Zionite
liar liar pants on fire
except they aren't really, ARE THEY
can't prove this 'till you do it, huh?
Surgeon General's Warning:
LEAVING THE ZIONITE ALIVE TOO LONG (DUE TO A CASE OF THINKING HE CAN DIE AT ANY TIME) MAY RESULT IN A TERMINAL CASE OF +1 SCUM. BE ADVISED.
...everything is possible, possible for youuuu (and meeee)... but that doesn't mean you're not scuuuuummyyyy...
...monkey want to vote/PR vote, but monkey thinking. Monkey need eat banana first.
Would like to see in graveyard:
NightArcher (The Silent One) <---- TALKTALKTALK YOU LURKER
Jobie (The Contentless One) <--- LURKING HARDER THAN A CREAMPUFFEATER
kpaca (The Scummy One) <--- RUNAWAY TRAIN NEVER COMING BACK
Still thinking (with bananas) ced395
Zionite
Surgeon General's Warning:
..drinking is hazardous to health and speech. That is all.
*hic*
Vote: kpaca
I would respond to this, but I do not understand any of it. Perhaps a sober translation would be appropriate.
I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, hate it when I get called for scummy lurking because I have a bunch of RL things going on and I've stated them ITT. I have made a promise for content and your choice to attempt to make me appear scummy due to having a busy RL situation is ******** (not scummy, just ********). You'll get a content post for the day from me by the end of the day probably in a few hours after I'm back from class.
Was sick. High fever. Dizziness. Now better. Caught up.
I must say one very very important thing. SB has used the same PR before in one of his games on this very same site: Black Isle Mafia. In that game, Alx played a character with a compulsion to lie to direct questions. I have no idea why SB would repeat such a role here, but it's probably because said role didn't cause any major problems then and the players actually had some fun and headaches in trying to figure out the cryptic Alx.
I went through the players' list of that game and besides me, only two other players of this game were in it: WOD and MMOD. Now, here's why I think Zionite didn't fake his PR. Said PR was used before in one of SB's very games. Chances of it being created on the spot is almost nil. And if the PR was a gambit utilized by the scums, then WOD as one of them would have at least recognized or deliberately used it for his team as a gambit PR copied from one of SB's previous games. That means the entire scum team should as well. Yet no one thus far has even cited Black Isle in support of Zionite, making me certain that the scums are not aware of it. In fact, the fact that no other player, even Zionite himself, cited Black Isle to support the claim makes me believe the claim is genuine. And it's impossible that Wuffles made the PR up on the spot unless he was somehow able to communicate said PR to Zionite after/before he replaced in, and I don't think such communication is allowed by the mod. Therefore, the only way he would have been aware of the PR is if he really has it. I hope this makes sense. -_-
Though I'm not sure why MMOD doesn't remember it when I do? Probably because I vigged him there.
Actually, if you have a PR that forces you to lie, you would breadcrumb or somehow hint at it too. Also, I didn't see him breadcrumbing about his role, only his PR.
And now,
1. I'm actually satisfied with how Zionite handled his wagon and am willing to clear him for now.
2. I'm actually very agreeable to kpaca's wagon. I've been in favor of Ace's wagon before he was replaced out, and was willing to see what kpaca v2.0 would do after he replaced Ace. And thus far, I didn't get much of a favorable impression from him, even worse than when he was kpaca v1.0.
Vote: kpaca
I'm not sure I follow the zionite clearing logic. All roles are possible for all alignments, so how can he not be scum with that PR?
I'd also think it would be nice if you expounded on your suspicions of me, so I can answer them if I have not already.
I found what peaked my interest as I was following along this week, but now I've realized that the RB on Kpaca isn't as big of a deal because Ged protected Cyan last night. The whole Zionite seems like the last two lynches we've had, someone playing obviously scummy for a while, but ends up just being a misunderstood/poorly played town.
I find the logic in Dagger's post decent and I'd rather pursue Kpaca than Zionite.
Vote: Kpaca
Is this the content laden post? You agree with Dagger on clearing zionite, so you're jumping to the next best wagon? FOS: Jobie
I am still alive, Italy has far fewer internet cafes than I was expecting. Odds are I can make another post tomorrow and then not again until saturday when I return home. Sorry
-----
I have skim read through the day, not close enough to look at the ins and outs of Zioites replies and how consistant his lies are, I presume he has lied consistantly though, since he isn't dead. There is no real reason to lie about claims given lack of alignment indication, and he did breadcrumb it. I am content with leaving him alive, since we can force him to self vig if necessary.
