MH: if you don't want to play, either seeka replacement or tell Jerubaal. having someone who doesn't want to play brings down the game, and screws it up for others.
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No, I'm not.
But most of the players don't want to believe that for one reason or the other.
I'm ok with all you who think I'm scum realizing your mistake after it's too late.
Welcome IRD, fund your points intersting, will start my pbpa on saturday or sunday.
It is now Tuesday morning. Don't join a game if you are not going to participate/ keep to your word. Jerubaal I think we need a replacement for Archon Kamigawa
MH's whole recent defeatism has been giving me pause on whether or not she is actually scum, but at this point it's not enough to sway me from all she's done. Having her replaced would possibly change my opinion on her but I'm not so sure about that given my thoughts on MH atm and I really don't want the mod to have to replace another person at this stage in the game as it's just ridiculous.
because i'm trying to find the posts against MH's case
Quote from Chubbz »
i was meaning to vote for MH, but i was waiting until i found those posts like i am now, an d voting zebi was my mistake of typing the wrong name.
claim (from before) i'm the town doctor: i can protect one person, per night.
flavor: doctoresque apparel (no, real value) of rubber gloves, face mask, etc.
So you initially vote without any solid premise, then say that you typed in the wrong name, that you were supposed to vote MandersHex instead of Zebi. But at the same time, you don't vote at all and when asked about it, you say that you are looking for her posts. Then eventually, when you do find her posts, you still dont vote?
Quote from MH »
Thanks for the support, but I was serious when I said I could care less. Lynch me, night kill me, or mod-kill me. I don't care. You'll all see when I'm gone.
wifom. wifom. wifom. All of your recent 10 or so posts are all wrapped up in wifom. damn.
Quote from Syrenz »
I see you still don't have a vote on MH. You clearly don't want to vote your scumbuddy. The only thing giving me pause right now is Seppel's train of thought.
To this, i have to agree. It is possible that Chubbz and MH are scumbuddies.
Quote from Syrenz »
Depending on MH's alignment I think you are a good lynch target for tomorrow.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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I'm more inclined to lynch MH atm, because A. There's still the fact that Seppel didn't react to there being a bodyguard and Doctor, B. MH seems to not want to be in this game anymore, if we don't lynch her today she would probably have to be replaced. Since I'm split between both of them I would prefer to spare the mod getting another replacement.
I don't like voting for new replacements especially when lurking is a large part of what plagued the previous player. I also will continue to vote for people who are defeatist, because it's rarely a town trait in my experience.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
WIFOM (wine in front of me) is a scum tactic of doing something that scum wouldn't do. it's a line from the princess pride about a hero and a villian trying to pick which glass is poisoned.
you wouldn't poison you own glass, because you'd die, but if you poison their glass, they'll be expecting that, and it goes on forever
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Where in that quote did I say she was lurking? However, being defeatist can also be a true town tell. However, if you consider all her posts, she's being a bit childish about it because we think she's scum.
Being childish is not something scum would do. This only draws more attention to her.
actually, defeatist is a town tell IMO, as scum can use it to gain empathy, or have people back off/wait.
and childish behavior can be a scum behavior. as it draws attention to them, it's also WIFOM (as they 'wouldn't do that as scum')
Ird, do you think everyone is everyone's scumbuddy?
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Where in that quote did I say she was lurking? However, being defeatist can also be a true town tell. However, if you consider all her posts, she's being a bit childish about it because we think she's scum.
Being childish is not something scum would do. This only draws more attention to her.
The point I'm getting at is that MendersHex was not lurking (not that you said so in your post) and is not seeking a replacement.
Your comments make little sense because MedersHex is not being replaced out of the game, but is actively giving up. On top of that, replacing out under pressure is not something a townie does even when they give up. They vote for themselves and stop paying attention. To say "give MH's replacement a chance" without a replacement for MH is not only useless, but makes no sense.
ATM MandersHex is just reacting hostilely to the pressure, I'm not replacing her out unless I get a specific request from her to do so. Replacing people just because they get grumpy is not acceptable.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I have no intention of replacing out. I started something, and I'm going to finish it. If you decide not to lynch me today, then I will continue to hunt scum, as I've been trying to do from day one.
And, please don't say it. I know that's WIFOM. Apparently, that's all I write.
Asian Invasion will be replacing for Archon Kamigawa, effective immediately.
Welcome to the game, AI.
