So in the case where the Roja-kill was a vig or SK, we're assuming the dragon business in the flavour scene was the failed scum NK? Assuming someone roleblocked correctly on N1 seems a little out there, although in this game there could be a variety of other powers that could make up for it. I like what someone else said about waiting to see how much we can take from flavour scenes before we come back to analyze Roja's death more.
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Quote from Rancored_Elf »
Welcome to the club of fans that have been attacked by the game they love most.
Vote: CPE this is a 'wagon we really should be paying attention to. I agree that LurkerWuffles seemed like he was trying to hard to not be a lurker, but instead came out with "a hiding in plain sight w/ a side of no content" posting style.
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Ok, let's say you're town. Your decision to basically disregard what happened on day 1 in favor of seeing if anyone today shows up as scummy smacks of laziness on your part, which seems atypical of you. (You might have something else that demands your attention, and would limit the time you have to devote to this game, I don't know, but it seems unusual.)
I've already skimmed the thread, and have since decided that what I got from it was not worth the time spent doing it.
If you're scum, then your choice becomes "I'll sit back and see if a wagon develops on someone, then jump on."
In this case you should use bandwagoning as a scumtell, instead someone's refusal to reread (and, incidentally, be suspicious of yourself for bandwagoning).
Quote from Jobie »
I agree that LurkerWuffles seemed like he was trying to hard to not be a lurker, but instead came out with "a hiding in plain sight w/ a side of no content" posting style.
@Jobie - Thanks for validating my online existence by quoting a post of mine in your sig. I am now immortal.
Now. To comment.
RE: Wuffles - As far as I can tell, he's just playing as normal, overreact-to-EVERYTHING, townie-wuffles.
RE: Zionite. - I didn't like his post saying Wuffles was "the play" on Day One. What I liked even less was the lack of a vote accompanying that statement. I also don't like his passive fishing today.
RE: CunningFox - After re-reading him, I have to say I'm not convinced of his scumminess. To be honest, I couldn't actually find a good reason why he was wagoned Day One in the first place.
To summarize, and in case I'm not already, Unvote: Vote Zionite.
I was going to ask for a replacement, but it seems there's enough trouble with that already so I'll try to keep up. sadly I can't promise anything.
I need to get everything in order, this game is weirding me out...
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EBWODP: okay, I've got much of my things in order, and I've got a decent idea of what's gone down.
FoS Bat, his recent WIFOMy posts about Roja's death have pinged my scumdar, or what's left of it.
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My vote on him [Wuffles, that is] is based somewhat on his Day 1, as I've said. But largely that is based upon his irrational reaction(s) to people questioning/talking about WoD. You're really going to try and say that assuming WoD is cleared is irrational? Wow. Just keep telling yourself that Cyan is never wrong. Not until people call him on his insanely unsafe logic, and he ignores them, citing his lack of ability to respond to PBPA arguments...
And that is only a smaller part of it, mostly my problem with Wuffles is that his overreaction to Zionite seems completely forced and opportunistic, and the part where he refers to Zionite as a townie, after having placed a vote on him, and not removing said vote, seems entirely like a slip of inside information. My GOD.
Do NONE OF YOU READ MY POSTS?
I ADDRESSED THIS EXACT POINT ALREADY.
I WAS RESPONDING TO BATELEUR'S "aw, why'd you do that, wuffles" POST. HE COMMENTED ON HOW HE WAS GETTING A LOT OF GOOD REACTIONS FROM PEOPLE SPECULATING OVER ROJA'S DEATH. I WAS COMMENTING ON THE IRONY OF SAID PEOPLE THAT BOTH SPECULATE OVER FLAVOR REASONS AND YET AT THE SAME TIME ARE SAYING THAT "WE SHOULDN'T KEEP SPECULATING LIKE THIS"
ZIONITE WAS NEVER PART OF THAT COMMENT.
Ged, you're as bad as Cyan for buying into that craplogic.
Quote from WoD »
I didn't like his post saying Wuffles was "the play" on Day One.[/.QUOTE]Oh yeah...did Zionite *also* do that on day 2? Without attempting to justify it? Why yes, I believe he did. I agree with AH, that I'm surprised Bat didn't jump on that. What's the deal, Bat?
Zionite really needs to learn to PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS.
OMGUS? Yeah, right. You've never made any serious attempt to vote me, merely placed baseless, unjustified suspicion on me.
And I will continue to ream you over it until you do. Put your money where your mouth is, that is.
[QUOTE=Jobie]I agree that LurkerWuffles seemed like he was trying to hard to not be a lurker, but instead came out with "a hiding in plain sight w/ a side of no content" posting style.
Hypocrisy is very becoming of you, UberLurkerJobie! Anyone else here think we should ignore Jobie whenever he calls someone else on lurking? I know I do.
dude, i'm in three games, and you want me to pay special attention to you?
I never promised a case. I just stated my opinion on you from your day 1 behavior. An FoS. But its quickly looking like this is more about what pertains to you and not whether or not I'm scum, which I find really scummy in itself. You have quickly lost your original argument that I was 'challenging a vig' and now it has degraded into what you really don't like me for, and that is a simple 'igmeoy' post.
