It's inevitable that Nazi's are associated with the left, because that is the truth of the matter. Nazi's are known as right wing due to a lot of assumptions and misconceptions about what right and left is, but also in no small part because of heavy propaganda at the time, the legacy of which lingers on today in the heart of these misconceptions.
In the early 20th century, there were several factions of left-wing politics. Before their rise in power of some of these countries, the left-wing internally fought (sometimes violently) to consolidate power. There were massive efforts to suppress alternative viewpoints once a faction took over the party. For example, in Soviet Russia there was a concerted effort to label Nazism as right wing. This rippled outside of their borders through their political agents. A lot of people are little aware of the influence that the Soviets had even in the US media of the time. They had people on the payrol from media figures to even high ranking people in the President's administration.
There was also a push domestically by other progressives of the time to disassociate themselves with Nazi ideology after the War broke out. Many of the driving political ideas of progressivism overlapped and inspire Nazism. Eugenics for example, was not invented by the Nazi's. The idea had been well received among American Progressives long before the German political party rose to power. Planned Parenthood for example was created by left wing Margaret Sangar for the express purpose of controlling the African American population.
Other more mundane platforms of the Nazi party like government healthcare, right to a job and shelter (provided by government), a position of the collective over the individual, nationalisation of industries, government ownership of land, heavy government involvement in education, and ultimately the unlimited authority of the central government power.
Not that I expect anyone here to take my word for it. There is an interesting book "Liberal Fascism" which goes into great detail on this.
Nazi's are known as right wing due to a lot of assumptions and misconceptions about what right and left is...
I could just as easily argue that you're calling them left wing because of your assumptions and misconceptions about what right and left are. What makes your definitions correct and the standard scholarly definitions (by which Nazis are archetypically far right) incorrect?
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Why is a thread about 'mansplaining' now about political orientation of different historical groups under modern classifications? Does the position of the Nazi party on an what is basically an arbitrary classification system really matter to issues of gender? Off topic much?
And I'm questioning the validity of using these groups as an example. They have no influence on basically any facet of American life, much less politics.
I'm not commenting on their influence. I'm demonstrating that there exist cultures in which leftism coincides with puritanism.
I did not mean to imply that there is never overlap, but was merely responding to the idea that violent ideological purity is a tenant of modern American progressivism, specifically the Democratic party.
Unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, so I can't respond to Cthulhu's points ad I would like, so I'll have to leave that for later.
Hate to break it to you, but a great deal of Tumblr people aren't exactly Teenagers in the strictest sense. A majority of them are College kids; old enough to vote.
Most of them will NOT listen to any sort of reason; I can't tell you how many times I've made a friend in college, they've asked me questions about politics and have blocked/unfriended me because of it.
And we're not even talking stuff like Racism or Sexism; we're talking stuff like "No, a McDonald's employee doesn't need to make enough to afford a two bedroom apartment; a one bedroom or even a studio would be fine".
Class and race has been a gender "issue" for some time now.
And for as long as it's the idiots who talk loudest about it, they always will be.
The problem with all these issues (racism, sexism, pretty much anything) is that the loud people who ARE pissed off have every right to be, but rather than doing anything about it just want to piss off the people who can help.
It also doesn't help that Anita Sarkeesian is typically the tone of any sort of discussion when it should be more like Liana K.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Wait what's wrong with Anita "basic feminist criticism of nerd stuff" Sarkeesian?
Like, I stopped watching her stuff because it's really basic criticism (and also there are some legit issues with it which someone else helpfully covered here) but her actual tone is generally pretty soft. It's her hatedom (like a fandom but for pricks) that creeps me out, personally.
EDIT: Before anyone comments that I'm saying they're part of her hatedom and starts yelling, I've not said that yet. Have a cute cat photo as a peace offering.
It's inevitable that Nazi's are associated with the left, because that is the truth of the matter. Nazi's are known as right wing due to a lot of assumptions and misconceptions about what right and left is, but also in no small part because of heavy propaganda at the time, the legacy of which lingers on today in the heart of these misconceptions.
The only reason that nazism is associated with leftism by anyone is that they see that the name comes from Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei but have no idea about what differentiates fascism from leftist ideologies.
Except I didn't make that argument? I've already been over this in some small detail. No, they were left wing because their political platform and ideology was left wing.
Also, you are twisting yourself in knots to try to separate one form of all-powerful centralised government from another form of all-powerful centralised government. The facade is different, but the results are the same.
Except I didn't make that argument? I've already been over this in some small detail. No, they were left wing because their political platform and ideology was left wing.
Also, you are twisting yourself in knots to try to separate one form of all-powerful centralised government from another form of all-powerful centralised government. The facade is different, but the results are the same.
I am no historian, so I'll quote Wikipedia's FAQ on the topic:
Quote from = Nazi Party FAQ, Wikipedia »
Why is the Nazi Party labeled a far-right party? They called themselves socialists, so should they be left-wing?
A: Almost all historical and present-day academic literature places the Nazi Party on the far-right of the traditional left-right spectrum, which in turn is the most common short-form classification used in political science. The Nazis themselves attacked both left-wing and traditional right-wing politicians and movements in Germany as being traitors to Germany. While the Nazi regime's economic policies are very different from those of present-day right-wing parties that adhere to classical liberal or neoliberal positions (which advocate, e.g., a highly deregulated, privatized economic environment), Nazi economic policy was typical of the early to mid twentieth century far-right, and indeed most political currents of the time, in that it embraced interventionist economics. The Nazi Party absorbed the far-right reactionary monarchist and nationalist German National People's Party into its membership in 1933. The Nazi Party also held good relations with openly right-wing political movements in Europe, such as the Spanish Confederation of the Autonomous Right, whose leader Gil-Robles was a guest at the 1933 Nazi Party Nuremberg rally and sought to model his movement upon the Nazi Party.
Back on topic of the thread, have you read the paper on hurricane names and deadliness yet? The one that you tried to claim was ridiculous, so as to dismiss another paper from the same publication as unreliable? (Before this Nazi-left-or-right derailment.)
The facade is different, but the results are the same.
And the labels "left" and "right" are descriptions of that facade. What you are doing here is as if I painted my house red and you painted your house blue, and then you insisted my house must be blue because they are both houses.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
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It's for sure Misandrist but it might actually be a real social phenomenon. Just go to any gym. You'll see men "mansplaining" equipment to women even when the woman is in better shape than him. I think some men think it makes them look cool or knowledgeable.
Ironically, a common complaint made about women on surveys is "giving unsolicited advice".
Is it anti-Semitic to say Jew greed? I would say yes, so how could it not be misandrist to say mansplaining?
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As humans, we have a tendency to cling to ideologies. Any positive set of beliefs can quickly turn malevolent once treated as ideology and not an honest intellectual or experiential pursuit of greater truth. Ideology does in entire economic systems and countries, causes religions to massacre thousands, turns human rights movements into authoritarian sects and makes fools out of humanity’s most brilliant minds. Einstein famously wasted the second half of his career trying to calculate a cosmological constant that didn’t exist because “God doesn’t play dice.”
Is it anti-Semitic to say Jew greed? I would say yes, so how could it not be misandrist to say mansplaining?
'Jew greed' is reinforcing a harmful and false racial stereotype, 'mansplaining' is drawing attention to a trend? Wouldn't you be better off comparing 'on average, men are stronger than women' to 'on average, men are more likely to condescendingly explain something to women that they already know, than the reverse'? Do you view 'on average, men are stronger than women' as misogyny?
So the survey result could be that the people filling it in don't want or expect women to talk at all in that context, maybe.
The studies also point out a common point of sociology/psychology research, which is that direct observation is much more reliable that surveys of how people felt in the past: human memory restructures over time, and generally does so to make the owner of the memory feel more justified in their behavior.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
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In the early 20th century, there were several factions of left-wing politics. Before their rise in power of some of these countries, the left-wing internally fought (sometimes violently) to consolidate power. There were massive efforts to suppress alternative viewpoints once a faction took over the party. For example, in Soviet Russia there was a concerted effort to label Nazism as right wing. This rippled outside of their borders through their political agents. A lot of people are little aware of the influence that the Soviets had even in the US media of the time. They had people on the payrol from media figures to even high ranking people in the President's administration.
There was also a push domestically by other progressives of the time to disassociate themselves with Nazi ideology after the War broke out. Many of the driving political ideas of progressivism overlapped and inspire Nazism. Eugenics for example, was not invented by the Nazi's. The idea had been well received among American Progressives long before the German political party rose to power. Planned Parenthood for example was created by left wing Margaret Sangar for the express purpose of controlling the African American population.
Other more mundane platforms of the Nazi party like government healthcare, right to a job and shelter (provided by government), a position of the collective over the individual, nationalisation of industries, government ownership of land, heavy government involvement in education, and ultimately the unlimited authority of the central government power.
Not that I expect anyone here to take my word for it. There is an interesting book "Liberal Fascism" which goes into great detail on this.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
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Hate to break it to you, but a great deal of Tumblr people aren't exactly Teenagers in the strictest sense. A majority of them are College kids; old enough to vote.
Most of them will NOT listen to any sort of reason; I can't tell you how many times I've made a friend in college, they've asked me questions about politics and have blocked/unfriended me because of it.
And we're not even talking stuff like Racism or Sexism; we're talking stuff like "No, a McDonald's employee doesn't need to make enough to afford a two bedroom apartment; a one bedroom or even a studio would be fine".
And for as long as it's the idiots who talk loudest about it, they always will be.
The problem with all these issues (racism, sexism, pretty much anything) is that the loud people who ARE pissed off have every right to be, but rather than doing anything about it just want to piss off the people who can help.
It also doesn't help that Anita Sarkeesian is typically the tone of any sort of discussion when it should be more like Liana K.
Like, I stopped watching her stuff because it's really basic criticism (and also there are some legit issues with it which someone else helpfully covered here) but her actual tone is generally pretty soft. It's her hatedom (like a fandom but for pricks) that creeps me out, personally.
EDIT: Before anyone comments that I'm saying they're part of her hatedom and starts yelling, I've not said that yet. Have a cute cat photo as a peace offering.
Art is life itself.
Except I didn't make that argument? I've already been over this in some small detail. No, they were left wing because their political platform and ideology was left wing.
Also, you are twisting yourself in knots to try to separate one form of all-powerful centralised government from another form of all-powerful centralised government. The facade is different, but the results are the same.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Back on topic of the thread, have you read the paper on hurricane names and deadliness yet? The one that you tried to claim was ridiculous, so as to dismiss another paper from the same publication as unreliable? (Before this Nazi-left-or-right derailment.)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Is it anti-Semitic to say Jew greed? I would say yes, so how could it not be misandrist to say mansplaining?
'Jew greed' is reinforcing a harmful and false racial stereotype, 'mansplaining' is drawing attention to a trend? Wouldn't you be better off comparing 'on average, men are stronger than women' to 'on average, men are more likely to condescendingly explain something to women that they already know, than the reverse'? Do you view 'on average, men are stronger than women' as misogyny?
So the survey result could be that the people filling it in don't want or expect women to talk at all in that context, maybe.
The studies also point out a common point of sociology/psychology research, which is that direct observation is much more reliable that surveys of how people felt in the past: human memory restructures over time, and generally does so to make the owner of the memory feel more justified in their behavior.
Art is life itself.