I will submit a deck below. You need to beat it. Once someone submits a deck that beats it, you need to submit a deck that beats them both. Once someone submits a deck that beats them both, you need to beat all three... and so on. You need to win on the play and on the draw.
You may not use a card that has already been submitted. (The fastest way to check is to use the "search this thread" tool above).
At the end of the day (Lets say 12AM, EST), the person with the most recent valid submission gets a point.
At the same time, that deck becomes the new, and only, deck to beat. In other words, the 'chain' starts over with their deck being the first that needs to be beaten. However, you still may not submit cards that have been submitted on previous days. You may submit more than once a day, but not in response to yourself.
At the end of each month, we'll start over, perhaps with a new format.
I'll be a lazy mod, and only update the scoreboard occasionally. I can see all the dates, and as long as everyone understands the rules there is no need for me to update daily. That being said, I'll try to do it frequently anyway.
When you submit a deck, you should quote all the decks you're beating.
The format for this tournament will be 2CB with a standard (that is, Extended) land rule. No bannings are necessary because they should (hopefully) just work themselves out on the first or second day. There are no counter or discard rules. Just pick two cards! If someone messes up and submits a card that has already been submitted, that deck is invalid, but the decks that beat it are not (since they have to beat all the decks the invalid deck did!). Again, the most recent valid deck at the end of the day will win the point. (valid = beats all above it for the day, uses all new cards).
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Ok, well, we've got 76 views, so I'm going to kick it off. The first point will be awarded Saturday night (or, Sunday, 12AM EST). I'm giving it the extra 11 hours just so more people can see.
Hmm.. should I start with something really easy? Nah.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Questions:
1. When do new cards become legal for play? (For instance, I was considering using Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts in this deck.)
2. I assume we're still using the rule that random effects always produce the worst possible result for the player that brought the effect to the game? (This is highly relevant with respect to Burning Inquiry might be relevant at some point.)
EDIT: I'm having trouble remembering that we're NOT using the land rule that replaces draws from an empty deck. Burning Inquiry can do its thing, but, say, Odds might be less useful.
I happened to check back at about 11:55, but five minutes was not enough time to come up with something that beats that entire field. tomsloger gets the point for Friday.
EDIT: Missed the "first point will be awarded Saturday" part of the second post somehow. The first day is still going on.
I happened to check back at about 11:55, but five minutes was not enough time to come up with something that beats that entire field. tomsloger gets the point for Friday.
second post says we're going til saturday night at midnight. y'all still have 21.5 hours to beat me.
Mogg, I think your deck can only tie Student/Smiter on the draw.
T1: Student
T1:
T2: Student(2), attack to 17
T2:
T3: Smiter, attack to 14
T3: Oblivion Ring. Has to take Student or you'll die by T6.
T4: attack to 10
T4:
T5: attack to 6
T5:
T6: attack to 2
T6: stabilize with Dread, but you need it as a blocker.
Questions:
1. When do new cards become legal for play? (For instance, I was considering using Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts in this deck.)
2. I assume we're still using the rule that random effects always produce the worst possible result for the player that brought the effect to the game? (This is highly relevant with respect to Burning Inquiry might be relevant at some point.)
EDIT: I'm having trouble remembering that we're NOT using the land rule that replaces draws from an empty deck. Burning Inquiry can do its thing, but, say, Odds might be less useful.
1. To make things interesting... the cards are legal as soon as they are spoiled and confirmed. The entire set does not need to be spoiled. Using a card which is later proven to be fake will invalidate your deck. (Do I expect this to keep rolling until the next set comes out? Who knows!)
2. Yes
In response to your edit: I came in around the time when HeartOfDraco started a 2CB tournament. It ran for a few months - I'm just using his land rule (I assumed it was the standard, but I could be wrong!).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
In response to your edit: I came in around the time when HeartOfDraco started a 2CB tournament. It ran for a few months - I'm just using his land rule (I assumed it was the standard, but I could be wrong!).
I'm pretty sure the "Standard Land Rule" (at least as given in the rule for the ABT that's currently running around here) is "A player may play a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could play a land normally."
I've been confusing myself about it because the first XCB-with-land-rule I played used the rule that "If a player would draw a card from an empty library, instead that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice into his or her hand from outside the game." So I keep thinking in terms of that rule, even though I know that this tournament is using a different rule.
On another note ... hurry up, everyone, only about 100 minutes left to beat me!
I wonder if there's a way to prove that a set is unbeatable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I wonder if there's a way to prove that a set is unbeatable.
In theory, sure. In practice ... I think there are just too many cards in Magic with too many different effects. You never know, for example, when a seemingly innocuous card from one set might combine with a seemingly innocuous card from an older set to let you mill your opponent's entire deck on your third turn. That particular combo obviously isn't relevant to XCB, but other obscure combos are. For practical purposes, I suspect that proving a set of decks can't be beaten now would be nearly as hard as proving that that set of decks will be unbeatable a year from now.
Maybe we don't need to do a proof by cases? Here's what I was thinking:
We can define qualities the next deck needs based on the already submitted decks:
From the deck with thoughtseize:
- The next deck needs to be able to win even if it discards a non-land card, or otherwise needs to be able to win if it uses both cards before the opponent's first main phase.
From the deck with meddling mage:
- The deck needs to be able to win even if it can't cast one of it's spells, or if it casts both cards before the opponent's main phase on their second turn, OR it must contain removal to deal with meddling mage.
From the deck with Chancellor of the Annex:
- The deck must not require playing it's first spell on the turn equal to it's converted mana cost in order to win.
(These aren't sufficient requirements for beating the decks above, but they are necessary requirements. I.e, even more is required to beat the decks, but if a deck can't satisfy these requirements it can't win.)
With enough of those requirements... perhaps it's possible to whittle down the field of possible card choices to nothing?
Based on the first requirement, a deck can't contain a single threat without some kind of recursion. Based on the second, it can't contain a single threat without some kind of removal. So now we need a deck with either two threats, or a deck with a card that is both recursion and removal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Maybe we don't need to do a proof by cases? Here's what I was thinking:
We can define qualities the next deck needs based on the already submitted decks:
From the deck with thoughtseize:
- The next deck needs to be able to win even if it discards a non-land card, or otherwise needs to be able to win if it uses both cards before the opponent's first main phase.
From the deck with meddling mage:
- The deck needs to be able to win even if it can't cast one of it's spells, or if it casts both cards before the opponent's main phase on their second turn, OR it must contain removal to deal with meddling mage.
From the deck with Chancellor of the Annex:
- The deck must not require playing it's first spell on the turn equal to it's converted mana cost in order to win.
(These aren't sufficient requirements for beating the decks above, but they are necessary requirements. I.e, even more is required to beat the decks, but if a deck can't satisfy these requirements it can't win.)
With enough of those requirements... perhaps it's possible to whittle down the field of possible card choices to nothing?
Based on the first requirement, a deck can't contain a single threat without some kind of recursion. Based on the second, it can't contain a single threat without some kind of removal. So now we need a deck with either two threats, or a deck with a card that is both recursion and removal.
Ah, but we don't actually need recursion to protect against Thoughtseize. We could include Leyline of Sanctity, so they can't target us. Or play a manland as our win condition, since Thoughtseize can't hit lands. Or we could use Metrognome, which doesn't exactly qualify as recursion but which is still useful against discard. I don't think any of those can actually be built into something that will beat all the other decks, but the point is that there are a ton of different ways around any given threat or answer, and I doubt we'll be able to be sure we've properly accounted for all of them.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
You may not use a card that has already been submitted. (The fastest way to check is to use the "search this thread" tool above).
At the end of the day (Lets say 12AM, EST), the person with the most recent valid submission gets a point.
At the same time, that deck becomes the new, and only, deck to beat. In other words, the 'chain' starts over with their deck being the first that needs to be beaten. However, you still may not submit cards that have been submitted on previous days. You may submit more than once a day, but not in response to yourself.
At the end of each month, we'll start over, perhaps with a new format.
I'll be a lazy mod, and only update the scoreboard occasionally. I can see all the dates, and as long as everyone understands the rules there is no need for me to update daily. That being said, I'll try to do it frequently anyway.
When you submit a deck, you should quote all the decks you're beating.
Here's a sample:
1 card stud with land rule:
---------
benbuzz submits Meddling mage
---------
Feyd_ruin submits Stromkirk Noble
---------
No one else submits by 12AM, Feyd_ruin gets a point. His deck is the deck to beat.
---------
Draco9 submits Vraska, the unseen
---------
Fnord submits Mayor of Avabruck
--------
No one beats Fnord by 12AM, so he gets a point.
Any questions before we start?
The Scoreboard
WhammeWhamme: 1
VikingMetal4L: 3
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Hmm.. should I start with something really easy? Nah.
Burning Inquiry / Bloodghast
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Force of Will / Misthollow Griffin
No longer staff here.
Blazing Archon / Unburial Rites
Questions:
1. When do new cards become legal for play? (For instance, I was considering using Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts in this deck.)
2. I assume we're still using the rule that random effects always produce the worst possible result for the player that brought the effect to the game? (This
is highly relevant with respect to Burning Inquirymight be relevant at some point.)EDIT: I'm having trouble remembering that we're NOT using the land rule that replaces draws from an empty deck. Burning Inquiry can do its thing, but, say, Odds might be less useful.