Quote from Tekno »
Where in that quote did I say she was lurking? However, being defeatist can also be a true town tell. However, if you consider all her posts, she's being a bit childish about it because we think she's scum.
Please elaborate on how being defeatist can be a town tell.
Being childish is not something scum would do. This only draws more attention to her.
Ugh. Wifom.
And can anyone explain WIFOM to me? It's the only term I can't grasp.
Basically, it's an endless line of reveres psychology.
All I'm saying is that a scum wouldn't use silly tactic as this after being so open and honest around the town. That's my reasoning and I stand by it. But, if you want to lynch MH, go ahead. You're not getting my vote.
BS, your giving scum tactics too much credit. scum will do anything to survive. including defeatism. your opinion on our vote is fine, but don't underestimate scum tactics.
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He is not my scum buddy, but in my opinion he is scum. There is no reason for him to be defending me like he is, especially since I was the first one to point suspicion at him on day one.
I think he is stating my innocence so vehemently because he is scum, and he thinks that once I'm lynched and come up town, he'll have earned town points. I know it's WIFOM, but something to think about, none the less.
He is not my scum buddy, but in my opinion he is scum. There is no reason for him to be defending me like he is, especially since I was the first one to point suspicion at him on day one.
I think he is stating my innocence so vehemently because he is scum, and he thinks that once I'm lynched and come up town, he'll have earned town points. I know it's WIFOM, but something to think about, none the less.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions however you were saying that you were trying to kickstart the game as a defence and are town. You can't have it both ways. You think it's not scummy clearly, so you being suspicious of someone else for that same reason is terrible.
There's that bandwagon start up.
Mentions that he willingly and openly drew attention to himself. Seems like scum planting that so he could use it under fire.
Fishing.
Suspicious of Tekno for the same reason that people were suspicious of him, even though he doesn't seem to believe that it is actually suspicious.
Doesn't believe Zebi's claim, meaning either he is a power role or is scum. I think the latter is more likely.
Comes in and repeats what's already been said about Zebi
#124-
Looking for other's opinions.
#150- Looking for other's opinion's. She's not able to form her own.
#195-
It's not an accusation, but she voted him?
#198- Puts Chubbz in her scum list yet when questioned on this by KoZ, quickly backtracks.
I've been waiting to see this btw.
#223-
Defends RO. Attacks TMF for attacking her scumbuddy.
#237- Wagons Zebi right after her buddy does.
After Zebi claims she still says she's not convinced. She doesn't like the idea of having a confirmed townie around.
#304- Wagons (TMF) again right after her buddy.
She and RO were really heavily pushing the TMF lynch.
Also she seems way too confident for someone playing their first game as town. I'm assuming that this is because she is scum and feels less intimidated.
Red Omega
154- Comes and agrees with his scumbuddy about Tekno and defends her from mine and AK's FoS. Also mentions he is pretty sure Manders is a she. I found that a little strange since I never know the gender of players here until they mention it. Could be he knew this because they are scumbuddies. Minor, but still.
#163- More defense of MandersHex.
#177- wagons his scumbuddy on Tekno.
#236- Votes Zebi for voting his scumbuddy, (also saying "Way not to answer my question" when it looks to me like Zebi did actually answer the question anyways.)
#298- Agrees with his scumbuddy that Zebi and more likely me could know about the mods style and aren't neccesarily town. Because scum don't like having confirmed townies around.
#363-"
He wants an uncced doc to be lynched day 2. (This doesn't fit entirely well with this coming thing about Chubbz though)
Vote MandersHex
FoS Red Omega
Now here's an interesting thing. Our claimed Doctor wasn't the one killed last night, instead Seppel was. I don't see why scum would choose Seppel over Doctor, even if they wanted to WIFOM us into this situation. And Seppel was bodyguard which is essentially a doctor. It's hard to believe we have a bodyguard and a doctor, which would mean Chubbz is scum. But I need to check through Jerub's previous games to decide this. And Seppel being bodyguard would have thought about this when Chubbz claimed Doc which confuses me.
Good analysis.
Simple solution: Chubbz is not the doc.
When I was rereading the thread, AK seemed all over the map switching from fairly passive to aggressive in stances. I would like ot start pressure being applied here.
i will almost certainly never do an analysis like that again. wierdly my RL situation means that I am inclined to post more now. Soon I'll be back to my normal 3-liners.
We can cross off the first two I would say otherwise Seppel would probably have said something.
Not sure what to make of N1 then.
However, I do not think we should ignore SGT/have him as guarunteed town.
I disagree, I'm pretty sure most bodyguards are docs who die if their target would be killed. I'm also inclined to believe that Seppel was specifically NK'd.
because i'm trying to find the posts against MH's case
i was meaning to vote for MH, but i was waiting until i found those posts like i am now, an d voting zebi was my mistake of typing the wrong name.
claim (from before) i'm the town doctor: i can protect one person, per night.
flavor: doctoresque apparel (no, real value) of rubber gloves, face mask, etc.
Gotcha. Why would you have flavor when no one else does?
@ KoZ, I'm not playing any card. I've been telling it like I see it from day one. Obviously pretty much everyone here is convinced I'm scum, and honestly, I could care less. I'm feeling so done with this game at this point, I could care less is scum kill you all!
I think I agree. MH's frustration definitely seems genuine. It is not uncommon for first-timers to give up as townies when it seems as though their efforts are for naught. shibui looks that much scummier for using defeatism as justification for a lynch.
I'm the Vig. I have absolutely no flavor. I plan on shooting someone tonight.
I'm tempted to agree on EP/shibui. He hasn't actually done any scumhunting that I've seen.
Good analysis.
Simple solution: Chubbz is not the doc.
Nice try.
Interesting vote.
Way to not commit to the wagon.
I disagree, I'm pretty sure most bodyguards are docs who die if their target would be killed. I'm also inclined to believe that Seppel was specifically NK'd.
Gotcha. Why would you have flavor when no one else does?
I think I agree. MH's frustration definitely seems genuine. It is not uncommon for first-timers to give up as townies when it seems as though their efforts are for naught. shibui looks that much scummier for using defeatism as justification for a lynch.
I'm the Vig. I have absolutely no flavor. I plan on shooting someone tonight.
Vote: SGT_Chubbz
I don't think you should have revealed that at this point. But if you are the vig and you have no flavor then I don't see any reason why Chubbz would as Doc. However I don't understand why mafia would have flavor flavor either in that case.
When Zebi claimed no flavor Chubbz says
Quote from Chubbz »
None? not one bit? i'm finding this extremely hard to swallow
This basically means that he does have some sort of flavor. Do you think scum would be any different and would have flavor?
Who do you plan on vigging atm?
I think we should be lynching either MH or Chubbz and vigging the other.
Chubbz is getting lynched regardless of your claim, it's just a question of when.
Let me know if you guys have an idea of who the best vig targets are, and I'll figure out what I'm going to do when the time comes
I still am not fully convinced of MH being town but Tekno is next best choice. MH's post over here
He is not my scum buddy, but in my opinion he is scum. There is no reason for him to be defending me like he is, especially since I was the first one to point suspicion at him on day one.
I think he is stating my innocence so vehemently because he is scum, and he thinks that once I'm lynched and come up town, he'll have earned town points. I know it's WIFOM, but something to think about, none the less.
Right now, I'd rather see TeknoLink lynched over MandersHex. I'm not sure about a Chubbz lynch. Right now, he's an uncounterclaimed doc, which is making me wary.
Good analysis.
Simple solution: Chubbz is not the doc.
how so? why are you so vehement that i'm not the doc? and for a PR with no investigative role, a touch of flavor puts me down barrel towards your vig awfully fast.
I think I agree. MH's frustration definitely seems genuine. It is not uncommon for first-timers to give up as townies when it seems as though their efforts are for naught. shibui looks that much scummier for using defeatism as justification for a lynch.
defeatism is just as much a newb tactic as a scum tactic. don't be so sure it's automatically one or the other.
Right now, I'd rather see TeknoLink lynched over MandersHex. I'm not sure about a Chubbz lynch. Right now, he's an uncounterclaimed doc, which is making me wary.
someone who doesn't want me dead immediately? amazing
While I disagree with AI's methods, saying there's no flavor in his role speaks volumes.
Why? it could be just as easy for him to have a scum vig with flavor and then say he's town vig with no flavor, to kill me, and then still be able to pull off a night kill.
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MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
also if i have 5 votes on me and everyone is so enthralled that my death is a good thing for the town, just get it over with. i don't want to sit around watching this thread for the next however many days waiting for someone to put another vote on me. so either kill or get these votes off me.
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Eh what? I don't understand your first line. And the second, you think I'm scum. I will turn up not to be, so I want you to go down with me since you're that convinced of it. Yes, I do hold grudges
This...I don't know what to say.
Wait...AI, did AK submit a kill Night 1? Something's off here.
I'm fine with lynching Chubbz now. I was thinking last night that lynching Chubbz first would be better because I was becoming a bit wary about the possibility of MH being town. I thought back to Chubbz previous post here:
Quote from Chubbz »
and since your so convinved on me and MH bbeing scumbuddies, i'll leave my vote til' lynch. let's see scumbuddies then.
This post can be interpreted like this:
"Since you think we are scumbuddies, let's see what happens when MH dies if we're scumbuddies, because I know MH is actually town so we can't be."
I still can't believe that we do have 2 protective roles and that together with everything else means I'm happy with lynching Chubbz now.
Unvote, Vote SGT Chubbz
About the vig target, it really makes very little difference AI as you probably won't be able to kill anyone as you will be roleblocked since you claimed it (unless we get lucky and Chubbz is roleblocker). Best option would have been for us to lynch someone other than Chubbz without you claiming and you could have just vigged him easily. KoZ or Tekno are probably best targets though.
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Come join ours!!
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But most of the players don't want to believe that for one reason or the other.
I'm ok with all you who think I'm scum realizing your mistake after it's too late.
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why would you even ask this? both townie and scum alike would say no. (unless their suicidal)
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It is now Tuesday morning. Don't join a game if you are not going to participate/ keep to your word. Jerubaal I think we need a replacement for Archon Kamigawa
MH's whole recent defeatism has been giving me pause on whether or not she is actually scum, but at this point it's not enough to sway me from all she's done. Having her replaced would possibly change my opinion on her but I'm not so sure about that given my thoughts on MH atm and I really don't want the mod to have to replace another person at this stage in the game as it's just ridiculous.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
So you initially vote without any solid premise, then say that you typed in the wrong name, that you were supposed to vote MandersHex instead of Zebi. But at the same time, you don't vote at all and when asked about it, you say that you are looking for her posts. Then eventually, when you do find her posts, you still dont vote?
wifom. wifom. wifom. All of your recent 10 or so posts are all wrapped up in wifom. damn.
To this, i have to agree. It is possible that Chubbz and MH are scumbuddies.
are you indirectly asking for a claim?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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I'm more inclined to lynch MH atm, because A. There's still the fact that Seppel didn't react to there being a bodyguard and Doctor, B. MH seems to not want to be in this game anymore, if we don't lynch her today she would probably have to be replaced. Since I'm split between both of them I would prefer to spare the mod getting another replacement.
Both of them already claimed I thought?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I don't like voting for new replacements especially when lurking is a large part of what plagued the previous player. I also will continue to vote for people who are defeatist, because it's rarely a town trait in my experience.
Votecount
MandersHex - 3 (syrenz, SGT_Chubbz, shibui)
SGT_Chubbz - 3 (MandersHex, lrd, TeknoLink)
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Dear god......i pray for no daykills.....:rolleyes::p
welcome AI
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MendersHex is not lurking, she's being defeatist. That perspective is a lot different than a replaced lurker.
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom
You're quoting the wrong people again lol...
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
you wouldn't poison you own glass, because you'd die, but if you poison their glass, they'll be expecting that, and it goes on forever
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actually, defeatist is a town tell IMO, as scum can use it to gain empathy, or have people back off/wait.
and childish behavior can be a scum behavior. as it draws attention to them, it's also WIFOM (as they 'wouldn't do that as scum')
Ird, do you think everyone is everyone's scumbuddy?
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The point I'm getting at is that MendersHex was not lurking (not that you said so in your post) and is not seeking a replacement.
Your comments make little sense because MedersHex is not being replaced out of the game, but is actively giving up. On top of that, replacing out under pressure is not something a townie does even when they give up. They vote for themselves and stop paying attention. To say "give MH's replacement a chance" without a replacement for MH is not only useless, but makes no sense.
I wish I had some flavor in my PM, but I guess I can work with what I've got. I will probably full-claim after reading the thread.
Don't do that.
I'll be back after work. Do try not to lynch anyone before I get back.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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And, please don't say it. I know that's WIFOM. Apparently, that's all I write.
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That's what I was pointing out.
Welcome to the game, AI.
Please elaborate on how being defeatist can be a town tell.
Ugh. Wifom.
Basically, it's an endless line of reveres psychology.
i'll probably incur a daykill for this, but how long do you work at a time AI? it's been 2 days.....
