I think the problem here is the dialogue being written and the direction for characters rather than just the capability of the actors. Olliver in particular is a bit of a thankless role because the character is stoic and gruff as the vigilante and stoic and apathetic as the public face, Amell himself is quite charismatic and funny but very little of that shows through so all he gets to work with is hamfisted dialogue.
It's getting better now that Oliver is opening up to more people. He plays the deadpan well.
The only character/actor combo I'd consider a real disappointment is Laurel/Katie Cassidy. Cassidy is actually a really great actress but Laurel is written horribly and the actress isn't able to save it. It reminds me a lot of Lana Lang from Smallville.
And like Lana, the writers don't seem to know what to do with her. This substance abuse subplot seems to be just to give her something to do. She can't even be the Black Canary, because, y'know, that's someone else. Sort of wonder what they were thinking there.
And like Lana, the writers don't seem to know what to do with her. This substance abuse subplot seems to be just to give her something to do. She can't even be the Black Canary, because, y'know, that's someone else. Sort of wonder what they were thinking there.
She'll most likely inherit the Black Canary job from her sister. She got fired from her lawyer job, she is at a pretty bad place, the last episode and last scene has her sister dropping in a for a surprise visit.
I kind of wish there was more for diggle to do than occasionally call ollie on his BS
Particularly now that Felicity is taking over that role in a much more dynamic way. And Roy is taking over the role of the ally with rage issues that Diggle gets from time to time with his dead brother backstory.
Honestly, after Laurel, Diggle needs the most attention from the writers.
It's getting better now that Oliver is opening up to more people. He plays the deadpan well.
"Trust that instinct."
I loled.
His scenes with both Felicity and Thea allow him the best range, but I'm looking forward to Olliver's personality widening a bit. Particularly as his inner circle fills with bigger personalities.
And like Lana, the writers don't seem to know what to do with her. This substance abuse subplot seems to be just to give her something to do. She can't even be the Black Canary, because, y'know, that's someone else. Sort of wonder what they were thinking there.
I don't think it's likely that Sara 2.0 will survive the season. At best, she's got until sweeps next year before she dies tragically to set Laurel off into a new character arc. The only question is how Laurel will transition into the Black Canary in terms of training and still remain in the Starling City stories. If they were smart, they'd make her and Olliver adversaries who don't know each other's real identities to ramp up tension. She doesn't need to be a villain, just a hero with a different moral code and set of priorities than Olliver.
She doesn't need to be a villain, just a hero with a different moral code and set of priorities than Olliver.
Mhmm,
Laurel was at least fun to watch when she was trying to catch Oli. She was interacting with the main plot and the idea that your ex-lover that still has feelings for you is leading the charge against you without knowing it is a nice, and very CW, bit of drama
I kind of wish there was more for diggle to do than occasionally call ollie on his BS
And yet, he's got enough personality not to feel "token black". (Contrast White Collar - good show, but Agent Jones' presence on it is sometimes painful.) I think it helps, as well, that his relationship with Oliver is unique enough to be interesting in its own right. He follows Oliver's lead, but he's sure as hell not a subordinate. He serves as confidant, but he's too removed in age and lifestyle to be a peer or a "friend" in the standard sense. And he speaks with the voice of life experience, but he's never vigilanted before and isn't really a mentor. He's certainly not the father figure one might expect Oliver would be looking for after his loss; he's more like an uncle or older cousin.
Kind of weird this week how Diggle was the one to track down Laurel's medical records, though. That seems like solid Felicity territory.
EDIT: Oh, duh. He's the senior NCO to Oliver's junior officer. But with license to backtalk directly.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
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Is jones painful? Plus he can't be the token black character because of Diana
You are absolute right about just how complex and well made of a character Diggle is. Its what makes his lack of things to do that much more frustrating!
Oh, and incidentally when you replied to Assassinninja4827 I was almost hoping for a sarcastic-ish reply to him saying I made good point and was read worthy after you responded to everything else he said
Just started watching the second season (I'm about 3 episodes in) after watching the whole first season last year. So forgive me for not being up on the more current episodes. The show seems to have held up well. The island stuff is always pretty well done and the way they integrate it with the regular story is part of what makes the show different and interesting IMHO.
Something weird happened with Laurel between seasons, they really glammed her up or something, she seems to have a lot more makeup and hair, slinkier wardrobe, and is showing more cleavage than in season one along with the new job. Personally not a fan of the changes but I'm not sure they know what to do with her character anyways now that the Tommy/Oliver tension is gone. I still hate Felicity. Other characters seem to still be good and/or improved. Diggle and Moira are still awesome, Thea seems to have matured and is less whiny which is great, and I really like Laurel's dad too when he's not foaming at the mouth although I do like the character more as a detective than a beat cop.
You may be the only person in the known universe who does
Well if she gets better that's good. But as of right now she's not a great character IMHO, she's the self-insertion fanfic character. Moira and Thea are far more well-rounded as characters go than Felicity has been thus far in the series.
Edit: I should clarify, I don't hate the actress or the tone of the character necessarily. It's also possible that my perception is partially tainted by the show's overuse of "computers are magic!" which she is heavily involved in. I mostly object to her awkward sexual innuendos (which I just find groan-inducing instead of funny or cute) and her role as the shows "designated smart person" (ie anything that is vaguely science-y or tech-y she is an expert in). I suppose I also have trouble believing that anyone with that combination of smarts and good looks could be so socially awkward and have no friends. She should be having to constantly fight off suitors with a bazooka, and she should have at least a couple of work-friends in a building that large. Yet somehow she is this shy flower that nobody pays attention to and has no friends. What? It's like if Stephen Amell played a friendless nerd on Big Bang Theory, something just doesn't quite fit.
I dont have anything wrong with Felicity, i find she plays the role pretty well.
@Jay, thanks for the info i was confused by her name. Its also weird seeing all these Spartacus actors in this show, especially when one looks like big boss.
You may be the only person in the known universe who does
Well if she gets better that's good. But as of right now she's not a great character IMHO, she's the self-insertion fanfic character. Moira and Thea are far more well-rounded as characters go than Felicity has been thus far in the series.
Edit: I should clarify, I don't hate the actress or the tone of the character necessarily. It's also possible that my perception is partially tainted by the show's overuse of "computers are magic!" which she is heavily involved in. I mostly object to her awkward sexual innuendos (which I just find groan-inducing instead of funny or cute) and her role as the shows "designated smart person" (ie anything that is vaguely science-y or tech-y she is an expert in). I suppose I also have trouble believing that anyone with that combination of smarts and good looks could be so socially awkward and have no friends. She should be having to constantly fight off suitors with a bazooka, and she should have at least a couple of work-friends in a building that large. Yet somehow she is this shy flower that nobody pays attention to and has no friends. What? It's like if Stephen Amell played a friendless nerd on Big Bang Theory, something just doesn't quite fit.
I think what they're subtly building towards is that Felicity has become so involved with Oliver's life that her own has suffered. I don't think that they're trying to make it seem like she's that socially awkward or has no friends. My read is that she's only really awkward around Oliver himself because of abs and her crush on them. I've never taken her interactions with other characters as being overly awkward, more nervousness and being unsure of her place than actual lack of social skills. On the contrary, we've seen her be resolute, assertive and confident at times.
I think the reason we don't see her with friends or other suitors is because she's been removed from that part of her life. She likely had friends in her old job, or at least close colleagues, but when Oliver 'promoted' her to his secretary she was pulled from that and her constant involvement in the Hood's operations is probably killing what little social life she could or did have.
I agree that she is fairly fanfic self-insertion material through the end of season one and into the beginning of season two, but really only as far as her crush on Oliver, which has gotten less heavy-handed as season two progresses. But the Felicity/Oliver relationship is the most popular on the show and Felicity is by far the most popular female character on the show, which I think caught the writers off guard. So they fell back on tired tropes because they didn't know how to handle a one-off secondary character who by sheer charisma and popularity became the defacto romantic lead of the show. But as the writers have found Felicity's voice, the character as a whole has become more organic and imo much greater. I've always enjoyed her, but now she's much more rounded and dynamic and her presence improves scenes rather than distracts.
On the whole "Gotham" note, given that Gotham and Arrow are set in separate time periods (Gotham is set in Bruce Wayne's childhood), it seems unlikely that we would have actual crossover events but... do we konw if DC is creating a "shared universe" type situation where DCTV is one universe similar to Marvel movies?
On the whole "Gotham" note, given that Gotham and Arrow are set in separate time periods (Gotham is set in Bruce Wayne's childhood), it seems unlikely that we would have actual crossover events but... do we konw if DC is creating a "shared universe" type situation where DCTV is one universe similar to Marvel movies?
True, but we are seeing quite a bit of crossover in characters right now. I like where this show is heading right now a lot of tension is building towards a "boss battle"
I guess my question is more of, can we expect the two shows to be the same universe rather than just drawing form the same pool of characters. Obviously if Green Arrow showed up in Gotham something would be wonky, since Gotham takes place something like 20 or 30 years before Arrow. But, if it's the same universe we can expect story related crossovers. (I.E. evil company X is doing something in Gotham, and escapes in the end, only to have an implication 20 years later in the events of Arrow).
On the whole "Gotham" note, given that Gotham and Arrow are set in separate time periods (Gotham is set in Bruce Wayne's childhood), it seems unlikely that we would have actual crossover events but... do we konw if DC is creating a "shared universe" type situation where DCTV is one universe similar to Marvel movies?
It's plausible. We know the Flash show will be in the same universe, of course. When there was buzz about a Booster Gold show, I think that was supposed to be in the same universe as Arrow as well. (Not sure what happened to that one.) And the recent Suicide Squad episode almost smelled like a backdoor pilot, or at least like they were testing the waters.
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I guess my question is more of, can we expect the two shows to be the same universe rather than just drawing form the same pool of characters. Obviously if Green Arrow showed up in Gotham something would be wonky, since Gotham takes place something like 20 or 30 years before Arrow. But, if it's the same universe we can expect story related crossovers. (I.E. evil company X is doing something in Gotham, and escapes in the end, only to have an implication 20 years later in the events of Arrow).
Based on what the show has done so far, I would say yes.
Harley Quinn makes a brief, unnamed cameo in an ARGUS cell.
It's getting better now that Oliver is opening up to more people. He plays the deadpan well.
"Trust that instinct."
I loled.
And like Lana, the writers don't seem to know what to do with her. This substance abuse subplot seems to be just to give her something to do. She can't even be the Black Canary, because, y'know, that's someone else. Sort of wonder what they were thinking there.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
She'll most likely inherit the Black Canary job from her sister. She got fired from her lawyer job, she is at a pretty bad place, the last episode and last scene has her sister dropping in a for a surprise visit.
Particularly now that Felicity is taking over that role in a much more dynamic way. And Roy is taking over the role of the ally with rage issues that Diggle gets from time to time with his dead brother backstory.
Honestly, after Laurel, Diggle needs the most attention from the writers.
His scenes with both Felicity and Thea allow him the best range, but I'm looking forward to Olliver's personality widening a bit. Particularly as his inner circle fills with bigger personalities.
I don't think it's likely that Sara 2.0 will survive the season. At best, she's got until sweeps next year before she dies tragically to set Laurel off into a new character arc. The only question is how Laurel will transition into the Black Canary in terms of training and still remain in the Starling City stories. If they were smart, they'd make her and Olliver adversaries who don't know each other's real identities to ramp up tension. She doesn't need to be a villain, just a hero with a different moral code and set of priorities than Olliver.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Mhmm,
Laurel was at least fun to watch when she was trying to catch Oli. She was interacting with the main plot and the idea that your ex-lover that still has feelings for you is leading the charge against you without knowing it is a nice, and very CW, bit of drama
And yet, he's got enough personality not to feel "token black". (Contrast White Collar - good show, but Agent Jones' presence on it is sometimes painful.) I think it helps, as well, that his relationship with Oliver is unique enough to be interesting in its own right. He follows Oliver's lead, but he's sure as hell not a subordinate. He serves as confidant, but he's too removed in age and lifestyle to be a peer or a "friend" in the standard sense. And he speaks with the voice of life experience, but he's never vigilanted before and isn't really a mentor. He's certainly not the father figure one might expect Oliver would be looking for after his loss; he's more like an uncle or older cousin.
Kind of weird this week how Diggle was the one to track down Laurel's medical records, though. That seems like solid Felicity territory.
EDIT: Oh, duh. He's the senior NCO to Oliver's junior officer. But with license to backtalk directly.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
You are absolute right about just how complex and well made of a character Diggle is. Its what makes his lack of things to do that much more frustrating!
Oh, and incidentally when you replied to Assassinninja4827 I was almost hoping for a sarcastic-ish reply to him saying I made good point and was read worthy after you responded to everything else he said
Something weird happened with Laurel between seasons, they really glammed her up or something, she seems to have a lot more makeup and hair, slinkier wardrobe, and is showing more cleavage than in season one along with the new job. Personally not a fan of the changes but I'm not sure they know what to do with her character anyways now that the Tommy/Oliver tension is gone. I still hate Felicity. Other characters seem to still be good and/or improved. Diggle and Moira are still awesome, Thea seems to have matured and is less whiny which is great, and I really like Laurel's dad too when he's not foaming at the mouth although I do like the character more as a detective than a beat cop.
Are you talking about Nyssa?
You may be the only person in the known universe who does
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Well if she gets better that's good. But as of right now she's not a great character IMHO, she's the self-insertion fanfic character. Moira and Thea are far more well-rounded as characters go than Felicity has been thus far in the series.
Edit: I should clarify, I don't hate the actress or the tone of the character necessarily. It's also possible that my perception is partially tainted by the show's overuse of "computers are magic!" which she is heavily involved in. I mostly object to her awkward sexual innuendos (which I just find groan-inducing instead of funny or cute) and her role as the shows "designated smart person" (ie anything that is vaguely science-y or tech-y she is an expert in). I suppose I also have trouble believing that anyone with that combination of smarts and good looks could be so socially awkward and have no friends. She should be having to constantly fight off suitors with a bazooka, and she should have at least a couple of work-friends in a building that large. Yet somehow she is this shy flower that nobody pays attention to and has no friends. What? It's like if Stephen Amell played a friendless nerd on Big Bang Theory, something just doesn't quite fit.
@Jay, thanks for the info i was confused by her name. Its also weird seeing all these Spartacus actors in this show, especially when one looks like big boss.
I think what they're subtly building towards is that Felicity has become so involved with Oliver's life that her own has suffered. I don't think that they're trying to make it seem like she's that socially awkward or has no friends. My read is that she's only really awkward around Oliver himself because of abs and her crush on them. I've never taken her interactions with other characters as being overly awkward, more nervousness and being unsure of her place than actual lack of social skills. On the contrary, we've seen her be resolute, assertive and confident at times.
I think the reason we don't see her with friends or other suitors is because she's been removed from that part of her life. She likely had friends in her old job, or at least close colleagues, but when Oliver 'promoted' her to his secretary she was pulled from that and her constant involvement in the Hood's operations is probably killing what little social life she could or did have.
I agree that she is fairly fanfic self-insertion material through the end of season one and into the beginning of season two, but really only as far as her crush on Oliver, which has gotten less heavy-handed as season two progresses. But the Felicity/Oliver relationship is the most popular on the show and Felicity is by far the most popular female character on the show, which I think caught the writers off guard. So they fell back on tired tropes because they didn't know how to handle a one-off secondary character who by sheer charisma and popularity became the defacto romantic lead of the show. But as the writers have found Felicity's voice, the character as a whole has become more organic and imo much greater. I've always enjoyed her, but now she's much more rounded and dynamic and her presence improves scenes rather than distracts.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The sheer volume of Felicity/Oliver fanfic my wife has consumed since starting this show would agree
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Screw the rest of the Suicide Squad; the writers know who we really want.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
YES! Oh man i couldnt believe that. I really hope thats who i think that is.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I do not recognize any of those names lol. I saw a single pic from last week and i thought it may have been who we are talking about.
The latest episode was pretty good as well. A bit boring at times but pretty good.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
True, but we are seeing quite a bit of crossover in characters right now. I like where this show is heading right now a lot of tension is building towards a "boss battle"
It's plausible. We know the Flash show will be in the same universe, of course. When there was buzz about a Booster Gold show, I think that was supposed to be in the same universe as Arrow as well. (Not sure what happened to that one.) And the recent Suicide Squad episode almost smelled like a backdoor pilot, or at least like they were testing the waters.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Based on what the show has done so far, I would say yes.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath