I'll expect that replacement by the end of this game day. My recommendation is Pibbly. He seems pretty enthusiastic. Anyway, when replacing, be sure to forward all relevant PMs to whoever it is that's taking your place.
Spock is not portrayed correctly. If Vulcans are above petty emotions, what motivates him to join the most elite starship crew in the galaxy? I, on the other hand, have transcended the weakness of emotion and achieved a blissful lack of caring. Apathy is my strength, our strength, which prevents us from being all-to-human. In this spirit, may Meh be with you, always.
Name?
As to armlx, that was confusing. Those are obnoxius. Stupid self claimed townies
Grobbo is a target because he was playing scummily day one and picked an unpopular card, as to the person who said "isn't okk an iconic card", no
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Hi all, just got my role PM from billking, sadly i am off to play some Roller hockey so i cant read the thread today (i might read it tonight) omg, 47 pages sooo much to read, ill get it done eventually though.
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Thanks to Legacy15 and Butteblues18 for the Sig and Avatar!
Oh, and armlx, I am pretty sure I have you figured out.
? Please explain here.
Quote from epeeguy »
Really? I'm not quite convinced of that yet. Afterall, posting this list of suspicions, which is somewhat interesting reading I'll say, certainly seems to a bit suspicious. I mean, why not keep them to yourself? Instead you lay out everything for everyone else to read, almost as if you want to kind of throw around a lot of thought to confuse people...
But, seriously, I will note that when there was initially discussion regarding red townies, you seemed to pretty late with confirming that you were a red townie. Not that there was a hard and fast request to claim, but it certainly seems you took a while to claim it nonetheless. Then there was your some thing of a bandwagon vote on pawn907. And a few smattering posts here and there.
So, are you really a townie? Or trying to cause a bit of confusion with this post?
1st Part: Just a statement/joke. I can't really comment on my actions. I'ld be biased. Since I know I am a townie I felt I may as well share what I know. And I think you were the one wanting our thoughts (or was that someone else?), so I gave them.
2nd: I've had a bad time with D1 lynches. 3 for 5 now (3 for 4 at the time) on this site. Associating myself with the 2 most guilty people at the time (Circles and Greebo) did not seem fun, though it probably looks worse this way.
3rd: Townie as in on the town's side, but not as in role. I am a Red humanoid creature (and was before the swap). Not that narrows it down too much as to what I was/am. Hint: I was not Okk
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Epeeguy, you're the one who asked for people to come forward with their thoughts, then you say armlx should have just kept them to himself? As to the whole "I'm a townie" thing, I think it's fair to expect people to behave as townies, even if they aren't.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The thing is, we haven't really got anywhere this Day. I think 14 votes is too much for any random bandwagon to achieve. So the Day is probably going to end when HR decides a deadline. But before that I'd like to get some plan working to get more information.
Agreed. It takes 3/4 of the people not with you to lynch you. We need a lower amount. Maybe 1/3 of players and not 1/2? Maybe we could do 12 or 10?
Re: Greebo. He's no more suspicious now than he was Day 1, i.e. not very.
Normally I would suggest we look at who voted for Pawn, but since he was so lame, I'm, not sure we'd get much from that (yes, I know, I voted for him--twice). On the other hand, we could look at people who defended Pawn, since there really wasn't much to defend, under the theory that mafia might have been trying to give themselves credibility. I'd say anyone who seemed overly sure of Pawn's innocence would be suspicious. I haven't actually looked at this yet, however, so I don't even know if there is such a person.
Basementdwellers is about to get mod-killed, I fear, so there probably isn't any point in pressuring him. Though I'd do it if people want to. I may have to resort to making a list of "innocent" looking again, since no one is jumping out at me as scummy. That is a real pain, however, especially with so many people in this game.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Epeeguy, you're the one who asked for people to come forward with their thoughts, then you say armlx should have just kept them to himself? As to the whole "I'm a townie" thing, I think it's fair to expect people to behave as townies, even if they aren't.
Well, I didn't think that someone would end up posting all their thoughts on every person playing. IMO, that's more than just a little overkill for one. Not to mention, it certainly could still just be throwing out so much information to cause confusion. I think asking for information meant asking for PLAUSIBLE leads and information. Heck, I could be suspicious of everyone else, but I'm not going to say "I've a gut feeling about so-and-so." I'll post my best thoughts on those people I think are the best leads. Not just throw out as much stuff and see what stinks.
Well, that's pure play style. I really don't think that keeping a record of everything everybody's done that is relevant to the game is out of order. While it might be a little bit of a faux pas to tell everyone about it, I think it can sometimes be helpful to remind everyone of the reasons for past suspicions, or see what other people agree with about our own suspicions. Personally I think it's a lot more of a faux pas to jump on someone for trying to be genuinely helpful.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, that's pure play style. I really don't think that keeping a record of everything everybody's done that is relevant to the game is out of order.
I don't believe I was criticizing anyone for what records they are keeping. I think I was only making a point about posting so much information that it might not actually be helpful. Consider this: if there are so many suspicions and so much information that cannot be processed, does it really help the town out with identifying the mafia? Too much information can create confusion and cause us to pursue false leads.
So, relevancy is a huge issue here.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
While it might be a little bit of a faux pas to tell everyone about it, I think it can sometimes be helpful to remind everyone of the reasons for past suspicions, or see what other people agree with about our own suspicions.
Except that it might also be a mafia ploy. I'm not saying that armlx is mafia, simply that I questioned why he did what he did. I think it's reasonable, given the circumstances. It isn't necessarily safe to assume that everyone is being "genuinely helpful"; though I think armlx's post assuages some concerns I had about why he did what he did.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
Personally I think it's a lot more of a faux pas to jump on someone for trying to be genuinely helpful.
I'll have to remember that the next time I'm a mafia mamber. Make sure I put up a bunch of opinions and hunches sparsely sprinkled with totally verifiable evidence against people that everyone else thinks is suspicious already. Make sure not to derail any conversation or suspicions already going on, but merely summarize why people think they're suspicious. That way, I'll be sure to confuse every issue and the town will run around like a chicken with it's head cut off due to the lack of understanding of what's going on that my post will cause! I'll be sure to win!
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
@everyone- a general apology for my previous outburst. It was just a little annoying to check the thread and see that the last post is unsan re-starting his crusade against me.
