Thank you for the information. That actually scares me a bit that in theory, just log jam in a bunch of candidates, and then when no one can get the majority in the first round, broker in someone else not even in the race. I imagine the Democrats could do the same thing in theory, if they weren't down to just two candidates anyway (although Super delegates is a whole different issue).
At the risk of continuously sounding like a doomsayer, I just finished an article a the Koch Brothers pretty much saying that there is no one left they would be willing to spend money on (if the Republican Establishment had some sort of leadership council, these guys would be on it). How badly does this matter to Rubio, or is too late to really affect what is going to happen (Id est, Rubio isn't going anywhere anyway)?
@SC: At the risk of perhaps changing the subject too much, where is the line drawn? Both the right and left on the issue of PC have likely gone too far, but what part is correct?
I knew what triggered it, but how beholden are delegates to their candidate?
Not at all.
For example, the Florida delegates are required to vote in the first vote of the convention however the Florida primary vote went. However, in the second vote, they can vote for anybody.
Like, anybody. There was a thing on Fox News just now about a petition to get delegates to vote for Paul Ryan in the brokered convention. Ryan himself told them to stop, but such a thing would be within the rules.
For instance, in some universe, could Trump decide to just all in-Cruz and convince his delegates for the next round to vote Cruz, or would his delegates more likely than not just go any way each individual person wants?
No, that's just it. They're not his delegates. In the second round, any delegate can vote however he or she chooses to vote.
Now, Trump can try to convince the delegates who voted for him to vote for Cruz in the brokered convention, sure. And Cruz is definitely going to try to convince the delegates who voted for Trump to vote for Cruz. But they aren't obligated to. They can vote for anyone they choose.
Who selects the delegates? Are they chosen by the candidates or by the state parties? ie are all the Trump delegates Trump supporters or some party schmucks required to vote for Trump on the first ballot.
The delegates as I understand it, are chosen by the party and are typically loyal party members. Like Highroller said, they are bound to the candidate who wins their state and percentage of the vote (at least, for the first run).
Thank you for the information. That actually scares me a bit that in theory, just log jam in a bunch of candidates, and then when no one can get the majority in the first round, broker in someone else not even in the race. I imagine the Democrats could do the same thing in theory, if they weren't down to just two candidates anyway (although Super delegates is a whole different issue).
Actually, I think the Electoral College could work the same way in theory. As I understand it, certain states require voting along the lines of the way the people in the state voted, but not all of them do, and I don't know which do and which don't.
Actually, I think the Electoral College could work the same way in theory. As I understand it, certain states require voting along the lines of the way the people in the state voted, but not all of them do, and I don't know which do and which don't.
This is true, and it's happened. But such faithless electors are rare, and they've never decided an election (and if they did, that would probably provoke immediate reform of the system).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
@SC: At the risk of perhaps changing the subject too much, where is the line drawn? Both the right and left on the issue of PC have likely gone too far, but what part is correct?
(a) If you toss around insults based on race, sex, orientation, favorite Beatle, or anything else, then you're not viewing people with basic respect, and you're an ********.
(b) If you see insults everywhere because you assume that everyone is a racist sexist homophobic Beatlist (except you, of course), then you're not viewing people with basic respect, and you're an ********.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
There are 4 ways to become a delegate for the republican party:
1. Get elected on a primary ballot.
2. State's elected leadership can choose delegates.
3. Receive a majority vote at a state republican convention or congressional district convention.
4. Become the state party chair, or be elected to be one of two of your state's representatives to the RNC. (3 positions per state, these are the super delegates. They can vote any direction they want. States can lose these during an election year if they violate party rules.)
5. Because, lol, there's always a 5. State RNC's can choose any other method of selection so long as it doesn't violate the rules.
Delegates are elected to pick the candidate their state voted for. They must vote for that candidate if the candidate is still in the race during the first round of voting. Note, that means they get free choice if the candidate they were supposed to vote for dropped out. Super delegates, again, can vote for everyone. If no candidate gets the required number of votes it becomes a free for all. Since local districts, states, and party leaders now choose delegates (and the presidential candidate veto was eliminated (candidates could veto the election of a delegate historically if they thought that person might not actually vote for them)) the second round of voting is essentially election by party representation. It's a republic system like the electoral college.
===
The rules now say that if you don't vote as your state voted in the first round, then you resign and your vote is recorded as the state voted. Basically, so long as there are state laws on the books, you can't back stab. But, I don't know how many states don't have those laws.
All of them if memory serves me. While not in the interest of the party it is in the interest of the states.
I'm really unclear whether this guy is just a nutball who managed to sneak his way through the Virgin Islands primary, or a serious player who could orchestrate a contested convention in the event Trump doesn't get enough votes to win on the first ballot.
(a) If you toss around insults based on race, sex, orientation, favorite Beatle, or anything else, then you're not viewing people with basic respect, and you're an ********.
(b) If you see insults everywhere because you assume that everyone is a racist sexist homophobic Beatlist (except you, of course), then you're not viewing people with basic respect, and you're an ********.
Solid guidelines. If everyone could adopt these terms it would be a better world
So, Trump cancelled an event in Chicago for "security concerns" when large numbers of protesters showed up. After that announcement, supporters and protesters started fighting, and people have been injured. Wow, the violence is really escalating...
Trumps rally is shutdown by violent protesters. Honestly this probably helps Trump. It makes it look like he was right all along. It also highlights how divided the country is and how left behind white voters feel.
Trumps rally is shutdown by violent protesters. Honestly this probably helps Trump. It makes it look like he was right all along. It also highlights how divided the country is and how left behind white voters feel.
This bolsters Trump in the eyes of his followers and some people who were leaning his way. But if this keeps escalating, his opponents will be emboldened and independents will frown on the violence, regardless of who started it.
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word). Do you have reliable sources?
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word).
Yeah, as far as I can tell, all the violence is directed at the protesters, and with Trump'sfullencouragement.
.........................
REALLY!?!?! This is HIS FAULT? His supporters are getting assaulted, cops are getting assault, an ambulance got shot at in a drive by, his supporters are being stopped from leaving by protesters and this is his fault?
I need to get off social media tonight. I've already seen the GOP blamed, Trump blamed, his supporters blamed and the police blamed. Not a single person blaming the violent group of 'tolerant' liberal protesters who started all this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Trumps rally is shutdown by violent protesters. Honestly this probably helps Trump. It makes it look like he was right all along. It also highlights how divided the country is and how left behind white voters feel.
This bolsters Trump in the eyes of his followers and some people who were leaning his way. But if this keeps escalating, his opponents will be emboldened and independents will frown on the violence, regardless of who started it.
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word). Do you have reliable sources?
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Trumps rally is shutdown by violent protesters. Honestly this probably helps Trump. It makes it look like he was right all along. It also highlights how divided the country is and how left behind white voters feel.
This bolsters Trump in the eyes of his followers and some people who were leaning his way. But if this keeps escalating, his opponents will be emboldened and independents will frown on the violence, regardless of who started it.
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word). Do you have reliable sources?
That is not an answer to the request for a source that the protesters did anything, just that a cop was injured. Do you have something that like... shows the start of the riot or something? Maybe a couple first hand witnesses?
Also, this tweet doesn't explain who hurt the cop. For all we know, he was hit by a car. Or a bear. Maybe a wildcat came into the city and mauled him. My point is, this isn't a reliable source of anything.
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
I'm working on finding a better source. There's A LOT to go through right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word).
Yeah, as far as I can tell, all the violence is directed at the protesters, and with Trump'sfullencouragement.
.........................
REALLY!?!?! This is HIS FAULT? His supporters are getting assaulted, cops are getting assault, an ambulance got shot at in a drive by, his supporters are being stopped from leaving by protesters and this is his fault?
I need to get off social media tonight. I've already seen the GOP blamed, Trump blamed, his supporters blamed and the police blamed. Not a single person blaming the violent group of 'tolerant' liberal protesters who started all this.
Well, Trump has said things that one could certainly interpret as promoting violence. The spoken desire to punch a protester and an offer to pay the legal fees of supporters who are charged with assault. After several weeks of this, one could argue that escalating violence was foreseeable based solely on Trump's words.
The thing is, Trump didn't even need to say those things to get his point across. He could have promoted his wall and Mexico paying for said wall without expressing a desire to punch protesters himself. Trump could have ignored the incidents where people were removed without comment. Or he could have asked his supporters to not touch or yell at the protesters as they were being removed. Instead, he said things that many could reasonably interpret as an invitation to do violence. So yes, I think some blame can go to Trump.
However, with regards to tonight's incident, it might be possible to lay the blame on the protesters. Assuming all your sources are accurate, its not okay to throw rocks and bottles at anyone, regardless of the reasoning. It's just hard to believe that 8 years ago, it seemed we were going in a positive direction and now...well now we have the beginnings of an open riot.
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word).
Yeah, as far as I can tell, all the violence is directed at the protesters, and with Trump'sfullencouragement.
.........................
REALLY!?!?! This is HIS FAULT? His supporters are getting assaulted, cops are getting assault, an ambulance got shot at in a drive by, his supporters are being stopped from leaving by protesters and this is his fault?
I need to get off social media tonight. I've already seen the GOP blamed, Trump blamed, his supporters blamed and the police blamed. Not a single person blaming the violent group of 'tolerant' liberal protesters who started all this.
Well, Trump has said things that one could certainly interpret as promoting violence. The spoken desire to punch a protester and an offer to pay the legal fees of supporters who are charged with assault. After several weeks of this, one could argue that escalating violence was foreseeable based solely on Trump's words.
The thing is, Trump didn't even need to say those things to get his point across. He could have promoted his wall and Mexico paying for said wall without expressing a desire to punch protesters himself. Trump could have ignored the incidents where people were removed without comment. Or he could have asked his supporters to not touch or yell at the protesters as they were being removed. Instead, he said things that many could reasonably interpret as an invitation to do violence. So yes, I think some blame can go to Trump.
However, with regards to tonight's incident, it might be possible to lay the blame on the protesters. Assuming all your sources are accurate, its not okay to throw rocks and bottles at anyone, regardless of the reasoning. It's just hard to believe that 8 years ago, it seemed we were going in a positive direction and now...well now we have the beginnings of an open riot.
This is going to cause his support to grow quite a bit. What a massive failure. The worst part is reading the second eye witness account I posted and hearing about scared young people hiding in parking garages and getting assaulted just for supporting a presidential candidate. You can put some blame on Trump, and I don't think that's unfair to do so. But, to blame him entirely for the events of tonight is like blaming a car for running someone over and the driver having no fault. This is honestly just incredibly depressing. I fear for his life if he gets elected, and I'm not one to fear for the life of a billionaire with top notch security. This is just insane.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word).
Yeah, as far as I can tell, all the violence is directed at the protesters, and with Trump'sfullencouragement.
.........................
REALLY!?!?! This is HIS FAULT? His supporters are getting assaulted, cops are getting assault, an ambulance got shot at in a drive by, his supporters are being stopped from leaving by protesters and this is his fault?
I need to get off social media tonight. I've already seen the GOP blamed, Trump blamed, his supporters blamed and the police blamed. Not a single person blaming the violent group of 'tolerant' liberal protesters who started all this.
Well, Trump has said things that one could certainly interpret as promoting violence. The spoken desire to punch a protester and an offer to pay the legal fees of supporters who are charged with assault. After several weeks of this, one could argue that escalating violence was foreseeable based solely on Trump's words.
The thing is, Trump didn't even need to say those things to get his point across. He could have promoted his wall and Mexico paying for said wall without expressing a desire to punch protesters himself. Trump could have ignored the incidents where people were removed without comment. Or he could have asked his supporters to not touch or yell at the protesters as they were being removed. Instead, he said things that many could reasonably interpret as an invitation to do violence. So yes, I think some blame can go to Trump.
However, with regards to tonight's incident, it might be possible to lay the blame on the protesters. Assuming all your sources are accurate, its not okay to throw rocks and bottles at anyone, regardless of the reasoning. It's just hard to believe that 8 years ago, it seemed we were going in a positive direction and now...well now we have the beginnings of an open riot.
This is going to cause his support to grow quite a bit. What a massive failure. The worst part is reading the second eye witness account I posted and hearing about scared young people hiding in parking garages and getting assaulted just for supporting a presidential candidate. You can put some blame on Trump, and I don't think that's unfair to do so. But, to blame him entirely for the events of tonight is like blaming a car for running someone over and the driver having no fault. This is honestly just incredibly depressing. I fear for his life if he gets elected, and I'm not one to fear for the life of a billionaire with top notch security. This is just insane.
No, based on available evidence (although they all come from Trump supporters; I would like to see police or secret service reports), protesters seem to have instigated tonight's violence. But what about past protests, where the protesters were only a single person or a handful of people? Is there evidence that protesters were violent before tonight?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
At the risk of continuously sounding like a doomsayer, I just finished an article a the Koch Brothers pretty much saying that there is no one left they would be willing to spend money on (if the Republican Establishment had some sort of leadership council, these guys would be on it). How badly does this matter to Rubio, or is too late to really affect what is going to happen (Id est, Rubio isn't going anywhere anyway)?
