Except, as Rian pointed out, Johm was talking about a wagon other than his own in the second case, which is even MORE of a town tell.
How does that change my point? If you don't agree with it, say why but there is no difference. All you said was that my point is invalid and that is even more of a town tell for him. Not really much I can say to that.
You tried too hard on this one, and got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Yeah, sure. You're entirely too convinced about things y'know.
That last bit is particularly defensive(in a scummy fashion).
Yes, very defensive. How exactly? Nobody saw what I was driving at and of course you were so convinced that I was scum that you go and say that I must have messed up but then oh when a moment later you're proven wrong does that dissuade you in the slightest? No, of course not.
And Zindabad, nice job early wagoning me.I' mischaracterizing stuff? Really? Explain how the fact that Johm was commenting on Jordman mean anything? My freaking point was that he was using a behaviour that was called by Cyan as very townie and then oh, look he does it again. How does the fact the second instance was against Jordman mean anything? Cyan's all like "Oh that makes it even more townie" but of course he doesn't explain anything about how my point is invalid and then you're like "Oh, Skander you're characterizing Johm the second time wasn't against himself it was against Jordman" Yeah guess what, I know that. How does that change anything? It's the exact same move. How do you people get off saying my point is invalid by pointing out that he was addressing two different people> How does that freaking change anything??? Yeah, and you're reaction to my asking why your vote wasn't on Johm was to vote yourself. Very townie that. Of course you weren't shirking your voting responsibility by brushing it off to a joke. No, of course not.
Google seems to indicate that the previously unknown "moobwap" appears to indicate one's disregard for another player's long-windedness, rather than what I surmised it meant, to wit, "to strike another in a manner producing the sound 'wap' with one's man-breasts." Which, needless to say, would be rather unpleasant.
Funny, I thought moobwap meant the same thing the first time I saw it.
However, for someone who expressed displeasure at not being addressed directly,
Nope, never 'expressed displeasure'. Cute spin, though, sugarlips.
you have done the same to me,
No U isn't a valid response, nor does it justify your behaviour before I typed 'moobwap' (which is about as deep as my doing has done)
and neither have you answered the questions I politely posed to you, Rihannanalannoran. What exactly failed to inspire confidence? And what, exactly, does that mean, anyway? What indication does it hold for my alignment?
You didn't *start* this game talking this way, so I'm guessing you're choosing to long-arm us via long-winded +/or confusing language, like you're doing here, where you ask me to 'exactly' explain what I mean by failing to inspire confidence. I find your behaviour untrustworthy, + your play designed to confuse.
If you never say what you mean, it would make anyone wonder if you mean what you do say.
Like this. You say IF, but you're painting *me* in a shade best reserved for *yourself*.
as may have been noted in other gaes my opinion of people swings rather quickly ur good fer now in my book ced, give it a few seconds :P.
Unvote vote cyan
dude, u are reaching after this skander case hard, if we lynch him and he is town you shall follow him closely. (at least if I have anything to say about it.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I don't get how you can say the bolded part + still think a name claim is worth anything. + if arim has a history of providing scum with false claims, then this kind of thinkingis a dead end.
A good name claim is a good name claim. I didn't say it remotely likely that Haley is a mod-provided false-claim. Merely that it's possible. Of course we shouldn't go clearing people based on name claims, but Haley as a claim is a definite point in Tilde's favor until we have evidence otherwise. Which we don't.
As CP pointed out, Haley is pretty much the perfect claim. She is probably town, but she always a chance she could be scum.
Now this means Tilde either:
a) didn't lie, is Haley and probably town looking like scum;
b) lied, is not Haley and should be lynched today.
I personally think the name claim without anything else isn't good enough to change my mind, so I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.
This is foolish. Firstly because Haley could be scum, and you've presented a serious false dichotomy. Secondly because regardless of what could be, acting on unlikely and unsupported possibilities out of fear is nothing but pure bad play. Haley as a claim is very likely to be a town role; the possibility that she might not be is not a point against Tilde in any way, shape, or form.
You're sounding like you're threatening me from even looking in your direction. Huh. I wasn't aware being called out to voice an opinion in mafia was offensive to you.
This is a mini. A wagon is whenever there is anything even remotely serious on the parts of the voters that keep on stacking up.
I disagree with every sentence in this quote longer than 4 words. The shorter ones are fine.
I thought only scums are interested in knowing who the likeliest town members are, to like kill them off when no one is looking.
And I thought that finding out the likeliest scum members is at the forefront of every town's mind and here you are, proposing otherwise?
You're gaming the mod rather than discussing behaviors. And you used said mod-gaming to clear a claim. You must be very certain then.
If we do not make arrangements for someone specific to hammer, then the scum will have nearly absolute control over it. This is a major problem that we need to consider and adapt to, considering how items work in this game. If you think deciding who the most likely town members are is a poor way of going about it, (and why would you think that?) then what is a good way of doing so?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm suspicious of Carrion Pigeons. He's basically meh'd a lot of the pushes so far this game, and hasn't really offered alternatives.
No disagreement. I think the pushes have so far been on people for no reasons other than stock scumtells and habit. When a case comes up that actually has a real chance of going to a lynch, I promise not to "meh" at it.
carrion pigeons – Scummy. In post 104, he’s wanting to just abandon the current argument without making any comment on it. Smacks of a deflection attempt.
Deflection from what? From a boring exchange of "You!" "No, you!" "No, you!" for two pages? I'll deflect from that all day.
I'm thinking CP is pretty detached from scum-hunting overall and prefers to discuss technical details. Doesn't seem like a town's mindset at all.
Any particular evidence of this? About the only things I can think of that I've done so far this game have been to express suspicion of you, defend Tilde, and try to get the town's focus on not being led by the nose by the scum to a situation where the scum have (or have access to) every item in the game. Any technical details I've discussed aren't coming to mind.
You play a very good townie, and deserve congratulations for that. I'm just astounded at how well you do at acting townie in this game, compared to...let's say, any other game I've played with you. Is this a mark of improved playskill, or just a sign that you're easy to read?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
First off, as I think if I have a vote it's probably still back in randoms, unvote
Quote from rian »
I must have missed this, but meh is right. There are like 115 posts between this last post + your previous post. Join the game, dude.
Trust me, I'm doing what I can. Tomorrow I have a choir concert at a book store, wednesday I have to help a lady with dog agility, thursday I have youth, friday I have FNM, saturday there's casual mtg, sunday is free, but yeah. I have to make the schedule work.
---------------
I just don't see the issue with Skander. He's defending himself against everything asked of him, maybe I just don't see something that everyone else sees.
Zindabad's only questionable moment has been the roleplaying, but it's a null tell, so he's fine for now.
Cyan is normal aggressive Cyan. Meh.
Riana seems very town, providing well thought out opinions.
jordman seems n00b town, but I've seen n00b town-ish people who are actually n00b scum, so staying wary seems fair.
Carrion at this point seems like he's eager to defend himself over points that don't actually require input. Also a pretty lame reason to vote someone.
Ced's posts seem well thought out, defending points against him well.
Tilde's claim I can't really comment on, I haven't read OOTS so I don't know the significance of it.
Dagger I haven't seen a ton from, but also seems to provide fair points.
Bilbo hasn't posted a lot and didn't post anything significant that I distinctly remember, so also meh.
No note on J0hm, eh? Guess that was part of the 'not a ton' that went on.
Arguing that you have a schedule is weak sauce. I got a schedule, too. If you let a game slide, + let a game slide, + let a game slide, Oh, you're 115 posts behind.
I would appreciate it if you could clarify your position on Carrion Pidgey, your blurb is rather vague.
First off, as I think if I have a vote it's probably still back in randoms, unvote
Trust me, I'm doing what I can. Tomorrow I have a choir concert at a book store, wednesday I have to help a lady with dog agility, thursday I have youth, friday I have FNM, saturday there's casual mtg, sunday is free, but yeah. I have to make the schedule work.
---------------
I just don't see the issue with Skander. He's defending himself against everything asked of him, maybe I just don't see something that everyone else sees.
Zindabad's only questionable moment has been the roleplaying, but it's a null tell, so he's fine for now.
Cyan is normal aggressive Cyan. Meh.
Riana seems very town, providing well thought out opinions.
jordman seems n00b town, but I've seen n00b town-ish people who are actually n00b scum, so staying wary seems fair.
Carrion at this point seems like he's eager to defend himself over points that don't actually require input. Also a pretty lame reason to vote someone.
Ced's posts seem well thought out, defending points against him well.
Tilde's claim I can't really comment on, I haven't read OOTS so I don't know the significance of it.
Dagger I haven't seen a ton from, but also seems to provide fair points.
Bilbo hasn't posted a lot and didn't post anything significant that I distinctly remember, so also meh.
That being said, vote: Carrion pidgeons
I don't see how you can NOT see the case on Skander. If you said you understand it but disagree, that would be one thing. But the points against him are particularly obvious.
There are a distressing number of people who are just extracting their opinions from other people. We've had a bunch of these "write a short blurb on every player" posts and almost all of them are plagiarized from Tilde.
Don't be sheeps![/Puzzle]
Anyway, with 5 people putting me on the top of their scumdar, I'll ask if people want me to claim or not. Ahem:
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
CP seems extremely worried about a scum getting the hammer vote in and thus having the pick of any potential items the lynchee might have. Can't say I disagree with that line of logic, since it's basically the same thing I did as scum in Points. But he's overreacting I think. Contrary to Cyan's insistence of Johm being town, it's too early in the game to be 100% safely convinced of any given player's townieness.
It reads like fearmongering, trying to get the town to be indecisive as to who should hammer, as opposed to actually scum hunting. Let's face it, we don't know who's going to pull the trigger day 1, and trying to set that up and enforce it is just making the game stall.
I don't agree. 168 was scummy, but his actions towards Zinda earlier feels like he had good intentions.
Bull. His actions there were blatant scum opportunism. He saw someone acting in an abnormal fashion and went after them, on no real basis. Nevermind that, the last time Zindabad faked some RPing, he was town.
I'd like a better read first. Your last few posts read null to me, and you answered the concerns, and started doing what you were accused of not doing.
What, praytell, did I start doing that I was accused of not doing, and in what world is that a point in in my favor, regardless?
It reads like fearmongering, trying to get the town to be indecisive as to who should hammer, as opposed to actually scum hunting. Let's face it, we don't know who's going to pull the trigger day 1, and trying to set that up and enforce it is just making the game stall.
Establishing someone as the designated "hammer-er" will make it harder for the scum to disguise at least half of their attempts to control who has items. Even in the worst case, where we accidentally name a scum, it reduces the scum's control because it will mean that any items they get by hammering will all be owned by the same person, and thus the scum's ability to use those items together will be limited (per rule 3 of the rules supplement in post 2). In the case where we appoint a townie, it forces the scum to either give up half their access to items, or else out themselves to hammer contrary to the town's will.
Not only that, but it gives focus to the town's night action users without outing power roles. The designated hammer-er will be a prime target for nightkilling, which increases the chances that the scum won't be able to afford to hunt the cop/doc/whoever else while leaving a role alive they know for sure has access to potentially game-breaking items. He's also a target for both investigations and for doc protections, among other things, which means that the more focus he attracts to himself, the more likely he is to be confirmed with night actions as either a good lynch target himself, or confirmed town. All without exposing power roles unnecessarily.
There's always a downside to setting up a situation where a cop wants to target the same person the scum want to kill, because it forces the cop into a WIFOM situation, but the fact that we're creating a situation where the scum have to choose between killing players for cop/doc-hunting reasons and killing people who might be completely harmless minus potentially game-breaking items they may have, easily makes up for it.
In short, we have a chance to put control of a highly volatile aspect of the game in the hands of someone we can hold accountable for it, rather than let it bounce into the hands of whoever happens to feel like hammering at the right moment. It isn't a chance we should squander.
Now, on to your accusation: I am not fearmongering, because the word implies that I'm trying to get people to make a hasty and irreversible decision. I am instead trying to promote discussion on a topic that is in no way anti-town (specifically, who people think is the most likely town player). As for promoting indecision and trying to stall the game, I guess your argument is that anything but making cases and voting is not moving the game forward? If so, I disagree. If not, you'll have to explain.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Yeah, you wish I'm going to claim just because you decided that you want to know my role.
God, the 'indigant town' aspect of this post is soooo forced that it is almost painful to read.
And anyway, every player in the game has an interest in knowing the role of every other player in the game. Regardless of alignment. It's part of the game.
Nice try though.
Can someone else please just vote Skander so that we can hear his fake claim and get on with lynching him?
So, CP's reasoning behind a "designated hammerer" is that one person would be held accountable for any items that the hammerer obtains via lynches. The hammerer will also possibly draw a lot of night actions without outing power roles, thus helping confirm/condemn that player.
