the statements below are based on empirical evidence and opinion.
at first I disagreed with the mana cost because I wanted it to be more red to force people to come up with more creative combos, but then I realized that was a little too Johhny or Melvin. Spike needs to be considered on every card, whether I like it or not.
I still disagree with the rarity, though. As much as the power to rarity ratio is never consistent in magic, (L-bolt, Path, Untaidake, Mayael) and any attempt to make it consistent would be laughable, there is still a trend with some cards. Commons tend to be either really basic like L-bolt, although there are a few very basic rares like Savannah Lions, or be combo cards that want multiples like Flame Burst. More complicated cards that do strange, powerful things tend to be rare. And while this card is pretty complicated, it also seems like the kind of card that would require multiple copies to be more powerful. Just one of these is not nearly as effective as having all 4 out. I would have definitely put this card as an uncommon or maybe a common.
Additional copies didn't even really occur to me, although there are certainly rares that require a set (Cylian Sunsinger). The weird thing about this card is that it helps white more than red, because vigilance creatures are the only ones that can effectively attack twice.
at first I disagreed with the mana cost because I wanted it to be more red to force people to come up with more creative combos, but then I realized that was a little too Johhny or Melvin. Spike needs to be considered on every card, whether I like it or not.
I still disagree with the rarity, though. As much as the power to rarity ratio is never consistent in magic, (L-bolt, Path, Untaidake, Mayael) and any attempt to make it consistent would be laughable, there is still a trend with some cards. Commons tend to be either really basic like L-bolt, although there are a few very basic rares like Savannah Lions, or be combo cards that want multiples like Flame Burst. More complicated cards that do strange, powerful things tend to be rare. And while this card is pretty complicated, it also seems like the kind of card that would require multiple copies to be more powerful. Just one of these is not nearly as effective as having all 4 out. I would have definitely put this card as an uncommon or maybe a common.
yes, yes, tlidr. stfu.
Okay first of all, not every card has to be made with spike in mind. In fact, rosewater has made many articles where he has mentioned that many cards are made with only one type of person in mind.
Next, rarity isnt about power level. Rarity is more about effect in limited, tradition, and flavor. A card that affects your turn order in such a large way shouldn't be put at common, or probably even uncommon. A card thats more effective as a 4 of is irrelevent to rarity also, most cards are better in multiples anyways.
Also, use swears. Even in an abbreviation. Especially since that is offensive to people.
not every card has to be made with spike in mind. In fact, rosewater has made many articles where he has mentioned that many cards...
Though I've never seen any specific cards MR stated were designed solely for Johnny, Timmy, Vorthos, or Melvin, if you can provide a link to an article that states that I'd be interested in reading it. You are correct that my statement above wasn't necessarily true, although I more meant it to say that I wasn't considering a spike aspect at all in my statement of mana cost, and a lot of the people involved in the voting are probably at least a little spike-ish (not really a fact, just a personal observation made on empirical evidence and opinion.)
A card thats more effective as a 4 of is irrelevent to rarity also
I disagree with you a bit. More often than not, cards like squadron hawk, the odyssey burst cycle,
our own Soulsworn Defender, and the shards mythic heralds cycle are common or uncommon. I can't think of any other playset combo cards that are rare besides cylian sunsinger. If you think of any others, please feel free to correct me.
Sure, because having a playset of L-bolts, paths, or Mindsculptors (alrdy linked the first 2, not bothering to link mindsculptor.) makes cards that efficient and powerful easier to draw out of a sixty card deck. You don't run with only one or two islands, you run with a handful, because they're a staple of your deck type.
Also, use swears. Even in an abbreviation. Especially since that is offensive to people.
Assuming you missed a word... While I am personally of the opinion that an abbreviation of the profanity has a different meaning, since it wasn't an exclamation of anger but a considered statement, and while I think a lot of people probably don't know what the acronym I put means, I will edit it out. Sorry if I offended anyone. (There isn't actually an explicit statement in the MTGS Forum Rules that abbreviations are unacceptable, but I won't push.)
EDIT: friend just pointed out the grandeur set. the count is up to 6!
This card rocks, I feel it may have been more appropriate at 1RR, but I guess this makes it splashable. Neat card though. Simple, unique, and flavorful.
Makes cards like Oathsworn Giant even better. Strange that Bull Cerodon and other creatures with vigilance and haste are only allowed to attack once since you can't cast them before the first combat phase.
No, you do have to consider Spike with every card because Spike cares about the format.
It's an interesting question if Timmy or Johnny are able to be upset in the same way. If there is a card that overcentralizes, or marginalizes skill just by being in the format, Spike is unhappy. Spike can ignore bad cards but he is forced to recognize good cards. If those cards don't test skill, he's unhappy with the format as a competitive game. He has to run the card himself, or stop playing because he knows it's correct to run the card if he plays. But a competition only attracts competitors who (A) want the prizes or (B) actually feel like they're proving something worthwhile, which has to do with the game's rules themselves.
A Johnny could only theoretically be bothered by a card if its existence somehow makes it drastically more difficult, or impossible, for Johnny to express himself in a game. I find this a difficult concept, because there's always Casual and kitchen-table banned lists. Also, because, by definition, Johnny is a more solitaire player than the other two profiles. At least for my part, I would say "you can do whatever you want; if I'm Johnny, I'm here to react to that in my own way." So, as I said, I find it a difficult concept.
The most I've been bothered by a card as a Johnny is one that looks like it will create a unique experience but actually doesn't; when it's just complexity or difficulty with no end. That is unappealing in a sense explained under the broader knowledge, though, of "unfun stuff is unfun." It involves me playing the card and then being let down.
While Johnnys like to use bad cards, or break combos, I think Johnnys, too, want a card to "be what it advertises."
Similarly, Timmy is made unhappy by the existence of a card if it reduces fun by its existence. This is more conceivable, even with kitchen table banned lists, because of the trouble of subjective tastes. You could say that permission, land destruction, and discard (all of which could be called 'permission' really) see reduction in volume in any format (now) in order not to auto-alienate Timmy or anyone coming from a Timmy standpoint.
At the least, it's a side-benefit for Timmy no matter what the causal reason for that really was.
Any sort of spell which hands a griefer player a tool, and is REALLY GOOD at griefing, will likely be bad for Timmy and so Timmy should be considered. (Note, I am aware that cards are designed for griefers. This does not mean those cards have to be good; they themselves are designed for a Timmy: the Timmy who is a griefer. It is a feeling, not a result.)
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This card rocks, I feel it may have been more appropriate at 1RR, but I guess this makes it splashable. Neat card though. Simple, unique, and flavorful.
Totally agree, even with the casting cost. Also, Swanland art FTW! And great flavor text.
Additional combat phases with no untapping? Seems a little... dumb? Especially for red, who you're more inclined to just turn everything sideways and have no way to undo that until the next turn.
Additional combat phases with no untapping? Seems a little... dumb? Especially for red, who you're more inclined to just turn everything sideways and have no way to undo that until the next turn.
i totally agree. seems like a waste because you basically get nothing special from this card
As worded any multiples of this are all satisfied with one additional combat phase. So multiples don't do anything.
Actually, if you had multiples, wouldn't each copy grant an instance of an additional combat phase to happen after the main phase? If you had 4 copies out, each copy would state that after the main phase there is an additional combat phase, stacking four bonus combat phases to happen.
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"Magic the Gathering is like an RPG where your character is your deck and your XP is equal to how much money you're willing to spend." - Brian S.
Red already has an enchantment that does this but is much more useful because it allows you to untap the creatures that you have. This is just a junky version that only works with vigilance creatures. Why bother?
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Forever known, whenever said, ancient rhyme, forgotten dead.
A) Time Warps stack, don't see why bloodsports wouldn't.
B) What enchantment does red have that does this? Aggravated Assault, sure, but it costs 5 mana to use each time. Breath of fury requires you to sacrifice a creature every time you use it. Those are the only two red enchantments with this type of effect, and one of them's an aura. And remember, as much as this one has some drawbacks... your opponent also has to deal with them, which could be interesting/useful.
Yeah sorry it's like 12:30 in the morning, too tired to do links and quotes.
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"May your Shadow bring death to all who stand before you." - Doug Beyer
I feel like the flavor of changing the turn from play stuff, attack, play stuff, done. to attack, play stuff, attack, done. is worth that awful feeling you get when after the second combat you REALLY want to play a sorcery... but can't.
also I really don't like that you are getting your first combat in the turn before you get to play your land.
This feels much more like an uncommon like dragon appeasement. messing with your turn as well as your opponent's is all fine and dandy, but having the option of having a true build-around strategy in limited is more important. It doesn't seem like this would break limited wide open, unless there were an insane number of vigilance creatures... and even then it is global so your opponent is liable to have said creatures too.
lifelink vigilance first strikers on the other hand seem freaking ridiculous with this, and don't even get me started on double strike.
although the thought of exalted + akroma's handy dandy player-slayer did immediately cross my mind.
Red already has an enchantment that does this but is much more useful because it allows you to untap the creatures that you have. This is just a junky version that only works with vigilance creatures. Why bother?
Agreed. In addition, the effect has been done so many times over already.
There are 11 cards like this, only 5 of them are permanents, none of them have the remove first main phase effect. One of them only effects samurais, one of them only effects a single creature. All of the permanent ones besides Godo have pretty ridiculous costs to use. Fatespinner is the only card that lets people skip a main phase.
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"May your Shadow bring death to all who stand before you." - Doug Beyer
good with sun titan. Get a couple of these in your graveyard and play the titan. Next turn swing... put it on to the battlefield... swing again... grab another one... so on and so forth
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at first I disagreed with the mana cost because I wanted it to be more red to force people to come up with more creative combos, but then I realized that was a little too Johhny or Melvin. Spike needs to be considered on every card, whether I like it or not.
I still disagree with the rarity, though. As much as the power to rarity ratio is never consistent in magic, (L-bolt, Path, Untaidake, Mayael) and any attempt to make it consistent would be laughable, there is still a trend with some cards. Commons tend to be either really basic like L-bolt, although there are a few very basic rares like Savannah Lions, or be combo cards that want multiples like Flame Burst. More complicated cards that do strange, powerful things tend to be rare. And while this card is pretty complicated, it also seems like the kind of card that would require multiple copies to be more powerful. Just one of these is not nearly as effective as having all 4 out. I would have definitely put this card as an uncommon or maybe a common.
yes, yes, tlidr. quiet.
Okay first of all, not every card has to be made with spike in mind. In fact, rosewater has made many articles where he has mentioned that many cards are made with only one type of person in mind.
Next, rarity isnt about power level. Rarity is more about effect in limited, tradition, and flavor. A card that affects your turn order in such a large way shouldn't be put at common, or probably even uncommon. A card thats more effective as a 4 of is irrelevent to rarity also, most cards are better in multiples anyways.
Also, use swears. Even in an abbreviation. Especially since that is offensive to people.
D'oh!
Though I've never seen any specific cards MR stated were designed solely for Johnny, Timmy, Vorthos, or Melvin, if you can provide a link to an article that states that I'd be interested in reading it. You are correct that my statement above wasn't necessarily true, although I more meant it to say that I wasn't considering a spike aspect at all in my statement of mana cost, and a lot of the people involved in the voting are probably at least a little spike-ish (not really a fact, just a personal observation made on empirical evidence and opinion.)
That's what I was saying, that the trend in rarity didn't have much to do with power.
I already stated
, expressing my opinion, which yours directly opposes. That's fine, I was just stating my opinion and you're welcome to yours.
I disagree with you a bit. More often than not, cards like squadron hawk, the odyssey burst cycle,
our own Soulsworn Defender, and the shards mythic heralds cycle are common or uncommon. I can't think of any other playset combo cards that are rare besides cylian sunsinger. If you think of any others, please feel free to correct me.
Sure, because having a playset of L-bolts, paths, or Mindsculptors (alrdy linked the first 2, not bothering to link mindsculptor.) makes cards that efficient and powerful easier to draw out of a sixty card deck. You don't run with only one or two islands, you run with a handful, because they're a staple of your deck type.
Assuming you missed a word... While I am personally of the opinion that an abbreviation of the profanity has a different meaning, since it wasn't an exclamation of anger but a considered statement, and while I think a lot of people probably don't know what the acronym I put means, I will edit it out. Sorry if I offended anyone. (There isn't actually an explicit statement in the MTGS Forum Rules that abbreviations are unacceptable, but I won't push.)
EDIT: friend just pointed out the grandeur set. the count is up to 6!
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
It's an interesting question if Timmy or Johnny are able to be upset in the same way. If there is a card that overcentralizes, or marginalizes skill just by being in the format, Spike is unhappy. Spike can ignore bad cards but he is forced to recognize good cards. If those cards don't test skill, he's unhappy with the format as a competitive game. He has to run the card himself, or stop playing because he knows it's correct to run the card if he plays. But a competition only attracts competitors who (A) want the prizes or (B) actually feel like they're proving something worthwhile, which has to do with the game's rules themselves.
A Johnny could only theoretically be bothered by a card if its existence somehow makes it drastically more difficult, or impossible, for Johnny to express himself in a game. I find this a difficult concept, because there's always Casual and kitchen-table banned lists. Also, because, by definition, Johnny is a more solitaire player than the other two profiles. At least for my part, I would say "you can do whatever you want; if I'm Johnny, I'm here to react to that in my own way." So, as I said, I find it a difficult concept.
The most I've been bothered by a card as a Johnny is one that looks like it will create a unique experience but actually doesn't; when it's just complexity or difficulty with no end. That is unappealing in a sense explained under the broader knowledge, though, of "unfun stuff is unfun." It involves me playing the card and then being let down.
While Johnnys like to use bad cards, or break combos, I think Johnnys, too, want a card to "be what it advertises."
Similarly, Timmy is made unhappy by the existence of a card if it reduces fun by its existence. This is more conceivable, even with kitchen table banned lists, because of the trouble of subjective tastes. You could say that permission, land destruction, and discard (all of which could be called 'permission' really) see reduction in volume in any format (now) in order not to auto-alienate Timmy or anyone coming from a Timmy standpoint.
At the least, it's a side-benefit for Timmy no matter what the causal reason for that really was.
Any sort of spell which hands a griefer player a tool, and is REALLY GOOD at griefing, will likely be bad for Timmy and so Timmy should be considered. (Note, I am aware that cards are designed for griefers. This does not mean those cards have to be good; they themselves are designed for a Timmy: the Timmy who is a griefer. It is a feeling, not a result.)
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Totally agree, even with the casting cost. Also, Swanland art FTW! And great flavor text.
i totally agree. seems like a waste because you basically get nothing special from this card
Actually, if you had multiples, wouldn't each copy grant an instance of an additional combat phase to happen after the main phase? If you had 4 copies out, each copy would state that after the main phase there is an additional combat phase, stacking four bonus combat phases to happen.
B) What enchantment does red have that does this? Aggravated Assault, sure, but it costs 5 mana to use each time. Breath of fury requires you to sacrifice a creature every time you use it. Those are the only two red enchantments with this type of effect, and one of them's an aura. And remember, as much as this one has some drawbacks... your opponent also has to deal with them, which could be interesting/useful.
Yeah sorry it's like 12:30 in the morning, too tired to do links and quotes.
also I really don't like that you are getting your first combat in the turn before you get to play your land.
This feels much more like an uncommon like dragon appeasement. messing with your turn as well as your opponent's is all fine and dandy, but having the option of having a true build-around strategy in limited is more important. It doesn't seem like this would break limited wide open, unless there were an insane number of vigilance creatures... and even then it is global so your opponent is liable to have said creatures too.
lifelink vigilance first strikers on the other hand seem freaking ridiculous with this, and don't even get me started on double strike.
although the thought of exalted + akroma's handy dandy player-slayer did immediately cross my mind.
Agreed. In addition, the effect has been done so many times over already.
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