I had an idea a long time ago and can't remember if I posted it or not. In any case, here it is:
Gideon's Sural4
Artifact - Weapon (You may attack or block with up to one Weapon each combat.) You have vigilance.
Attacking with ~ doesn't cause it to tap.
Whenever you attack or block with ~, tap target creature.
Power - 4
EDIT: Was 3 with 5 power.
Samut's Kophesh2
Artifact - Weapon
Dual wield (You may attack or block with up to two Weapons each combat if both have dual wield.)
Whenever you attack or block with ~, if you're dual wielding, you gain first strike until end of turn.
Power - 2
EDIT: Was 3 power.
Garruk's Axe6
Artifact - Weapon You have trample.
You have trample as long as you're attacking with ~.
Whenever you deal combat damage to a player or planeswalker with ~, put a +1 counter on ~.
Power - 6
EDIT: Was 4.
Basically, it's something to allow the player to jump into combat with their creatures.
I'll explain how they work in the spoiler below, but I'd like to here feedback about how you think they work without any explanation before you read the rules. Any questions and suggestions are welcome.
So they essentially let you act as a creature in combat.
If you control an untapped weapon, you can tap it to declare yourself as an attacker.
If you control an untapped weapon when you're being attacked, you can use it to declare yourself as a blocker.
You take any combat damage assigned by a creature blocking or being blocked by you.
You are not affected by summoning sickness, so you can use a weapon right away.
You can only attack or block with one weapon at a time, unless you are "dual wielding" (attacking with two weapons that both have dual wield).
If you dual wield, you have the total power of both weapons, as well as any abilities granted by either.
Even though dual wielding uses two cards to represent you in combat, you still count as one attacker or blocker.
If you attack, dual wielding, and are blocked, both weapons' worth of power are blocked (unless one grants you trample, in which case you calculate damage using the total of the two weapons' power). The idea is that you are like a creature with equipment on it. One entity with multiple buffs.
Also, even if you are dual wielding, you can only attack one player or planeswalker at a time, like any one creature could.
You don't count as a creature, so you don't get counted among affects that refer to "attacking or blocking creatures," or anything similar.
You also can't get +1/+1 counters or be affected by similar effects that change power and toughness, even though weapons can grant you power. However, weapons can get +1 counters that add to the power they grant you.
Yes, players can meet each other in combat, in which case they deal damage to each other equal to their power. The attacking player is still the attacking player and the defending player is still the defending player, even though they are also simultaneously attacker and blocker (but again, not creatures).
Blocking an attack directed at a planeswalker you control does not change how the attack is declared. The planeswalker is still being attacked.
You can still be trampled over, though that is almost never relevant.
If you block an attacking creature with your weapon and a creature, the attacking player still assigns blocking order. That means they can assign combat damage to you before the blocking creature.
Let me know if I missed anything important and if you think this sort of thing has a chance at showing up at common.
I think "weapon" is too close to "equipment", linguistically, to work.
What you want is "Equip players" in some sense.
Urza's Battle Armor6
Artifact - Equipment
Equip Player (This enters the battlefield attached to you. You may attack and block as though you were a 1/1 creature. You do not die from combat or having 0 or less toughness. Damage to you causes you to lose that much life.)
You get +2/+0 and have absorb 2. (Note how absorb works really kicks this up a notch on the defense.)
Mind you, I hate this idea so much. If anything, keep it to form of the dragon-style enchantments. But this is the design space you were looking for.
I dislike that Garruk's Axe can only be used by players while e.g. Darksteel Axe can only be used by creatures.
I'd rather see a rules patch / variant format / etc where players are creaturelike objects by default and are inherently able to attack and be equipped, enchanted as creatures, etc.
Cool concept. I wonder if there's a way to achieve this within existing rules.
Gideon's Sural (Uncommon) 3
Artifact
Whenever Gideon's Sural attacks or blocks, tap target creature defending player controls. 0: Gideon's Sural becomes a 5/1 Weapon creature with vigilance until end of turn. Damage that would be dealt to Gideon's Sural is dealt to its controller instead.
