the ability only check to see if the creature has all three when it resolves
I guess you're right. I mistakenly thought that flipping was a static ability waiting to be triggered. In fact, it's probably a part of the activated ability.
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As someone said already this is a timmy card. Which is sad it is just a little bit off from being a competitive card with it costing 3 and doing nothing for that 3 it more then likely would see any competitive play. Now in draft this card is the nuts. Also if it was a 0/4 defender unflipped it would prolly see stranded play.
Ironically i would like to see "shroud" used here, just that you have to target it with "shroud" last (and players will screw this up for sure).
Shroud would make it unable to have further targets on the creature period. When was the last time WotC designed something that needed to be expertly crafted? Hexproof makes it so you can have multiple Blueprints being constructed into their Dreadnaught forms without needing the timing to be precisely layered (Read: unfun). I love this card's design. Well done.
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Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
halo hunter can never kill baneslayer angel
Originally Posted by Jace, the Mindsculptor: 2/17
Oracle Rules text on Halo hunter from Gatherer:
When Halo Hunter enters the battlefield, destroy target Angel.
BSA is an angel, is it not??
Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
Oracle Rules text on Baneslayer Angel:
"Protection from Demons" means the following:
Baneslayer Angel can't be targeted by abilities from sources with the creature type Demon"
Shroud would make it unable to have further targets on the creature period. When was the last time WotC designed something that needed to be expertly crafted? Hexproof makes it so you can have multiple Blueprints being constructed into their Dreadnaught forms without needing the timing to be precisely layered (Read: unfun). I love this card's design. Well done.
Well flavourwise the blueprint could simply state an actual "construction plan" ; and if that says shroud last, than its shroud last (if you read the blueprint right, otherwise you screw up, which is the point of idea i had).
Right now, they might use hexproof everywhere anyway ; with the trend of "only upside" effects , as players did not enjoy drawback mechanics // anything must be somehow "obvisious" good.
I love the card, I love the flavor, but I do think it should be "if that creature has flying, trample, and hexproof, flip ~".
I don't like the sacrifice token thing, only because I like the idea of blueprints, then 'testing' the 'abilities' (flying, hexproof, etc.) on the creature. When they figure out the abilities, they create the dreadnought. Very cool.
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@TheOnlyOne: While i understand where you're coming from, i don't think cards need to be designed complex on purpose. There's really no reason to force players to order their activation in this way. It doesn't even really help players "learn" either, since most people won't ask for the specific order the abilities resolve. If they do, it'll simply be to catch the new player off guard, punishing them for a simple mistake that really doesn't make very much difference.
On top of that, shroud would have diminished the card's combo aspect, trading a lot of the card's appeal for a very small amount of skill testing.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Does no one see the issue with having an 8/8 by turn 4 that is damn near unstoppable? This is horrendously over powered, and trust me, if you checked out the print this wizards thread in the cube section, coming from me, you accomplished something.
I don't like this card at all, bad design, doesn't make sense at all as a flip card. Doesn't feel like a dreadnaught. And I have no clue why tolaria is mentioned it at all. Perhaps because its horribly broken.
I don't understand the real-life logic of this card.
So they target creatures with abilities to test out the plans? Once they do all three, then all of a sudden the blueprints become a huge dreadnought just like that?
I think it makes more sense if it still had some sort of cost to become the machine. For example, instead of flipping to a creature, it flips to an artifact with 6,T: put a token into play.
Again, remember that the art and name were applied to the card after effects were chosen. If the flavor is a little off, it's because this was a bottom-up design. (Or, whatever the opposite of a down town design is.)
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Does no one see the issue with having an 8/8 by turn 4 that is damn near unstoppable? This is horrendously over powered, and trust me, if you checked out the print this wizards thread in the cube section, coming from me, you accomplished something.
I don't like this card at all, bad design, doesn't make sense at all as a flip card. Doesn't feel like a dreadnaught. And I have no clue why tolaria is mentioned it at all. Perhaps because its horribly broken.
It seems about as powerful to me as the Deceiver Exarch/Splinter Twin combo, probably less so, depending on which creature you use. If it did end up too powerful you could easily balance it by making the ability sorcery-speed, for example.
I really like this card, and I never post on these threads. The power level, the combo possibilities, and the flavor all make a lot of sense. Well done
The idea is really nice. However, it should become a 9/9 instead of an 8/8 for number aesthetics.
It was originally a 9/9 when I posted the mechanic. But I eventually changed it to an 8/8 to lower the power level a bit. The mana and activation costs were decided after the mechanic was chosen.
Yeah I think I argued for 9/9 at one point, but it became 8/8 for whatever reason. PieInTheSky actually seems to have explained the flavor pretty well, for wondering what it is. I would think that it represents three big magical engines they are trying to connect. They either need a lot of mana to get the flows to merge, or a catalyst creature that "naturally" possesses those abilities can demonstrate the proper way to apply it, allowing them to make the correct adjustments and get it flying.
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At first I hated the card, awesome name, excellent flavor (I could see something similar printed by wizards), terribly overpowered card. Then I took a shower, came back and re-read it. I like more now, but I doubt this will ever see printing as is.
First, its too easy to flip. Flying and Lifelink are two pretty common keywords that appear together. As said before, turn 1/2 Vault Skirge, turn 3 Tolarian Blueprints, turn 4 bash for 9 in the air lifelink? Oh and don't bother using a removal spell, its hexproof.
If the abilities were more cross the color pie so it wouldn't be so easy to activate, and more rare generic keywords, I'd like it better. As it stands, simply too easy to abuse, and WAY overpowered to ever see print.
However, that said, insanely good Flavor, design and name, best I've seen in a while, but the numbers need tweaking Good job, good job.
I'd leave the unflipped alone. But the flop should say
Tolarian Prototype
"Artifact - Equipment"
Living Weapon
3: Equip
Equipped creature gets +6/+6 and gains haste, deathtouch, and "3:Regenerate". When equipped creature is put into a graveyard from play flip Tolarian Armor.
--------------------------
Gives it more balance since it's a creature and is a 6/6 for 9 (on the highside) with 3 abilities that you can move to another creature. If it's killed though, you have to flip it back around and do it again.
If you are taking advantage of the card as is, you'd probrably have something like a vault skirge w/ flying and lifelink. I'd rather gain some other abilities to move to my creatures if need be. Plus, you just play your second Tolarian Blueprints and give hexproof out so the creature lives on.
Maybe it would be more balanced if the dreadnaught side said: " if Tolarian Dreadnought deals combat damage to a player, flip it". Then you wouldn't be able to continually bash with a 8/8 hexproof flying lifelinker from turn 4.
There is the slight complication of flipping being a one-way process...
You could always instead UNFLIP it. Too lazy to check if the rules fully support this wording yet, but it's pretty easy to add.
ROFL! This made me laugh, the rules only apply to cards WITHOUT the wording that goes against them. Otherwise, the card wins, not the rules. If a flip card says "FLIP IT" or "UNFLIP IT" you would, period. Just because the rules state once something is done it can't be undone, doesn't mean it won't happen, it just means you can't UNDO it unless another cards ability does it for you or makes that exception for you to do it.
You could always instead UNFLIP it. Too lazy to check if the rules fully support this wording yet, but it's pretty easy to add.
There is a good reason Wizards decided this shouldn't be done - having to keep track of both tapped-untapped and flipped-unflipped simultaneously can get troublesome, so they decided to make the latter irreversible.
It's the ability seen on Gladecover Scout and other cards in M12, keyworded since that set (actually since the Commander decks), but also seen on older cards like Troll Ascetic or Slippery Bogle. It means "This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."
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I guess you're right. I mistakenly thought that flipping was a static ability waiting to be triggered. In fact, it's probably a part of the activated ability.
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Shroud would make it unable to have further targets on the creature period. When was the last time WotC designed something that needed to be expertly crafted? Hexproof makes it so you can have multiple Blueprints being constructed into their Dreadnaught forms without needing the timing to be precisely layered (Read: unfun). I love this card's design. Well done.
halo hunter can never kill baneslayer angel
Originally Posted by Jace, the Mindsculptor: 2/17
Oracle Rules text on Halo hunter from Gatherer:
When Halo Hunter enters the battlefield, destroy target Angel.
BSA is an angel, is it not??
Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
Oracle Rules text on Baneslayer Angel:
"Protection from Demons" means the following:
Baneslayer Angel can't be targeted by abilities from sources with the creature type Demon"
pwnt
Wizards need to do another build the card.
Well flavourwise the blueprint could simply state an actual "construction plan" ; and if that says shroud last, than its shroud last (if you read the blueprint right, otherwise you screw up, which is the point of idea i had).
Right now, they might use hexproof everywhere anyway ; with the trend of "only upside" effects , as players did not enjoy drawback mechanics // anything must be somehow "obvisious" good.
Either like that or not ...
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I don't like the sacrifice token thing, only because I like the idea of blueprints, then 'testing' the 'abilities' (flying, hexproof, etc.) on the creature. When they figure out the abilities, they create the dreadnought. Very cool.
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On top of that, shroud would have diminished the card's combo aspect, trading a lot of the card's appeal for a very small amount of skill testing.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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I don't like this card at all, bad design, doesn't make sense at all as a flip card. Doesn't feel like a dreadnaught. And I have no clue why tolaria is mentioned it at all. Perhaps because its horribly broken.
So they target creatures with abilities to test out the plans? Once they do all three, then all of a sudden the blueprints become a huge dreadnought just like that?
I think it makes more sense if it still had some sort of cost to become the machine. For example, instead of flipping to a creature, it flips to an artifact with 6,T: put a token into play.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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It seems about as powerful to me as the Deceiver Exarch/Splinter Twin combo, probably less so, depending on which creature you use. If it did end up too powerful you could easily balance it by making the ability sorcery-speed, for example.
I really like this card, and I never post on these threads. The power level, the combo possibilities, and the flavor all make a lot of sense. Well done
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First, its too easy to flip. Flying and Lifelink are two pretty common keywords that appear together. As said before, turn 1/2 Vault Skirge, turn 3 Tolarian Blueprints, turn 4 bash for 9 in the air lifelink? Oh and don't bother using a removal spell, its hexproof.
If the abilities were more cross the color pie so it wouldn't be so easy to activate, and more rare generic keywords, I'd like it better. As it stands, simply too easy to abuse, and WAY overpowered to ever see print.
However, that said, insanely good Flavor, design and name, best I've seen in a while, but the numbers need tweaking Good job, good job.
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Tolarian Prototype
"Artifact - Equipment"
Living Weapon
3: Equip
Equipped creature gets +6/+6 and gains haste, deathtouch, and "3:Regenerate". When equipped creature is put into a graveyard from play flip Tolarian Armor.
--------------------------
Gives it more balance since it's a creature and is a 6/6 for 9 (on the highside) with 3 abilities that you can move to another creature. If it's killed though, you have to flip it back around and do it again.
If you are taking advantage of the card as is, you'd probrably have something like a vault skirge w/ flying and lifelink. I'd rather gain some other abilities to move to my creatures if need be. Plus, you just play your second Tolarian Blueprints and give hexproof out so the creature lives on.
There is the slight complication of flipping being a one-way process...
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You could always instead UNFLIP it. Too lazy to check if the rules fully support this wording yet, but it's pretty easy to add.
ROFL! This made me laugh, the rules only apply to cards WITHOUT the wording that goes against them. Otherwise, the card wins, not the rules. If a flip card says "FLIP IT" or "UNFLIP IT" you would, period. Just because the rules state once something is done it can't be undone, doesn't mean it won't happen, it just means you can't UNDO it unless another cards ability does it for you or makes that exception for you to do it.
See Platinum Angel.
There is a good reason Wizards decided this shouldn't be done - having to keep track of both tapped-untapped and flipped-unflipped simultaneously can get troublesome, so they decided to make the latter irreversible.
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It's the ability seen on Gladecover Scout and other cards in M12, keyworded since that set (actually since the Commander decks), but also seen on older cards like Troll Ascetic or Slippery Bogle. It means "This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."