Why stall the inevitable? I mean, if life is about preventing suffering as much as possible then wouldn't death be the best way of doing that? It seems to me a puzzling aspect of life, that it continues to propagate despite the fact that it will end soon is rather confounding.
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I have struggled with this myself, especially as I am more-or-less an atheist and I don't really feel that there is a meaning to life on a grand scale. I am a history buff so it's even worse having more of a grasp how short our lives really are and how quickly even the most important of us will be forgotten on a world scale. but this is actually liberating to me. I stick to the rules of society because I am not driven to break them, but if I found myself driven to a more hedonistic lifestyle, it is only the punishment of man I have to think about. the 'purpose' of living is that once you die, your storyis over and you can't do the tings you wanted to. the purpose of life is to have as few regrets as possible when you die
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This made me literally laugh out loud. I thought it was a pretty good response to the OP's question
To the OP's question: I don't think the purpose of life is to prevent suffering as much as possible. After all, how can it be? Even something like losing a pet can lead to suffering and (to the topic at hand) knowing someone who died can be cause for suffering. Rejection for Prom is "suffering". Losing a job is "suffering". Losing a game of Magic is "suffering". We experience those and (hopefully) become better people for them. Life is inevitably about certain experiences that are less than ideal but the should never be used as a reason to stop trying.
There are many things we do in this life that can (and sometimes do) lead to suffering, but the point is that we do them to live our life (as Lithl eloquently put above). I can't foresee any plausible scenario where the decision to do anything (whether to live our lives or eat a cheese pizza) can be predicated on the worst possible outcome. If you eat pizza, you could possibly burn the roof of your mouth so do you swear off pizza forever? No, you let the pizza cool down next time first. Why would you go through life believing it doesn't matter just because there is a worst outcome (death)? You shouldn't. Recognizing it should mean you do as much as you can to live the life you have, not just roll over to the inevitable and go quietly into the night.
The above analogy may seem kind of glib, but is it really that much different? Our lives are built upon experience and living them allows us to both put that experience to use to make it better and have new experiences.
Why stall the inevitable? I mean, if life is about preventing suffering as much as possible then wouldn't death be the best way of doing that? It seems to me a puzzling aspect of life, that it continues to propagate despite the fact that it will end soon is rather confounding.
Preventing suffering is not good in-and-of-itself. Suffering is only important because of what it counters- and that is living a fulfilling, enjoyable and meaningful life. Dying to prevent suffering misses the point of why we don't want to suffer.
If you have Pizza: Will you not try it because at one point you will have eaten all of it? Does the fact that something ends make it meaningless to you? I know that feeling, I say feeling because this is not rational question. You can view it the other way round: I will eat this Pizza regardless if its a limited experience because its all I have! And because of that I will try to enjoy every bite, no matter the flavor! It totaly depends on your mindset, both viewpoints make sense, given the optimistic/pessimistic mindset. The only question is how do I get to the mindset I want to have? This question is solved by everyone on his own....
The purpose of life is to live it. Seems simple enough to me.
Life "lives" but that's not it's purpose, that is just what it does.
The lives we live, from what everyone is saying, seems to be just chasing a new experience and then we die. That seems rather tragic in a sense. It doesn't seem that different from being stuck on a hamster wheel. We try to seek new things to experience, but we are unaware how cyclical our creations we experience are. Everything repeats itself, we just trick ourselves to believing it is new to avoid seeing that.
It almost seems like a curse, or some tragic comedy. That our lives have no meaning and that we are existing in this reality with high powers of reasoning and thought, a brain that seeks meaning or fulfillment in a universe where none of it exists. It only exists in the world that we have created for ourselves, to make it feel like out lives matter or are "worth it". Assigning importance to various things and events in our lives to get some kind of sense that we are a part of something bigger. It's like we need to prove to ourselves that we should exist, even though life itself doesn't have any reason for existing. It simply does. I see this and it's almost sad in a sense, that humans need this sort of framework to live. Yet at the end of the day these are all human things we place importance on, based on human perspectives. Compare that to the vastness of eternity and the universe and it just seems small.
But my question has not been answered. I ask why prevent the inevitable? Why treat the sick if they ultimately will die sooner or later? Why delay? There doesn't seem to be a valid reason for things to continue to live. Nothing has a purpose after all, so it does not have a reason to "be". Seems like it would just be easier to die. You would not have to concern yourself with seeking experiences to experience (it's own sort of suffering that never ends), and you would not suffer. Seems like that's the better deal than living. How ironic that dying would seem more logical than living.
There's an old Jewish joke about that: "better to have not been born at all; but who has that kind of luck?"
Less cynically, meditation and other philosophies seek to elevate and escape sufferings to reach a synthesis of living with peace.
But it does not seem like that is possible for the majority. Enlightenment is something that (if it exists) is something a very small number of people have achieved.
But it does not seem like that is possible for the majority. Enlightenment is something that (if it exists) is something a very small number of people have achieved.
Umm, I'm not sure if you read that link properly because it gives a fairly definitive answer to your question. Throwing out the random propaganda and justified hate of religion it can be boiled down to two stances. Simply if life is currently a net positive continue living, if life is currently a net negative consider giving up. Along with all kinds of reasons why we should let people choose but that is irrelevant to your question.
So for your exact question. Why continue to live if you will eventually die? Because I personally am currently enjoying life. If you aren't then 'my' answer won't help you. Though I would suggest to try to enjoy life.
Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean an answer hasn't been given. I said that the purpose of life is to live it, which is a somewhat pithy way to say that the point of life is to experience the world around you. You can disagree with my position, but you can't truthfully say that you haven't been given an answer.
But it does not seem like that is possible for the majority. Enlightenment is something that (if it exists) is something a very small number of people have achieved.
Umm, I'm not sure if you read that link properly because it gives a fairly definitive answer to your question. Throwing out the random propaganda and justified hate of religion it can be boiled down to two stances. Simply if life is currently a net positive continue living, if life is currently a net negative consider giving up. Along with all kinds of reasons why we should let people choose but that is irrelevant to your question.
So for your exact question. Why continue to live if you will eventually die? Because I personally am currently enjoying life. If you aren't then 'my' answer won't help you. Though I would suggest to try to enjoy life.
It seems that those who find life worth living are in the minority compared to others who struggle day to day. Yet they continue to site those rare instances of people who muddled through to find life worth it.
If it doesn't matter that we live, then it also doesn't matter that we die. "Why delay the inevitable?" It's just as important to ask "Why hasten it?" It's not like you'll definitely become immortal at any point.
Plus, regardless of that choice, you will have an effect on the world, even if it seems like a small one. Suicide is far more likely to have a negative impact and increase suffering of those around you than living and finding something you personally find meaningful. It's sort of Brownian Motion, on a planetary scale.
Why stall the inevitable? I mean, if life is about preventing suffering as much as possible then wouldn't death be the best way of doing that? It seems to me a puzzling aspect of life, that it continues to propagate despite the fact that it will end soon is rather confounding.
That's like asking, "Why eat a cake when it's fresh when it's just going to go stale eventually?"
It's not like you'll definitely become immortal at any point.
Plus, if you live longer instead of dying now, there's always a chance that you'll achieve some form of immortality, whether that's transhumanists succeeding in their goals, or doing something to be recorded in the history books.
Why stall the inevitable? I mean, if life is about preventing suffering as much as possible then wouldn't death be the best way of doing that? It seems to me a puzzling aspect of life, that it continues to propagate despite the fact that it will end soon is rather confounding.
That's like asking, "Why eat a cake when it's fresh when it's just going to go stale eventually?"
No it isn't. I have heard that argument time and again but it doesn't apply to this question.
Also the negative impact you have isn't really an impact at all I would say, sure people might mourn for a bit but then they get over it. Each individual isn't as important as they believe, others will move on. The same way that a single death doesn't stop life from going on. The world won't notice your absence, your life makes no difference. I mean, people die every day and that doesn't stop anything from going on. Makes you wonder why people consider suicide even though the rest believe life is worth it. There seems to be some disconnect.
And on a side note I would argue that immortality is a curse and not something to strive for.
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I mean, I feel like there is something more you're asking here. Others have given their answers and you reject them. Perhaps things would be better served if you tried talking about what is making you feel that way in particular right now. Otherwise I don't really see the talk going anywhere if you just feel like rejecting every answer people give. Though at the end of the day it's purely a personal decision, framed on how you view the world and your place in it.
I mean, I feel like there is something more you're asking here. Others have given their answers and you reject them. Perhaps things would be better served if you tried talking about what is making you feel that way in particular right now. Otherwise I don't really see the talk going anywhere if you just feel like rejecting every answer people give. Though at the end of the day it's purely a personal decision, framed on how you view the world and your place in it.
Because when I hear things like the cake issue that's just a dodge. I'm talking about the entirety of simply existing as a living creature faced with the fact that you will eventually die at some point no matter what attempts you make to stall that (or even why one should stall it to begin with). Questions like the cake issue don't answer it or address the complicated issues that surround it. Like how it's "self evident" that life is a gift and worth living, that things will get better if you hang in there (even though we don't hear about those whom that failed to happen to).
I have heard these answers before but they don't address the issue. Death seems logical since it is the end of suffering and one doesn't have to worry about trying to live a meaningful life (which is it's own sort of suffering we impose on ourselves). Why try to gamble that your life might be worth living in the future when the certainty of death is close? You can end up waiting for something that never comes. It just does not make sense. But I also get that the majority who say life is worth living are probably in a state where they haven't really endured much at all or haven't thought about why they continue to live when all that they are will eventually be forgotten.
The "answers" as you have said aren't really answers at all. They don't make a case for life. Death seems to have a stronger case in the end. Chasing fleeting pleasures is probably another reason for choosing death as seeking them out just to make life worthwhile is suffering as well.
So, my advice is look into Buddhism. You're approaching life and specifically the concept of suffering from a very Buddhist view. Given every focused Buddhist has similar beliefs yet they aren't killing themselves I'd recommend trying to talk to them. If possible in person would be best, but if online is the only option then do that. I think they're more likely to have an answer you're looking for. But I don't think anyone here is going to be of as much help.
Just a gut feeling, but your world view sounds a lot like Buddhism to an extent at least, why I'm suggesting it.
All right, let's use another metaphor. I presume, based on where you are posting this, you play Magic. It's also safe to presume you know milling, right?
Suicide is like milling. Yes, there is absolutely the chance to escape some mighty suffering, but it's just as likely that you toss sons great joy in the yard. Unless you are guaranteed to win the game, you don't start milling.
People commit suicide when they are at the end of their rope, when they know, without a doubt, that things will not get better. They're also, usually, wrong. I'm saying this as someone who's tried. Thrice. Things get better. You up your win percentage by not giving up, to continue the metaphor.
And frankly, if you know suffering, that means you've known joy. Suffering only exists because of joy, and vice versa. Life moves on, but we hold onto those we've lost. It gets better because we learn to find the joy in things again. If you aren't a person of faith, then why waste the one chance you've got to impact the world? Life is going to happen without you, why sit out on it?
Why stall the inevitable? I mean, if life is about preventing suffering as much as possible then wouldn't death be the best way of doing that? It seems to me a puzzling aspect of life, that it continues to propagate despite the fact that it will end soon is rather confounding.
That's like asking, "Why eat a cake when it's fresh when it's just going to go stale eventually?"
No it isn't. I have heard that argument time and again but it doesn't apply to this question.
Yes it is. You're asking, "Why bother taking advantage of something now if it's just going to go away later?"
The fact it's going to go away later is the reason you should take advantage of it now. If you think non-existence is preferable to existence, that's a different debate. The fact that life has an expiration date itself is not a reason to end it, it's a reason to take advantage before the expiration date comes due.
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Productive philosophical discussion of suicide and the value of life is not inappropriate. That said, the moderation team would like to provide this disclaimer in the interest of safety:
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To the OP's question: I don't think the purpose of life is to prevent suffering as much as possible. After all, how can it be? Even something like losing a pet can lead to suffering and (to the topic at hand) knowing someone who died can be cause for suffering. Rejection for Prom is "suffering". Losing a job is "suffering". Losing a game of Magic is "suffering". We experience those and (hopefully) become better people for them. Life is inevitably about certain experiences that are less than ideal but the should never be used as a reason to stop trying.
There are many things we do in this life that can (and sometimes do) lead to suffering, but the point is that we do them to live our life (as Lithl eloquently put above). I can't foresee any plausible scenario where the decision to do anything (whether to live our lives or eat a cheese pizza) can be predicated on the worst possible outcome. If you eat pizza, you could possibly burn the roof of your mouth so do you swear off pizza forever? No, you let the pizza cool down next time first. Why would you go through life believing it doesn't matter just because there is a worst outcome (death)? You shouldn't. Recognizing it should mean you do as much as you can to live the life you have, not just roll over to the inevitable and go quietly into the night.
The above analogy may seem kind of glib, but is it really that much different? Our lives are built upon experience and living them allows us to both put that experience to use to make it better and have new experiences.
Preventing suffering is not good in-and-of-itself. Suffering is only important because of what it counters- and that is living a fulfilling, enjoyable and meaningful life. Dying to prevent suffering misses the point of why we don't want to suffer.
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Why would life be about preventing suffering as much as possible?
Is it confounding? Living organisms reproduce at a faster rate than they die. I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be.
Nice.
That's a poor excuse to continue living (I should know since I have used that before).
Life "lives" but that's not it's purpose, that is just what it does.
The lives we live, from what everyone is saying, seems to be just chasing a new experience and then we die. That seems rather tragic in a sense. It doesn't seem that different from being stuck on a hamster wheel. We try to seek new things to experience, but we are unaware how cyclical our creations we experience are. Everything repeats itself, we just trick ourselves to believing it is new to avoid seeing that.
It almost seems like a curse, or some tragic comedy. That our lives have no meaning and that we are existing in this reality with high powers of reasoning and thought, a brain that seeks meaning or fulfillment in a universe where none of it exists. It only exists in the world that we have created for ourselves, to make it feel like out lives matter or are "worth it". Assigning importance to various things and events in our lives to get some kind of sense that we are a part of something bigger. It's like we need to prove to ourselves that we should exist, even though life itself doesn't have any reason for existing. It simply does. I see this and it's almost sad in a sense, that humans need this sort of framework to live. Yet at the end of the day these are all human things we place importance on, based on human perspectives. Compare that to the vastness of eternity and the universe and it just seems small.
But my question has not been answered. I ask why prevent the inevitable? Why treat the sick if they ultimately will die sooner or later? Why delay? There doesn't seem to be a valid reason for things to continue to live. Nothing has a purpose after all, so it does not have a reason to "be". Seems like it would just be easier to die. You would not have to concern yourself with seeking experiences to experience (it's own sort of suffering that never ends), and you would not suffer. Seems like that's the better deal than living. How ironic that dying would seem more logical than living.
Less cynically, meditation and other philosophies seek to elevate and escape sufferings to reach a synthesis of living with peace.
But it does not seem like that is possible for the majority. Enlightenment is something that (if it exists) is something a very small number of people have achieved.
That being said, to add to my paragraph: https://www.reddit.com/r/SanctionedSuicide/comments/29tjph/what_if_death_is_better_than_living_a_life_filled/
So for your exact question. Why continue to live if you will eventually die? Because I personally am currently enjoying life. If you aren't then 'my' answer won't help you. Though I would suggest to try to enjoy life.
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It seems that those who find life worth living are in the minority compared to others who struggle day to day. Yet they continue to site those rare instances of people who muddled through to find life worth it.
I'm pretty sure "people who have not attempted suicide" is the majority, not the minority.
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Plus, regardless of that choice, you will have an effect on the world, even if it seems like a small one. Suicide is far more likely to have a negative impact and increase suffering of those around you than living and finding something you personally find meaningful. It's sort of Brownian Motion, on a planetary scale.
That's like asking, "Why eat a cake when it's fresh when it's just going to go stale eventually?"
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No it isn't. I have heard that argument time and again but it doesn't apply to this question.
Also the negative impact you have isn't really an impact at all I would say, sure people might mourn for a bit but then they get over it. Each individual isn't as important as they believe, others will move on. The same way that a single death doesn't stop life from going on. The world won't notice your absence, your life makes no difference. I mean, people die every day and that doesn't stop anything from going on. Makes you wonder why people consider suicide even though the rest believe life is worth it. There seems to be some disconnect.
And on a side note I would argue that immortality is a curse and not something to strive for.
Because when I hear things like the cake issue that's just a dodge. I'm talking about the entirety of simply existing as a living creature faced with the fact that you will eventually die at some point no matter what attempts you make to stall that (or even why one should stall it to begin with). Questions like the cake issue don't answer it or address the complicated issues that surround it. Like how it's "self evident" that life is a gift and worth living, that things will get better if you hang in there (even though we don't hear about those whom that failed to happen to).
I have heard these answers before but they don't address the issue. Death seems logical since it is the end of suffering and one doesn't have to worry about trying to live a meaningful life (which is it's own sort of suffering we impose on ourselves). Why try to gamble that your life might be worth living in the future when the certainty of death is close? You can end up waiting for something that never comes. It just does not make sense. But I also get that the majority who say life is worth living are probably in a state where they haven't really endured much at all or haven't thought about why they continue to live when all that they are will eventually be forgotten.
The "answers" as you have said aren't really answers at all. They don't make a case for life. Death seems to have a stronger case in the end. Chasing fleeting pleasures is probably another reason for choosing death as seeking them out just to make life worthwhile is suffering as well.
Just a gut feeling, but your world view sounds a lot like Buddhism to an extent at least, why I'm suggesting it.
Suicide is like milling. Yes, there is absolutely the chance to escape some mighty suffering, but it's just as likely that you toss sons great joy in the yard. Unless you are guaranteed to win the game, you don't start milling.
People commit suicide when they are at the end of their rope, when they know, without a doubt, that things will not get better. They're also, usually, wrong. I'm saying this as someone who's tried. Thrice. Things get better. You up your win percentage by not giving up, to continue the metaphor.
And frankly, if you know suffering, that means you've known joy. Suffering only exists because of joy, and vice versa. Life moves on, but we hold onto those we've lost. It gets better because we learn to find the joy in things again. If you aren't a person of faith, then why waste the one chance you've got to impact the world? Life is going to happen without you, why sit out on it?
Yes it is. You're asking, "Why bother taking advantage of something now if it's just going to go away later?"
The fact it's going to go away later is the reason you should take advantage of it now. If you think non-existence is preferable to existence, that's a different debate. The fact that life has an expiration date itself is not a reason to end it, it's a reason to take advantage before the expiration date comes due.
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