Problem) Anyone can transfer any or all items that they possess to another character(s) at night.
Problem) The fact the PK'er only gets to pick ONE item. Any others the victim might have are RFG. If we pick a player unfamiliar with the comic as the hammerer, they might not realize if something is important or not if they get a multiple choice.
Problem) Self Hammerers. I did not want to bring this up on the off chance the scum hadn't realized it yet, but considering who I think are scum, more than likely they've already thought of this. If a player hammers himself, presumably any items they had are gone for good. If the scum started the game with really important townie items, and a scum gets into trouble? Guarantee they'll do this just to keep stuff out of the town's hands.
Problem) We don't know what roles/abilities the scum have. IF they have a watcher ability and by your example:
He's also a target for both investigations and for doc protections, among other things, which means that the more focus he attracts to himself, the more likely he is to be confirmed with night actions as either a good lynch target himself, or confirmed town.
The scum may have just found the town cop, doc and watcher. All without wasting their kill, because a scum's not going to aim for that player unless they're SURE the kill would go through and/or they're absolutely desperate to kill that player.
If the items aspect of the game is as volatile as you say it is, trying to set up a long term control scheme is simply not going to work.
But, since you're proposing it CP, and bearing in mind that you, Cyan and Johm000 are the primary suspects on my scum list... (which means I'm probably not going to like your suggestion)
Who would YOU suggest to be the designated hammerer?
God, the 'indigant town' aspect of this post is soooo forced that it is almost painful to read.
And anyway, every player in the game has an interest in knowing the role of every other player in the game. Regardless of alignment. It's part of the game.
Nice try though.
Can someone else please just vote Skander so that we can hear his fake claim and get on with lynching him?
tilde I am a complete comic fanatic and I would love to get the item off whoever is lynched, providing its not me of course I know the power :).
Uhh.. Isn't the general rule to vote for someone else?
Also, about missing Johm in my last post, I dunno why - I must have skipped over him in the player list. He's neutral, not the best play but not someone I'd want to lynch right now.
@Cyan I don't see the case on Skander. I considered switching my vote, but I just don't see what was so scummy except for maybe one or two posts. I do know however that your play seems pretty much the same in every game and I think you do get tunnel vision a lot - annoying when you're the one being focused on.
You acknowledge that he's scummy, but..what? Not enough so to vote? It's Day 1, what exactly are you looking for before you're willing to vote someone?
I've never been scum with Cyan before. That'd be interesting. But I'm holding up Johm as the best person to hammer, and the most likely town player.
That's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.
In any case, Tilde, your list of problems are not problems with my plan, but with the game in general, with the exception of the last one. Yes, a scum watcher would be a serious downside to my plan, but if that's the best objection you can come up with, when we don't even have a reason to think there might be a scum watcher in the first place, then your opposition is pretty weak.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
View Post
Just a question to the town in general; how do people feel about people who can't remember where their vote was?
I don't think that it means all that much.
But, a question for you: What do you feel about it?
Also, why did you ask this question? (I can see what occured to begin this thought, but why did you ask rather than just say what you think?)
I could only remember two other times it had happened, once with a newer town player + once with careless scum. So while I was feeling it a null-tell, thought I'd ask. Zebi clearly hadn't put any time into the game, so him forgetting his last post was also an unvote at least scanned, but C_P unvoting DYH before voting Skander was just flat out weird. So I thought I'd ask.
That's 5 votes for Skander(Zindabad is voting Skander now, not himself anymore).
Ah, yeah, I missed his vote. Fixed the above vote count.
Also, in light of recent discussion, I feel obligated to issue a rules clarification in regards to taking items from lynched players. Due to poor wording on my part, the rules as written suggest that if a player casts the lynching vote on himself, he will count as his own killer and thus his items will be lost. A player cannot actually kill himself via lynch, however - their killer in those circumstances is always the last other player to vote for them. Ordinarily, that will also be the lynching vote, but should a player vote himself over the lynch threshold, his killer will be the second to last voter instead.
That's 5 votes for Skander(Zindabad is voting Skander now, not himself anymore).
Time to claim.
This is bull. This whole wagon is bull and you know it. But good job convincing the sheep to jump on the wagon. God Cyan said skander is scummy so it must be true. Let's all vote him to see what he says.
I really have no interest in claiming because this wagon is crap but I know that if I don't Cyan will convince the little sheepies to wagon me all the way to a lynch.
I am Vaarsuvius. I am an Elf. My gender is unknown.
I have 4 one-shot spells prepared:
1. I become untargetable for tonight
2. I RB a player tonight and following day
3. Cast on an item I have and the next person to use the item will explode.
4. target player has to target a player I choose tonight with any actions they were using.
I also have an item:
Scroll of Haste
One-shot target player can use extra ability tonight.
Don't even try to blame this crappy wagon on me. I did nothing wrong.
So you pretty much just claimed 'Scum JoAT'(all of those abilities are abilities you normally see on a scum, except the item-exploding one, which still has scummy undertones).
Flavorwise, your character is morally ambiguous at best, and is a flat-out bad guy for awhile in the series.
So you pretty much just claimed 'Scum JoAT'(all of those abilities are abilities you normally see on a scum, except the item-exploding one, which still has scummy undertones).
Flavorwise, your character is morally ambiguous at best, and is a flat-out bad guy for awhile in the series.
The flavor bit is obviously not the relevant factor. Skander acted thoroughly scummy, whether he wants to admit it or not. And his claim doesn't save him. That = lynching time.
This is bull. This whole wagon is bull and you know it. But good job convincing the sheep to jump on the wagon. God Cyan said skander is scummy so it must be true. Let's all vote him to see what he says.
I somehow have missed the wagon on you. Can I get a summary?
I really have no interest in claiming because this wagon is crap but I know that if I don't Cyan will convince the little sheepies to wagon me all the way to a lynch.
uh... duh?
I am Vaarsuvius. I am an Elf. My gender is unknown.
I have 4 one-shot spells prepared:
1. I become untargetable for tonight
2. I RB a player tonight and following day
3. Cast on an item I have and the next person to use the item will explode.
4. target player has to target a player I choose tonight with any actions they were using.
I also have an item:
Scroll of Haste
One-shot target player can use extra ability tonight.
Don't even try to blame this crappy wagon on me. I did nothing wrong.
Invisibility, Hold Person, Explosive Runes, and Control person. V's fave spells of all time.
Obviously the claim could be real. That doesn't stop V from being scum.
V always has the best of intentions when doing things. Soul Splice to save his family. He's looking for the ultimate arcane power to save the world. There would be no reason for V to be scum.
It was a figure of speech..those aren't JoAT abilities anyway(well, the RB is).
It's a multi-role that has abilities(other than the item, which I don't think was initially assigned to that role) that are all associated with scum roles. Hence, a 'scum Joat'.
A JoaT is defined as having several single-use abilities. Just because they're not the standard JoaT ability list (cop, doc, vig and roleblock), doesn't make him scum.
So again I ask you, would you care to post some game examples of a non-town JoaT type role?
I get annoyed when being attacked, what can I do?
How does that change my point? If you don't agree with it, say why but there is no difference. All you said was that my point is invalid and that is even more of a town tell for him. Not really much I can say to that.
Yeah, sure. You're entirely too convinced about things y'know.
Yes, very defensive. How exactly? Nobody saw what I was driving at and of course you were so convinced that I was scum that you go and say that I must have messed up but then oh when a moment later you're proven wrong does that dissuade you in the slightest? No, of course not.
And Zindabad, nice job early wagoning me.I' mischaracterizing stuff? Really? Explain how the fact that Johm was commenting on Jordman mean anything? My freaking point was that he was using a behaviour that was called by Cyan as very townie and then oh, look he does it again. How does the fact the second instance was against Jordman mean anything? Cyan's all like "Oh that makes it even more townie" but of course he doesn't explain anything about how my point is invalid and then you're like "Oh, Skander you're characterizing Johm the second time wasn't against himself it was against Jordman" Yeah guess what, I know that. How does that change anything? It's the exact same move. How do you people get off saying my point is invalid by pointing out that he was addressing two different people> How does that freaking change anything??? Yeah, and you're reaction to my asking why your vote wasn't on Johm was to vote yourself. Very townie that. Of course you weren't shirking your voting responsibility by brushing it off to a joke. No, of course not.
I'm going to read over the last little bit in a while, but it doesn't look like a ton has happened from my skim.
Sign up for League of Legends!
Nope, never 'expressed displeasure'. Cute spin, though, sugarlips. No U isn't a valid response, nor does it justify your behaviour before I typed 'moobwap' (which is about as deep as my doing has done) You didn't *start* this game talking this way, so I'm guessing you're choosing to long-arm us via long-winded +/or confusing language, like you're doing here, where you ask me to 'exactly' explain what I mean by failing to inspire confidence. I find your behaviour untrustworthy, + your play designed to confuse.
Like this. You say IF, but you're painting *me* in a shade best reserved for *yourself*.
To whit, good sir yadda yadda vote:zindabad
Unvote
vote cyan
dude, u are reaching after this skander case hard, if we lynch him and he is town you shall follow him closely. (at least if I have anything to say about it.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
A good name claim is a good name claim. I didn't say it remotely likely that Haley is a mod-provided false-claim. Merely that it's possible. Of course we shouldn't go clearing people based on name claims, but Haley as a claim is a definite point in Tilde's favor until we have evidence otherwise. Which we don't.
This is foolish. Firstly because Haley could be scum, and you've presented a serious false dichotomy. Secondly because regardless of what could be, acting on unlikely and unsupported possibilities out of fear is nothing but pure bad play. Haley as a claim is very likely to be a town role; the possibility that she might not be is not a point against Tilde in any way, shape, or form.
I disagree with every sentence in this quote longer than 4 words. The shorter ones are fine.
If we do not make arrangements for someone specific to hammer, then the scum will have nearly absolute control over it. This is a major problem that we need to consider and adapt to, considering how items work in this game. If you think deciding who the most likely town members are is a poor way of going about it, (and why would you think that?) then what is a good way of doing so?
[more coming as I finish the thread]
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
No disagreement. I think the pushes have so far been on people for no reasons other than stock scumtells and habit. When a case comes up that actually has a real chance of going to a lynch, I promise not to "meh" at it.
Deflection from what? From a boring exchange of "You!" "No, you!" "No, you!" for two pages? I'll deflect from that all day.
Any particular evidence of this? About the only things I can think of that I've done so far this game have been to express suspicion of you, defend Tilde, and try to get the town's focus on not being led by the nose by the scum to a situation where the scum have (or have access to) every item in the game. Any technical details I've discussed aren't coming to mind.
You play a very good townie, and deserve congratulations for that. I'm just astounded at how well you do at acting townie in this game, compared to...let's say, any other game I've played with you. Is this a mark of improved playskill, or just a sign that you're easy to read?
Why say stuff like this? Honestly.
And lastly, I'm going to blatantly barn the Skander case because I'm liking where it's going.[/lantern-hanging]
Unvote DYH, Vote Skander
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Trust me, I'm doing what I can. Tomorrow I have a choir concert at a book store, wednesday I have to help a lady with dog agility, thursday I have youth, friday I have FNM, saturday there's casual mtg, sunday is free, but yeah. I have to make the schedule work.
---------------
I just don't see the issue with Skander. He's defending himself against everything asked of him, maybe I just don't see something that everyone else sees.
Zindabad's only questionable moment has been the roleplaying, but it's a null tell, so he's fine for now.
Cyan is normal aggressive Cyan. Meh.
Riana seems very town, providing well thought out opinions.
jordman seems n00b town, but I've seen n00b town-ish people who are actually n00b scum, so staying wary seems fair.
Carrion at this point seems like he's eager to defend himself over points that don't actually require input. Also a pretty lame reason to vote someone.
Ced's posts seem well thought out, defending points against him well.
Tilde's claim I can't really comment on, I haven't read OOTS so I don't know the significance of it.
Dagger I haven't seen a ton from, but also seems to provide fair points.
Bilbo hasn't posted a lot and didn't post anything significant that I distinctly remember, so also meh.
That being said, vote: Carrion pidgeons
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Arguing that you have a schedule is weak sauce. I got a schedule, too. If you let a game slide, + let a game slide, + let a game slide, Oh, you're 115 posts behind.
I would appreciate it if you could clarify your position on Carrion Pidgey, your blurb is rather vague.
I don't see how you can NOT see the case on Skander. If you said you understand it but disagree, that would be one thing. But the points against him are particularly obvious.
Maybe you just don't want to vote him.
Voting CP seems pretty ridiculous.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Don't be sheeps![/Puzzle]
Anyway, with 5 people putting me on the top of their scumdar, I'll ask if people want me to claim or not. Ahem:
Do people want me to claim, or not?
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Skander (3) - Cyan, Zindabad, CP
Zindabad (2) - Skander, rianalnn
carrionpigeons (2) - Dagger, Zebi
Johm000 (1) - ~Tilde~
~Tilde~ (1) - Johm000
Cyan (1) - Jordman
Not voting (2) - ced395, Bilbroxain
CP seems extremely worried about a scum getting the hammer vote in and thus having the pick of any potential items the lynchee might have. Can't say I disagree with that line of logic, since it's basically the same thing I did as scum in Points. But he's overreacting I think. Contrary to Cyan's insistence of Johm being town, it's too early in the game to be 100% safely convinced of any given player's townieness.
It reads like fearmongering, trying to get the town to be indecisive as to who should hammer, as opposed to actually scum hunting. Let's face it, we don't know who's going to pull the trigger day 1, and trying to set that up and enforce it is just making the game stall.
Unvote, Vote carrionpigeons
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Skander was ridiculously scummy in that exchange with me. If you can't see this, look again.
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Bull. His actions there were blatant scum opportunism. He saw someone acting in an abnormal fashion and went after them, on no real basis. Nevermind that, the last time Zindabad faked some RPing, he was town.
More pressure should be put on Skander.
unvote vote skander
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
What, praytell, did I start doing that I was accused of not doing, and in what world is that a point in in my favor, regardless?
Establishing someone as the designated "hammer-er" will make it harder for the scum to disguise at least half of their attempts to control who has items. Even in the worst case, where we accidentally name a scum, it reduces the scum's control because it will mean that any items they get by hammering will all be owned by the same person, and thus the scum's ability to use those items together will be limited (per rule 3 of the rules supplement in post 2). In the case where we appoint a townie, it forces the scum to either give up half their access to items, or else out themselves to hammer contrary to the town's will.
Not only that, but it gives focus to the town's night action users without outing power roles. The designated hammer-er will be a prime target for nightkilling, which increases the chances that the scum won't be able to afford to hunt the cop/doc/whoever else while leaving a role alive they know for sure has access to potentially game-breaking items. He's also a target for both investigations and for doc protections, among other things, which means that the more focus he attracts to himself, the more likely he is to be confirmed with night actions as either a good lynch target himself, or confirmed town. All without exposing power roles unnecessarily.
There's always a downside to setting up a situation where a cop wants to target the same person the scum want to kill, because it forces the cop into a WIFOM situation, but the fact that we're creating a situation where the scum have to choose between killing players for cop/doc-hunting reasons and killing people who might be completely harmless minus potentially game-breaking items they may have, easily makes up for it.
In short, we have a chance to put control of a highly volatile aspect of the game in the hands of someone we can hold accountable for it, rather than let it bounce into the hands of whoever happens to feel like hammering at the right moment. It isn't a chance we should squander.
Now, on to your accusation: I am not fearmongering, because the word implies that I'm trying to get people to make a hasty and irreversible decision. I am instead trying to promote discussion on a topic that is in no way anti-town (specifically, who people think is the most likely town player). As for promoting indecision and trying to stall the game, I guess your argument is that anything but making cases and voting is not moving the game forward? If so, I disagree. If not, you'll have to explain.
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I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Yeah, you wish I'm going to claim just because you decided that you want to know my role.
God, the 'indigant town' aspect of this post is soooo forced that it is almost painful to read.
And anyway, every player in the game has an interest in knowing the role of every other player in the game. Regardless of alignment. It's part of the game.
Nice try though.
Can someone else please just vote Skander so that we can hear his fake claim and get on with lynching him?
Problem) Anyone can transfer any or all items that they possess to another character(s) at night.
Problem) The fact the PK'er only gets to pick ONE item. Any others the victim might have are RFG. If we pick a player unfamiliar with the comic as the hammerer, they might not realize if something is important or not if they get a multiple choice.
Problem) Self Hammerers. I did not want to bring this up on the off chance the scum hadn't realized it yet, but considering who I think are scum, more than likely they've already thought of this. If a player hammers himself, presumably any items they had are gone for good. If the scum started the game with really important townie items, and a scum gets into trouble? Guarantee they'll do this just to keep stuff out of the town's hands.
Problem) We don't know what roles/abilities the scum have. IF they have a watcher ability and by your example:
The scum may have just found the town cop, doc and watcher. All without wasting their kill, because a scum's not going to aim for that player unless they're SURE the kill would go through and/or they're absolutely desperate to kill that player.