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Sorry, I had to do some last-minute schoolwork as well.
I'll definitely be done reading and I'll have a post up by Friday.
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BS, your giving scum tactics too much credit. scum will do anything to survive. including defeatism. your opinion on our vote is fine, but don't underestimate scum tactics.
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He is not my scum buddy, but in my opinion he is scum. There is no reason for him to be defending me like he is, especially since I was the first one to point suspicion at him on day one.
I think he is stating my innocence so vehemently because he is scum, and he thinks that once I'm lynched and come up town, he'll have earned town points. I know it's WIFOM, but something to think about, none the less.
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yeah, it's possible.
Full claim at the bottom.
Me too.
*ping*
^TOWN.
I'm tempted to agree on EP/shibui. He hasn't actually done any scumhunting that I've seen.
Good analysis.
Simple solution: Chubbz is not the doc.
Nice try.
Interesting vote.
Way to not commit to the wagon.
I disagree, I'm pretty sure most bodyguards are docs who die if their target would be killed. I'm also inclined to believe that Seppel was specifically NK'd.
Gotcha. Why would you have flavor when no one else does?
I think I agree. MH's frustration definitely seems genuine. It is not uncommon for first-timers to give up as townies when it seems as though their efforts are for naught. shibui looks that much scummier for using defeatism as justification for a lynch.
Vote: SGT_Chubbz
I don't think you should have revealed that at this point. But if you are the vig and you have no flavor then I don't see any reason why Chubbz would as Doc. However I don't understand why mafia would have flavor flavor either in that case.
When Zebi claimed no flavor Chubbz says
This basically means that he does have some sort of flavor. Do you think scum would be any different and would have flavor?
Who do you plan on vigging atm?
I think we should be lynching either MH or Chubbz and vigging the other.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I'm not going to say.
I still don't think MH is scum.
If the other power roles would refrain from claiming for no apparent reason, that'd be great.
Aside form that, I do have a single question:
Are you saying you have no flavor in your role then?
I had a reason to claim. I want Chubbz lynched.
That is exactly what I said.
Let me know if you guys have an idea of who the best vig targets are, and I'll figure out what I'm going to do when the time comes.
Chubbz is getting lynched regardless of your claim, it's just a question of when.
I still am not fully convinced of MH being town but Tekno is next best choice. MH's post over here
is certainly possible.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
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While I disagree with AI's methods, saying there's no flavor in his role speaks volumes.
how so? why are you so vehement that i'm not the doc? and for a PR with no investigative role, a touch of flavor puts me down barrel towards your vig awfully fast.
in the beginning, i get hit for wagoning. now i get hit for not wagoning? WTF
i just got the PM, i didn't write it.
defeatism is just as much a newb tactic as a scum tactic. don't be so sure it's automatically one or the other.
someone who doesn't want me dead immediately? amazing
Why? it could be just as easy for him to have a scum vig with flavor and then say he's town vig with no flavor, to kill me, and then still be able to pull off a night kill.
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SGT_Chubbz - 5 (MandersHex, lrd, TeknoLink, shibui, AsianInvasion)
MandersHex - 2 (syrenz, SGT_Chubbz)
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
This. I have, however, made my decision. It's pretty obvious who needs to die when you consider what everyone has contributed to this game.
Not a bad idea. I will certainly reread him and the other player in question before I send off my decision to jerubbaal.
great. well looks like i'm dead.
also if i have 5 votes on me and everyone is so enthralled that my death is a good thing for the town, just get it over with. i don't want to sit around watching this thread for the next however many days waiting for someone to put another vote on me. so either kill or get these votes off me.
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[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
This...I don't know what to say.
Wait...AI, did AK submit a kill Night 1? Something's off here.
This post can be interpreted like this:
"Since you think we are scumbuddies, let's see what happens when MH dies if we're scumbuddies, because I know MH is actually town so we can't be."
I still can't believe that we do have 2 protective roles and that together with everything else means I'm happy with lynching Chubbz now.
Unvote, Vote SGT Chubbz
About the vig target, it really makes very little difference AI as you probably won't be able to kill anyone as you will be roleblocked since you claimed it (unless we get lucky and Chubbz is roleblocker). Best option would have been for us to lynch someone other than Chubbz without you claiming and you could have just vigged him easily. KoZ or Tekno are probably best targets though.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
True, it can't hurt to try.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4798423&postcount=500
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)