Do you think that the moral climate of America has improved or declined over the past 50 years? Is our morality actually evolving, or is it "devolving?" Or is the reality a good deal muddier than that?
Some arguments for a better moral climate:
Civil-rights movements have made absolutely tremendous strides over the past several decades. Fifty years ago, the election of Barack Obama would've been wholly inconceivable. Systemic discrimination based on race, ethnicity, sex or creed has been stamped out. The movement for gay marriage continues to gain traction. We continue to grow nearer to the highly moral ideal of our nation's founding, articulated so eloquently by MLK, that men (and women) should be judged "not by the color of their skin (or by their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation), but by the content of their character."
Similarly, advances in science and psychology, coupled with increased social sensitivity, have led to much more humane and dignified treatment of people who are disabled or suffering from mental illnesses.
People have become more environmentally conscious, accepting the reality that human actions can and do have a profound impact on the Earth -- and, more importantly, that we have a responsibility to be conscientious stewards of this planet, and not its despoilers.
Some arguments for a worse moral climate:
The sexual revolution, Roe v. Wade, and the institution of "no-fault divorce," while arguably all good developments individually, have collectively (and with the aid of many other, lesser factors) created a cultural climate that regards the sexual act as something that can exist quite independently of "family," and family as something that can be dismantled or disintegrated at will. Consequently, we are in a situation where many people think that the pursuit of their own personal pleasure or "fulfillment" (the latter word sounds nicer) takes precedent over the duty to be a parent to children that they have conceived. Given that psychiatrists are in general agreement that divorce is a greater trauma for children even than the death of a parent, it should not be surprising that with increased rates of divorce, the rate of teenage suicide tripled between 1960 and 1990. (Between 1990 and 2003, it declined steadily, as anti-depressant drugs came on the market and began to be prescribed to troubled youth.)
There is a disturbing glut of lawyers in this country now, as more and more people over the years have filed (and won) lawsuits when they became injured as the result of their own stupidity. Seriously: does a coffee cup really need to tell us, "Warning: contents may be HOT"? Who the **** knowingly orders cold coffee? In any case, there is a disconcerting victim subculture in America today that wasn't always there... way too many people who think that they are not responsible for their problems or their failings. "I had a crappy childhood; I have bad genes; 'the man' is keeping me down; I can't help it, I have an addiction" -- such excuses and more are offered in defense of indefensible actions. And too many people are too complicit in enabling such behavior.
Then too there is the general coarsening of culture: the dismissive attitude towards "sex, drugs and violence" figuring as the heart of popular entertainment. Case in point: Family Guy, which airs during prime time (and has a cartoon format appealing to children), is filled with no end of jokes about bestiality, pedophilia and incest, to say nothing of wanton, graphic violence, plenty of alcohol and drug abuse, and basically every instance of foul language imaginable shy of **** and ****. And the show was cancelled at one point, but ressurected due to popular demand. What exactly that says about us, I'm not sure; but it's probably not a good thing.
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There's lots more that could be said on either side, obviously. But what do you think? Is America more moral now, or less, than we were half a century ago?
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
If you are equating "moral" with "puritan," then obviously it hasn't "improved."
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Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
The sexual revolution, Roe v. Wade, and the institution of "no-fault divorce," while arguably all good developments individually, have collectively (and with the aid of many other, lesser factors) created a cultural climate that regards the sexual act as something that can exist quite independently of "family," and family as something that can be dismantled or disintegrated at will. Consequently, we are in a situation where many people think that the pursuit of their own personal pleasure or "fulfillment" (the latter word sounds nicer) takes precedent over the duty to be a parent to children that they have conceived. Given that psychiatrists are in general agreement that divorce is a greater trauma for children even than the death of a parent, it should not be surprising that with increased rates of divorce, the rate of teenage suicide tripled between 1960 and 1990. (Between 1990 and 2003, it declined steadily, as anti-depressant drugs came on the market and began to be prescribed to troubled youth.)
There is a disturbing glut of lawyers in this country now, as more and more people over the years have filed (and won) lawsuits when they became injured as the result of their own stupidity. Seriously: does a coffee cup really need to tell us, "Warning: contents may be HOT"? Who the **** knowingly orders cold coffee? In any case, there is a disconcerting victim subculture in America today that wasn't always there... way too many people who think that they are not responsible for their problems or their failings. "I had a crappy childhood; I have bad genes; 'the man' is keeping me down; I can't help it, I have an addiction" -- such excuses and more are offered in defense of indefensible actions. And too many people are too complicit in enabling such behavior.
Then too there is the general coarsening of culture: the dismissive attitude towards "sex, drugs and violence" figuring as the heart of popular entertainment. Case in point: Family Guy, which airs during prime time (and has a cartoon format appealing to children), is filled with no end of jokes about bestiality, pedophilia and incest, to say nothing of wanton, graphic violence, plenty of alcohol and drug abuse, and basically every instance of foul language imaginable shy of **** and ****. And the show was cancelled at one point, but ressurected due to popular demand. What exactly that says about us, I'm not sure; but it's probably not a good thing.
this, emphasis mine
I remember my dad telling me about how when he was a kid they would leave the front door unlocked, or that he could ride his bike a considerable distance in Cleveland without his Mom and Dad worrying he'd be kidnapped, raped, etc. Granted parents have certainly become more overprotective, but to a large degree its justified in this day and age.
I think that the "worse" argument is stronger at the moment as society has clung to the "me" mentality even when it comes to community. I doubt it could truly be avoided, but people have a much stronger sense of entitlement now than in previous generations.
The American Dream has gone from working hard for a modest life to winning American Idol and landing that big record deal you deserve in a seemingly short timespan.
cultural climate that regards the sexual act as something that can exist quite independently of "family,"
It can, and with modern contraceptives and education bachelor-celibacy has substantially diminished utility. Not that at any point in human history were people not screwing like rabbits.
I can see the argument that we are becoming less sensible and reasonable, that 60 years ago, everyone was just as friendly as our grandparents are now, but no, people have always generally been stupid and narrow minded and selfish to the point of harming society (the fact that people can sue corporations for silly things like spilt coffee speaks not of our pettiness, which has likely always existed, but of the strides made within or legal system).
Governments seem to be becoming more enlightened; civil liberties are rising steadily (on average); to me things seem to be either the same or better than they were in the past.
That really depends on what behaviours you define as moral and immoral. Personally I was really dismayed by the immoral behaviour of the citizens of California who voted against same sex marriage.
BTW people really should read up on the MacDonalds coffee case before using it as an example. If it was just a case of a woman spilling coffee on herself it would have never gonne to trial. However, it came out that MacDonalds knew that their coffee was way hotter than people normally expect and were repeatedly warned by health officials that their coffee was causing dangerous burns. They were trounced at trial because they were deemed to have ignored their duty to their customers and willfully sold a dangerous product without warning their customers of the fact.
This is quite possibly the first time I have ever heard people come to the defense of the McDonald's coffee case. It's not like the McLibel case people; it was a complete garbage case. not only did the cups already have warning labels (they were just "too small), the lady removed the lid while only holding the cup with her legs. The previosu suits thing is bunk too, since she didn't get what her medical costs were, she got nearly 60 times the medical costs in the reduced settlement. Complete garbage. The only thing that was wrong about the case was McDonald's initial offer of $800 to satisfy the lady.
Which brings up a great example why things are worse: corporations. It's not the actual idea of corporations, but the fact that corporations have gained the rights of a human being in the eyes of the law. It's an issue.
Personally, I think morality on the whole has seen a slight bettering; but great progress in certain areas has been marred by regress in other areas. I think that each age excels in certain virtues and struggles with others (even while the steady advance of human knowledge means that we now know better than to do some things, like burning "witches", that in a bygone age may have been regarded as moral imperatives).
It's like a thing that C.S. Lewis wrote in The Problem of Pain, in regards to the (as Christians see it) perpetually murky moral state of humanity: "From considering how the cruelty of our ancestors looks to us, you may get some idea of how our softness, worldliness, and timidity would have looked to them, and hence how both must look to God."
RE: Sexual morality: my big concern is that the very idea of "casual sex" is an oxymoron. Nothing that has the power to affect people so profoundly, in ways positive and negative, physical and emotional, can ever be casual. We can try to engage in NSA (no strings attached) sex, but it involves a calculated risk. I'd much rather we be able to talk about sex openly than be prudish about it; but it seems that our version of "opening up" has just entailed becoming increasingly jocular about sex and dismissive of its power and its perils.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
I don't think that morality has gotten "better" or "worse" in America, I think that, simply, it has changed. That, to me, is not something to be seen as good or bad, but simply something that is. Morals and cultures change over time. We'll always think that some morals of our forefathers are backwards and illogical and that others are something we should strive for. I just don't think that such a change in morality is something to think of in a "good" vs. "bad" sort of way.
This is quite possibly the first time I have ever heard people come to the defense of the McDonald's coffee case. It's not like the McLibel case people; it was a complete garbage case. not only did the cups already have warning labels (they were just "too small), the lady removed the lid while only holding the cup with her legs. The previosu suits thing is bunk too, since she didn't get what her medical costs were, she got nearly 60 times the medical costs in the reduced settlement. Complete garbage. The only thing that was wrong about the case was McDonald's initial offer of $800 to satisfy the lady.
Which brings up a great example why things are worse: corporations. It's not the actual idea of corporations, but the fact that corporations have gained the rights of a human being in the eyes of the law. It's an issue.
What you don't know about that case could fill alot of coffee cups, apparently.
A)There was no warning on the cup.
B)McDonalds had received numerous warnings from the FDA because they were serving their coffee too hot. Numerous as in hundreds. But they just ignored them. They served their coffee 40 degrees over the necessary temperature, so that they would have to make new coffee with significantly less frequency.
C)The lady had third(or possibly) second degree burns on her legs from the coffee.
I'm sorry, but this is patently ridiculous. If McDonalds had heeded the FDAs warnings, none of it would have happened. The fine that they were charged was very obviously meant as more of a wake-up call than anything else. And if they weren't one of the greediest, cheapiest, trashiest corporations in history(until Wal-Mart showed them how that bit is REALLY done), they could have avoided it all. They were made an example of, and rightfully so. Especially considering that it is undeniable that said example worked.
I agree that the real problem is that corporations can be treated as individuals. But I have no sympathy whatsoever for McDonalds. That corporation is the second worst ever.
As for 'casual sex'. Sex only affects people 'so profoundly' in our society, because we have made it that way. In other cultures(particularly Europe), it is signifcantly less of a big deal. And, not at all surprisingly, they don't have nearly the problems with teenage pregnancy, STDs, etc that we do.
This is quite possibly the first time I have ever heard people come to the defense of the McDonald's coffee case. It's not like the McLibel case people; it was a complete garbage case. not only did the cups already have warning labels (they were just "too small), the lady removed the lid while only holding the cup with her legs. The previosu suits thing is bunk too, since she didn't get what her medical costs were, she got nearly 60 times the medical costs in the reduced settlement. Complete garbage. The only thing that was wrong about the case was McDonald's initial offer of $800 to satisfy the lady.
The big award was punitive damages which were awarded because the McDonald's people pissed off the jury that much. They had prior warning of the problem after the local hospital's burn unit called to complain about the cases they had of people receiving serious burns due to the coffee. In essence they knew that they were selling coffee that was non-standard due to its temperature and thus dangerous. They had a duty to properly warn their customers of this but did not do so even after becoming aware of multiple incidents. So for being an uncaring corporation that was willing to ignore the safety of its customer to make more money the jury threw the book at them.
Which brings up a great example why things are worse: corporations. It's not the actual idea of corporations, but the fact that corporations have gained the rights of a human being in the eyes of the law. It's an issue.
This.
While greed has always been around, wanton greed has become more and more acceptable. The lengths at which individuals and corporations both go to get slightly ahead is just disgusting, and not many people seem to give it more of a passing thought; it's simply accepted.
I also feel that the word "honor" is slowly losing any relevant meaning in our languages, outside of the definitions about accolades, or holding up ones end of a bargain. It may not sound like much, but to me, the implications are staggering.
Quote from Cyan »
There is no way that Africa is a relevant reference, they are about as far as is humanly possible from being a civilized society.
I've been to Africa. Chefchaouen was one of the most beautiful cities I've experienced.
(use google, it is breathtaking)
Let's please keep the thread on topic. If you wish to discuss the merits of the McDonald's coffee lawsuit, please start a separate thread.
Regarding the OP:
Personally, I think Walt Whitman put it best:
"There was never any more inception than there is now,
Nor any more youth or age than there is now,
And will never be any more perfection than there is now,
Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now."
Basically, I think as society changes each generation will always feel their vision of morality has been lost as a new generation chooses their own morals to live by. Certainly those various changes can be qualified as good or bad, but I'm not sure you could ever truly quantify them and indentify a net gain or loss. Especially considering individual moral choices usually have both positive and negative aspects to them.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
Sorry about going off topic with the McDonald's case discussion but to me it represents a troubling problem with discussions on morality and society. Too often people will use a specific example or scenario to illustrate how society is degrading and personal responsibility is disapeared. Yet they often only look of the surface of the case and fail to comprehend the complexity behind it and what really caused the incident in question.
No situation exists in a vacuum. Decisions about morality and right vs wrong can't be based on isolated incidents but one has to look at a bigger picture to determine what is really going on. Too many people prefer to just look at the surface and make that fit into their existing worldview. As such they will draw the wrong conclusions and then act in a way not supported by the facts.
Voted: Option 4:
It doen't really matter becuase morality is too subjective, ambiguous, and arbitrary anyway.
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Basically, I think as society changes each generation will always feel their vision of morality has been lost as a new generation chooses their own morals to live by. Certainly those various changes can be qualified as good or bad, but I'm not sure you could ever truly quantify them and indentify a net gain or loss.
I think you're right in terms of how people perceive themselves and their own moral compasses... the great majority of people in any given age would consider themselves "basically good." But for those of us who subscribe to moral objectivism, it should be possible, given sufficient data, to say with a good deal of confidence that one cultural milieu is morally superior or inferior to another. Sometimes the matter will seem inconclusive. At other times, as when comparing Germany today to Germany 70 years ago, it will be painfully clear.
Quote from Shaharazad »
I also feel that the word "honor" is slowly losing any relevant meaning in our languages, outside of the definitions about accolades, or holding up ones end of a bargain. It may not sound like much, but to me, the implications are staggering.
I feel similarly. The last time I heard anyone described as "an honorable man" was when I was watching The Return of the King. It's like, honor is a nice thing to have if you can get it, but it's basically for people who don't care about making their mark or getting ahead in the world. Nice guys finish last, chivalry is dead, etc.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
I grew up in the era papaboyer refered to. We were fed in the morning..pushed out the door and not expected back till dinner or dark, which ever came first. We rode miles on bikes never worrying about abduction or sexual abuse. Front doors were never locked and certain houses on every block were marked with cards in the windows if you were in troble or needed something. Things were simpler and safer then. Children respected adults, it didnt matter if the child knew the adult or not. In todays world kids barely respect themselves let alone anyone else.
I personally think as a society we have lost some of the morals we had not too long ago but its not bad in all cases. The bad things are the lack of parenting being done today ( kids getting away with anything) and people not being responsible for what they do. They go hand in hand in my mind. If you dont have a parent to guide a child they dont know the finer points of being a responsible person later in life.
For my point of view everything has gone worst. I had it with people not taking responsibility for their actions and the lack of social consciousness. Everywhere I hear I I I I I I I.
I'm also really worried about the future in a world where parents don't want to take the time to educate their children. If you don't have the time to raise a child then don't have one!!!
I'm also worried about people wanting a million child. How the heck are they going to give the attention one child needs when you have a million children?!?!
I had it with the bureaucracy! Bureaucracy is expensive and time consuming and is the result of egoist people that abuse the system. Why do honest people have to live with all those restrictions?!?!
I also had it with people abusing other people's beliefs and I had it with cowardly people that know better on how to do things and are too scared to do anything about it.
See the Is!!! I've become what I detest. *hangs from a rope --> metaphorically*
But I'm glad of what I have today and that I have the time and resources to do this that I'm doing now. In other times I would have been hunting for food or building a shelter. In other times priority was survival. In these times we have the privileged of discussing these matters. From knowing what we were and what we are and what we can become and that there's hope I'm thankful. For knowing that there's still consciousness in people like you that are discussing these matters I'm thankful. Even when I see everything worst I know there's still hope and I'm thankful for having this life.
Even though... I'm really pessimistic and see mindless bots in the future.
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Latest News:
- Lack of common sense is like the common flu.
As I don't see how puritan attitudes towards sex constitute anything close to morality, I vote improvement.
As I hold pretty much the exact opposite sentiment I vote the opposite.
I think the attempt to remove consequences from sexuality has resulted in a sharp decrease in morality.
I'd be really intersted in seeing a study of some sort which showed either:
Rates of people having sex outside of marriage have increased sharply / at all or showing that the rate has not increased, but instead it was just something that nobody talked about.
Because, having done admittedly zero research, I'm inclined to believe that the "everyone was having sex before marriage all along, it just wasn't out in the open" argument is a load of crap. I agree that some people were, but I don't think it was nearly the magnitude that it is today.
People have been having this same "What's with these kids today/society's going down the toilet/it was so much better in my day" argument for literally thousands of years. If the curmudgeons of every generation had been correct, you'd think we'd all be crazed, feral beasts by now.
Religious faith is at an all time low.
People have stopped giving the respect due to priests, veterans, politicians and teachers for their social standing and position.
People question authority figures a lot more.
They have stopped thinking it is important to keep sexual taboos: homosexuality, abortion, serial monogamy, cohabitation and sex before marriage or even without any plans to get married, these things are now all accepted.
Women have gone into the work force and stopped fulfilling their traditional roles as caretakers and stay at home moms.
More and more there is an idea being spread that a comfortable lifestyle shouldn't be the reward for a life of hard work, but is in fact a human right that one deserves from birth.
I think that we are making great strides in some areas, and falling back in others. Unfortuanley, we get people who follow the grayest edges of the law to determine what is moral, and not what is right. Scary.
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Some arguments for a better moral climate:
Civil-rights movements have made absolutely tremendous strides over the past several decades. Fifty years ago, the election of Barack Obama would've been wholly inconceivable. Systemic discrimination based on race, ethnicity, sex or creed has been stamped out. The movement for gay marriage continues to gain traction. We continue to grow nearer to the highly moral ideal of our nation's founding, articulated so eloquently by MLK, that men (and women) should be judged "not by the color of their skin (or by their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation), but by the content of their character."
Similarly, advances in science and psychology, coupled with increased social sensitivity, have led to much more humane and dignified treatment of people who are disabled or suffering from mental illnesses.
People have become more environmentally conscious, accepting the reality that human actions can and do have a profound impact on the Earth -- and, more importantly, that we have a responsibility to be conscientious stewards of this planet, and not its despoilers.
Some arguments for a worse moral climate:
The sexual revolution, Roe v. Wade, and the institution of "no-fault divorce," while arguably all good developments individually, have collectively (and with the aid of many other, lesser factors) created a cultural climate that regards the sexual act as something that can exist quite independently of "family," and family as something that can be dismantled or disintegrated at will. Consequently, we are in a situation where many people think that the pursuit of their own personal pleasure or "fulfillment" (the latter word sounds nicer) takes precedent over the duty to be a parent to children that they have conceived. Given that psychiatrists are in general agreement that divorce is a greater trauma for children even than the death of a parent, it should not be surprising that with increased rates of divorce, the rate of teenage suicide tripled between 1960 and 1990. (Between 1990 and 2003, it declined steadily, as anti-depressant drugs came on the market and began to be prescribed to troubled youth.)
There is a disturbing glut of lawyers in this country now, as more and more people over the years have filed (and won) lawsuits when they became injured as the result of their own stupidity. Seriously: does a coffee cup really need to tell us, "Warning: contents may be HOT"? Who the **** knowingly orders cold coffee? In any case, there is a disconcerting victim subculture in America today that wasn't always there... way too many people who think that they are not responsible for their problems or their failings. "I had a crappy childhood; I have bad genes; 'the man' is keeping me down; I can't help it, I have an addiction" -- such excuses and more are offered in defense of indefensible actions. And too many people are too complicit in enabling such behavior.
Then too there is the general coarsening of culture: the dismissive attitude towards "sex, drugs and violence" figuring as the heart of popular entertainment. Case in point: Family Guy, which airs during prime time (and has a cartoon format appealing to children), is filled with no end of jokes about bestiality, pedophilia and incest, to say nothing of wanton, graphic violence, plenty of alcohol and drug abuse, and basically every instance of foul language imaginable shy of **** and ****. And the show was cancelled at one point, but ressurected due to popular demand. What exactly that says about us, I'm not sure; but it's probably not a good thing.
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There's lots more that could be said on either side, obviously. But what do you think? Is America more moral now, or less, than we were half a century ago?
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
this, emphasis mine
I remember my dad telling me about how when he was a kid they would leave the front door unlocked, or that he could ride his bike a considerable distance in Cleveland without his Mom and Dad worrying he'd be kidnapped, raped, etc. Granted parents have certainly become more overprotective, but to a large degree its justified in this day and age.
The American Dream has gone from working hard for a modest life to winning American Idol and landing that big record deal you deserve in a seemingly short timespan.
I can see the argument that we are becoming less sensible and reasonable, that 60 years ago, everyone was just as friendly as our grandparents are now, but no, people have always generally been stupid and narrow minded and selfish to the point of harming society (the fact that people can sue corporations for silly things like spilt coffee speaks not of our pettiness, which has likely always existed, but of the strides made within or legal system).
Governments seem to be becoming more enlightened; civil liberties are rising steadily (on average); to me things seem to be either the same or better than they were in the past.
BTW people really should read up on the MacDonalds coffee case before using it as an example. If it was just a case of a woman spilling coffee on herself it would have never gonne to trial. However, it came out that MacDonalds knew that their coffee was way hotter than people normally expect and were repeatedly warned by health officials that their coffee was causing dangerous burns. They were trounced at trial because they were deemed to have ignored their duty to their customers and willfully sold a dangerous product without warning their customers of the fact.
Which brings up a great example why things are worse: corporations. It's not the actual idea of corporations, but the fact that corporations have gained the rights of a human being in the eyes of the law. It's an issue.
It's like a thing that C.S. Lewis wrote in The Problem of Pain, in regards to the (as Christians see it) perpetually murky moral state of humanity: "From considering how the cruelty of our ancestors looks to us, you may get some idea of how our softness, worldliness, and timidity would have looked to them, and hence how both must look to God."
RE: Sexual morality: my big concern is that the very idea of "casual sex" is an oxymoron. Nothing that has the power to affect people so profoundly, in ways positive and negative, physical and emotional, can ever be casual. We can try to engage in NSA (no strings attached) sex, but it involves a calculated risk. I'd much rather we be able to talk about sex openly than be prudish about it; but it seems that our version of "opening up" has just entailed becoming increasingly jocular about sex and dismissive of its power and its perils.
What you don't know about that case could fill alot of coffee cups, apparently.
A)There was no warning on the cup.
B)McDonalds had received numerous warnings from the FDA because they were serving their coffee too hot. Numerous as in hundreds. But they just ignored them. They served their coffee 40 degrees over the necessary temperature, so that they would have to make new coffee with significantly less frequency.
C)The lady had third(or possibly) second degree burns on her legs from the coffee.
I'm sorry, but this is patently ridiculous. If McDonalds had heeded the FDAs warnings, none of it would have happened. The fine that they were charged was very obviously meant as more of a wake-up call than anything else. And if they weren't one of the greediest, cheapiest, trashiest corporations in history(until Wal-Mart showed them how that bit is REALLY done), they could have avoided it all. They were made an example of, and rightfully so. Especially considering that it is undeniable that said example worked.
I agree that the real problem is that corporations can be treated as individuals. But I have no sympathy whatsoever for McDonalds. That corporation is the second worst ever.
As for 'casual sex'. Sex only affects people 'so profoundly' in our society, because we have made it that way. In other cultures(particularly Europe), it is signifcantly less of a big deal. And, not at all surprisingly, they don't have nearly the problems with teenage pregnancy, STDs, etc that we do.
The big award was punitive damages which were awarded because the McDonald's people pissed off the jury that much. They had prior warning of the problem after the local hospital's burn unit called to complain about the cases they had of people receiving serious burns due to the coffee. In essence they knew that they were selling coffee that was non-standard due to its temperature and thus dangerous. They had a duty to properly warn their customers of this but did not do so even after becoming aware of multiple incidents. So for being an uncaring corporation that was willing to ignore the safety of its customer to make more money the jury threw the book at them.
This.
While greed has always been around, wanton greed has become more and more acceptable. The lengths at which individuals and corporations both go to get slightly ahead is just disgusting, and not many people seem to give it more of a passing thought; it's simply accepted.
I also feel that the word "honor" is slowly losing any relevant meaning in our languages, outside of the definitions about accolades, or holding up ones end of a bargain. It may not sound like much, but to me, the implications are staggering.
I've been to Africa. Chefchaouen was one of the most beautiful cities I've experienced.
(use google, it is breathtaking)
Regarding the OP:
Personally, I think Walt Whitman put it best:
"There was never any more inception than there is now,
Nor any more youth or age than there is now,
And will never be any more perfection than there is now,
Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now."
Basically, I think as society changes each generation will always feel their vision of morality has been lost as a new generation chooses their own morals to live by. Certainly those various changes can be qualified as good or bad, but I'm not sure you could ever truly quantify them and indentify a net gain or loss. Especially considering individual moral choices usually have both positive and negative aspects to them.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
No situation exists in a vacuum. Decisions about morality and right vs wrong can't be based on isolated incidents but one has to look at a bigger picture to determine what is really going on. Too many people prefer to just look at the surface and make that fit into their existing worldview. As such they will draw the wrong conclusions and then act in a way not supported by the facts.
It doen't really matter becuase morality is too subjective, ambiguous, and arbitrary anyway.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
I think you're right in terms of how people perceive themselves and their own moral compasses... the great majority of people in any given age would consider themselves "basically good." But for those of us who subscribe to moral objectivism, it should be possible, given sufficient data, to say with a good deal of confidence that one cultural milieu is morally superior or inferior to another. Sometimes the matter will seem inconclusive. At other times, as when comparing Germany today to Germany 70 years ago, it will be painfully clear.
I feel similarly. The last time I heard anyone described as "an honorable man" was when I was watching The Return of the King. It's like, honor is a nice thing to have if you can get it, but it's basically for people who don't care about making their mark or getting ahead in the world. Nice guys finish last, chivalry is dead, etc.
I think our changes in race issues alone show a clear moral improvement.
- Enslaught
I personally think as a society we have lost some of the morals we had not too long ago but its not bad in all cases. The bad things are the lack of parenting being done today ( kids getting away with anything) and people not being responsible for what they do. They go hand in hand in my mind. If you dont have a parent to guide a child they dont know the finer points of being a responsible person later in life.
I'm also really worried about the future in a world where parents don't want to take the time to educate their children. If you don't have the time to raise a child then don't have one!!!
I'm also worried about people wanting a million child. How the heck are they going to give the attention one child needs when you have a million children?!?!
I had it with the bureaucracy! Bureaucracy is expensive and time consuming and is the result of egoist people that abuse the system. Why do honest people have to live with all those restrictions?!?!
I also had it with people abusing other people's beliefs and I had it with cowardly people that know better on how to do things and are too scared to do anything about it.
See the Is!!! I've become what I detest. *hangs from a rope --> metaphorically*
But I'm glad of what I have today and that I have the time and resources to do this that I'm doing now. In other times I would have been hunting for food or building a shelter. In other times priority was survival. In these times we have the privileged of discussing these matters. From knowing what we were and what we are and what we can become and that there's hope I'm thankful. For knowing that there's still consciousness in people like you that are discussing these matters I'm thankful. Even when I see everything worst I know there's still hope and I'm thankful for having this life.
Even though... I'm really pessimistic and see mindless bots in the future.
- Lack of common sense is like the common flu.
Helping unknown people and getting flame by them.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/guasus_lot/m.html?category=19115&cmd=ViewItem&ih=002&item=120914914666&rd=1&sspagename=WDVW&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2562
My eBay Listings finishing in 15 minutes.
As I hold pretty much the exact opposite sentiment I vote the opposite.
I think the attempt to remove consequences from sexuality has resulted in a sharp decrease in morality.
I'd be really intersted in seeing a study of some sort which showed either:
Rates of people having sex outside of marriage have increased sharply / at all or showing that the rate has not increased, but instead it was just something that nobody talked about.
Because, having done admittedly zero research, I'm inclined to believe that the "everyone was having sex before marriage all along, it just wasn't out in the open" argument is a load of crap. I agree that some people were, but I don't think it was nearly the magnitude that it is today.
If mtv's "real world" is any indication, we are... (I kid, I kid, but there is some grain of truth to the joke).
People have stopped giving the respect due to priests, veterans, politicians and teachers for their social standing and position.
People question authority figures a lot more.
They have stopped thinking it is important to keep sexual taboos: homosexuality, abortion, serial monogamy, cohabitation and sex before marriage or even without any plans to get married, these things are now all accepted.
Women have gone into the work force and stopped fulfilling their traditional roles as caretakers and stay at home moms.
More and more there is an idea being spread that a comfortable lifestyle shouldn't be the reward for a life of hard work, but is in fact a human right that one deserves from birth.
Everything has *improved* so much!
Netdecking is Rightdecking
My latest data-driven Magic the Gathering strategy article
(TLDR: Analysis of the Valakut matchups. UB rising in the rankings. Aggro correspondingly taking a dive.)
Tribute to Dr. Jeebus
Not a little Sheeple.