The revamp is well under way. Rather than dig up the previous threads. I'm porting their results (with necessary alterations) here.
AzoriusProctor (Common) 4(W/U)
Creature - Vedalken Soldier
3/5
Part of the revised vanilla hybrid cycle.
Banish (Common) 3WW
Sorcery
Exile target nonland permanent.
Sorcery speed and double colored mana so as not to completely obsolete cards like Final Reward.
BoneCollector (Common) GW
Creature - Human Cleric
1/1
Whenever another creature you control dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Bone Collector.
ChanceryOwls (Common) 2W
Sorcery
Create two 1/1 white Bird creature tokens with flying.
Obstruct 2. (Spells your opponents cast cost 2 more to cast until your next turn.)
The strongest of the Obstruct commons. Has been playtested extensively by myself and about twenty other idiots. We think it's fine.
Collective Strength (Common) 1GW
Instant
Until end of turn, target creature you control gets +3/+3 and other creatures you control get +1/+1.
Concordia Pegasus (Common) 1W
Creature – Pegasus
1/3
Flying
I'm trying to have at least one reprint in each color at common.
Epitaph (Common) W
Sorcery
Exile target card from a graveyard.
Draw a card.
FunctionInjunction (Common) 2(W/U)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s untap step.
GiantSloth (Common) 5W
Creature – Sloth
3/3
First strike 5G: Giant Sloth gets +3/+3 until end of turn.
It may seem odd, but five-six mana is actually normal for a common 3/3 with first strike.
GriffinPerch (Common) 2WW
Creature - Wall
0/5
Defender 1W: Griffin Perch loses defender and becomes a 3/3 Griffin with flying until end of turn.
Guild Truce (Common) W
Instant
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn by multicolored creatures.
GuardianLynx (Common) (G/W)
Creature – Cat
1/2
Part of the revised vanilla hybrid cycle.
HussarElite (Common) 2WU
Creature - Human Knight
2/4
Flying
Vigilance
I was sure that there was a plethora of common four mana white and/or blue 2/4's with flying. Turns out there aren't that many.
Pack Dromad (Common) 2W
Creature – Beast
2/3
When Pack Dromad enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life.
Sanctify (Common) 2(G/W)
Sorcery
Exile target artifact or enchantment.
You gain 3 life.
SingleOut (Common) 1W
Instant
Tap up to two target creatures. If U was spent to cast Single Out, return one of those creatures to its owner's hand.
Spirit of Procrastination (Common) W
Creature - Spirit Advisor
1/1
When Spirit of Procrastination enters the battlefield, obstruct 1. (Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more to cast until your next turn.)
Stay of Execution (Common) 2W
Enchantment — Aura
Flash (You may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant.)
Enchant creature
When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner’s control.
SylvanSquire (Common) 1W
Creature – Elf Soldier
1/1
When Sylvan Squire enters the battlefield, thrive 1. (Create a 1/1 green Plant creature token or put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.)
Temporary Blockade (Common) 1W
Sorcery
Untap all creatures you control.
Obstruct 1. (Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more to cast until your next turn.)
Vel-Tyra Blessing (Common) 4W
Sorcery
Thrive 4. (Create a 4/4 green Plant creature token or put four +1/+1 counters on target creature.)
Verdant Growth (Common) 2W
Sorcery
Thrive 2. (Create a 2/2 green Plant creature token or put two +1/+1 counters on target creature.)
Obsctruct seems ridiculously undercosted for something that is effectively a Time Walk in many situations. A 3/3 flier across 3 bodies that also stops your opponent from doing much of anything during his/her turn would be playable at rare. Even Obstruct 1 can ruin a player's curve if used multiple times across early turns of a game. Even for the "no fun allowed" guild, that seems harsh.
Other comments:
The idea of a white cockatrice is a little strange, though not as strange as a Selesnya-aligned creature with deathtouch. Green is very much a secondary color for the mechanic, as evidenced by the all of two non-black multicolored green cards with deathtouch.
Sphinx's Inspiration is very pushed for a common. Adding lifegain to Divination is already worth the extra color at common. Making it an instant justifies a rarity upgrade to uncommon unless you make it a 4 drop.
I get what you're trying to do with Translocation, but flicker and unconditional exile are at two polar opposite ends of the CMC spectrum. What we have here is a premium piece of removal that nobody will want to use to protect their creatures.
Obstruct has already been through three successful real life tournaments. This is the third iteration of its mechanic suite. Believe it or not, Obstruct has actually been powered up a little bit because it was underwhelming. Of all the criticisms I was given, the one that surprised me the most was that Obstruct wasn't effective enough. I was convinced that it would be complained about more than anything. That being said, Chancery Owls may indeed be too pushed for a common right now.
Azorius Proctor - Why the blank isn't this a hybrid wind drake? Mind you, I'd hate that. But this is ever so far worse...
Bold Eagle... or this. Why can't this boring piece of filler nonsense be a hybrid flying hillgiant? Also, Assault Zeppelid
Chancery Owls - (1) Obstruct has memory issues. (2) Let's assume you've never lost track of whether one of your guys was exerted... Obstruct 3 is obscene. Maybe make all of them Obstruct 1, except a rare that ups it to 2 or something.
Civil Authority - Wow, this is an unfun card.
Collective Strength - I think this could cost WG.
Function Injunction - You know... I'm almost okay with this. I'd rather something original or unique... but I suppose useful is useful. Bad pacifism is currently the best Amonkhet white card, so bad pacifism might be the best U and W commons for your set. Is that what you want? I don't.
Giant Sloth - This is overpriced in pretty much every way imaginable, and doesn't even have a real creature type. I think you're just making fun of us.
Grave Purge - I prefer reprinting something that affects the board, but it's fair.
Guild Truce - interesting design space. Guardian Lynx - Sure. Isperia’s Gaze - Meh.
Mystery Card - Does it assemble a contraption too?
Noble Pegasus - Noble pegasi don't obstruct. Just make it 1/3 flying lifelink.
Pack Dromad - Fair enough.
Selesnya Wildborn - Again, no. Either don't hae hybrid creatures or have good ones. None of this "always the worst card, never worth playing" stuff.
Sky Patrol - Can this be Flash, Flying, First Strike 3W? You know, interesting. At 1WW it'd even be worth thinking about.
Sphinx’s Inspiration - Wow, great design. Now make it a sorcery. Because that's what WOTC does.
Sylvan Squire - Come on man. Glint-Sleeve Artisan Come on.
Translocation - I like this as "bad limited card" - but I think this needs to be "flicker, and kicker to not flicker back in".
Vel-Tyra Blessing - You have a hybrid 4/4 for 5, and a monoclor 4/4 for 6. This just isn't how to cost vanillas.
Verdant Growth - This is mediocre, but fair enough. You think this is real good, I'm telling you it's okay. 2-for-1s are supposed to be bad.
To recap:
Red makes me want to quit magic.
Green is okay to decent cards.
Purple picks out good cards/interesting design space.
Most people agree Amonkhet is pretty mediocre, but look at it's white commons: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&set= [%22Amonkhet%22]&rarity=+[C]&color=+[W]
Note: Those Who Serve Vanilla, relevant creature type, fair P/T cost.
Note: Winged Shepherd Bad P/T to mana cost, but 1CMC cycling is pretty much always interesting and worth considering for reanimator strategies.
Note: Sacred Cat While the rare embalmers might see some play, this is the only common one that has any chance to. Note that it's also pretty mediocre in limited. That's useful and interesting design space you want to capture.
Note: Compulsory Rest - We all know why they made this bad. But it would have been easy to make this not badpacifism by making it cost W. Or... you know... just reprint Pacifism because it'd be interesting in this format? Heck, you could even imagine it seeing constructed play if Embalm was costed more consistently.
This set has an awful lot in common with Homelands and Mercadian Masques - spells that cost a lot of mana or were just boring.
Thanks entombedhydra. I've made some changes because I don't want you to quite Magic.
About the Hybrid Vanillas – At this point, I’m just including them so people know they exist. I have an idea as to what to do with them, but I’m trying to get the big picture into focus first.
Chancery Owls – Mana cost reduced from 3WW to 2W, effect reduced from three to two Birds, and from Obstruct 3 to 2. These stats playtested fine at cmc4 in many beta tests as well as three real life tournaments. I actually think it’s is the right way to go. Thanks BlazingRagnarok for getting me to rethink this one.
Vel-Tyra Blessing – Mana cost reduced from 4WW to 4W to maintain the curve. I actually prefer it like this. It’s very strong, but there should be just enough Voltron kryptonite in the environment to balance it.
Civil Authority – Changed to Deliberations. It’s now the Obstruct 3 card but otherwise vanilla. I want to see what Obstruct 3 will do at common and this is probably the safest way to do it.
Bold Eagle – Changed to Cirrus Griffin. Bold Eagle will return in the uncommon spoiler.
Giant Sloth – There’s nothing wrong with introducing sensible new creature types. I guess it could be a Beast, but there’s already a common white Beast. Plus I have perfect art for the card, and it doesn’t look anything like a “beast”. That being said, though it appears to be awkward (that’s no accident), it’s a late game BEAST. 6/6 first strike is no joke.
Mystery Card – Now Sunrise Ceremony. Not a fan of the name, but I like the effect.
Sky Patrol – Dropped flash, added vigilance due to mystery card. This version of Sky Patrol has already tested very well.
Sylvan Squire – I’m aware of Glint-Sleeve Artisan. I don’t mind including strictly worse cards in my set as long as they meet the needs of the set. Keep in mind that there are also some strictly better designs and nigh functional reprints. All of which are part and parcel of proper/realistic set design.
Translocation – Changed to Banish. Basically just renamed and dropped the flicker clause. Also mana cost changed from 4W to 3WW.
Re: Hybrid Vanillas - Again, I think a good set needs vanillas (MAYBE 5, if possible, at common) AND french vanillas (I think you can pop out a dozen or more of these at common or uncommon; vampire nighthawk is an example of quality. It's on the cusp on constructed playability, and that's something you want for as many cards as possible. A Bell Curve (lots of Cs, very few As and Fs) is a lot better than a reverse bell curve set for set value (IE, quality uncommons and commons can sell a set).
Re: Obstruct: I realize "10 new mechanics" means some of them are going to be worse than others, but I fear this will just be too unfun. Question: Can you turn it into a propaganda effect? It'd have the same memory issues, but it surely wouldn't be as fun - you could still DO STUFF; it's that attacking would be costly... I don't know how to cost Obstruct 2 here; but I think I'd be inclined to cost it at 2. Obstruct-Propaganda 2 is a 1-turn propaganda effect, and thus could cost 1 easily.
Owls that creates 2 tokens and Propaganda 2s could cost 2W at sorcery speed, sure. (Although Propaganda 1 might be more fair.) It'd be quite strong, actually, while Obstruct 2 is going to make for some odd plays.
I'm also not sure how Obstruct is supposed to work; does it stop counter-spells targeting the spell? Or just counterspells afterwards?
Vel-Tyra Blessing - I'm okay with this at 4W, but 3WW would also be fair. The "swingy" part is when you place it on a creature to get 4 hasty damage. The real question is how many instant speed kills spells will be in the limited format. I don't see this having any chance at constructed...
Note: Maybe do not have Thrive target? I read this as not choosing what to do until it resolves, if it targets then it's easier to 2-for-1, but if it doesn't target, then you can never get 2-for-1ed. (If 2-for-1ing is off the table, 3WW for Vel-Tyra Blessing here!)
Deliberations - This feels bad; on the one hand it's an overcosted inefficient counterpsell, on the other hand it's a timewalk. I think the real problem is that I cannot think of a mechanic that's as punishing to play against as this. I know how propaganda effects play, and although some of them are going to prevent me from winning a game (they'd function like a slow fog I see coming at sorcery speed), but I don't know how Obstruct plays. (In fact, I think it's worse than that, as playing against a deck that obstructs every turn or every other turn is akin to playing a normal game of magic where you missed your first 2 turns worth of landdrops. That's something you can test on your own, and it feels bad.)
I feel bad hating on Obstruct, as it is original and really changes up how the game plays. But it's unfun.
Cirrus Griffin - (1) 4/4 flyers at common are kind of tricky. But this costs 6 AND has a drawback? AND is 2 colors? WHYT? WHY?
How about this: Cirrus Griffin V2 3UW
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When Cirrus Griffin enters the battlefield, Obstruct 1.
3/3
3/3 flyers for 5 have a long history, and although they're usually constructed garbage, they're less constructed garbage than 4/4s for 6 that cannot block. Here's another route:
Cirrus Griffin V3 4UW
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying UW, Discard Cirrus Griffin: Draw 1 card, gain 1 life.
3/3
Pseudo-cycling here lets this be relevant at any point in the game, and thus makes this a limited playable card with possible fringe constructed playability.
Now it's a combat trick. Now it requires thought. Constructed playable? Highly unlikely unless a griffin lord reduces costs by 2-3. Final thought: No drawbacks, all plus sides, french vanilla.
PS - if it was uncommon: Cirrus Griffin V5 4UW
Creature - Griffin (U)
Flying
Flash
4/4
Still not good, but fits a Serra Angel-esque slot and counts as a combat trick.
Giant Sloth - You have art for this. I assume it's a sloth art? Sure. Is it white? I doubt it, but let's pretend you have decent (but not good enough to put on a tier 1 card) art. Here's your card:
Giant Sloth2W
Creature - Sloth (C)
If Giant Sloth attacks, it does not untap during your next untap step.
4/4
Sloths are slow, not fast. Of course, there should be a card or two in the set that give vigilance, making this a 2-card combo. My suggestion:
Reprint Always Watching at rare, and print the following:
Something Gear1
Artifact - Equipment (C)
Equip 1
Equipped creature has First Strike and vigilance.
Giant Sloth could also be great in a vehicle strategy, as it'd crew pretty much any vehicle rather efficiently.
Sunrise Ceremony - I like this. A lot. Great design. Open-ended. Fairly costed.
Sky Patrol - Can it not be a knight? I don't like knights w/o first strike. This seems fair, but I'd hope for a tribal strategy somewhere that makes this better. Maybe even a keyword lord:
Keyword Lord UWWU
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
Creatures with flying you control get +1/+1.
Creatures with vigilance you control get +1/+1.
2/2
Sylvan Squire - I understand that you can put a +1/+1 counter on another creature here, but Glint-Sleeve Artisan isn't knocking on the door of constructed playability anywhere. I think you could just make this a 2/2 for 2W. Or - gasp - make it a 1/3 for 2W. As long as it'd not a zombie, I won't worry.
This illustrates a problem with your design strategy. You want to do 2 things: (1) Create a 100% new set; no reprints, no reused block keywords and (2) you want to make it "realistic" so you're looking at things Wizards does and copies them, seemingly w/o rationale. Yes, wizards sometimes prints functionally inferior cards. But it doesn't mean they should.
In some cases, the need for simplicity for draft, or the fear that a certain tribe or archetype is going to be too strong might necessitate something being pushed down. But I don't think you can say this for Sylvan Squire. I think this could be a 2/2 for 2W that Thrive 1s. Easily. And I think it might be fair in limited, but not overwhelming. The big difference is that it can grow a flyer. But this is reason to have more competent limited removal, not less competent creatures that still have the plus side of pumping those flyers.
One of the biggest mistakes of Amonkhet was that it's removal was warped by Embalm. Black gets a fairly efficient 5 mana catch-all removal spell, rather than a 3 mana efficient-except-against-embalm removal spell. White gets a bad pacifism rather than a better-than-normal-pacifism reprint. Thus Black's tier 1 first pickable removal spell is good against the effect designed to be good against creature removal, and white's signature not-kill-spell archetype - despite still being the best common in the format (and we've got to talk about that Wizards), is actually worse than normal, and worse than the above average it would normally be.
My suggestion: Don't warp removal. Print efficient removal at common and uncommon; split between instant and sorcery speed. Instant speed removal will be slightly more efficient against thrive (targeting, or even not targeting...). Let your ANSWERS check threats, rather than nerfing the threats themselves.
Banish - Can this be sorcery speed? I know this is out of character, but this feels too good compared to Final Reward.
Out of these cards, here are my top 3 picks:
1 (tie): Chancery Owls/Banish - No doubt this depends on the format, but Owls feels like a double-timewalk that sometimes gives me evasive flyers, and Banish is just a catch-all efficient removal spell. If there are fair equipment, Owls is the clear victor; but even with Thrive alone they can get big efficiently.
2. Function Injunction - Cheap removal, punishes my opponent's biggest attacker. Also, the fact it's hybrid means I'll be competing more for these, so higher pick than normal.
3. Sunrise Ceremony - I like this more than others will, no doubt, but this works well with thrive and other CIP abilities and thus can be a strong combat trick; leading to efficient 2-for-1s. I like this with Pack Dromad, but I'd REALLY like an efficient 2-drop creature here to work with this. Can Sylvan Squire be a 1/2 for 1W with Thrive 1? T2, Sqire, token. CHump. Turn 3 Ceremony, get 1/2 back and put the counter on the token, block your opponent's two 1/1s, feel good about yourself.
Re: Obstruct: I realize "10 new mechanics" means some of them are going to be worse than others, but I fear this will just be too unfun. Question: Can you turn it into a propaganda effect? It'd have the same memory issues, but it surely wouldn't be as fun - you could still DO STUFF; it's that attacking would be costly... I don't know how to cost Obstruct 2 here; but I think I'd be inclined to cost it at 2. Obstruct-Propaganda 2 is a 1-turn propaganda effect, and thus could cost 1 easily.
Owls that creates 2 tokens and Propaganda 2s could cost 2W at sorcery speed, sure. (Although Propaganda 1 might be more fair.) It'd be quite strong, actually, while Obstruct 2 is going to make for some odd plays.
I'm also not sure how Obstruct is supposed to work; does it stop counter-spells targeting the spell? Or just counterspells afterwards?
Seconded for the propaganda thing.
Generally speaking, cards don't do anything until they resolve, except for casting triggers and certain static abilities. Obstruct is an action word, and therefore is part of a spell or ability's resolution.
@Legend: You mentioned real-world tournaments, can we get some specifics about how playtesting went? The way you described them doesn't give much to go by.
You're right BR, As written, Obstruct doesn't tax counter spells. But it would be so much better if it did. As written, you can still play a cheap (?) Obstruct spell to tax counters of future spells you play that turn. But this feels clunky at best.
In any case, proposal: New Obstruct N(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional N mana per attacking creature.)
Obstructing SenatorW
Creature - Human Adviser (C)
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 1(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 1 per attacking creature.)
1/1
Obstructing Griffin3W
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 2(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 2 per attacking creature.)
2/2
Healing Wall1W
Sorcery (C)
Gain 3 life. New Obstruct 3(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 3 per attacking creature.)
New Obstruct punishes "go wide" token strategies; and at least 2 of your keywords enable these strategies (swarm, thrive).
Oh, another worry about Owls: If two of your keywords create tokens; Swarm creating 1/1 green insects, and Thrive creating X/X green Plants (oozes), maybe don't have any other token-producers? Owls is quite powerful, but just Obstructing Griffin does more or less the same job (and you COULD reduce it to New Obstruct 1 and cost it at 2W if you wanted to).
You're right BR, As written, Obstruct doesn't tax counter spells. But it would be so much better if it did. As written, you can still play a cheap (?) Obstruct spell to tax counters of future spells you play that turn. But this feels clunky at best.
In any case, proposal: New Obstruct N(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional N mana per attacking creature.)
Obstructing SenatorW
Creature - Human Adviser (C)
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 1(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 1 per attacking creature.)
1/1
Obstructing Griffin3W
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 2(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 2 per attacking creature.)
2/2
Healing Wall1W
Sorcery (C)
Gain 3 life. New Obstruct 3(Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 3 per attacking creature.)
New Obstruct punishes "go wide" token strategies; and at least 2 of your keywords enable these strategies (swarm, thrive).
Oh, another worry about Owls: If two of your keywords create tokens; Swarm creating 1/1 green insects, and Thrive creating X/X green Plants (oozes), maybe don't have any other token-producers? Owls is quite powerful, but just Obstructing Griffin does more or less the same job (and you COULD reduce it to New Obstruct 1 and cost it at 2W if you wanted to).
Obstruct has already been through three successful real life tournaments. This is the third iteration of its mechanic suite. Believe it or not, Obstruct has actually been powered up a little bit because it was underwhelming. Of all the criticisms I was given, the one that surprised me the most was that Obstruct wasn't effective enough. I was convinced that it would be complained about more than anything. That being said, Chancery Owls may indeed be too pushed for a common right now.
Were these tournaments all drafts/sealed? Because I am 100% sure that Obstruct would absolutely crush any form of constructed where mana costs are tighter, the games are shorter, and people are much more likely to play multiple spells per turn. Draft on the other hand lasts long enough for spare mana to accrue and you can usually get by on one spell per turn except for a few key moments.
Or is this set intentionally limited-only? If so, then I could believe that it's not as strong as it seems.
Obstruct was in three draft tournaments.
Each was 3 rounds + Top 4
Allied guilds only.
1st Draft, 10 players (1 pod)
Place
1st Rakdos - AggroControl (blue splash)
2nd Gruul - Stompy
...
7th & 8th Azorius - Tempo (the archetype had no finishing power. Everyone enjoyed themselves.)
2nd Draft, 8 players (1 pod)
Place
1st Azorius - TempoControl (adding control cards to the color pair made it too good. Even the Azorius drafter felt bad about it.)
2nd Gruul - Stompy
3rd Rakdos - Aggro
3rd Draft, 14 players (2 pods of 7)
Place
1st Gruul - Stompy (black splash)
2nd Dimir - Control
3rd Selesnya - Weenie
4th Azorius - Tempo
5th Dimir - Mill (this was a pretty well balanced tournament. All of the players were very happy EDIT: Even with Obstruct.)
Re: Playtesting. No one is saying Obstruct (as is) isn't powerful. Some people have said it's too good; your top tier finishing suggests this is the case. I'm saying it's unfun to play against.
You say "everyone enjoyed themselves" but I think you need to talk about the mechanic in isolation, not whether people enjoyed the draft. Did the the Golgari player that couldn't play their fatties enjoy playing against your double-timewalk owls? It think not.
Besides, at this point I think you've been relatively clear that many of the cards (especially the hybrids) are in flux. Given the hybrids are glue cards that hold draft archetypes together, I think this means that your playtesting results are rather weak. THAT SAID, you should be interested in designing cards for constructed first, and limited second. My suggestion is to look over your mono color, then multi-color, commons in each color. If you 50% aren't on the cusp of being playable in some constructed format, that's a big problem.
Right now, let's look at the # of constructed playable cards out of your current version of white:
1. Banish C-
2. Chancery Owls A+
3. Fledgling Cockatrice C-
4. Guild Truce C-
5. Noble Pegasus B
6. Sphinx’s Inspiration (A+ as instant; C as sorcery. And it'd be a sorcery)
7. Verdant Growth C
That's 7/23.
By the way, I struggled over whether giving Sanctify a C/B, but no one wants this at sorcery speed, and hybrid makes it less attractive for EDH, the format you'd want it to be in. If this cost 2H, was an instant, and Thrived for 1... I'd have to revise my grade to a C; as it's slightly less efficient than a monocolor disenchant + thrive 1, but is the only disenchant + thrive 1 option available. If Thrive is good - or even fair - it jumps to interest, and would be a must-have in token and counter EDH GW decks. I'd also be relevant to limited, comparable to Forsake the Worldly.
Lastly, I strongly suggest you throw in some limited tribal support in your colors. Casual players like it; and it opens up some interesting constructed design space. Roughly, you'll get 5/10 of your mechanics to make a deck, and then maybe 2-3 good-stuffs deck archetypes. Throwing in a tribal theme (Tribal soldiers, insects, etc.) will give you some variety. A good constructed format should strive to have about 10+ playable archetypes, and due to the low level of power of your commons, this won't have much of an impact on standard, let alone eternal formats.
I kind of like Obstruct. It seems fair if you overcost the card by x in order to tax the opponent x, except that they pay the cost multiple times if there would have played multiple cards in the meantime. So it's power increases as you have better card draw in the format. Also, it seems stronger against blue for that reason, and maybe red and white early on, as they have more cheap spells.
You could make it a variant of Judge's familiar -- sac this creature to counter target spell unless it's controller pays x.
Another alternative would be "spells targeting this spell or creature cost x extra to for your opponents to cast".
Ok, being draft makes sense. It does make it harder to curve out on Obstruct and lock your opponent's curve, and the fact that the mechanic loses significance as the game goes on for a lategame guild cuts into its limited effectiveness. Gruul looks very strong here, so I'll keep that in mind while evaluating your green and red cards.
I've already tried going the Propaganda route for Azorius. Somewhere in my thread history, there's a thread to prove it. It creates a total standstill. No fun at all. Judge's Familiar was the inspiration for Obstruct. I wanted sorcery speed counterspells to minimize tracking and prevent a draw-go archtype in limited. Obstruct plays better - *more fun* - than it looks. Not one player complained about Obstruct despite two dedicated Obstruct decks in the first tournament, and one in each of the second and third tournaments.
Everything else appreciated and duly noted. Going to move on to the next color. Thanks again.
I don't see how Obstruct is less stand-stilly than Propaganda. The only difference is that you might have thrust Propaganda on smaller cards it's easier to chain. If that's the case, just make those cards cost more. Obstruct prevents them from playing creatures, Propaganda just prevents them from alpha striking with everyone.
In any case, from what I've seen you have plenty of ways around it - Propaganda is more or less just "Reverse exalted", and you've got a fair amount of evasion creatures, and ways to pump them (Thrive, for example). There are plenty of ways around this as well, whether it's red creatures that punish you or opponents for not attacking, or black bleed creatures, or just blue unblockables.
And I'll challenge you on how it's MORE FUN? For the player playing it, you never know if it got you tempo advantage, and for the player playing against it, YOU TIME WALK THEM. For all intents and purposes, Obstruct 2 or 3 severely handicaps your opponent - effectively timewalking minus the card draw - while Propaganda just stops go-wide strategies for a turn. It's the difference between Remand and fog, and if you build your limited environment right, not even fog as your opponent's evasion creature gets through.
And I'll challenge you on how it's MORE FUN? For the player playing it, you never know if it got you tempo advantage, and for the player playing against it, YOU TIME WALK THEM. For all intents and purposes, Obstruct 2 or 3 severely handicaps your opponent - effectively timewalking minus the card draw - while Propaganda just stops go-wide strategies for a turn. It's the difference between Remand and fog, and if you build your limited environment right, not even fog as your opponent's evasion creature gets through.
New Obstruct is cool but too similar to Detain for my liking. One of my many design goals for this set is for the guild mechanics to be distinct from their predecessors. I appreciate your input, but would now appreciate it if you'd lay off a bit because you've gone from theory crafting to theory bashing a mechanic that has already been proven to be fine. (It's just challenging to develop.) And (in a previous post) you're basically insulting me and no less than twenty other players by insinuating that none of us are smart enough to realize how #bZoRoKeNz! Obstruct actually is. You can see it, but we who have actually played with it and against it numerous times can't because we aren't as intelligent as you. That's what I'm hearing.
Oh you were thinking the bonuses never went away. Gotcha. That'd be terribly busted, and cost as much as Ghostly Prison stapled onto the cards in question. Nah, New Obstruct = "temporary propaganda."
Detain is substantively different, as it targets. Detain plays by stopping your opponent's biggest creature for 1 turn; New Obstruct stops all of their small ones.
I'm sorry if you think I'm bashing your mechanic; but it has not been "proven fine". 3 drafts/20 players is a small sample, and you said it always placed high in the draft - aka a sign of problems. And I'm not interested in whether it's balanced, I'm interested in whether it's fun.
Question: What's the least fun mechanic you've played against in magic. Why it is not fun?
Non-flying evasion is often cited as unfun. Landwalk. Fear-variants. Shadow. Horsemanship. Invisible stalker. The mechanic is said to be unfun for two reasons - (1) in the case of landwalk or fear or whatnot, it's unfun because it ignores skill and goes to luck. Oh, I'm sorry, did you draft green? My mediocre 2/1 for 1C is now unblockable. Good luck drawing your removal spell while I walk past all your blockers. (2) in teh case of shadow, horsemanship, and especially invisible stalker, it's unfun because it bypasses the normal rules of the game. Creatures block, but now mine can't.
Do you think Obstruct does either of these things? Introduce randomness? Bypass normal rules of the game? You know how I and others feel. I've compared obstruct to timewalk multiple times. I'd be interested to hear whether your playtesters ever felt time-walked by it. That said, if you can honestly say you think it does neither of these things, feel free to dismiss criticism. All I can tell you is that I think the mechanic is an A+ in design, and an F in fun (for lack thereof). It's a remarkably weird grade to give.
Edit: PS, I'd like to remind you that I think Swarm and Thrive are both really interesting mechanics that play differently and have substantive implications for limited.
I just want your White/Blue? mechanic to be comparably fun. Temporary Propaganda has clear strategic advantages in this format, while Obstruct... basically warps the format. I honestly cannot tell you how I'm supposed to deck build when my opponent can obstruct me at any time. Do I just run all small creatures? Do I run more small creatures than normal? Do I draft creatures with activated abilities so that when I've been obstructed, I do semi-inefficient things rather than spend my whole turn playing a 2/2 for 1G+3?
I'm no fan of white removal that can freely hit any creature, so I obviously hate Banish.
Chancery Owls says "obstruct 2" but the reminder says . Which is correct? (I didn't have the time to read the whole thread. The discrepancy should still be fixed.)
Cirrus Griffin is kinda awkward to evaluate. I commented previously about common 4/4s in white (multicolor doesn't help since blue doesn't get anything like them either). Flying is even more over the top (and the no block is only mildly relevant). Plus this is a very unusual cost for a UW multicolor card. Instead of being flavored as a primarily white flying thing, could this be made into a 4/4 Serpent with first strike or some other white ability instead?
I really like Collective Strength as Sigil Blessing for extra . Thumb up!
Deliberations is neat and simple, but I really want a small effect tacked on it, like giving vigilance to/untapping something, or life gain.
Giant Sloth is a nice finisher common. Is there a trample-granting effect in green? Have you considered what happens once people thrive it?
White Cremate can totally be an instant (Purify the Grave. Besides, I don't think it can be used to answer Swarm at instant speed anyway). I would advise against Grave Purge as a name because, y'know... Gravepurge is a thing.
I like the idea of Guild Truce, but it's traditionally seen as poor form to include an efficient card that nullifies (as opposed to being merely an answer) a significant portion of a set's theme in the set itself.
I don't like the idea of white getting shadow abilities as on Guardian Lynx. I'd be fine if it was a 1/1 getting +0/+2 or some sort of trigger instead though.
Noble Pegasus is a great example of simplicity. Love it.
Pack Dromad might be a 2-life card, but it's one of those things that needs a lot of playtesting to be sure of.
Sanctify just reinforces my dislike of Banish, plus I think it's a little undercosted as a hybrid (while that depends in part of what's in the set ench/art wise, I'm also trying to think of nonrotating formats).
I'd keep Sky Patrol as is only if Cirrus Griffin shrinks significantly or loses flying.
I belong to the "untargetted draw" clan myself, but otherwise I really like Sphinx’s Inspiration. Another epitome of simplicity. The card is not a problem, but I think you'll want to make sure you got a mono-u draw spell still. The common draw spells in Alara, ravnica and khans were mostly mono-U (the lone except is consult the necrosages, balanced by Flight of Fancy)
Sunrise Ceremony is nowhere near a white common. Either returning nonland permanents in general (as opposed to enchantment or artifact/equipment) or doing so to the battlefield alone would push it out of common. PLUS it's redflagged for converted mana cost.
I don't think I'll rehash my previous counters-related arguments Vel-Tyra Blessing.
One thing I'd note about obstruct, especially at the places on the mana curve you have it (2 for 3, 3 for 4, 1 for 2) is that it essentially sets the opponent back to playing a 1 or 2 drop (depending on if on play or draw). So in this environment I'd want to have some pushed or at least playable 1 drops (spells or creatures) in other colors so they would have the option of doing something on their turn, if only after sideboarding perhaps.
Something like a red goblin guide variant or green 1 drop mana dork or black duress.
One thing I'd note about obstruct, especially at the places on the mana curve you have it (2 for 3, 3 for 4, 1 for 2) is that it essentially sets the opponent back to playing a 1 or 2 drop (depending on if on play or draw). So in this environment I'd want to have some pushed or at least playable 1 drops (spells or creatures) in other colors so they would have the option of doing something on their turn, if only after sideboarding perhaps.
Something like a red goblin guide variant or green 1 drop mana dork or black duress.
I'm not sure this is going to be enough. Let's pretend you're running monoW control. Your deck is comprised of all of the obstruct cards here, as well as the "chase rare" obstruct signature card not shown here but we know exists because of course it does, whatever 4-6 mana Wrath variant wizards has (with the return of core sets, I think we can assume we might even have 2 or 3 playable variants thereof), and let's say a finisher that evades the wrathing - a vehicle, an indesctructible, a blinker, whatever.
Your opponent is playing aggro. Turn 1: 1 Drop. Turn 2: Oops, Pegasus, another 1 drop. Turn 3: Obstructed for 2, ANOTHER 1 drop. Turn 4, Oh my, no obstruct, I'll play my two 2 drops. Turn 5, attacks into opponent's tokens. Got no damage in. But I get to play the rest of my hand! Opponent wraths. So... to curve out against this deck, my optimum hand has to have 3 1 drops AND 3 lands. Mind you, this is only 1/10th of the metagame; Thrive and Swarm decks pop out tokens like no one's business. And let's Pretend Wizards just obsoletes Isamaru, Hound of Konda for every aggro color and prints a goblin guide in those colors as well. (Maybe the last block had kicker, so I can run Kavu Titan as a 5/5 against every deck except Obstruct, and as a 2/2 against Obstruct!)
Azorius Proctor - Hybrid mana is done so rarely, I'd rather these be noteworthy. Noteworthy vanillas - french or otherwise - usually have to cost 3 mana or less and have relevant creature types. Is there any way we can slap something this can do in the early game onto this? Cycling for H would be awesome; but I know it's not in your set...
Why is Collective Strength not WG? Did playtesting find this too strong? Can the +3/+3 one get trample to make up for the increased cost? Hexproof until end of turn? Remove all curses from it?
Concordia Pegasus I like reprints. I wish this was a reprint someone could get excited about... but this plays a clear role in limited (although that role is stalls the air...).
Giant Sloth - This still feels like to dynamic of a sloth.
I still think Function Injunction could cost 1H. It's not winning any beauty contests even at that cost.
Guardian Lynx - Can it have Vigilance? 1/2 for H with Vigilance is... worth thinking about in some decks, and as a 1 drop probably isn't going to affect limited much. If you had more equipment, I'd take notice... but w/o clear equipment at common and uncommon, this guy is outclassed almost immediately, even with vigilance.
Hussar Elite - Fair enough. I still wonder if 2WU for Flash, Flying, and First Strike on a 2/2 (or 2/3?) would be fair here. 3 keywords might be "too complex" for a common, but meh. Still, this is fine.
Single Out - This version is quite strong. Can the opponent choose which is bounced? That would lead to some interesting play decisions... and still be powerful. Also, maybe "Call out" or "Point out", as if you're tapping 2 creatures, it's odd to have "Single" in the name.
Spirit of Procrastination - This feels really strong.
Stay of Execution - Black gets this with upside as an instant for B. Supernatural Stamina. Can this just be Supernatural Stamina in white and give it lifelink instead of the power bonus?
Temporary Blockade - I like this. It feels really interesting and fun, and potentially bad? Very nice design.
Vel-Tyra Blessing & Verdant Growth (Common) - Either make the 3 drop an instant, or cut it.
Function Injunction - White's mana curve is a skunk hair too low so this is actually just right. Not to mention it's consistent with convention (as seen in the links).
Verdant Growth - It will definitely be changed to an instant if it playtests poorly as a sorcery.
Guardian Lynx - The cycle is vanilla. Not French vanilla, as tempting as that is. There is only one Equipment at common, but the Lynx should do quite well (with or) without it thanks to Thrive. Giving it Vigilance would be too easy. Besides, Hussar Elite is the common vigilant creature. And too much Vigilance would devalue Temporary Blockade.
Stay of Execution - Maybe. Honestly, I'd like to find a way to make it worth 2WW but remain simple. Lifelink isn't a bad idea, though the flavor of that is a tad off. I'll revisit SoE after I revamp black.
Function Injunction is a bad pacifism in white, and I think blue got a 2 drop of this effect too.
VG- the question isn't how it playtests, but what it does. At instant, it's a combat trick or flash, which contrasts nicely with your thrive sorcery... as is, it's the same card twice with slightly different numbers. When it was a 2/2 for 2 - a bear - it was a fine sorcery. But now it's a modal gray ogre, and that's quite insulting.
Re: Hybrid Cycle: As discussed before, vanilla is useless at hybrid. Can you imagine a decklist in standard running the card? No. Of course not. It's useless. Being easier to cast means that THE BEST Hybrid vanilla is still worse than THE BEST non-hybrid vanilla. And I don't even think you're doing for "the best" (which could be fair design theory, but leads to a cycle of cards no one wants to open and few want in their draft deck).
Meanwhile, if you make relevant creature types and french vanilla; you slip in keywords of relevance. A 1/2 vigilance for H will see next to no play. Making it a 1/2 nothing vanilla doesn't help it. And there's no wiggle room to add anything else to it as a vanilla. You won't print a 1/3, won't print a 2/2, and a 2/1 H is already obsoleted.
Re: Stay: This doesn't really feel like an aura (yes, some auras work like this... but it's not how you would describe auras; it's how you'd describe an instant.)
There's a lot of good here. But I strongly suggest you take your vanillas to colors, and make the hybrids french vanillas. You get more bang for your creative buck there.
There is - of course - a possibility that you need to cut power on cards for limited gameplay. But quite a few cards you've "made bad" are not bad for limited gamplay reasons. Which begs the question: Are they bad because you don't want to put the time in to make them as good as possible (within relevant design constraints)? you got something better to do than make your hybrid 1 drop something that will make some player excited somewhere?
Azorius Proctor (Common)
4(W/U)
Creature - Vedalken Soldier
3/5
Part of the revised vanilla hybrid cycle.
Banish (Common)
3WW
Sorcery
Exile target nonland permanent.
Sorcery speed and double colored mana so as not to completely obsolete cards like Final Reward.
Bone Collector (Common)
GW
Creature - Human Cleric
1/1
Whenever another creature you control dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Bone Collector.
Chancery Owls (Common)
2W
Sorcery
Create two 1/1 white Bird creature tokens with flying.
Obstruct 2. (Spells your opponents cast cost 2 more to cast until your next turn.)
The strongest of the Obstruct commons. Has been playtested extensively by myself and about twenty other idiots. We think it's fine.
Collective Strength (Common)
1GW
Instant
Until end of turn, target creature you control gets +3/+3 and other creatures you control get +1/+1.
Concordia Pegasus (Common)
1W
Creature – Pegasus
1/3
Flying
I'm trying to have at least one reprint in each color at common.
Epitaph (Common)
W
Sorcery
Exile target card from a graveyard.
Draw a card.
Function Injunction (Common)
2(W/U)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s untap step.
Giant Sloth (Common)
5W
Creature – Sloth
3/3
First strike
5G: Giant Sloth gets +3/+3 until end of turn.
It may seem odd, but five-six mana is actually normal for a common 3/3 with first strike.
Griffin Perch (Common)
2WW
Creature - Wall
0/5
Defender
1W: Griffin Perch loses defender and becomes a 3/3 Griffin with flying until end of turn.
Guild Truce (Common)
W
Instant
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn by multicolored creatures.
Guardian Lynx (Common)
(G/W)
Creature – Cat
1/2
Part of the revised vanilla hybrid cycle.
Hussar Elite (Common)
2WU
Creature - Human Knight
2/4
Flying
Vigilance
I was sure that there was a plethora of common four mana white and/or blue 2/4's with flying. Turns out there aren't that many.
Pack Dromad (Common)
2W
Creature – Beast
2/3
When Pack Dromad enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life.
Sanctify (Common)
2(G/W)
Sorcery
Exile target artifact or enchantment.
You gain 3 life.
Single Out (Common)
1W
Instant
Tap up to two target creatures. If U was spent to cast Single Out, return one of those creatures to its owner's hand.
Sphinx’s Inspiration (Common)
1WU
Instant
Target player gains 2 life and draws two cards.
A common nod to Sphinx's Revelation.
Spirit of Procrastination (Common)
W
Creature - Spirit Advisor
1/1
When Spirit of Procrastination enters the battlefield, obstruct 1. (Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more to cast until your next turn.)
Stay of Execution (Common)
2W
Enchantment — Aura
Flash (You may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant.)
Enchant creature
When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner’s control.
Sylvan Squire (Common)
1W
Creature – Elf Soldier
1/1
When Sylvan Squire enters the battlefield, thrive 1. (Create a 1/1 green Plant creature token or put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.)
Temporary Blockade (Common)
1W
Sorcery
Untap all creatures you control.
Obstruct 1. (Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more to cast until your next turn.)
Vel-Tyra Blessing (Common)
4W
Sorcery
Thrive 4. (Create a 4/4 green Plant creature token or put four +1/+1 counters on target creature.)
Verdant Growth (Common)
2W
Sorcery
Thrive 2. (Create a 2/2 green Plant creature token or put two +1/+1 counters on target creature.)
Other comments:
The idea of a white cockatrice is a little strange, though not as strange as a Selesnya-aligned creature with deathtouch. Green is very much a secondary color for the mechanic, as evidenced by the all of two non-black multicolored green cards with deathtouch.
Sphinx's Inspiration is very pushed for a common. Adding lifegain to Divination is already worth the extra color at common. Making it an instant justifies a rarity upgrade to uncommon unless you make it a 4 drop.
I get what you're trying to do with Translocation, but flicker and unconditional exile are at two polar opposite ends of the CMC spectrum. What we have here is a premium piece of removal that nobody will want to use to protect their creatures.
Bold Eagle... or this. Why can't this boring piece of filler nonsense be a hybrid flying hillgiant? Also, Assault Zeppelid
Chancery Owls - (1) Obstruct has memory issues. (2) Let's assume you've never lost track of whether one of your guys was exerted... Obstruct 3 is obscene. Maybe make all of them Obstruct 1, except a rare that ups it to 2 or something.
Civil Authority - Wow, this is an unfun card.
Collective Strength - I think this could cost WG.
Function Injunction - You know... I'm almost okay with this. I'd rather something original or unique... but I suppose useful is useful. Bad pacifism is currently the best Amonkhet white card, so bad pacifism might be the best U and W commons for your set. Is that what you want? I don't.
Giant Sloth - This is overpriced in pretty much every way imaginable, and doesn't even have a real creature type. I think you're just making fun of us.
Grave Purge - I prefer reprinting something that affects the board, but it's fair.
Guild Truce - interesting design space. Guardian Lynx - Sure. Isperia’s Gaze - Meh.
Mystery Card - Does it assemble a contraption too?
Noble Pegasus - Noble pegasi don't obstruct. Just make it 1/3 flying lifelink.
Pack Dromad - Fair enough.
Selesnya Wildborn - Again, no. Either don't hae hybrid creatures or have good ones. None of this "always the worst card, never worth playing" stuff.
Sky Patrol - Can this be Flash, Flying, First Strike 3W? You know, interesting. At 1WW it'd even be worth thinking about.
Sphinx’s Inspiration - Wow, great design. Now make it a sorcery. Because that's what WOTC does.
Sylvan Squire - Come on man. Glint-Sleeve Artisan Come on.
Translocation - I like this as "bad limited card" - but I think this needs to be "flicker, and kicker to not flicker back in".
Vel-Tyra Blessing - You have a hybrid 4/4 for 5, and a monoclor 4/4 for 6. This just isn't how to cost vanillas.
Verdant Growth - This is mediocre, but fair enough. You think this is real good, I'm telling you it's okay. 2-for-1s are supposed to be bad.
To recap:
Red makes me want to quit magic.
Green is okay to decent cards.
Purple picks out good cards/interesting design space.
Most people agree Amonkhet is pretty mediocre, but look at it's white commons:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&set= [%22Amonkhet%22]&rarity=+[C]&color=+[W]
Note: Those Who Serve Vanilla, relevant creature type, fair P/T cost.
Note: Winged Shepherd Bad P/T to mana cost, but 1CMC cycling is pretty much always interesting and worth considering for reanimator strategies.
Note: Sacred Cat While the rare embalmers might see some play, this is the only common one that has any chance to. Note that it's also pretty mediocre in limited. That's useful and interesting design space you want to capture.
Note: Compulsory Rest - We all know why they made this bad. But it would have been easy to make this not bad pacifism by making it cost W. Or... you know... just reprint Pacifism because it'd be interesting in this format? Heck, you could even imagine it seeing constructed play if Embalm was costed more consistently.
This set has an awful lot in common with Homelands and Mercadian Masques - spells that cost a lot of mana or were just boring.
About the Hybrid Vanillas – At this point, I’m just including them so people know they exist. I have an idea as to what to do with them, but I’m trying to get the big picture into focus first.
Chancery Owls – Mana cost reduced from 3WW to 2W, effect reduced from three to two Birds, and from Obstruct 3 to 2. These stats playtested fine at cmc4 in many beta tests as well as three real life tournaments. I actually think it’s is the right way to go. Thanks BlazingRagnarok for getting me to rethink this one.
Vel-Tyra Blessing – Mana cost reduced from 4WW to 4W to maintain the curve. I actually prefer it like this. It’s very strong, but there should be just enough Voltron kryptonite in the environment to balance it.
Civil Authority – Changed to Deliberations. It’s now the Obstruct 3 card but otherwise vanilla. I want to see what Obstruct 3 will do at common and this is probably the safest way to do it.
Bold Eagle – Changed to Cirrus Griffin. Bold Eagle will return in the uncommon spoiler.
Giant Sloth – There’s nothing wrong with introducing sensible new creature types. I guess it could be a Beast, but there’s already a common white Beast. Plus I have perfect art for the card, and it doesn’t look anything like a “beast”. That being said, though it appears to be awkward (that’s no accident), it’s a late game BEAST. 6/6 first strike is no joke.
Mystery Card – Now Sunrise Ceremony. Not a fan of the name, but I like the effect.
Sky Patrol – Dropped flash, added vigilance due to mystery card. This version of Sky Patrol has already tested very well.
Sylvan Squire – I’m aware of Glint-Sleeve Artisan. I don’t mind including strictly worse cards in my set as long as they meet the needs of the set. Keep in mind that there are also some strictly better designs and nigh functional reprints. All of which are part and parcel of proper/realistic set design.
Translocation – Changed to Banish. Basically just renamed and dropped the flicker clause. Also mana cost changed from 4W to 3WW.
Re: Obstruct: I realize "10 new mechanics" means some of them are going to be worse than others, but I fear this will just be too unfun. Question: Can you turn it into a propaganda effect? It'd have the same memory issues, but it surely wouldn't be as fun - you could still DO STUFF; it's that attacking would be costly... I don't know how to cost Obstruct 2 here; but I think I'd be inclined to cost it at 2. Obstruct-Propaganda 2 is a 1-turn propaganda effect, and thus could cost 1 easily.
Owls that creates 2 tokens and Propaganda 2s could cost 2W at sorcery speed, sure. (Although Propaganda 1 might be more fair.) It'd be quite strong, actually, while Obstruct 2 is going to make for some odd plays.
I'm also not sure how Obstruct is supposed to work; does it stop counter-spells targeting the spell? Or just counterspells afterwards?
Vel-Tyra Blessing - I'm okay with this at 4W, but 3WW would also be fair. The "swingy" part is when you place it on a creature to get 4 hasty damage. The real question is how many instant speed kills spells will be in the limited format. I don't see this having any chance at constructed...
Note: Maybe do not have Thrive target? I read this as not choosing what to do until it resolves, if it targets then it's easier to 2-for-1, but if it doesn't target, then you can never get 2-for-1ed. (If 2-for-1ing is off the table, 3WW for Vel-Tyra Blessing here!)
Deliberations - This feels bad; on the one hand it's an overcosted inefficient counterpsell, on the other hand it's a timewalk. I think the real problem is that I cannot think of a mechanic that's as punishing to play against as this. I know how propaganda effects play, and although some of them are going to prevent me from winning a game (they'd function like a slow fog I see coming at sorcery speed), but I don't know how Obstruct plays. (In fact, I think it's worse than that, as playing against a deck that obstructs every turn or every other turn is akin to playing a normal game of magic where you missed your first 2 turns worth of landdrops. That's something you can test on your own, and it feels bad.)
I feel bad hating on Obstruct, as it is original and really changes up how the game plays. But it's unfun.
Cirrus Griffin - (1) 4/4 flyers at common are kind of tricky. But this costs 6 AND has a drawback? AND is 2 colors? WHYT? WHY?
How about this:
Cirrus Griffin V2 3UW
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When Cirrus Griffin enters the battlefield, Obstruct 1.
3/3
3/3 flyers for 5 have a long history, and although they're usually constructed garbage, they're less constructed garbage than 4/4s for 6 that cannot block. Here's another route:
Cirrus Griffin V3 4UW
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
UW, Discard Cirrus Griffin: Draw 1 card, gain 1 life.
3/3
Pseudo-cycling here lets this be relevant at any point in the game, and thus makes this a limited playable card with possible fringe constructed playability.
Final:
Cirrus Griffin V3 4UW
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying, Flash, Lifelink (or First Strike)
3/3
Now it's a combat trick. Now it requires thought. Constructed playable? Highly unlikely unless a griffin lord reduces costs by 2-3. Final thought: No drawbacks, all plus sides, french vanilla.
PS - if it was uncommon:
Cirrus Griffin V5 4UW
Creature - Griffin (U)
Flying
Flash
4/4
Still not good, but fits a Serra Angel-esque slot and counts as a combat trick.
Giant Sloth - You have art for this. I assume it's a sloth art? Sure. Is it white? I doubt it, but let's pretend you have decent (but not good enough to put on a tier 1 card) art. Here's your card:
Giant Sloth 2W
Creature - Sloth (C)
If Giant Sloth attacks, it does not untap during your next untap step.
4/4
Sloths are slow, not fast. Of course, there should be a card or two in the set that give vigilance, making this a 2-card combo. My suggestion:
Reprint Always Watching at rare, and print the following:
Something Gear 1
Artifact - Equipment (C)
Equip 1
Equipped creature has First Strike and vigilance.
Giant Sloth could also be great in a vehicle strategy, as it'd crew pretty much any vehicle rather efficiently.
Sunrise Ceremony - I like this. A lot. Great design. Open-ended. Fairly costed.
Sky Patrol - Can it not be a knight? I don't like knights w/o first strike. This seems fair, but I'd hope for a tribal strategy somewhere that makes this better. Maybe even a keyword lord:
Keyword Lord UW WU
Creature - Human Wizard (U)
Creatures with flying you control get +1/+1.
Creatures with vigilance you control get +1/+1.
2/2
Sylvan Squire - I understand that you can put a +1/+1 counter on another creature here, but Glint-Sleeve Artisan isn't knocking on the door of constructed playability anywhere. I think you could just make this a 2/2 for 2W. Or - gasp - make it a 1/3 for 2W. As long as it'd not a zombie, I won't worry.
This illustrates a problem with your design strategy. You want to do 2 things: (1) Create a 100% new set; no reprints, no reused block keywords and (2) you want to make it "realistic" so you're looking at things Wizards does and copies them, seemingly w/o rationale. Yes, wizards sometimes prints functionally inferior cards. But it doesn't mean they should.
In some cases, the need for simplicity for draft, or the fear that a certain tribe or archetype is going to be too strong might necessitate something being pushed down. But I don't think you can say this for Sylvan Squire. I think this could be a 2/2 for 2W that Thrive 1s. Easily. And I think it might be fair in limited, but not overwhelming. The big difference is that it can grow a flyer. But this is reason to have more competent limited removal, not less competent creatures that still have the plus side of pumping those flyers.
One of the biggest mistakes of Amonkhet was that it's removal was warped by Embalm. Black gets a fairly efficient 5 mana catch-all removal spell, rather than a 3 mana efficient-except-against-embalm removal spell. White gets a bad pacifism rather than a better-than-normal-pacifism reprint. Thus Black's tier 1 first pickable removal spell is good against the effect designed to be good against creature removal, and white's signature not-kill-spell archetype - despite still being the best common in the format (and we've got to talk about that Wizards), is actually worse than normal, and worse than the above average it would normally be.
My suggestion: Don't warp removal. Print efficient removal at common and uncommon; split between instant and sorcery speed. Instant speed removal will be slightly more efficient against thrive (targeting, or even not targeting...). Let your ANSWERS check threats, rather than nerfing the threats themselves.
Banish - Can this be sorcery speed? I know this is out of character, but this feels too good compared to Final Reward.
Out of these cards, here are my top 3 picks:
1 (tie): Chancery Owls/Banish - No doubt this depends on the format, but Owls feels like a double-timewalk that sometimes gives me evasive flyers, and Banish is just a catch-all efficient removal spell. If there are fair equipment, Owls is the clear victor; but even with Thrive alone they can get big efficiently.
2. Function Injunction - Cheap removal, punishes my opponent's biggest attacker. Also, the fact it's hybrid means I'll be competing more for these, so higher pick than normal.
3. Sunrise Ceremony - I like this more than others will, no doubt, but this works well with thrive and other CIP abilities and thus can be a strong combat trick; leading to efficient 2-for-1s. I like this with Pack Dromad, but I'd REALLY like an efficient 2-drop creature here to work with this. Can Sylvan Squire be a 1/2 for 1W with Thrive 1? T2, Sqire, token. CHump. Turn 3 Ceremony, get 1/2 back and put the counter on the token, block your opponent's two 1/1s, feel good about yourself.
Seconded for the propaganda thing.
Generally speaking, cards don't do anything until they resolve, except for casting triggers and certain static abilities. Obstruct is an action word, and therefore is part of a spell or ability's resolution.
@Legend: You mentioned real-world tournaments, can we get some specifics about how playtesting went? The way you described them doesn't give much to go by.
In any case, proposal:
New Obstruct N (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional N mana per attacking creature.)
Obstructing Senator W
Creature - Human Adviser (C)
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 1 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 1 per attacking creature.)
1/1
Obstructing Griffin 3W
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 2 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 2 per attacking creature.)
2/2
Healing Wall 1W
Sorcery (C)
Gain 3 life.
New Obstruct 3 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 3 per attacking creature.)
New Obstruct punishes "go wide" token strategies; and at least 2 of your keywords enable these strategies (swarm, thrive).
Oh, another worry about Owls: If two of your keywords create tokens; Swarm creating 1/1 green insects, and Thrive creating X/X green Plants (oozes), maybe don't have any other token-producers? Owls is quite powerful, but just Obstructing Griffin does more or less the same job (and you COULD reduce it to New Obstruct 1 and cost it at 2W if you wanted to).
In any case, proposal:
New Obstruct N (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional N mana per attacking creature.)
Obstructing Senator W
Creature - Human Adviser (C)
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 1 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 1 per attacking creature.)
1/1
Obstructing Griffin 3W
Creature - Griffin (C)
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battelfield, New Obstruct 2 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 2 per attacking creature.)
2/2
Healing Wall 1W
Sorcery (C)
Gain 3 life.
New Obstruct 3 (Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you unless their controller pays an additional 3 per attacking creature.)
New Obstruct punishes "go wide" token strategies; and at least 2 of your keywords enable these strategies (swarm, thrive).
Oh, another worry about Owls: If two of your keywords create tokens; Swarm creating 1/1 green insects, and Thrive creating X/X green Plants (oozes), maybe don't have any other token-producers? Owls is quite powerful, but just Obstructing Griffin does more or less the same job (and you COULD reduce it to New Obstruct 1 and cost it at 2W if you wanted to).
Were these tournaments all drafts/sealed? Because I am 100% sure that Obstruct would absolutely crush any form of constructed where mana costs are tighter, the games are shorter, and people are much more likely to play multiple spells per turn. Draft on the other hand lasts long enough for spare mana to accrue and you can usually get by on one spell per turn except for a few key moments.
Or is this set intentionally limited-only? If so, then I could believe that it's not as strong as it seems.
- Rabid Wombat
Each was 3 rounds + Top 4
Allied guilds only.
1st Draft, 10 players (1 pod)
Place
1st Rakdos - AggroControl (blue splash)
2nd Gruul - Stompy
...
7th & 8th Azorius - Tempo (the archetype had no finishing power. Everyone enjoyed themselves.)
2nd Draft, 8 players (1 pod)
Place
1st Azorius - TempoControl (adding control cards to the color pair made it too good. Even the Azorius drafter felt bad about it.)
2nd Gruul - Stompy
3rd Rakdos - Aggro
3rd Draft, 14 players (2 pods of 7)
Place
1st Gruul - Stompy (black splash)
2nd Dimir - Control
3rd Selesnya - Weenie
4th Azorius - Tempo
5th Dimir - Mill (this was a pretty well balanced tournament. All of the players were very happy EDIT: Even with Obstruct.)
You say "everyone enjoyed themselves" but I think you need to talk about the mechanic in isolation, not whether people enjoyed the draft. Did the the Golgari player that couldn't play their fatties enjoy playing against your double-timewalk owls? It think not.
Besides, at this point I think you've been relatively clear that many of the cards (especially the hybrids) are in flux. Given the hybrids are glue cards that hold draft archetypes together, I think this means that your playtesting results are rather weak. THAT SAID, you should be interested in designing cards for constructed first, and limited second. My suggestion is to look over your mono color, then multi-color, commons in each color. If you 50% aren't on the cusp of being playable in some constructed format, that's a big problem.
For reference, again:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&set= [%22Amonkhet%22]&rarity=+[C]&color=+[W]
By my count, 19 commons in found in boosters.
Fringe playable cards:
Anointer Priest
Binding Mummy
Cartouche of Solidarity
Fan Bearer
Forsake the Worldly
Gust Walker
In Oketra's Name
Sacred Cat
Winged Shepherd
9/19 with some eye for constructed (some in casual tribal, some in pauper, some in EDH). And this is generally regarded as a weak set. If Embalm had been stronger (Say on Unwavering Initiate) and other cards in the next set, reprinting Pacifism over Compulsory Rest might have seen some interesting fringe constructed play, as a means of shutting down certain threats (indestructible or embalm) better than traditional removal. Furthermore, an Astral Slide-style enabler might make Djeru's Resolve on the cusp of playable as well.
