Another problem I have with the Huang Yueying claim - if someone got a role like that at the beginning of the game, that player would immediately know that there is some recruiting faction in this game. I did a quick reread of Rhino's posts, and nothing in his points seem to indicate any concern about a recruiting faction in this game. One would think that someone with that info would be actively looking for potential recruiters and be highly aware of that faction playing a critical factor in this game.
A thought experiment for everyone: Suppose you have such a role at the start of the game. So you know there's a recruiting team in the game, and you also know that the setup has 3 factions (Wei, Wu, Shu) and neutrals. Come nation claim time, you notice a distinct lack of Wu claims. In particular, 2 people claim Wu. Now, wouldn't this immediately set off alarms to you? It would seem that either the Wu are the recruiting team (2 being the correct number for such a team at that point - 1 recruit so far), or the Wu are another potential anti-town team, meaning you're facing Mafia, a shady Wu faction, AND some recruiting team. Rhino didn't seem particularly alarmed by this at all though.
Rhino also never revealed that he knew about a recruiting faction, even though it was certainly helpful information to the town that would be *lost* if he died. Cyan didn't reveal this information either until swinkee had already made his claim.
I will say that this is not damning evidence, as there may easily be possible explanations for the lack of reaction and the hiding of this information, but it is another point to consider against the validity of Cyan's claim.
EWP: Just saw Jobie's claim. It looks plausible to me, though to accept its validity means that we must either accept that both Jobie and Cyan are clear or that swinkee outed Cyan and falsely outed Jobie. I'll have to think on this.
I know this isn't really going to help me alot, but, Rhino barely posted anything before I replaced for him, and none of what he posted was helpful to the town really, so, I don't think it's surprising that he didn't provide the town with this information.
As for me..I've only been in the game(after I was finished moving, etc), for a few days now..people were already suspicious that I offered up my role name so easily, but again, I felt that this was necessary to explain my suspicions of Xyre. There was also never really a reason/opportunity to reveal this information, until it was requested. To me, it seems like something that you'd keep to yourself, so that whatever the 'Cult' faction is would hopefully waste an attempt trying to convert you. Lastly, and this is going to sound somewhat vain, possibly(but I don't intend it that way), I'm a pretty active player, and if I hadn't revealed this info, I think that there's a good chance that this Cult, whomever they are, WOULD try to recruit me, because I participate alot, and because I'm fairly aggressive and not shy about putting my vote onto someone/anyone that I think deserves it. Lastly, history should have shown by now that I'm not a big fan of people randomly throwing information into the fray just for the sake of the town knowing. I often feel, and especially in this case, that keeping the mafia from knowing is worth the price of keeping the town from knowing.
fade- I disagree. A one-shot ability that doesn't truly get any useful information for 4 nights?
Besides, Jobie just muffed it quite badly. He just claimed 4 stages of information, but he couldn't have targeted the death of MS on night 1 since it wasn't public knowledge yet. The first opportunity he would have had was night 2.
Even if the above wasn't true, however, a one-shot cop who takes 4 days to get results is so ridiculously weak I can't understand how anyone would believe it.
Kenji, you have your target for tonight.
fade, I will remember that you just tried to overlook the weakness of that claim.
fade, I will remember that you just tried to overlook the weakness of that claim.
I hope you realize I posted that right after I saw his claim, so I was basing it on my first impression. You're right about the 4 stages not adding up, though. I stand corrected.
To be fair to Fade, I thought that what Jobie said made sense also, I just didn't think about the Night 1 thing. I don't think that this really reflects badly upon Fadeblue.
Um, what? How does a doctor conflict with roleblocking?
I meant someone could have missinterpreted a doctors actions for a roleblock.
Quote from arimnaes »
Is that a claim or a joke?
Both. Actually yours was probably a rhetorical question. Oh well.
EBWODP (sorry fade): Hmm. Somehow my browser didn't show me the last three posts till after I posted. That is damning evidence. Oh well, time for swinkee to die. Unvote, vote: Swinkee
fade- I disagree. A one-shot ability that doesn't truly get any useful information for 4 nights?
Besides, Jobie just muffed it quite badly. He just claimed 4 stages of information, but he couldn't have targeted the death of MS on night 1 since it wasn't public knowledge yet. The first opportunity he would have had was night 2.
*cough* I was given both kills before the day began and then was given the info.
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I am Huang Yueying, wife of Zhuge Liang. I am Shu. I don't have an 'active' ability, but, if anyone tries to recruit me away from Shu, they will fail. The flavor behind this is that everyone except for Zhuge Liang thinks that Huang Yueying is just a plain, boring woman, and wouldn't really be interested in her.
*Xyre gets that "I told you so" look*
Vote Swinkee in case we haven't hit the number. There's no other reason why he'd claim another group unless it was a cult.
I'm still -really- busy with stuff, so lynch scene either up tonight or tommorow morning at the latest.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
@Kenji: I was told who was killed that night (MS & Hvir) and there form of death (but not there alignments). I decided to pull a CC and use my ability at first chance and decided to choose MS, based on the fact that I'd prefer to find Mafia and the throat cut sounded more SK-ish. :rolleyes:.
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Jobie- it's a nice retcon, but even if you take away the problem with the chronology it's still the Lamest Ability Ever.
One shot cop which takes four nights to get something useful? Come on.
At least in some other games, getting the rolename of the killer might be useful (Star Trek comes to mind...), but this is a game where everyone seems to have a safe claim.
Not to defend Jobie, because I don't believe that Fayul would inform him of the kills a day early when she could just shorten the length of time to receive the relevant info by a day, but the ability is not bad. The mass of info he supposedly receives is drastically better than that which a regular cop would receive, and it gives play value to multiple game angles in a productive way. I've contemplated a similar role: info like that is rarely useless, and it isn't as if he were claiming to be the cop. And hey, it's a whole heck of a lot better than being vanilla, without adding more than a drop of power to the town's side. If we turn out to be wrong and Fayul really did come up with that role, I say bravo.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I'll just post this now: I'm going to be gone until Friday the 23rd on vacation, and I doubt I'll be near a computer. I think it won't be a serious drag on the game, because night's coming and it will only be more like a week away from the game. Thanks!
The congregation gathers with the mystics, and Swinkee disappears just like the rest before him. The northern mystic smiles. "Excellent job. You have put the kingdom warfare behind you and taken one of the greatest threats to the piece here. Yes, this man was Lu Bu, the most dangerous man of his age. Good work."
The Southern mystic cuts in. "It is now NIGHT. Retire to your quarters, and good luck."
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Another Dawn breaks and you find out that your gathering is a bit light once more. Honestly, is it so much to ask to go one night without kills?
The northern mystic gathers you around. There is only one of you missing. Let's take you straight to him, I supposed." He pulls out his all-too-familiar mirror to show a man lying face down in a thicket, blood pooled around his head, probably from a cut throat. "This is Mi Heng (carrionpidgeons). A rather annoying fellow, but he was a loyal one, to be sure. Good luck avenging him.
The southern mystic pipes up once more. "There are 11 of you here, so once 6 of you can come to consensus the day will be complete. Good luck."
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Interesting..unless there are multiple RBs in this game, I don't think that Kenji was RBed. I say this, because I received a RB via taunting(it said that I go try to kill the guy that taunted me too, but, can't find him) message. I wonder what happened w/ Kenji.
Interesting..unless there are multiple RBs in this game, I don't think that Kenji was RBed. I say this, because I received a RB via taunting(it said that I go try to kill the guy that taunted me too, but, can't find him) message. I wonder what happened w/ Kenji.
Why would someone RB you, with your semi-worthless ability? Vote: Cyan. Either: you got recruited into something last night, or you're lieing about your ability and you are scum. I ask you all: "Why would the scum waste their RB on someone with such a weak ability?"
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Why would someone RB you, with your semi-worthless ability? Vote: Cyan. Either: you got recruited into something last night, or you're lieing about your ability and you are scum. I ask you all: "Why would the scum waste their RB on someone with such a weak ability?"
Why would I randomly lie about being RBed, heh. I don't gain anything out of it, all it tells me is that CP didn't believe my claim. Azrael got RBed before, with the same flavor message basically, and he also doesn't have an active ability. Also, CarrionPigeons was the roleblocker, and he was not scum, so I'd have to say that this completely invalidates your desperate attempt here.
Well, he has a point there, unless someone else counterclaims to be roleblocked by CP. We already have confirmation from CP and Azrael that cp's roleblock ability shows up that way. And Cyan was claimed by swinkee to be part of the "Dong Zhuo mafia".
What's interesting, though, is there was no second kill last night. Either swinkee was the only killer for the Dong Zhuo mafia (which would be dodgy, how do they win without him? Why would they throw him overboard? I'd say they just don't exist, but Jobie confirmed they do...) or else something happened to the second kill last night. When Cyan was blocked. Quite a nice coincidence.
Between that and the problems with Jobie's claim, it's quite possible that swinkee really did spill the truth to us out of anger.
Kenji: If you got the wrong PM, and it gives away info you're not meant to have, you may need to consider being replaced unless it's not too important. We've seen what happens when someone has knowledge they shouldn't and tries to act like they don't know (coughAzraelVecnacough). It's not pretty, and it's a pretty sucky way for a game to end. We're doing well enough that I'm not exactly clutching for a way to win the game right now.
Interesting..unless there are multiple RBs in this game, I don't think that Kenji was RBed. I say this, because I received a RB via taunting(it said that I go try to kill the guy that taunted me too, but, can't find him) message. I wonder what happened w/ Kenji.
That's interesting. When I was role-blocked, nothing of the kind happened.
Unless we had a sucessful doc protect last night, I think there's an awfully good chance that a roleblock(s) was responsible for our missing kill(s). And that would tend to implicate Cyan much more than Kenji, given the Swinkee incident from yesterday and the lack of anyone counter-claiming Kenji.
Also, if Cyan and/or Jobie really are scum, then it would certainly make a lot of sense for them to want to role-block Kenji's kill last night.
I don't think we should rush to lynch cyan. Patience. I am unnerved by Azrael's vote. Sometimes he doesn't vote even when it's an obvious scum. Why push this lynch?
I don't think we should rush to lynch cyan. Patience. I am unnerved by Azrael's vote. Sometimes he doesn't vote even when it's an obvious scum. Why push this lynch?
We're at two votes, the day is moving sluggishly, and Cyan/Jobie have been squarely in our sights since the shakeup yesterday. They've given us sketchy claims, and the role-blocks are fishy. I want to hear a defense from them, if they have one, and the discussion can go forward from there. I'm not at all afraid of an accidental speed lynch ATM, and the thread could use a little kick to get it started.
(Typically I'm restrained with my votes because I like to see how others are going to place their votes, without any input or interference from me. But at the moment, I don't think there's much information to be gained from that. Our best source of info is to begin pressuring Cyan and Jobie for answers.)
The plan yesterday was more or less to lynch the claimed SK (swinkee) and rely on Kenji to deal with Jobie. Something prevented Kenji from doing so, but we don't know what yet and it might take a day or two for him to work through that with Fayul.
We've already had claims for Cyan and Jobie in any case. Unless they have more to say, or unless someone has new evidence pointing elsewhere, I think waiting to hear from Kenji (or a replacement Kenji if needed) is wise. I can't see much reason to not follow through and just lynch Jobie at this point, though, pending some revelation from Kenji or from someone who hasn't spoken yet today.
I have no problem putting us at three votes, and getting the pressure going here on Cyan. swinkee's information yesterday, seemed, in my eyes, to be move out of frustration, and very possibly correct information.
@Azrael: Maybe he added that part for credibility purposes? Otherwise, it'd just look like I copy/pasted what you said.
Also..your assertation is what, the I made up being RBed by CP, and RBed Kenji myself..of course, that would lay to waste Swinkee's theory that he was just an 'agent' of 'the Dong Zhuo Mafia'(since, if this supposed DZ Mafia existed, and could kill, and Dong Zhuo=me, clearly I would have just NKed Kenji. Your theory that I RBed him disproves any theory that I could be Dong Zhuo and have the ability to order other people in my 'mafia' to NK people.
Also, there is still the fact that CP RBed me..assuming that I didn't randomly make this up for no reason whatsoever, if I was RBed, it would be impossible for me to perform any action, including a RB, on Kenji.
Also, I agree w/ Az that pressuring myself and Jobie is the correct play. If it wasn't me in this situation, I'd do the same thing. For that matter, if I could do so without just being accused of distraction/distancing, I'd try to grill Jobie.
@Azrael: Maybe he added that part for credibility purposes? Otherwise, it'd just look like I copy/pasted what you said.