Gideon's Sural states that "You have vigilance" that suggests that the player becomes tapped when attacking with a Weapon. How would this be indicated or tracked? The tapped state is typically a physical repositioning of the card on the play surface for easy immediate recognition. Tapping the weapon is not sufficient and would be incorrect given that the weapon itself is a permanent that might be tapped for other reasons.
Each of these grants a combat keyword to the player, but makes no mention of that specific weapon being used in order to gain that keyword. This seems like a flavor fail. I'm attacking with Garruk's Axe, but since Samut's Kophesh and Gideon's Sural are sitting next to me, I also have first strike and vigilance.
Finally, these seem to be very powerful for their costs. Unlike creatures of similar power, these are not destroyed by unfavorable combat outcomes, and since there is no cost to "equip" and no suggestion of any summoning sickness or equivalent, they take effect immediately.
Gideon's Sural3
Legendary Artifact Creature
Vigilance, haste
All damage that would be dealt to ~ is dealt to you instead.
When ~ attacks or blocks, you may tap target creature.
5/1
This is essentially (not identically) what your design would play as, and it's unreasonably powerful for the cost. The limit of only being able to use one weapon at a time is insignificant if they are going to be as individually overpowered as this.
Gideon's Sural states that "You have vigilance" that suggests that the player becomes tapped when attacking with a Weapon. How would this be indicated or tracked? The tapped state is typically a physical repositioning of the card on the play surface for easy immediate recognition. Tapping the weapon is not sufficient and would be incorrect given that the weapon itself is a permanent that might be tapped for other reasons.
Each of these grants a combat keyword to the player, but makes no mention of that specific weapon being used in order to gain that keyword. This seems like a flavor fail. I'm attacking with Garruk's Axe, but since Samut's Kophesh and Gideon's Sural are sitting next to me, I also have first strike and vigilance.
Finally, these seem to be very powerful for their costs. Unlike creatures of similar power, these are not destroyed by unfavorable combat outcomes, and since there is no cost to "equip" and no suggestion of any summoning sickness or equivalent, they take effect immediately.
Gideon's Sural3
Legendary Artifact Creature
Vigilance, haste
All damage that would be dealt to ~ is dealt to you instead.
When ~ attacks or blocks, you may tap target creature.
5/1
This is essentially (not identically) what your design would play as, and it's unreasonably powerful for the cost. The limit of only being able to use one weapon at a time is insignificant if they are going to be as individually overpowered as this.
Ah. You're right about the wording for the keywords. I suppose with Gideon's Sural, I'd have to spell out "Attacking with this doesn't cause it to tap," and with Garruk's Axe it would need to be "You have trample as long as you're attacking with this."
As the power level goes, the reason I gave weapons more aggressive stats is that you are putting yourself in a position to take damage by using them, where creatures eat all the damage for you.
Do you have any suggestions on how to balance them a bit more?
Blocking an attack directed at a planeswalker you control does not change how the attack is declared. The planeswalker is still being attacked and (if for any reason it becomes relevant) any trample damage will be dealt to it.
If a creature with trample attacks you or a planeswalker you control, and you have less life than that creature's power,
and you block with a weapon and another creature, the attacking player still assigns blocking order, meaning they can kill you even if you have more total toughness and life than the attacker's power.
I'm confused how trample factors into these two examples?
My opponent attacks Gideon with both his creatures. I block the Garruk's Companion and have my Squire block the Grizzly Bear. Do I take 3 damage or does Gideon take 3 damage? Does trample somehow allow him to assign damage to Gideon even though I have more than 3 life? That's what it sounds like you might be saying with that first example.
For the second example, is it relevant at this point that the creature has trample? Normal creatures could also assign damage as they choose among the defending creatures, and if I were at 2 life with the Sural and blocked his Grizzly Bears alongside my Squire, presumably the bears could assign 2 damage to me despite not having trample, right? Or are you saying that trample would be required to do this? If so I would nix that rule, as it's very unintuitive with how attacking and blocking normally works.
As far as before I read the rules, understanding attacking was very intuitive, but I was a bit confused with how "blocking" worked, since the end result runs contrary to the english definition of the word "block" (i.e. nothing is 'blocked', you just return damage at the same time you take damage.)
How does blocking a creature with weapons work with cards like Master of Cruelties which ask if they have been blocked rather than if they have dealt combat damage to a player? For effects that care like Tower of the Magistrate, is the weapon dealing the damage or am I dealing the damage?
My opponent attacks Gideon with both his creatures. I block the Garruk's Companion and have my Squire block the Grizzly Bear. Do I take 3 damage or does Gideon take 3 damage? Does trample somehow allow him to assign damage to Gideon even though I have more than 3 life? That's what it sounds like you might be saying with that first example.
You take the full trample damage. Gideon takes 0.
For the second example, is it relevant at this point that the creature has trample? Normal creatures could also assign damage as they choose among the defending creatures, and if I were at 2 life with the Sural and blocked his Grizzly Bears alongside my Squire, presumably the bears could assign 2 damage to me despite not having trample, right? Or are you saying that trample would be required to do this? If so I would nix that rule, as it's very unintuitive with how attacking and blocking normally works.
If you multi-block with a weapon and another creature, the attacking player can assign damage to you before the blocking creature. Sorry, it looks like I used a bad example.
As far as before I read the rules, understanding attacking was very intuitive, but I was a bit confused with how "blocking" worked, since the end result runs contrary to the english definition of the word "block" (i.e. nothing is 'blocked', you just return damage at the same time you take damage.)
How does blocking a creature with weapons work with cards like Master of Cruelties which ask if they have been blocked rather than if they have dealt combat damage to a player? For effects that care like Tower of the Magistrate, is the weapon dealing the damage or am I dealing the damage?
Master of Cruelties is still considered "blocked," even if the player is the one blocking it, so its trigger never happens.
And you, the player, are dealing the damage, not the weapon. It's the same as an equipment on a creature: the creature deals the damage, not the equipment.
Gideon's Sural 4
Artifact - Weapon
(You may attack or block with up to one Weapon each combat.)
You have vigilance.Attacking with ~ doesn't cause it to tap.
Whenever you attack or block with ~, tap target creature.
Power - 4
EDIT: Was 3 with 5 power.
Samut's Kophesh 2
Artifact - Weapon
Dual wield (You may attack or block with up to two Weapons each combat if both have dual wield.)
Whenever you attack or block with ~, if you're dual wielding, you gain first strike until end of turn.
Power - 2
EDIT: Was 3 power.
Garruk's Axe 6
Artifact - Weapon
You have trample.You have trample as long as you're attacking with ~.
Whenever you deal combat damage to a player or planeswalker with ~, put a +1 counter on ~.
Power - 6
EDIT: Was 4.
Basically, it's something to allow the player to jump into combat with their creatures.
I'll explain how they work in the spoiler below, but I'd like to here feedback about how you think they work without any explanation before you read the rules. Any questions and suggestions are welcome.
If you control an untapped weapon, you can tap it to declare yourself as an attacker.
If you control an untapped weapon when you're being attacked, you can use it to declare yourself as a blocker.
You take any combat damage assigned by a creature blocking or being blocked by you.
You are not affected by summoning sickness, so you can use a weapon right away.
You can only attack or block with one weapon at a time, unless you are "dual wielding" (attacking with two weapons that both have dual wield).
If you dual wield, you have the total power of both weapons, as well as any abilities granted by either.
Even though dual wielding uses two cards to represent you in combat, you still count as one attacker or blocker.
If you attack, dual wielding, and are blocked, both weapons' worth of power are blocked (unless one grants you trample, in which case you calculate damage using the total of the two weapons' power). The idea is that you are like a creature with equipment on it. One entity with multiple buffs.
Also, even if you are dual wielding, you can only attack one player or planeswalker at a time, like any one creature could.
You don't count as a creature, so you don't get counted among affects that refer to "attacking or blocking creatures," or anything similar.
You also can't get +1/+1 counters or be affected by similar effects that change power and toughness, even though weapons can grant you power. However, weapons can get +1 counters that add to the power they grant you.
Yes, players can meet each other in combat, in which case they deal damage to each other equal to their power. The attacking player is still the attacking player and the defending player is still the defending player, even though they are also simultaneously attacker and blocker (but again, not creatures).
Blocking an attack directed at a planeswalker you control does not change how the attack is declared. The planeswalker is still being attacked.
You can still be trampled over, though that is almost never relevant.
If you block an attacking creature with your weapon and a creature, the attacking player still assigns blocking order. That means they can assign combat damage to you before the blocking creature.
Let me know if I missed anything important and if you think this sort of thing has a chance at showing up at common.
What you want is "Equip players" in some sense.
Urza's Battle Armor 6
Artifact - Equipment
Equip Player (This enters the battlefield attached to you. You may attack and block as though you were a 1/1 creature. You do not die from combat or having 0 or less toughness. Damage to you causes you to lose that much life.)
You get +2/+0 and have absorb 2. (Note how absorb works really kicks this up a notch on the defense.)
Mind you, I hate this idea so much. If anything, keep it to form of the dragon-style enchantments. But this is the design space you were looking for.
I'd rather see a rules patch / variant format / etc where players are creaturelike objects by default and are inherently able to attack and be equipped, enchanted as creatures, etc.
Gideon's Sural (Uncommon)
3
Artifact
Whenever Gideon's Sural attacks or blocks, tap target creature defending player controls.
0: Gideon's Sural becomes a 5/1 Weapon creature with vigilance until end of turn. Damage that would be dealt to Gideon's Sural is dealt to its controller instead.
EDIT: This doesn't limit you to two though.
Each of these grants a combat keyword to the player, but makes no mention of that specific weapon being used in order to gain that keyword. This seems like a flavor fail. I'm attacking with Garruk's Axe, but since Samut's Kophesh and Gideon's Sural are sitting next to me, I also have first strike and vigilance.
Finally, these seem to be very powerful for their costs. Unlike creatures of similar power, these are not destroyed by unfavorable combat outcomes, and since there is no cost to "equip" and no suggestion of any summoning sickness or equivalent, they take effect immediately.
Gideon's Sural 3
Legendary Artifact Creature
Vigilance, haste
All damage that would be dealt to ~ is dealt to you instead.
When ~ attacks or blocks, you may tap target creature.
5/1
This is essentially (not identically) what your design would play as, and it's unreasonably powerful for the cost. The limit of only being able to use one weapon at a time is insignificant if they are going to be as individually overpowered as this.
As the power level goes, the reason I gave weapons more aggressive stats is that you are putting yourself in a position to take damage by using them, where creatures eat all the damage for you.
Do you have any suggestions on how to balance them a bit more?
I'm confused how trample factors into these two examples?
Suppose my opponent has a 2/2 Grizzly Bear and a 3/2 Garruk's Companion. I have Gideon's Sural, a Squire, and Gideon Jura with 3 loyalty. I have 15 life.
My opponent attacks Gideon with both his creatures. I block the Garruk's Companion and have my Squire block the Grizzly Bear. Do I take 3 damage or does Gideon take 3 damage? Does trample somehow allow him to assign damage to Gideon even though I have more than 3 life? That's what it sounds like you might be saying with that first example.
For the second example, is it relevant at this point that the creature has trample? Normal creatures could also assign damage as they choose among the defending creatures, and if I were at 2 life with the Sural and blocked his Grizzly Bears alongside my Squire, presumably the bears could assign 2 damage to me despite not having trample, right? Or are you saying that trample would be required to do this? If so I would nix that rule, as it's very unintuitive with how attacking and blocking normally works.
As far as before I read the rules, understanding attacking was very intuitive, but I was a bit confused with how "blocking" worked, since the end result runs contrary to the english definition of the word "block" (i.e. nothing is 'blocked', you just return damage at the same time you take damage.)
How does blocking a creature with weapons work with cards like Master of Cruelties which ask if they have been blocked rather than if they have dealt combat damage to a player? For effects that care like Tower of the Magistrate, is the weapon dealing the damage or am I dealing the damage?
- Rabid Wombat
If you multi-block with a weapon and another creature, the attacking player can assign damage to you before the blocking creature. Sorry, it looks like I used a bad example.
Master of Cruelties is still considered "blocked," even if the player is the one blocking it, so its trigger never happens.
And you, the player, are dealing the damage, not the weapon. It's the same as an equipment on a creature: the creature deals the damage, not the equipment.
I'm less concerned about flavor misses with this. Especially since these are just examples.