@SC: At the risk of perhaps changing the subject too much, where is the line drawn? Both the right and left on the issue of PC have likely gone too far, but what part is correct?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Who selects the delegates? Are they chosen by the candidates or by the state parties? ie are all the Trump delegates Trump supporters or some party schmucks required to vote for Trump on the first ballot.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't know.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
(b) If you see insults everywhere because you assume that everyone is a racist sexist homophobic Beatlist (except you, of course), then you're not viewing people with basic respect, and you're an ********.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
All of them if memory serves me. While not in the interest of the party it is in the interest of the states.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/11/uncommitted-gop-strategists-win-virgin-islands-contest-denying-delegates-to-cruz-and-trump/
Yob, the guy in the article, is the author of this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Outsiders-Contested-Republican-Convention/dp/0692630163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457736589&sr=8-1&keywords=John Yob
I'm really unclear whether this guy is just a nutball who managed to sneak his way through the Virgin Islands primary, or a serious player who could orchestrate a contested convention in the event Trump doesn't get enough votes to win on the first ballot.
Solid guidelines. If everyone could adopt these terms it would be a better world
Also lol @ "beatlist"
This bolsters Trump in the eyes of his followers and some people who were leaning his way. But if this keeps escalating, his opponents will be emboldened and independents will frown on the violence, regardless of who started it.
Also, I've never seen any evidence that the protesters are violent (other than Trump's word). Do you have reliable sources?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
.........................
REALLY!?!?! This is HIS FAULT? His supporters are getting assaulted, cops are getting assault, an ambulance got shot at in a drive by, his supporters are being stopped from leaving by protesters and this is his fault?
I need to get off social media tonight. I've already seen the GOP blamed, Trump blamed, his supporters blamed and the police blamed. Not a single person blaming the violent group of 'tolerant' liberal protesters who started all this.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
https://twitter.com/cbschicago/status/708472522828697600/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
That is not an answer to the request for a source that the protesters did anything, just that a cop was injured. Do you have something that like... shows the start of the riot or something? Maybe a couple first hand witnesses?
Also, this tweet doesn't explain who hurt the cop. For all we know, he was hit by a car. Or a bear. Maybe a wildcat came into the city and mauled him. My point is, this isn't a reliable source of anything.
This is an eye witness account on Reddit. Take what you want from it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4a23qm/i_was_at_the_rally_in_chicago_today_let_me_break/
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Thank you.
He does indicate that protesters started it. He also seems biased, but hey, that's no reason to completely disregard his testimony.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Much better and more detailed eye witness account. Sticked by the moderators. Note the image at the bottom.
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4a2bu9/what_really_happened_at_the_chicago_rally_my/
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Thanks again for going through the effort. I'm at work.
Well, Trump has said things that one could certainly interpret as promoting violence. The spoken desire to punch a protester and an offer to pay the legal fees of supporters who are charged with assault. After several weeks of this, one could argue that escalating violence was foreseeable based solely on Trump's words.
The thing is, Trump didn't even need to say those things to get his point across. He could have promoted his wall and Mexico paying for said wall without expressing a desire to punch protesters himself. Trump could have ignored the incidents where people were removed without comment. Or he could have asked his supporters to not touch or yell at the protesters as they were being removed. Instead, he said things that many could reasonably interpret as an invitation to do violence. So yes, I think some blame can go to Trump.
However, with regards to tonight's incident, it might be possible to lay the blame on the protesters. Assuming all your sources are accurate, its not okay to throw rocks and bottles at anyone, regardless of the reasoning. It's just hard to believe that 8 years ago, it seemed we were going in a positive direction and now...well now we have the beginnings of an open riot.
This is going to cause his support to grow quite a bit. What a massive failure. The worst part is reading the second eye witness account I posted and hearing about scared young people hiding in parking garages and getting assaulted just for supporting a presidential candidate. You can put some blame on Trump, and I don't think that's unfair to do so. But, to blame him entirely for the events of tonight is like blaming a car for running someone over and the driver having no fault. This is honestly just incredibly depressing. I fear for his life if he gets elected, and I'm not one to fear for the life of a billionaire with top notch security. This is just insane.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
No, based on available evidence (although they all come from Trump supporters; I would like to see police or secret service reports), protesters seem to have instigated tonight's violence. But what about past protests, where the protesters were only a single person or a handful of people? Is there evidence that protesters were violent before tonight?