I don't think aurorasparrow's evidence tells us which way safetydance has flipped. But it DOES tell us that safetydance didn't lie to us about his originally being neutral. He may be lying about what he is now, but we know that he was at least partially telling the truth.
Well I don't see how it even tells us that. Not that I disagree. He probably was neutral to start with (that would be an extremely odd claim to make if it were not true). The issue is when, and under what circumstances he flips. Do you follow my argument that either Sparrow made a mistake with the condition that flips Safety to be a Traitor (because it would be irrelevant), or Safety is lying right now and must be a Traitor?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm trying to calculate how much time we have left here, and what I need to know is whether Ripper can self-protect or not. If he can't self-protect, we only have today and tomorrow to get this right, and I should kill Safety, just to be sure. If he can self-protect we have a 50-50 chance of getting to the day after tomorrow if I don't kill Safety.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I would have been a traitor if three loyalists had been killed in a row before two traitors died.
And yes, I do have one more ability, which is the ability to break ties if there is one.
Who does everyone think is most scummy overall?
probably me :tongue2:
we have a 5-1 advantag over the mafia, no? this means we could reasonably lynch someone who may or may not be town safely. we have no solid leads as to whom may be mafia, so i am in support of lynching the most suspicious person we have - safetydance, hvir, i don't know.
Well, this is annoying, so I'm going to simplify things a bit.
Action: Shoot Hvir.
If he is mafia, we're in the clear. If he isn't, it looks like I'm going to be killed sometime today anyway.
I am Squealer, and I am forced to tell the truth about everything dealing with my role. I just chose to leave this part off.
I am limited to voting for someone with a vote already on them. I am a tiebreaker.
Also, as I stated above, I became loyalist when two traitors were killed before three townies in a row were.
And umm.. that about sums everything up. I wanted to make sure I did something before Axel kills me because it seems like he is going to. Oh, and if I die and you see me as a townie (assuming Hvir is clean) look at Axel. I didn't kill him because his dish-serving thing might be useful to the rest of us/you, etc.
And I do have the same win condition as the rest of you now.
And umm.. that about sums everything up. I wanted to make sure I did something before Axel kills me because it seems like he is going to. Oh, and if I die and you see me as a townie (assuming Hvir is clean) look at Axel. I didn't kill him because his dish-serving thing might be useful to the rest of us/you, etc.
If Hvir is clean, Axel is clean, due to Hvir's investigation.
I rather wish you had discussed this with us beforehand. It's not like I didn't give you ten million opportunities to come clean. I'm sure we could have come up with a better plan than this. I am at a loss right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I rather wish you had discussed this with us beforehand. It's not like I didn't give you ten million opportunities to come clean. I'm sure we could have come up with a better plan than this. I am at a loss right now.
Hmm. Seems to be a good play. We didn't use up a lynch finding out, and we might just end the game right here. If not, then we have only a few suspects remaining, and the rest of the day to decide what to do.
"EDIT": At this point, I'd say our best option if hvir is innocent is for you to serve safetydance some additional noodles, and see what we find there.
If that doesn't work, that will leave you, me, titus, and lt. ripper. Out of those, titus would be the one most likely to be scum and would be next on my list.
However, if we screw that up, we're tossing the game to the mafia, so some caution will be in order if hvir isn't scum.
I swear Azrael, if Hvir. is innocent I really want to vote YOU at this point. Just for giving Safety an excuse to do that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Out of nowhere, SafetyDance pulls out a revolver and shoots it at Hvirfilvindr. After the smoke clears, a dazed but very alive Hvirfilvindr stands, unscathed.
Out of nowhere, SafetyDance pulls out a revolver and shoots it at Hvirfilvindr. After the smoke clears, a dazed but very alive Hvirfilvindr stands, unscathed.
RULES:
2. Bold your votes, please do NOT bold your FOSes or anything else, unless you are using a day ability. If somebody bolds something other than a vote, you can assume it to be a day ability (if its not, they die).
What the hell is going on. If Safety was joking, shouldn't he be dead?
(being on opposite coasts from Sparrow really sucks. He doesn't get on during the week until right when I am going to sleep.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
What the hell is going on. If Safety was joking, shouldn't he be dead?
(being on opposite coasts from Sparrow really sucks. He doesn't get on during the week until right when I am going to sleep.)
Yes, so it's safe to assume that the ability to shoot at people is part of SafetyDance's ability.
Right now I am going to operate under the assumption that whatever Safety did only had a "chance" of working (like a 50% kill) and that it failed, and that Hvir. is still alive (and not going to die tomorrow from some kind of delayed effect.) If I'm wrong about this, my math will get messed up, but Safety has chosen not to explain. This fact pretty much seals his fate in my opinion. If Safety were a Townie, he (she?) should have told us what happened.
I plan to serve my noodles before Sparrow gets back online tonight. If anyone disagrees (or if Safety cares to explain) please speak up. We can still discuss it, and I am open to further suggestions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Right now I am going to operate under the assumption that whatever Safety did only had a "chance" of working (like a 50% kill) and that it failed, and that Hvir. is still alive (and not going to die tomorrow from some kind of delayed effect.) If I'm wrong about this, my math will get messed up, but Safety has chosen not to explain. This fact pretty much seals his fate in my opinion. If Safety were a Townie, he (she?) should have told us what happened.
I plan to serve my noodles before Sparrow gets back online tonight. If anyone disagrees (or if Safety cares to explain) please speak up. We can still discuss it, and I am open to further suggestions.
If he doesn't speak up to explain in about 8 hours or more hours, I'd say go ahead with that. There's no point in not giving him a chance to speak up again, though, the more information we have the better.
Well what happened is I got ripped off. It sounded to me from my PM that I would only have a chance to miss if I did it at night. It sounded pretty clear to me that it was a sure-shot during the day, but whatever.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Screw it. Safety, if you were a Townie, you were a lousy one. That's all I got to say to you.
Action: Serve Dish to SafetyDance
I really hope it's over.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
another dish is served to SafetyDance. SafetyDance eats it, then falls over dead.
SafetyDance was the Squealer. (S)he couldn't lie about his/her role (but didn’t have to tell the entire truth).
SD couldn't vote for anyone with no votes.
In case of tie, whomever SD was voting for was lynched.
SD had a gun with a bullet in it, but had forgot if it was a blank or not. (S)he could make day or nightkills with it, but if (s)he did it during the night (s)he only had a 50% chance of hitting since its dark.
Objective: Survive to the end of the game.
If three loyalists are lynched in a row, SD became a traitor.
If two traitors are lynched before three loyalists in a row are lynched, SD became a loyalist.
This means we have to lynch someone now. Unless anyone wants to consider a No Lynch vote for today. I believe the game ends tomorrow regardless, unless Ripper gets lucky with a protection tonight. There are five of us so its three to lynch. Then there are four. The Traitor kills one more tonight and there are three tomorrow. The remaining two loyalists have to pick right at that point.
If we go no lynch the Traitor kills one tonight and four survive into tomorrow. If we then lynch someone there are three. The game goes to night, the Traitor kills one more and it's still over.
A final possibility is to actually consider going No lynch today, no lynch tomorrow also. Why would we do this? Well, I have a dish that I might, and I stress might, be able to use to identify the last Traitor. But this requires my serving someone tomorrow and then lasting one more day, which won't happen if we lynch anyone. It also won't happen if the Traitor simply kills me during the night. I could ask Ripper for protection, but if the Traitor gets Ripper tonight, then they could still get me the night after. Thus this plan is already doomed to failure (unless Ripper is the final traitor, in which case it could work, since he won't be killing himself).
Or, we could simply give it our best shot today and tomorrow. If I'm not mistaken, Azrael is voting for Hvir. and Ripper is voting for Titus. Titus, Hvir., and myself are not voting yet.
I am leaning towards Titus (reluctantly) because of the whole, immune to inspections thing. But I am willing to consider alternatives. Hvir still seems more unlikely to me. Ripper is a wildcard. Either he's the Doc. or there is no Doc in this game and he made a very clever claim.
Anyone have any other thoughts at this point?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
This means we have to lynch someone now. Unless anyone wants to consider a No Lynch vote for today. I believe the game ends tomorrow regardless, unless Ripper gets lucky with a protection tonight. There are five of us so its three to lynch. Then there are four. The Traitor kills one more tonight and there are three tomorrow. The remaining two loyalists have to pick right at that point.
If we go no lynch the Traitor kills one tonight and four survive into tomorrow. If we then lynch someone there are three. The game goes to night, the Traitor kills one more and it's still over.
A final possibility is to actually consider going No lynch today, no lynch tomorrow also. Why would we do this? Well, I have a dish that I might, and I stress might, be able to use to identify the last Traitor. But this requires my serving someone tomorrow and then lasting one more day, which won't happen if we lynch anyone. It also won't happen if the Traitor simply kills me during the night. I could ask Ripper for protection, but if the Traitor gets Ripper tonight, then they could still get me the night after. Thus this plan is already doomed to failure (unless Ripper is the final traitor, in which case it could work, since he won't be killing himself).
Or, we could simply give it our best shot today and tomorrow. If I'm not mistaken, Azrael is voting for Hvir. and Ripper is voting for Titus. Titus, Hvir., and myself are not voting yet.
I am leaning towards Titus (reluctantly) because of the whole, immune to inspections thing. But I am willing to consider alternatives. Hvir still seems more unlikely to me. Ripper is a wildcard. Either he's the Doc. or there is no Doc in this game and he made a very clever claim.
Anyone have any other thoughts at this point?
Voting no lynch is only going to screw us. We've got to take our last two lynches and make use of them, becuase there's no way this is going to last more than a couple days without a miracle.
I'd say serve your dish to somebody. Have Lt. Ripper protect you, or himself. If they're smart, they'll not hit him tonight and you have a chance of finding them.
As for our last two lynches, here's what I think we got.
Left alive are:
Azrael
Axelrod
Lt. Ripper
Titus
Hvir
Lt. Ripper is completely, 100% cleared IMO. For him to be scum, he'd have to be experienced enough to make a false claim of doc, and he'd have to be foolhardy enough to forget that someone else might make a rival claim.
So, Lt. Ripper is clear.
As for myself, I'm a claimed mason/vigilante. That's been proven. So unless you think that Aurorasparrow gave me two daykills AND made me a false mason, that ought to clear me.
Your ability seems to be townie-ish, axelrod. Investigative and vigilante-ish, and visible to the town. Also, your being a traitor doesn't make terribly much sense flavor-wise, and your voting record is favorable.
That leaves us with Titus and Hvir.
Would everyone agree that these two should be our last two candidates for lynching?
If we can all agree on that, then I'll be willing to vote Titus for today, if we vote Hvir tomorrow. That should win us the game. The other three of us have been almost certainly cleared, so this should be it.
I'd prefer to take hvir today instead, just in case, but i'm pretty sure that the lynch-titus-instead crowd would win 3 to 2.
Well I just served Safety, so I can't serve anyone else today.
My problem is that, since I originally did not suspect any of the remaining players, paranoia has now set in and I see reasonable arguments against everyone, including you, Azrael.
Titus: Can't be inspected-Sounds Godfatherish. Had a list of names-Possible counter to all the town inspection roles. Used list to get roleclaims from everyone-helped Traitors identify targets.
Ripper: Claimed Doc., but waited to do so. Also seemed unsure he was the Doc at first. Said he was confused because it was called "Secutity" in this game, but he still should have known what he was. Having no doc in this game could also be Sparrow's set off for so many inspectorish roles.
Hvir: Well, Azrael laid out this argument already.
Azrael: Again, seems too powerful for a traitor, BUT, with all the inspectors, you and other Traitors would have been more likely to be discovered. So maybe Sparrow did give the Traitors extra kills. Possibly (I think this was suggested before) you had to kill one of your own along with a Loyalist. You also got billking lynched, who was innocent. And you were strangely reluctant to vote KCW. You plan to lynch Titus today, followed by Hvir. tomorrow, sounds strangely like the deal you made (with KCW) to vote billking day one and Titus the day after.
So this is my problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well I just served Safety, so I can't serve anyone else today.
My problem is that, since I originally did not suspect any of the remaining players, paranoia has now set in and I see reasonable arguments against everyone, including you, Azrael.
Titus: Can't be inspected-Sounds Godfatherish. Had a list of names-Possible counter to all the town inspection roles. Used list to get roleclaims from everyone-helped Traitors identify targets.
Ripper: Claimed Doc., but waited to do so. Also seemed unsure he was the Doc at first. Said he was confused because it was called "Secutity" in this game, but he still should have known what he was. Having no doc in this game could also be Sparrow's set off for so many inspectorish roles.
Hvir: Well, Azrael laid out this argument already.
Azrael: Again, seems too powerful for a traitor, BUT, with all the inspectors, you and other Traitors would have been more likely to be discovered. So maybe Sparrow did give the Traitors extra kills. Possibly (I think this was suggested before) you had to kill one of your own along with a Loyalist. You also got billking lynched, who was innocent. And you were strangely reluctant to vote KCW. You plan to lynch Titus today, followed by Hvir. tomorrow, sounds strangely like the deal you made (with KCW) to vote billking day one and Titus the day after.
So this is my problem.
The thing I'm curious about with Titus is why he knew how to match some names with people, such as 20bux and other members of the don's family but not necessarily others.
If he was mafia, and he had names to match all the roles, then there would have been no need to come forward and reveal that he had that list. He would have known all the correct targets already, and sharing that information with the town so we could better coordinate our lynches would have been extremely counter-productive.
Lt. Ripper is clear. He wisely waited to claim doc, because exposing himself to the mafia isn't exactly the best play, last I checked, except under extreme circumstances. He's not experienced enough to have claimed doc, if he wasn't. And aurora sparrow wouldn't have given us a hostile doc, the townie's night kills were hard enough to implement as it is.
You can doubt me, if you wish. I think what's happened in the thread make my innocence pretty clear, however. (what do you mean, reluctant to vote against KCW??? I spearheaded the effort to take him out day one, and I gave my word not to vote for him the 2nd day, plus I could see he was going down very quickly without my having to break my word to ensure it)
But, if what it takes to lynch Hvir is my death, that's fine with me. Kill me either today or tomorrow, and then kill Hvir after or before me. I figure it's a fairly safe bet that Hvir's our last man, so if my sacrifice is what's required, go for it. I doubt that titus is our man, it's possible, but I doubt it, so it's a gamble I'm willing to take.
Prove my objectivity if you have to, or retaliate if I was wrong. It's your choice.
Who do you think is most likely to be scum? Who are the top two, in your book? Figure it out. If i'm not among them, lynch titus and hvir. If I am, then take me up on my offer.
The thing I'm curious about with Titus is why he knew how to match some names with people, such as 20bux and other members of the don's family but not necessarily others.
If he was mafia, and he had names to match all the roles, then there would have been no need to come forward and reveal that he had that list. He would have known all the correct targets already, and sharing that information with the town so we could better coordinate our lynches would have been extremely counter-productive.
EDIT: Yeah. I just also remembered that yeah, if he WAS traitor, then how could he take part in the night kill discussions with the rest of his cronies impartially?
If he had some kind of deal that he couldn't talk about his role knowledge at night with his buddies, that'd not only be impossible to check up on, but his buddies would STILL benefit from his knowledge of role names, and/or who is who, by taking into account which way he voted.
So no, it doesn't make any sense that he would be mafia, with that ability.
Also, I've been in games before where the disadvantage for a powerful member was either to show up as scum, or to show up as unreadable. It's not inconceivable that aurorasparrow has done that here. Titus' behavior and ability don't make sense if he's a traitor.
I can understand why you might think that Lt. Ripper is mafia. His performance hasn't been exactly inspiringly townie. But I don't think aurora would have departed from the tradition of giving us a doc, and if we have a doc, he'd have to be townie, since giving him to the mafia would be almost useless for them, we had only two 1-2 shot vigilantes who's best shot was to fire during the day, not the night. We should be able to safely rule him out.
Well, I've reconsidered my strategy somewhat. I have been playing so as to survive into tomorrow by trying to convince the last Traitor that I have no idea who he is. But that's not entirely true.
So right now I am willing to take you up on your offer Azrael.
Vote: Hvirfilvindr
He was lurking after SafetyDance shot him. Saw him reading the thread. My gut says an innocent would have posted to complain after something like that. A Traitor, however, would have been more likely to up and confess at that point or remain silent and wait and see.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
He was lurking after SafetyDance shot him. Saw him reading the thread. My gut says an innocent would have posted to complain after something like that. A Traitor, however, would have been more likely to up and confess at that point or remain silent and wait and see.
Whether or not a player complains isn't an indicator of loyalties, just personal playing style. Once you get killed in Mafia, there's no point in complaining about it, since what's done is done.
I am also of the opinion that ghosts shouldn't talk, no matter how recently they've died.
Well, I've reconsidered my strategy somewhat. I have been playing so as to survive into tomorrow by trying to convince the last Traitor that I have no idea who he is. But that's not entirely true.
So right now I am willing to take you up on your offer Azrael.
Vote: Hvirfilvindr
He was lurking after SafetyDance shot him. Saw him reading the thread. My gut says an innocent would have posted to complain after something like that. A Traitor, however, would have been more likely to up and confess at that point or remain silent and wait and see.
Hmm. I too would have expected him to at least say something, some kind of last words, if he was a townie. Something along the lines of "goodbye cruel world, make sure you all kill that scum, safetydance", on his way out. I suppose a mafia wouldn't have had much to say though.
Well, I hope we're right. This will probably decide it, one way or another.
These shorter games do make it a bit harder on the town. You don't get as much time to analyze people, and figure out their playing styles. More of a challenge this way, which is nice.
i find it very silly to say that ripper is a 100% cleared townie. he wasn't inspected, and his role is fairly difficult to disprove. his voting record is neutral at best and scummy at worst.
but i also see the merit in azrael's plan, but i say, if anything, we should lynch someone else (if i can't convince otherwise, me, but that's wasting a lynch) today and have hvir inspect at night, with the 'doc' protecting hvir. if hvir dies, we know lt. ripper is scum and the game is over. if hvir lives, we have him to report back to us on the status of ripper. either way, unless they are both in the mafia, we find the status of both of them.
i find it very silly to say that ripper is a 100% cleared townie. he wasn't inspected, and his role is fairly difficult to disprove. his voting record is neutral at best and scummy at worst.
but i also see the merit in azrael's plan, but i say, if anything, we should lynch someone else (if i can't convince otherwise, me, but that's wasting a lynch) today and have hvir inspect at night, with the 'doc' protecting hvir. if hvir dies, we know lt. ripper is scum and the game is over. if hvir lives, we have him to report back to us on the status of ripper. either way, unless they are both in the mafia, we find the status of both of them.
Small problem with that, according to his roleclaim, Hvir. can't inspect tonight because he did it last night (inspecting me). Quite convenient actually.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
i find it very silly to say that ripper is a 100% cleared townie. he wasn't inspected, and his role is fairly difficult to disprove. his voting record is neutral at best and scummy at worst.
but i also see the merit in azrael's plan, but i say, if anything, we should lynch someone else (if i can't convince otherwise, me, but that's wasting a lynch) today and have hvir inspect at night, with the 'doc' protecting hvir. if hvir dies, we know lt. ripper is scum and the game is over. if hvir lives, we have him to report back to us on the status of ripper. either way, unless they are both in the mafia, we find the status of both of them.
If I survive this day, I will not be able to inspect at night, as per my ability limitation. I will only be able to inspect on the night after that, and it will be too late by then.
I have to say that of all the players so far, Azrael stands out as one of the best players in this game. While it is unfortunate that he seems to be of the belief that I am a Traitor, to be fair, I can see how my reluctance to post frequently might be seen as a sign of scumminess to those unfamiliar with m playing style.
I have to say that of all the players so far, Azrael stands out as one of the best players in this game. While it is unfortunate that he seems to be of the belief that I am a Traitor, to be fair, I can see how my reluctance to post frequently might be seen as a sign of scumminess to those unfamiliar with m playing style.
If you are mafia, you really are quite good. For instance, this post might have been designed to accomplish two things:
1. Ingratiate yourself to me by appealing to my vanity, to make me feel as if you're on my side, and become more reluctant to act against you.
2. It misidentifies the true source of my distrust for you: your ability, the plausibility of your character being scum, your reluctance to take sides, and lastly, your talent for avoiding negative attention by speaking out vocally.
What i'm curious about at this point however, is if YOU aren't the last mafia agent, who do you think it is, and by what line of reasoning?
Small problem with that, according to his roleclaim, Hvir. can't inspect tonight because he did it last night (inspecting me). Quite convenient actually.
i find it very silly to say that ripper is a 100% cleared townie. he wasn't inspected, and his role is fairly difficult to disprove. his voting record is neutral at best and scummy at worst.
but i also see the merit in azrael's plan, but i say, if anything, we should lynch someone else (if i can't convince otherwise, me, but that's wasting a lynch) today and have hvir inspect at night, with the 'doc' protecting hvir. if hvir dies, we know lt. ripper is scum and the game is over. if hvir lives, we have him to report back to us on the status of ripper. either way, unless they are both in the mafia, we find the status of both of them.
As long as we lynch two people besides you, you're happy, amirite?
Obv, even if Hvir could investigate tonight, do you honestly think that plan would work when we made it public knowledge? Of course not. If hvir happened to be scum, all he'd have to do was kill Lt. Ripper, or better yet, he could pretend that he investigated Lt. Ripper or someone else and found them to be scum. Or, if you or someone else happened to be scum, all you'd have to do was make it through one more day, and we would have turned Hvir aside from a useful target and made him waste his investigation.
Pretty faulty logic. If not for your ability, this type of thinking, as well as your persistence in disliking Lt. Ripper, coupled with your gambit with musashi, would lead me to distrust you. As is, the list of people the town can really 100% trust in this game isn't too long at the moment.
If you are mafia, you really are quite good. For instance, this post might have been designed to accomplish two things:
1. Ingratiate yourself to me by appealing to my vanity, to make me feel as if you're on my side, and become more reluctant to act against you.
2. It misidentifies the true source of my distrust for you: your ability, the plausibility of your character being scum, your reluctance to take sides, and lastly, your talent for avoiding negative attention by speaking out vocally.
What i'm curious about at this point however, is if YOU aren't the last mafia agent, who do you think it is, and by what line of reasoning?
Let's drown each other in compliments, shall we?
That aside, I currently do NOT believe that either you or Axelrod are Traitors. I disagree with Axelrod's claim that you could be a Traitor, because
a) kingcobweb's theory that you were required to target both a Traitor and a Loyalist with your ability was absurd, since a one for one exchange is never in the interest of the Mafia.
b) Pibbly's death confirmed that you are a Mason, and I have yet to encounter a game where the Mafia were also Masons.
Axelrod cannot be Mafia because my investigation showed him to be Loyalist.
Lt. Ripper is most likely not Mafia, since when kingcobweb was lynched in post #405, it was mentioned that his nightkill could not be blocked and had a 25% chance of not being seen. This would most likely imply that one of the Loyalists has the ability to block kills, and no one else has claimed to have such an ability.
HOWEVER, since kingccobweb's ability description adds that he had a 25% chance of not being seen, it must be deduced that a Loyalist has the ability to watch others at night, an ability that no one else has claimed to have.
As such, while it is possible that the mention of both kill blocking and night watching are red herrings designed to lead player astray, it is more likely that Lt. Ripper is a Loyalist.
I have to say that of all the players so far, Azrael stands out as one of the best players in this game. While it is unfortunate that he seems to be of the belief that I am a Traitor, to be fair, I can see how my reluctance to post frequently might be seen as a sign of scumminess to those unfamiliar with m playing style.
I quite like this one, since if you are NOT Mafia, it's not true. Azrael was quite convinced billking was Mafia day one. He also expressed reservations about KCW on day two, even when KCW's guilt seemed clear. If you were innocent, his record would be quite poor, and we would be in a serious hole.
If you're guilty, however, it was indeed a brilliant deduction.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm sorry but I still think that titus is mafia. He has an "untouchable" ability, and how do we know that he doesn't have some sort or restrictions for his "list"? Or that he doesn't even have a list at all? He didn't actually confirm roles, he just made people say what their role was and he would say "Yep, that's what you are" Or something like that.
Since Ripper won't cast the third vote, that's pretty much where we are, I think. What do you say?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I quite like this one, since if you are NOT Mafia, it's not true. Azrael was quite convinced billking was Mafia day one. He also expressed reservations about KCW on day two, even when KCW's guilt seemed clear. If you were innocent, his record would be quite poor, and we would be in a serious hole.
If you're guilty, however, it was indeed a brilliant deduction.
C'mon! I helped take out 2 out of our three mafia so far: I nuked Chrome Moxen personally, and I was the first (IIRC) to root out and go after KCW seriously.
I do agree with the reasoning that it's pretty much down to Titus and Hvir.
Does it matter too much who we off first? Titus would probably be easier to gain support for. I'm amenable to switching my vote that way, we're down to 2 guys, and it'll be over soon enough. If he's not, then Hvir tomorrow.
Who knows: perhaps it was just a gambit to get on our good side, and Titus' initial casting of suspicion on the don's family may have been just an ill-thought out mafia play, and he may not have thought out the consequences of sparking a mass roleclaim. Still seems a bit of an odd role-choice for a mafia, though, and the showdown between him and KCW is hard to reconcile with him being mafia. Opinions? Coin flip? Pick a number between one and ten?
Well I don't see how it even tells us that. Not that I disagree. He probably was neutral to start with (that would be an extremely odd claim to make if it were not true). The issue is when, and under what circumstances he flips. Do you follow my argument that either Sparrow made a mistake with the condition that flips Safety to be a Traitor (because it would be irrelevant), or Safety is lying right now and must be a Traitor?
I'm trying to calculate how much time we have left here, and what I need to know is whether Ripper can self-protect or not. If he can't self-protect, we only have today and tomorrow to get this right, and I should kill Safety, just to be sure. If he can self-protect we have a 50-50 chance of getting to the day after tomorrow if I don't kill Safety.
I would have been a traitor if three loyalists had been killed in a row before two traitors died.
And yes, I do have one more ability, which is the ability to break ties if there is one.
Who does everyone think is most scummy overall?
probably me :tongue2:
we have a 5-1 advantag over the mafia, no? this means we could reasonably lynch someone who may or may not be town safely. we have no solid leads as to whom may be mafia, so i am in support of lynching the most suspicious person we have - safetydance, hvir, i don't know.
i have to reread this thread, again.
Action: Shoot Hvir.
If he is mafia, we're in the clear. If he isn't, it looks like I'm going to be killed sometime today anyway.
I am Squealer, and I am forced to tell the truth about everything dealing with my role. I just chose to leave this part off.
I am limited to voting for someone with a vote already on them. I am a tiebreaker.
Also, as I stated above, I became loyalist when two traitors were killed before three townies in a row were.
And umm.. that about sums everything up. I wanted to make sure I did something before Axel kills me because it seems like he is going to. Oh, and if I die and you see me as a townie (assuming Hvir is clean) look at Axel. I didn't kill him because his dish-serving thing might be useful to the rest of us/you, etc.
And I do have the same win condition as the rest of you now.
Have fun!
If Hvir is clean, Axel is clean, due to Hvir's investigation.
I rather wish you had discussed this with us beforehand. It's not like I didn't give you ten million opportunities to come clean. I'm sure we could have come up with a better plan than this. I am at a loss right now.
Hmm. Seems to be a good play. We didn't use up a lynch finding out, and we might just end the game right here. If not, then we have only a few suspects remaining, and the rest of the day to decide what to do.
If that doesn't work, that will leave you, me, titus, and lt. ripper. Out of those, titus would be the one most likely to be scum and would be next on my list.
However, if we screw that up, we're tossing the game to the mafia, so some caution will be in order if hvir isn't scum.
Yeah I missed that. Titus would be a good place to start then. You're bound to get lucky sometime.
if hvir is clean and you die... we have no more wiggle room.
Out of nowhere, SafetyDance pulls out a revolver and shoots it at Hvirfilvindr. After the smoke clears, a dazed but very alive Hvirfilvindr stands, unscathed.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
O.o
Poison dart? :\
hvir, safety - explain.
I've got nothing - I expected to be dead by now.
What the hell is going on. If Safety was joking, shouldn't he be dead?
(being on opposite coasts from Sparrow really sucks. He doesn't get on during the week until right when I am going to sleep.)
Yes, so it's safe to assume that the ability to shoot at people is part of SafetyDance's ability.
Aside: Safetydance is a she.
:confused3:
What just happened, exactly?
Did you have a chance of missing, or does that bullet have some kind of special effect?
IIRC "she" is a web transvestite, but I could be wrong.
Right now I am going to operate under the assumption that whatever Safety did only had a "chance" of working (like a 50% kill) and that it failed, and that Hvir. is still alive (and not going to die tomorrow from some kind of delayed effect.) If I'm wrong about this, my math will get messed up, but Safety has chosen not to explain. This fact pretty much seals his fate in my opinion. If Safety were a Townie, he (she?) should have told us what happened.
I plan to serve my noodles before Sparrow gets back online tonight. If anyone disagrees (or if Safety cares to explain) please speak up. We can still discuss it, and I am open to further suggestions.
If he doesn't speak up to explain in about 8 hours or more hours, I'd say go ahead with that. There's no point in not giving him a chance to speak up again, though, the more information we have the better.
*shrug*
Action: Serve Dish to SafetyDance
I really hope it's over.
SafetyDance was the Squealer. (S)he couldn't lie about his/her role (but didn’t have to tell the entire truth).
SD couldn't vote for anyone with no votes.
In case of tie, whomever SD was voting for was lynched.
SD had a gun with a bullet in it, but had forgot if it was a blank or not. (S)he could make day or nightkills with it, but if (s)he did it during the night (s)he only had a 50% chance of hitting since its dark.
Objective: Survive to the end of the game.
If three loyalists are lynched in a row, SD became a traitor.
If two traitors are lynched before three loyalists in a row are lynched, SD became a loyalist.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
But props to aurora, I like that role
We didn't lynch three townies in a row, Lt. Ripper. We killed KCW, remember?
This means we have to lynch someone now. Unless anyone wants to consider a No Lynch vote for today. I believe the game ends tomorrow regardless, unless Ripper gets lucky with a protection tonight. There are five of us so its three to lynch. Then there are four. The Traitor kills one more tonight and there are three tomorrow. The remaining two loyalists have to pick right at that point.
If we go no lynch the Traitor kills one tonight and four survive into tomorrow. If we then lynch someone there are three. The game goes to night, the Traitor kills one more and it's still over.
A final possibility is to actually consider going No lynch today, no lynch tomorrow also. Why would we do this? Well, I have a dish that I might, and I stress might, be able to use to identify the last Traitor. But this requires my serving someone tomorrow and then lasting one more day, which won't happen if we lynch anyone. It also won't happen if the Traitor simply kills me during the night. I could ask Ripper for protection, but if the Traitor gets Ripper tonight, then they could still get me the night after. Thus this plan is already doomed to failure (unless Ripper is the final traitor, in which case it could work, since he won't be killing himself).
Or, we could simply give it our best shot today and tomorrow. If I'm not mistaken, Azrael is voting for Hvir. and Ripper is voting for Titus. Titus, Hvir., and myself are not voting yet.
I am leaning towards Titus (reluctantly) because of the whole, immune to inspections thing. But I am willing to consider alternatives. Hvir still seems more unlikely to me. Ripper is a wildcard. Either he's the Doc. or there is no Doc in this game and he made a very clever claim.
Anyone have any other thoughts at this point?
Voting no lynch is only going to screw us. We've got to take our last two lynches and make use of them, becuase there's no way this is going to last more than a couple days without a miracle.
I'd say serve your dish to somebody. Have Lt. Ripper protect you, or himself. If they're smart, they'll not hit him tonight and you have a chance of finding them.
As for our last two lynches, here's what I think we got.
Left alive are:
Azrael
Axelrod
Lt. Ripper
Titus
Hvir
Lt. Ripper is completely, 100% cleared IMO. For him to be scum, he'd have to be experienced enough to make a false claim of doc, and he'd have to be foolhardy enough to forget that someone else might make a rival claim.
So, Lt. Ripper is clear.
As for myself, I'm a claimed mason/vigilante. That's been proven. So unless you think that Aurorasparrow gave me two daykills AND made me a false mason, that ought to clear me.
Your ability seems to be townie-ish, axelrod. Investigative and vigilante-ish, and visible to the town. Also, your being a traitor doesn't make terribly much sense flavor-wise, and your voting record is favorable.
That leaves us with Titus and Hvir.
Would everyone agree that these two should be our last two candidates for lynching?
If we can all agree on that, then I'll be willing to vote Titus for today, if we vote Hvir tomorrow. That should win us the game. The other three of us have been almost certainly cleared, so this should be it.
I'd prefer to take hvir today instead, just in case, but i'm pretty sure that the lynch-titus-instead crowd would win 3 to 2.
My problem is that, since I originally did not suspect any of the remaining players, paranoia has now set in and I see reasonable arguments against everyone, including you, Azrael.
Titus: Can't be inspected-Sounds Godfatherish. Had a list of names-Possible counter to all the town inspection roles. Used list to get roleclaims from everyone-helped Traitors identify targets.
Ripper: Claimed Doc., but waited to do so. Also seemed unsure he was the Doc at first. Said he was confused because it was called "Secutity" in this game, but he still should have known what he was. Having no doc in this game could also be Sparrow's set off for so many inspectorish roles.
Hvir: Well, Azrael laid out this argument already.
Azrael: Again, seems too powerful for a traitor, BUT, with all the inspectors, you and other Traitors would have been more likely to be discovered. So maybe Sparrow did give the Traitors extra kills. Possibly (I think this was suggested before) you had to kill one of your own along with a Loyalist. You also got billking lynched, who was innocent. And you were strangely reluctant to vote KCW. You plan to lynch Titus today, followed by Hvir. tomorrow, sounds strangely like the deal you made (with KCW) to vote billking day one and Titus the day after.
So this is my problem.
The thing I'm curious about with Titus is why he knew how to match some names with people, such as 20bux and other members of the don's family but not necessarily others.
If he was mafia, and he had names to match all the roles, then there would have been no need to come forward and reveal that he had that list. He would have known all the correct targets already, and sharing that information with the town so we could better coordinate our lynches would have been extremely counter-productive.
Lt. Ripper is clear. He wisely waited to claim doc, because exposing himself to the mafia isn't exactly the best play, last I checked, except under extreme circumstances. He's not experienced enough to have claimed doc, if he wasn't. And aurora sparrow wouldn't have given us a hostile doc, the townie's night kills were hard enough to implement as it is.
You can doubt me, if you wish. I think what's happened in the thread make my innocence pretty clear, however. (what do you mean, reluctant to vote against KCW??? I spearheaded the effort to take him out day one, and I gave my word not to vote for him the 2nd day, plus I could see he was going down very quickly without my having to break my word to ensure it)
But, if what it takes to lynch Hvir is my death, that's fine with me. Kill me either today or tomorrow, and then kill Hvir after or before me. I figure it's a fairly safe bet that Hvir's our last man, so if my sacrifice is what's required, go for it. I doubt that titus is our man, it's possible, but I doubt it, so it's a gamble I'm willing to take.
Prove my objectivity if you have to, or retaliate if I was wrong. It's your choice.
Who do you think is most likely to be scum? Who are the top two, in your book? Figure it out. If i'm not among them, lynch titus and hvir. If I am, then take me up on my offer.
EDIT: Yeah. I just also remembered that yeah, if he WAS traitor, then how could he take part in the night kill discussions with the rest of his cronies impartially?
If he had some kind of deal that he couldn't talk about his role knowledge at night with his buddies, that'd not only be impossible to check up on, but his buddies would STILL benefit from his knowledge of role names, and/or who is who, by taking into account which way he voted.
So no, it doesn't make any sense that he would be mafia, with that ability.
Also, I've been in games before where the disadvantage for a powerful member was either to show up as scum, or to show up as unreadable. It's not inconceivable that aurorasparrow has done that here. Titus' behavior and ability don't make sense if he's a traitor.
I can understand why you might think that Lt. Ripper is mafia. His performance hasn't been exactly inspiringly townie. But I don't think aurora would have departed from the tradition of giving us a doc, and if we have a doc, he'd have to be townie, since giving him to the mafia would be almost useless for them, we had only two 1-2 shot vigilantes who's best shot was to fire during the day, not the night. We should be able to safely rule him out.
So right now I am willing to take you up on your offer Azrael.
Vote: Hvirfilvindr
He was lurking after SafetyDance shot him. Saw him reading the thread. My gut says an innocent would have posted to complain after something like that. A Traitor, however, would have been more likely to up and confess at that point or remain silent and wait and see.
Whether or not a player complains isn't an indicator of loyalties, just personal playing style. Once you get killed in Mafia, there's no point in complaining about it, since what's done is done.
I am also of the opinion that ghosts shouldn't talk, no matter how recently they've died.
Hmm. I too would have expected him to at least say something, some kind of last words, if he was a townie. Something along the lines of "goodbye cruel world, make sure you all kill that scum, safetydance", on his way out. I suppose a mafia wouldn't have had much to say though.
Well, I hope we're right. This will probably decide it, one way or another.
These shorter games do make it a bit harder on the town. You don't get as much time to analyze people, and figure out their playing styles. More of a challenge this way, which is nice.
but i also see the merit in azrael's plan, but i say, if anything, we should lynch someone else (if i can't convince otherwise, me, but that's wasting a lynch) today and have hvir inspect at night, with the 'doc' protecting hvir. if hvir dies, we know lt. ripper is scum and the game is over. if hvir lives, we have him to report back to us on the status of ripper. either way, unless they are both in the mafia, we find the status of both of them.
Small problem with that, according to his roleclaim, Hvir. can't inspect tonight because he did it last night (inspecting me). Quite convenient actually.
If I survive this day, I will not be able to inspect at night, as per my ability limitation. I will only be able to inspect on the night after that, and it will be too late by then.
I have to say that of all the players so far, Azrael stands out as one of the best players in this game. While it is unfortunate that he seems to be of the belief that I am a Traitor, to be fair, I can see how my reluctance to post frequently might be seen as a sign of scumminess to those unfamiliar with m playing style.
If you are mafia, you really are quite good. For instance, this post might have been designed to accomplish two things:
1. Ingratiate yourself to me by appealing to my vanity, to make me feel as if you're on my side, and become more reluctant to act against you.
2. It misidentifies the true source of my distrust for you: your ability, the plausibility of your character being scum, your reluctance to take sides, and lastly, your talent for avoiding negative attention by speaking out vocally.
What i'm curious about at this point however, is if YOU aren't the last mafia agent, who do you think it is, and by what line of reasoning?
oh, i see.
well then, shall i throw that last vote on there?
As long as we lynch two people besides you, you're happy, amirite?
Obv, even if Hvir could investigate tonight, do you honestly think that plan would work when we made it public knowledge? Of course not. If hvir happened to be scum, all he'd have to do was kill Lt. Ripper, or better yet, he could pretend that he investigated Lt. Ripper or someone else and found them to be scum. Or, if you or someone else happened to be scum, all you'd have to do was make it through one more day, and we would have turned Hvir aside from a useful target and made him waste his investigation.
Pretty faulty logic. If not for your ability, this type of thinking, as well as your persistence in disliking Lt. Ripper, coupled with your gambit with musashi, would lead me to distrust you. As is, the list of people the town can really 100% trust in this game isn't too long at the moment.
Let's drown each other in compliments, shall we?
That aside, I currently do NOT believe that either you or Axelrod are Traitors. I disagree with Axelrod's claim that you could be a Traitor, because
a) kingcobweb's theory that you were required to target both a Traitor and a Loyalist with your ability was absurd, since a one for one exchange is never in the interest of the Mafia.
b) Pibbly's death confirmed that you are a Mason, and I have yet to encounter a game where the Mafia were also Masons.
Axelrod cannot be Mafia because my investigation showed him to be Loyalist.
Lt. Ripper is most likely not Mafia, since when kingcobweb was lynched in post #405, it was mentioned that his nightkill could not be blocked and had a 25% chance of not being seen. This would most likely imply that one of the Loyalists has the ability to block kills, and no one else has claimed to have such an ability.
HOWEVER, since kingccobweb's ability description adds that he had a 25% chance of not being seen, it must be deduced that a Loyalist has the ability to watch others at night, an ability that no one else has claimed to have.
As such, while it is possible that the mention of both kill blocking and night watching are red herrings designed to lead player astray, it is more likely that Lt. Ripper is a Loyalist.
By deduction, that leaves titus.
i'm not sure on lt. ripper, but i'm not mafia
I quite like this one, since if you are NOT Mafia, it's not true. Azrael was quite convinced billking was Mafia day one. He also expressed reservations about KCW on day two, even when KCW's guilt seemed clear. If you were innocent, his record would be quite poor, and we would be in a serious hole.
If you're guilty, however, it was indeed a brilliant deduction.
Is it stil 4 to lynch?
No, it's now 3 to lynch. All that's required is a simple majority.
Since Ripper won't cast the third vote, that's pretty much where we are, I think. What do you say?
C'mon! I helped take out 2 out of our three mafia so far: I nuked Chrome Moxen personally, and I was the first (IIRC) to root out and go after KCW seriously.
I do agree with the reasoning that it's pretty much down to Titus and Hvir.
Does it matter too much who we off first? Titus would probably be easier to gain support for. I'm amenable to switching my vote that way, we're down to 2 guys, and it'll be over soon enough. If he's not, then Hvir tomorrow.
Who knows: perhaps it was just a gambit to get on our good side, and Titus' initial casting of suspicion on the don's family may have been just an ill-thought out mafia play, and he may not have thought out the consequences of sparking a mass roleclaim. Still seems a bit of an odd role-choice for a mafia, though, and the showdown between him and KCW is hard to reconcile with him being mafia. Opinions? Coin flip? Pick a number between one and ten?