4CH Incremental Mana
Hand Size: 4 cards.
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule: Each player gets an emblem with "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the greatest number of turns an opponent has taken."
Rules and banned list
Be sure to review the rules and regular banned list by clicking below. In addition, be sure to review the "Land Rule" banned list as well.
Format ideas?
If you have a format you'd like to try, send me a message, mention it along with the cards in your hand, or post it here!
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. win the game
ii. take an infinite number of turns
iii. cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds have been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. A player must choose an opening hand that enables that player to win both games of a match against at least one legal hand, irrespective of rule 7.5a.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchanges hands before the start of each match. A hand must enable the player of that hand to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. Bonus Points.
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Format Suggestion: 1001 Nights (XCH LR)
Each player starts the first game with an emblem with the text "At the beginning of your end step, cast a copy of Shahrazad." (This emblem does not exist in subgames.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Format Suggestion: 1001 Nights (XCH LR)
Each player starts the first game with an emblem with the text "At the beginning of your end step, cast a copy of Shahrazad." (This emblem does not exist in subgames.)
Thanks for the idea!
What should players use for their decks in the subgames?
Thanks for the idea!
What should players use for their decks in the subgames?
Hmm... Well, here's the ideas I can come up with:
-From and to library, like Shahrazad says: Only works in decks that include ways to shuffle back in (Eldrazi, Elixir, etc.), so the round rule takes certain ways of building around. (Probably a larger hand size here to allow for it.)
-Choose some number of cards in hand, return them to the librar:. Seems interesting to me, since it's a tradeoff of choosing to temporarily lose cards in the main game to win the subgame. (Also, would it be APNAP for who picks what first?) The decision trees might be impossible to parse, though.
-Choose all cards in hand, return to library: This could be interesting to build around. If they're returned randomly, determining the worst order would make decisions awful; if they're returned in order, it repeatedly limits handsize to 1. Possibly weird.
-Choose some or all in hand, return to hand: Takes away the drawbacks of temporarily losing a card in the main game, but it focuses on the main conflict, which is that, if you spend a card in the main game, you might start losing in the subgames. Simpler option.
-From and to library, but start the game with an emblem of Wheel of Sun and Moon for each player: this means you don't need to build around it. I think this might be one of my favorite options, but I don't really know how any of these would work in practice.
I dunno. If anyone else has ideas, or (for that matter) doesn't want to do this format, then that's all fine with me
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I would say the easiest way to do that would be to just choose a subset of the cards in your hand and start the subgame with that subset. And to make it even easier, maybe make it only 1 or 2 cards from your main hand.
Slow Roll 2017 (3CH LR)
Players begin the game at 100 life.
Players can't lose the game unless they have 0 or less life.
Slow Fork (5CH)
Instants and Sorceries have rebound.
Whenever a nontoken permanent enters the battlefield, that permanent's controller creates a token as a copy of that permanent at the beginning of his or her next upkeep. (You'll get a token even if that permanent leaves the battlefield.)
Retrace (2CH DLR)
Instants and Sorceries have retrace.
Banned: Time Walk
Gotta say, I love seeing the resurgence of format suggestions!
Tentatively, next weeks format will be 5CH Slow Fork:
Hand Size: 5 cards.
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule: Instant and sorcery spells have rebound.
Whenever a nontoken permanent enters the battlefield, its controller creates a token that's a copy of that permanent at the beginning of his or her next upkeep. (You'll get a token even if that permanent leaves the battlefield.)
Bans: Eon Hub
I want to give Shahrazad a little more thought before implementing it, because that card isn't simple.
I have a few ideas floating around for future formats, but I like the current crop of suggestions and will hold off on posting those until I've thought them through a bit more. I typically don't plan too far ahead, except when I re-watched footage of Kuroda's PT Kobe top 8 matches, fell in love with Pulse of the Forge all over again, and based the next two weeks on playing on the opponent's turn and mana burning / life manipulation.
Also, as a reminder to those who haven't submitted yet, hands for the current round are due in about days' time.
It works the same as, say, Spikeshot Elder: if you activate its ability and then it dies before resolution, it will deal its last known power. On the other hand if you reduce its power before the ability resolves, the ability will use the current information on resolution and deal less damage.
In the case of the delayed clones it might matter if, just for example, you play a hasty creature and attack into a Permeating Mass. The hasty creature becomes a copy of the mass and then the token copy that you get next turn will be a mass as well. This is the default behavior and is what you should probably go with rather than adding erratas or explicit exceptions. I think it's mostly only relevant for morph creatures.
Is that reminder text or errata? Because if the permanent is still in play when the copy is made, that might not necessarily be true.
I meant it as a reminder only, and you're right. My wording was ambiguous at best. What I tried to express was just that if the permanent leaves the battlefield, you still get a copy next turn.
It should work exactly as Riku's trigger and all others, as far as copying, just with delayed timing.
If the permanent that caused the ability to trigger has already left the battlefield by the time the ability resolves, you’ll still put a token onto the battlefield. That token has the copiable values of the characteristics of that permanent as it last existed on the battlefield.
Edit: I mod-abused to edit the reminder text in the posts above to avoid confusion.
Thank you both for the analysis. I've re-read the relevant rules so that I'm on the same page and agree with what's been posted.
Barring any further changes before the next round is posted, the rules for the format will be those listed in post #8.
I'm adding Eon Hub to the banned list for next round.
I don't know how potent it would be, but I'd rather not include such a clean way to turn off everything.
Seems like a bit of an arbitrary ban in a round that already has doubled black lotuses and doubled time walks; I feel like there are larger concerns, especially when Hub doesn't even stop the original spell.
Seems like a bit of an arbitrary ban in a round that already has doubled black lotuses and doubled time walks; I feel like there are larger concerns, especially when Hub doesn't even stop the original spell.
It's arbitary on a metric of expected power level; indeed, there's a decent chance Hub wouldn't be an effective strategy.
That said, I think the format is more interesting without Hub as a potential constraint.
Well, I definitely missed the aspect of countering the round trigger. I've made a note to myself to be mindful of that potential going forward.
Regardless, I enjoyed this round and the opportunity to finally play the scepter. The closest contender among other hands I was considering was the ABC's of mind control: Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Conjurer's Bauble / Mindslaver.
On another note, there was slightly lower turnout this round than in the past few rounds. Not knowing the particular cause, if anyone wants to provide feedback, I always welcome it. We seem anyway to have developed a good core of players, and I'm also happy with that.
EDIT: Scoring this round didn't seem too complicated, so here's my pass at the grid:
--Ratchet bomb on 0 will stop you from winning since you won't be able to hide Gargoyle, but you can just Balance anyway to stop me from winning 2-2
6) WhammeWhamme
Balancing Act / Boseiju, Who Shelters All / Duskmantle, House of Shadow / Greater Gargadon
--OTP, you can turn 1 gargadon and turn 2 balancing act, but OTD I can cast turn 1 anvil and inkmoth kills you one turn before gargadon kills me / ratchet bomb blows it up 3-3
Yeah, how am I supposed to beat his Leyline of the Void?
EDIT: I'm also reasonably sure that I go 3-3 against Feyd_Ruin since he can activate Chronatog before combat and/or on my upkeep to avoid mid-combat stifles.
MOAR EDIT: Hrm, wait. That one is actually pretty tricky.
Incidentally, I would like more attention to correctly scoring matches. Last round's scores seem wrong in a number of ways. If people aren't going to score their own darn matches though then it becomes understandably difficult, especially with the math being as tricky as it is for the manaburns.
On another note, there was slightly lower turnout this round than in the past few rounds. Not knowing the particular cause, if anyone wants to provide feedback, I always welcome it.
One thing is, it seems way more common now as opposed to when I used to play before to not score your deck
Yeah, how am I supposed to beat his Leyline of the Void?
Ok, not my best moment. Leylines (except the ones that are banned) have the kind of effect on a game that I tend to forget. I will almost certainly overlook a Leyline of the Void again in the future, but I am trying to be better about it!
EDIT: I'm also reasonably sure that I go 3-3 against Feyd_Ruin since he can activate Chronatog before combat and/or on my upkeep to avoid mid-combat stifles.
You can also return Lotus. Stifle every other turn when it's relevant. You take four (double sulfuric), and Feyd takes five (attack plus sulfuric). Feyd can't afford to attack back because it would leave Chronatog tapped.
Incidentally, I would like more attention to correctly scoring matches. Last round's scores seem wrong in a number of ways. If people aren't going to score their own darn matches though then it becomes understandably difficult, especially with the math being as tricky as it is for the manaburns.
Noted - I often don't post my results line, because I know I'm going to get to it eventually anyway when I post the round. I acknowledge it would probably help if I were more consistent in that respect and will therefore be more consistent in future rounds, since more people posting results hopefully encourages others to do the same. That's basically the extent to which I think I can control the scoring.
On another note, there was slightly lower turnout this round than in the past few rounds. Not knowing the particular cause, if anyone wants to provide feedback, I always welcome it.
One thing is, it seems way more common now as opposed to when I used to play before to not score your deck
I've responded to this partially above. You and Anachronity share this concern, so it's at least helpful if not in and of itself good to see some through-line on areas of improvement. Beyond what I've said in my response to Anachronity, do you have any further suggestions about ways that I can have an effect here?
It's admittedly not an area I had given much thought until now. When I started playing, full grids were calculated by the moderator, and I think the shift to player responsibility for scores has been gradual but it definitely helps to prevent burnout on the moderator end so I'm in favor of keeping that approach and working with it as required.
Yeah when I moderated the Modern no land rule version forever ago, I always ended up calculating the grid myself. I think that making the players do it is to keep the responsibilities of the mods low is a good idea, I definitely agree there.
I'm not really sure what else could be done. I've really enjoyed the special rule weeks we've been having for a while now, and the decline of participants might just be the waxing and waning of people's interest.
I also agree that there's only so much you can do to get people to score themselves.
Speaking of which, I think my games vs. Feyd_Ruin go like this...
Feyd T1 (20 life): lotus, lotus, chronatog, sulferic vortex; activate Chronatog (doesn't attack)
Me T1 (20 life): take 2 from Vortex (18); lotus, island, scavenger; Feyd activates Chronatog (now he skips his next two turns)
Me T2 (18): Scavenger trigger, Vortex trigger, Stifle Vortex. In response to Stifle, Feyd activates Chronatog, Vortex stifled, I get Stifle back; can't attack through 4/5 chronatog
Me T3 (18): same as last turn, until either I choose to take Vortex damage in order to Stifle Chronatog, or Feyd chooses not to Chronatog twice in a row and take his turn. This standstill ends up hurting the one who breaks it, so in order to not stalemate I would need to break it.
Me T4 (18): upkeep: Scavenger, take 2 from Vortex (16), get Lotus back; play&sac Lotus, Feyd activates Chronatog before combat and I Stifle, then attack for 3 (Feyd at 17, skips next turn)
Me T5 (16): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (14), Feyd activates Chronatog IRT Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back.
Me T6 (14): upkeep: Scavenger, Vortex, Stifle Vortex, Chronatog in response; we're back where we were, except Feyd only has one-turn deficit.
Me T7 (14): same as my T4, 2 from Vortex puts me at (12), Feyd at (14) after attack.
Feyd T2 (14): 2 from Vortex (10), activate Chronatog (I don't have Stifle); don't attack
Me T8 (12): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (10), Chronatog before I get Stifle back
Me T9 (10): Now we really are back where we were on my T3, including Feyd's 2-turn deficit, except we both lost 8 life (me 10, Feyd 12)
(...)
Me T15: I'm at 4, I'll die with Feyd still at 3 if I attack.
Me T1 (20 life): lotus, island, scavenger
Feyd T1 (20 life): lotus, lotus, chronatog, sulferic vortex; activate Chronatog, I Stifle
Me T2 (20): Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (18), Chronatog in response to Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back
Me T3 (18): we're back at T6 from when I'm OTP (stall with 1-turn deficit, but with different life totals)
(...)
Me T6: same at OTP T3 (2-turn deficit stall) except I'm at 14 and Feyd is at 15
(...)
Me T12: 2-turn deficit stall again; I'm at 6 and Feyd is at 7
Me T13 (6): upkeep: Scavenger, take 2 from Vortex (4), get Lotus back; play&sac Lotus, Feyd activates Chronatog before combat and I Stifle, then attack for 3 (Feyd at 4, skips next turn)
Me T14 (4): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (2), Feyd activates Chronatog IRT Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back.
Me T15 (2): we're at a 1-turn deficit stall; I can't break it or I'll lose to Vortex.
So it's 2-2 I think. If there's any better line of play for me, please let me know.
4CH Incremental Mana
Hand Size: 4 cards.
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule: Each player gets an emblem with "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is the greatest number of turns an opponent has taken."
Hands:
1) Anachronity :: Rule 605.1b: The Reckoning!
Anurid Scavenger / Black Lotus / Island / Stifle
2) CalvinSchwa :: Nihilist Meditation
Balance / Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Quest for the Nihil Stone / Tireless Tribe
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Cause its funny.
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Chronatog / Sulfuric Vortex
4) Mogg
Balance / Gustha's Scepter / Void Snare / Voidstone Gargoyle
5) knobbodi
Anvil of Bogardan / Inkmoth Nexus / Leyline of the Void / Ratchet Bomb
6) WhammeWhamme
Balancing Act / Boseiju, Who Shelters All / Duskmantle, House of Shadow / Greater Gargadon
Results:
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
1| X 6 2 6 0 6 | 20 | 400
2| 0 X 0 0 2 6 | 08 | 160
3| 2 6 X 0 6 6 | 20 | 400
4| 0 6 6 X 2 3 | 16 | 320
5| 6 2 0 2 X 3 | 12 | 240
6| 0 0 0 3 3 X | 04 | 080
Anachronity and Feyd_Ruin win!
Rules and banned list
Be sure to review the rules and regular banned list by clicking below. In addition, be sure to review the "Land Rule" banned list as well.
Format ideas?
If you have a format you'd like to try, send me a message, mention it along with the cards in your hand, or post it here!
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or her discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's result against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands typically containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. Bonus Points.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Acceleration
Channel
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Beast Within
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Leyline of Singularity
Pact of Negation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Barren Glory
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Laboratory Maniac
Leyline of the Meek
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Vampire Hexmage
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Acceleration
Black Lotus
Disruption
Balancing Act
Energy Field
Win Conditions
Beacon of Creation
Maralen of the Mornsong
Nezumi Shortfang
Red Sun's Zenith
White Sun's Zenith
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Each player starts the first game with an emblem with the text "At the beginning of your end step, cast a copy of Shahrazad." (This emblem does not exist in subgames.)
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Thanks for the idea!
What should players use for their decks in the subgames?
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-From and to library, like Shahrazad says: Only works in decks that include ways to shuffle back in (Eldrazi, Elixir, etc.), so the round rule takes certain ways of building around. (Probably a larger hand size here to allow for it.)
-Choose some number of cards in hand, return them to the librar:. Seems interesting to me, since it's a tradeoff of choosing to temporarily lose cards in the main game to win the subgame. (Also, would it be APNAP for who picks what first?) The decision trees might be impossible to parse, though.
-Choose all cards in hand, return to library: This could be interesting to build around. If they're returned randomly, determining the worst order would make decisions awful; if they're returned in order, it repeatedly limits handsize to 1. Possibly weird.
-Choose some or all in hand, return to hand: Takes away the drawbacks of temporarily losing a card in the main game, but it focuses on the main conflict, which is that, if you spend a card in the main game, you might start losing in the subgames. Simpler option.
-From and to library, but start the game with an emblem of Wheel of Sun and Moon for each player: this means you don't need to build around it. I think this might be one of my favorite options, but I don't really know how any of these would work in practice.
I dunno. If anyone else has ideas, or (for that matter) doesn't want to do this format, then that's all fine with me
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Players begin the game at 100 life.
Players can't lose the game unless they have 0 or less life.
Slow Fork (5CH)
Instants and Sorceries have rebound.
Whenever a nontoken permanent enters the battlefield, that permanent's controller creates a token as a copy of that permanent at the beginning of his or her next upkeep. (You'll get a token even if that permanent leaves the battlefield.)
Retrace (2CH DLR)
Instants and Sorceries have retrace.
Banned: Time Walk
No longer staff here.
- Rabid Wombat
Tentatively, next weeks format will be 5CH Slow Fork:
Hand Size: 5 cards.
Land Rule: None.
Format Rule: Instant and sorcery spells have rebound.
Whenever a nontoken permanent enters the battlefield, its controller creates a token that's a copy of that permanent at the beginning of his or her next upkeep. (You'll get a token even if that permanent leaves the battlefield.)
Bans: Eon Hub
I want to give Shahrazad a little more thought before implementing it, because that card isn't simple.
I have a few ideas floating around for future formats, but I like the current crop of suggestions and will hold off on posting those until I've thought them through a bit more. I typically don't plan too far ahead, except when I re-watched footage of Kuroda's PT Kobe top 8 matches, fell in love with Pulse of the Forge all over again, and based the next two weeks on playing on the opponent's turn and mana burning / life manipulation.
Also, as a reminder to those who haven't submitted yet, hands for the current round are due in about days' time.
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Is that reminder text or errata? Because if the permanent is still in play when the copy is made, that might not necessarily be true.
- Rabid Wombat
It's something I need to look into - it's not obvious to me how delayed copies work, but I'll try to clarify tonight (mid-morning here now).
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In the case of the delayed clones it might matter if, just for example, you play a hasty creature and attack into a Permeating Mass. The hasty creature becomes a copy of the mass and then the token copy that you get next turn will be a mass as well. This is the default behavior and is what you should probably go with rather than adding erratas or explicit exceptions. I think it's mostly only relevant for morph creatures.
- Rabid Wombat
It should work exactly as Riku's trigger and all others, as far as copying, just with delayed timing.
Edit: I mod-abused to edit the reminder text in the posts above to avoid confusion.
No longer staff here.
Barring any further changes before the next round is posted, the rules for the format will be those listed in post #8.
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I don't know how potent it would be, but I'd rather not include such a clean way to turn off everything.
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- Rabid Wombat
It's arbitary on a metric of expected power level; indeed, there's a decent chance Hub wouldn't be an effective strategy.
That said, I think the format is more interesting without Hub as a potential constraint.
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Regardless, I enjoyed this round and the opportunity to finally play the scepter. The closest contender among other hands I was considering was the ABC's of mind control: Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Conjurer's Bauble / Mindslaver.
On another note, there was slightly lower turnout this round than in the past few rounds. Not knowing the particular cause, if anyone wants to provide feedback, I always welcome it. We seem anyway to have developed a good core of players, and I'm also happy with that.
EDIT: Scoring this round didn't seem too complicated, so here's my pass at the grid:
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
1| X 6 2 6 0 6 | 20 | 400
2| 0 X 0 0 2 6 | 08 | 160
3| 2 6 X 0 6 6 | 20 | 400
4| 0 6 6 X 2 3 | 16 | 320
5| 6 2 0 2 X 3 | 12 | 240
6| 0 0 0 3 3 X | 04 | 080
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Anvil of Bogardan / Inkmoth Nexus / Leyline of the Void / Ratchet Bomb
VS:
1) Anachronity :: Rule 605.1b: The Reckoning!
Anurid Scavenger / Black Lotus / Island / Stifle
--Leyline means you can't do anything, and Inkmoth kills you at leisure 6-0
2) CalvinSchwa :: Nihilist Meditation
Balance / Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Quest for the Nihil Stone / Tireless Tribe
--Leyline plus Ratchet Bomb means you can't win, but Balance means you can stop me from winning too 2-2
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Cause its funny.
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Chronatog / Sulfuric Vortex
--Ratchet bomb blows up sulfuric vortex, and that leaves inkmoth to race chronatog 6-0Inkmoth does not actually race chronatog, whoops 0-64) Mogg
Balance / Gustha's Scepter / Void Snare / Voidstone Gargoyle
--Ratchet bomb on 0 will stop you from winning since you won't be able to hide Gargoyle, but you can just Balance anyway to stop me from winning 2-2
6) WhammeWhamme
Balancing Act / Boseiju, Who Shelters All / Duskmantle, House of Shadow / Greater Gargadon
--OTP, you can turn 1 gargadon and turn 2 balancing act, but OTD I can cast turn 1 anvil and inkmoth kills you one turn before gargadon kills me / ratchet bomb blows it up 3-3
X| 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
5| 6 2 0 2 X 3 | 12 | 240
EDIT: I'm also reasonably sure that I go 3-3 against Feyd_Ruin since he can activate Chronatog before combat and/or on my upkeep to avoid mid-combat stifles.
MOAR EDIT: Hrm, wait. That one is actually pretty tricky.
Incidentally, I would like more attention to correctly scoring matches. Last round's scores seem wrong in a number of ways. If people aren't going to score their own darn matches though then it becomes understandably difficult, especially with the math being as tricky as it is for the manaburns.
- Rabid Wombat
One thing is, it seems way more common now as opposed to when I used to play before to not score your deck
Ok, not my best moment. Leylines (except the ones that are banned) have the kind of effect on a game that I tend to forget. I will almost certainly overlook a Leyline of the Void again in the future, but I am trying to be better about it!
You can also return Lotus. Stifle every other turn when it's relevant. You take four (double sulfuric), and Feyd takes five (attack plus sulfuric). Feyd can't afford to attack back because it would leave Chronatog tapped.
Noted - I often don't post my results line, because I know I'm going to get to it eventually anyway when I post the round. I acknowledge it would probably help if I were more consistent in that respect and will therefore be more consistent in future rounds, since more people posting results hopefully encourages others to do the same. That's basically the extent to which I think I can control the scoring. I've responded to this partially above. You and Anachronity share this concern, so it's at least helpful if not in and of itself good to see some through-line on areas of improvement. Beyond what I've said in my response to Anachronity, do you have any further suggestions about ways that I can have an effect here?
It's admittedly not an area I had given much thought until now. When I started playing, full grids were calculated by the moderator, and I think the shift to player responsibility for scores has been gradual but it definitely helps to prevent burnout on the moderator end so I'm in favor of keeping that approach and working with it as required.
Thanks for the comments!
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I'm not really sure what else could be done. I've really enjoyed the special rule weeks we've been having for a while now, and the decline of participants might just be the waxing and waning of people's interest.
Speaking of which, I think my games vs. Feyd_Ruin go like this...
Feyd T1 (20 life): lotus, lotus, chronatog, sulferic vortex; activate Chronatog (doesn't attack)
Me T1 (20 life): take 2 from Vortex (18); lotus, island, scavenger; Feyd activates Chronatog (now he skips his next two turns)
Me T2 (18): Scavenger trigger, Vortex trigger, Stifle Vortex. In response to Stifle, Feyd activates Chronatog, Vortex stifled, I get Stifle back; can't attack through 4/5 chronatog
Me T3 (18): same as last turn, until either I choose to take Vortex damage in order to Stifle Chronatog, or Feyd chooses not to Chronatog twice in a row and take his turn. This standstill ends up hurting the one who breaks it, so in order to not stalemate I would need to break it.
Me T4 (18): upkeep: Scavenger, take 2 from Vortex (16), get Lotus back; play&sac Lotus, Feyd activates Chronatog before combat and I Stifle, then attack for 3 (Feyd at 17, skips next turn)
Me T5 (16): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (14), Feyd activates Chronatog IRT Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back.
Me T6 (14): upkeep: Scavenger, Vortex, Stifle Vortex, Chronatog in response; we're back where we were, except Feyd only has one-turn deficit.
Me T7 (14): same as my T4, 2 from Vortex puts me at (12), Feyd at (14) after attack.
Feyd T2 (14): 2 from Vortex (10), activate Chronatog (I don't have Stifle); don't attack
Me T8 (12): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (10), Chronatog before I get Stifle back
Me T9 (10): Now we really are back where we were on my T3, including Feyd's 2-turn deficit, except we both lost 8 life (me 10, Feyd 12)
(...)
Me T15: I'm at 4, I'll die with Feyd still at 3 if I attack.
Me T1 (20 life): lotus, island, scavenger
Feyd T1 (20 life): lotus, lotus, chronatog, sulferic vortex; activate Chronatog, I Stifle
Me T2 (20): Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (18), Chronatog in response to Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back
Me T3 (18): we're back at T6 from when I'm OTP (stall with 1-turn deficit, but with different life totals)
(...)
Me T6: same at OTP T3 (2-turn deficit stall) except I'm at 14 and Feyd is at 15
(...)
Me T12: 2-turn deficit stall again; I'm at 6 and Feyd is at 7
Me T13 (6): upkeep: Scavenger, take 2 from Vortex (4), get Lotus back; play&sac Lotus, Feyd activates Chronatog before combat and I Stifle, then attack for 3 (Feyd at 4, skips next turn)
Me T14 (4): upkeep: Scavenger, 2 from Vortex (2), Feyd activates Chronatog IRT Scavenger trigger, I get Stifle back.
Me T15 (2): we're at a 1-turn deficit stall; I can't break it or I'll lose to Vortex.
- Rabid Wombat