And if you haven't noticed, I'm being careful about my votes. I'm not going to jump on you just yet. I'm still studying you, and this entire situation. But for the record, you're squirming quite a bit from one post of pressure, and now you even have votes on you because of your overreaction and cracking under stress.
I still can't place you yet. But this is definitely helping.
Huhu...Twice this game you have actually said that Wuffles is the play, and yet you never bothered to actually attempt to push for "the play?"
Also, the excuse of being in 3 games is really not a good one. It's not our fault that you're overworking your analytical capabilities. Join less games, if you can't give 100% to each.
What, one post without mentioning that you were heinously scumfishing and I've "lost my original argument"?
Kay. Clearly, you're not giving 100% of your analytical capabilities to this game. I hope.
As far as I can recall, i've only been serious about voting you today. I don't remember suspecting you yesterday. I haven't made a case for just this reason. You squirm. A lot. And i'm not sure why. And its obvious with you posting in all caps to Cyan that you're losing your marbles.
In post 842, you mostly talk in defense of yourself and your omgus vote rather than me being town/scum. I can tell you're acting in self interests.
My analytical abilities has nothing to do with it. My time does though, and I only have so much time to dedicate two one game out of three games along with real life plans and activities. Cases eat up at least an hour for the original draft, then there is the massive back and forth of defenses and replies that no one reads that take even more time, about 30 minutes for each. It seems like a lot of work for day 2 and for someone I'm only watching and I don't necessarily think is scum at this point.
In post 842, you mostly talk in defense of yourself and your omgus vote rather than me being town/scum. I can tell you're acting in self interests.
...WHAT.THE.HELL.
You're calling someone out because they're acting in self interest. In a mafia game...?
I'm sorry Zionite, I made one post today that wasn't about you. I'm sorry. I still wuv you. Come out of the corner.
That being said, of COURSE people are going to defend themselves.
Defence is not scummy. And I ****ing hate it when people claim otherwise. If defence is a scumtell, then what's the point of playing?
And I'd ask you once more not to label it an OMGUS vote. It wasn't. It was you implicating me (as "the play" for the day), failing to back up your statement, and then, in a fit of scumfishing, trying to pull out the vigilante over a totally irrelevant point.
As for your time, well, I don't actually care. You said I was the play for today, and completely failed to back up your bark with some bite.
You have been playing mafia long enough to know your own limits. If you're going to keep whining about your lack of time, how about not signing up to 3 games at once next time?
You're calling someone out because they're acting in self interest. In a mafia game...?
I'm sorry Zionite, I made one post today that wasn't about you. I'm sorry. I still wuv you. Come out of the corner.
That being said, of COURSE people are going to defend themselves.
Defence is not scummy. And I ****ing hate it when people claim otherwise. If defence is a scumtell, then what's the point of playing?
And I'd ask you once more not to label it an OMGUS vote. It wasn't. It was you implicating me (as "the play" for the day), failing to back up your statement, and then, in a fit of scumfishing, trying to pull out the vigilante over a totally irrelevant point.
As for your time, well, I don't actually care. You said I was the play for today, and completely failed to back up your bark with some bite.
You have been playing mafia long enough to know your own limits. If you're going to keep whining about your lack of time, how about not signing up to 3 games at once next time?
Uh...okay, I misread the post you were talking about.
Allow me to re-iterate my thoughts.
Quote from My post that Zionite is actually referring to »
Here, I was referring to the people (Cyan being the one I am sure of) talking both about how we shouldn't keep basing our logic on flavor and yet at the same time doing so.
1. As for my vote being OMGUS:
Zionite mentioned I "was probably the play" without any provision of evidence - and then quite quickly seemed to move on without following up.
Making comments like that deserve a bit of follow-up, don't you think?
And, seriously, am I the only one that saw that post as an incredibly scummy fishing post, challenging a vigilante to come out?
I would like to believe I was not the only one.
So the deal is, you're voting me because I'm...self-interested?
The reason why I was on the defensive in 842 is because a wagon sprung up on me in between. I had no choice but to defend myself while at the same time pushing for more accountability for Zionite's posting.
Making comments like that without trying to back them up is still incredibly scummy.
No that isn't the major point against wuffles. I have nothing against wuffles right now. I did, but now i'm hesitant about it.
Anyway wuffles, you're really starting to nit-pick and that pisses me off. You're taking everything I say and using it against me in a way I didn't intend.
Oh, and I'm NOT voting you, if you've missed that.
The fact that you're NOT voting me is just more of a sign that your comment referring to "Wuffles being the play for today" was totally baseless - and the lack of vote does nothing to prevent that.
In all honesty, though, what did you expect?
You and Cyan, citing "self-interest" as a reason for my post being scummy is ridiculous.
Seriously, just get whatever "you had on wuffles" into the open. I want to see you justify that comment. It's going to irritate me until I get your reasons for doing so at the time.
You seriously worry me. Quit being so high profile wuffles. I don't think you're scummy right now. Its exactly as WoD said, this is exactly how you act as town. I realize that from your reactions. Though you should really tone it down.
I've stated why I've suspected you. It was a remaining feeling from day 1. I've said this several times.
To be fair, your reasons were terrible. And your bandwagoning 4th vote is noted.
Beat me to saying exactly the same thing. Also not the first person today to do the "well, I would vote CF/cpe, but he isn't here to answer so let's vote someone else".
I think it's incredibly suspect that Tilde then unvoted within half a page and went to look elsewhere. It looks VERY insincere.
Of course, that might just be Tilde being Tilde (and I'm sure someone will say so), but I hate writing off scummy actions just like that. Tilde acted really scummy in Points Mafia too, and that was because he was scum.
Nonetheless, due to the risk of Tilde just being Tilde, I would prefer to stay focussed on CPE (CunningFox).
I don't understand why the Wuffles wagon started, but more to the point it seems to have started as a way for some people to not vote for CPE, and therefore I don't rank it all that highly at the moment.
I forget if I actually voted, so unvote, vote CPE just in case.
Quote from desCoures »
I agree with Cyan on this one. In a 28 player game, one confirmed townie -- especially one not 100% Seal of ModGod Approval confirmed -- is far from a relevant threat early in the game.
Noted that DC is once again being sure to keep a wedge in on WoD and is generally sniping from the sidelines now that the pressure is off him. You're not forgotten DC
I'm surprised Bat didn't jump on that. What's the deal, Bat?
I don't see anything noteworthy there. Certainly nothing to "jump on". In case you haven't noticed it's the fashion at the moment for Mafia players to argue emotively, offer opinions in place of analysis and pretend levels of conviction they don't feel.
I just read the whole thread with a mental filter in place, like this:
Zionite writes: "Wuffles is the play"
I read: "I have nothing worthwhile to add at this point"
Easy!
Too many votes on CPE now for you to all be scum, so looks like people are pushing for a claim. Or, to put it another way, I'm in favour of CPE claiming since nobody's going to pay proper attention to anything else until we've dealt with him.
Unvote
FOS: CPE
(Would be a vote but I'm too rushed this morning to count up and see if he's close to a lynch.)
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Wuffles is reading more like a furiously misunderstood townie than flailing scum. We did learn a couple useful things from this wagon however: DC likes to be as unhelpful as possible.
As for the cpe/CF wagon, could someone please point me in the direction of the beginning of CF's day one wagon? I want to understand yesterday to better understand today.
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Thanks to THEY DID WHAT!? For the sweet banner!
Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
As for the cpe/CF wagon, could someone please point me in the direction of the beginning of CF's day one wagon? I want to understand yesterday to better understand today.
In post 842, you mostly talk in defense of yourself and your omgus vote rather than me being town/scum. I can tell you're acting in self interests.
I actually kind of agree with Cyan and Zionite on this, given that it was part of the reason I suspected Wuffles Day 1; posting almost entirely in pure self-defence, surfacing whenever his name was called. Thing is, this behaviour today is not the same as the same behaviour yesterday. This entire affair began with Wuffles calling out Zionite over perceived fishing -- not the kind of passive-aggressiveness he was displaying yesterday.
Also, @BigTime:
So expressing continued suspicion of an individual and outlining scummy behaviour by said individual is being 'unhelpful'? Objecting to what I feel to be bad points is being 'unhelpful'?
Also, PKB much? Since your replacement in, you've had three posts; the first was pointless flavour agreement, the second was your vote on Wuffles accompanied by the caveat of 'I'd love to see a case against him', which reads like an open invitation for others to attack Wuffles, and the third was your equally quick unvote, taking the opportunity to toss some rather thin slime on my argumentative credibility.
...although the sad thing is that this might actually be more posts than your predecessor had.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Vote: CPE this is a 'wagon we really should be paying attention to. I agree that LurkerWuffles seemed like he was trying to hard to not be a lurker, but instead came out with "a hiding in plain sight w/ a side of no content" posting style.
RE: Zionite. - I didn't like his post saying Wuffles was "the play" on Day One. What I liked even less was the lack of a vote accompanying that statement. I also don't like his passive fishing today.
I agree with this, except for the lack of vote bit. Something about Zionite is ringing false in the course of this argument. His posts are fluctuating from ringing emotional, to sounding calculated; from aggressive to sympathetic. And I haven't forgotten his odd push at Sephiroth being town yesterday, although to be fair we've now seen that flavour is a little off.
You have been playing mafia long enough to know your own limits. If you're going to keep whining about your lack of time, how about not signing up to 3 games at once next time?
Self-interest in a mafia game is not always helpful if one is town, which is kind of the point. I think I went over this in day 1 when bateleur was attacking me for, in his words, 'not trying to stay alive'.
The above point is also questionable. Over the months that a mafia game of this size normally lasts, availability of free time can and will fluctuate.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Bat. And how DC managed to completely avoid what was happening in the thread also worries me. But I'm watching bat mostly.
What exactly do you mean by 'what was happening in the thread'? Because I'm pretty certain I was involved in pointing out questionable behaviour from bateleur.
I don't understand why the Wuffles wagon started, but more to the point it seems to have started as a way for some people to not vote for CPE, and therefore I don't rank it all that highly at the moment.
I forget if I actually voted, so unvote, vote CPE just in case.
As far as I can tell, it started because of a difference of opinion. Some people read Zionite as fishing, others thought Wuffles was overreacting in a scummy way.
Noted that DC is once again being sure to keep a wedge in on WoD and is generally sniping from the sidelines now that the pressure is off him. You're not forgotten DC
Last I checked, the definition of 'sniping' didn't include 'all but rushing at someone, beating him over the head, and strip-searching him'. Also last I checked, the best way to remain hidden is not, in general, to lead an entire line of argument on one suspect.
And WoD isn't 100% confirmed, which I mentioned to debunk bateleur's point about such 'mod-confirmed townies' being targets of high priority. If even a 100% mod-confirmed townie like MMOD in WH40K wasn't a high priority, there's no reason for this one to be.
I don't see anything noteworthy there. Certainly nothing to "jump on". In case you haven't noticed it's the fashion at the moment for Mafia players to argue emotively, offer opinions in place of analysis and pretend levels of conviction they don't feel.
Unfortunately so. Also, nothing to say about my points against you, bateleur?
Too many votes on CPE now for you to all be scum, so looks like people are pushing for a claim. Or, to put it another way, I'm in favour of CPE claiming since nobody's going to pay proper attention to anything else until we've dealt with him.
Unvote
FOS: CPE
(Would be a vote but I'm too rushed this morning to count up and see if he's close to a lynch.)
Personally not going to vote CPE without hearing from him first. I'm not a big fan of trying to drive a lynch wagon without its intended passenger.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, nothing to say about my points against you, bateleur?
Not really. They're weak.
I tried engaging fully with you on day one and I learned everything I care to know about you. You still seem like fairly likely scum, but I don't think I have enough to bag you. So for now you get to enjoy the freedom to quote virtually every line I type and declare it scummy.
Actually I do have something to say to you: stop triple-posting. I know why you're doing it, it's because you're too lazy to composite posts properly from across multiple pages. It's not hard, just open multiple browser windows. (In fact even that's not necessary, just cut and paste.)
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Also, @BigTime:
1. So expressing continued suspicion of an individual and outlining scummy behaviour by said individual is being 'unhelpful'? Objecting to what I feel to be bad points is being 'unhelpful'?
2. Also, PKB much? Since your replacement in, you've had three posts; the first was pointless flavour agreement, the second was your vote on Wuffles accompanied by the caveat of 'I'd love to see a case against him', which reads like an open invitation for others to attack Wuffles, and the third was your equally quick unvote, taking the opportunity to toss some rather thin slime on my argumentative credibility.
3. ...although the sad thing is that this might actually be more posts than your predecessor had.
1. Yes. All of those things are unhelpful when you consider the fact that you completly ignored a major issue of discussion. You seem like a very opinionated person. Surely you had some kind of opinion about the entire Wuffles situation. However, not only did you not voice those opinions, but you tried pulling attention completly away from it by bring up 2-3 different names to look after without a single mention of one of the towns biggest focus.
2. I'm sorry, I've had to reread about 50 pages, while still making my presence known in two other games. Oh, and I forgot, I work a third shift job on the weekends and a second shift job during the weekdays, so my time schedule gets screwed up, especially with college enrollment and everything. But I can promise you this: You can expect to see me quite a bit from here on out now that I feel I have almost fully caught up with this game.
3. I have no excuses for CP. He pulled out of all games he was in I believe, so he must have had something going on in his life at the time. Sorry...
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Thanks to THEY DID WHAT!? For the sweet banner!
Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
I think that it's pretty obvious that Wuffles is scum, and knows that WoD is town, and is using that knowledge in his defense of WoD. Wuffles' aggressive attitude about the whole situation makes no sense otherwise.
And I really am surprised that no one cares more that he referred to Zionite as a townie, but continued to vote for him. This is extremely relevant.
@DC: In the midst of wuffles and my discussion, you didn't comment and only commented on bat. I liked what you said about bat, but not that you ignored the wuffles conflict.
Well, it's Sunday, and CPE's intention posting more hasn't appeared.
Quote from creampuffeater »
Hi, Im replacing Fox, and I must say... one lurker IRCer replacing another is a bit strange. I Am on page 5, and dont have that much free time untill the weekend, as thats when my 4 weeks of being a camp counselor end. See you then, byes
And Raf, if you think my vote on Wuffles was insincere, that's fine. DC brought up what I thought was a valid point regarding those who were leading the charge against Wuff, and I had a change of opinion because of it.
CPE on the other hand, is rapidly using up the benefit of a doubt that I was willing to give him due to his continued absence.
FOS creampuffeater. If he doesn't show up in the next day or two, this will likely become a vote.
I find posting a lot but saying nothing scummy, so yes.
So why do you think we should pay attention to CPE over Wuffles? You listed more against Wuffles than CPE.
Quote from bateleur »
Too many votes on CPE now for you to all be scum, so looks like people are pushing for a claim. Or, to put it another way, I'm in favour of CPE claiming since nobody's going to pay proper attention to anything else until we've dealt with him.
Unvote
FOS: CPE
There are only 4 votes on CPE, which is not that much. Yet you're in favor of a claim "to move on" already?
Ok, sorry I haven't posted this weekend, but I've been pretty busy.
That said, I think that Zionite and/or cpe is the play today. Right now I'm thinking that at least one of Zionite/Wuffles is scum. Wuffles because of this:
Defence is not scummy. And I ****ing hate it when people claim otherwise. If defence is a scumtell, then what's the point of playing?
Not because he said it, but how he said it. That second sentence really screams out at me that he's scum. However, I could see that he's town, and Zionite's "Wuffles is scum" "Wuffles is scum" "I don't really think wuffles is scum" bit is why I'm voting for him - Vote Zionite. I could also vote for cpe.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Based on his reaction in our exchange, I definitely changed my mind. I seriously doubt Wuffles would act like that as scum. From his day 1 play I suspected him, but I don't anymore. Bat is who i'm watching.
Yet you're in favor of a claim "to move on" already?
Correct. (Or to be more precise I'm in favour of him being brought swiftly into claim range so that we can get his claim out of the way and move on.)
The trouble is, he's been replaced. There's really nothing useful we can expect him to say regarding his play yesterday besides "Oh yes, my predecessor seems to have posted behavioural scumtells".
Right now discussion about Wuffles_II / Zionite is pretty difficult because half the active players are (perhaps correctly) focussing on CPE. I consider this a problem that wants resolving.
On the subject of which: Vote: creampuffeater (since I somewhat overcautiously FOSed him last time due to being unsure of the vote count).
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I think that it's pretty obvious that Wuffles is scum, and knows that WoD is town, and is using that knowledge in his defense of WoD. Wuffles' aggressive attitude about the whole situation makes no sense otherwise.
And I really am surprised that no one cares more that he referred to Zionite as a townie, but continued to vote for him. This is extremely relevant.
ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS CYAN?
WOD IS AS CONFIRMED AS ANY TOWNIE IN THIS GAME IS EVER GOING TO BE.
AND I HAVE EXPLAINED, AT LEAST TWO TIMES, WHY YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING ME ON WHAT YOU CALL "CALLING ZIONITE TOWN AND YET STILL VOTING HIM".
"THE MORONIC TOWNIES PISSING ME OFF" THING WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE "THAT WERE STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY FLAVOR-BASED PLAY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING "WOW, WE SHOULD STOP VOTING PEOPLE BASED ON FLAVOR".
MY GOD.
READ MY POSTS, BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND SPEWING OUT THE SAME BOLLOCKS *AGAIN* AND *AGAIN*.
* Wuffles_II hits Cyan with The Stick(TM) over and over again *
Wuffles, I'm just going to make a habbit of not reading anything you write that's in caps. If you want people to take you seriously don't yell and don't insult people.
Wuffles, I'm just going to make a habit of not reading anything you write that's in caps.
To be honest, I can't tell anymore if Wuffles is having a scum meltdown or is being an irrational townie. I don't think there's ever been enough votes on him to warrant the first reason and if he's town, then him being so driven to prove his point isn't helping his credibility any.
Wuffles, would you like to try and calmly explain yourself? Your actions thus far have been mostly distraction and obfuscation, which are by no means townie actions.
WOD IS AS CONFIRMED AS ANY TOWNIE IN THIS GAME IS EVER GOING TO BE.
AND I HAVE EXPLAINED, AT LEAST TWO TIMES, WHY YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING ME ON WHAT YOU CALL "CALLING ZIONITE TOWN AND YET STILL VOTING HIM".
"THE MORONIC TOWNIES PISSING ME OFF" THING WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE "THAT WERE STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY FLAVOR-BASED PLAY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING "WOW, WE SHOULD STOP VOTING PEOPLE BASED ON FLAVOR".
MY GOD.
READ MY POSTS, BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND SPEWING OUT THE SAME BOLLOCKS *AGAIN* AND *AGAIN*.
* Wuffles_II hits Cyan with The Stick(TM) over and over again *
WOD IS AS CONFIRMED AS ANY TOWNIE IN THIS GAME IS EVER GOING TO BE.
This is radically untrue, and you know it. We're barely into Day 2, with virtually no information about the game. There are plenty of ways that someone could end up being 'more confirmed' than WoD is now.
it just looks to me like you're overreacting, intentionally, in order to cover the fact that you have overstepped your bounds.
"THE MORONIC TOWNIES PISSING ME OFF" THING WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE "THAT WERE STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY FLAVOR-BASED PLAY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING "WOW, WE SHOULD STOP VOTING PEOPLE BASED ON FLAVOR".
A)I don't believe this, considering that the entire rest of that post was you *****ing at Zionite. And B)How does that response make any sense when the 'discussion' in question was regarding you saying that WoD is 99.9999% confirmed? Your answer still makes no sense.
In my opinion, you are just being melodramatic so that you will appear more like your 'town-self'(which is pretty ironic, all things considered).
But I don't think it's a convincing act, at all.
For those of you that think that Wuffles is acting like his normal town self. In one sense, he is. But read some of his other town games, Wuffles is NOT the type to just blindly accept a claim, no matter how confirmed it seems. His actions here a tell of inside information. Pure and simple.
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In this case you should use bandwagoning as a scumtell, instead someone's refusal to reread (and, incidentally, be suspicious of yourself for bandwagoning).
Is this saying Wuffles is scummy?
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Partly I'm trusting my gut that I'd rather wagon CPE than Wuffles right now, and part my notes yesterday didn't find CFox to be all that great.
I find posting a lot but saying nothing scummy, so yes.
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Now. To comment.
RE: Wuffles - As far as I can tell, he's just playing as normal, overreact-to-EVERYTHING, townie-wuffles.
RE: Zionite. - I didn't like his post saying Wuffles was "the play" on Day One. What I liked even less was the lack of a vote accompanying that statement. I also don't like his passive fishing today.
RE: CunningFox - After re-reading him, I have to say I'm not convinced of his scumminess. To be honest, I couldn't actually find a good reason why he was wagoned Day One in the first place.
To summarize, and in case I'm not already, Unvote: Vote Zionite.
Please PM me if interested in taking a spot.
Thanks,
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FoS Bat, his recent WIFOMy posts about Roja's death have pinged my scumdar, or what's left of it.
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Hypocrisy is very becoming of you, UberLurkerJobie! Anyone else here think we should ignore Jobie whenever he calls someone else on lurking? I know I do.
I never promised a case. I just stated my opinion on you from your day 1 behavior. An FoS. But its quickly looking like this is more about what pertains to you and not whether or not I'm scum, which I find really scummy in itself. You have quickly lost your original argument that I was 'challenging a vig' and now it has degraded into what you really don't like me for, and that is a simple 'igmeoy' post.
And if you haven't noticed, I'm being careful about my votes. I'm not going to jump on you just yet. I'm still studying you, and this entire situation. But for the record, you're squirming quite a bit from one post of pressure, and now you even have votes on you because of your overreaction and cracking under stress.
I still can't place you yet. But this is definitely helping.
Also, the excuse of being in 3 games is really not a good one. It's not our fault that you're overworking your analytical capabilities. Join less games, if you can't give 100% to each.
What, one post without mentioning that you were heinously scumfishing and I've "lost my original argument"?
Kay. Clearly, you're not giving 100% of your analytical capabilities to this game. I hope.
In post 842, you mostly talk in defense of yourself and your omgus vote rather than me being town/scum. I can tell you're acting in self interests.
My analytical abilities has nothing to do with it. My time does though, and I only have so much time to dedicate two one game out of three games along with real life plans and activities. Cases eat up at least an hour for the original draft, then there is the massive back and forth of defenses and replies that no one reads that take even more time, about 30 minutes for each. It seems like a lot of work for day 2 and for someone I'm only watching and I don't necessarily think is scum at this point.
You're calling someone out because they're acting in self interest. In a mafia game...?
I'm sorry Zionite, I made one post today that wasn't about you. I'm sorry. I still wuv you. Come out of the corner.
That being said, of COURSE people are going to defend themselves.
Defence is not scummy. And I ****ing hate it when people claim otherwise. If defence is a scumtell, then what's the point of playing?
And I'd ask you once more not to label it an OMGUS vote. It wasn't. It was you implicating me (as "the play" for the day), failing to back up your statement, and then, in a fit of scumfishing, trying to pull out the vigilante over a totally irrelevant point.
As for your time, well, I don't actually care. You said I was the play for today, and completely failed to back up your bark with some bite.
You have been playing mafia long enough to know your own limits. If you're going to keep whining about your lack of time, how about not signing up to 3 games at once next time?
Allow me to re-iterate my thoughts.
So the deal is, you're voting me because I'm...self-interested?
The reason why I was on the defensive in 842 is because a wagon sprung up on me in between. I had no choice but to defend myself while at the same time pushing for more accountability for Zionite's posting.
Making comments like that without trying to back them up is still incredibly scummy.
Anyway wuffles, you're really starting to nit-pick and that pisses me off. You're taking everything I say and using it against me in a way I didn't intend.
In all honesty, though, what did you expect?
You and Cyan, citing "self-interest" as a reason for my post being scummy is ridiculous.
Seriously, just get whatever "you had on wuffles" into the open. I want to see you justify that comment. It's going to irritate me until I get your reasons for doing so at the time.
I've stated why I've suspected you. It was a remaining feeling from day 1. I've said this several times.
Beat me to saying exactly the same thing. Also not the first person today to do the "well, I would vote CF/cpe, but he isn't here to answer so let's vote someone else".
I think it's incredibly suspect that Tilde then unvoted within half a page and went to look elsewhere. It looks VERY insincere.
Of course, that might just be Tilde being Tilde (and I'm sure someone will say so), but I hate writing off scummy actions just like that. Tilde acted really scummy in Points Mafia too, and that was because he was scum.
Nonetheless, due to the risk of Tilde just being Tilde, I would prefer to stay focussed on CPE (CunningFox).
I don't understand why the Wuffles wagon started, but more to the point it seems to have started as a way for some people to not vote for CPE, and therefore I don't rank it all that highly at the moment.
I forget if I actually voted, so unvote, vote CPE just in case.
Noted that DC is once again being sure to keep a wedge in on WoD and is generally sniping from the sidelines now that the pressure is off him. You're not forgotten DC
I don't see anything noteworthy there. Certainly nothing to "jump on". In case you haven't noticed it's the fashion at the moment for Mafia players to argue emotively, offer opinions in place of analysis and pretend levels of conviction they don't feel.
I just read the whole thread with a mental filter in place, like this:
Zionite writes: "Wuffles is the play"
I read: "I have nothing worthwhile to add at this point"
Easy!
Too many votes on CPE now for you to all be scum, so looks like people are pushing for a claim. Or, to put it another way, I'm in favour of CPE claiming since nobody's going to pay proper attention to anything else until we've dealt with him.
Unvote
FOS: CPE
(Would be a vote but I'm too rushed this morning to count up and see if he's close to a lynch.)
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<Limited Clan>
Wuffles is reading more like a furiously misunderstood townie than flailing scum. We did learn a couple useful things from this wagon however: DC likes to be as unhelpful as possible.
As for the cpe/CF wagon, could someone please point me in the direction of the beginning of CF's day one wagon? I want to understand yesterday to better understand today.
I actually kind of agree with Cyan and Zionite on this, given that it was part of the reason I suspected Wuffles Day 1; posting almost entirely in pure self-defence, surfacing whenever his name was called. Thing is, this behaviour today is not the same as the same behaviour yesterday. This entire affair began with Wuffles calling out Zionite over perceived fishing -- not the kind of passive-aggressiveness he was displaying yesterday.
Also, @BigTime:
So expressing continued suspicion of an individual and outlining scummy behaviour by said individual is being 'unhelpful'? Objecting to what I feel to be bad points is being 'unhelpful'?
Also, PKB much? Since your replacement in, you've had three posts; the first was pointless flavour agreement, the second was your vote on Wuffles accompanied by the caveat of 'I'd love to see a case against him', which reads like an open invitation for others to attack Wuffles, and the third was your equally quick unvote, taking the opportunity to toss some rather thin slime on my argumentative credibility.
...although the sad thing is that this might actually be more posts than your predecessor had.
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...double mudslinging, hold the content?
I agree with this, except for the lack of vote bit. Something about Zionite is ringing false in the course of this argument. His posts are fluctuating from ringing emotional, to sounding calculated; from aggressive to sympathetic. And I haven't forgotten his odd push at Sephiroth being town yesterday, although to be fair we've now seen that flavour is a little off.
Self-interest in a mafia game is not always helpful if one is town, which is kind of the point. I think I went over this in day 1 when bateleur was attacking me for, in his words, 'not trying to stay alive'.
The above point is also questionable. Over the months that a mafia game of this size normally lasts, availability of free time can and will fluctuate.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
What exactly do you mean by 'what was happening in the thread'? Because I'm pretty certain I was involved in pointing out questionable behaviour from bateleur.
As far as I can tell, it started because of a difference of opinion. Some people read Zionite as fishing, others thought Wuffles was overreacting in a scummy way.
Last I checked, the definition of 'sniping' didn't include 'all but rushing at someone, beating him over the head, and strip-searching him'. Also last I checked, the best way to remain hidden is not, in general, to lead an entire line of argument on one suspect.
And WoD isn't 100% confirmed, which I mentioned to debunk bateleur's point about such 'mod-confirmed townies' being targets of high priority. If even a 100% mod-confirmed townie like MMOD in WH40K wasn't a high priority, there's no reason for this one to be.
Unfortunately so. Also, nothing to say about my points against you, bateleur?
Personally not going to vote CPE without hearing from him first. I'm not a big fan of trying to drive a lynch wagon without its intended passenger.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Not really. They're weak.
I tried engaging fully with you on day one and I learned everything I care to know about you. You still seem like fairly likely scum, but I don't think I have enough to bag you. So for now you get to enjoy the freedom to quote virtually every line I type and declare it scummy.
Actually I do have something to say to you: stop triple-posting. I know why you're doing it, it's because you're too lazy to composite posts properly from across multiple pages. It's not hard, just open multiple browser windows. (In fact even that's not necessary, just cut and paste.)
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<Limited Clan>
1. Yes. All of those things are unhelpful when you consider the fact that you completly ignored a major issue of discussion. You seem like a very opinionated person. Surely you had some kind of opinion about the entire Wuffles situation. However, not only did you not voice those opinions, but you tried pulling attention completly away from it by bring up 2-3 different names to look after without a single mention of one of the towns biggest focus.
2. I'm sorry, I've had to reread about 50 pages, while still making my presence known in two other games. Oh, and I forgot, I work a third shift job on the weekends and a second shift job during the weekdays, so my time schedule gets screwed up, especially with college enrollment and everything. But I can promise you this: You can expect to see me quite a bit from here on out now that I feel I have almost fully caught up with this game.
3. I have no excuses for CP. He pulled out of all games he was in I believe, so he must have had something going on in his life at the time. Sorry...
CPE (4) - Fadeblue, Jobie, RafaelK, Alx2
Zionite (2) - Wuffles, WoD
bateleur (1) - DesCoures
Cyan (1) - Abandon Hope
Wuffles_II (1) - Cyan
With 26 alive, it is 14 to lynch.
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And I really am surprised that no one cares more that he referred to Zionite as a townie, but continued to vote for him. This is extremely relevant.
And Raf, if you think my vote on Wuffles was insincere, that's fine. DC brought up what I thought was a valid point regarding those who were leading the charge against Wuff, and I had a change of opinion because of it.
CPE on the other hand, is rapidly using up the benefit of a doubt that I was willing to give him due to his continued absence.
FOS creampuffeater. If he doesn't show up in the next day or two, this will likely become a vote.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
There are only 4 votes on CPE, which is not that much. Yet you're in favor of a claim "to move on" already?
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Because it was disgusting how much he did it yesterday.
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You're voting CPE, but you're only giving reasons as to why Wuffles is scummy.
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That said, I think that Zionite and/or cpe is the play today. Right now I'm thinking that at least one of Zionite/Wuffles is scum. Wuffles because of this:
Not because he said it, but how he said it. That second sentence really screams out at me that he's scum. However, I could see that he's town, and Zionite's "Wuffles is scum" "Wuffles is scum" "I don't really think wuffles is scum" bit is why I'm voting for him - Vote Zionite. I could also vote for cpe.
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Correct. (Or to be more precise I'm in favour of him being brought swiftly into claim range so that we can get his claim out of the way and move on.)
The trouble is, he's been replaced. There's really nothing useful we can expect him to say regarding his play yesterday besides "Oh yes, my predecessor seems to have posted behavioural scumtells".
Right now discussion about Wuffles_II / Zionite is pretty difficult because half the active players are (perhaps correctly) focussing on CPE. I consider this a problem that wants resolving.
On the subject of which: Vote: creampuffeater (since I somewhat overcautiously FOSed him last time due to being unsure of the vote count).
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I did misunderstand.
I didn't like my read on CFox from yesterday, that's why I'm voting CPE currently.
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WOD IS AS CONFIRMED AS ANY TOWNIE IN THIS GAME IS EVER GOING TO BE.
AND I HAVE EXPLAINED, AT LEAST TWO TIMES, WHY YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING ME ON WHAT YOU CALL "CALLING ZIONITE TOWN AND YET STILL VOTING HIM".
"THE MORONIC TOWNIES PISSING ME OFF" THING WAS AIMED AT PEOPLE "THAT WERE STILL TRYING TO JUSTIFY FLAVOR-BASED PLAY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING "WOW, WE SHOULD STOP VOTING PEOPLE BASED ON FLAVOR".
MY GOD.
READ MY POSTS, BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND SPEWING OUT THE SAME BOLLOCKS *AGAIN* AND *AGAIN*.
* Wuffles_II hits Cyan with The Stick(TM) over and over again *
To be honest, I can't tell anymore if Wuffles is having a scum meltdown or is being an irrational townie. I don't think there's ever been enough votes on him to warrant the first reason and if he's town, then him being so driven to prove his point isn't helping his credibility any.
Wuffles, would you like to try and calmly explain yourself? Your actions thus far have been mostly distraction and obfuscation, which are by no means townie actions.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
It should be pretty obvious that I am.
This is radically untrue, and you know it. We're barely into Day 2, with virtually no information about the game. There are plenty of ways that someone could end up being 'more confirmed' than WoD is now.
it just looks to me like you're overreacting, intentionally, in order to cover the fact that you have overstepped your bounds.
A)I don't believe this, considering that the entire rest of that post was you *****ing at Zionite. And B)How does that response make any sense when the 'discussion' in question was regarding you saying that WoD is 99.9999% confirmed? Your answer still makes no sense.
In my opinion, you are just being melodramatic so that you will appear more like your 'town-self'(which is pretty ironic, all things considered).
But I don't think it's a convincing act, at all.
For those of you that think that Wuffles is acting like his normal town self. In one sense, he is. But read some of his other town games, Wuffles is NOT the type to just blindly accept a claim, no matter how confirmed it seems. His actions here a tell of inside information. Pure and simple.