To those who are more socially conscious than I, what purpose or message is trying to be delivered by protesters using the Mexican flag?
I'm assuming this is during a Trump protest?
If so, it's in reaction to Trump's statement that Mexican immigrants are rapists and drug dealers and violent criminals and we need to build a wall to keep them out.
To those who are more socially conscious than I, what purpose or message is trying to be delivered by protesters using the Mexican flag?
I'm assuming this is during a Trump protest?
If so, it's in reaction to Trump's statement that Mexican immigrants are rapists and drug dealers and violent criminals and we need to build a wall to keep them out.
If that is case, you think flying the Mexican flag helps or hurts their cause? I do not agree with Trump at all, but I find the use of the flag to be offensive and shows a lack of respect to the US. You want to be part of this country, but you are flying the Mexican flag in protest, in the US?
People use national flags to represent the ethnicity of that country as well as the country itself. It's like when you see the Irish flag on St. Patrick's day. They're not saying "the US is a crap country and Ireland is an awesome country", the flag represents their ancestry. When people have a Mexican flag at an anti-Trump protest, they don't mean that Mexico is a better country than the US, they mean it to symbolize their Mexican ancestry.
People use national flags to represent the ethnicity of that country as well as the country itself. It's like when you see the Irish flag on St. Patrick's day. They're not saying "the US is a crap country and Ireland is an awesome country", the flag represents their ancestry. When people have a Mexican flag at an anti-Trump protest, they don't mean that Mexico is a better country than the US, they mean it to symbolize their Mexican ancestry.
I get that, but they are or want to be Americans. You protest immigrant hate speech by showing how Mexican you are....you'd be better served showing how American you are. With that said, the flag at protest can be interpreted several ways. Again, I get what you are saying, they are not intentionally trying to offend people so that makes it okay to be disrespectful and not considerate of those around them who might take it the wrong way. I think its much more important to respect the country you live in when you are protesting. There are plenty of positive ways to demonstrate your heritage. I do not think this is one of them.
I find it hard to support an action that flies a flag of country inside of another country that you are trying to reinforce both your dignity and human rights in, not to mention the flag represents a country that is orders of magnitude less diverse than the US.
I get that, but they are or want to be Americans. You protest immigrant hate speech by showing how Mexican you are....you'd be better served showing how American you are. With that said, the flag at protest can be interpreted several ways. Again, I get what you are saying, they are not intentionally trying to offend people so that makes it okay to be disrespectful and not considerate of those around them who might take it the wrong way. I think its much more important to respect the country you live in when you are protesting. There are plenty of positive ways to demonstrate your heritage. I do not think this is one of them.
I find it hard to support an action that flies a flag of country inside of another country that you are trying to reinforce both your dignity and human rights in, not to mention the flag represents a country that is orders of magnitude less diverse than the US.
Flying another country's flag isn't disrespecting the US. It's not disrespectful of other people around them. Embracing your heritage and ethnicity doesn't make you less American. You don't have to choose between being American and being Mexican, or being American and being Irish, or being American and being any ethnicity.
Flying another country's flag isn't disrespecting the US. It's not disrespectful of other people around them. Embracing your heritage and ethnicity doesn't make you less American. You don't have to choose between being American and being Mexican, or being American and being Irish, or being American and being any ethnicity.
You do choose between being American or whatever country you're abandoning when you change your citizenship.
I have no idea what this protest is, but it is one thing to support your country of origin in sporting events or some such and another thing entirely to support that your country of origin in a political event or such simply because of your heritage/ethnic origin.
Flying another country's flag isn't disrespecting the US. It's not disrespectful of other people around them. Embracing your heritage and ethnicity doesn't make you less American. You don't have to choose between being American and being Mexican, or being American and being Irish, or being American and being any ethnicity.
This so much. If you were in Mexican soil waving a USA flag against people who were discriminating USA citizens or Mexican-USA citizens you wouldn't be asking this kind of questions. I get that USA citizens love their country and their flag but dual nationality is a thing...
I get that, but they are or want to be Americans. You protest immigrant hate speech by showing how Mexican you are....you'd be better served showing how American you are.
Which is not the point. The point is to express support for Mexico and Mexicans. Thus, they are waving a symbol of Mexico to indicate that this is their message.
Again, I get what you are saying, they are not intentionally trying to offend people so that makes it okay to be disrespectful and not considerate of those around them who might take it the wrong way.
Except those who took it the wrong way took it the wrong way. As in, they were wrong. Not the people holding the flags.
There is nothing disrespectful or not considerate about having a flag from another country.
I think its much more important to respect the country you live in when you are protesting.
Nothing is demonstrating that they don't.
There are plenty of positive ways to demonstrate your heritage. I do not think this is one of them.
So they're not allowed to have a flag from another country? Symbols that depict other countries are somehow wrong? That's ridiculous.
You do choose between being American or whatever country you're abandoning when you change your citizenship.
You choose between countries, but not between heritage. You don't magically stop being Mexican or Irish or whatever when you become an American citizen, you just stop (unless you're a dual-citizen of course) being a Mexican citizen or Irish citizen.
I have no idea what this protest is, but it is one thing to support your country of origin in sporting events or some such and another thing entirely to support that your country of origin in a political event or such simply because of your heritage/ethnic origin.
I don't think it's about supporting a country at all. Look at all the Cuban-Americans, often refugees or children of refugees, who hate Castro and the Cuban state, but still fly the Cuban flag. It represents their heritage, not the nation they fled.
I get that, but they are or want to be Americans. You protest immigrant hate speech by showing how Mexican you are....you'd be better served showing how American you are. With that said, the flag at protest can be interpreted several ways. Again, I get what you are saying, they are not intentionally trying to offend people so that makes it okay to be disrespectful and not considerate of those around them who might take it the wrong way. I think its much more important to respect the country you live in when you are protesting. There are plenty of positive ways to demonstrate your heritage. I do not think this is one of them.
I find it hard to support an action that flies a flag of country inside of another country that you are trying to reinforce both your dignity and human rights in, not to mention the flag represents a country that is orders of magnitude less diverse than the US.
Flying another country's flag isn't disrespecting the US. It's not disrespectful of other people around them. Embracing your heritage and ethnicity doesn't make you less American. You don't have to choose between being American and being Mexican, or being American and being Irish, or being American and being any ethnicity.
I did not say it makes you less American. There is no such thing. If you want to respond to the argument I made, that'd be cool.
I did not say it makes you less American. There is no such thing. Mexico is a nation, not an ethnicity. I do not believe it's a heritage either, but I'll let it pass.
How is being Mexican not a heritage? Do you not believe that Mexico has a unique culture from the rest of central America?
So they're not allowed to have a flag from another country? Symbols that depict other countries are somehow wrong? That's ridiculous.
It's not wrong, its disrespectful and, no I never said they are allowed or not allowed anything. Trying to straw man my argument?
How is it disrespectful?
A flag has many meanings, other than the one intended by the user. The flag represents a country. The person flying the flag is or wants to be part of the United States, yet protest people within the US political system with a Mexican flag, to show how Mexican they are. In the US, your human rights are not based on your "heritage" or "ethnicity".
Finally, I would not go to Iraq and fly the American flag protesting against an Iraqi anti-American political figure. It's disrespectful to their country.
It seems to me you split arguments up and only focus on specific segemnts while igoring the entire context, then you pretend to act confused and oblivious to what people are trying to say.
There is nothing about my post that would make one think "less american"
A flag has many meanings, other than the one intended by the user. The flag represents a country. The person flying the flag is or wants to be part of the United States, yet protest people within the US political system with a Mexican flag, to show how Mexican they are. In the US, your human rights are not based on your "heritage" or "ethnicity".
Okay so you are saying that it is not actually disrespectful?
So they're not allowed to have a flag from another country? Symbols that depict other countries are somehow wrong? That's ridiculous.
It's not wrong, its disrespectful and, no I never said they are allowed or not allowed anything. Trying to straw man my argument?
How is it disrespectful?
A flag has many meanings, other than the one intended by the user. The flag represents a country. The person flying the flag is or wants to be part of the United States, yet protest people within the US political system with a Mexican flag, to show how Mexican they are.
Yes. Mexican in ethnicity or otherwise showing solidarity with people who hail from Mexico as they are being targeted in recent socio-poliyical goings on. It has been stated multiple times that the flag is being used as a symbol of ethnicity and solidarity but you seem bent on only sewing the situation as being "this country vs that country".
In the US, your human rights are not based on your "heritage" or "ethnicity".
This is up for debate. Especially recently. What with current injustices we see in the legal system and the proposed injustices against ethnically Latino and religiously Muslim human beings in the US. Both aspects are apart of a person's heritage, by the way.
Finally, I would not go to Iraq and fly the American flag protesting against an Iraqi anti-American political figure. It's disrespectful to their country.
I would say that you could as, again, this would be, in my eyes, a show of solidarity. You are not somehow disrespecting the country, you are opposing that specific individual by showing support to what they are against. Here's an example: Did you see it as somehow insulting that people wore Eiffel Tower symbols and clothing with " I stand with France" or "Pray for Paris" in the United States after the Paris shootings? This is essentially the same concept.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
I guess southerners flying the confederate flag as a show of thier solidarity and heritge is not disrespectful either. I don't buy either arguement.
You want to be treated like an Ameerican, start embracing American culture instead of pointing out your Mexican cultue that is far less diverse. The American flag represents all cultures, yet they pick thier home country as thier identity.
I guess southerners flying the confederate flag as a show of thier solidarity and heritge is not disrespectful either. I don't buy either arguement.
You want to be treated like an Ameerican, start embracing American culture instead of pointing out your Mexican cultue that is far less diverse. The American flag represents all cultures, yet they pick thier home country as thier identity.
The Confederate flag is a separate issue entirely, mainly divided from this issue by virtue of the fact that the confederacy was based upon the enslavement of an entire ethnicity and held millions of such enslaved humans under its purview. These effects are still felt today and thus the flag is seen by many as a symbol of racism and oppression and rightfully so. Moreover, the discussion on the Confederate flag is not about whether or not individuals should be able to have it, but that it should not be flown over government buildings. The Mexican flag has no such history with respect to the US. Quote the contrary, historically Mexico has been on the receiving end of America force. Furthermore, southern heritage is already encompassed within American heritage.
No to your second statement. Immigrants should not be somehow forced to forget everything they came from and eschew a culture they grew up with to "assimilate". If the American flag represents all cultures why are you treating it as some great taboo tfor one to display one such culture of which they are a part? That seems contradictory. There is no need for immigrants to conform to your standards of what an "American" is or what they should do once they enter the country.
I'm sensing two things that are pretty alarming here: A nationalist undertone that is generating an indignant "become just like me/us or go 'home'" attitude and a need to control the social freedoms of others by trying to tell them that they have to conform to your perception of what American culture should be. Correct me if I'm wrong.
By teh way, you seemed to have avoided tackling the bulk of my previous post entirely.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
I guess southerners flying the confederate flag as a show of thier solidarity and heritge is not disrespectful either. I don't buy either arguement.
Ok, the Dixie flag is a symbol of a society that involved institutionalized racism and slavery. People are offended by it because they are offended by institutionalized racism and slavery.
The Mexican flag is a symbol of the Mexican people.
As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone would find the Mexican flag offensive is if they are offended by the existence of Mexicans.
Is that why you're offended?
You want to be treated like an Ameerican,
Mexican Americans are American.
And it's not about being treated as American, it's about being treated fairly, like not being stereotyped as rapists and drug dealers.
The American flag represents all cultures, yet they pick thier home country as thier identity.
Why do you have a problem with Mexican Americans identifying as being Mexican?
I guess southerners flying the confederate flag as a show of thier solidarity and heritge is not disrespectful either. I don't buy either arguement.
You want to be treated like an Ameerican, start embracing American culture instead of pointing out your Mexican cultue that is far less diverse. The American flag represents all cultures, yet they pick thier home country as thier identity.
The Confederate flag is a separate issue entirely, mainly divided from this issue by virtue of the fact that the confederacy was based upon the enslavement of an entire ethnicity and held millions of such enslaved humans under its purview. These effects are still felt today and thus the flag is seen by many as a symbol of racism and oppression and rightfully so. Moreover, the discussion on the Confederate flag is not about whether or not individuals should be able to have it, but that it should not be flown over government buildings. The Mexican flag has no such history with respect to the US. Quote the contrary, historically Mexico has been on the receiving end of America force. Furthermore, southern heritage is already encompassed within American heritage.
No to your second statement. Immigrants should not be somehow forced to forget everything they came from and eschew a culture they grew up with to "assimilate". If the American flag represents all cultures why are you treating it as some great taboo tfor one to display one such culture of which they are a part? That seems contradictory. There is no need for immigrants to conform to your standards of what an "American" is or what they should do once they enter the country.
I'm sensing two things that are pretty alarming here: A nationalist undertone that is generating an indignant "become just like me/us or go 'home'" attitude and a need to control the social freedoms of others by trying to tell them that they have to conform to your perception of what American culture should be. Correct me if I'm wrong.
By teh way, you seemed to have avoided tackling the bulk of my previous post entirely.
I do not have a keyboard at the moment so unaable to tackle the entire argument. I will this evening though.
(the confederate flag issue is more than just about the state capital)
With that said, you and I interpet the flag differently....you are completely dissmissive of the interpretations of those who use it, while decrying its insensitivity to a group of people. With the mexican flag you are being dimissive of my sensitivities while embracing the intention of the user. You do this despite the symbol having mutiple meanings. You are deciding in each case what the flag repersents and are dismissing all other meanings.
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I could not imagine protesting in another country using the American flag.
Not by Americans, generally.
If so, it's in reaction to Trump's statement that Mexican immigrants are rapists and drug dealers and violent criminals and we need to build a wall to keep them out.
If that is case, you think flying the Mexican flag helps or hurts their cause? I do not agree with Trump at all, but I find the use of the flag to be offensive and shows a lack of respect to the US. You want to be part of this country, but you are flying the Mexican flag in protest, in the US?
I get that, but they are or want to be Americans. You protest immigrant hate speech by showing how Mexican you are....you'd be better served showing how American you are. With that said, the flag at protest can be interpreted several ways. Again, I get what you are saying, they are not intentionally trying to offend people so that makes it okay to be disrespectful and not considerate of those around them who might take it the wrong way. I think its much more important to respect the country you live in when you are protesting. There are plenty of positive ways to demonstrate your heritage. I do not think this is one of them.
I find it hard to support an action that flies a flag of country inside of another country that you are trying to reinforce both your dignity and human rights in, not to mention the flag represents a country that is orders of magnitude less diverse than the US.
Flying another country's flag isn't disrespecting the US. It's not disrespectful of other people around them. Embracing your heritage and ethnicity doesn't make you less American. You don't have to choose between being American and being Mexican, or being American and being Irish, or being American and being any ethnicity.
You do choose between being American or whatever country you're abandoning when you change your citizenship.
I have no idea what this protest is, but it is one thing to support your country of origin in sporting events or some such and another thing entirely to support that your country of origin in a political event or such simply because of your heritage/ethnic origin.
This so much. If you were in Mexican soil waving a USA flag against people who were discriminating USA citizens or Mexican-USA citizens you wouldn't be asking this kind of questions. I get that USA citizens love their country and their flag but dual nationality is a thing...
Why?
What's wrong with showing solidarity with Mexicans by showing a Mexican flag?
Which is not the point. The point is to express support for Mexico and Mexicans. Thus, they are waving a symbol of Mexico to indicate that this is their message.
Except those who took it the wrong way took it the wrong way. As in, they were wrong. Not the people holding the flags.
There is nothing disrespectful or not considerate about having a flag from another country.
Nothing is demonstrating that they don't.
So they're not allowed to have a flag from another country? Symbols that depict other countries are somehow wrong? That's ridiculous.
You choose between countries, but not between heritage. You don't magically stop being Mexican or Irish or whatever when you become an American citizen, you just stop (unless you're a dual-citizen of course) being a Mexican citizen or Irish citizen.
I don't think it's about supporting a country at all. Look at all the Cuban-Americans, often refugees or children of refugees, who hate Castro and the Cuban state, but still fly the Cuban flag. It represents their heritage, not the nation they fled.
I did not say it makes you less American. There is no such thing. If you want to respond to the argument I made, that'd be cool.
It's not wrong, its disrespectful and, no I never said they are allowed or not allowed anything. Trying to straw man my argument?
A flag has many meanings, other than the one intended by the user. The flag represents a country. The person flying the flag is or wants to be part of the United States, yet protest people within the US political system with a Mexican flag, to show how Mexican they are. In the US, your human rights are not based on your "heritage" or "ethnicity".
Finally, I would not go to Iraq and fly the American flag protesting against an Iraqi anti-American political figure. It's disrespectful to their country.
Then what did you mean by "you'd be better served showing how American you are"?
There is nothing about my post that would make one think "less american"
Yes. Mexican in ethnicity or otherwise showing solidarity with people who hail from Mexico as they are being targeted in recent socio-poliyical goings on. It has been stated multiple times that the flag is being used as a symbol of ethnicity and solidarity but you seem bent on only sewing the situation as being "this country vs that country".
This is up for debate. Especially recently. What with current injustices we see in the legal system and the proposed injustices against ethnically Latino and religiously Muslim human beings in the US. Both aspects are apart of a person's heritage, by the way.
I would say that you could as, again, this would be, in my eyes, a show of solidarity. You are not somehow disrespecting the country, you are opposing that specific individual by showing support to what they are against. Here's an example: Did you see it as somehow insulting that people wore Eiffel Tower symbols and clothing with " I stand with France" or "Pray for Paris" in the United States after the Paris shootings? This is essentially the same concept.
-Chandra Nalaar
You want to be treated like an Ameerican, start embracing American culture instead of pointing out your Mexican cultue that is far less diverse. The American flag represents all cultures, yet they pick thier home country as thier identity.
No to your second statement. Immigrants should not be somehow forced to forget everything they came from and eschew a culture they grew up with to "assimilate". If the American flag represents all cultures why are you treating it as some great taboo tfor one to display one such culture of which they are a part? That seems contradictory. There is no need for immigrants to conform to your standards of what an "American" is or what they should do once they enter the country.
I'm sensing two things that are pretty alarming here: A nationalist undertone that is generating an indignant "become just like me/us or go 'home'" attitude and a need to control the social freedoms of others by trying to tell them that they have to conform to your perception of what American culture should be. Correct me if I'm wrong.
By teh way, you seemed to have avoided tackling the bulk of my previous post entirely.
-Chandra Nalaar
Ok, the Dixie flag is a symbol of a society that involved institutionalized racism and slavery. People are offended by it because they are offended by institutionalized racism and slavery.
The Mexican flag is a symbol of the Mexican people.
As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone would find the Mexican flag offensive is if they are offended by the existence of Mexicans.
Is that why you're offended?
Mexican Americans are American.
And it's not about being treated as American, it's about being treated fairly, like not being stereotyped as rapists and drug dealers.
Why do you have a problem with Mexican Americans identifying as being Mexican?
I do not have a keyboard at the moment so unaable to tackle the entire argument. I will this evening though.
(the confederate flag issue is more than just about the state capital)
With that said, you and I interpet the flag differently....you are completely dissmissive of the interpretations of those who use it, while decrying its insensitivity to a group of people. With the mexican flag you are being dimissive of my sensitivities while embracing the intention of the user. You do this despite the symbol having mutiple meanings. You are deciding in each case what the flag repersents and are dismissing all other meanings.