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NA: I'm sorry but this 'experiment' is looking horribly flawed to me.
1) Instead of doing what you intended, all you've succeeded in doing is focusing conversation on yourself.
2) Everyone is different. Scum-Calvin would likely not be doing the same thing as scum-Nom Anor.
3) There is no reason for us to fully trust you on what may be a gambit.
4) All that is happening is that you are attacking anyone who has the slightest vestiges of scumminess. You are being confrontational. It looks as if you are trying to act scummy; this not what scum would do as they want to appear townie.
I do not know why you are being so difficult about something that if you think about it won't help.
however much I think he's being idiotic, and has a bad plan, and is stubborn beyond all belief,I think nom is a well intentioned townie. AE however barned me, deflected badly, and has been lurkish and generally incoherent. Vote stands.
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If you're town and you are, from what I can tell, cryptically speaking to a player you believe is scum (I don't know how much support you have for this), why not speak in such a way that your case can be understood by the rest of the town?
I'm in the game, skimming through to get caught up.
TMF has caught my eye on his take of jordman. Looks like a little push for a wagon on a newb. I just came from a game (ongoing) which jordman was epic flailing scum, I'm not getting that at the moment here.
First of many 'getting caugt up' posts. Takes a position on TMF and jordman.
fos Johm for flailing about fos TMT mentioned earlier
I agree with Guardman, a combined claim is bad. Vote Azrael
I'm not seeing Jordman and have to look back on Dancing Mad
Sticks with his positions on TMF and jordman. Some elaboration would be helpful re: Jordman since that seems to be the lynchpin of this. Barns Guardman for a vote on Az instead of pursuing his own trail in any fashion other than an FOS.
'Getting caught up' again, but reiterates his position on jordman. Was jordman even in danger of being lynched at this point? Why do you have such strong feelings on this matter, it being your strongest and most consistent opinion in the game to this point?
Ugh! Hate big posts. Unvote.
got over this illness and have been doing more deer hunting than scum hunting. So much going on I'm at a lose. Reading the DYH/Zind interaction.
Promise for more reading. Apparently not feeling the Az wagon anymore, but no reasons as to why not.
Yes I've neglected this game, I apologies. Will read up and have a post today. I'm getting more townie reads than scummy which is frustrating on my part. I agree that a no lynch is bad but also a fast wagon before the deadline most likely will prove fruitless.
Oh
a coherent post by jordman....awesome.
Dig at jordman, more promise to read up and provide content. Says he's getting more townie reads than scummy, but I don't see how that's possible given very little evidence that he's been reading the game at all. Plus, this comes at a point where he's going to be catching up on the central discussion of the game at that point.
Lets revisit Johm000. This went away and Johms postings have trailed off like hes trying to fade to the background.
Early on had strong feelings on not claiming then will go along with it because hes not afraid of one. Big contradiction here saying it'd be suicide claiming. Thats pretty much in fear of one. Vote Johm000
Feeling Nom Anor is trying to push the no lynch at the ideal time for fear of the deadline could be scum feeling safe behind scaring the town in regards of speed lynches.
All right, no we're getting somewhere. This looks like an actual opinion on somebody that isn't based on his original picks. Not terrible at all. Problem is, he's pretty much parroting DYH and myself about the fearmongering stuff and I think somebody else already mentioned Johm fading back into the woodwork.
Push on Nom with no FOS or anything from our resident king of the FOS, btw.
End of Day One. AE was remarkably uninvolved. Coasting, coasting, coasting. Minimalist positions, and no true pursuit of the guilty.
I don't get why you would say Az's death seems least evil but then say you can't see a townie targeting Az and call out Tek as the killer.
I believe he tried.
Is this you believe Tek tried to kill Az? Right after you call out MMoD for suggesting he did?
Why would you ask this? To get a better game plan for NK's?
Maybe because Guardman beat you to the punch.
Then you must hate TMT's vote on me also. But you said nothing of the barning vote.
Don't like this.
You target Az(which you never say why you chose him) so how can you know someone is in the shadows? I also don't like how he follows Az but Az was in his tent. Kpaca was the one walking around.
MMoD watched Az and saw Gaurdman, Tek and apperently others target Az
Horrible.
This leads me to believe this is why Tek is looking for him, to kill him. If he's not scum he's an SK.
I see Tek trying to fluff together a reason on targeting Az. Doing so after Guardman claims the kill. Now he's in the clear on Az's death and then fabricates a story. Vote TeknoLink
This is better content overall (meaning that it is content, and he's asking questions). I have some trouble with the logic here. He seems convinced Tek targeted Az because he's trying to kill him (ultimately). He accepts that Guardman killed Az (so Tek wasn't killing him), but then suggests Tek is fabricating a story. Why is necessarily lying, AE?
Yes, after seeing what Guardman said I'm going back to read up. I posted 2 days ago. You? Lets see, maybe I should be asking you that question.
Heres your last post. 3 days ago.
and before that.
Yeah your being helpful, and also wiggling your way on this wagon too. Interesting.
Testing those jumping on his wagon. Fine by me, but why no comments directed my way?
How am I deflecting? I don't see how I have anything to deflect. He accuses me of having no content so I call him on it. What defense do I need? He says I've been lurking for days, what has he been doing over those days? So its laughable that I bring up his posting but you don't laugh at him bringing my posting up?
Not seeing anything in this experiment but a way to hop on wagons.
Wanted to look back on him before voting but I don't like the way Nom Anor took the opportune time to jump on my wagon with a very weak excuse. Vote Nom Anor
I'd love to see you put more effort into find scum instead of voting townies with bad ideas. How about this...give me all your lovely reasons for finding Jordman townie and then I'll ask you other stuff.
AE(5): Dancing Mad, Pale Mage, The Motley Fool, Deaths Vampire, Nom Anor
Guardman(1): Some One
Teknolink(1): CP
Carrion Pigeons(1): Teknolink
The Motley Fool(2): Guardman, Descoures
Some One(1): Zindabad
Nom Anor(1): AE
WoD has been contacted. Let me know if anyone else needs a nudge.
@Tek - What made you think Az was likely to be RR over anyone else? Also, you said you didn't realize you had an action last night, but then had to take one. Is this correct?
If you're town and you are, from what I can tell, cryptically speaking to a player you believe is scum (I don't know how much support you have for this), why not speak in such a way that your case can be understood by the rest of the town?
This was "the day after tomorrow." Do you have the "ask meaningless questions to avoid contributing" PR?
Oh, Zindabad is up to something...I'm just certain what yet. Fool might need a necktie.
Yeah, I'm definitely up to something. You will probably guess it before the end of the game.
Good case on AE though.
@dC: I spoke already about AE and find him scummy. My only misgiving is Cubus' Normal where he lurked through the entire game in a similar fashion as town. I still prefer Some One.
Infinis has just come up on my radar - a lot of his posts have been about story material and he may be going along to get along, and TMF was previously looking townie but is slinking down toward neutral. All three are decent leads. I definitely think today's lynch should be someone who was peripheral during the many, many town-on-town battles yesterday.
Richard Rahl is most likely town, else I wouldn't have been given the Townie alignment. Az was one of the guys I couldn't place in Town or Scum, so I tried him.
Wait, wouldn't it have made way more sense for you to have targeted someone you thought was highly likely to be town? I mean, I probably would have picked Azrael if I had that ability as well, but not for the reason you give there. Why would you want to target someone you couldn't get a read on?
Also, I thought I'd get a message that RR was under attack, and then could protect him. I was told this is not the case and that makes this a cruel game of where's Rahldo.
Clarify for me exactly how you thought your role worked before, and when you realized the real way it works. This is important.
This was "the day after tomorrow." Do you have the "ask meaningless questions to avoid contributing" PR?
If the natural course of events doesn't immediately ping something on my radar, I poke around and ask questions in attempt to find something that sticks out to me. It's obvious I haven't paid much attention to this game.
___
When looking at the AE wagon, it just looks to me like he has 1 vote by a good (town) player who has managed to parade around 5 others to agree with him. For example, we can see TMF's obvious barn-vote and how that's really a meaningless contribution to the wagon. Cyan missed Jordman's vote, which is why I said 5, and again, that wasn't such a useful contribution to the wagon. Pretty much, it seems like lesser experienced players and perhaps scum are just serving as an extension of PM's votes, and perhaps, if there are some scum on AE's wagon, it would be an indication that he is town; in other words, noob scum are just feeding off of a confirmed townie's misguidedness.
Richard Rahl is most likely town, else I wouldn't have been given the Townie alignment. Az was one of the guys I couldn't place in Town or Scum, so I tried him.
Also, I thought I'd get a message that RR was under attack, and then could protect him. I was told this is not the case and that makes this a cruel game of where's Rahldo.
I targeted Az because I had to take an action. I was under the impression that I had no night action, but I did, and was informed by the mod. During the night I found out that someone was hiding in the shadows and followed Az. However, my ability told me that Az was not Lord Rahl.
For my ability to have any effect, I need to find Lord Rahl. If I can't find him, I'm just a vanilla townie.
Is your ability compulsory or isn't it?
I barn Dancing Mad...why target somebody you aren't certain is town?
There's nothing clear about that in my role :/ It says that if RR dies, I failed in my mission.
I am not ducking your other question, PM. I have no idea who RR is at the moment and wanted a check on Azrael since I couldn't get a read on him. So I could have gotten lucky and found him.
I've asked you explicitly if you must target somebody at night. I'm not asking if you need to do so in order to locate Richard, I'm asking if you could do nothing if you chose to. Clear?
If there's anything unclear about your role, you should clarify it with the mod immediately. You claimed early under no pressure, and I'm not done poking at you today. In fact, if you're a neutral it's best if you just cop to it right now. I can work with neutrals, but I can't work with liars. This is a limited time offer.
EBWOP: Oh, I almost forgot...way back shortly after once upon a time when the gender claim was on the table...wouldn't that have made it a bit easier for you to find Richard? As I recall, you weren't that hip on the idea.
Honestly I can never read AE. Every game I see him in I think he is scum.
@PM: You really seem to be trying to force this whole RR thing. I can completely believe that Tek might of had some misunderstandings with his role PM. Hell my PM is written pretty good flavorwise, but is as confusing as hell role wise (at first I wasn't even sure I could kill people).
Honestly I can never read AE. Every game I see him in I think he is scum.
@PM: You really seem to be trying to force this whole RR thing. I can completely believe that Tek might of had some misunderstandings with his role PM. Hell my PM is written pretty good flavorwise, but is as confusing as hell role wise (at first I wasn't even sure I could kill people).
Back then, I did not know I had to find Richard, PM. I found out during the night and my ability is compulsary. Also, I'm not neutral, I'm town aligned.
Okay for now. I suggest you ask the mod if you can target him with your ability. Still not happy you brought your win con in this conversation. Your win con should be absolutely clear, even if your abilities aren't.
To keep things fair, here is Azrael's original role PM:
Chase - Town - Woodland Ranger
You are Chase. You have been friends with Richard Rahl since you were children, and you know him to be pure of heart and soul. You dedicated your life to his cause, including following him into this risky gambit. You have no magical abilities, but your skills from growing up in the woodlands have made you an excellent tracker. If you follow a person, they will not know, but you will know of anyone that they interact with.
lol i love what pm is doing but whether I made a contribution to the wagon is at least slightly irrelevant, I believe all the points I have made on AE and until he gets in here and does something coherent to defend himself my vote stands, or unless somone else sets of my scum dar of course :). hmmm pm is def town so is tmf, so is techno, still suspicious of guardboy but AE is moreso.
I'm still getting a genuine feeling from Tek's posts and don't think he's a neutral. Even from my growing-less-limited-daily story knowledge (halfway through Temple of the Winds), a D'Haran like one of the bodyguards or Mord-Sith might conceivably have a wincon that would make them lose if RR goes down regardless of how it comes out for the rest of the world.
I think a full claim from Tek might be a good idea.
At the time of that post, I was basically supporting your drive to put pressure on AE. Since then, he's been put under some pressure and increasingly has seemed more scummy. I voted at first just as a way of forcing AE to interact a bit more, but the discussion that it's provoked has made me want to keep my vote where it is.
zindabad you seem rather tunnel vision on techno and you are starting to slide into my scummy vision, AE is still full of fail at defending himself however.... Vote stands
lol i love what pm is doing but whether I made a contribution to the wagon is at least slightly irrelevant, I believe all the points I have made on AE and until he gets in here and does something coherent to defend himself my vote stands, or unless somone else sets of my scum dar of course :). hmmm pm is def town so is tmf, so is techno, still suspicious of guardboy but AE is moreso.
What am I doing and why do you love it? What is the basis of your suspicion on Guardman?
I'm still getting a genuine feeling from Tek's posts and don't think he's a neutral. Even from my growing-less-limited-daily story knowledge (halfway through Temple of the Winds), a D'Haran like one of the bodyguards or Mord-Sith might conceivably have a wincon that would make them lose if RR goes down regardless of how it comes out for the rest of the world.
I think a full claim from Tek might be a good idea.
Er...why do you want a full claim from Tek if his posts are genuine and you don't think he's a neutral?
At the time of that post, I was basically supporting your drive to put pressure on AE. Since then, he's been put under some pressure and increasingly has seemed more scummy. I voted at first just as a way of forcing AE to interact a bit more, but the discussion that it's provoked has made me want to keep my vote where it is.
How has AE seemed more scummy under pressure? Be specific.
You claimed early under no pressure, and I'm not done poking at you today. In fact, if you're a neutral it's best if you just cop to it right now. I can work with neutrals, but I can't work with liars. This is a limited time offer.
@SO: the wincon in question is the point where Tek *thinks* he loses if RR dies, but isn't sure.
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
At the time of that post, I was basically supporting your drive to put pressure on AE. Since then, he's been put under some pressure and increasingly has seemed more scummy. I voted at first just as a way of forcing AE to interact a bit more, but the discussion that it's provoked has made me want to keep my vote where it is.
I still don't understand why you'd just choose to put some random person under pressure - it's not like we were stagnating either. So basically you were just going along with PM (that's what I get from the posts you've made)?
vote: TMF
Didn't like him before either, but this pushes me over. I didn't really like A_E's case; not enough for me, and TMF's vote on him makes me feel better about A_E and not so much about TMF.
@SO: the wincon in question is the point where Tek *thinks* he loses if RR dies, but isn't sure.
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
Yeah, sorry. Azrael is replacing WoD via mod action.
If you're town and you are, from what I can tell, cryptically speaking to a player you believe is scum (I don't know how much support you have for this), why not speak in such a way that your case can be understood by the rest of the town?
Because if it happens to be right then there is no benefit in everyone knowing. I am not sure that he is scum but he has been behaving oddly toward Tek and as I said the town explanation requires too much trust. I'd love to see him actually give a reason for his vote.
Richard Rahl is most likely town, else I wouldn't have been given the Townie alignment. Az was one of the guys I couldn't place in Town or Scum, so I tried him.
This didn't make any sense to me until your response to DM:
If I can't get a read on someone, that means I want to investigate more. The ability my role has is to see if someone is rahl or not. Since rahl is town, if I found Az to be Rahl, I'd immediatly know to not vote for Az. Whereas before I had no clue.
Which is a twisted way of looking at it but actually makes some sense.
When looking at the AE wagon, it just looks to me like he has 1 vote by a good (town) player who has managed to parade around 5 others to agree with him. For example, we can see TMF's obvious barn-vote and how that's really a meaningless contribution to the wagon. Cyan missed Jordman's vote, which is why I said 5, and again, that wasn't such a useful contribution to the wagon. Pretty much, it seems like lesser experienced players and perhaps scum are just serving as an extension of PM's votes, and perhaps, if there are some scum on AE's wagon, it would be an indication that he is town; in other words, noob scum are just feeding off of a confirmed townie's misguidedness.
Or maybe they are newb townies latching on to a confirmed townie's case? Why are you so quick to brush off the case against AE?
i believe tha the current case on AE is that he has promised multiple rereads, posted no real cotent, and epic level failed at defendin himself in almost any way when all of hese accusations were laayed out against him. Hey I jsut realized azzys back lol ho did he replace again? bilbo?
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
I'm still getting a genuine feeling from Tek's posts and don't think he's a neutral. Even from my growing-less-limited-daily story knowledge (halfway through Temple of the Winds), a D'Haran like one of the bodyguards or Mord-Sith might conceivably have a wincon that would make them lose if RR goes down regardless of how it comes out for the rest of the world.
I think a full claim from Tek might be a good idea.
TotW is the best book IMHO. How can you read up to Temple of the Winds and possibly think that a D'Haran or Mord-Sith needs RR to live? Interesting idea but no.
I doubt there are any neutrals since Shota was townie and she's about as Neutral as they come in the story.
Sorry for the lack of posts, I'll try and do some ISO's this weekend.
But my day 1 links map, votes and implied suspicions. Makes me think DC and DM or WoD and TEK are scumbuddies. But I need to reread so that's just gut read
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Well, I've been thinking about it, and I'm thinking I'm going to give up on may "trying to be like mafia" experiment. I'm still not sure whether or not it is a good idea, but I don't think I was really able to play my part properly, so even if it's a good idea, it doesn't seem to be working out. I may try it at the start of the next game I'm in, but for now I think I'll abandon it.
I am against an AE lynch. I don't find the arguments behind it very compelling, and on top of that, it's AE, who had the same think happen to him or her last game, to be town in the end. I have not gotten a town read on him or her, but I do not think we have enough to go on for an AE lynch to be a good idea.
I'm going to go ahead and say I believe Tek in what he does, at least. I'm not going to say this makes him town, as he could just as easily be some kind of assassin searching for Rahl as an ally(I would presume, I haven't read the books, though), but I can see how he would not realize he is searching for Rahl--my PM was certainly vague.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
@ NA - if you want to try something different, just do it in a basic game. Loran tried a little something different in my basic, and if you sign up again, it'll help make my basic get started quicker
@ pm suspicious of guardman for the more than slightly failish move of killn azzy time number 1 and being rather annoying in gerneral though thats not so much a scum tell, still most suspicious of AE vote stands
Anyway, I've not read any of the books either - although I just might start if the whole damn series doesn't get spoiled on Day One - and I'm as always ok with a softclaim of any type.
Last half of the last sentence is a pretty drastic stance...There's no soft-claim that you wouldn't go for, Zindabad?
Let me just chime in on this: Gender is pretty even from what I remember, with both good guys and bad guys being pretty equally divided between male and female characters. So, I think a gender claim is a good idea. I actually can't think of any downside at all.
...and vote Infinis for being all judgmental.
This is one of the DM posts that fascinates me. The "actually" part is potentially good and terrible at the same time. I think it's good, if I'm reading him correctly.
I would bet that the females out number the males. Mord Sith, Sisters of Light, Sisters of the Dark, Confessors, etc.
I honestly do not see the benefit, since we have no way of knowing which characters are even viable claims. We don't even know if characters from beyond Pillars are used. In the sign up thread the character base was mentioned but not here. And I have to agree with Az that there may be characters who are gender neutral.
So no on the gender claim.
Unvote
Seems pretty emphatic here.
FTR, who were you thinking of as gender neutral, Infinis?
Anyhow, what will we gain from claiming? We know the gender of everyone. What do we lose? Not much. However, gender is something that can be easily lied about so this is in favor of the scum.
On the other hand, you change your mind pretty quickly.
And you don't really have a backing for your sudden change.
Kind of like you're just going with the flow.
Or scum.
Vote:TeknoLink
Agreeing with Nom's analysis here.
Town 7
Azrael -Obv
Guardman - Town Aezwolger
Nom_Anor - Good vibes, good analysis
jordman - Newb town.
Johm000 - Newb town.
Dancing Mad - Seems like an open-book poster, lots of information in each of his posts, lots of genuine thoughts.
Pale Mage(replacing DYH)- Confirmed
Meh 9
Descoures- So far, so good. Nicely analytical.
Carrion Pigeons- No read. Perhaps we should have him claim, and see if he's Manute?
Death's Vampire- He's playing??
Infinis -Hmm.
Teknolink- Hmm
Fixed. He used facts and statistics very well. DYH on the other hand dug himself into a hole with that argument, and then he said well I am right because I say so. With nothing else indicating that he was right, other than a bunch of other people blathering on going DYH is right it isn't a problem. It doesn't even matter who was right or not. What matters is Zin defended his position and had a clear line of attack, while DYH shotgun approached the entire thing and when his weak case for why we have good lynch record was false, he called Zin scum and said he had mentioned this before which he hadn't and he failed to do so when I asked him to timestamp. I know in the end DYH was town, but he overall he was scummy.
1. Zindabad's hyper-aggressiveness may have been rather misguided, but it hasn't felt suspicious to me. Plus I'm WIFOMING him, thinking he wouldn't attack only townies as mafia.
2. Because you're scummy. You avoid personal involvement and hide behind long strings of quote behind people. Plus, you don't feel right.
3. I really don't feel like answering this.
1. The part where you admit you're WIFOMing him is already bad. The first part is pure gut.
2. Assertion means nothing. Last part is pure gut. And what about my 'quote-stringing' is different from every single other game I play?
3. ...you 'don't feel like answering this'. ...right.
FoS: Nom_Anor. I told you I wouldn't excuse you if your answers were bad -- they are. After dodging the question for days, the only answers you have to provide are, essentially, unjustified and glorified gut, with a side order of dodging the 3rd question even further.
Also, provide an example of where I've 'avoided personal involvement', please. Because I'm pretty sure I got fairly 'personally involved' with my case on zindabad, at least.
True, but:
1. Somebody has to try something cool the first time. If you lynch me without letting me do it now, I'll just do it next time. And if I get lynched that time, I'll try it again the time after. And so on, until you people either stop lynching me for trying something new, or it stops being something new because I've done it so often.
2. It's an experiment because it's something that isn't necessarily reliable.
3. Well, I'm someone who has drawn no attention besides for No-Lynch voting yesterday. And there's a large risk in trying such a gambit. And even if it works, there's no reason to believe it will keep me from getting lynched if I act scummy later. So, no, you don't have any reason to trust it. But you also don't have any reason to assume I'm mafia.
1. Have fun with that, then.
2. The experiment not being reliable is a given. The far bigger problem is you not being reliable.
3. Well, now I do.
@dC: I spoke already about AE and find him scummy. My only misgiving is Cubus' Normal where he lurked through the entire game in a similar fashion as town. I still prefer Some One.
Infinis has just come up on my radar - a lot of his posts have been about story material and he may be going along to get along, and TMF was previously looking townie but is slinking down toward neutral. All three are decent leads. I definitely think today's lynch should be someone who was peripheral during the many, many town-on-town battles yesterday.
...I'll accept this for now. You'll excuse me if I don't follow the advice in that last sentence just yet, though.
At the time of that post, I was basically supporting your drive to put pressure on AE. Since then, he's been put under some pressure and increasingly has seemed more scummy. I voted at first just as a way of forcing AE to interact a bit more, but the discussion that it's provoked has made me want to keep my vote where it is.
Translation: 'Hi, I'm plainsightlurking scum riding on other people's reasoning, and being as purposely vague as possible. Please don't lynch me.'
TotW is the best book IMHO. How can you read up to Temple of the Winds and possibly think that a D'Haran or Mord-Sith needs RR to live? Interesting idea but no.
I doubt there are any neutrals since Shota was townie and she's about as Neutral as they come in the story.
Sorry for the lack of posts, I'll try and do some ISO's this weekend.
But my day 1 links map, votes and implied suspicions. Makes me think DC and DM or WoD and TEK are scumbuddies. But I need to reread so that's just gut read
More story speculation?
I'd like you to flesh out those 'gut reads' more, please. I haven't forgotten that horrible vote and unvote from earlier today.
My worries about Zind have to do with his inconsistent statements about the players on the Johm wagon (Jordman?).
I think the argument with DYH is a gigantic theory non-tell.
Johm000 as newb town? Really? I have him as newb scum.
zindabad's inconsistent statements were about your wagon. Are you absolutely sure you're a (to use PM's terminology) white-hat this time round?
Agreed on the theory argument being a non-tell, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, as noted above, Johm000 still needs to die. His latest post is barely there, and makes an insinuation against a confirmed townie, to boot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Sounds like something I'll figure out after reread.
Heh. Fair enough.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
i dunnno bout either o u I kinda get null read from johm he's certainly newby like me hm Sings(newb like me) lol. but honestly I have no idea what side he's on. and about the attacking a confirmed towny thing, godfathers certainly exist he might have better informaiton than we do its worth asking him right?
Private Mod Note
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I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
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PM...?
Actually that one was pretty easy too understand.
Message may not be understood by unintended recipients.
NA: I'm sorry but this 'experiment' is looking horribly flawed to me.
1) Instead of doing what you intended, all you've succeeded in doing is focusing conversation on yourself.
2) Everyone is different. Scum-Calvin would likely not be doing the same thing as scum-Nom Anor.
3) There is no reason for us to fully trust you on what may be a gambit.
4) All that is happening is that you are attacking anyone who has the slightest vestiges of scumminess. You are being confrontational. It looks as if you are trying to act scummy; this not what scum would do as they want to appear townie.
I do not know why you are being so difficult about something that if you think about it won't help.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
If you're town and you are, from what I can tell, cryptically speaking to a player you believe is scum (I don't know how much support you have for this), why not speak in such a way that your case can be understood by the rest of the town?
AE confirms in thread after the game is started. Makes no mention of gender claim, nor does he place a random vote.
First of many 'getting caugt up' posts. Takes a position on TMF and jordman.
Sticks with his positions on TMF and jordman. Some elaboration would be helpful re: Jordman since that seems to be the lynchpin of this. Barns Guardman for a vote on Az instead of pursuing his own trail in any fashion other than an FOS.
This doesn't make sense to me in context. Elaborate?
'Getting caught up' again, but reiterates his position on jordman. Was jordman even in danger of being lynched at this point? Why do you have such strong feelings on this matter, it being your strongest and most consistent opinion in the game to this point?
So you didn't 'get caught up'.
Promise for more reading. Apparently not feeling the Az wagon anymore, but no reasons as to why not.
Dig at jordman, more promise to read up and provide content. Says he's getting more townie reads than scummy, but I don't see how that's possible given very little evidence that he's been reading the game at all. Plus, this comes at a point where he's going to be catching up on the central discussion of the game at that point.
All right, no we're getting somewhere. This looks like an actual opinion on somebody that isn't based on his original picks. Not terrible at all. Problem is, he's pretty much parroting DYH and myself about the fearmongering stuff and I think somebody else already mentioned Johm fading back into the woodwork.
Push on Nom with no FOS or anything from our resident king of the FOS, btw.
End of Day One. AE was remarkably uninvolved. Coasting, coasting, coasting. Minimalist positions, and no true pursuit of the guilty.
Is this you believe Tek tried to kill Az? Right after you call out MMoD for suggesting he did?
This is better content overall (meaning that it is content, and he's asking questions). I have some trouble with the logic here. He seems convinced Tek targeted Az because he's trying to kill him (ultimately). He accepts that Guardman killed Az (so Tek wasn't killing him), but then suggests Tek is fabricating a story. Why is necessarily lying, AE?
Proven wrong, he unvotes, but then doesn't vote the guy he's been suspicious of since the beginning of the game. Why not?
Testing those jumping on his wagon. Fine by me, but why no comments directed my way?
I'd love to see you put more effort into find scum instead of voting townies with bad ideas. How about this...give me all your lovely reasons for finding Jordman townie and then I'll ask you other stuff.
So...you agree? What do you agree with?
Can I lynch you tomorrow if you're wrong? You are so capable of providing solid arguments for voting. Can I see one?
Oh, Zindabad is up to something...I'm just certain what yet. Fool might need a necktie.
Vote Count:
AE(5): Dancing Mad, Pale Mage, The Motley Fool, Deaths Vampire, Nom Anor
Guardman(1): Some One
Teknolink(1): CP
Carrion Pigeons(1): Teknolink
The Motley Fool(2): Guardman, Descoures
Some One(1): Zindabad
Nom Anor(1): AE
WoD has been contacted. Let me know if anyone else needs a nudge.
Oh hey.
This was "tomorrow."
So was this.
This was "the day after tomorrow." Do you have the "ask meaningless questions to avoid contributing" PR?
Yeah, I'm definitely up to something. You will probably guess it before the end of the game.
Good case on AE though.
@dC: I spoke already about AE and find him scummy. My only misgiving is Cubus' Normal where he lurked through the entire game in a similar fashion as town. I still prefer Some One.
Infinis has just come up on my radar - a lot of his posts have been about story material and he may be going along to get along, and TMF was previously looking townie but is slinking down toward neutral. All three are decent leads. I definitely think today's lynch should be someone who was peripheral during the many, many town-on-town battles yesterday.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Wait, wouldn't it have made way more sense for you to have targeted someone you thought was highly likely to be town? I mean, I probably would have picked Azrael if I had that ability as well, but not for the reason you give there. Why would you want to target someone you couldn't get a read on?
Clarify for me exactly how you thought your role worked before, and when you realized the real way it works. This is important.
If the natural course of events doesn't immediately ping something on my radar, I poke around and ask questions in attempt to find something that sticks out to me. It's obvious I haven't paid much attention to this game.
___
When looking at the AE wagon, it just looks to me like he has 1 vote by a good (town) player who has managed to parade around 5 others to agree with him. For example, we can see TMF's obvious barn-vote and how that's really a meaningless contribution to the wagon. Cyan missed Jordman's vote, which is why I said 5, and again, that wasn't such a useful contribution to the wagon. Pretty much, it seems like lesser experienced players and perhaps scum are just serving as an extension of PM's votes, and perhaps, if there are some scum on AE's wagon, it would be an indication that he is town; in other words, noob scum are just feeding off of a confirmed townie's misguidedness.
This only answered one of my questions.
Is your ability compulsory or isn't it?
I barn Dancing Mad...why target somebody you aren't certain is town?
Yes. Yes, I will.
Any clue what happens if you fail to protect Rahl?
Probably? That's the kind of thing that should be very clear. Which is it? Yes or No?
Quit dodging my other question. I don't care if it isn't important, stop ducking it.
I've asked you explicitly if you must target somebody at night. I'm not asking if you need to do so in order to locate Richard, I'm asking if you could do nothing if you chose to. Clear?
If there's anything unclear about your role, you should clarify it with the mod immediately. You claimed early under no pressure, and I'm not done poking at you today. In fact, if you're a neutral it's best if you just cop to it right now. I can work with neutrals, but I can't work with liars. This is a limited time offer.
Because I sense a disturbance in The Force.
@PM: You really seem to be trying to force this whole RR thing. I can completely believe that Tek might of had some misunderstandings with his role PM. Hell my PM is written pretty good flavorwise, but is as confusing as hell role wise (at first I wasn't even sure I could kill people).
Yes, I am forcing it. It's what I do.
Okay for now. I suggest you ask the mod if you can target him with your ability. Still not happy you brought your win con in this conversation. Your win con should be absolutely clear, even if your abilities aren't.
To keep things fair, here is Azrael's original role PM:
Chase - Town - Woodland Ranger
You are Chase. You have been friends with Richard Rahl since you were children, and you know him to be pure of heart and soul. You dedicated your life to his cause, including following him into this risky gambit. You have no magical abilities, but your skills from growing up in the woodlands have made you an excellent tracker. If you follow a person, they will not know, but you will know of anyone that they interact with.
Can I shoot Az again?
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
*Back in Black*
:mad1:
:deathclaw:
So instead of getting a result for N1, Cyan just let me get a death notification, so I've got nothing useful to share from that. I targeted AE.
Catching up in a bit, approve of PM's case on AE, happy to pick up where I left off.
Unvote Vote MMoD
I think a full claim from Tek might be a good idea.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
EBWODP: MMoD's a watcher, Az was a tracker.
Good to know you're town though.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
At the time of that post, I was basically supporting your drive to put pressure on AE. Since then, he's been put under some pressure and increasingly has seemed more scummy. I voted at first just as a way of forcing AE to interact a bit more, but the discussion that it's provoked has made me want to keep my vote where it is.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
What am I doing and why do you love it? What is the basis of your suspicion on Guardman?
Oh, I hope you're wearing a white hat.
Er...why do you want a full claim from Tek if his posts are genuine and you don't think he's a neutral?
How has AE seemed more scummy under pressure? Be specific.
*TL claims town allignment*
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
vote: TMF
Didn't like him before either, but this pushes me over. I didn't really like A_E's case; not enough for me, and TMF's vote on him makes me feel better about A_E and not so much about TMF.
@D_V: what zind said.
Yeah, sorry. Azrael is replacing WoD via mod action.
Because if it happens to be right then there is no benefit in everyone knowing. I am not sure that he is scum but he has been behaving oddly toward Tek and as I said the town explanation requires too much trust. I'd love to see him actually give a reason for his vote.
I'd like to see a response to this.
This didn't make any sense to me until your response to DM:
Which is a twisted way of looking at it but actually makes some sense.
Or maybe they are newb townies latching on to a confirmed townie's case? Why are you so quick to brush off the case against AE?
I'm not sure what you read because what I read didn't call for any facepalming.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Someone not happy to see me back again?
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
TotW is the best book IMHO. How can you read up to Temple of the Winds and possibly think that a D'Haran or Mord-Sith needs RR to live? Interesting idea but no.
