X Card Cascade
Well this didnt work out. but the points dont really count, so lets see who can eke out a meaningless victory.
All spells gain cascade, and players may cast spells without paying their mana cost.
Players don't draw cards during their draw step. Deck Size: 1 card in your hand, and any number of up to 1000 cards in your library. Land Rule: Basic Land Rule Additional Banned list:Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, and any other spell which disables triggered abilities any other spell that can target a triggered ability on the stack. Also please remember to check the land rule banned list in addition to the regular banned list Commentary
This format seems like a terrible idea. very degenerate, complicated to score, and possible to spend way too much time deckbuilding.
i totally voted for it.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. win the game
ii. take an infinite number of turns
iii. cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds have been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's results against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. A player must choose an opening hand that enables that player to win both games of a match against at least one legal hand, irrespective of rule 7.5a.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchanges hands before the start of each match. A hand must enable the player of that hand to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. Bonus Points.
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
So, I did vote for cascade, because the concept is cool, but I also figured we would be able to refine the "any number" concept, since that makes the format infinitely complex; i.e., there is no cap on the size/configuration of the library.
I propose that we set an upper limit on the number of cards a player can submit for their library.
For example:
"When submitting a hand, each player also chooses up to four cards and specifies an order for those cards. A player can't choose any banned cards.
Each player starts the game with his or her chosen cards in his or her library in his or her specified order.
Spells players cast have cascade.
Any player may play cards without paying their mana cost.
Players skip their draw steps.
Cascade triggers can't be countered and spells can't lose cascade.
I note that many other cards serve a similar function to Mindbreak Trap (Counterflux, Orim's Chant, Silence, Swift Silence, Time Stop, etc.), but locks are a fundamental part of this kind of format that it will not be possible or necessarily desirable to completely remove.
On a side note, I think this format would be more interesting without the bit about playing cards without paying their mana cost - as is, the format is turn one locks. Without, there could be some more nuance.
It feels like the format gets less degenerate if you replace "Players don't draw cards during their draw step" with "Players can't draw cards".
I don't think this solves anything either, since players can still establish loops.
Fundamentally, with a large library, the player who casts the second instant will win, which means every game is a draw.
I propose either:
(1) Reducing the size of the library to a small number (say, ten or few cards - either with a rule "Each player has an emblem with 'Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause cards to leave your library.'" or or letting players choose to choose to use a slot on a card like Emrakul if they're worried about mill) and/or;
(2) Remove the rule "Any player may play cards without paying their mana cost." and add the rule "Players can't cast spells for alternative costs (to prevent Gush, for example, and noting that this also shuts down flashback. (Of course, Anvil of Bogardan and similar fast locks may be too strong)
Edit: Or you could limit the total number of spells that a player is allowed to cast in a game.
Another bit of madness that needs to be sorted out if we're allowed infinite libraries (which I'm in favor of, in general) is what happens when you hit evermind, and cascade for 0? you can't possibly hit a card with cmc less than 0, and then we go through the entire library, and then what? you get a shuffled library? I dunno. I'd propose an alteration to the rules that says that non-land cards you own without the lowest converted mana cost among non-land cards you own have cascade. So you never end up cascading for something that you can't hit with.
If they don't have instant interaction, you flash in notion thief, cast entering, cast sky swallower, cast nevermore, cast Pithing needle, cast evermind. Evermind resolves, drawing you dust bowl. Needle resolves, you name the card in their hand. Nevermore resolves, name the card in their hand, entering resolves, does nothing, Swallower resolves, giving them nevermore and needle. Entering resolves, does nothing. Thief resolves.
They now cannot activate abilities of or cast the card in their hand. They can play a land, however. But the only land that is scary is Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind. So we have a wastelanddust bowl to take care of that.
If they do have instant speed something (mutually exclusive with useful cast triggers), then you wait for them to cast/activate their thing, and you do the thing anyway.
If anyone can find a gap in this, please let me know. It looks like this week, with free casting, will be a lot of 2-2s.
If they don't have instant interaction, you flash in notion thief, cast entering, cast sky swallower, cast nevermore, cast Pithing needle, cast evermind. Evermind resolves, drawing you dust bowl. Needle resolves, you name the card in their hand. Nevermore resolves, name the card in their hand, entering resolves, does nothing, Swallower resolves, giving them nevermore and needle. Entering resolves, does nothing. Thief resolves.
They now cannot activate abilities of or cast the card in their hand. They can play a land, however. But the only land that is scary is Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind. So we have a wastelanddust bowl to take care of that.
If they do have instant speed something (mutually exclusive with useful cast triggers), then you wait for them to cast/activate their thing, and you do the thing anyway.
If anyone can find a gap in this, please let me know. It looks like this week, with free casting, will be a lot of 2-2s.
I did say earlier that everything should be 2-2.
I think there are many ways this can be accomplished - of course, if someone can find a hand that 6-0's against an instant (I don't think it exists), it will likely 6-0 almost everything.
Also, seriously, can we not waste a week on this format if you can stack the deck how you want to? The "must pay mana" version is equally degenerate;
Gut Shot
-> Ancestral Visions
(draw)
Shining Shoal
(expensive white card)
-> comprehensive lock.
Beats or ties with every conceivable deck, since the lock goes into effect in your first turn's upkeep unless you're running Gut Shot (Mental Misstep, etc.) in which case it's a tie as no one ever does anything (since first to act loses).
I think the 'fairest' version of this round would be: Players can't draw cards; 0 cmc spells don't have Cascade; You have to pay to cast spells like normal.
EDIT: Though I guess having to pay for spells would lessen the abusiveness of drawing cards.
Grumsh, the issue with instant speed interaction being a requirement is that everyone has to play at instant speed, but you only get one action per card (cast/cycle/ (channel lol)) so once you try and go for your thing, your opponent, who also is playing at instant speed goes for their thing, and all their stuff resolves first. Then they get the full lock and you lose. So instead, neither player plays, and every match is 2-2.
If you resolve any spell, you're going to win, so it doesn't matter that time stop is legal. If it resolves, you've already won. It could have been anything. even a Treasure Cruise boat.
I do like one card of each CMC, puts a nice little restriction. Not being able to draw cards is also interesting. Combining that with paying mana for casting could "normalize" the format to something metagamable.
Keep offering variations on the rules, people. Every time you do, I have to come up with another variation of my deck so that I'm prepared for whatever we settle on.
Players start with one card in hand, any number of cards in library. All cards with cmc not 0 have cascade. Players can't draw cards. Players can only submit one card of each cmc. Basic Land Rule.
If a player would cascade for a value that would hit no cards in the rest of their deck, their deck becomes stacked in increasing cmc.
Ban list: Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Trickbind (but not void slime).
Just a reminder, breaking//entering has cmc 8.
This admittedly just sets up a similar situation, with an arms race to the bottom. A lot of matchups become 3-3, since you have to wait for your land-drop to go off. But whatever. Hint: Alive // Well might be a good card.
Land Grant.
Cascade into Assault//Battery, cast Battery.
Cast OVER NINE HUNDRED lock pieces to make sure your opponent can't win.
Pretty sure it axiomatically beats everything else in the format on the play (given Mindbreak Trap is banned ), since you have OVER NINE HUNDRED cards to play...
Players start with one card in hand, any number of cards in library. All cards with cmc not 0 have cascade. Players can't draw cards. Players can only submit one card of each cmc. Basic Land Rule.
I'm in support of this.
Also, format suggestion: Bountiful Backbuild.
5CH, DLR, Backbuild rules. How bad can you make your deck when terrible mana bases are off the table?
You play your stuff, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop morph. You swing for 3, I flip, kill the gargoyle, swing for 3. You swing for 1, I swing for 3, etc:
Life totals:
Me : 20 | 16 | 12 | 09 | 08 | 07 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3
You: 20 | 20 | 20 | 17 | 14 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 2 | -1
I win at 3 life on the draw.
You play your stuff, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop morph. You swing for 3, I flip, kill the gargoyle, swing for 3. You swing for 1, I swing for 3, etc:
Life totals:
Me : 20 | 16 | 12 | 09 | 08 | 07 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3
You: 20 | 20 | 20 | 17 | 14 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 2 | -1
I win at 3 life on the draw.
Makes the format at least playable.
Remember he has an elephant off of battery too. You wouldn't have enough removal to finish him off.
Even with land grant gone if we have a basic land rule Skyshroud Cutter is effectively the same card.
What about on the each players first turn only the first spell player's cast has cascade and then all spells have cascade for the rest of the game. Or you can only cast spells without paying their mana cost with cascade.
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X Card Cascade
Well this didnt work out. but the points dont really count, so lets see who can eke out a meaningless victory.
Players don't draw cards during their draw step.
Deck Size: 1 card in your hand, and
any number ofup to 1000 cards in your library.Land Rule: Basic Land Rule
Additional Banned list: Mindbreak Trap, Stifle,
and any other spell which disables triggered abilitiesany other spell that can target a triggered ability on the stack. Also please remember to check the land rule banned list in addition to the regular banned listCommentary
This format seems like a terrible idea. very degenerate, complicated to score, and possible to spend way too much time deckbuilding.
i totally voted for it.
1CavalryWolfPack : distorted
kozilek, the great distortion // 4x Neurok Stealthsuit, 4x Whispersilk Cloak, 4x Gideon Jura, 4x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, 4x Leyline of Sanctity, 4x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, 1x Mox Sapphire
the deck is fine, but lack of instant speed probably hurts.
2HerziQuerzi : Fake_Generosity.dec
Searing Wind / Beacon of Tomorrows / Hour of Reckoning / Chronomantic Escape / Archive Trap / Hunted Troll / Angel's Trumpet / Hunted Horror / Elephant Grass / Mox Emerald
yeah this does stuff
3Mogg : WTC Straight
Time Stop // Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir / Tradewind Rider / Eternal Witness / Lightning Mauler
yup. super powerful.
4nerdyjoe : peaceful protest
Hand: Circling Vultures
Library: Empty
i think this is going to be really good this week
5SeeNamedPerson : psych
Psychic Spiral // Psychic Possesion / Timetwister / Grinding Station / Doomed Traveller / Memnite / Time Stop / Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Darksteel Colossus / Eternal Dominion / Worldfire / Boulderfall / Scour From Existence
yeah i dont know what this does exactly
6tomsloger : my prerogative
dragonlord's prerogative // voidstone gargoyle / leyline of sanctity / nevermore / phyrexian revoker / pithing needle / memnite / world breaker / oblivion sower / last word / time stop / thrun, the last troll / 743 bog hoodlums
oh hey look, i played bog hoodlums
7UkkuhrMakhai : matics
Pyromatics // Commune With Nature|Pact of Negation|Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur|Iona, Shield of Emeria|Platinum Archangel|Painter's Servant|Pithing Needle
a jin gitaxias sighting! sweet.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's results against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. Bonus Points.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Acceleration
Channel
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Pact of Negation
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Barren Glory
Laboratory Maniac
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Vampire Hexmage
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Acceleration
Black Lotus
Disruption
Balancing Act
Energy Field
Time Walk
Win Conditions
Beacon of Creation
Maralen of the Mornsong
Nezumi Shortfang
Red Sun's Zenith
White Sun's Zenith
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I propose that we set an upper limit on the number of cards a player can submit for their library.
For example:
"When submitting a hand, each player also chooses up to four cards and specifies an order for those cards. A player can't choose any banned cards.
Each player starts the game with his or her chosen cards in his or her library in his or her specified order.
Spells players cast have cascade.
Any player may play cards without paying their mana cost.
Players skip their draw steps.
Cascade triggers can't be countered and spells can't lose cascade.
Additional Bans: Mindbreak Trap"
I note that many other cards serve a similar function to Mindbreak Trap (Counterflux, Orim's Chant, Silence, Swift Silence, Time Stop, etc.), but locks are a fundamental part of this kind of format that it will not be possible or necessarily desirable to completely remove.
On a side note, I think this format would be more interesting without the bit about playing cards without paying their mana cost - as is, the format is turn one locks. Without, there could be some more nuance.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I don't think this solves anything either, since players can still establish loops.
Fundamentally, with a large library, the player who casts the second instant will win, which means every game is a draw.
I propose either:
(1) Reducing the size of the library to a small number (say, ten or few cards - either with a rule "Each player has an emblem with 'Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause cards to leave your library.'" or or letting players choose to choose to use a slot on a card like Emrakul if they're worried about mill) and/or;
(2) Remove the rule "Any player may play cards without paying their mana cost." and add the rule "Players can't cast spells for alternative costs (to prevent Gush, for example, and noting that this also shuts down flashback. (Of course, Anvil of Bogardan and similar fast locks may be too strong)
Edit: Or you could limit the total number of spells that a player is allowed to cast in a game.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
no reason to do anything else to make a broken format less broken
i do worry about the cascade for zero. should we make it "all spells with converted mana cost 1 or greater have cascade"?
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All spells gain cascade, and players may cast spells without paying their mana cost.
Here is the optimal deck-list:
In hand: Notion Thief
Breaking // Entering
Sky Swallower
Nevermore
Pithing Needle
Evermind
Dust Bowl
If they don't have instant interaction, you flash in notion thief, cast entering, cast sky swallower, cast nevermore, cast Pithing needle, cast evermind. Evermind resolves, drawing you dust bowl. Needle resolves, you name the card in their hand. Nevermore resolves, name the card in their hand, entering resolves, does nothing, Swallower resolves, giving them nevermore and needle. Entering resolves, does nothing. Thief resolves.
They now cannot activate abilities of or cast the card in their hand. They can play a land, however. But the only land that is scary is Nivix, Aerie of the Firemind. So we have a
wastelanddust bowl to take care of that.If they do have instant speed something (mutually exclusive with useful cast triggers), then you wait for them to cast/activate their thing, and you do the thing anyway.
If anyone can find a gap in this, please let me know. It looks like this week, with free casting, will be a lot of 2-2s.
I did say earlier that everything should be 2-2.
I think there are many ways this can be accomplished - of course, if someone can find a hand that 6-0's against an instant (I don't think it exists), it will likely 6-0 almost everything.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
EDIT: I agree with SeeNamedPerson that you should have to cast your first spell normally.
6CH Substance:
All cards have substance.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Gut Shot
-> Ancestral Visions
(draw)
Shining Shoal
(expensive white card)
-> comprehensive lock.
Beats or ties with every conceivable deck, since the lock goes into effect in your first turn's upkeep unless you're running Gut Shot (Mental Misstep, etc.) in which case it's a tie as no one ever does anything (since first to act loses).
EDIT: Though I guess having to pay for spells would lessen the abusiveness of drawing cards.
Regarding Deck Size... Maybe we say players may only have one card of any given converted mana cost?
Let's address a few of these: Time Stop removes triggered abilities from the stack... so this should not be a legal card.
Saying that "decks without instant speed interaction are going to lose" is a bad arguement... play instants.
Panglacial Wurm does seem silly, but remember that if you shuffle your library you get the worst possible order (from a random event) at the end.
Regarding Panglacial, see bit about one card of each CMC
If you resolve any spell, you're going to win, so it doesn't matter that time stop is legal. If it resolves, you've already won. It could have been anything. even a
Treasure Cruiseboat.I do like one card of each CMC, puts a nice little restriction. Not being able to draw cards is also interesting. Combining that with paying mana for casting could "normalize" the format to something metagamable.
I'm only on five so far. Let's double that.
Players start with one card in hand, any number of cards in library. All cards with cmc not 0 have cascade. Players can't draw cards. Players can only submit one card of each cmc. Basic Land Rule.
If a player would cascade for a value that would hit no cards in the rest of their deck, their deck becomes stacked in increasing cmc.
Ban list: Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Trickbind (but not void slime).
Just a reminder, breaking//entering has cmc 8.
This admittedly just sets up a similar situation, with an arms race to the bottom. A lot of matchups become 3-3, since you have to wait for your land-drop to go off. But whatever. Hint: Alive // Well might be a good card.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/642566-cascade-and-split-cards
Now, banning draw and making people pay mana for their spells DOES seem to remove the brokenness of turn 0 wins. The best I can do is a turn one "play as many spells as you can think of, so long as it doesn't win the game";
Land Grant.
Cascade into Assault//Battery, cast Battery.
Cast OVER NINE HUNDRED lock pieces to make sure your opponent can't win.
Pretty sure it axiomatically beats everything else in the format on the play (given Mindbreak Trap is banned ), since you have OVER NINE HUNDRED cards to play...
The mirror is, of course, a 3-3 draw.
I think the format becomes not (stupid) broken if you're restricted to one card at each cmc.
I'm in support of this.
Also, format suggestion: Bountiful Backbuild.
5CH, DLR, Backbuild rules. How bad can you make your deck when terrible mana bases are off the table?
Land Grant
Assault//Battery
Catch//Release
Voidstone Gargoyle
Memnite
Seriously, feel free to metagame against it. If you can find a deck that does better than 3-3 or 2-2 against it, you deserve the round win.
(If Mindbreak Trap was legal, it would be the better version of the deck)
I.e.
Ire Shaman
Swords to plowshares
Path to exile
You play your stuff, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop. You swing for 4, I land drop morph. You swing for 3, I flip, kill the gargoyle, swing for 3. You swing for 1, I swing for 3, etc:
Life totals:
Me : 20 | 16 | 12 | 09 | 08 | 07 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3
You: 20 | 20 | 20 | 17 | 14 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 2 | -1
I win at 3 life on the draw.
Makes the format at least playable.
I.E.
In the case of a draw or 2-2 result the player with fewer cards in their library wins.
Remember he has an elephant off of battery too. You wouldn't have enough removal to finish him off.
Even with land grant gone if we have a basic land rule Skyshroud Cutter is effectively the same card.
What about on the each players first turn only the first spell player's cast has cascade and then all spells have cascade for the rest of the game. Or you can only cast spells without paying their mana cost with cascade.