Vecna seems to have straightened up and hopefully there won't be any more nonsense, so unVOte Vecna
because I seem to have forgotten earlier and HR didn't catch it, unVote Azrael
finally, because one good turn deserves another, and I would like an objective 3rd party to analyze us and figure out who appears more scummy, vote Unsanitary999
finally, because one good turn deserves another, and I would like an objective 3rd party to analyze us and figure out who appears more scummy, vote Unsanitary999
Figure it out. Blue is as much white as black, and red is enemy with white, but does have the common allie, which, if you look at the separation of Black/White (blue common ally) MEANS JACK SQUAT!
Quote from Vecna »
Anyway, why do I have to claim anyway. All I will say right here is that I am a Rare Blue ----.
Hmm. Would a blue rare post that kind of analysis? I'm not so sure. Mind coming forward with your current and former role names, so we can have a measure of additional confidence in you?
My thoughts on people with votes on them
draygn_mage: a fisrt time player not really a suspect in my book
Azrael: suported claims and to an extent ran them. First called for black players then red players. Then seemed to want to start red claims when he switched to green. Slightly suspitius because these moves could lead to the uncovering of the white paladins. Could the switch from green to red be ploy to narrow down the pool of people who could be paladens? To keep an eye on.
billking: lurker/ out of town
SorryGuy: made a strane claim, not a very good lynch target IMO
unsanitary999: attacking draygon mage for weak reason, not a suspect
Vecna_Reborn: pretended to be drunk/stoned and was trolling. In my book he isn't a target at all because of the item 12 posts. There is te after the fact uncommon claim, but isn't a good lynch reason either. Maybe keep a look out for more potentialy scummy moves, but not a target.
greebo: made some scummy seeming remarks day one and claimed vanilla Okk, a relitively safe claim for a mafia. Hardly 100% but the best shot we have
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Well, since you’re all requesting my arguments against dragyn_mage, I’ll tell them to you.
One thing I just don’t like about his play is that he looks like he’s trying very hard to act like a townie, and that he’s hiding something. I come to that conclusion by seeing that a bunch of times he’s turned a really obvious statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent. For example, if there was a general statement or agreement of there being 4 mafia in the game, dragyn_mage would go through all the needless logic and assumptions to get to that point to make him look better and more intelligent. That’s a perfect mafia tell, because they can look intelligent and townie-ish, but yet not become the center of attention and they can lay low because they’re talking a lot but saying nothing.
Secondly, the first time I voted for dragyn_mage, he got VERY edgy and VERY defensive. He started viciously attacking me and needed other people to tell him that “It’s just one vote, and it’s 15 of them to lynch” before he stopped gimping out. Trust me, if you went back a bunch of pages, you’d find exactly that. Being defensive is a huge mafia tell.
And lastly, unrelated to my dragyn_mage thoughts, FOS: Musashi because of:
Quote from Musashi »
draygn_mage: a fisrt time player not really a suspect in my book
Uh, what? Just because someone is a new player doesn’t mean that they’re not mafia.
Nothing to say for the moment, im off to go do something, but HR, that vote count is screwy, Draygn (and maybe others) have 2 votes listed. Plus a couple people unvoted me.
Also, I feel no pressure Az. I could claim, but theres no reason to. Lets say my ability has nothing to do with my card.
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Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake. SR
One thing I just don’t like about his play is that he looks like he’s trying very hard to act like a townie, and that he’s hiding something. I come to that conclusion by seeing that a bunch of times he’s turned a really obvious statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent. For example, if there was a general statement or agreement of there being 4 mafia in the game, dragyn_mage would go through all the needless logic and assumptions to get to that point to make him look better and more intelligent. That’s a perfect mafia tell, because they can look intelligent and townie-ish, but yet not become the center of attention and they can lay low because they’re talking a lot but saying nothing.
Secondly, the first time I voted for dragyn_mage, he got VERY edgy and VERY defensive. He started viciously attacking me and needed other people to tell him that “It’s just one vote, and it’s 15 of them to lynch” before he stopped gimping out. Trust me, if you went back a bunch of pages, you’d find exactly that. Being defensive is a huge mafia tell.
Personally, I think you're pushing a little too hard to get people against draygn_mage. I'm not saying that he's above suspicion here, just that you're really keying off of the same thing over and over again, pushing that well past the point of reason. draygn_mage really hasn't posted anything that new to really indicate that he's doing exactly what you're accusing him of here, and has settled into the game more and more.
Perhaps he's gotten "orders" from his mafia boss to tell him to calm down and not draw so much attention to him... perhaps he's simply just decided that he was really causing too many waves and that it was attracting too much attention to him that wasn't necessary. I don't know which, and in all fairness, I don't know that that's enough to lynch him on.
But, your continuance of trying to get him lynched... That could easily be a mafia push to take out an "obvious suspect" for the town. Or, it could be a way to divert some attention from yourself, since you've been suspected by different people at different points in Day 1 and Day 2. Not to mention, with musashi posting his thoughts on some of the people with votes (BTW, thanks musashi, that's exactly what I was hoping people would do) and talking about suspecting you without pointing a finger... That's a pretty knee jerk reaction.
epeeguy: A couple of pages back, I was asked to bring forth the logic I had against dragyn_mage. That's why I did; not to try and push his lynch harder than I already am.
Lurking is bad, but what's the rest of your case against him?
He went to say lynching Greebo would auto-clear him since he's red, which was scummy. Said some more scummy stuff. Can't remember it all exactly, but he was generally scummy.
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He went to say lynching Greebo would auto-clear him since he's red, which was scummy. Said some more scummy stuff. Can't remember it all exactly, but he was generally scummy.
Indeed. He also seemed to have a love affair with someone. I can not remember who, maybe it was B_S. I can not rememebr and anyway it does not matter as I am not voting him.
Lubabah may be someone we know who did not sign off but regardless that is spam and if that person is in this game we need to take a logn look at voting them.
Also it is not a big deal but HR I believe that Vecna long ago(as in the same post he voted for me) un-voted me.
epeeguy: A couple of pages back, I was asked to bring forth the logic I had against dragyn_mage. That's why I did; not to try and push his lynch harder than I already am.
You mean when you wrote this:
"But I still think you guys need to take a hard, long look at dragyn_mage. Should I put up my arguments against him again?"
and draygn_mage responded with:
"Go ahead if it makes you feel good. Do you suppose they all went blind last time you posted your "logic"? Face it, trying to get me lynched for being helpful isn't going to work. IF you want me that bad, just night kill me and get it over with."
I don't know anyone else who really responded to your initial question (at least not directly) with an affirmation that they wanted you to post your arguments. Beyond that, there's only a few comments on your's and draygn_mage's back and forth.
Between that, and your reaction to musashi's post... Yeah, you do look more than a little suspicious.
Vecna: Only admins can run IP searches, but I've verified that it doesn't match anyone who's supposed to be in this game. The account looks like it's not a gimmick, so I'm assuming it's just someone who intruded on the thread. For now, I'm going to delete his post.
"Lurking" would be not posting anything and simply reading the thread. Watching without really contributing.
Given, that whatever posts you've made up until now are relatively short and don't exactly add a lot to the game. So, some may consider that to be lurking.
"Lurking" would be not posting anything and simply reading the thread. Watching without really contributing.
Given, that whatever posts you've made up until now are relatively short and don't exactly add a lot to the game. So, some may consider that to be lurking.
so its just reading the thread? then i sometimes "lurk" but its because all thats needed to be said has been said.
He went to say lynching Greebo would auto-clear him since he's red, which was scummy.
You mean here and here, where he says that seeing Greebo as a dead townie would confirm that red townies exist? Or here, where he says exactly the opposite of what you're attributing to him?
Quote from armlx »
Said some more scummy stuff. Can't remember it all exactly, but he was generally scummy.
And we're supposed to lynch someone based on this assertion? If you can be bothered, take the time to search the thread for his posts, and quote those you think are scummy for all to see.
I'm not saying CropCircles is innocent; I'm merely saying that the case against him is extremely weak, except for the charge of lurking.
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Uh, what? Just because someone is a new player doesn’t mean that they’re not mafia.
No, but acting noobish doesn't make me thing he is scum.
He's hardly clean, but he's not any more a suspect any more then anyone else.
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Unsan, I wouldn't mind reading your thoughts on draygn_mage... in fact, I wouldn't mind reading anyone's thoughts on anyone right now, as I'm not too sure where to go next.
Agreed. If anyone has any thoughts on anyone, they shouldn't hold back those thoughts. At the very least, we all get more information to follow leads on, and to perform our own investigations. Go ahead and post them unsan.
Epeeguy, you have this thing about asking people to post and then knocking them out of the sky for it, don't you? Here you are very specifically saying that you agree with a post directed at Unsan asking him to post his thoughts on Draygn. What else could you expect?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, looking back at who defended Pawn proved to be mostly fruitless. In what I'm sure will be a shock to no one, nobody really defended him.
To be sure, a few people remarked on his newness, even while voting for him. I myself mentioned it was my only real concen. Blinking Spirit didn't vote for him, stating that he had basically a gut feeling that Pawn's posting was more from inexperience than mafianess. Since he was right, I guess I can't call that suspicious. The only post that comes close to what I was looking for came from, of all people, Billking, in what was his last post before he basically disappeared from the game. This was it:
Quote from billking in post #541 »
First read-through of the thread completed. May have been a little fast, but I'm not likely to do it again.... at least not until a few Days have gone by.
I am very suspicious of SorryGuy. A black claim ending up townie just seems odd... and wouldn't a regneration ability more likely be slapped on Ancient Silverback than on a lowly Skeletons? The flavor is completely out of whack, not to mention that almost all of the card-claims are rares, and this one's an oddball common. I don't believe it for a second.
I know I'm not the first person to notice this. The problem is what to do with him tonight. First of all, blowing an investigation on him is completely retarded. He's black, obviously... we already know this from his own admission. That leaves us two options. One is to lynch him today. That seems fine. Of course, a vigilante kill would also be nice, and leave our options open. I say we have the vigilante hit him. That way, if he actually does have regeneration, he gets to live. Fair enough.
I think pawn is guilty of one thing and one thing only: being a noob. Granted, he may be a Mafia for all I know, but I wouldn't consider his case closed by any means. I smell a bandwagon... and, although I am sure most of those who have voted for pawn are well-meaning townies, I suspect a dark hand is at work.
Who would I vote for? No one, at the moment. Nailing Mafia with a lynch on Day 1 is fairly difficult task. As far as I'm concerned, the realistic best-outcome-possible for Day 1 is a successful vote for no-lynch; of course, there are unrealistic best-possible-outcomes — not to mention luck — but I generally consider those to be overly optimistic, while a vast majority of games begin with townies lynching townies. Nor do I think that putting a bunch of votes on someone is a bad thing per se. Hell, over at 'News I've had a recent experience which has taught me that pressure-voting is often quite useful. However, I doubt that pawn has the experience to respond to this pressure accordingly... in other words, he's not good enough for the tactic to work. Call me crazy, but I don't think it's good policy to lynch players who just happen to be bad posters... noobs, if you will. Don't get me wrong, when I read pawn's posts I get a headache too. I feel you. But let's follow our minds instead of our emotions here, people.
Perhaps it would have been better if we put a little pressure on someone who is a good poster. A great one, even. However, I believe the momentum of the day has made such a bandwagon a practical impossibility. I'm not that optimistic. I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow...
That's about all I have. Unfortunately I don't really have anything better than pawn as far as lynching suggestions, so I guess if you guys really want to you can go ahead, not exactly with my approval but at least with my understanding. If you really want an alternative, may I suggest dragyn_mage, whose impatience for posting may be a Mafia tell. I don't know about him either, but frankly I think he's a better choice than pawn because he doesn't have nearly as much bad-poster-aura about him. You guys can tell me what you think about that idea.
Until next time.
That post is slightly suspicious. He seemed more certain than anyone that Pawn was "just" a n00b. And he defended Pawn a bit more than Pawn probably deserved under the circumstances. He then abdicated all responsibility for the lynch of Pawn, while at the same time saying people could go ahead if they wanted to.
That's the kind of thing I was looking for. But it's really just the one post. Plus we can't forget, it's billking talking. He has said stuff like that when he was town before, so I can't read too much into it. Now he's gone and Pibbly has taken over. Interestingly, Pibbly himself hasn't posted beyond his very first "Hi, I'm here" post. None of this seems voteworthy yet.
If I had to pick someone from out of the blue (as I am wont to do when obvious suspects are lacking) I would take a closer look at Kenji. Browsing through the thread, there's something about his posts that bother me, but nothing definative. Az is kind of lurking too. And Moxen's posts are supremely unhelpful.
There's still too many people to get a good fix on anyone (but Musashi is, like, obviously clear to me. Why are people even looking at him?)
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Epeeguy, you have this thing about asking people to post and then knocking them out of the sky for it, don't you? Here you are very specifically saying that you agree with a post directed at Unsan asking him to post his thoughts on Draygn. What else could you expect?
I was also hoping for a bit more than he'd already said on the subject. Again, unsan is revisiting the same things that he raised on Day 1, and isn't providing any more evidence that really supports his point. Perhaps I was a bit unfair in some respects, but I'd personally hoped that unsan would have accumulated a bit more information to base his suspicions on, as they really didn't pass muster on Day 1.
Regardless, by doing this, it could mean one of a couple of things:
1.) That unsan is really out to get draygn_mage, and is truly convinced that he's mafia. In this scenario, unsan is a townie.
2.) That unsan believes that he could get draygn_mage lynched, in order to divert attention from himself. In this scenario, unsan is a mafia.
Now, if unsan were truly a townie, I would think that he would have come up with some more information to actually help the town, as opposed to push for draygn_mage to get lynched based on what he'd previous put together, which people had a hard time believing. So, weighing the two scenarios against the other, I'm leaning more towards the later scenario as opposed to the first.
Of course, were unsan to post a bit more evidence based on what's happened today, then I'd be more willing to believe that he had a reasonable basis for his suspicion. But, it's going to take a lot more than his suspicions from Day 1 to convince me of this.
Anyhow, as I already said earlier, armlx posted a bit more information on his suspicions than I think was reasonable; which made me suspicious. And as I later clarified, I hoped people would post reasonable information on their suspicions as opposed to just their "general feeling". Again, the idea being to accumulate information to aid in an investigation and actually help out; posting random suspicions that really don't offer anything isn't going to be helpful to the town. All posting random suspicions is going to do is cause a bit more confusion and misdirection; which is why I was a bit suspicious of armlx's post. Since then, he's made me feel a bit more comfortable with it and his motives.
I don't think I've been that "confusing" as you claim me to be, though I can in part see where you are coming from. I think, or hope at least, that I've explained what exactly I mean thoroughly enough so there shouldn't be that much confusion. I will strive to be a bit more clear in the future.
EWP: As I said earlier regarding unsan "I don't know anyone else who really responded to your initial question (at least not directly) with an affirmation that they wanted you to post your arguments. Beyond that, there's only a few comments on your's and draygn_mage's back and forth." Even Kenji's post isn't really direct per se. Nor was my comment either. I simply asked for information, again, perhaps not in the most clear of ways. *sigh* Hindisight is always 20/20.
Sorry about not posting recently, I've been gone for the past few days. Armlx, the only point you bring up against me is one that I've defended against many times. So I have nothing more to say.
As to the current situation...I'm rather confused at the moment, so I will withhold any accusations.
1. I made a n00b mistake in overreacting to getting voted, but he won't let it rest.
2. He backed up Greebo for... making a n00b mistake??
3. He accuses me of "being too helpful"
4. He explains that trying to act like a townie is a big mafia tell.
5. He follows that up with becoming the one-man draygn slayer squad.
6. Anytime the conversation gets around to seriously discussing who to lynch ot who looks legitimately scummy, he disrupts it by babbling on about how scummy I look. Not for any hard reasons, just because he has a "gut" feeling.
There you go, there are my reasons for unsan being scummier than everyone else out there. Please pick my reasoning to shreds, but it seems to me that if there is a "lynch all liars" rule, shouldn't there be a "lynch all bigots" rule too? I may overreact, but at least I have played and spoken consistently. If anything, I can be accused of thinking out loud, but has anyone seen me back up one person for an action then attack someone else for taking the same action? I'll check back tomorrow night. I leave my vote as it stands. Everyone else, vote your conscience.
Hey, I have an idea. Isn't there a dice function of some kind that lets the computer pick a random number for you? As long as someone posts an unedited post with a 27-sided dice, we can pick a genuinely random player to lynch. (Unless it turns up someone who is confirmed, such as myself or Unsan) That way, we don't have to worry about scum influencing our lynch, which is basically going to be random regardless of what we do. If the choice can prove their innocence, then we can move on with a little less randomness. At least the game will be moving.
Does anyone actually know how to do the dice thing? FB?
Epeeguy: I agree that Unsan's opinion seems totally unfounded and isn't worth the town's time. Let's just leave it at that, eh?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
One thing I just don’t like about his play is that he looks like he’s trying very hard to act like a townie, and that he’s hiding something. I come to that conclusion by seeing that a bunch of times he’s turned a really obvious statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent. For example, if there was a general statement or agreement of there being 4 mafia in the game, dragyn_mage would go through all the needless logic and assumptions to get to that point to make him look better and more intelligent. That’s a perfect mafia tell, because they can look intelligent and townie-ish, but yet not become the center of attention and they can lay low because they’re talking a lot but saying nothing.[/size][/font]
So, basically, your case comes down to "He looks like a Town, and he posts too intelligently". I'd also like to note that you weren't concerned in the least about "taking a statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent".
If you hadn't claimed the Djinn, I'd vote for you.
carrion: There is a dice function in these forums, but I think we can do better than lynching at random. Even if the mafia were to influence the lynch, we could at least get information by studying how the lynch was influenced.
Also, the random lynch plan would definitely NOT be in the town's favor. If we lynched randomly on a daily basis, the mafia's greater night abilities would swing the tide against us.
None of the current lynch choices look particularly attractive to me at the moment.
Greebo was let off the hook earlier, but I still doubt his role is townie. Many of the other reds, especially those who came forward only after the general claims began, don't particularly inspire much confidence either.
Also, are we going to attempt to move forward with any type of claims, color or otherwise? If not, I think our earlier efforts would be utterly wasted, and will have accomplished nothing more than to narrow the list of targets for the mafia. Unless we put this tool to use and actually begin to trap scum into false claims, that knowledge will become a danger to the town, instead of an asset.
Also, are we going to attempt to move forward with any type of claims, color or otherwise? If not, I think our earlier efforts would be utterly wasted, and will have accomplished nothing more than to narrow the list of targets for the mafia. Unless we put this tool to use and actually begin to trap scum into false claims, that knowledge will become a danger to the town, instead of an asset.
Well, that's what happens when you decide to rush ahead despite protest from others. Maybe if you'd taken some time to actually discuss the plan beforehand, you wouldn't have created this "danger to the town".
Well, that's what happens when you decide to rush ahead despite protest from others. Maybe if you'd taken some time to actually discuss the plan beforehand, you wouldn't have created this "danger to the town".
*shrugs* Or maybe if we hadn't encountered so much irrational, emotional opposition to the claims, we would have caught some scum by now.
That blade cuts both ways.
Now we've just got to look ahead to the future, not bicker about what's in the past.
Epeeguy: I agree that Unsan's opinion seems totally unfounded and isn't worth the town's time. Let's just leave it at that, eh?
I'm not sure I follow what you mean. Do you mean not pursue Unsan as a possible lead? I don't think people are inclined to agree with you on that, certainly not me. Or do you mean beating me up on the quality of my comments? If so, that would be fine, because I think the horse is quite dead now.
I'm also not a proponent of the random lynch. We lost a townie Day 1, the odds could be pretty good to lose one on Day 2 with such a vote. So, that really doesn't make sense as a really good way to approach things for Day 2. With 24 hours to go, besides people posting their best suspicions and advancing any existing arguments... I'm not sure what else we've got.
We're evenly split on Vecna and Greebo, the later I'm not sure is the best vote to make (what has he done Day 2 that makes him anymore suspicious than he was Day 1?). Vecna did the PM thing, but no one's really gungho on that anymore, and his remaining posts have done well to relax most suspicions. Everyone else has only one vote... How about those people who've voted restate their arguments again, unless it was posted in the last 24 hours or so (like Draygn and Unsan)? That might be helpful.
@Highroller: Some poster named Lubabah posted on this thread with an FOS at me (based on my comments yesterday on unsan). His/her post has since been deleted, which is why you may not see it.
So, basically, your case comes down to "He looks like a Town, and he posts too intelligently". I'd also like to note that you weren't concerned in the least about "taking a statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent".
If you hadn't claimed the Djinn, I'd vote for you.
He's not posting intelligently, though. He's trying to make it sound intelligent.
There's a big difference. Not to mention you conveniently forgot to remember how defensive he got when I first voted for him.
None of the current lynch choices look particularly attractive to me at the moment.
Greebo was let off the hook earlier, but I still doubt his role is townie. Many of the other reds, especially those who came forward only after the general claims began, don't particularly inspire much confidence either.
Also, are we going to attempt to move forward with any type of claims, color or otherwise? If not, I think our earlier efforts would be utterly wasted, and will have accomplished nothing more than to narrow the list of targets for the mafia. Unless we put this tool to use and actually begin to trap scum into false claims, that knowledge will become a danger to the town, instead of an asset.
Azrael, why are you still pushing the Red thing? Pawn was red (at least he said he was) and he was town. If this tells us NOTHING else, it tells us that there are Red Townies. But you have been pushing the idea that Red is a scummy color from the very beginning. And on what basis? The fact that one of the White Paladins has an ability in the card game to destroy red creatures. Nothing else as far as I can see.
What I think is simple. Either there is an all black mafia, in which case the mafia will be hiding in all colors, or the only black mafia are the Paladins and the other mafia are evenly distrubuted in ALL the other colors (except possibly White). Yes, I realize there are other possibilities. The mafia could be unevenly distrubuted; they could be distributed in all colors including black and white. I just think the odds of those occurances are less. Either way, there is no basis to believe that they are concentrated in RED, and your continuous beating of this drum is suspicious.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Greebo- made some scummy comments on day 1 which were later attributed to n00bishness. Before the end of the day though, he went suicidal and voted himself (during a bandwagon). Unsan leapt to his defense and the bandwagon finally stopped when someone else (don't remember who) offered to defend him.
Vecna- yelled at everyone on day 1 about trolling, spamming, etc, and on day 2 was accused of trolling, posted some useless garbage (spam) and claimed to be drunk/stoned while posting. Also some strangeness with PM-ing another player and telling him to post so he could post something he forgot. As he is still around, I guess HR decided not to kill him. As far as I can tell, people (including me) made attitude votes towards him, but nothing really based on scummy behavior.
Those are the cases in extreme nutshells (at least as far as how I see them). Between the 2, I think Greebo is the scummier one.
I will not be voting for him because I am not dropping unsan until someone investigates him and clears him. For the record, I DO NOT WANT the cop to do this, as this puts him (the cop) in the open and at risk and we need you in the late game. No one has proven that blue is not a mafia color (just as no one has cleared red yet), so unsan claiming Moti doesn't really mean anything to me.
The fact that Vecna has claimed blue and Greebo has claimed red and unsan has claimed blue and I have claimed red doesn't really help clear anyting up.
Spock is not portrayed correctly. If Vulcans are above petty emotions, what motivates him to join the most elite starship crew in the galaxy? I, on the other hand, have transcended the weakness of emotion and achieved a blissful lack of caring. Apathy is my strength, our strength, which prevents us from being all-to-human. In this spirit, may Meh be with you, always.
Name?
As to armlx, that was confusing. Those are obnoxius. Stupid self claimed townies
Grobbo is a target because he was playing scummily day one and picked an unpopular card, as to the person who said "isn't okk an iconic card", no
? Please explain here.
1st Part: Just a statement/joke. I can't really comment on my actions. I'ld be biased. Since I know I am a townie I felt I may as well share what I know. And I think you were the one wanting our thoughts (or was that someone else?), so I gave them.
2nd: I've had a bad time with D1 lynches. 3 for 5 now (3 for 4 at the time) on this site. Associating myself with the 2 most guilty people at the time (Circles and Greebo) did not seem fun, though it probably looks worse this way.
3rd: Townie as in on the town's side, but not as in role. I am a Red humanoid creature (and was before the swap). Not that narrows it down too much as to what I was/am. Hint: I was not Okk
Also, I haven't been lurking. I post regularly.
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Agreed. It takes 3/4 of the people not with you to lynch you. We need a lower amount. Maybe 1/3 of players and not 1/2? Maybe we could do 12 or 10?
Normally I would suggest we look at who voted for Pawn, but since he was so lame, I'm, not sure we'd get much from that (yes, I know, I voted for him--twice). On the other hand, we could look at people who defended Pawn, since there really wasn't much to defend, under the theory that mafia might have been trying to give themselves credibility. I'd say anyone who seemed overly sure of Pawn's innocence would be suspicious. I haven't actually looked at this yet, however, so I don't even know if there is such a person.
Basementdwellers is about to get mod-killed, I fear, so there probably isn't any point in pressuring him. Though I'd do it if people want to. I may have to resort to making a list of "innocent" looking again, since no one is jumping out at me as scummy. That is a real pain, however, especially with so many people in this game.
Well, I didn't think that someone would end up posting all their thoughts on every person playing. IMO, that's more than just a little overkill for one. Not to mention, it certainly could still just be throwing out so much information to cause confusion. I think asking for information meant asking for PLAUSIBLE leads and information. Heck, I could be suspicious of everyone else, but I'm not going to say "I've a gut feeling about so-and-so." I'll post my best thoughts on those people I think are the best leads. Not just throw out as much stuff and see what stinks.
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I don't believe I was criticizing anyone for what records they are keeping. I think I was only making a point about posting so much information that it might not actually be helpful. Consider this: if there are so many suspicions and so much information that cannot be processed, does it really help the town out with identifying the mafia? Too much information can create confusion and cause us to pursue false leads.
So, relevancy is a huge issue here.
Except that it might also be a mafia ploy. I'm not saying that armlx is mafia, simply that I questioned why he did what he did. I think it's reasonable, given the circumstances. It isn't necessarily safe to assume that everyone is being "genuinely helpful"; though I think armlx's post assuages some concerns I had about why he did what he did.
Consider it a faux pas then. :tongue3:
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@everyone- a general apology for my previous outburst. It was just a little annoying to check the thread and see that the last post is unsan re-starting his crusade against me.
Vecna seems to have straightened up and hopefully there won't be any more nonsense, so unVOte Vecna
because I seem to have forgotten earlier and HR didn't catch it, unVote Azrael
finally, because one good turn deserves another, and I would like an objective 3rd party to analyze us and figure out who appears more scummy, vote Unsanitary999
Unfortunately, thanks to a certain iconic flying creature, the immediate answer seems to be you.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Hmm. Would a blue rare post that kind of analysis? I'm not so sure. Mind coming forward with your current and former role names, so we can have a measure of additional confidence in you?
draygn_mage - 1 (unsanitary999)
Azrael - 1 (Dusk_)
Vecna_Reborn - 4 (Kenji, draygn_mage, SorryGuy, armlx)
SorryGuy - 1 (Vecna_Reborn)
billking - 1 (Chrome Moxen)
greebo - 3 (musashi, StevieT92, Puzzle)
unsanitary999 - 1 (draygn_mage)
14 to lynch
The day has been deadlined to Wednesday.
draygn_mage: a fisrt time player not really a suspect in my book
Azrael: suported claims and to an extent ran them. First called for black players then red players. Then seemed to want to start red claims when he switched to green. Slightly suspitius because these moves could lead to the uncovering of the white paladins. Could the switch from green to red be ploy to narrow down the pool of people who could be paladens? To keep an eye on.
billking: lurker/ out of town
SorryGuy: made a strane claim, not a very good lynch target IMO
unsanitary999: attacking draygon mage for weak reason, not a suspect
Vecna_Reborn: pretended to be drunk/stoned and was trolling. In my book he isn't a target at all because of the item 12 posts. There is te after the fact uncommon claim, but isn't a good lynch reason either. Maybe keep a look out for more potentialy scummy moves, but not a target.
greebo: made some scummy seeming remarks day one and claimed vanilla Okk, a relitively safe claim for a mafia. Hardly 100% but the best shot we have
Unvote
Vote CropCircles
He lurks, and was rediculous yesterday.
One thing I just don’t like about his play is that he looks like he’s trying very hard to act like a townie, and that he’s hiding something. I come to that conclusion by seeing that a bunch of times he’s turned a really obvious statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent. For example, if there was a general statement or agreement of there being 4 mafia in the game, dragyn_mage would go through all the needless logic and assumptions to get to that point to make him look better and more intelligent. That’s a perfect mafia tell, because they can look intelligent and townie-ish, but yet not become the center of attention and they can lay low because they’re talking a lot but saying nothing.
Secondly, the first time I voted for dragyn_mage, he got VERY edgy and VERY defensive. He started viciously attacking me and needed other people to tell him that “It’s just one vote, and it’s 15 of them to lynch” before he stopped gimping out. Trust me, if you went back a bunch of pages, you’d find exactly that. Being defensive is a huge mafia tell.
And lastly, unrelated to my dragyn_mage thoughts, FOS: Musashi because of:
Uh, what? Just because someone is a new player doesn’t mean that they’re not mafia.
OMFG linkage
Lurking is bad, but what's the rest of your case against him?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Also, I feel no pressure Az. I could claim, but theres no reason to. Lets say my ability has nothing to do with my card.
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
Personally, I think you're pushing a little too hard to get people against draygn_mage. I'm not saying that he's above suspicion here, just that you're really keying off of the same thing over and over again, pushing that well past the point of reason. draygn_mage really hasn't posted anything that new to really indicate that he's doing exactly what you're accusing him of here, and has settled into the game more and more.
Perhaps he's gotten "orders" from his mafia boss to tell him to calm down and not draw so much attention to him... perhaps he's simply just decided that he was really causing too many waves and that it was attracting too much attention to him that wasn't necessary. I don't know which, and in all fairness, I don't know that that's enough to lynch him on.
But, your continuance of trying to get him lynched... That could easily be a mafia push to take out an "obvious suspect" for the town. Or, it could be a way to divert some attention from yourself, since you've been suspected by different people at different points in Day 1 and Day 2. Not to mention, with musashi posting his thoughts on some of the people with votes (BTW, thanks musashi, that's exactly what I was hoping people would do) and talking about suspecting you without pointing a finger... That's a pretty knee jerk reaction.
FOS unsanitary999
Mod, can this be dealt with accordingly?
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
OMFG linkage
He went to say lynching Greebo would auto-clear him since he's red, which was scummy. Said some more scummy stuff. Can't remember it all exactly, but he was generally scummy.
Indeed. He also seemed to have a love affair with someone. I can not remember who, maybe it was B_S. I can not rememebr and anyway it does not matter as I am not voting him.
Lubabah may be someone we know who did not sign off but regardless that is spam and if that person is in this game we need to take a logn look at voting them.
Also it is not a big deal but HR I believe that Vecna long ago(as in the same post he voted for me) un-voted me.
You mean when you wrote this:
"But I still think you guys need to take a hard, long look at dragyn_mage. Should I put up my arguments against him again?"
and draygn_mage responded with:
"Go ahead if it makes you feel good. Do you suppose they all went blind last time you posted your "logic"? Face it, trying to get me lynched for being helpful isn't going to work. IF you want me that bad, just night kill me and get it over with."
I don't know anyone else who really responded to your initial question (at least not directly) with an affirmation that they wanted you to post your arguments. Beyond that, there's only a few comments on your's and draygn_mage's back and forth.
Between that, and your reaction to musashi's post... Yeah, you do look more than a little suspicious.
what exactly is lurking?
my sig. made by me.
"Lurking" would be not posting anything and simply reading the thread. Watching without really contributing.
Given, that whatever posts you've made up until now are relatively short and don't exactly add a lot to the game. So, some may consider that to be lurking.
so its just reading the thread? then i sometimes "lurk" but its because all thats needed to be said has been said.
so short posts is lurking to?
ok.
my sig. made by me.
I guess that's the way some feel about it. I mean, at least you've posted more than a couple of the people, but I guess that's not enough for some.
You mean here and here, where he says that seeing Greebo as a dead townie would confirm that red townies exist? Or here, where he says exactly the opposite of what you're attributing to him?
And we're supposed to lynch someone based on this assertion? If you can be bothered, take the time to search the thread for his posts, and quote those you think are scummy for all to see.
I'm not saying CropCircles is innocent; I'm merely saying that the case against him is extremely weak, except for the charge of lurking.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
LOL, not really
No, but acting noobish doesn't make me thing he is scum.
He's hardly clean, but he's not any more a suspect any more then anyone else.
Epeeguy, you have this thing about asking people to post and then knocking them out of the sky for it, don't you? Here you are very specifically saying that you agree with a post directed at Unsan asking him to post his thoughts on Draygn. What else could you expect?
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To be sure, a few people remarked on his newness, even while voting for him. I myself mentioned it was my only real concen. Blinking Spirit didn't vote for him, stating that he had basically a gut feeling that Pawn's posting was more from inexperience than mafianess. Since he was right, I guess I can't call that suspicious. The only post that comes close to what I was looking for came from, of all people, Billking, in what was his last post before he basically disappeared from the game. This was it:
That post is slightly suspicious. He seemed more certain than anyone that Pawn was "just" a n00b. And he defended Pawn a bit more than Pawn probably deserved under the circumstances. He then abdicated all responsibility for the lynch of Pawn, while at the same time saying people could go ahead if they wanted to.
That's the kind of thing I was looking for. But it's really just the one post. Plus we can't forget, it's billking talking. He has said stuff like that when he was town before, so I can't read too much into it. Now he's gone and Pibbly has taken over. Interestingly, Pibbly himself hasn't posted beyond his very first "Hi, I'm here" post. None of this seems voteworthy yet.
If I had to pick someone from out of the blue (as I am wont to do when obvious suspects are lacking) I would take a closer look at Kenji. Browsing through the thread, there's something about his posts that bother me, but nothing definative. Az is kind of lurking too. And Moxen's posts are supremely unhelpful.
There's still too many people to get a good fix on anyone (but Musashi is, like, obviously clear to me. Why are people even looking at him?)
I was also hoping for a bit more than he'd already said on the subject. Again, unsan is revisiting the same things that he raised on Day 1, and isn't providing any more evidence that really supports his point. Perhaps I was a bit unfair in some respects, but I'd personally hoped that unsan would have accumulated a bit more information to base his suspicions on, as they really didn't pass muster on Day 1.
Regardless, by doing this, it could mean one of a couple of things:
1.) That unsan is really out to get draygn_mage, and is truly convinced that he's mafia. In this scenario, unsan is a townie.
2.) That unsan believes that he could get draygn_mage lynched, in order to divert attention from himself. In this scenario, unsan is a mafia.
Now, if unsan were truly a townie, I would think that he would have come up with some more information to actually help the town, as opposed to push for draygn_mage to get lynched based on what he'd previous put together, which people had a hard time believing. So, weighing the two scenarios against the other, I'm leaning more towards the later scenario as opposed to the first.
Of course, were unsan to post a bit more evidence based on what's happened today, then I'd be more willing to believe that he had a reasonable basis for his suspicion. But, it's going to take a lot more than his suspicions from Day 1 to convince me of this.
Anyhow, as I already said earlier, armlx posted a bit more information on his suspicions than I think was reasonable; which made me suspicious. And as I later clarified, I hoped people would post reasonable information on their suspicions as opposed to just their "general feeling". Again, the idea being to accumulate information to aid in an investigation and actually help out; posting random suspicions that really don't offer anything isn't going to be helpful to the town. All posting random suspicions is going to do is cause a bit more confusion and misdirection; which is why I was a bit suspicious of armlx's post. Since then, he's made me feel a bit more comfortable with it and his motives.
I don't think I've been that "confusing" as you claim me to be, though I can in part see where you are coming from. I think, or hope at least, that I've explained what exactly I mean thoroughly enough so there shouldn't be that much confusion. I will strive to be a bit more clear in the future.
EWP: As I said earlier regarding unsan "I don't know anyone else who really responded to your initial question (at least not directly) with an affirmation that they wanted you to post your arguments. Beyond that, there's only a few comments on your's and draygn_mage's back and forth." Even Kenji's post isn't really direct per se. Nor was my comment either. I simply asked for information, again, perhaps not in the most clear of ways. *sigh* Hindisight is always 20/20.
As to the current situation...I'm rather confused at the moment, so I will withhold any accusations.
[The Family]
1. I made a n00b mistake in overreacting to getting voted, but he won't let it rest.
2. He backed up Greebo for... making a n00b mistake??
3. He accuses me of "being too helpful"
4. He explains that trying to act like a townie is a big mafia tell.
5. He follows that up with becoming the one-man draygn slayer squad.
6. Anytime the conversation gets around to seriously discussing who to lynch ot who looks legitimately scummy, he disrupts it by babbling on about how scummy I look. Not for any hard reasons, just because he has a "gut" feeling.
There you go, there are my reasons for unsan being scummier than everyone else out there. Please pick my reasoning to shreds, but it seems to me that if there is a "lynch all liars" rule, shouldn't there be a "lynch all bigots" rule too? I may overreact, but at least I have played and spoken consistently. If anything, I can be accused of thinking out loud, but has anyone seen me back up one person for an action then attack someone else for taking the same action? I'll check back tomorrow night. I leave my vote as it stands. Everyone else, vote your conscience.
Does anyone actually know how to do the dice thing? FB?
Epeeguy: I agree that Unsan's opinion seems totally unfounded and isn't worth the town's time. Let's just leave it at that, eh?
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So, basically, your case comes down to "He looks like a Town, and he posts too intelligently". I'd also like to note that you weren't concerned in the least about "taking a statement and lengthening it and making it sound more intelligent".
If you hadn't claimed the Djinn, I'd vote for you.
Also, the random lynch plan would definitely NOT be in the town's favor. If we lynched randomly on a daily basis, the mafia's greater night abilities would swing the tide against us.
None of the current lynch choices look particularly attractive to me at the moment.
Greebo was let off the hook earlier, but I still doubt his role is townie. Many of the other reds, especially those who came forward only after the general claims began, don't particularly inspire much confidence either.
Also, are we going to attempt to move forward with any type of claims, color or otherwise? If not, I think our earlier efforts would be utterly wasted, and will have accomplished nothing more than to narrow the list of targets for the mafia. Unless we put this tool to use and actually begin to trap scum into false claims, that knowledge will become a danger to the town, instead of an asset.
Well, that's what happens when you decide to rush ahead despite protest from others. Maybe if you'd taken some time to actually discuss the plan beforehand, you wouldn't have created this "danger to the town".
*shrugs* Or maybe if we hadn't encountered so much irrational, emotional opposition to the claims, we would have caught some scum by now.
That blade cuts both ways.
Now we've just got to look ahead to the future, not bicker about what's in the past.
VOTES:
draygn_mage - 1 (unsanitary999)
Azrael - 1 (Dusk_)
Vecna_Reborn - 3 (Kenji, draygn_mage, SorryGuy)
billking - 1 (Chrome Moxen)
greebo - 3 (musashi, StevieT92, Puzzle)
unsanitary999 - 1 (draygn_mage)
CropCircles - 1 (armlx)
14 to lynch
I'm not sure I follow what you mean. Do you mean not pursue Unsan as a possible lead? I don't think people are inclined to agree with you on that, certainly not me. Or do you mean beating me up on the quality of my comments? If so, that would be fine, because I think the horse is quite dead now.
I'm also not a proponent of the random lynch. We lost a townie Day 1, the odds could be pretty good to lose one on Day 2 with such a vote. So, that really doesn't make sense as a really good way to approach things for Day 2. With 24 hours to go, besides people posting their best suspicions and advancing any existing arguments... I'm not sure what else we've got.
We're evenly split on Vecna and Greebo, the later I'm not sure is the best vote to make (what has he done Day 2 that makes him anymore suspicious than he was Day 1?). Vecna did the PM thing, but no one's really gungho on that anymore, and his remaining posts have done well to relax most suspicions. Everyone else has only one vote... How about those people who've voted restate their arguments again, unless it was posted in the last 24 hours or so (like Draygn and Unsan)? That might be helpful.
@Highroller: Some poster named Lubabah posted on this thread with an FOS at me (based on my comments yesterday on unsan). His/her post has since been deleted, which is why you may not see it.
He's not posting intelligently, though. He's trying to make it sound intelligent.
There's a big difference. Not to mention you conveniently forgot to remember how defensive he got when I first voted for him.
OMFG linkage
Azrael, why are you still pushing the Red thing? Pawn was red (at least he said he was) and he was town. If this tells us NOTHING else, it tells us that there are Red Townies. But you have been pushing the idea that Red is a scummy color from the very beginning. And on what basis? The fact that one of the White Paladins has an ability in the card game to destroy red creatures. Nothing else as far as I can see.
What I think is simple. Either there is an all black mafia, in which case the mafia will be hiding in all colors, or the only black mafia are the Paladins and the other mafia are evenly distrubuted in ALL the other colors (except possibly White). Yes, I realize there are other possibilities. The mafia could be unevenly distrubuted; they could be distributed in all colors including black and white. I just think the odds of those occurances are less. Either way, there is no basis to believe that they are concentrated in RED, and your continuous beating of this drum is suspicious.
Greebo- made some scummy comments on day 1 which were later attributed to n00bishness. Before the end of the day though, he went suicidal and voted himself (during a bandwagon). Unsan leapt to his defense and the bandwagon finally stopped when someone else (don't remember who) offered to defend him.
Vecna- yelled at everyone on day 1 about trolling, spamming, etc, and on day 2 was accused of trolling, posted some useless garbage (spam) and claimed to be drunk/stoned while posting. Also some strangeness with PM-ing another player and telling him to post so he could post something he forgot. As he is still around, I guess HR decided not to kill him. As far as I can tell, people (including me) made attitude votes towards him, but nothing really based on scummy behavior.
Those are the cases in extreme nutshells (at least as far as how I see them). Between the 2, I think Greebo is the scummier one.
I will not be voting for him because I am not dropping unsan until someone investigates him and clears him. For the record, I DO NOT WANT the cop to do this, as this puts him (the cop) in the open and at risk and we need you in the late game. No one has proven that blue is not a mafia color (just as no one has cleared red yet), so unsan claiming Moti doesn't really mean anything to me.
The fact that Vecna has claimed blue and Greebo has claimed red and unsan has claimed blue and I have claimed red doesn't really help clear anyting up.