I haven't really picked up on what kpaca has done today to merit such attention (beyond being Ace's replacement), if someone could point it out so I can look at it that would be massively appreciated.
With WoD's death Ged and Cyan can be pretty much confirmed as town I feel. Getting good feelings from ced and dC. EP is coming off alright as well.
Did ged actually claim to protect Cyan? I noticed some people assume it but didn't notice ged saying so; could some insider information be leaking out?
vote Jobie for his late leap onto the Guardman Wagon and jump onto kpaca wagon. I can't actually recall his reactions to CTM day1, but I dont recall them being favourable.
You appear to be eager to put in the hammer before input.
No just the opposite. If I wanted to see you quick lynched I wouldn't of hesitated to put my vote on you. In hopes that someone else would then come in and hammer. I asked for a vote count and brought up Dagger hammering so no one could jump on and lynch you and say they forgot about Dagger.
vote Jobie for his late leap onto the Guardman Wagon and jump onto kpaca wagon. I can't actually recall his reactions to CTM day1, but I dont recall them being favourable.
I was one of the people leading the wagon. My late jump onto Gman was my gut and logic fighting, along with lack of time commitment to pay enough attention to make a decision. Kpaca snuck up on me during a period of RL busyness.
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I think that people are forgetting that Kpaca was RBed last night, and there was no NK.
Of the two scenarios possible, one being that the scum tried to NK me(knowing that Ged could protect me), the other being that Kpaca submitted the NK and was blocked, I think the latter is simply more likely.
I think that people are forgetting that Kpaca was RBed last night, and there was no NK.
Of the two scenarios possible, one being that the scum tried to NK me(knowing that Ged could protect me), the other being that Kpaca submitted the NK and was blocked, I think the latter is simply more likely.
No just the opposite. If I wanted to see you quick lynched I wouldn't of hesitated to put my vote on you. In hopes that someone else would then come in and hammer. I asked for a vote count and brought up Dagger hammering so no one could jump on and lynch you and say they forgot about Dagger.
Unless of course you were scum who wanted to be able to show tacit approval of a wagon while not actually being on the wagon, and then also capatalizing on a quick lynch.
I was one of the people leading the wagon. My late jump onto Gman was my gut and logic fighting, along with lack of time commitment to pay enough attention to make a decision. Kpaca snuck up on me during a period of RL busyness.
And we thank you for explaining why you think I'm scummy or responding to my point
I think that people are forgetting that Kpaca was RBed last night, and there was no NK.
Of the two scenarios possible, one being that the scum tried to NK me(knowing that Ged could protect me), the other being that Kpaca submitted the NK and was blocked, I think the latter is simply more likely.
Vote stands.
This sort of WIFOM seems like a poor reason to vote for somebody. I've noticed you don't appear to be actually attacking for their content so much as I usually see you do as scum. Granted, the death of WoD still speaks highly in your favor.
I wonder, though. If kpaca has a one-shot vig, and was allowed to keep that ability as scum (possible), I would have thought it would have been used already (a little bit WIFOM yes, but if you were the scum would you sit on a free kill with two known doctors around and every possibility that Ace's role would come under suspicion again? I think it's pretty unlikely).
Now, obviously it's possible he tried to use it last night and got blocked. In that case, though, he's going to be in a lot of trouble when we ask him to use it tonight and he can't, isn't he?
I suggest we nominate a target for kpaca to shoot tonight Failure to comply means we lynch him tomorrow.
I suggest we nominate a target for kpaca to shoot tonight Failure to comply means we lynch him tomorrow.
Before doing this we should decide what to do if he claims to be blocked. Tricky, because if he's scum and we pick a town target for him that's what he'll claim happened, and if he's town that's what will happen. We could go the "deal with it later" route, I guess.
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Looking back over Wuffles and Zionite, I'm content to leave my vote on. Zionite was real quick to jump on the terrible kpaca wagon, and quick to barn WoD on CC. Zionite defended WoD almost immediately upon replacing, argued with Cyan that he didn't defend WoD, and then almost immediately after did it again:
His breadcrumbing his PR actually is more of a negative in my eyes than a postitive. In a game where (we've gone over this a lot, and Zionite even pointed it out himself in BIG BOLD RED letters) roles are independent of alignment, breadcrumbing doesn't really accomplish anything. Feels like he's trying to give his PR claim more legitimacy, which really isn't necessary for a townie. For a scum, though, it would make sense since he'd want to get as many people as possible to believe he has to lie about his alignment.
I'm content to leave my vote where it is.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Plus, you'd get a lot of info from it since we have a bit of a disparity between those who want me dead and those who don't.
As for the question of scum being hosed if they were asked an alignment based question, I have already said that I believe I can say whatever I want about my alignment but I'm just taking care not to let something somewhere be the truth lol. I'm being careful with all questions.
HOWEVER, it did not say anywhere that I could take liberty with a "who are not your scumbuddies" question, so I would have to lie, hence tell the opposite of the truth, in that case. I did answer "I know who the scum are", which being mafia would be true and I would die. But since I'm not dead, its proof that I don't know the scum really, and in turn not mafia.
This of course is granted that you believe the role. If you don't then simply place the PR vote like I said. I will kill myself to save the viggings, etc. I think we have plenty to go on already without taking that route though.
I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, hate it when I get called for scummy lurking because I have a bunch of RL things going on and I've stated them ITT. I have made a promise for content and your choice to attempt to make me appear scummy due to having a busy RL situation is ******** (not scummy, just ********). You'll get a content post for the day from me by the end of the day probably in a few hours after I'm back from class.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
...and someone else figured out the important part (i.e. Not Mafia, working towards her own ends). That worked out fairly well as I recall. Besides, you were under the spotlight. The evidence suggests Wuffles was following this PR from the beginning. Behaviorally, the only problem I have is he didn't come right out and claim it from the start, but poor play isn't equal to scummy play. Behavior + claim suggests Not Mafia.
*pours desCoures more wine*
(...and speaking of wine I'm having trouble seeing Wuffles coming up with a scheme where he comes up with a fake PR in a game where in all likelihood no one has to lie about his claim, and then Zionite deciding to continue the gambit.)
Also, I'm against Zionite killing himself at this time. If PoE demands it later, cool beans, but not today.
*shakes head*
If Wuffy was running a gambit, the facade hadn't been revealed to the town yet. Wuffy hadn't been pressured to claim anything, and no speculation existed that Wuffy might have a PR. With this setup, there's very little upside to such a gambit. Assuming that one guy would have to think this was a good idea and then a second guy would decide it was still a good idea is not that big a leap. The alternative would be to replace in and just play the game (which sounds far more viable).
The simpler explanation is that this isn't a gambit (meaning the PR is real). That makes it far more likely Zionite is town.
Now vote for kpain like a good lad.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I must say one very very important thing. SB has used the same PR before in one of his games on this very same site: Black Isle Mafia. In that game, Alx played a character with a compulsion to lie to direct questions. I have no idea why SB would repeat such a role here, but it's probably because said role didn't cause any major problems then and the players actually had some fun and headaches in trying to figure out the cryptic Alx.
I went through the players' list of that game and besides me, only two other players of this game were in it: WOD and MMOD. Now, here's why I think Zionite didn't fake his PR. Said PR was used before in one of SB's very games. Chances of it being created on the spot is almost nil. And if the PR was a gambit utilized by the scums, then WOD as one of them would have at least recognized or deliberately used it for his team as a gambit PR copied from one of SB's previous games. That means the entire scum team should as well. Yet no one thus far has even cited Black Isle in support of Zionite, making me certain that the scums are not aware of it. In fact, the fact that no other player, even Zionite himself, cited Black Isle to support the claim makes me believe the claim is genuine. And it's impossible that Wuffles made the PR up on the spot unless he was somehow able to communicate said PR to Zionite after/before he replaced in, and I don't think such communication is allowed by the mod. Therefore, the only way he would have been aware of the PR is if he really has it. I hope this makes sense. -_-
Though I'm not sure why MMOD doesn't remember it when I do? Probably because I vigged him there.Actually, if you have a PR that forces you to lie, you would breadcrumb or somehow hint at it too. Also, I didn't see him breadcrumbing about his role, only his PR.
And now,
1. I'm actually satisfied with how Zionite handled his wagon and am willing to clear him for now.
2. I'm actually very agreeable to kpaca's wagon. I've been in favor of Ace's wagon before he was replaced out, and was willing to see what kpaca v2.0 would do after he replaced Ace. And thus far, I didn't get much of a favorable impression from him, even worse than when he was kpaca v1.0.
Vote: kpaca
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I find the logic in Dagger's post decent and I'd rather pursue Kpaca than Zionite.
Vote: Kpaca
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Unvote, Vote Kpaca
I've been unsure which direction to pursue, but I agree with Dagger's logic on Zionite.
I'm getting confused between the games, someone tell me what Kpaca did this game.
In fact, I think that Kpaca has been scummier than Ace was.
I really like the fact that the people I felt were scummy back in the middle of day one turned out to be the D2 & overwhelmingly likely D3 lynch.
*end ego boasting/boosting remark*
I would like Kpaca to claim.
What mystery motivator? Did I miss a claim somewhere?
Thoughts:
1. Dagger's logic is excellent by the by but still only goes to backing up the PR, which I don't really doubt anyway.
2. All this talking, and Zionite still won't say what he can (or "can't", as the case may be) do. I'm not asking him a direct question, but I don't expect him to keep paddling around and not ability-claiming.
3. I am perfectly happy with the kpaca push and want him to claim too.
4. I really like desCoures most recent post and pretty much subscribe to his newsletter on all counts except re: Jobie.
I like Dagger's reasoning (although I've replaced into games before where the mod allowed the previous player to tell me what he had been up to, so replacing didn't hose the role). The rest of his post stands to reason though as no one else pointed out the previous use of the role (unless Dagger himself is scum) but that seems too twisted. For now, I'm willing to put Zionite as well as Dagger as leaning town.
Checking the vote count on Kpaca before I vote.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Now we wait for kpaca to claim, and maybe for the rest to chip in.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
If you believe the PR then I'm clear. It's as simple as that. Technically I could be a neutral, but I can always answer "do you have a kill ability" and dismiss that notion as well.
You're ******** me. I've said around 5 times at least I have no abilities other than the PR. Are you even reading?
Its not a matter of time shadow knight. Its a matter of formatting and word choice. That's what a posting restriction is. So if you were to ask me a question, then I could lie(and you know I'm lying since I've claimed), and especially on yes/no questions you can know the real answer right away.
Essentially there isn't a time limit. I just can't directly answer you with the truth, but I can talk about it after I've lied to you, since the question is no longer open for an answer. The PM doesn't say this, but that's how I interpret it from my posts where I haven't died and Wuffles' posts.
@ Zionite - it seems to me like you would just be able to format all of your posts like this and thus, completely play normally around your PR. Correct me if I am wrong.
Well yeah. I could have very well just never answered questions or quoted them and played fine. However, after awhile of not answering questions or not being as direct with other players as they are to each other, then suspicion grows.
No, this is bull. You could easily have the PR but also have an exception for questions about alignment. All roles in this game appear designed to be played by town or scum.
The only places I've seen you answer it have been full of double negatives, e.g.
Since that was a response to Shadow Knight's question, I rather thought the end result is that you really meant you HAVE other abilities, and that yet again you were not naming them. It's nice to see I could find a way to force you to give an answer less open to "oh, you misunderstood me..." later on.
Like I said twice now, and again you are not reading, there is an exception to "are you town/are you scum" questions, but not for "what are not the names of the scum" questions.
I'm not following you.
I'm still happy with my vote on A_E until i see proof that he's this scummy in every game he plays.
I disagree that people would be suspicious of you for posting like @ - XYZ; but we just need more Kpaca now.
Also, will SB be resuming modship?
Claim:
I am Cassius Varrus, Roman Ex-Officer, since turned mercenary. I'm a one shot night vig, the flavor being that being a former officer, I still have a tendency to think I need to take matters into my own hands, and once per game I can do just that. I have not used the kill yet.
I will now read up.
Really? Which other games am I ducking? Please, do tell. Excuse me for having a busy week, and deciding that when I do get on forums, I'd rather make posts in the forums that do not involve thought. Seriously, worry about you, and I'll worry about me.
I was more complaining for there than here in all reality, and it was before you confirmed your existance in that game.
I think the key point you're missing is that we only have your word for that.
I'll be brief. I agree that kpaca looks less contributive in this incarnation than he did previously. And Ace was looking plenty bad before kpaca replaced him. I can support a kpaca lynch. Will wait for Dagger to unvote before adding my own, as he will want to hammer.
Still don't like Zionite's behavior thus far, but I guess that's going to have to wait for tomorrow.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Kpaca (7) - Pale Mage, Ced395, desCoures, Dagger, Jobie, Cyan, Emo Pinata
Zionite (2) - Kpaca, TMT
AE (1) - Zionite
With 19 alive, it is 9 to lynch.
I received a PM from SB, I've asked him to re-take his game if he's up for it. We'll keep you posted.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Well then I guess you'll have to wait until my role is revealed then huh?
If you seriously don't like it back it up with a PR vote. I'd be happy to prove you wrong.
I can night talk with some people. I know their names.
We need two suspects to go this route.
Anyone could be scum regardless of role. I'm not sure why we keep having to hammer this hope (not necessarily to you, but in general).
Understood. And I admit to having significantly less content and opinions here than I did as version 1. This is due mostly to me replacing in and seeing my tops suspects lynch coming to a close (guardman had been since 1.0), and then by teh time day 3 rolled around I was dealing with a lot of hang ups in 2 others games (Led Zeppelin and Inheritance), in addition to school/work starting up. Overall I think my game has been lacking in the last 3 weeks or so.
I would respond to this, but I do not understand any of it. Perhaps a sober translation would be appropriate.
Wait for it.
I'm not sure I follow the zionite clearing logic. All roles are possible for all alignments, so how can he not be scum with that PR?
I'd also think it would be nice if you expounded on your suspicions of me, so I can answer them if I have not already.
Is this the content laden post? You agree with Dagger on clearing zionite, so you're jumping to the next best wagon? FOS: Jobie
My what a wonderful lurk, lurk, jump wagon strategy you have. Vote: Emo Pinata
You appear to be eager to put in the hammer before input.
It changed on my original role pm. Not on Aces.
-----
I have skim read through the day, not close enough to look at the ins and outs of Zioites replies and how consistant his lies are, I presume he has lied consistantly though, since he isn't dead. There is no real reason to lie about claims given lack of alignment indication, and he did breadcrumb it. I am content with leaving him alive, since we can force him to self vig if necessary.
I haven't really picked up on what kpaca has done today to merit such attention (beyond being Ace's replacement), if someone could point it out so I can look at it that would be massively appreciated.
With WoD's death Ged and Cyan can be pretty much confirmed as town I feel. Getting good feelings from ced and dC. EP is coming off alright as well.
Did ged actually claim to protect Cyan? I noticed some people assume it but didn't notice ged saying so; could some insider information be leaking out?
vote Jobie for his late leap onto the Guardman Wagon and jump onto kpaca wagon. I can't actually recall his reactions to CTM day1, but I dont recall them being favourable.
Yeah, I claimed it. I also weakened Jobie because I got motivated.
No just the opposite. If I wanted to see you quick lynched I wouldn't of hesitated to put my vote on you. In hopes that someone else would then come in and hammer. I asked for a vote count and brought up Dagger hammering so no one could jump on and lynch you and say they forgot about Dagger.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I was one of the people leading the wagon. My late jump onto Gman was my gut and logic fighting, along with lack of time commitment to pay enough attention to make a decision. Kpaca snuck up on me during a period of RL busyness.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Of the two scenarios possible, one being that the scum tried to NK me(knowing that Ged could protect me), the other being that Kpaca submitted the NK and was blocked, I think the latter is simply more likely.
Vote stands.
I forgot.
Vote Kpaca.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Unless of course you were scum who wanted to be able to show tacit approval of a wagon while not actually being on the wagon, and then also capatalizing on a quick lynch.
And we thank you for explaining why you think I'm scummy or responding to my point
This sort of WIFOM seems like a poor reason to vote for somebody. I've noticed you don't appear to be actually attacking for their content so much as I usually see you do as scum. Granted, the death of WoD still speaks highly in your favor.
And you also failed to address why you find me scummy.
Now, obviously it's possible he tried to use it last night and got blocked. In that case, though, he's going to be in a lot of trouble when we ask him to use it tonight and he can't, isn't he?
I suggest we nominate a target for kpaca to shoot tonight Failure to comply means we lynch him tomorrow.
Before doing this we should decide what to do if he claims to be blocked. Tricky, because if he's scum and we pick a town target for him that's what he'll claim happened, and if he's town that's what will happen. We could go the "deal with it later" route, I guess.