I dont think that pick the next claim is that hard, as u can just on hunches, but I guess I would not be HUGELY opposed to a random order. Only question is... who would generate said order? This is a big reason that I oppose it.
Also, CPE, dont u think that claiming clanmates makes it easier for the mafia to work together?
Sigh, back from work, and I already answered this...but..
1) Yes
2) clan name first...then discrepencies.
3) zip
-Alpha
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Aight, Alpha is our 9th person in favor of a mass claim (aka half the town). I assume that this means that we will now follow through with it. The only question is how.
I guess it does help the mafia, but also think if they have to claim names and they all go in one clan if 1 dies we know all of the mafia. besides its harder to sneak into a clan or do other fishy things.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
O ya, people should also probably mention what order they would prefer. Keep in mind that it is looking like a clan name claim is going to win the poll (just judging from the votes we have so far).
Who do we trust to come up with a random order? Random.org will print out a sequence, but someone will have to copy&paste that over here, and for that we'd have to find someone we trust, and there I've got no idea who to suggest.
Also, I have a feeling that this game will be cited for quite some time as an example of a game gone horribly wrong. (Hopefully as in broken by a mass claim, as opposed to worst town play ever.)
Doesn't this forum have a dice function? Whenever somebody claims, that person could just assign arbitrary numbers to the remaing unclaimed players and roll a die with that many sides. It also keeps the order from being known ahead of time.
We apparently do have a dice function here, thus, if I were claiming, after my clan I could put:
2. mmod
3. Enigma91
4. Chimpanzee
5. SorryGuy
6. Lord Rahl
7. Machin Shin
8. Treigit
9. S_K171
10. sgdre
11. matjoeman
12. diggy
14. WOLG
15. creampuffeater
16. ikerr
17. AlphaInsidious
18. Abandon Hope
19. rianalnn
20. lil akroma
and then [dice=1]20[/dice*] resulting in
Dice Roller1 D20 rolled
5
Then whomever's number comes up gets to post next (eventually renumbering would be called for. Also, this previews as random num=3, if that's the final, this might not work, unless the numbers assigned to players are fixed.
1) yes
2) clan name claim
3) nothing
I'm mostly for the dice idea... though you can keep rolling that way until you get who you want so it's not that "random". Very difficult to come up with a totally random method...
Also is anyone other than sgdre pushing for abandon hope to go first?
While I do think that Abandon has been rather scummy, it's day one, and there's not enough evidence against anyone, thus my advocacy of a random order.
Also, I checked the dice, there's no way to get their results before you post, so they seem like a good random method.
I agree with Treigit that this game will be mentioned as having gone horribly wrong, either from a design standpoint if this actually breaks the game, or from the play of one faction.
*sigh* Well this is apparently happening, despite the good arguments against it. It seems that people are looking at the possible good things that could come out of a claim and ignoring the bad, but since everybody has voted, I guess I'll go along since I don't have a choice.
As for the order of the claim, I am in favor of using the dice to determine who claims next. Less chance for the mafia/neutral/SK to manipulate it in their favor that way. I will Unvote sgdre, FOS sgdre as it appears most of the town agrees with him, but I think he should be our primary suspect, depending on how this claim goes. I tend to believe SorryGuy that he is neutral and not anti-town, and either way, I don't think we lose a whole lot by leaving him alive for a while. Obviously, if we have nothing else to go by, we can pursue him later, if this stupid claim doesn't turn anything up, like I expect to happen.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
I will happily claim first if it means that we are using the pick who claims next plan. I guess that the random method is fine as well, I just think that picking is both easy and diffiicult to really take advantage of (for scum). It makes it likely that scummier players will claim towards the begining, which makes it harder for them to know what to do.
My suspicion of AH comes mainly from his oposition to the claim ( thought he had poor reasoning).
K-o, comp sucks, but I am in favor of everyone claiming, and to keep the confusion about who goes first: Me and Alpha are in a clan. Out former member was D_M...not hard to guess: We're the gaymers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Well, hmm, quite obviously I'll confirm that...we're the Gaymers..
-Alpha
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Please, no more claims before we decide on a pick order or, decide who claims first and how they determine the pick order.
I actually like sgdre's order proposal as well. The problem I see with it is that it puts us in a bit of a slump if someone refuses to go along with it. If, for example player A claims and chooses player B to claim next, what do we do if player B calls the plan stupid and takes no part in it? Does player A pick the next claimant too? With random we could just add player B to our to-lynch list and anyone could post a new random number.
Actually putting all that down has helped me compose my thoughts. I think we should start with sgdre's plan, (either w/ Abandon or a Random Choice claiming first) and then if someone refuses to claim or pick the next claimant, we can Randomly select them.
Heh. Well so much for cunning plans, but what good has ever come of those? Seriously, it's not to late to call the mass claim off, lynch SorryGuy, and forget this madness ever happened.
@My Clan: Any time you're ready to claim, go ahead. I doubt there's any way of stopping this.
