Outdated compared to D2? Go do a screenshot comparison man, its not pretty.
Diablo is here. Bad **** is happening. You, HERO, go kill **** until FOREVER.
just because the graphics are an update to diablo 2 doesnt mean the graphics aren't outdated. go compare diablo 3 to any other game that has been released recently. look at Guild Wars 2 and compare them to Diablo 3. Look at Terra Online and compare them to Diablo 3.
And actually, there is a bigger story to the game than that. here, watch this video series and you'll understand.
Though again I am not against d3 it just is not a diablo game as 3 hardcore fans in this thread have already said.
If you're referring to me here, I'm nowhere close to a hardcore player.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Rath-maker , Believeinapathy, ulfsaar and myself all came to conclusion it doesnt feel like diablo so clearly there is something there and it's a valid opinion no matter how much you argue otherwise forar.
Hey, if you and a couple of other people feel Diablo 3 isn't Diablo, that's your prerogative.
Stating it like it's a fact is where I'm happy to commit Big Block of Text atrocities. I have no delusions you'll ever change your opinion, but plenty of people who aren't aware of all the facts are whom I'm more interested in providing information for.
And insinuations that you perused the later content while it was commonplace (or however you viewed further), unless you're a Blizzard employee, I have sincere doubts you've got much more experience in game than anyone else.
Comments (from others) about being locked into limited skills and lacklustre drops (among other things) is heavily ignoring that this is the first third of the first act (of four) of the first difficulty (of four). Was Normal D2 really all that impressive up to the Countess? Was having a single point in 3 or 4 skills really so much variety? Were all those cracked sashes really so awe inspiring?
You've built yourself a nice little backdoor in that 'oh it'll totally be fun and millions of people will play it, but it's not Diablo', and I'm calling shenanigans.
You still haven't explained what was superior about Diablo 2. Merely pooped on things you apparently don't like about Diablo 3. As was asked above, a bulleted list would be a start.
this dude gets it, 100%. D3 could of looked likie Lineage Eternal, but instead it looks like an eagle eye view of WoW
EDIT : did you know that they took demon heads and pentagrams out of the game? yeah...true story
Open Beta had two cases of pentagrams and one of the typical demons head (of which the latter is a splash screen on boot)
And making graphics topend only alienates potential buyers - far more people have 4350s and other poor video cards that would choke on better graphics. Keeping them low (and still looking superb on Max and 1080p) enough for those machines is millions of dollars in the bank.
Going overboard with graphics leads to the failures of games like EQ2, HG:L, and Vanguard.
Blizzard has been known to make games with graphics requirements that most computers can satisfy... this is pretty common knowledge, right?
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
@Rathmaker, out of curiosity, what would make D3 "more diablo like"?
Go boot up Diablo 2, play for a few hours. Then boot up the beta, play for a few hours. These games have such little relation with one another it's astounding. Another user mentioned this, but the combat seems to have been slowed down. Battles were a crazed and all over the place. There was so much going on at once on screen with enemies running all over the place spamming special attacks etc etc. It was overwhelming, but in such a way where it was so gratifying playing the game that it MADE the game. Playing through the beta I got bored fighting mobs, and that should NEVER happen because I can go boot up D2 right now and will not stop playing until I need to. The game is THAT good.
The argument I have a problem with the one where people defend the new skill system because "If you messed up your character, it was too bad for you." Well guys, sorry to break it to ya, but that was the point. The game didn't just intervene and say "Hey, looks like your bad at picking good skills, let me just do this for you" like d3 is doing. It adds a level of skill that was neccesary to get to Hell difficulties. Sure, if you built a bad character then you couldn't beat hell mode, but then at that point you didn't DESERVE to beat hell mode. The system rewarded those who had well-built skill trees and had well thought out characters.
Now with these "Auto-level" characters, everybody and their brother will be able to have the "perfect build" without any thought what-so-ever. This takes away from the game because it removes a level of intricacy where you were able to create "basically" anything you wanted, where as now you are made into the character shell that everyone is. Nobody is "specialized" in say, Summoning or Bone and poison, everyone just has everything now.
I just don't get the x factor d2 had. It doesnt feel nearly the same. Again, I really. really. really. Hope were wrong. I want this game to be good so badly. Maybe the game starts kicking ass after act 1 and picks up the pace. Maybe the armor sets are ridiculously cool. Maybe higher difficulties are actually challenging. We don't KNOW until the game drops. And I pre-ordered this 5 years ago, it's too late to go back now.
Blizzard has been known to make games with graphics requirements that most computers can satisfy... this is pretty common knowledge, right?
Hell, you used to be able to run WoW on a toaster.
Granted, a few expansions later and while some sections of the engine really began to show their age, and you could crank some things up to give even modern cards a bit of a run for their money, but yeah, Blizzard has pretty much always used an art design that allowed for it to be scale able across a variety of hardware.
Just blew through the beta again on a Wizard to get my fix before things shut down next week (speaking of which, FYI anyone in the beta; it closes down on May 1st), and blowing up skeletons, barrels, picking up gold (but not having to click on it: progress!) and throwing away piles of garbage while hunting for elusive magic and rare upgrades all felt pretty Diablo'y to me.
Then again, I did use 3 skills that all scaled up with me as I progressed and picked up better gear. Epic fail Blizzard 11/10 pre-order cancelled.
Go boot up Diablo 2, play for a few hours. Then boot up the beta, play for a few hours.
These games have such little relation with one another it's astounding. Another user mentioned this, but the combat seems to have been slowed down. Battles were a crazed and all over the place. There was so much going on at once on screen with enemies running all over the place spamming special attacks etc etc. It was overwhelming, but in such a way where it was so gratifying playing the game that it MADE the game. Playing through the beta I got bored fighting mobs, and that should NEVER happen because I can go boot up D2 right now and will not stop playing until I need to. The game is THAT good.
I just don't get the x factor d2 had. It doesnt feel nearly the same. Again, I really. really. really. Hope were wrong. I want this game to be good so badly. Maybe the game starts kicking ass after act 1 and picks up the pace. Maybe the armor sets are ridiculously cool. Maybe higher difficulties are actually challenging. We don't KNOW until the game drops. And I pre-ordered this 5 years ago, it's too late to go back now.
Blizzard has stated that things get more hectic (larger groups of enemies, nastier abilities, etc) in later acts and difficulties.
I must assume you're comparing Nightmare and Hell of D2 to the tutorial period of D3. The developers have even stated that they don't expect Normal to slow down hardcore Diablo veterans much. Nightmare, Hell and particularly Inferno are where the real challenge lay (and Hardcore, if you're daring).
And I do remember the tutorial period of D2. Hell, I ran a Summoning necro into Hell for nostalgias sake. It wasn't exactly pulse pounding action. Still the game I loved, but many of the mechanics have not aged gracefully. Can anyone really say that Diablo 2 normal was ever 'hard', even back when you first started? Throw up a town portal, chug some potions and I'll bet most of you never died more than a handful of times across that difficulty level.
Their goal with the skills at current is for ALL variants to have a use - one area may make you want to go snare heavy while another you just want Max DPS.
And to claim it never gets hectic in Act 0.5 of D3, IMO Jar of Souls is more hectic than the boss at the end of D2A1 (Anduriel?).
And additionally on "making mistakes" on build while they're not considering it as a permanent thing after arenas are ready supposedly there's some internal debate on making skill switches only available in town. (That's why the currently pointless town buff is there supposedly - just currently disabled)
And note: This is someone who's girlfriend became his wife playing Diablo 1 together.
Go boot up Diablo 2, play for a few hours. Then boot up the beta, play for a few hours. These games have such little relation with one another it's astounding. Another user mentioned this, but the combat seems to have been slowed down. Battles were a crazed and all over the place. There was so much going on at once on screen with enemies running all over the place spamming special attacks etc etc. It was overwhelming, but in such a way where it was so gratifying playing the game that it MADE the game. Playing through the beta I got bored fighting mobs, and that should NEVER happen because I can go boot up D2 right now and will not stop playing until I need to. The game is THAT good.
I just don't get the x factor d2 had. It doesnt feel nearly the same. Again, I really. really. really. Hope were wrong. I want this game to be good so badly. Maybe the game starts kicking ass after act 1 and picks up the pace. Maybe the armor sets are ridiculously cool. Maybe higher difficulties are actually challenging. We don't KNOW until the game drops. And I pre-ordered this 5 years ago, it's too late to go back now.
I agree that the battles are less hectic, but after a couple hours in D2 I'm hunting for the Staff of Kings and thinking about Duriel, not farming the Countess, which is a rough equivalent of where the beta ends. D2 doesn't really get into its stride before late Act 2 or Act 3 on normal.
It's like turning the game off after reaching the Tamoe Highland in Act 1. You want to keep playing for a couple hours, but there isn't a couple hours worth of content in the beta. And you're doing Normal mode, which was so easy in D2 that you could do it with a dozen floating skill points.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe that the basis upon which you have placed it if my interpretation of your issues with the game are correct is not particularly sturdy. Essentially, the hectic fights largely occur in Nightmare mode +, and we aren't seeing a large swathe of monster abilities and density in a tutorial section of the game. What we have in front of us is a tutorial for d3, so I would wait before rendering judgment. You don't have the game in front of me, and neither do I. While it's legitimate to have optimism or fear based on snippets of the beta, your concerns are easily addressed by opening up the game and exposing more, and more difficult content. If your concerns were more along the lines of stat points and permanents skill choices, then yes, that's not so easily addressable, but the combat being slow paced and very reminiscent of Act 1 Normal Mode d2 isn't a fierce critique.
so what i'm gathering from recent posts is that people are arguing "well, d3 is SAID to be harder". the difficulty of a game doesnt stack up to the overall flavor and mechanics of a game. a game could be the easiest game in the world to beat, but if the overall mechanics of a game are awesome, it has major replay value. making a game harder doesnt make it better, nor does it shield it from the fact that the games graphics are WAY to outdated, and the mechanics sucks. Sure, d2 looked, and still does look, like completely and utter **** but its an amazing game and has been around for 12 years. trust me, if the game was horrible nobody would play it. nobody sticks around a game for 12 years just to complain about it. thats not time productive.
The first video alone made me feel a lot better. And watching videos of higher level difficulties makes me feel stupid for everything I've said....
yeah, people on the D3 forums have ripped apart that video frame by frame and the conclusion that we all came up with is this.....the dude playing sucks. he doesnt use spells he should and we think he did that to make the game "look" harder than what it really is. true story
The first act on normal Diablo 2 is NOT hard people.
I mean the fact that people think D3 is a ****ing cake walk after playing 1/3rdish of the first act is a total joke.
Unless you were just a total noob to this type of game when Diablo 2 came out you will NOT die on Act 1 normal difficulty in Diablo 2 under most circumstances with any moderate knowledge of the game.
@SiNcereX
So your saying the entire game is a freaking joke and you can beat every difficulty with your eyes closed?
Blizzard basically hired people to hype the difficulty because they plan to make it as easy as ****.
Sounds like tin-foil hat **** to me bud :).
Crap even the most "casual" of games they have out World of Warcraft still has boss content that is hard as nails and requires an extreme level of teamwork and skill.
The argument I have a problem with the one where people defend the new skill system because "If you messed up your character, it was too bad for you." Well guys, sorry to break it to ya, but that was the point. The game didn't just intervene and say "Hey, looks like your bad at picking good skills, let me just do this for you" like d3 is doing. It adds a level of skill that was neccesary to get to Hell difficulties. Sure, if you built a bad character then you couldn't beat hell mode, but then at that point you didn't DESERVE to beat hell mode. The system rewarded those who had well-built skill trees and had well thought out characters.
I don't agree with locking in choices like that - I think having the option to respec, perhaps at a significant cost, is a good thing to prevent people wasting time rebuilding an entire character.
Before I played the DIII beta, I read that there was free respec-ing. But that's not how the system feels like - it doesn't feel like free respecialization, it feels like no specialization at all.
That's what I'm turned off by. It seems like the focus will be on finding the best equipment. There's no room to play with specializing in one skill. And this is speaking from a casual perspective; I'm aware that the best builds will eventually be discussed and leaked as is all information about these kinds of games. I'm not upset that I can't build my own special snowflake so that I can dominate everyone and prove how awesome I am (barf), I'm sad that I don't get to fool around and build a Druid that summons 14 Ravens, puts all points into vit, and troll people in lld (yes, in earlier versions of D2 the number of Ravens were not so limited, yes it was funny as hell, and yes I got slaughtered by the most serious duelers.)
Anybody who plays casual Magic knows that being different leads to more fun. Some people are immature and latch on to their differences and define themselves by them - this is bad and hurts people who want to win. But there's real entertainment value in novelty and freedom.
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just because the graphics are an update to diablo 2 doesnt mean the graphics aren't outdated. go compare diablo 3 to any other game that has been released recently. look at Guild Wars 2 and compare them to Diablo 3. Look at Terra Online and compare them to Diablo 3.
And actually, there is a bigger story to the game than that. here, watch this video series and you'll understand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ghu8RzsWvs
this dude gets it, 100%. D3 could of looked likie Lineage Eternal, but instead it looks like an eagle eye view of WoW
EDIT : did you know that they took demon heads and pentagrams out of the game? yeah...true story
I just... well...
Is this game going to be rated T?
I never played D2 heavily, but several of my friends waited for, I think, years for a ladder reset.
High level D2 had crazy grinding, crazy builds and a fully developed economy. It really surprised me.
I'm still hopeful that D3 will be fun and deep like D2. The Monk looks amazingly fun. I have several bros that are going to play it with me.
I guess... the atmosphere is just missing the moody, melancholy setting that I am used to.
nope, its rated M...they took out the stuff because they didnt want religious controversy lol...what lame sellouts
I think they just copypasted them over from WoW. It is horrendous.
i have literally not kept up with this game. i stopped 4 months ago after being in the beta invite...nope, this game is booty
If you're referring to me here, I'm nowhere close to a hardcore player.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Hey, if you and a couple of other people feel Diablo 3 isn't Diablo, that's your prerogative.
Stating it like it's a fact is where I'm happy to commit Big Block of Text atrocities. I have no delusions you'll ever change your opinion, but plenty of people who aren't aware of all the facts are whom I'm more interested in providing information for.
And insinuations that you perused the later content while it was commonplace (or however you viewed further), unless you're a Blizzard employee, I have sincere doubts you've got much more experience in game than anyone else.
Comments (from others) about being locked into limited skills and lacklustre drops (among other things) is heavily ignoring that this is the first third of the first act (of four) of the first difficulty (of four). Was Normal D2 really all that impressive up to the Countess? Was having a single point in 3 or 4 skills really so much variety? Were all those cracked sashes really so awe inspiring?
You've built yourself a nice little backdoor in that 'oh it'll totally be fun and millions of people will play it, but it's not Diablo', and I'm calling shenanigans.
You still haven't explained what was superior about Diablo 2. Merely pooped on things you apparently don't like about Diablo 3. As was asked above, a bulleted list would be a start.
The developers have stated that the atmosphere changes as the game progresses.
Act I, things are developing, and it's getting ugly.
I suspect that by Act IV, the poop will have hit the fan.
People expecting the game to go Super Mega Grim Dark from the first moments would leave Blizzard nowhere to go from there.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect what we're seeing isn't a failing of design, it's providing contrast.
WCommander EeshaBDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefBGGlissa, the TraitorBWVish Kal, Blood ArbiterRUNin, the Pain Artist
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestWRBasandra, Battle SeraphBGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGWGhave, Guru of Spores
RGWUril, the MiststalkerGUBThe MimeoplasmUWGRafiq of the ManyWUBRGSliver Overlord
Open Beta had two cases of pentagrams and one of the typical demons head (of which the latter is a splash screen on boot)
And making graphics topend only alienates potential buyers - far more people have 4350s and other poor video cards that would choke on better graphics. Keeping them low (and still looking superb on Max and 1080p) enough for those machines is millions of dollars in the bank.
Going overboard with graphics leads to the failures of games like EQ2, HG:L, and Vanguard.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Blizzard games have always been designed so that lots of people can play them.
Diablo 2 was hardly the pinnacle of graphics either
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Go boot up Diablo 2, play for a few hours. Then boot up the beta, play for a few hours. These games have such little relation with one another it's astounding. Another user mentioned this, but the combat seems to have been slowed down. Battles were a crazed and all over the place. There was so much going on at once on screen with enemies running all over the place spamming special attacks etc etc. It was overwhelming, but in such a way where it was so gratifying playing the game that it MADE the game. Playing through the beta I got bored fighting mobs, and that should NEVER happen because I can go boot up D2 right now and will not stop playing until I need to. The game is THAT good.
The argument I have a problem with the one where people defend the new skill system because "If you messed up your character, it was too bad for you." Well guys, sorry to break it to ya, but that was the point. The game didn't just intervene and say "Hey, looks like your bad at picking good skills, let me just do this for you" like d3 is doing. It adds a level of skill that was neccesary to get to Hell difficulties. Sure, if you built a bad character then you couldn't beat hell mode, but then at that point you didn't DESERVE to beat hell mode. The system rewarded those who had well-built skill trees and had well thought out characters.
Now with these "Auto-level" characters, everybody and their brother will be able to have the "perfect build" without any thought what-so-ever. This takes away from the game because it removes a level of intricacy where you were able to create "basically" anything you wanted, where as now you are made into the character shell that everyone is. Nobody is "specialized" in say, Summoning or Bone and poison, everyone just has everything now.
I just don't get the x factor d2 had. It doesnt feel nearly the same. Again, I really. really. really. Hope were wrong. I want this game to be good so badly. Maybe the game starts kicking ass after act 1 and picks up the pace. Maybe the armor sets are ridiculously cool. Maybe higher difficulties are actually challenging. We don't KNOW until the game drops. And I pre-ordered this 5 years ago, it's too late to go back now.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Hell, you used to be able to run WoW on a toaster.
Granted, a few expansions later and while some sections of the engine really began to show their age, and you could crank some things up to give even modern cards a bit of a run for their money, but yeah, Blizzard has pretty much always used an art design that allowed for it to be scale able across a variety of hardware.
Just blew through the beta again on a Wizard to get my fix before things shut down next week (speaking of which, FYI anyone in the beta; it closes down on May 1st), and blowing up skeletons, barrels, picking up gold (but not having to click on it: progress!) and throwing away piles of garbage while hunting for elusive magic and rare upgrades all felt pretty Diablo'y to me.
Then again, I did use 3 skills that all scaled up with me as I progressed and picked up better gear. Epic fail Blizzard 11/10 pre-order cancelled.
Blizzard has stated that things get more hectic (larger groups of enemies, nastier abilities, etc) in later acts and difficulties.
I must assume you're comparing Nightmare and Hell of D2 to the tutorial period of D3. The developers have even stated that they don't expect Normal to slow down hardcore Diablo veterans much. Nightmare, Hell and particularly Inferno are where the real challenge lay (and Hardcore, if you're daring).
And I do remember the tutorial period of D2. Hell, I ran a Summoning necro into Hell for nostalgias sake. It wasn't exactly pulse pounding action. Still the game I loved, but many of the mechanics have not aged gracefully. Can anyone really say that Diablo 2 normal was ever 'hard', even back when you first started? Throw up a town portal, chug some potions and I'll bet most of you never died more than a handful of times across that difficulty level.
WCommander EeshaBDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefBGGlissa, the TraitorBWVish Kal, Blood ArbiterRUNin, the Pain Artist
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestWRBasandra, Battle SeraphBGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGWGhave, Guru of Spores
RGWUril, the MiststalkerGUBThe MimeoplasmUWGRafiq of the ManyWUBRGSliver Overlord
And to claim it never gets hectic in Act 0.5 of D3, IMO Jar of Souls is more hectic than the boss at the end of D2A1 (Anduriel?).
And additionally on "making mistakes" on build while they're not considering it as a permanent thing after arenas are ready supposedly there's some internal debate on making skill switches only available in town. (That's why the currently pointless town buff is there supposedly - just currently disabled)
And note: This is someone who's girlfriend became his wife playing Diablo 1 together.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
I agree that the battles are less hectic, but after a couple hours in D2 I'm hunting for the Staff of Kings and thinking about Duriel, not farming the Countess, which is a rough equivalent of where the beta ends. D2 doesn't really get into its stride before late Act 2 or Act 3 on normal.
It's like turning the game off after reaching the Tamoe Highland in Act 1. You want to keep playing for a couple hours, but there isn't a couple hours worth of content in the beta. And you're doing Normal mode, which was so easy in D2 that you could do it with a dozen floating skill points.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe that the basis upon which you have placed it if my interpretation of your issues with the game are correct is not particularly sturdy. Essentially, the hectic fights largely occur in Nightmare mode +, and we aren't seeing a large swathe of monster abilities and density in a tutorial section of the game. What we have in front of us is a tutorial for d3, so I would wait before rendering judgment. You don't have the game in front of me, and neither do I. While it's legitimate to have optimism or fear based on snippets of the beta, your concerns are easily addressed by opening up the game and exposing more, and more difficult content. If your concerns were more along the lines of stat points and permanents skill choices, then yes, that's not so easily addressable, but the combat being slow paced and very reminiscent of Act 1 Normal Mode d2 isn't a fierce critique.
I watched a little bit from Blizzcon 2011 about game difficulty and gear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzhoGX_7uFY
and I watched the Blizzcon 2011 Q&A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OnYQ9UCSP8
The first video alone made me feel a lot better. And watching videos of higher level difficulties makes me feel stupid for everything I've said....
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
yeah, people on the D3 forums have ripped apart that video frame by frame and the conclusion that we all came up with is this.....the dude playing sucks. he doesnt use spells he should and we think he did that to make the game "look" harder than what it really is. true story
I mean the fact that people think D3 is a ****ing cake walk after playing 1/3rdish of the first act is a total joke.
Unless you were just a total noob to this type of game when Diablo 2 came out you will NOT die on Act 1 normal difficulty in Diablo 2 under most circumstances with any moderate knowledge of the game.
@SiNcereX
So your saying the entire game is a freaking joke and you can beat every difficulty with your eyes closed?
Blizzard basically hired people to hype the difficulty because they plan to make it as easy as ****.
Sounds like tin-foil hat **** to me bud :).
Crap even the most "casual" of games they have out World of Warcraft still has boss content that is hard as nails and requires an extreme level of teamwork and skill.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I don't agree with locking in choices like that - I think having the option to respec, perhaps at a significant cost, is a good thing to prevent people wasting time rebuilding an entire character.
Before I played the DIII beta, I read that there was free respec-ing. But that's not how the system feels like - it doesn't feel like free respecialization, it feels like no specialization at all.
That's what I'm turned off by. It seems like the focus will be on finding the best equipment. There's no room to play with specializing in one skill. And this is speaking from a casual perspective; I'm aware that the best builds will eventually be discussed and leaked as is all information about these kinds of games. I'm not upset that I can't build my own special snowflake so that I can dominate everyone and prove how awesome I am (barf), I'm sad that I don't get to fool around and build a Druid that summons 14 Ravens, puts all points into vit, and troll people in lld (yes, in earlier versions of D2 the number of Ravens were not so limited, yes it was funny as hell, and yes I got slaughtered by the most serious duelers.)
Anybody who plays casual Magic knows that being different leads to more fun. Some people are immature and latch on to their differences and define themselves by them - this is bad and hurts people who want to win. But there's real entertainment value in novelty and freedom.