I doubt there are any neutrals since Shota was townie and she's about as Neutral as they come in the story.
Sorry for the lack of posts, I'll try and do some ISO's this weekend.
But my day 1 links map, votes and implied suspicions. Makes me think DC and DM or WoD and TEK are scumbuddies. But I need to reread so that's just gut read
12-11? I'm losing track
I am against an AE lynch. I don't find the arguments behind it very compelling, and on top of that, it's AE, who had the same think happen to him or her last game, to be town in the end. I have not gotten a town read on him or her, but I do not think we have enough to go on for an AE lynch to be a good idea.
I'm going to go ahead and say I believe Tek in what he does, at least. I'm not going to say this makes him town, as he could just as easily be some kind of assassin searching for Rahl as an ally(I would presume, I haven't read the books, though), but I can see how he would not realize he is searching for Rahl--my PM was certainly vague.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Last half of the last sentence is a pretty drastic stance...There's no soft-claim that you wouldn't go for, Zindabad?
How about a third-letter claim?
This is one of the DM posts that fascinates me. The "actually" part is potentially good and terrible at the same time. I think it's good, if I'm reading him correctly.
Early disclosure's likely a town tell.
Ever since Blind Mafia 2, I'm always skeptical when people raise issues like "the spirit of the game", or "gaming the mod".
Seems pretty emphatic here.
FTR, who were you thinking of as gender neutral, Infinis?
Agreeing with Nom's analysis here.
Town 7
Azrael -Obv
Guardman - Town Aezwolger
Nom_Anor - Good vibes, good analysis
jordman - Newb town.
Johm000 - Newb town.
Dancing Mad - Seems like an open-book poster, lots of information in each of his posts, lots of genuine thoughts.
Pale Mage(replacing DYH)- Confirmed
Meh 9
Descoures- So far, so good. Nicely analytical.
Carrion Pigeons- No read. Perhaps we should have him claim, and see if he's Manute?
Death's Vampire- He's playing??
Infinis -Hmm.
Teknolink- Hmm
Nothing yet on these guys:
mysterymeatofdoom
Calvin
Some One
The Motley Fool
Untown 2
zindabad -Sketchy thougth process.
Archmage Eternal - Eeeeeeeeeeeevil.
I know right? I forgot he was playing too.
Fixed. He used facts and statistics very well. DYH on the other hand dug himself into a hole with that argument, and then he said well I am right because I say so. With nothing else indicating that he was right, other than a bunch of other people blathering on going DYH is right it isn't a problem. It doesn't even matter who was right or not. What matters is Zin defended his position and had a clear line of attack, while DYH shotgun approached the entire thing and when his weak case for why we have good lynch record was false, he called Zin scum and said he had mentioned this before which he hadn't and he failed to do so when I asked him to timestamp. I know in the end DYH was town, but he overall he was scummy.
Unvote Alright a tracker and a watcher.
I think the argument with DYH is a gigantic theory non-tell.
1. The part where you admit you're WIFOMing him is already bad. The first part is pure gut.
2. Assertion means nothing. Last part is pure gut. And what about my 'quote-stringing' is different from every single other game I play?
3. ...you 'don't feel like answering this'. ...right.
FoS: Nom_Anor. I told you I wouldn't excuse you if your answers were bad -- they are. After dodging the question for days, the only answers you have to provide are, essentially, unjustified and glorified gut, with a side order of dodging the 3rd question even further.
Also, provide an example of where I've 'avoided personal involvement', please. Because I'm pretty sure I got fairly 'personally involved' with my case on zindabad, at least.
1. Have fun with that, then.
2. The experiment not being reliable is a given. The far bigger problem is you not being reliable.
3. Well, now I do.
@zindabad
...I'll accept this for now. You'll excuse me if I don't follow the advice in that last sentence just yet, though.
@The Motley Fool
Translation: 'Hi, I'm plainsightlurking scum riding on other people's reasoning, and being as purposely vague as possible. Please don't lynch me.'
Die, please.
@Infinis
More story speculation?
I'd like you to flesh out those 'gut reads' more, please. I haven't forgotten that horrible vote and unvote from earlier today.
@Azrael
Johm000 as newb town? Really? I have him as newb scum.
zindabad's inconsistent statements were about your wagon. Are you absolutely sure you're a (to use PM's terminology) white-hat this time round?
Agreed on the theory argument being a non-tell, though.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, as noted above, Johm000 still needs to die. His latest post is barely there, and makes an insinuation against a confirmed townie, to boot.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
*glances back at his last post*
Yes, although I can't remember why just this moment...
I believe it had something to do with him being genuinely bad, rather than insincere and bad.
Let me check my role PM.
...
Oh! Ok. I'm supposed to be playing for that team.
Yeah, Zindabad's totally town.
How does that jive with his recent lurky and contentless play?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Heh. Fair enough.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys