Body Swap1B
Sorcery (U)
Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card, then you may return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
I swear something like this has to exist (even if it's just discard + raise dead) but I can't think of it...
The effect is a bit awkward. Its rare that both discard and raise dead are both abilities that can work. Discard is generally used in the early game when graveyards don't have creatures in them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I did do a gatherer search, no luck. My search terms might have been off though, and it feels familiar. Hence meriny asking here.
And yeah, it's certainly niche. It's not meant to be good in every situation, but in some situations it's a rather nice 2-for-1. I like commons like this, as it gives you a bit of an incentive to build around them in both limited and constructed.
I'm a bit worried about this because if you don't hit on the discard, you don't raise dead.
In any case, I was careful to word this to allow it to work as a reanimator discard outlet.
Oh, and you could print things like this, too, to combo with it:
Skittering Zombie2B
Creature - Cat Zombie (C)
If a spell or effect would return Skittering Zombie from your graveyard to your hand, you may return it to the battlefield instead.
2/1
It's costed to be both limited filler and a combo piece for constructed. That's a nice way to make sure your common cards full a limited role without being absolutely terrible in other formats.
I'm a bit worried about this because if you don't hit on the discard, you don't raise dead.
That's easy to fix...
Body Swap 1B
Sorcery (U)
Choose one or both:
- Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card.
- Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
...Might need to choose a different name now as the bodies aren't always swapping, but whatever. If it's the gameplay you want....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I'm a bit worried about this because if you don't hit on the discard, you don't raise dead.
That's easy to fix...
Body Swap 1B
Sorcery (U)
Choose one or both:
- Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card.
- Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
...Might need to choose a different name now as the bodies aren't always swapping, but whatever. If it's the gameplay you want....
You wouldn't need the choose one or both: Appropriate Name1B
Sorcery (U)
Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card.
Return up to one creature card from your graveyard to your hand. (Doesn't target so you can get back what you discard).
However, as it's not conditional, the name doesn't feel like "Body Swap."
I don't know if this card would be overpowered or not. It's a 2-for-1 sometimes, but even the 1st ability could sensibly be printed at 1B on it's own. I suppose we'd test to see if it should be a 2B common or not.
(Doesn't target so you can get back what you discard).
If that is the intended use, you should just use a raise dead+tormenting voice variant. As is, there isn't any real reason to use the original version of body swap targeting oneself.
Body Swap B
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Body Swap, discard a creature
Return up to two creature cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
The change in wording here is a bit more complex, admittedly, as you don't have to target when you play, but this does 2 substantive things that make it worth the change in wording:
1. It lets you "combo" with Skittering Zombie (or similar effects that might be printed - think a reverse madness mechanic; if you return something to your hand, you can pay the cost to play it...). That's interesting.
2. It evades targeted graveyard hate. With raise dead effects, targeted instant speed graveyard hate stops them. With this... it just means you get your 2nd choice. But getting your 2nd choice isinteresting, especially when your opponent still gets their 1/1 spirit token or whatever.
Mind you, these will not happen in 99% of the situations (I think only 2 really matters here; as the 1st is a hypothetical design). But the slight change in text is worth doing it.
Again, though, this effect shouldn't be called "Body Swap".
As for your latest version, it completely loses the idea of "somebody" losing a card, and you getting it back. In constructed, that "somebody" is usually your opponent. But the fact that the card can target you is interesting. It can help facilitate a clunky limited reanimator deck in addition to it's normal role in limited as a discard/raise dead effect.
Yours isn't even "Swapping" anything, as you canget the discarded guy back! So you're not really even paying any cost it's like it was raise dead with Kicker - Discard a creature card. If you kickered, copy this spell! Yeah, as is it's a drawback, but a silly one as you'll often get back what you discarded. And that just feels bizarre.
The wording on mine leaves open the bizarre option (you choose you, discard your skittering zombie, then return it from your grave to your hand, but it skitters into play instead.). There's also the situation where you discard griselbrand and choose to get back nothing, then reanimate him the next turn. These are tricks players learn, not the default method of gameplay. Indeed, in decks that would use these tricks, the card works as a split spell, letting you discard or serving as a way to make your opponent discard.
2. It evades targeted graveyard hate. With raise dead effects, targeted instant speed graveyard hate stops them.
In general, it isn't a good thing in a design to avoid counterplay. Better_Murder isn't a good design. Graveyard hate effectively stopping graveyard matters abilities/cards is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Better_Murder 1BB
Instant
Choose a creature and then destroy the chosen creature.
Yours isn't even "Swapping" anything, as you canget the discarded guy back! So you're not really even paying any cost it's like it was raise dead with Kicker - Discard a creature card. If you kickered, copy this spell! Yeah, as is it's a drawback, but a silly one as you'll often get back what you discarded. And that just feels bizarre.
Your right, the body swap variant I just posted should target in order to enforce the swapping.
The wording on mine leaves open the bizarre option (you choose you, discard your skittering zombie, then return it from your grave to your hand, but it skitters into play instead.)
Thing is, that's awful. You are spending two mana and two cards in order to get a 2/1. If that's the right play, something has gone horribly wrong with your deck or the meta. You are going out of your way to design a clunkier version of a spell in order to design other cards to specifically combo with the needlessly clunky spell, but in a combo that isn't even good in 99.9% of formats ever. This seems like a lot of design work for mostly uninteresting gameplay.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
You're quite right; just wording it to avoid targeted graveyard hate is a bad thing. But that's why that's concern #2. Yes, it's functionally better, but only slightly. All we're saying is that Extirpate is no longer a counterspell for the card; it just removes your best option. THAT is interesting design space that is scarcely evaluated.
Re: Skittering Zombie Combo: Tell that to Prized Amalgam.
You're quite right; just wording it to avoid targeted graveyard hate is a bad thing. But that's why that's concern #2. Yes, it's functionally better, but only slightly. All we're saying is that Extirpate is no longer a counterspell for the card; it just removes your best option. THAT is interesting design space that is scarcely evaluated.
Concern 1 is also in contention. I don't think you gain interesting design space here. If you go out of your way to design other strange combo cards, you can make your first concern matter, but doing so is going to make that package very insular in standard
Re: Skittering Zombie Combo: Tell that to Prized Amalgam.
Once again "this seems like a lot of design work for mostly uninteresting gameplay." If you want prized amalgam style gameplay, there are simpler ways to do it than printing non-interactive raise dead effects clunky stapled to hand disruption except it's actually meant to merely be a discard outlet. Why not have a more focussed design that actually communicates to players how it is meant to be used. You have numerous options.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Sorcery (U)
Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card, then you may return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
I swear something like this has to exist (even if it's just discard + raise dead) but I can't think of it...
The effect is a bit awkward. Its rare that both discard and raise dead are both abilities that can work. Discard is generally used in the early game when graveyards don't have creatures in them.
- Manite
And yeah, it's certainly niche. It's not meant to be good in every situation, but in some situations it's a rather nice 2-for-1. I like commons like this, as it gives you a bit of an incentive to build around them in both limited and constructed.
I'm a bit worried about this because if you don't hit on the discard, you don't raise dead.
In any case, I was careful to word this to allow it to work as a reanimator discard outlet.
Oh, and you could print things like this, too, to combo with it:
Skittering Zombie 2B
Creature - Cat Zombie (C)
If a spell or effect would return Skittering Zombie from your graveyard to your hand, you may return it to the battlefield instead.
2/1
It's costed to be both limited filler and a combo piece for constructed. That's a nice way to make sure your common cards full a limited role without being absolutely terrible in other formats.
That's easy to fix...
Body Swap 1B
Sorcery (U)
Choose one or both:
- Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card.
- Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
...Might need to choose a different name now as the bodies aren't always swapping, but whatever. If it's the gameplay you want....
- Manite
- Rabid Wombat
You wouldn't need the choose one or both:
Appropriate Name 1B
Sorcery (U)
Target player reveals his or her hand. You may choose a creature card from it. If you do, that player discards that card.
Return up to one creature card from your graveyard to your hand. (Doesn't target so you can get back what you discard).
However, as it's not conditional, the name doesn't feel like "Body Swap."
I don't know if this card would be overpowered or not. It's a 2-for-1 sometimes, but even the 1st ability could sensibly be printed at 1B on it's own. I suppose we'd test to see if it should be a 2B common or not.
If that is the intended use, you should just use a raise dead+tormenting voice variant. As is, there isn't any real reason to use the original version of body swap targeting oneself.
Body Swap B
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Body Swap, discard a creature
Return up to two creature cards from your graveyard to your hand.
- Manite
1. It lets you "combo" with Skittering Zombie (or similar effects that might be printed - think a reverse madness mechanic; if you return something to your hand, you can pay the cost to play it...). That's interesting.
2. It evades targeted graveyard hate. With raise dead effects, targeted instant speed graveyard hate stops them. With this... it just means you get your 2nd choice. But getting your 2nd choice is interesting, especially when your opponent still gets their 1/1 spirit token or whatever.
Mind you, these will not happen in 99% of the situations (I think only 2 really matters here; as the 1st is a hypothetical design). But the slight change in text is worth doing it.
Again, though, this effect shouldn't be called "Body Swap".
As for your latest version, it completely loses the idea of "somebody" losing a card, and you getting it back. In constructed, that "somebody" is usually your opponent. But the fact that the card can target you is interesting. It can help facilitate a clunky limited reanimator deck in addition to it's normal role in limited as a discard/raise dead effect.
Yours isn't even "Swapping" anything, as you canget the discarded guy back! So you're not really even paying any cost it's like it was raise dead with Kicker - Discard a creature card. If you kickered, copy this spell! Yeah, as is it's a drawback, but a silly one as you'll often get back what you discarded. And that just feels bizarre.
The wording on mine leaves open the bizarre option (you choose you, discard your skittering zombie, then return it from your grave to your hand, but it skitters into play instead.). There's also the situation where you discard griselbrand and choose to get back nothing, then reanimate him the next turn. These are tricks players learn, not the default method of gameplay. Indeed, in decks that would use these tricks, the card works as a split spell, letting you discard or serving as a way to make your opponent discard.
In general, it isn't a good thing in a design to avoid counterplay. Better_Murder isn't a good design. Graveyard hate effectively stopping graveyard matters abilities/cards is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Better_Murder 1BB
Instant
Choose a creature and then destroy the chosen creature.
Your right, the body swap variant I just posted should target in order to enforce the swapping.
Thing is, that's awful. You are spending two mana and two cards in order to get a 2/1. If that's the right play, something has gone horribly wrong with your deck or the meta. You are going out of your way to design a clunkier version of a spell in order to design other cards to specifically combo with the needlessly clunky spell, but in a combo that isn't even good in 99.9% of formats ever. This seems like a lot of design work for mostly uninteresting gameplay.
- Manite
Re: Skittering Zombie Combo: Tell that to Prized Amalgam.
Concern 1 is also in contention. I don't think you gain interesting design space here. If you go out of your way to design other strange combo cards, you can make your first concern matter, but doing so is going to make that package very insular in standard
Once again "this seems like a lot of design work for mostly uninteresting gameplay." If you want prized amalgam style gameplay, there are simpler ways to do it than printing non-interactive raise dead effects clunky stapled to hand disruption except it's actually meant to merely be a discard outlet. Why not have a more focussed design that actually communicates to players how it is meant to be used. You have numerous options.
- Manite