Also..your assertation is what, the I made up being RBed by CP, and RBed Kenji myself..of course, that would lay to waste Swinkee's theory that he was just an 'agent' of 'the Dong Zhuo Mafia'(since, if this supposed DZ Mafia existed, and could kill, and Dong Zhuo=me, clearly I would have just NKed Kenji. Your theory that I RBed him disproves any theory that I could be Dong Zhuo and have the ability to order other people in my 'mafia' to NK people.
Also, there is still the fact that CP RBed me..assuming that I didn't randomly make this up for no reason whatsoever, if I was RBed, it would be impossible for me to perform any action, including a RB, on Kenji.
Also, I agree w/ Az that pressuring myself and Jobie is the correct play. If it wasn't me in this situation, I'd do the same thing. For that matter, if I could do so without just being accused of distraction/distancing, I'd try to grill Jobie.
I never argued that you specifically blocked Kenji: I said that you and Jobie would have excellent reason to want to have Kenji blocked.
Unless we had a sucessful doc protect last night, I think there's an awfully good chance that a roleblock(s) was responsible for our missing kill(s). And that would tend to implicate Cyan much more than Kenji, given the Swinkee incident from yesterday and the lack of anyone counter-claiming Kenji.
Also, if Cyan and/or Jobie really are scum, then it would certainly make a lot of sense for them to want to role-block Kenji's kill last night
Not only do you state that it 'implicates' me more than Kenji(I kind of got lost with what you're trying to say in that first part, I'm not even sure A)what it implicates me of or B)why Kenji could remotely be implicated in the first place.
Also, in the second part, you say that it would make alot of sense for myself/Jobie to want to RB Kenji, not to want to see him RBed. There's a huge difference, one implies that we were somehow responsible, which wouldn't make sense...if everything Swinkee said were true, we simply would have tried to kill Kenji.
Anyway, I agree, Kenji not having a successful NK is definetely nice for both Jobie and myself..that is utterly obvious and utterly undeniable, so, I"m not sure why you would feel the need to mention it anyway.
We're at two votes, the day is moving sluggishly, and Cyan/Jobie have been squarely in our sights since the shakeup yesterday. They've given us sketchy claims, and the role-blocks are fishy. I want to hear a defense from them, if they have one, and the discussion can go forward from there. I'm not at all afraid of an accidental speed lynch ATM, and the thread could use a little kick to get it started.
For what exactly am I defending myself? I bagged us the SK (or Neutral killer as Fayul labeled him), and he accused me to be part of a Mafia which I was told he was a part of. Period.
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For what exactly am I defending myself? I bagged us the SK (or Neutral killer as Fayul labeled him), and he accused me to be part of a Mafia which I was told he was a part of. Period.
The problems I see is that your ability is implausible, that your sacrifice of Swinkee looked like a scum gambit at a moment of convenience, and that Kenji was oh-so-conveniently blocked last night.
Quote from Cyan »
Not only do you state that it 'implicates' me more than Kenji(I kind of got lost with what you're trying to say in that first part, I'm not even sure A)what it implicates me of or B)why Kenji could remotely be implicated in the first place.
Normally we could expect more kills than we saw, even though we eliminated Lu Bu yesterday. At least one kill last night was blocked. That means that we most likely had one of the towns' remaining scum groups become blocked. That implicates either you or Kenji as being members of one of the remaining scum groups.
I suppose the loophole to that is if Swinkee was merely an ordinary SK, but that's not the hypothesis I'm working under, given your reaction yesterday and Swinkee's behavior during his breakdown.
Quote from Cyan »
Also, in the second part, you say that it would make alot of sense for myself/Jobie to want to RB Kenji, not to want to see him RBed. There's a huge difference, one implies that we were somehow responsible, which wouldn't make sense...if everything Swinkee said were true, we simply would have tried to kill Kenji.
Anyway, I agree, Kenji not having a successful NK is definetely nice for both Jobie and myself..that is utterly obvious and utterly undeniable, so, I"m not sure why you would feel the need to mention it anyway.
The two of you stood to gain if Kenji was role-blocked, and last night, Kenji was either role-blocked, or he lied to us about being blocked this morning. Since he wasn't counter-claimed, I tend to trust him more than the two of you, and I believe that he really was role-blocked. That tends to make me suspect that one of you was probably responsible for blocking him.
As for why Kenji wasn't night-killed, there are several possible explanations. You might need to recruit another killer, or the roleblock on you may have prevented the kill, or Kenji might have been doc-protected (which isn't too difficult to believe, given the circumstances.) That's all speculation, but it's also very much within the realm of possibility.
Errr, If you're asking everyone, I'm not responsible for the last night block Kenji.
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I did not cause the block. I have an alternate theory, however:
Could the block have come from the Wei? In case they thought the Dong Zhou mafia would eventually start killing again, or if they didn't believe it existed and wanted to force us to lynch one of Cyan/Jobie rather than getting to vig them.
Well, Kenji's block claim appears corroborated by cp's earlier claim of such a block - so unless Kenji is the blocker or is teammates with the blocker, we can believe his claim. And since he's claimed vig and hasn't been counterclaimed, I think that makes it fairly certain he's telling the truth.
So we have someone out there with this ability. What concerns me is that it has been described as a "protective aura", which means that this person may in fact be a doctor-type role. Alignment is still questionable, though.
I do still think the correct play is to follow up with Cyan/Jobie, given swinkee's accusations and Cyan's reactions. I've just been waiting to see if people have anything in particular they'd like to discuss before ending the day.
In any case, just some food for thought (this should not be factored into any decisions - I just thought it intriguing):
1a) swinkee (Lu Bu) was a claimed mason with MS (Ding Yuan) but killed him.
1b) Lu Bu was a trusted aide of Ding Yuan. Lu Bu was persuaded by Dong Zhuo to kill Ding Yuan.
2a) swinkee claims that Cyan is Dong Zhuo and Jobie is Diao Chan, and he was convinced by Jobie to join them.
2b) Not quite true to the story, since Lu Bu joined Dong Zhuo without Diao Chan's persuasion (but Diao Chan did eventually become betrothed to Lu Bu and manipulated him into killing Dong Zhuo).
If swinkee's claims are true, it seems that we have a little subplot in this game among a small set of roles (which we may have foiled). What makes this odd though is that these connections apparently transpired the first night - Lu Bu killing Ding Yuan, Dong Zhuo and Diao Chan recruiting Lu Bu. It would be way too coincidental if those choices had been made by chance, which means that perhaps these roles were set up to interact from the very start? I'm very curious to see what this is all about.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Protective aura doesn't sound doctorish, especially in the context of the people who have already died. I'm thinking unnightkillable person, which doesn't seem like a scum possibility. I'd personally like to know which of the two Kenji targeted. If it was Jobie, then perhaps swinkee was lying to save his own skin.
I'm somewhat inclined to believe Cyan's lackluster ability; however, what bothers me the most is that he didn't come forward with his role until long after I had presented the idea of a cult for the first time. If he was town and unrecruitable, it would make more sense for him to come forward immediately so we would know swinkee was reaching for straws.
However, I'm considering the possibility that Cyan fabricated the ability to mask something after he noticed the favor for the cult ability. Perhaps instead Cyan is Wei, Jobie is unnightkillable Shu, and we have our scum. It would make more sense as to why swinkee would make such a foolish mistake in coming forward, unless he wanted to save his skin. I have a hunch there was no cult, and instead swinkee just got lucky in fingering Cyan. Takers?
Protective aura doesn't sound doctorish, especially in the context of the people who have already died. I'm thinking unnightkillable person, which doesn't seem like a scum possibility. I'd personally like to know which of the two Kenji targeted. If it was Jobie, then perhaps swinkee was lying to save his own skin.
The aura is partly corroborated by carrion pigeons - he was also blocked by an aura on a previous night. So why are you considering an unnightkillable person? Are you trying to "clear" someone?
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A thought experiment for everyone: Suppose you have such a role at the start of the game. So you know there's a recruiting team in the game, and you also know that the setup has 3 factions (Wei, Wu, Shu) and neutrals. Come nation claim time, you notice a distinct lack of Wu claims. In particular, 2 people claim Wu. Now, wouldn't this immediately set off alarms to you? It would seem that either the Wu are the recruiting team (2 being the correct number for such a team at that point - 1 recruit so far), or the Wu are another potential anti-town team, meaning you're facing Mafia, a shady Wu faction, AND some recruiting team. Rhino didn't seem particularly alarmed by this at all though.
Rhino also never revealed that he knew about a recruiting faction, even though it was certainly helpful information to the town that would be *lost* if he died. Cyan didn't reveal this information either until swinkee had already made his claim.
I will say that this is not damning evidence, as there may easily be possible explanations for the lack of reaction and the hiding of this information, but it is another point to consider against the validity of Cyan's claim.
EWP: Just saw Jobie's claim. It looks plausible to me, though to accept its validity means that we must either accept that both Jobie and Cyan are clear or that swinkee outed Cyan and falsely outed Jobie. I'll have to think on this.
As for me..I've only been in the game(after I was finished moving, etc), for a few days now..people were already suspicious that I offered up my role name so easily, but again, I felt that this was necessary to explain my suspicions of Xyre. There was also never really a reason/opportunity to reveal this information, until it was requested. To me, it seems like something that you'd keep to yourself, so that whatever the 'Cult' faction is would hopefully waste an attempt trying to convert you. Lastly, and this is going to sound somewhat vain, possibly(but I don't intend it that way), I'm a pretty active player, and if I hadn't revealed this info, I think that there's a good chance that this Cult, whomever they are, WOULD try to recruit me, because I participate alot, and because I'm fairly aggressive and not shy about putting my vote onto someone/anyone that I think deserves it. Lastly, history should have shown by now that I'm not a big fan of people randomly throwing information into the fray just for the sake of the town knowing. I often feel, and especially in this case, that keeping the mafia from knowing is worth the price of keeping the town from knowing.
Besides, Jobie just muffed it quite badly. He just claimed 4 stages of information, but he couldn't have targeted the death of MS on night 1 since it wasn't public knowledge yet. The first opportunity he would have had was night 2.
Even if the above wasn't true, however, a one-shot cop who takes 4 days to get results is so ridiculously weak I can't understand how anyone would believe it.
Kenji, you have your target for tonight.
fade, I will remember that you just tried to overlook the weakness of that claim.
vote swinkee
I hope you realize I posted that right after I saw his claim, so I was basing it on my first impression. You're right about the 4 stages not adding up, though. I stand corrected.
To be fair to Fade, I thought that what Jobie said made sense also, I just didn't think about the Night 1 thing. I don't think that this really reflects badly upon Fadeblue.
Both. Actually yours was probably a rhetorical question. Oh well.
EBWODP (sorry fade): Hmm. Somehow my browser didn't show me the last three posts till after I posted. That is damning evidence. Oh well, time for swinkee to die. Unvote, vote: Swinkee
Anything else to discuss, before night-time?
I'm reserving the victory party for when we find Cao Cao.
*cough* I was given both kills before the day began and then was given the info.
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*Xyre gets that "I told you so" look*
Vote Swinkee in case we haven't hit the number. There's no other reason why he'd claim another group unless it was a cult.
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I'm still -really- busy with stuff, so lynch scene either up tonight or tommorow morning at the latest.
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One shot cop which takes four nights to get something useful? Come on.
At least in some other games, getting the rolename of the killer might be useful (Star Trek comes to mind...), but this is a game where everyone seems to have a safe claim.
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That is not a lynch, folks, I apologize. Here is the current votecount 9 ibelieve.)
Swinkee 6 (RafaelK, carrion pigeons, Arimnaes, Kenji, Abandon Hope, Xyre)
Kenji 2 (Azrael, KeeperEUSC)
Xyre 2 (loran16, swinkee)
Not voting: fadeblue, Jobie, Cyan
7 to Lynch.
Thank god nobody made a death post.
Again, I apologize profusely.
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Unvote, Vote swinkee
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The congregation gathers with the mystics, and Swinkee disappears just like the rest before him. The northern mystic smiles. "Excellent job. You have put the kingdom warfare behind you and taken one of the greatest threats to the piece here. Yes, this man was Lu Bu, the most dangerous man of his age. Good work."
The Southern mystic cuts in. "It is now NIGHT. Retire to your quarters, and good luck."
Final votecount:
Swinkee 8 (RafaelK, carrion pigeons, Arimnaes, Kenji, Abandon Hope, Xyre, Jobie, Cyan)
Kenji 2 (Azrael, KeeperEUSC)
Xyre 2 (loran16, swinkee)
Not voting: fadeblue
Day will begin at 7:12 PM PST on Saturday, June 17.
The northern mystic gathers you around. There is only one of you missing. Let's take you straight to him, I supposed." He pulls out his all-too-familiar mirror to show a man lying face down in a thicket, blood pooled around his head, probably from a cut throat. "This is Mi Heng (carrionpidgeons). A rather annoying fellow, but he was a loyal one, to be sure. Good luck avenging him.
The southern mystic pipes up once more. "There are 11 of you here, so once 6 of you can come to consensus the day will be complete. Good luck."
Bah.
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Why would I randomly lie about being RBed, heh. I don't gain anything out of it, all it tells me is that CP didn't believe my claim. Azrael got RBed before, with the same flavor message basically, and he also doesn't have an active ability. Also, CarrionPigeons was the roleblocker, and he was not scum, so I'd have to say that this completely invalidates your desperate attempt here.
What's interesting, though, is there was no second kill last night. Either swinkee was the only killer for the Dong Zhuo mafia (which would be dodgy, how do they win without him? Why would they throw him overboard? I'd say they just don't exist, but Jobie confirmed they do...) or else something happened to the second kill last night. When Cyan was blocked. Quite a nice coincidence.
Between that and the problems with Jobie's claim, it's quite possible that swinkee really did spill the truth to us out of anger.
Kenji: If you got the wrong PM, and it gives away info you're not meant to have, you may need to consider being replaced unless it's not too important. We've seen what happens when someone has knowledge they shouldn't and tries to act like they don't know (coughAzraelVecnacough). It's not pretty, and it's a pretty sucky way for a game to end. We're doing well enough that I'm not exactly clutching for a way to win the game right now.
That's interesting. When I was role-blocked, nothing of the kind happened.
Unless we had a sucessful doc protect last night, I think there's an awfully good chance that a roleblock(s) was responsible for our missing kill(s). And that would tend to implicate Cyan much more than Kenji, given the Swinkee incident from yesterday and the lack of anyone counter-claiming Kenji.
Also, if Cyan and/or Jobie really are scum, then it would certainly make a lot of sense for them to want to role-block Kenji's kill last night.
FOS Cyan/Jobie, vote Cyan.
We're at two votes, the day is moving sluggishly, and Cyan/Jobie have been squarely in our sights since the shakeup yesterday. They've given us sketchy claims, and the role-blocks are fishy. I want to hear a defense from them, if they have one, and the discussion can go forward from there. I'm not at all afraid of an accidental speed lynch ATM, and the thread could use a little kick to get it started.
(Typically I'm restrained with my votes because I like to see how others are going to place their votes, without any input or interference from me. But at the moment, I don't think there's much information to be gained from that. Our best source of info is to begin pressuring Cyan and Jobie for answers.)
We've already had claims for Cyan and Jobie in any case. Unless they have more to say, or unless someone has new evidence pointing elsewhere, I think waiting to hear from Kenji (or a replacement Kenji if needed) is wise. I can't see much reason to not follow through and just lynch Jobie at this point, though, pending some revelation from Kenji or from someone who hasn't spoken yet today.
FOS: Cyan and Jobie
I have no problem putting us at three votes, and getting the pressure going here on Cyan. swinkee's information yesterday, seemed, in my eyes, to be move out of frustration, and very possibly correct information.
Vote: Cyan
We're at 3 right now.
Also..your assertation is what, the I made up being RBed by CP, and RBed Kenji myself..of course, that would lay to waste Swinkee's theory that he was just an 'agent' of 'the Dong Zhuo Mafia'(since, if this supposed DZ Mafia existed, and could kill, and Dong Zhuo=me, clearly I would have just NKed Kenji. Your theory that I RBed him disproves any theory that I could be Dong Zhuo and have the ability to order other people in my 'mafia' to NK people.
Also, there is still the fact that CP RBed me..assuming that I didn't randomly make this up for no reason whatsoever, if I was RBed, it would be impossible for me to perform any action, including a RB, on Kenji.
Also, I agree w/ Az that pressuring myself and Jobie is the correct play. If it wasn't me in this situation, I'd do the same thing. For that matter, if I could do so without just being accused of distraction/distancing, I'd try to grill Jobie.
I never argued that you specifically blocked Kenji: I said that you and Jobie would have excellent reason to want to have Kenji blocked.
Not only do you state that it 'implicates' me more than Kenji(I kind of got lost with what you're trying to say in that first part, I'm not even sure A)what it implicates me of or B)why Kenji could remotely be implicated in the first place.
Also, in the second part, you say that it would make alot of sense for myself/Jobie to want to RB Kenji, not to want to see him RBed. There's a huge difference, one implies that we were somehow responsible, which wouldn't make sense...if everything Swinkee said were true, we simply would have tried to kill Kenji.
Anyway, I agree, Kenji not having a successful NK is definetely nice for both Jobie and myself..that is utterly obvious and utterly undeniable, so, I"m not sure why you would feel the need to mention it anyway.
For what exactly am I defending myself? I bagged us the SK (or Neutral killer as Fayul labeled him), and he accused me to be part of a Mafia which I was told he was a part of. Period.
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The problems I see is that your ability is implausible, that your sacrifice of Swinkee looked like a scum gambit at a moment of convenience, and that Kenji was oh-so-conveniently blocked last night.
Normally we could expect more kills than we saw, even though we eliminated Lu Bu yesterday. At least one kill last night was blocked. That means that we most likely had one of the towns' remaining scum groups become blocked. That implicates either you or Kenji as being members of one of the remaining scum groups.
I suppose the loophole to that is if Swinkee was merely an ordinary SK, but that's not the hypothesis I'm working under, given your reaction yesterday and Swinkee's behavior during his breakdown.
The two of you stood to gain if Kenji was role-blocked, and last night, Kenji was either role-blocked, or he lied to us about being blocked this morning. Since he wasn't counter-claimed, I tend to trust him more than the two of you, and I believe that he really was role-blocked. That tends to make me suspect that one of you was probably responsible for blocking him.
As for why Kenji wasn't night-killed, there are several possible explanations. You might need to recruit another killer, or the roleblock on you may have prevented the kill, or Kenji might have been doc-protected (which isn't too difficult to believe, given the circumstances.) That's all speculation, but it's also very much within the realm of possibility.
'ello??? Anyone alive in here??
*cocks head, listens*
*curls up and takes a nap*
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Could the block have come from the Wei? In case they thought the Dong Zhou mafia would eventually start killing again, or if they didn't believe it existed and wanted to force us to lynch one of Cyan/Jobie rather than getting to vig them.
So we have someone out there with this ability. What concerns me is that it has been described as a "protective aura", which means that this person may in fact be a doctor-type role. Alignment is still questionable, though.
I do still think the correct play is to follow up with Cyan/Jobie, given swinkee's accusations and Cyan's reactions. I've just been waiting to see if people have anything in particular they'd like to discuss before ending the day.
In any case, just some food for thought (this should not be factored into any decisions - I just thought it intriguing):
1a) swinkee (Lu Bu) was a claimed mason with MS (Ding Yuan) but killed him.
1b) Lu Bu was a trusted aide of Ding Yuan. Lu Bu was persuaded by Dong Zhuo to kill Ding Yuan.
2a) swinkee claims that Cyan is Dong Zhuo and Jobie is Diao Chan, and he was convinced by Jobie to join them.
2b) Not quite true to the story, since Lu Bu joined Dong Zhuo without Diao Chan's persuasion (but Diao Chan did eventually become betrothed to Lu Bu and manipulated him into killing Dong Zhuo).
If swinkee's claims are true, it seems that we have a little subplot in this game among a small set of roles (which we may have foiled). What makes this odd though is that these connections apparently transpired the first night - Lu Bu killing Ding Yuan, Dong Zhuo and Diao Chan recruiting Lu Bu. It would be way too coincidental if those choices had been made by chance, which means that perhaps these roles were set up to interact from the very start? I'm very curious to see what this is all about.
Not voting: fadeblue, Jobie, Cyan, RafaelK, Arimnaes, loran16, abandon hope, Kenji , Xyre
6 to Lynch.
I'm somewhat inclined to believe Cyan's lackluster ability; however, what bothers me the most is that he didn't come forward with his role until long after I had presented the idea of a cult for the first time. If he was town and unrecruitable, it would make more sense for him to come forward immediately so we would know swinkee was reaching for straws.
However, I'm considering the possibility that Cyan fabricated the ability to mask something after he noticed the favor for the cult ability. Perhaps instead Cyan is Wei, Jobie is unnightkillable Shu, and we have our scum. It would make more sense as to why swinkee would make such a foolish mistake in coming forward, unless he wanted to save his skin. I have a hunch there was no cult, and instead swinkee just got lucky in fingering Cyan. Takers?
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The aura is partly corroborated by carrion pigeons - he was also blocked by an aura on a previous night. So why are you considering an unnightkillable person? Are you trying to "clear" someone?