I'm surprised to see so many people suddenly jumping on the Some One bandwagon after the holiday, particularly when the fingers were previously pointed elsewhere right before the holiday.
I'm surprised to see so many people suddenly jumping on the Some One bandwagon after the holiday, particularly when the fingers were previously pointed elsewhere right before the holiday.
You do realize that the holiday gave people time to re-read everything? What is shocking about that?
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this is just a brief initial response - i cant go back and quote things, re-read, or look up the sited posts because of the slow internet... and i dont have a shift key
Continuing my rereads. I currently have little reason to be suspicious of Roja, so if I reread him at all he'll be at the bottom of my list. I reread GT/Axelrod and overall I feel my earlier points against GT are still valid but they're not strong enough to lynch Axelrod over and there's been almost nothing new to add to a scum case since Axelrod replaced. I'm not interested in persuing that avenue.
i definitely agree with this
The points against DYH are good, but his responses have been reasonable. He has seemingly changed his mind quite a bit, but there has been reasonable basis for him to do so. I'm not going to vote for DYH at this time. Unless I've missed someone, that leaves Yare and Some One. I will still reread Yare, but unless I see something really bad in his posts I will be happy with a Vote: Some One
now that dd mafia has ended - we can talk about it - but as i was saying before, akids behavior as scum seems to be something that cant be gauged either way - like he always acts differently as town or scum. that being said, i do find it interesting for dyh to try to classify akids behavior by saying its obvious when hes scum when it seems as though nothing is obvious with akid.
Some One has spent the whole game doing little other than sitting firmly on the fence, and making useless metagame arguments. The few times he has taken a strong stance, he ends up reversing his position with little or no basis.
at the same time you call it scummy, it could be looked at as what it is, in actuality - noobish uncertainty. look at dd mafia - i was town there and did very much the same thing. i must admit i played terribly there because i had no idea what was going on - who was town and who was scum. on that note, i barned all day, had little unique thought, and my play there very much parallels my play here. i would say i even played scummier over there, at least from my perspective.
Overall, SomeOne has flopped back and forth about AH and never provided any real justification for attacking him.
i still really dont like his post where he voted for sop...
@SO: You're gauging AKid's play off one game where he was scum; I've played/read games with him where that's been the case in several. I stopped reading DD after I died, so I'll have to take a look at what you're getting at, but are you insinuating he simply lurked through the game and bandwagon voted (which is his typical town behavior)?
at the same time you call it scummy, it could be looked at as what it is, in actuality - noobish uncertainty.
Sure, as could absolutely any scummy play made by a newer player. The noob card is not a free pass, it's a mitigating factor when a case is weak.
Since you are so fond of metagming, I'll point out a couple things. In my opinion, your performance in Harry Potter as town was much more town-like. When you made comments or prompted other players for information, it was regarding in-game events, not metagame analysis. You took much more firm and aggressive stances and had much fewer changes of heart. I was not suspicious of you at all that game.
More importantly, in your first game of mafia (Newbie #20, Alice Mafia) what did you - as mafia - do when put under pressure for your behavior? You repeatedly claimed it was due to being a newbie.
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Since you are so fond of metagming, I'll point out a couple things. In my opinion, your performance in Harry Potter as town was much more town-like. When you made comments or prompted other players for information, it was regarding in-game events, not metagame analysis. You took much more firm and aggressive stances and had much fewer changes of heart. I was not suspicious of you at all that game.
i very much so liked my play during that game - it was helluva lot more solid there than here or dd, for example
More importantly, in your first game of mafia (Newbie #20, Alice Mafia) what did you - as mafia - do when put under pressure for your behavior? You repeatedly claimed it was due to being a newbie.
and that's what i did in dd mafia when i claimed very early and overreacted in response to pressure...and in berzerk when i overreacted to pressure - i was townie in both berserk and dd
i don't want to pull the noob card like that, i don't want to be that noob but it needs to be done. what saved me in dd and berzerk was the fact the town rightfully believed my truthful claim - at least till the end in dd when tmt prevailed - i am outta luck here because of the open setup, sadly. dyh was with me in berzerk - he knew my reluctance to state my views, my overall uncertainty and willingnessto barn, and etc.
at dyh - akid was scum in both dd and this game and some noob game as of recently - his behavior in all 3 was far from the same, at least as far as i can tell
More importantly, in your first game of mafia (Newbie #20, Alice Mafia) what did you - as mafia - do when put under pressure for your behavior? You repeatedly claimed it was due to being a newbie.
Being as I was also in Alice Mafia WITH Someone, I tell myself: Can somoene learn what NOT to do as it didn't work for them in the past?
I mean pulling the Noob card isn't going to get him any points in his favor and he should realize this. To me it makes me wonder if he isn't trying to cover up a mafia role becuase he has already went down this path before.
Some one comming up town in DD mafia (where he also posted the similar "you'll be sorry when i'll come up town" post.) Also is giving him another "point" in "why would he be mafia"?
Kraj, Even after these two facts do you still feel that strong about Some one as you did earlier? It's a slope I cannot grasp.
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Some one comming up town in DD mafia (where he also posted the similar "you'll be sorry when i'll come up town" post.) Also is giving him another "point" in "why would he be mafia"?
Kraj, Even after these two facts do you still feel that strong about Some one as you did earlier? It's a slope I cannot grasp.
Nothing has changed my feelings on Some One. My vote is based on his behavior in this game, not on metagaming. I put very little stock into metagaming, especially when it is very generalized. He was the one to bring past behavior up in his defense; I simply followed suit to show past behavior that supports my position.
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Based upon what I see here, it seems Kraj is the only who claims to have done any rereading (maybe I missed some).
Yes but your orginal statement has you "shocked" that people would turn onto Someone after the break. I was more wondering who you thought was turning for more then what they say.
[QUOTE=myself]Some one comming up town in DD mafia (where he also posted the similar "you'll be sorry when i'll come up town" post.) Also is giving him another "point" in "why would he be mafia"?
In Doomsday Mafia Some one was in the same sorta situation he is in here in this game. And in both games around the same time he posted two semi exact messages:
I'm on vacation now and won't be back until next week. I really don't want to spend my vacation inside defending myself, especially if I'll end up lynched anyway.
When I flip town, it will become increasingly apparent that DYH and AH are scum.
The bolded part is what I am mostly talking about. Doomsday mafia is overwith and SO was infact a townie. I guess I shouldn't let outside "information" influance my views however it is what is making me question if he is mafia. Granted I didn't read DD mafia well enough, I just noticed that it finished and that SO was the last lynch and that he posted a message just like the one above.
Nothing has changed my feelings on Some One. My vote is based on his behavior in this game, not on metagaming. I put very little stock into metagaming, especially when it is very generalized. He was the one to bring past behavior up in his defense; I simply followed suit to show past behavior that supports my position.
Very well, I cannot argue with that really. I know I have tried to get info from him to help me feel beter that he isn't scum, but you are right his behavior isn't something that is town friendly. I just don't want to believe it I guess. I dono this game has me doubting everyone and I would like to hear more from everyone again before we go and lynch someone.
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I simply followed suit to show past behavior that supports my position.
and there's plenty of past behavior that supports my position of being town - the same indecisiveness/scummy behavior i have here i had in berzerk and in dd
im a very indecisive person by nature, always looking at details and drowning myself in uncertainty and i have to admit its something i need to get beyond if im ever to succeed
Based upon what I see here, it seems Kraj is the only who claims to have done any rereading (maybe I missed some).
I'm wondering when you're going to post anything of substance again?
Just about everything you've posted over the last month has been one-liners and a blanket statement to say, "Hey, I'll vote for any of the following people: (list)". I recall you doing a bit of this in day one, too, since I commented on it when you attacked AK for his lack of contribution.
I've already read through this game about three times; I don't have any desire to do it again, nor do I feel the need, but I would like you to start pulling your weight. I feel like it's just me, Roja, and Kraj really contributing as of late, with occasional commentary from Axelrod and Some One. Abandon Hope really needs to step it up, too, especially given how I feel about him anyway.
The bolded part is what I am mostly talking about. Doomsday mafia is overwith and SO was infact a townie. I guess I shouldn't let outside "information" influance my views however it is what is making me question if he is mafia. Granted I didn't read DD mafia well enough, I just noticed that it finished and that SO was the last lynch and that he posted a message just like the one above.
Ah. Well like I said, I don't put much stock into things like this. I used to, but I got burned over and over. For example, in my very first game (Mushroom kingdom normal) atlseal was mafia godfather. On day 1 the town was about to lynch scum who made a lousy claim. atlseal chimed in with a "nail in the coffin" type post, saying he knew for a fact the claim was false. In another game (Medieval mini), he made the exact same type of post but as town.
and there's plenty of past behavior that supports my position of being town - the same indecisiveness/scummy behavior i have here i had in berzerk and in dd
But not in Harry Potter. Indecisiveness is not a town tell for you whatsoever if you sometimes are not indecisive as town.
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I feel like it's just me, Roja, and Kraj really contributing as of late, with occasional commentary from Axelrod and Some One. Abandon Hope really needs to step it up, too, especially given how I feel about him anyway.
And Spot, cannot forget about Spot.
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But not in Harry Potter. Indecisiveness is not a town tell for you whatsoever if you sometimes are not indecisive as town.
but look at how much i said - i'm hermione vanilla town
i was indecisive at times during that game - like my sudden jump on chimp, for example, but other than that, there was still a good amount of barning - and things were much more clear in that game - for example, cpe and dagger needed to be lynched for some pretty obvious reasons - and reasons that obvious haven't existed in this game. yes, the cpe lynch was wrong, but he was just playing so scummy
I'm on vacation now and won't be back until next week. I really don't want to spend my vacation inside defending myself, especially if I'll end up lynched anyway.
When I flip town, it will become increasingly apparent that DYH and AH are scum.
Awesome. Suicidal, self righteous, and refusing to comment. I'll exacerbate that. Unvote, Vote: some one. I'm still not OK with Spot. Especially how he shut up just as soon as interest passed. But someone is valid too. I especially like how many non vote votes he's received. What is this? World Domination?
Quote from Yare »
I'm surprised to see so many people suddenly jumping on the Some One bandwagon after the holiday, particularly when the fingers were previously pointed elsewhere right before the holiday.
Awesome. Suicidal, self righteous, and refusing to comment. I'll exacerbate that. Unvote, Vote: some one. I'm still not OK with Spot. Especially how he shut up just as soon as interest passed. But someone is valid too. I especially like how many non vote votes he's received. What is this? World Domination?Subtle.
When, exactly, do you return from vacation? Because all these little comments that don't have anything to do with the points against you are just getting annoying.
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Because all these little comments that don't have anything to do with the points against you are just getting annoying.
So when AH just blatantly barned the wagon, I shouldn't discuss that at all? I, along with some others, are suspicious of him and his last post helps solidify my current view of him. He takes my post saying I'll be away as a "refusal to comment" which it isn't for the very reason stated in the post of mine that he quoted.
So when AH just blatantly barned the wagon, I shouldn't discuss that at all? I, along with some others, are suspicious of him and his last post helps solidify my current view of him. He takes my post saying I'll be away as a "refusal to comment" which it isn't for the very reason stated in the post of mine that he quoted.
Your defense right now of all of your actions is because you are on vacation.
You are currently posting reguarly which is making it seem like you HAVE time to post.
Which is making it seem you have the time to provide a defense however you are just hiding because there isn't one.
Believe me Someone, some one would catch the barning of AH (Or an OMGUS depending on how you wanna look at it..) .. Bravo to you, however I think it would be wise for you to enjoy your Vaca so when you are back you are refeshed and ready to answer the questions/points against you.
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Your defense right now of all of your actions is because you are on vacation.
You are currently posting reguarly which is making it seem like you HAVE time to post.
Which is making it seem you have the time to provide a defense however you are just hiding because there isn't one.
Believe me Someone, some one would catch the barning of AH (Or an OMGUS depending on how you wanna look at it..) .. Bravo to you, however I think it would be wise for you to enjoy your Vaca so when you are back you are refeshed and ready to answer the questions/points against you.
This is good advice.
Im withholding further comment on AH or SO until after the weekend (and said post takes place).
I said something along these lines earlier, but it bears repeating - there are three scum left in this game. Three.
There are only 8 players living.
Each of us is looking at a group of seven. If you can rule out just 1 or two people from that group, then the odds of hitting scum go way, way up.
No one is looking at Roja, yes? I certainly haven't heard it if you are. If you aren't, then you are looking at a group of 6 and you've got 50-50 odds just by flipping a coin.
I'm excusing spotofprey because his claim makes him not Mafia under all but the most convoluted of circumstances. Yes, he might be SK (and playing a most dangerous game with the lying about Bus Driving Targets), but that seems unlikely to me.
This leaves:
DYH
Some One
Yare
AH
Kraj
With 3 very likely scum in this group. This should be like shooting fish in a barrell!
I know it's not really. Frankly, the trick at the moment for me is trying to figure out who out of Some One, Yare, and AH looks the least scummy. Kraj could also be scum, but if he is, we probably lose anyway regardless of what we do, so I don't think I'm going to stress too much about that possibility right now.
DYH is still scum (almost certain).
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Yes, I could. I could barn so hard... The problem with barning is that it allows people to take action based on someone else's thought process. That isn't happening here. I've thought you've been acting suspicious for a while, and said so. So not a barn, more of an attempt to get something accomplished.
Quote from Roja »
Is this some sort of joke/sarcasm?
Kinda. I'm comparing people's reluctance to vote here to a game where you couldn't take votes back. That was ridiculous, and so is this.
I've switched to an earlier flight - the weather is crap, so I'm leaving for the airport now.
One thing that came to my mind is the fact that as of recently, you can see I've taken a firm stance on AH. For all of Kraj's points to be 100% valid and totally in favor of me being scum, I would have to have unvoted AH the point at which he or the "town's consensus" began to favor DYH more than AH. I have not done this and have established my stance that AH is scum, despite the fact that Kraj so clearly feels otherwise. This stance was established before Kraj posted his case against me, so it's not like I took a stance in response to him posting a case against me citing the main issues as not taking a stance and fence-sitting - I had this firm stance already.
I'm not saying discuss his targets AT ALL - I'm just saying he should have discussed Akid's scumminess given he felt Kraj was town and intended on bussing the town's 2 greatest power roles.
Realistically, what he did was fine, and there's really no need for further discussion because it's just harping on a non-mafiosos past. In other words, we should probably get to lynching AH, Vote AH .
No argument, no firm stance, just a we should "probably" go lynch the guy that everyone has been suspicious of all game but who hasn't even had a real case made against him.
I see what you mean regarding AH, but I want to do a read of him and see how far the "wouldn't make sense as scum" really could potentially go.
You see what I mean, which is that AH has done about the same amount of things that don't make sense as scum as he's done scummy things, and want to reread. That's certainly not firmly saying AH is scum.
He plays extremely analytically day one. He has his early game vote, and his vote on RafK (both were town). However, his one and only vote since that time, came in that post 614. What I don't like is how sharply it constrasts from his previous play style because it used faulty logic to arrive at the vote of a player Axel made us realize is more likely than not town. That being said, I think it's a little too much to say that AH's behavior makes no sense as scum because his day 1 behavior is incredible for scum in the way it contained a thorough understanding of the game of mafia combined with entirely reasonable votes that just so happened to be on townies.
The point I am getting at is that AH day 1 seems like an entirely different person than the AH who made post 614, and that being said, if he is scum, that post has been his only slip thus far. Note how logical he acts, argues, etc. day 1, and then how this one post containing his 3rd vote of the game contains more faulty and inaccurate logic than non-faulty logic.
The stance in this post is pretty clearly: "AH's behavior makes some sense as scum." That's not firmly saying AH is scum.
So perhaps you'd like to point out where you took this firm stance?
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I didn't unvote in response to yours and others' uncertainty in regards to his scumminess; I stuck to my guns in this particular case.
No argument, no firm stance, just a we should "probably" go lynch the guy that everyone has been suspicious of all game but who hasn't even had a real case made against him.
You site me for flip-flopping throughout the game, but when I actually take a stance, you criticize it. I'm certainly not the only one voting AH, and that being said, I'm not the only one who needs to address the reasons for voting for him if in fact you are questioning the wagon as a whole. Others have stated their own reasons for voting for him, and my extreme dislike of the post where he voted SoP is what I added to the pool of "reasons AH looks worthy of a lynch." You disagree with my analysis of this post and my stance regarding AH, but I didn't drop this position as I may have done previously.
I said something along these lines earlier, but it bears repeating - there are three scum left in this game. Three.
There are only 8 players living.
Each of us is looking at a group of seven. If you can rule out just 1 or two people from that group, then the odds of hitting scum go way, way up.
No one is looking at Roja, yes? I certainly haven't heard it if you are. If you aren't, then you are looking at a group of 6 and you've got 50-50 odds just by flipping a coin.
I'm excusing spotofprey because his claim makes him not Mafia under all but the most convoluted of circumstances. Yes, he might be SK (and playing a most dangerous game with the lying about Bus Driving Targets), but that seems unlikely to me.
This leaves:
DYH
Some One
Yare
AH
Kraj
With 3 very likely scum in this group. This should be like shooting fish in a barrell!
I know it's not really. Frankly, the trick at the moment for me is trying to figure out who out of Some One, Yare, and AH looks the least scummy. Kraj could also be scum, but if he is, we probably lose anyway regardless of what we do, so I don't think I'm going to stress too much about that possibility right now.
DYH is still scum (almost certain).
My only comment is that you are speaking in wierd methods, you speak in both personal and what the group should think. And I find it amusing how you are not included in the list of who people should suspect. However if this is your thought process I would also say that Kraj being scum worrys me as well.
There are 3 scum on two sides.. if Someone is on one of those two sides would Kraj be on the other? Just thinking outloud.
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@Suth: Can we get a prod/replacement for Spot? I think it's been awhile since Yare showed up, too.
I still feel that AH is more likely scum than SO. The connection to AK is the primary reason, but his short quips and doubt-sowing at SoP are scummy, too. As if he's trying to limit the number of "likely townies" in existence. I postulated earlier that I don't think SO is the SK for his lack of understanding game mechanics, and I still feel that way. AH could be either (mafia/sk), frankly, given his behavior, so I'd prefer to lynch him.
Yes, I've prodded them both. I'd really appreciate, guys, if I didn't have to prod so many people. That's 3 in the past week alone.
Also, activity has mostly picked up, but this day has gone on too long, so I'm putting a deadline up. The day will end January 23rd, at 9:00 PM MST. If no majority has been reached by then, the day will end in a nolynch.
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Level 1 Judge
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Considering this day started on November 21, I feel like we should be able to pick someone by now. I also think that not lynching someone we think is suspicious today is really bad for the town.
I think Some One should be lynched. I'm waiting for him to give his detailed response to my case when he returns, which ought to be any minute now as he said he returned home yesterday.
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I'll make this point re: Some One. His ability is "Unkillable." This is a good ability - if he's town. To the point where - if he's town - the scum get screwed over with one more down. His ability also, as has been pointed out, potentially combo's with the Bus Driver and can act as a pseudo Doc. For this reason, I imagine the scum would very much like to see him lynched - if he's town.
DYH, on the other hand, has no useful potential ability. He has a negative ability.
The point being this: if you are on the fence, feel ambivilent, think there's close to the same chances of each of them being scum, then DYH is a better choice for this reason alone.
This does not mean I don't think Some One can be scum here - including SK type scum. Just that I'm certain DYH is the better choice at this moment.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm sure that's an oversight on your part that you didn't include Abandon Hope and/or Yare at all in that conversation, right? Considering you're the only person who's voted me, it's not like people are "on the fence" between just me and SO. It's more like they're on the fence between a lot of people inclusive of SO recently. That was a pretty poor post, Axel.
I'm sure that's an oversight on your part that you didn't include Abandon Hope and/or Yare at all in that conversation, right? Considering you're the only person who's voted me, it's not like people are "on the fence" between just me and SO. It's more like they're on the fence between a lot of people inclusive of SO recently. That was a pretty poor post, Axel.
I get the sense that most people think you are at least somewhat suspect (and when I say "somewhat" I mean "somewhat higher than average"). Maybe I'm wrong about that, people are certainly free to say so.
You can't be surprised that I am lobbying for you out of all the other possibilities.
Frankly, if we are looking in the group of
DYH
Some One
Yare
Abandon Hope
Then I think we are looking in the right place. But I also think we've got, at best, one more chance to miss, and (obviously) not everyone in that group is scum.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Regarding AH:
Early on his choice for Crazed Fiending is AH (post 303).
Correct
In 305 he explains why: AH has been actively lurky, going as far as to say that even if AH is town his death with be a positive thing.
This is a little bit of a strawman. I said, "If he is town, yeah, the town got a real scummy lurker out of the way without turning the game to night." It would certainly be positive that we'd eliminate a scummy lurker without turning the game to night. I never said it was good to lose a townie, but it's better to lose a townie to a crazed fiend than a lynch.
This is already bad...
Is it, now?
...but in post 350 he says "It's understood attacking the inactive players is going to get you absolutely no where"
Hey, it's ringing true! What have my recent thoughts of AH gotten me? Answer: nothing.
...in post 392 he says that he is against Raf's lynch because Axelrod was actually his preferred target, despite never giving any indication of that whatsoever and constantly harping on AHand then in post 398 he says that shooting AH based on this criteria would have been a bad thing because so many players were lurking. Nevertheless, he will turn around and push suspicion onto AH in post 463 even though he repeatedly admitted his only criteria for wanting AH dead is no longer valid.
Really, really awful noob play. I can't even believe myself that I'm actually town...and expect you all to even possibly believe me given I can't believe myself. Yes, I realize this does nothing at all to help convince you I am somehow town, but there's no legitimate explanation for it. My mind was on a million other things because this came before I went to Atlantic City and needed to make up a bunch of work beforehand - classes, tests, and labs - but realistically I cannot possibly think of any way to respond to this horrendous series of posts.
At the start of Day 2, his first action is to resume attacks on AH, who happens to be the only living player to be wagoned day 1, based on the connection to AK Loran pointed out. He later will vote SoP, but as that wagon flounders he defaults back to AH based on the fact that AH's argument that Spot would bus a mafia buddy is ridiculous.
I'm still very weary of AH because of his case against SpotofPrey.
In 797 he says "I have a very difficult time saying anyone has been acting scummier than AH has". But the one and only thing he has given as evidence of AH's scumminess is the case on Spot. In 803 he defaults back to a metagame argument.