WoLG, I have absolutely no idea why you would do that. We have been talking about how ppl shouldnt just randomly claim so that we would be able to try to catch mafia in a lie. Obv this does not make u seem scum (as you claimed a clan garaunteed to be townie), but it was NOT a helpful move.
I dont really see why womeone wouldnt go through with the claim if it is agreed upon by the town. If there is such a person they better start explaining themselves now. Also, I think the proper way to handle that situation is to go on with the claim and then lynch the person afterwards.
PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM RANDOMLY. LET US FIGURE OUT AN ORDER AS A TOWN.
So far you have said that your plan would involve individuals claiming first, right? It sounds like a decent idea to reduce mafia flexibility, but are there any other parts to this plan that you can tell us without ruining the plan? You aren't completely cleared so it's not a good idea to put blind faith in someone in a game of mafia.
I can't reveal much more. It involves individuals claiming first. The first step is for the individuals to claim. Based on that other stuff happens that I'm not going to reveal. It's basically no-risk. We're going to all claim anyways right? This has a chance of catching mafia, but it might not. So when we start claiming let me post first before everyone starts claiming.
I guess I could go along with MMod's plan, although I would prefer not to place too much trust in any one person. I can't see so much risk here to vehemently oppose it.
I think we should start with sgdre's plan, (either w/ Abandon or a Random Choice claiming first) and then if someone refuses to claim or pick the next claimant, we can Randomly select them.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Player X claims and names player Y and does a die roll.
Either
a. Player Y claims and we go on
or
b. Player Y refuses and we go with the die roll and probably add player Y onto the lynch for later list.
Personally, I think that MMoD's plan is a little complex. It seems slightly less orderly than having a claim order (either random or pick next). I am afraid that doing it will lead to stallage. Either way we should start some sort of claim soon. Im getting angsty.
EBWODP: I forgot to mention this, but I dont really think that it is necessary to figure out what we will do if someone doesnt claim when they are supposed to. People should follow what the town wants to do. Period. If there is a serious issue we can cross that bridge when we come to it no?
I can definitely see the advantages of having individuals claim first, so I am willing to go along with MMoD's plan if I am correctly interpreting what his idea is.
I dislike the random order since it gives the mafia the best chance of at least some of them being able to figure out a convenient claim. If we go with either a claim in order of scumminess or a method that reduces the potential for deception (which MMoD's does by what I am interpreting) it is less likely that they will be able to come up with safe claims.
How long should we wait before going ahead with a claim? This day has already taken 9 days and I am beginning to get worried about a deadline being set before we can finish a claim.
It would seem unreasonable to set a deadline with this much activity in the thread. Also, day ones always take a while.
I did finally remember why I had beef with MMoD's plan. It makes it less likely that scum will false claim a clan that someone else is a member of (because all the individual clans will have claimed). I am not sure this is a huge deal.
I agree chimp, that is why I favor the "pick next" method.
[quote=Sorry Guy]
Claim, scum. Meh, one catchs the other. Sorry for the typo.[/Sorry Guy] Vote Sorry Guy. Obviously not town, no need to go to claims now. Wait, we already knew that.
Okay, I guess we can try MMoD's method, one question, are you going to hand us a claim order now, or how does that get determined?
Can we get a vote for whether we want to do claim next person or random. We could also just do the order by next person first, then the claim (as a compromise between next person and MMoD's plan.)
MMoD is saying that any further info will "ruin the plan." If he asks for anything too strange we can just choose not to go along with it and go back to one of the other methods.
Also, I just went over to random.org, it's quite simple to generate a random sequence from 1-20 (we can just ignore numbers 1 and 13).
It might not even work, it balances on one thing I'm not sure of. Well actually it could work either way so... it might or might not catch scum.
Also, CPE, dont u think that claiming clanmates makes it easier for the mafia to work together?
______________________________________________________
PPL in favor of the clan name claim:
SGDre
MMoD
Chimp
SorryGuy
Matjoeman
Treigit (wants random claim order)
CPE*
PPL in favor of clanmate claim:
Ikker
CPE*
PPL in favor of no claim:
Abandon Hope
PPL yet to voice opinion (since I asked):
not as many, but still a fair number
1) Yes
2) clan name first...then discrepencies.
3) zip
-Alpha
Clanname claim:
SGDre
MMoD
Chimp
SorryGuy
Matjoeman
Treigit (wants random claim order)
CPE*
Alphainsidious
Clanmate claim:
Ikker
CPE*
Abandon Hope
*CPE wants some sort of hybrid
O ya, people should also probably mention what order they would prefer. Keep in mind that it is looking like a clan name claim is going to win the poll (just judging from the votes we have so far).
Also, I have a feeling that this game will be cited for quite some time as an example of a game gone horribly wrong. (Hopefully as in broken by a mass claim, as opposed to worst town play ever.)
2. mmod
3. Enigma91
4. Chimpanzee
5. SorryGuy
6. Lord Rahl
7. Machin Shin
8. Treigit
9. S_K171
10. sgdre
11. matjoeman
12. diggy
14. WOLG
15. creampuffeater
16. ikerr
17. AlphaInsidious
18. Abandon Hope
19. rianalnn
20. lil akroma
and then [dice=1]20[/dice*] resulting in
Then whomever's number comes up gets to post next (eventually renumbering would be called for. Also, this previews as random num=3, if that's the final, this might not work, unless the numbers assigned to players are fixed.
2) clan name claim
3) nothing
I'm mostly for the dice idea... though you can keep rolling that way until you get who you want so it's not that "random". Very difficult to come up with a totally random method...
Also is anyone other than sgdre pushing for abandon hope to go first?
banner by: Alex+
Also, I checked the dice, there's no way to get their results before you post, so they seem like a good random method.
this is a 3... apparently previewing your post shows it. we'll see if it changes though when I post.
I like the random idea then.
banner by: Alex+
banner by: Alex+
:sorry:
Sure, sure, I'll vote.
1. Yes.
2. Clan Name
3. sgdre goes FIRST
*wonders what MMoD's non-random plan is*
*sigh* Well this is apparently happening, despite the good arguments against it. It seems that people are looking at the possible good things that could come out of a claim and ignoring the bad, but since everybody has voted, I guess I'll go along since I don't have a choice.
As for the order of the claim, I am in favor of using the dice to determine who claims next. Less chance for the mafia/neutral/SK to manipulate it in their favor that way. I will Unvote sgdre, FOS sgdre as it appears most of the town agrees with him, but I think he should be our primary suspect, depending on how this claim goes. I tend to believe SorryGuy that he is neutral and not anti-town, and either way, I don't think we lose a whole lot by leaving him alive for a while. Obviously, if we have nothing else to go by, we can pursue him later, if this stupid claim doesn't turn anything up, like I expect to happen.
My suspicion of AH comes mainly from his oposition to the claim ( thought he had poor reasoning).
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
-Alpha
I actually like sgdre's order proposal as well. The problem I see with it is that it puts us in a bit of a slump if someone refuses to go along with it. If, for example player A claims and chooses player B to claim next, what do we do if player B calls the plan stupid and takes no part in it? Does player A pick the next claimant too? With random we could just add player B to our to-lynch list and anyone could post a new random number.
Actually putting all that down has helped me compose my thoughts. I think we should start with sgdre's plan, (either w/ Abandon or a Random Choice claiming first) and then if someone refuses to claim or pick the next claimant, we can Randomly select them.
@My Clan: Any time you're ready to claim, go ahead. I doubt there's any way of stopping this.
Unvote Abandon Hope that's not doing any good right now, the last thing we want to do is go to night.
Also, my admonishment was aimed at WoLG, not Alpha obv.
I dont really see why womeone wouldnt go through with the claim if it is agreed upon by the town. If there is such a person they better start explaining themselves now. Also, I think the proper way to handle that situation is to go on with the claim and then lynch the person afterwards.
PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM RANDOMLY. LET US FIGURE OUT AN ORDER AS A TOWN.
3CB and 4CB5CB!What's the first step?
3CB and 4CB5CB!WOLG: :?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Player X claims and names player Y and does a die roll.
Either
a. Player Y claims and we go on
or
b. Player Y refuses and we go with the die roll and probably add player Y onto the lynch for later list.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
No, I know. But once that is over, and you want to go forward, may we approve it before it takes place or would that not work?
It's not anything cunning or too smart or anything. Once the individual's claim then there is no need for approval or disproval.
Also, as nice as it is to hear from framiliar faces... [insert thing about not lurking here].
The lurking is really bad.
@mmod: Okay, I am on board with that.
@sgdre: Agreed. Anyone refusing to scum after the general opinion of the town is obvious should be pressured.
Freudian slip? ARE YOU SCUM?! ARE YOU?!:mad1:
Claim, scum. Meh, one catchs the other. Sorry for the typo.
I dislike the random order since it gives the mafia the best chance of at least some of them being able to figure out a convenient claim. If we go with either a claim in order of scumminess or a method that reduces the potential for deception (which MMoD's does by what I am interpreting) it is less likely that they will be able to come up with safe claims.
How long should we wait before going ahead with a claim? This day has already taken 9 days and I am beginning to get worried about a deadline being set before we can finish a claim.
3CB and 4CB5CB!I did finally remember why I had beef with MMoD's plan. It makes it less likely that scum will false claim a clan that someone else is a member of (because all the individual clans will have claimed). I am not sure this is a huge deal.
I agree chimp, that is why I favor the "pick next" method.
Claim, scum. Meh, one catchs the other. Sorry for the typo.[/Sorry Guy]
Vote Sorry Guy. Obviously not town, no need to go to claims now. Wait, we already knew that.
Okay, I guess we can try MMoD's method, one question, are you going to hand us a claim order now, or how does that get determined?
Oh yeah, and unvote Sorry Guy.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
3CB and 4CB5CB!