If the items aspect of the game is as volatile as you say it is, trying to set up a long term control scheme is simply not going to work.
But, since you're proposing it CP, and bearing in mind that you, Cyan and Johm000 are the primary suspects on my scum list... (which means I'm probably not going to like your suggestion)
Who would YOU suggest to be the designated hammerer?
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
Uhh.. Isn't the general rule to vote for someone else?
Also, about missing Johm in my last post, I dunno why - I must have skipped over him in the player list. He's neutral, not the best play but not someone I'd want to lynch right now.
@Cyan I don't see the case on Skander. I considered switching my vote, but I just don't see what was so scummy except for maybe one or two posts. I do know however that your play seems pretty much the same in every game and I think you do get tunnel vision a lot - annoying when you're the one being focused on.
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You acknowledge that he's scummy, but..what? Not enough so to vote? It's Day 1, what exactly are you looking for before you're willing to vote someone?
2 carrion pigeons - Dagger, ~Tilde~
2 zindabad - Skander, rianalnn
1 ~Tilde~ - Johm000
3 Not Voting - Bilbroxain, ced395, Zebi
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Dagger and Johm000 have each gone four days without posting, so they are being prodded.
That's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.
In any case, Tilde, your list of problems are not problems with my plan, but with the game in general, with the exception of the last one. Yes, a scum watcher would be a serious downside to my plan, but if that's the best objection you can come up with, when we don't even have a reason to think there might be a scum watcher in the first place, then your opposition is pretty weak.
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Sigh. I'm having trouble deciding if this more likely ignorance or an effort to suck up.
That's normal.
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Will be back then.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
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I could only remember two other times it had happened, once with a newer town player + once with careless scum. So while I was feeling it a null-tell, thought I'd ask. Zebi clearly hadn't put any time into the game, so him forgetting his last post was also an unvote at least scanned, but C_P unvoting DYH before voting Skander was just flat out weird. So I thought I'd ask.
Time to claim.
Ah, yeah, I missed his vote. Fixed the above vote count.
Also, in light of recent discussion, I feel obligated to issue a rules clarification in regards to taking items from lynched players. Due to poor wording on my part, the rules as written suggest that if a player casts the lynching vote on himself, he will count as his own killer and thus his items will be lost. A player cannot actually kill himself via lynch, however - their killer in those circumstances is always the last other player to vote for them. Ordinarily, that will also be the lynching vote, but should a player vote himself over the lynch threshold, his killer will be the second to last voter instead.
I will update the rules to clarify this point.
This is bull. This whole wagon is bull and you know it. But good job convincing the sheep to jump on the wagon. God Cyan said skander is scummy so it must be true. Let's all vote him to see what he says.
I really have no interest in claiming because this wagon is crap but I know that if I don't Cyan will convince the little sheepies to wagon me all the way to a lynch.
I am Vaarsuvius. I am an Elf. My gender is unknown.
I have 4 one-shot spells prepared:
1. I become untargetable for tonight
2. I RB a player tonight and following day
3. Cast on an item I have and the next person to use the item will explode.
4. target player has to target a player I choose tonight with any actions they were using.
I also have an item:
Scroll of Haste
One-shot target player can use extra ability tonight.
Don't even try to blame this crappy wagon on me. I did nothing wrong.
Flavorwise, your character is morally ambiguous at best, and is a flat-out bad guy for awhile in the series.
Vote stands.
Wow, was so not expecting this [/deadpan].
I somehow have missed the wagon on you. Can I get a summary?
uh... duh?
Invisibility, Hold Person, Explosive Runes, and Control person. V's fave spells of all time.
I believe this claim. I will not vote Skander.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
V always has the best of intentions when doing things. Soul Splice to save his family. He's looking for the ultimate arcane power to save the world. There would be no reason for V to be scum.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
B)Flavor does not trump thoroughly scummy behavior.
What thoroughly scummy behavior? I have noticed none.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
OK. Would you be kind enough to give game examples of a 'scum JoaT', because I can't recall any instance of a JoaT role being non-town.
Agreed. Skander's town in my book.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
It's a multi-role that has abilities(other than the item, which I don't think was initially assigned to that role) that are all associated with scum roles. Hence, a 'scum Joat'.
So again I ask you, would you care to post some game examples of a non-town JoaT type role?
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.