Force of Will / Misthollow Griffin
Blazing Archon / Unburial Rites
...lose to:
Chronosavant / Take Possession
reach of branches / planeswalker's fury
tomsloger gets the point for Friday.EDIT: Missed the "first point will be awarded Saturday" part of the second post somehow. The first day is still going on.
second post says we're going til saturday night at midnight. y'all still have 21.5 hours to beat me.
no points yet
Student of Warfare / Loxodon Smiter
Whoops, you're right. In that case ...
Laboratory Maniac / Obstinate Baloth
Here's one that actually works:
Dread / Oblivion RingEdit: No, it doesn't.List of Decks:
Burning Inquiry / Bloodghast
Force of Will / Misthollow Griffin
Blazing Archon / Unburial Rites
Chronosavant / Take Possession
Reach of Branches / Planeswalker's Fury
Student of Warfare / Loxodon Smiter
Laboratory Maniac / Obstinate Baloth
Also, is there any way to quote a quote in another post?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
T1: Student
T1:
T2: Student(2), attack to 17
T2:
T3: Smiter, attack to 14
T3: Oblivion Ring. Has to take Student or you'll die by T6.
T4: attack to 10
T4:
T5: attack to 6
T5:
T6: attack to 2
T6: stabilize with Dread, but you need it as a blocker.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
1. To make things interesting... the cards are legal as soon as they are spoiled and confirmed. The entire set does not need to be spoiled. Using a card which is later proven to be fake will invalidate your deck. (Do I expect this to keep rolling until the next set comes out? Who knows!)
2. Yes
In response to your edit: I came in around the time when HeartOfDraco started a 2CB tournament. It ran for a few months - I'm just using his land rule (I assumed it was the standard, but I could be wrong!).
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I'm pretty sure the "Standard Land Rule" (at least as given in the rule for the ABT that's currently running around here) is "A player may play a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could play a land normally."
I've been confusing myself about it because the first XCB-with-land-rule I played used the rule that "If a player would draw a card from an empty library, instead that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice into his or her hand from outside the game." So I keep thinking in terms of that rule, even though I know that this tournament is using a different rule.
On another note ... hurry up, everyone, only about 100 minutes left to beat me!
Channel / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
?
Yep, I'm pretty sure you've got this one.
New day!
beats the following:
-Channel / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Today's list
Appetite for Brains / Chancellor of the Annex
Today's list
Channel / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Appetite for Brains / Chancellor of the Annex
Meddling Mage / Duress[/QUOTE]
Figure of Destiny / Thoughtseize
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
In theory, sure. In practice ... I think there are just too many cards in Magic with too many different effects. You never know, for example, when a seemingly innocuous card from one set might combine with a seemingly innocuous card from an older set to let you mill your opponent's entire deck on your third turn. That particular combo obviously isn't relevant to XCB, but other obscure combos are. For practical purposes, I suspect that proving a set of decks can't be beaten now would be nearly as hard as proving that that set of decks will be unbeatable a year from now.
We can define qualities the next deck needs based on the already submitted decks:
From the deck with thoughtseize:
- The next deck needs to be able to win even if it discards a non-land card, or otherwise needs to be able to win if it uses both cards before the opponent's first main phase.
From the deck with meddling mage:
- The deck needs to be able to win even if it can't cast one of it's spells, or if it casts both cards before the opponent's main phase on their second turn, OR it must contain removal to deal with meddling mage.
From the deck with Chancellor of the Annex:
- The deck must not require playing it's first spell on the turn equal to it's converted mana cost in order to win.
(These aren't sufficient requirements for beating the decks above, but they are necessary requirements. I.e, even more is required to beat the decks, but if a deck can't satisfy these requirements it can't win.)
With enough of those requirements... perhaps it's possible to whittle down the field of possible card choices to nothing?
Based on the first requirement, a deck can't contain a single threat without some kind of recursion. Based on the second, it can't contain a single threat without some kind of removal. So now we need a deck with either two threats, or a deck with a card that is both recursion and removal.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Ah, but we don't actually need recursion to protect against Thoughtseize. We could include Leyline of Sanctity, so they can't target us. Or play a manland as our win condition, since Thoughtseize can't hit lands. Or we could use Metrognome, which doesn't exactly qualify as recursion but which is still useful against discard. I don't think any of those can actually be built into something that will beat all the other decks, but the point is that there are a ton of different ways around any given threat or answer, and I doubt we'll be able to be sure we've properly accounted for all of them.
today is a new day
Blazing Archon - Bloodghast - Burning Inquiry - Chronosavant - Force of Will- Laboratory Maniac -Loxodon Smiter - Misthollow Griffin - Obstinate Baloth - Planeswalker's Fury - Reach of Branches - Student of Warfare - Take Possession - Unburial Rites - Channel - Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - Appetite for Brains - Chancellor of the Annex - Meddling Mage - Duress
deck to beat: Figure of Destiny / Thoughtseize
new submission: red sun's zenith / eternal witness
Leyline of Sanctity / Vraska, the unseen
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic