sgdre, why not vote a lurker if you're so desperate to vote? Do you understand what voting means? It means, I THINK THIS PERSON IS SCUM + SHOULD HANG. This post Quote:
Originally Posted by sgdre Its not really that big a deal. If I wanted a wagon on you I wouldve made a cohesive argument for why I thought you were scummy. I am just trying to state an opinion (namely, that I think u are scum on a hunch).
reeks of idiocy. You have a hunch he's scum, but if he goes to lynch, you'll unvote if no other evidence has come up? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, sir!
I wouldnt say that I was desperate to vote. Clearly we have different defintions of what a vote means. I wanted to suggest that I find abandon scummy and wanted to point that out to the town. I dont really want to move foward with any sort of serious bandwagon until we have done the Jobie clan claim.
Quote from machin shin »
I've been just keeping quiet about it, but I've suspected for a while now that sgdre might be mafia. He's been one of the most vocal supporters of some kind of claim, even though quite a few of us have been against it, and he even got some people to claim not being in Jobie's clan while we're still discussing whether a claim is a good idea. Then, he just throws a seemingly random vote on Abandon Hope, apparently for disagreeing with him? I agree, we need to Vote sgdre until he can at least give some more reasoning for his sudden attack.
First of all, suggesting that I am trying to make the claim idea seem like a good thing against a majority that opposes it is wrong (from my impressions of reading, I havent actually counted). Second, as good as it is that some people have claimed, it doesnt really matter as we havent found someone in the clan. Feel free to vote for me, I find it EXTREMELY unlikely that the day will end in an Sgdre lynch. I just dont think there are enough people who share your point of view.
Anyways, lets try to get on with this Jobie's clan claim. It really is the best way for the town to proceed from what I can see. If you and abandon want tho, we can do some sort of vote on if people want the claim to happen.
@sgdre, I didn't say a majority, I said "quite a few", referring to myself, Abandon, rianalnn, S_K171, and I think a few others. And yes, I would like some sort of vote system. As it stands, you've unilaterally decided that claiming is good, and now anybody who doesn't claim one way or the other looks suspicious, even if they're only abstaining because they don't agree with your idea. I will unvote sgdre because it seems you're being reasonable again, but I will FOS sgdre because I really dont' feel any kind of claim at this point helps the town, and you pushing that just makes me suspicious of you.
Also, I hate to have to bring it up again, but not everybody has even posted here yet. We need prods/replacements preferrably today or tomorrow, and then we can ask those people what they think too.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
are lurking heavily. If I have somebody down wrong, please tell me. That's 10-4 in favour of Jobie's clansmates coming forward. I don't believe that this confirms those ten as not in Jobie's clan, as they could have been waiting for town support before coming forward. This seems to be the next step the town should take.
Also, we really need everyone to post more, especially those I outlined as lurking heavily. We need contributions from everyone in the town to have this go our way. (At least humour me and try to stay ahead of the mod in post count).
I am not against one of Jobie's clan coming forward, I just don't think it would mean much. I also don't think people saying "I'm not in Jobie's clan" means much. I wasn't in Jobie clan either, for what it's worth.
I am starting to think, if there was such a person, they would have come forward by now, scared though they might be of being lynched to test their innocence. . . nothing like a witch hunt. :/
Also, I think it's fair to start a lurker wagon. VOTE:Lord rahl (Last Activity: Today 02:00 AM - 9 hours ago my time. . .)
K, sorry guys really...I've been busy running Seinfeld and working and finals, but now that stuff has calmed down somewhat considerably, I've read the thread.
First of all WoLG...erm...he edited...that's not good...remains to be seen where that goes, mafia hopefully?
I will say that I am not one of Jobie's clanmates. I also think that mafia could have very well been distributed throughout more than one clan although it sounds that they originated within one...any info on salvationers who kind of trouped together in one clan and then defected? Not sure.
I am in favor of at least a soft claim. A large-scale one could very well break the game, but a small one would likely get the game going...which is a good thing. Lynching one mafia is a big start for actual action and not speculation, and even a town (god forbid) can lead to info. As is we're largely grasping at straws.
What is the general consensus on what we think each clan has representing it, and how many clans in total?
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Apparently, I was wrong about how many people supported the Jobie's clan claim. In that case, I am not in Jobie's clan. I agree with rianalnn that this will still be fairly fruitless. I suppose we'll see when the lurkers finally post/are replaced.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
Apparently, I was wrong about how many people supported the Jobie's clan claim. In that case, I am not in Jobie's clan. I agree with rianalnn that this will still be fairly fruitless. I suppose we'll see when the lurkers finally post/are replaced.
This can actully be very useful and we should continue. Please do so.
Ok more gone-ness I am getting a new computer all together as mine is seriously screwed. I am not in jobies clan I know i was against it, but hey sometimes its just right to side with the majority if you cant win. I just thought 15-20 I am not in jobies clan would be alot of spam/not much usefull material. Should be more active soon, actually I still am posting ok I think (well A little on the lurky side but....)
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I have received reports that WOLG has edited a post. He has PMed me about it and seems to have done so in order to fix an error with his link, so it's just a warning for now.
Prodding inactives.
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Quote from ljossberir »
Prizm is the key to the greatness of the US!
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If hefner was a rich, gay, playboy and had hot steamy sex with hot guys would you choose him? Of course not, mainly because im a straight male and find that stuff gross.
Stand by my side should I fight
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Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Well, so it looks like we are dealing with an infiltrator mafia. (I'll take diggy's word at least until nightfall.) I'm not sure where that gets us, but I was kind of hoping to trust my clannies.
Also, if we trust diggy that means that we can be much more free about info regarding clan names and numbers. Speaking of which, diggy, as Jobie has already spilled to the mafia, what clan were you both a part of?
Well, so it looks like we are dealing with an infiltrator mafia. (I'll take diggy's word at least until nightfall.) I'm not sure where that gets us, but I was kind of hoping to trust my clannies.
Also, if we trust diggy that means that we can be much more free about info regarding clan names and numbers. Speaking of which, diggy, as Jobie has already spilled to the mafia, what clan were you both a part of?
Also, if we trust diggy that means that we can be much more free about info regarding clan names and numbers. Speaking of which, diggy, as Jobie has already spilled to the mafia, what clan were you both a part of?
What? Why would you just jump on Diggy like that? Is this just entirely random? I don't even know where that comes from. I'm gonna FOS Treigit for that.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
EBWODP: Ok, apparently he just misread what Diggy said. UnFOS Treigit. Unless I'm mistaken, are we just waiting for Lord Rahl and Enigma91 to post now? Prizm I'd post a thread for replacement tomorrow, this is getting old.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
Yeah, apparently, I can't read. Disregard my last post obv.
There are only three people we don't know about then:
WoLG, though in a previous post he implied that those in Jobie's clan may want to claim
And our two inactives.
Pending word from those three, it seems fairly safe to say that Jobie at least wasn't an infiltrator. From that and Flavor, I'm going to guess that none of the mafia are infiltrators.
Pending word from those three, it seems fairly safe to say that Jobie at least wasn't an infiltrator. From that and Flavor, I'm going to guess that none of the mafia are infiltrators.
This is just bad, bad, bad logic. What if Jobie's clanmember is scared of all the lynch talk? You don't believe something because there is no evidence Better to just leave it open-ended then to make false presumtions, right?
+ for the love of the Goddess, why do folks keep suggesting that the Infiltrator Scenario is an ALL OR NOTHING proposition? Why is it so hard to believe that only one or two of the mafia could be clan traitors?! Or perhaps a SK?
I think it's safe to say that Jobie wasn't an infiltrator. I don't think it's safe to say that one mafia wasn't, so therefore none of the mafia are. In this case, it's much better to err on the side of caution and assume we might not be able to trust clanmates and be wrong, than the other way around. Also, depending on what answers we get from the 3, of course, it could be that Jobie wasn't in a clan. It could also be that he was, and his mates are lying. Like I said before this started, I doubt we'll be in much better position now, but maybe one of the 3 who hasn't claimed yet will prove me wrong.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
The way things are looking now I'm thinking Prizm made some mismatches. Jobie doesn't seem to be part of a clan, but having ALL the mafia in one clan breaks the game no? I think we can all agree on that.
Therefore I think that it is 50/50. A couple of mafia are in one clan, while the rest or spread around or clanless. I'll try to reread soon. Is there a deadline on this game?
Crap. My apologizes everyone, I'm a bit late I think. Sorry for taking so long to post, I'm sure you don't care but I forgot about the game during midterms but they're over so I'm here.
On to the game, and more specifically the mini claim. I'm just going to put out there that I think there is a ton of assumptions being made which is probably not a good idea. It may seem to us that these claims mean nothing, and I can't think of a conceivable way they could help the mafia but I want to remind everyone what happens when we give out the "right" info(go look at shaman mafia). However I am going to say I agree with this claim, because it will help fuel a bit of disscussion and we will have us some info to work with so I AM NOT IN JOBIES CLAN.
No one is striking me as very suspicious yet, however there has been some pretty aggressive play (eyes flash to sgdre). And I don't see what is odd in machin schins(sp?) behavior he was defending what he thought to be a bad idea, good thing in mafia, so I will fos:Sgdre. Thats about all I have for now, I need to reread the thread and think through it all.
Enigma, my issue with Machin was the way that he was talking about possible ways for the mafia (and later the cop) to do things. Particularly in respects to the ways that the mafia could effectively handle the claim we wanted to do, this is very bad for the town. The best part about the Jobie's clan claim was that the mafia probably was not prepared for it, and could not make a collective decision. Once one member posts a "this wont work because the mafia can do this," it solves that issue. Also, its bad to talk about how the cop should come foward if he does something. Let the cop make that decision.
ALSO, POST MORE!
I will wait for our last claim about Jobie's clan, and then I have some very relevant info to reveal.
We're still waiting for Lord Rahl (or his replacement if he doesn't post soon) to finish the claim and WoLG to confirm that that he is not in Jobie's clan, like his post implied.
If Rahl isn't in Jobie's clan we at least know that Jobie wasn't an infiltrator. Still, this leaves a decent chance of partial infiltration. I don't know where to go from here though. There hasn't been much suspicious behavior or anything else worth pressuring on. Any ideas?
Machin, your last post appears to be fishing for a response from the cop.
Quote from Machin Shin"s "last" post »
Maybe if we take another tack. We've been trying to squeeze every last bit of info from Jobie's death, but what about D_M's? We weren't given much, but can anybody think of something that could be helpful concerning him or his clan or something? In this case, it may or may not have been good to start with night, cause we don't seem to be anywhere even in spite of it. Of course, I'm assuming that whoever the cop looked at was town, so I guess that's one person for him/her to check off the list, but that's about it. Anywho, before anybody claims, whether Jobie's clan or not, I think we need to wait for the lurkers. It could be that we need to lynch one of them, just cause.
Quote from Machin Shin"s "2nd-to-last" post »
sgdre, I think you're missing the point here. The only way having a clanmate of Jobie claim helps the town is in the case that there are townies who share a clan or clans with mafia. Members of Jobie's clan come forward, the cop can go through the list until he hits scum. However, what if the mafia are all in the same clan? They can say whatever they want about their clan. They can keep that idea, maybe changing the clan name or split up into groups, whatever they want. And like Abandon Hope said, the only one likely to claim in that case is a godfather, although I'm curious why everyone assumes the existence of one. You seem way too adamant about this, and even though I realize some people think third vote is scummy, vote sgdre cause Puchik2 isn't in this game.
I've highlighted what I see as possibilities for what sgdre refers to as Mafia coaching + "asking the cop to come forward" – I think he's building a false case against MS here. The coaching is poorly. . . but I don't see it being any worse than what Chimps or myself (+ possibly others) have said, + I think it's IMPORTANT to point out false dilemmas - "You're ignoring other obvious possibilities" etcetera, although it often skirts a fine line to coaching, it's extremely bad for the town to bandwagon around false assumtions. Either way, sgdre seems to be responding defensively to MS's pressure, + the flimsy accusations ring scummy to me.
sgdre, who are you asking to post more? Unfocused pressure is worthless. . . + it's rude to tease us with "very relevent info" that you won't post until everyone has posted, when we've got a hardcore lurker
Im sorry if it wasnt clear that I was talking to Enigma there, but I was. Also, the part of my post about Machin was in response to Enigma as well. I was trying to explain "what is odd in machin schins(sp?) behavior."
Also, I have good reason to hold out on sharing my info till post claim, as will be obvious when I reveal it.
PPE: thanks for the assist there MJM, you took the words right out of my mouth (it must've been while u were kissing me.... sry, Im playing a meatloaf cd right now, lol)
If Rahl isn't in Jobie's clan we at least know that Jobie wasn't an infiltrator. Still, this leaves a decent chance of partial infiltration. I don't know where to go from here though.
We can't know Jobie wasn't an infiltrator even if Rahl posts. There is no absolute truth here. Any one of us could have lied, and many of us have motivation to lie. The mafia and any neutrals probably did not tell us the whole truth. Still, I'm glad you're not writing of infiltrators completely.
@Enigma91: Good of you to show up. If memory serves, you were a part of Shaman mafia so I know you won't go for any of this soft claiming nonsense.
Abandon, I did go for the soft claiming nonsense........
@Sgdre: I'm just going to throw this out here quickly, posting something along the lines of "I have something important but i won't tell you guys so deal with it" really gets on my nerves, like in random 2 so just letting you know....
I don't know what to do either, still going through my readthrough so I'll let you know my thoughts then
On to the game, and more specifically the mini claim. I'm just going to put out there that I think there is a ton of assumptions being made which is probably not a good idea. It may seem to us that these claims mean nothing, and I can't think of a conceivable way they could help the mafia but I want to remind everyone what happens when we give out the "right" info(go look at shaman mafia). However I am going to say I agree with this claim, because it will help fuel a bit of disscussion and we will have us some info to work with so I AM NOT IN JOBIES CLAN.
Heh. Forgive me, I only thought that this paragraph was a statement against softclaiming. My bad. :redface:
Abandon, I did go for the soft claiming nonsense........
@Sgdre: I'm just going to throw this out here quickly, posting something along the lines of "I have something important but i won't tell you guys so deal with it" really gets on my nerves, like in random 2 so just letting you know....
I don't know what to do either, still going through my readthrough so I'll let you know my thoughts then
the random 2 thing ran through my head to, I thought he had a power role or something there and he was a vote forcer. Looks like we had 1 mafia in their own clan (guessing that wolg and lord rahl arent in jobies clan). Also people do not think that jobie not bieng an infultraitor means that all the mafia arent, that kind of thinking really hurts the town.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
While it should be faily obvious, I have not explicitly stated it, so I will now. I am not in Jobie's clan.
Quote from Abandon Hope »
We can't know Jobie wasn't an infiltrator even if Rahl posts. There is no absolute truth here. Any one of us could have lied, and many of us have motivation to lie.
The only ones who have motivation to lie are either the mafia or the neutrals, and not every neutral would want to lie about this. Townies have no reason to lie.
I want to know what sgdre's info is, but am willing to wait until after the Jobie clan claim. I can think of reasons for this, and don't think speculation about it is overly wise at this point. It probably would have been bst for him not to mention he had any info, until he was ready to give it to the town.
Having no-one in Jobie's clan implies that there is at least one other mafia member unifiltrated. A mass claim could potentially out this person. This is a very powerful play best saved for the late game.
I would also like to see more posting from: Enigma91, 'lil akroma, Matjoeman, Alpha, and WoLG, specifically. WoLG at least has an excuse, but the others really don't.
Lord Rahl is looking like he needs to be replaced at this point. I would rather see it happen sooner than later.
Yeah [at school], I could of swore that I already told everyone that I wasn't in his clan, but yeah, I'm not. I think that the amount of speculation is dangerous for the town, it's causing a large amount of confusion for no reason. And I would like to know what info SGDRE has, so out with it now that everyone has softclaimed...
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-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Well, now that we know our softclaims, what do you have sgdre? I'm trembling with anticipation...
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
I'm incredibly curious what sgdre's inside info is. I trust he can decide whether it's best for the town for him to share it now or hang on to it. Anyway, just like I said, nobody claimed Jobie's clan, which either means he wasn't in one with anybody else, or some people are lying. Either way, we're not much better off. Did any of you realize that because we don't know what clan Jobie was in, we have no way of knowing even when/if we catch scum whether they really weren't in his clan or not.
As far as me "coaching Mafia" or whatever, I really was just doing what rianalnn said, and trying to point out alternatives to all the assumptions people have been making about the game. Assumptions such as "Jobie wasn't infiltrator, therefore nobody is" can really screw the town if left unchallenged, and that's what I was trying to accomplish when sgdre says I was "coaching the Mafia".
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
Obviously the maifa lied to us about being in Jobie's clan. The point is, townies shouldn't lie, and neutrals probably have no reason to here. That means that Jobie if in a clan was only with other mafia. It doesn't tell us who the mafia are, but depending on what we think of Prizm's setup, it may tell us who's not in the Mafia (our clanmates).
Any way, now we wait for sgdre. Sgdre, consider that the Mafia may or may not benefit from what you tell the town, but also that there's a decent chance you won't be around tomorrow having flaunted this info, and this is not a full reveal game.
See, that's what I mean. "Obviously the mafia lied to us about being in Jobie's clan." No, it's not obvious. Yes, it is possible that some or all of the mafia were in Jobie's clan, but it's also possible that none of them were. Now, the other conclusion you make is based on townies "shouldn't" and neutrals "probably didn't" lie. This almost makes me think you're intentionally confusing things, and townies don't do that. FOS Treigit which isn't a vote because there could be some miscommunication here.
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"Flesh so fine, so fine to tear, to gash the skin; skin to strip, to plait, so nice to plait the strips, so nice, so red the drops that fall; blood so red, so red, so sweet; sweet screams, pretty screams, singing screams, scream your song, sing your screams…” - The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
M_S: Of course the mafia are lying. Jobie's clan that was listed at death was called mafia and he is in that clan with everyone else who is in the mafia. Since everyone claimed not in Jobie's clan then unless Jobie was a one person mafia (not happening) the rest of the mafia lied in the Jobie claim. Just clarifying what Treigit means.
About sgdre: He implied he has important info, which unfortunately usually isn't a good idea. It makes him a likely nightkill target. Assuming he is town (which isn't gauranteed) he now has to decide whether we are better off with the chance of never knowing his info or telling us and hoping it doesn't help the mafia too much. Since he and maybe his clanmates are the only ones who currently know this info it will have to be up to them to decide.
I wouldnt say that I was desperate to vote. Clearly we have different defintions of what a vote means. I wanted to suggest that I find abandon scummy and wanted to point that out to the town. I dont really want to move foward with any sort of serious bandwagon until we have done the Jobie clan claim.
First of all, suggesting that I am trying to make the claim idea seem like a good thing against a majority that opposes it is wrong (from my impressions of reading, I havent actually counted). Second, as good as it is that some people have claimed, it doesnt really matter as we havent found someone in the clan. Feel free to vote for me, I find it EXTREMELY unlikely that the day will end in an Sgdre lynch. I just dont think there are enough people who share your point of view.
Anyways, lets try to get on with this Jobie's clan claim. It really is the best way for the town to proceed from what I can see. If you and abandon want tho, we can do some sort of vote on if people want the claim to happen.
Also, I hate to have to bring it up again, but not everybody has even posted here yet. We need prods/replacements preferrably today or tomorrow, and then we can ask those people what they think too.
I do agree that posts from Lord Rahl, Alphainsidious and Enigma are needed sooner rather than later.
Chimpanzee
SorryGuy
Treigit
S_K171
sgdre
matjoeman
WoLG
creampuffeater
ikerr
lil akroma
are for Jobie's clansmates coming forward and
Machin Shin
diggy
Abandon Hope
rianalnn
are against it, while
mmod
is neutral and
Lord Rahl
Enigma91
AlphaInsidious
are lurking heavily. If I have somebody down wrong, please tell me. That's 10-4 in favour of Jobie's clansmates coming forward. I don't believe that this confirms those ten as not in Jobie's clan, as they could have been waiting for town support before coming forward. This seems to be the next step the town should take.
Also, we really need everyone to post more, especially those I outlined as lurking heavily. We need contributions from everyone in the town to have this go our way. (At least humour me and try to stay ahead of the mod in post count).
I am starting to think, if there was such a person, they would have come forward by now, scared though they might be of being lynched to test their innocence. . . nothing like a witch hunt. :/
Also, I think it's fair to start a lurker wagon. VOTE:Lord rahl (Last Activity: Today 02:00 AM - 9 hours ago my time. . .)
First of all WoLG...erm...he edited...that's not good...remains to be seen where that goes, mafia hopefully?
I will say that I am not one of Jobie's clanmates. I also think that mafia could have very well been distributed throughout more than one clan although it sounds that they originated within one...any info on salvationers who kind of trouped together in one clan and then defected? Not sure.
I am in favor of at least a soft claim. A large-scale one could very well break the game, but a small one would likely get the game going...which is a good thing. Lynching one mafia is a big start for actual action and not speculation, and even a town (god forbid) can lead to info. As is we're largely grasping at straws.
What is the general consensus on what we think each clan has representing it, and how many clans in total?
-Alpha
3CB and 4CB5CB!Sure, [B]not Jobie's clan mate.
[/B]
Also I will prod rahl next time he is no MSN but for now I will [b]Vote: lord_rahl[b]
This can actully be very useful and we should continue. Please do so.
I have received reports that WOLG has edited a post. He has PMed me about it and seems to have done so in order to fix an error with his link, so it's just a warning for now.
Prodding inactives.
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Very diplomatic of you ikerr.
You vote is broken, you should re-post. :wink2:
Replace him. Replace Enigma if he does not post in a day. Too many lurkers in this game...
Vote: Lord rahl
Also, if we trust diggy that means that we can be much more free about info regarding clan names and numbers. Speaking of which, diggy, as Jobie has already spilled to the mafia, what clan were you both a part of?
3CB and 4CB5CB!What? Why would you just jump on Diggy like that? Is this just entirely random? I don't even know where that comes from. I'm gonna FOS Treigit for that.
There are only three people we don't know about then:
WoLG, though in a previous post he implied that those in Jobie's clan may want to claim
And our two inactives.
Pending word from those three, it seems fairly safe to say that Jobie at least wasn't an infiltrator. From that and Flavor, I'm going to guess that none of the mafia are infiltrators.
+ for the love of the Goddess, why do folks keep suggesting that the Infiltrator Scenario is an ALL OR NOTHING proposition? Why is it so hard to believe that only one or two of the mafia could be clan traitors?! Or perhaps a SK?
Therefore I think that it is 50/50. A couple of mafia are in one clan, while the rest or spread around or clanless. I'll try to reread soon. Is there a deadline on this game?
On to the game, and more specifically the mini claim. I'm just going to put out there that I think there is a ton of assumptions being made which is probably not a good idea. It may seem to us that these claims mean nothing, and I can't think of a conceivable way they could help the mafia but I want to remind everyone what happens when we give out the "right" info(go look at shaman mafia). However I am going to say I agree with this claim, because it will help fuel a bit of disscussion and we will have us some info to work with so I AM NOT IN JOBIES CLAN.
No one is striking me as very suspicious yet, however there has been some pretty aggressive play (eyes flash to sgdre). And I don't see what is odd in machin schins(sp?) behavior he was defending what he thought to be a bad idea, good thing in mafia, so I will fos:Sgdre. Thats about all I have for now, I need to reread the thread and think through it all.
ALSO, POST MORE!
I will wait for our last claim about Jobie's clan, and then I have some very relevant info to reveal.
If Rahl isn't in Jobie's clan we at least know that Jobie wasn't an infiltrator. Still, this leaves a decent chance of partial infiltration. I don't know where to go from here though. There hasn't been much suspicious behavior or anything else worth pressuring on. Any ideas?
3CB and 4CB5CB!I've highlighted what I see as possibilities for what sgdre refers to as Mafia coaching + "asking the cop to come forward" – I think he's building a false case against MS here. The coaching is poorly. . . but I don't see it being any worse than what Chimps or myself (+ possibly others) have said, + I think it's IMPORTANT to point out false dilemmas - "You're ignoring other obvious possibilities" etcetera, although it often skirts a fine line to coaching, it's extremely bad for the town to bandwagon around false assumtions. Either way, sgdre seems to be responding defensively to MS's pressure, + the flimsy accusations ring scummy to me.
sgdre, who are you asking to post more? Unfocused pressure is worthless. . . + it's rude to tease us with "very relevent info" that you won't post until everyone has posted, when we've got a hardcore lurker
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Also, I have good reason to hold out on sharing my info till post claim, as will be obvious when I reveal it.
PPE: thanks for the assist there MJM, you took the words right out of my mouth (it must've been while u were kissing me.... sry, Im playing a meatloaf cd right now, lol)
We can't know Jobie wasn't an infiltrator even if Rahl posts. There is no absolute truth here. Any one of us could have lied, and many of us have motivation to lie. The mafia and any neutrals probably did not tell us the whole truth. Still, I'm glad you're not writing of infiltrators completely.
@Enigma91: Good of you to show up. If memory serves, you were a part of Shaman mafia so I know you won't go for any of this soft claiming nonsense.
@Sgdre: I'm just going to throw this out here quickly, posting something along the lines of "I have something important but i won't tell you guys so deal with it" really gets on my nerves, like in random 2 so just letting you know....
I don't know what to do either, still going through my readthrough so I'll let you know my thoughts then
Heh. Forgive me, I only thought that this paragraph was a statement against softclaiming. My bad. :redface:
the random 2 thing ran through my head to, I thought he had a power role or something there and he was a vote forcer. Looks like we had 1 mafia in their own clan (guessing that wolg and lord rahl arent in jobies clan). Also people do not think that jobie not bieng an infultraitor means that all the mafia arent, that kind of thinking really hurts the town.
Anyway rahl is on away message on MSN so I will prod him soon. If he replies to me as he did to Diggy he needs to be replaced.
The only ones who have motivation to lie are either the mafia or the neutrals, and not every neutral would want to lie about this. Townies have no reason to lie.
I want to know what sgdre's info is, but am willing to wait until after the Jobie clan claim. I can think of reasons for this, and don't think speculation about it is overly wise at this point. It probably would have been bst for him not to mention he had any info, until he was ready to give it to the town.
Having no-one in Jobie's clan implies that there is at least one other mafia member unifiltrated. A mass claim could potentially out this person. This is a very powerful play best saved for the late game.
I would also like to see more posting from: Enigma91, 'lil akroma, Matjoeman, Alpha, and WoLG, specifically. WoLG at least has an excuse, but the others really don't.
Lord Rahl is looking like he needs to be replaced at this point. I would rather see it happen sooner than later.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
-Alpha
But,,, ill catchup now
Before you read please claim if you are in Jobie's clan or not so we can get on with the game.
Now just awaiting sgdre.
As far as me "coaching Mafia" or whatever, I really was just doing what rianalnn said, and trying to point out alternatives to all the assumptions people have been making about the game. Assumptions such as "Jobie wasn't infiltrator, therefore nobody is" can really screw the town if left unchallenged, and that's what I was trying to accomplish when sgdre says I was "coaching the Mafia".
Any way, now we wait for sgdre. Sgdre, consider that the Mafia may or may not benefit from what you tell the town, but also that there's a decent chance you won't be around tomorrow having flaunted this info, and this is not a full reveal game.
Seems a bit like fishing, but he did say he had info. Pressuring people for info is scummy this early.
About sgdre: He implied he has important info, which unfortunately usually isn't a good idea. It makes him a likely nightkill target. Assuming he is town (which isn't gauranteed) he now has to decide whether we are better off with the chance of never knowing his info or telling us and hoping it doesn't help the mafia too much. Since he and maybe his clanmates are the only ones who currently know this info it will have to be up to them to decide.
3CB and 4CB5CB!