AH did act very scummy and 803 contains a bit more than a mere metagame argument.
Overall, SomeOne has flopped back and forth about AH and never provided any real justification for attacking him.
Currently, there is real justification out there for why I am currently attacking him. On that note, just because you find him town for it despite the fact I find him scum for it means that I have finally stuck my vote somewhere despite your disagreement with my decision.
Regarding Raf:
In post 392 he says Raf is town and he is opposed to Raf's lynch.
Correct.
Reason is basically because Axelrod was his pick for being shot. Understands the points against Raf but thinks Yare is scum for making a case on him. Also is suspicious of Spot.
Correct...LOL
Roja finds it suspicious that Some One doesn't have a problem with Raf's actions; SO responds with deflection: 'if you don't like Raf's actions, then attack him, not me'. In post 441, he now is explicitly on the fence about Raf. Two posts later, he says no one who supported AH being CF'd should be under suspicion (I haven't a clue why) and that Raf is scum. No real reasoning to explain the change of heart. Doesn't want to vote yet, though. Prompts others to make their stances known while keeping his own close to the vest.
Epic fail, much?
It's the whole vacation thing, I'm telling you. Too much...@ Atlantic City...
In 463 he pushes Raf's wagon and tosses suspicion onto AH, whom he had been defending. In 482 and 487, he now makes posts defending Raf, which he will later claim was simply playing Devil's Advocate. In 500 he points out that he has not voted Raf, which Raf points out is scummy since SO has been pushing for Raf's lynch. In 529 he claims to have strong views that don't need to be heard yet. With Raf at -1 to lynch, in post 529 he now makes his "strong views" known, which is that Raf is scum. He later hammers.
Overall, SomeOne took a strong stance that Raf was town, then took no stance at all while everyone else made their decision, then took a strong stance that Raf was scum.
My play was absolutely deplorable. I initially thought there must be some way to analyze this and attempt to show everyone I am actually town, but there really is no way to do so - it's just so stupidly scummy, how come no one came along and said "dude, you can't defend yourself against this, it's just impossible" and it would have saved a couple days of IRL time. At the very least it was a good learning experience, and given the supreme power of my role I should have definitely played a whole lot better.
In post 621 he makes his first assessment of Spot day 2, which is that there is "no way" SoP is scum because mafia Spot would bus mafia AK. In 627 he says atacking Spot based solely on the belief that he's lying is WIFOM and stupid; yet the only reason he so firmly believes Spot is not mafia is his belief that Spot is telling the truth. In 710 he goes out of his way to reiterate he does not support Spot's lynch.
Certainly not amongst the stronger points. I'd like to look at it that I knew SoP was town, but I didn't fully understand why exactly I felt that way.
He returns to Loran being "onto something" with his 'AH is scum because of AK's actions' theory. I really dislike how he uses Loran for street cred here. Lo and behold, in post 717 Some One now thinks Spot is the SK despite being recently admant against his lynch and never even considering the possibility of an SK spot previously. In 743, the wagon on Spot is floundering an he defaults back to AH. In 778 he reiterates that Spot could be SK, but in 795 he now says Spot's actions are "fine".
More retarded fail.
Overall, SomeOne was against Spot's wagon until it looked like Spot might be lynched. Then he jumped on it, and jumped off again as soon as it was clear Spot wasn't getting lynched.
I guess you can say until today I placed no value on my individual opinion. I looked at my vote as meaningless and purposeless. I'm not about to convince you, Kraj, that anyone who I think is scum is actually scum if you don't think they are (AH for example). Likewise, I guess one could say I just tried way too hard to fit in and look as town as possible, but ultimately ended up looking scummier than all scum.
Individually scummy stuff:
SomeOne has commented on other people's arguments, but the only original analysis he has offered is metagaming-based comments, and without even noting specific behavior. Metagaming may be useful when you can identify a specific behavior a player makes as scum or town and then compare, but all SomeOne's comments are general "playing different" or "playing the same" comparissons.
Unfortunately...
Despite being very lurky (the offense he attacked AH for over and over) he basically ignored AK early on, saying he's always scummy. (post 355) In post 495 he's supicious of AK, but that's about all he says about him until AK bites back circa post 535. His push on AK is really weak, as is AK's push on him. In my opinion, the whole exchange looks a lot more like distancing than genuine pressure from either of them.
Or just that Akid succeeded in posthumously setting up a mislynch in the way he dealt with me...just like what CC did in DD mafia.
Twice, in post 400 and in post 525, Roja has put pressure on Some One and his response was deflection.
Not really deflection in either of those, at least as far as I can tell.
Post 576 - Wants to know all night actions. Doesn't know if that info should actually be revealed, but "opening it for discussion".
Again, a feeble attempt to blend in coincident with the thought that my opinions, viewpoints, and perspectives are all meaningless when they stand next to another player such as those of you, DYH, etc.
Post 582 - Says everyone without an accounted night action must be scum (which is dumb and he later retracts this, claiming he didn't read the setup correctly). Conviently, AH is in this group.
Well, it was retracted because of Akid's death that threw things off because he could have done the mafia NK. AH is obviously in the group because that group contained those with no night action (myself and DYH).
Yare:
583 - Suspicious of Yare's night choice.
629 - Ditto.
645 - Responses to Yare's mini case against him are weak. (Except #4)
647 - Explicilty OMGUS votes Yare. This is truly an OMGUS since the reasons he's given are all things he had previously stated, and there's really no knew reason to justify the vote at the time beyond being attacked.
778 - Says Yare and AH could be last two mafia with Spot as SK.
Meh, again, not one of the strongest things you have going against me. Certainly it factors into the mix of things, but if anything, it further proves me and DYH are not connected in the remaining mafia.
Post 802 - Avoids commenting on DYH's case. Specifically, he comments on DYH but doesn't actually address any of the behavioral points brought up by either Kraj or Axelrod.
And DYH would have been okay with my day 1 behavior how, exactly? (if you are saying we are both mafia) In other words, he wouldn't want me to totally shape up my behavior, but certainly he'd advise me to avoid making more deplorable mistakes.
Some One has been a big pile of fence sit and waffles. Every strong stance he has actually taken he has later reversed according to the general consensus of the town. He has contributed next to nothing of his own ideas and his analysis has consisted almost completely of weak metagaming.
Thanks for actually re-reading me that extensively, Kraj! I really appreciate all your help, and next time, I'll definitely play a little better (lol A LOT better :p). Too bad, however, this vital lesson on mafia comes at both of our expenses as far as winning this game is concerned, but such is life.
Then I think we are looking in the right place. But I also think we've got, at best, one more chance to miss, and (obviously) not everyone in that group is scum.
Its hard for me to decide about DYH - your point is valid that his ability literally does nothing for the town, besides DYH himself giving a vote and analysis.
Some One has seemed pretty sincere to me in his apologies. I can't substantiate it beyond anything more than a gut feeling, though, so I won't exactly dissuade anyone from him.
Nothing has really changed for me with Yare. I still think his claimed night actions seem strange, and his behavior hasn't been consistent.
I'm going to stick with Yare for now, but if it really comes down to DYH vs no lynch, I can switch to DYH before the deadline.
And @Sutherlands - I'm sorry for the prodding being necessary. My schedule has gone down the tubes, and I've replaced out of all my other games. I'll definitely keep better tabs on what is happening.
As for the moment while im still unsure what to believe with Someone, I don't think he should be the lynch for today. (which would have to be auto lynch tomorrow I guess depending on today's death and night kill(s).)
Right now I feel like I am being spun around and around..
Currently I am feeling like my vote will be for AH. And if he does come out as scum.. It would make me feel better about Someone staying alive.
I also agree that DYH could be scum as well, I haven't felt that "good" about him.
Not sure how to take Axel/GT either as a faith healer wasting their role dosen't make me want to trust them.
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Right now I feel like I am being spun around and around..
Tell me about it.
I certainly wasn't expecting Some One to come in and basically say everything scummy I accused him of is true. It's rather disarming; so now I feel like all my reasons for suspecting him are moot in the face of a gut feeling about whether he's being sincere or playing the sympathy card. Axelrod's point that Some One's ability makes him important if he's town is true, so if I'm on the fence about him the smart play would be to give him the benefit of the doubt. And at this point I'm willing to give him that benefit, because my final reread gave me someone else I'm extremely suspicious of: Yare. I've generally been middle-of-the-road on Yare, but rereading I found two major points that bother me: his interaction with AK, and his position on Spot.
Regarding AK:
In post 173 Yare makes a rather grandstandish FoS on Natirasha (Some One) for lurking. I say 'grandstandish' because instead of just putting the lurker FoS out there, he makes a point of explaining the circumstances under which he'd retract the FoS, as if it were a big deal.
In post 602 Yare votes GT (Axelrod) to prod him into participating (quickly unvoting after I point out how futile that is). In 667 he revotes him for lurking and has been listing him among his top scumspects.
These aren't really scummy on their own, but compare to his reaction to AK.
Post 204 - Prompts AK for promised explanations.
291 - Prompts AK for activity.
419 - Makes a snarky comment about AK's failure to provide promised content.
497 - Says AK's lurking is slightly scummy, but mostly just lazy. The entire game Yare has been prompting AK to increase activity but he never applies any actual pressure over it even though he applied pressure to Natirasha (Some One) over it and has repeatedly used it as a reason to pressure GT (Axelrod). The inconsistency here is extremely suspicious.
589 - Here Yare says he found AK scummy day 1. I got pretty much the opposite impression from reading his posts. He expressed suspicion of the lurking, sure, but nowhere near as much as he did other lurkers, and when it came down to taking a stand he characterized AK as 'lazy' and 'slightly scummy' rather than 'lurky scum'.
In summary, Yare pressured a couple players for the same behavior AK was doing but never pressured AK. When he did make a firm 'read' on AK, it was "lazy" and "slightly scummy". Once AK's alignment was known he then said he thought AK was scummy all along.
Regarding Spot:
Post 589 - Yare's initial reaction to Spot's night choices at the start of day 2 is that they "make perfect sense".
633 - Reaffirms that Spot's night choice makes no sense as scum.
639 - Lists Spot as town along with Kraj and Roja. SO is probably SK, GT and DYH most likely mafia.
674 - After listing SO and GT as his top scum picks, identifies the remaining likely scum as AH, Spot, or DYH in that order. So how did Spot, whom he has thrice now defended with 100% certainty, move up higher on his probable scum list than DYH, whom he had just listed as likely scum?
688 - After moving his vote back to Some One, Yare now votes Spot. His explanation:
Initially I was put off by SoP's explanation because his reasons seemed inconsistent, but nobody seemed to upset about it, so I let it go.
This is in direct contradiction to his actual initial reaction in post 589.
704 - With Spot near a lynch, Yare unvotes based on gut. Says there are good reasons for voting Spot but thinks other options need to be explored, mainly that lurkers need to be addressed.
731 - Moves vote to AH. Again says he strongly feels there are good reasons for lynching Spot but won't vote him based on gut.
In summary, Yare initially defended Spot quite firmly, then when it looked like Spot might be lynched he joined the wagon and gave reasons that do not hold true. Right before the lynch would happen he hops off but repeatedly says there are good reasons for lynching Spot, which indicates he was fine with the lynch happening, he just didn't want his name on the vote list.
Other scummy stuff:
204 - Is suspicious of RafK prior to shooting Axelrod, saying he could be scum because CFing day 1 is a good play for scum. Not pushing the idea, just tossing it out there for opinions. This is the first of a two posts where he "tosses an idea out" that casts suspicion on some one (the other is 556). Very 'testing the waters'-ish, and very WIFOM.
391 - Axelrod is shot. AH affirms his pre-shot vote on Raf. GT votes Raf. Pesco (Kraj) votes Raf. Loran says they are all idiots. Spot votes Raf.
With several votes on AH and one clear dissenter, Yare presents a lengthy case on Raf and adds the fifth vote. This really looks like he's pushing for a momentum lynch of Raf.
481 - Yare continues to push Raf, now indiciating he thinks Raf and AH are scumbuddies.
491 - More pushing on Raf with a massive pile of bad logic: WIFOM, speculation, setting up the next lynch, etc.
579 - His claim of randomizing Loran is suspicious for reasons that have already been covered. I will add, though, that earlier in the game when the town said he should not randomize anyone because of the WIFOM it generates, he did not argue. At no point prior to day 2 did Yare ever indicate he might choose to use his ability.
Overall, Yare noteably reacted differenty to AK's behavior than he did to other players who behaved similarly, made a huge 180 on Spot based on reasons that very clearly contradict his earlier behavior, pushed suspicion on Raf in a non-commital way and then make a strong push on him when a quick wagon was rolling, and has claimed a very suspicious night action.
Unvote, Vote: Yare
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For those interested in a careful analysis of my play: I lost nearly all interest in too much analysis a few weeks into day 2. It's just not worth my time to go into in depth analysis if I know it will be disregarded shortly thereafter after we go on some huge tangent. You guys have dragged this out unbelievably. Yeah, I derailed SoP's wagon, but that's because I thought we were headed in a seriously wrong direction. So basically, anything after that isn't worth your time in terms of analyzing me. I just don't think the analysis has changed much since the first few weeks of day 2.
If you want to lynch me, go ahead. I really don't care.
Yare is probably the SK. He knows his obvious wincon and really, at this point, has no desire to continue living. I don't see him as being one of 2 remaining members of a scum team and certainly not town. Unvote, Vote Yare. If you place no value on your life, how do you expect others to do the same?
Well, if/when you guys lynch me and I turn up town, keep in mind that AH's performance has been laughable in terms of his contribution. Due to the insistence of the group on examining every little facet of everything to death, you've actually neglected the initial case from day one against AH, who STILL lives in spite of RafaelK's mistake. Again, as I pointed out a long time ago, this was because he wasn't around. But, since you still don't have any interest in looking at that...
Unvote, vote Some One
For anybody who says this is a change of stance, it's not. I've been saying this for weeks. That and I surmise that it will likely be me or him now that I've revealed my incredible indifference, so this is the only logical play.
Also, if I end up getting lynched, I'd like to note that this isn't just on me (though, yeah, I am partially at fault) when I turn up town. I tried to make a contribution, I really did. But, instead, I was met with indifference early on and a lack of participation. Consequently, it just wasn't worth my time. I've found this to be the trend in games on this forum, so I've ceased further participation in mafia games on this forum.
Not that I have a problem with you agreeing with me, but why don't you see him as mafia? How are you so certain that he's SK?
Wouldn't a player on a team consisting of individuals other than himself have a less conceited and defeatest attitude and perhaps more concern for his life. Being an SK greatly explains his lack of caring about whether he is lynched or not.
Well, if/when you guys lynch me and I turn up town, keep in mind that AH's performance has been laughable in terms of his contribution. Due to the insistence of the group on examining every little facet of everything to death, you've actually neglected the initial case from day one against AH, who STILL lives in spite of RafaelK's mistake. Again, as I pointed out a long time ago, this was because he wasn't around. But, since you still don't have any interest in looking at that...
So, now Yare actually has taken an interest in posting something other than "I don't care if you lynch me."
Unvote, vote Some One
For anybody who says this is a change of stance, it's not. I've been saying this for weeks. That and I surmise that it will likely be me or him now that I've revealed my incredible indifference, so this is the only logical play.
This, and the point below, add to my idea that Yare is the SK because if he was town, for example, I see it as incredibly likely he would just ask to be replaced out. However, despite "not caring at all" he has stayed in this game - and it would make sense for him to want to stay in if he had a unique role one will so infrequently play, and that's the SK.
Also, if I end up getting lynched, I'd like to note that this isn't just on me (though, yeah, I am partially at fault) when I turn up town. I tried to make a contribution, I really did. But, instead, I was met with indifference early on and a lack of participation. Consequently, it just wasn't worth my time. I've found this to be the trend in games on this forum, so I've ceased further participation in mafia games on this forum.
You acknowledge play that is as terrible as mine and your excuse is that you didn't see it as worth your time?
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You do realize that the holiday gave people time to re-read everything? What is shocking about that?
i definitely agree with this
now that dd mafia has ended - we can talk about it - but as i was saying before, akids behavior as scum seems to be something that cant be gauged either way - like he always acts differently as town or scum. that being said, i do find it interesting for dyh to try to classify akids behavior by saying its obvious when hes scum when it seems as though nothing is obvious with akid.
at the same time you call it scummy, it could be looked at as what it is, in actuality - noobish uncertainty. look at dd mafia - i was town there and did very much the same thing. i must admit i played terribly there because i had no idea what was going on - who was town and who was scum. on that note, i barned all day, had little unique thought, and my play there very much parallels my play here. i would say i even played scummier over there, at least from my perspective.
i still really dont like his post where he voted for sop...
I doubt many people re-read anything.
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V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
So between Myself, Kraj, Spot and DYH (All that I beleive that have expressed intrest in looking at Some one.) Who are you doubting?
Sure, as could absolutely any scummy play made by a newer player. The noob card is not a free pass, it's a mitigating factor when a case is weak.
Since you are so fond of metagming, I'll point out a couple things. In my opinion, your performance in Harry Potter as town was much more town-like. When you made comments or prompted other players for information, it was regarding in-game events, not metagame analysis. You took much more firm and aggressive stances and had much fewer changes of heart. I was not suspicious of you at all that game.
More importantly, in your first game of mafia (Newbie #20, Alice Mafia) what did you - as mafia - do when put under pressure for your behavior? You repeatedly claimed it was due to being a newbie.
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i very much so liked my play during that game - it was helluva lot more solid there than here or dd, for example
and that's what i did in dd mafia when i claimed very early and overreacted in response to pressure...and in berzerk when i overreacted to pressure - i was townie in both berserk and dd
i don't want to pull the noob card like that, i don't want to be that noob but it needs to be done. what saved me in dd and berzerk was the fact the town rightfully believed my truthful claim - at least till the end in dd when tmt prevailed - i am outta luck here because of the open setup, sadly. dyh was with me in berzerk - he knew my reluctance to state my views, my overall uncertainty and willingnessto barn, and etc.
at dyh - akid was scum in both dd and this game and some noob game as of recently - his behavior in all 3 was far from the same, at least as far as i can tell
Being as I was also in Alice Mafia WITH Someone, I tell myself: Can somoene learn what NOT to do as it didn't work for them in the past?
I mean pulling the Noob card isn't going to get him any points in his favor and he should realize this. To me it makes me wonder if he isn't trying to cover up a mafia role becuase he has already went down this path before.
Some one comming up town in DD mafia (where he also posted the similar "you'll be sorry when i'll come up town" post.) Also is giving him another "point" in "why would he be mafia"?
Kraj, Even after these two facts do you still feel that strong about Some one as you did earlier? It's a slope I cannot grasp.
Based upon what I see here, it seems Kraj is the only who claims to have done any rereading (maybe I missed some).
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Absolutely.
Precisely.
Maybe, but that's just WIFOM.
I don't get what you mean by this.
Nothing has changed my feelings on Some One. My vote is based on his behavior in this game, not on metagaming. I put very little stock into metagaming, especially when it is very generalized. He was the one to bring past behavior up in his defense; I simply followed suit to show past behavior that supports my position.
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Yes but your orginal statement has you "shocked" that people would turn onto Someone after the break. I was more wondering who you thought was turning for more then what they say.
Also did you answer Spots Question?
In Doomsday Mafia Some one was in the same sorta situation he is in here in this game. And in both games around the same time he posted two semi exact messages:
The bolded part is what I am mostly talking about. Doomsday mafia is overwith and SO was infact a townie. I guess I shouldn't let outside "information" influance my views however it is what is making me question if he is mafia. Granted I didn't read DD mafia well enough, I just noticed that it finished and that SO was the last lynch and that he posted a message just like the one above.
Very well, I cannot argue with that really. I know I have tried to get info from him to help me feel beter that he isn't scum, but you are right his behavior isn't something that is town friendly. I just don't want to believe it I guess. I dono this game has me doubting everyone and I would like to hear more from everyone again before we go and lynch someone.
and there's plenty of past behavior that supports my position of being town - the same indecisiveness/scummy behavior i have here i had in berzerk and in dd
im a very indecisive person by nature, always looking at details and drowning myself in uncertainty and i have to admit its something i need to get beyond if im ever to succeed
I'm wondering when you're going to post anything of substance again?
Just about everything you've posted over the last month has been one-liners and a blanket statement to say, "Hey, I'll vote for any of the following people: (list)". I recall you doing a bit of this in day one, too, since I commented on it when you attacked AK for his lack of contribution.
I've already read through this game about three times; I don't have any desire to do it again, nor do I feel the need, but I would like you to start pulling your weight. I feel like it's just me, Roja, and Kraj really contributing as of late, with occasional commentary from Axelrod and Some One. Abandon Hope really needs to step it up, too, especially given how I feel about him anyway.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Ah. Well like I said, I don't put much stock into things like this. I used to, but I got burned over and over. For example, in my very first game (Mushroom kingdom normal) atlseal was mafia godfather. On day 1 the town was about to lynch scum who made a lousy claim. atlseal chimed in with a "nail in the coffin" type post, saying he knew for a fact the claim was false. In another game (Medieval mini), he made the exact same type of post but as town.
But not in Harry Potter. Indecisiveness is not a town tell for you whatsoever if you sometimes are not indecisive as town.
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And Spot, cannot forget about Spot.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
but look at how much i said - i'm hermione vanilla town
i was indecisive at times during that game - like my sudden jump on chimp, for example, but other than that, there was still a good amount of barning - and things were much more clear in that game - for example, cpe and dagger needed to be lynched for some pretty obvious reasons - and reasons that obvious haven't existed in this game. yes, the cpe lynch was wrong, but he was just playing so scummy
Is this some sort of joke/sarcasm?
could you barn any harder?
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saturday night and can post sunday night
So when AH just blatantly barned the wagon, I shouldn't discuss that at all? I, along with some others, are suspicious of him and his last post helps solidify my current view of him. He takes my post saying I'll be away as a "refusal to comment" which it isn't for the very reason stated in the post of mine that he quoted.
Your defense right now of all of your actions is because you are on vacation.
You are currently posting reguarly which is making it seem like you HAVE time to post.
Which is making it seem you have the time to provide a defense however you are just hiding because there isn't one.
Believe me Someone, some one would catch the barning of AH (Or an OMGUS depending on how you wanna look at it..) .. Bravo to you, however I think it would be wise for you to enjoy your Vaca so when you are back you are refeshed and ready to answer the questions/points against you.
This is good advice.
Im withholding further comment on AH or SO until after the weekend (and said post takes place).
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
There are only 8 players living.
Each of us is looking at a group of seven. If you can rule out just 1 or two people from that group, then the odds of hitting scum go way, way up.
No one is looking at Roja, yes? I certainly haven't heard it if you are. If you aren't, then you are looking at a group of 6 and you've got 50-50 odds just by flipping a coin.
I'm excusing spotofprey because his claim makes him not Mafia under all but the most convoluted of circumstances. Yes, he might be SK (and playing a most dangerous game with the lying about Bus Driving Targets), but that seems unlikely to me.
This leaves:
DYH
Some One
Yare
AH
Kraj
With 3 very likely scum in this group. This should be like shooting fish in a barrell!
I know it's not really. Frankly, the trick at the moment for me is trying to figure out who out of Some One, Yare, and AH looks the least scummy. Kraj could also be scum, but if he is, we probably lose anyway regardless of what we do, so I don't think I'm going to stress too much about that possibility right now.
DYH is still scum (almost certain).
One thing that came to my mind is the fact that as of recently, you can see I've taken a firm stance on AH. For all of Kraj's points to be 100% valid and totally in favor of me being scum, I would have to have unvoted AH the point at which he or the "town's consensus" began to favor DYH more than AH. I have not done this and have established my stance that AH is scum, despite the fact that Kraj so clearly feels otherwise. This stance was established before Kraj posted his case against me, so it's not like I took a stance in response to him posting a case against me citing the main issues as not taking a stance and fence-sitting - I had this firm stance already.
Really?
No argument, no firm stance, just a we should "probably" go lynch the guy that everyone has been suspicious of all game but who hasn't even had a real case made against him.
You see what I mean, which is that AH has done about the same amount of things that don't make sense as scum as he's done scummy things, and want to reread. That's certainly not firmly saying AH is scum.
The stance in this post is pretty clearly: "AH's behavior makes some sense as scum." That's not firmly saying AH is scum.
So perhaps you'd like to point out where you took this firm stance?
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I didn't unvote in response to yours and others' uncertainty in regards to his scumminess; I stuck to my guns in this particular case.
You site me for flip-flopping throughout the game, but when I actually take a stance, you criticize it. I'm certainly not the only one voting AH, and that being said, I'm not the only one who needs to address the reasons for voting for him if in fact you are questioning the wagon as a whole. Others have stated their own reasons for voting for him, and my extreme dislike of the post where he voted SoP is what I added to the pool of "reasons AH looks worthy of a lynch." You disagree with my analysis of this post and my stance regarding AH, but I didn't drop this position as I may have done previously.
My only comment is that you are speaking in wierd methods, you speak in both personal and what the group should think. And I find it amusing how you are not included in the list of who people should suspect. However if this is your thought process I would also say that Kraj being scum worrys me as well.
There are 3 scum on two sides.. if Someone is on one of those two sides would Kraj be on the other? Just thinking outloud.
I still feel that AH is more likely scum than SO. The connection to AK is the primary reason, but his short quips and doubt-sowing at SoP are scummy, too. As if he's trying to limit the number of "likely townies" in existence. I postulated earlier that I don't think SO is the SK for his lack of understanding game mechanics, and I still feel that way. AH could be either (mafia/sk), frankly, given his behavior, so I'd prefer to lynch him.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Also, activity has mostly picked up, but this day has gone on too long, so I'm putting a deadline up. The day will end January 23rd, at 9:00 PM MST. If no majority has been reached by then, the day will end in a nolynch.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
AH (where my vote is now)
DYH
SO
Axelrod
Considering this day started on November 21, I feel like we should be able to pick someone by now. I also think that not lynching someone we think is suspicious today is really bad for the town.
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She knows why.
DYH, on the other hand, has no useful potential ability. He has a negative ability.
The point being this: if you are on the fence, feel ambivilent, think there's close to the same chances of each of them being scum, then DYH is a better choice for this reason alone.
This does not mean I don't think Some One can be scum here - including SK type scum. Just that I'm certain DYH is the better choice at this moment.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I get the sense that most people think you are at least somewhat suspect (and when I say "somewhat" I mean "somewhat higher than average"). Maybe I'm wrong about that, people are certainly free to say so.
You can't be surprised that I am lobbying for you out of all the other possibilities.
Frankly, if we are looking in the group of
DYH
Some One
Yare
Abandon Hope
Then I think we are looking in the right place. But I also think we've got, at best, one more chance to miss, and (obviously) not everyone in that group is scum.
Correct
This is a little bit of a strawman. I said, "If he is town, yeah, the town got a real scummy lurker out of the way without turning the game to night." It would certainly be positive that we'd eliminate a scummy lurker without turning the game to night. I never said it was good to lose a townie, but it's better to lose a townie to a crazed fiend than a lynch.
Is it, now?
Hey, it's ringing true! What have my recent thoughts of AH gotten me? Answer: nothing.
Really, really awful noob play. I can't even believe myself that I'm actually town...and expect you all to even possibly believe me given I can't believe myself. Yes, I realize this does nothing at all to help convince you I am somehow town, but there's no legitimate explanation for it. My mind was on a million other things because this came before I went to Atlantic City and needed to make up a bunch of work beforehand - classes, tests, and labs - but realistically I cannot possibly think of any way to respond to this horrendous series of posts.
I'm still very weary of AH because of his case against SpotofPrey.
AH did act very scummy and 803 contains a bit more than a mere metagame argument.
Currently, there is real justification out there for why I am currently attacking him. On that note, just because you find him town for it despite the fact I find him scum for it means that I have finally stuck my vote somewhere despite your disagreement with my decision.
Correct.
Correct...LOL
Epic fail, much?
It's the whole vacation thing, I'm telling you. Too much...@ Atlantic City...
My play was absolutely deplorable. I initially thought there must be some way to analyze this and attempt to show everyone I am actually town, but there really is no way to do so - it's just so stupidly scummy, how come no one came along and said "dude, you can't defend yourself against this, it's just impossible" and it would have saved a couple days of IRL time. At the very least it was a good learning experience, and given the supreme power of my role I should have definitely played a whole lot better.
Certainly not amongst the stronger points. I'd like to look at it that I knew SoP was town, but I didn't fully understand why exactly I felt that way.
More retarded fail.
I guess you can say until today I placed no value on my individual opinion. I looked at my vote as meaningless and purposeless. I'm not about to convince you, Kraj, that anyone who I think is scum is actually scum if you don't think they are (AH for example). Likewise, I guess one could say I just tried way too hard to fit in and look as town as possible, but ultimately ended up looking scummier than all scum.
Individually scummy stuff:
SomeOne has commented on other people's arguments, but the only original analysis he has offered is metagaming-based comments, and without even noting specific behavior. Metagaming may be useful when you can identify a specific behavior a player makes as scum or town and then compare, but all SomeOne's comments are general "playing different" or "playing the same" comparissons.
Unfortunately...
Or just that Akid succeeded in posthumously setting up a mislynch in the way he dealt with me...just like what CC did in DD mafia.
Not really deflection in either of those, at least as far as I can tell.
Again, a feeble attempt to blend in coincident with the thought that my opinions, viewpoints, and perspectives are all meaningless when they stand next to another player such as those of you, DYH, etc.
Well, it was retracted because of Akid's death that threw things off because he could have done the mafia NK. AH is obviously in the group because that group contained those with no night action (myself and DYH).
Meh, again, not one of the strongest things you have going against me. Certainly it factors into the mix of things, but if anything, it further proves me and DYH are not connected in the remaining mafia.
And DYH would have been okay with my day 1 behavior how, exactly? (if you are saying we are both mafia) In other words, he wouldn't want me to totally shape up my behavior, but certainly he'd advise me to avoid making more deplorable mistakes.
Thanks for actually re-reading me that extensively, Kraj! I really appreciate all your help, and next time, I'll definitely play a little better (lol A LOT better :p). Too bad, however, this vital lesson on mafia comes at both of our expenses as far as winning this game is concerned, but such is life.
Its hard for me to decide about DYH - your point is valid that his ability literally does nothing for the town, besides DYH himself giving a vote and analysis.
Some One has seemed pretty sincere to me in his apologies. I can't substantiate it beyond anything more than a gut feeling, though, so I won't exactly dissuade anyone from him.
Nothing has really changed for me with Yare. I still think his claimed night actions seem strange, and his behavior hasn't been consistent.
I'm going to stick with Yare for now, but if it really comes down to DYH vs no lynch, I can switch to DYH before the deadline.
And @Sutherlands - I'm sorry for the prodding being necessary. My schedule has gone down the tubes, and I've replaced out of all my other games. I'll definitely keep better tabs on what is happening.
Right now I feel like I am being spun around and around..
Currently I am feeling like my vote will be for AH. And if he does come out as scum.. It would make me feel better about Someone staying alive.
I also agree that DYH could be scum as well, I haven't felt that "good" about him.
Not sure how to take Axel/GT either as a faith healer wasting their role dosen't make me want to trust them.
Tell me about it.
I certainly wasn't expecting Some One to come in and basically say everything scummy I accused him of is true. It's rather disarming; so now I feel like all my reasons for suspecting him are moot in the face of a gut feeling about whether he's being sincere or playing the sympathy card. Axelrod's point that Some One's ability makes him important if he's town is true, so if I'm on the fence about him the smart play would be to give him the benefit of the doubt. And at this point I'm willing to give him that benefit, because my final reread gave me someone else I'm extremely suspicious of: Yare. I've generally been middle-of-the-road on Yare, but rereading I found two major points that bother me: his interaction with AK, and his position on Spot.
Regarding AK:
In post 173 Yare makes a rather grandstandish FoS on Natirasha (Some One) for lurking. I say 'grandstandish' because instead of just putting the lurker FoS out there, he makes a point of explaining the circumstances under which he'd retract the FoS, as if it were a big deal.
In post 602 Yare votes GT (Axelrod) to prod him into participating (quickly unvoting after I point out how futile that is). In 667 he revotes him for lurking and has been listing him among his top scumspects.
These aren't really scummy on their own, but compare to his reaction to AK.
Post 204 - Prompts AK for promised explanations.
291 - Prompts AK for activity.
419 - Makes a snarky comment about AK's failure to provide promised content.
497 - Says AK's lurking is slightly scummy, but mostly just lazy. The entire game Yare has been prompting AK to increase activity but he never applies any actual pressure over it even though he applied pressure to Natirasha (Some One) over it and has repeatedly used it as a reason to pressure GT (Axelrod). The inconsistency here is extremely suspicious.
589 - Here Yare says he found AK scummy day 1. I got pretty much the opposite impression from reading his posts. He expressed suspicion of the lurking, sure, but nowhere near as much as he did other lurkers, and when it came down to taking a stand he characterized AK as 'lazy' and 'slightly scummy' rather than 'lurky scum'.
In summary, Yare pressured a couple players for the same behavior AK was doing but never pressured AK. When he did make a firm 'read' on AK, it was "lazy" and "slightly scummy". Once AK's alignment was known he then said he thought AK was scummy all along.
Regarding Spot:
Post 589 - Yare's initial reaction to Spot's night choices at the start of day 2 is that they "make perfect sense".
633 - Reaffirms that Spot's night choice makes no sense as scum.
639 - Lists Spot as town along with Kraj and Roja. SO is probably SK, GT and DYH most likely mafia.
674 - After listing SO and GT as his top scum picks, identifies the remaining likely scum as AH, Spot, or DYH in that order. So how did Spot, whom he has thrice now defended with 100% certainty, move up higher on his probable scum list than DYH, whom he had just listed as likely scum?
688 - After moving his vote back to Some One, Yare now votes Spot. His explanation:
This is in direct contradiction to his actual initial reaction in post 589.
704 - With Spot near a lynch, Yare unvotes based on gut. Says there are good reasons for voting Spot but thinks other options need to be explored, mainly that lurkers need to be addressed.
731 - Moves vote to AH. Again says he strongly feels there are good reasons for lynching Spot but won't vote him based on gut.
In summary, Yare initially defended Spot quite firmly, then when it looked like Spot might be lynched he joined the wagon and gave reasons that do not hold true. Right before the lynch would happen he hops off but repeatedly says there are good reasons for lynching Spot, which indicates he was fine with the lynch happening, he just didn't want his name on the vote list.
Other scummy stuff:
204 - Is suspicious of RafK prior to shooting Axelrod, saying he could be scum because CFing day 1 is a good play for scum. Not pushing the idea, just tossing it out there for opinions. This is the first of a two posts where he "tosses an idea out" that casts suspicion on some one (the other is 556). Very 'testing the waters'-ish, and very WIFOM.
391 - Axelrod is shot. AH affirms his pre-shot vote on Raf. GT votes Raf. Pesco (Kraj) votes Raf. Loran says they are all idiots. Spot votes Raf.
With several votes on AH and one clear dissenter, Yare presents a lengthy case on Raf and adds the fifth vote. This really looks like he's pushing for a momentum lynch of Raf.
481 - Yare continues to push Raf, now indiciating he thinks Raf and AH are scumbuddies.
491 - More pushing on Raf with a massive pile of bad logic: WIFOM, speculation, setting up the next lynch, etc.
579 - His claim of randomizing Loran is suspicious for reasons that have already been covered. I will add, though, that earlier in the game when the town said he should not randomize anyone because of the WIFOM it generates, he did not argue. At no point prior to day 2 did Yare ever indicate he might choose to use his ability.
Overall, Yare noteably reacted differenty to AK's behavior than he did to other players who behaved similarly, made a huge 180 on Spot based on reasons that very clearly contradict his earlier behavior, pushed suspicion on Raf in a non-commital way and then make a strong push on him when a quick wagon was rolling, and has claimed a very suspicious night action.
Unvote, Vote: Yare
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
If you want to lynch me, go ahead. I really don't care.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
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Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Not that I have a problem with you agreeing with me, but why don't you see him as mafia? How are you so certain that he's SK?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Unvote, vote Some One
For anybody who says this is a change of stance, it's not. I've been saying this for weeks. That and I surmise that it will likely be me or him now that I've revealed my incredible indifference, so this is the only logical play.
Also, if I end up getting lynched, I'd like to note that this isn't just on me (though, yeah, I am partially at fault) when I turn up town. I tried to make a contribution, I really did. But, instead, I was met with indifference early on and a lack of participation. Consequently, it just wasn't worth my time. I've found this to be the trend in games on this forum, so I've ceased further participation in mafia games on this forum.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
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Wouldn't a player on a team consisting of individuals other than himself have a less conceited and defeatest attitude and perhaps more concern for his life. Being an SK greatly explains his lack of caring about whether he is lynched or not.
So, now Yare actually has taken an interest in posting something other than "I don't care if you lynch me."
This, and the point below, add to my idea that Yare is the SK because if he was town, for example, I see it as incredibly likely he would just ask to be replaced out. However, despite "not caring at all" he has stayed in this game - and it would make sense for him to want to stay in if he had a unique role one will so infrequently play, and that's the SK.
You acknowledge play that is as terrible as mine and your excuse is that you didn't see it as worth your time?