Right now, let's look at the # of constructed playable cards out of your current version of white:
1. Banish C-
2. Chancery Owls A+
3. Fledgling Cockatrice C-
4. Guild Truce C-
5. Noble Pegasus B
6. Sphinx’s Inspiration (A+ as instant; C as sorcery. And it'd be a sorcery)
7. Verdant Growth C
That's 7/23.
By the way, I struggled over whether giving Sanctify a C/B, but no one wants this at sorcery speed, and hybrid makes it less attractive for EDH, the format you'd want it to be in. If this cost 2H, was an instant, and Thrived for 1... I'd have to revise my grade to a C; as it's slightly less efficient than a monocolor disenchant + thrive 1, but is the only disenchant + thrive 1 option available. If Thrive is good - or even fair - it jumps to interest, and would be a must-have in token and counter EDH GW decks. I'd also be relevant to limited, comparable to Forsake the Worldly.
Lastly, I strongly suggest you throw in some limited tribal support in your colors. Casual players like it; and it opens up some interesting constructed design space. Roughly, you'll get 5/10 of your mechanics to make a deck, and then maybe 2-3 good-stuffs deck archetypes. Throwing in a tribal theme (Tribal soldiers, insects, etc.) will give you some variety. A good constructed format should strive to have about 10+ playable archetypes, and due to the low level of power of your commons, this won't have much of an impact on standard, let alone eternal formats.
You could make it a variant of Judge's familiar -- sac this creature to counter target spell unless it's controller pays x.
Another alternative would be "spells targeting this spell or creature cost x extra to for your opponents to cast".
Everything else appreciated and duly noted. Going to move on to the next color. Thanks again.
In any case, from what I've seen you have plenty of ways around it - Propaganda is more or less just "Reverse exalted", and you've got a fair amount of evasion creatures, and ways to pump them (Thrive, for example). There are plenty of ways around this as well, whether it's red creatures that punish you or opponents for not attacking, or black bleed creatures, or just blue unblockables.
And I'll challenge you on how it's MORE FUN? For the player playing it, you never know if it got you tempo advantage, and for the player playing against it, YOU TIME WALK THEM. For all intents and purposes, Obstruct 2 or 3 severely handicaps your opponent - effectively timewalking minus the card draw - while Propaganda just stops go-wide strategies for a turn. It's the difference between Remand and fog, and if you build your limited environment right, not even fog as your opponent's evasion creature gets through.
I misread "New Obstruct". I thought it was literally like Propaganda.
New Obstruct is cool but too similar to Detain for my liking. One of my many design goals for this set is for the guild mechanics to be distinct from their predecessors. I appreciate your input, but would now appreciate it if you'd lay off a bit because you've gone from theory crafting to theory bashing a mechanic that has already been proven to be fine. (It's just challenging to develop.) And (in a previous post) you're basically insulting me and no less than twenty other players by insinuating that none of us are smart enough to realize how #bZoRoKeNz! Obstruct actually is. You can see it, but we who have actually played with it and against it numerous times can't because we aren't as intelligent as you. That's what I'm hearing.
Detain is substantively different, as it targets. Detain plays by stopping your opponent's biggest creature for 1 turn; New Obstruct stops all of their small ones.
I'm sorry if you think I'm bashing your mechanic; but it has not been "proven fine". 3 drafts/20 players is a small sample, and you said it always placed high in the draft - aka a sign of problems. And I'm not interested in whether it's balanced, I'm interested in whether it's fun.
Question: What's the least fun mechanic you've played against in magic. Why it is not fun?
Non-flying evasion is often cited as unfun. Landwalk. Fear-variants. Shadow. Horsemanship. Invisible stalker. The mechanic is said to be unfun for two reasons - (1) in the case of landwalk or fear or whatnot, it's unfun because it ignores skill and goes to luck. Oh, I'm sorry, did you draft green? My mediocre 2/1 for 1C is now unblockable. Good luck drawing your removal spell while I walk past all your blockers. (2) in teh case of shadow, horsemanship, and especially invisible stalker, it's unfun because it bypasses the normal rules of the game. Creatures block, but now mine can't.
Do you think Obstruct does either of these things? Introduce randomness? Bypass normal rules of the game? You know how I and others feel. I've compared obstruct to timewalk multiple times. I'd be interested to hear whether your playtesters ever felt time-walked by it. That said, if you can honestly say you think it does neither of these things, feel free to dismiss criticism. All I can tell you is that I think the mechanic is an A+ in design, and an F in fun (for lack thereof). It's a remarkably weird grade to give.
Edit: PS, I'd like to remind you that I think Swarm and Thrive are both really interesting mechanics that play differently and have substantive implications for limited.
I just want your White/Blue? mechanic to be comparably fun. Temporary Propaganda has clear strategic advantages in this format, while Obstruct... basically warps the format. I honestly cannot tell you how I'm supposed to deck build when my opponent can obstruct me at any time. Do I just run all small creatures? Do I run more small creatures than normal? Do I draft creatures with activated abilities so that when I've been obstructed, I do semi-inefficient things rather than spend my whole turn playing a 2/2 for 1G+3?
Chancery Owls says "obstruct 2" but the reminder says . Which is correct?(I didn't have the time to read the whole thread. The discrepancy should still be fixed.)Something like a red goblin guide variant or green 1 drop mana dork or black duress.
I'm not sure this is going to be enough. Let's pretend you're running monoW control. Your deck is comprised of all of the obstruct cards here, as well as the "chase rare" obstruct signature card not shown here but we know exists because of course it does, whatever 4-6 mana Wrath variant wizards has (with the return of core sets, I think we can assume we might even have 2 or 3 playable variants thereof), and let's say a finisher that evades the wrathing - a vehicle, an indesctructible, a blinker, whatever.
Your opponent is playing aggro. Turn 1: 1 Drop. Turn 2: Oops, Pegasus, another 1 drop. Turn 3: Obstructed for 2, ANOTHER 1 drop. Turn 4, Oh my, no obstruct, I'll play my two 2 drops. Turn 5, attacks into opponent's tokens. Got no damage in. But I get to play the rest of my hand! Opponent wraths. So... to curve out against this deck, my optimum hand has to have 3 1 drops AND 3 lands. Mind you, this is only 1/10th of the metagame; Thrive and Swarm decks pop out tokens like no one's business. And let's Pretend Wizards just obsoletes Isamaru, Hound of Konda for every aggro color and prints a goblin guide in those colors as well. (Maybe the last block had kicker, so I can run Kavu Titan as a 5/5 against every deck except Obstruct, and as a 2/2 against Obstruct!)
Why is Collective Strength not WG? Did playtesting find this too strong? Can the +3/+3 one get trample to make up for the increased cost? Hexproof until end of turn? Remove all curses from it?
Concordia Pegasus I like reprints. I wish this was a reprint someone could get excited about... but this plays a clear role in limited (although that role is stalls the air...).
Giant Sloth - This still feels like to dynamic of a sloth.
I still think Function Injunction could cost 1H. It's not winning any beauty contests even at that cost.
Guardian Lynx - Can it have Vigilance? 1/2 for H with Vigilance is... worth thinking about in some decks, and as a 1 drop probably isn't going to affect limited much. If you had more equipment, I'd take notice... but w/o clear equipment at common and uncommon, this guy is outclassed almost immediately, even with vigilance.
Hussar Elite - Fair enough. I still wonder if 2WU for Flash, Flying, and First Strike on a 2/2 (or 2/3?) would be fair here. 3 keywords might be "too complex" for a common, but meh. Still, this is fine.
Single Out - This version is quite strong. Can the opponent choose which is bounced? That would lead to some interesting play decisions... and still be powerful. Also, maybe "Call out" or "Point out", as if you're tapping 2 creatures, it's odd to have "Single" in the name.
Spirit of Procrastination - This feels really strong.
Stay of Execution - Black gets this with upside as an instant for B. Supernatural Stamina. Can this just be Supernatural Stamina in white and give it lifelink instead of the power bonus?
Temporary Blockade - I like this. It feels really interesting and fun, and potentially bad? Very nice design.
Vel-Tyra Blessing & Verdant Growth (Common) - Either make the 3 drop an instant, or cut it.
Verdant Growth - It will definitely be changed to an instant if it playtests poorly as a sorcery.
Guardian Lynx - The cycle is vanilla. Not French vanilla, as tempting as that is. There is only one Equipment at common, but the Lynx should do quite well (with or) without it thanks to Thrive. Giving it Vigilance would be too easy. Besides, Hussar Elite is the common vigilant creature. And too much Vigilance would devalue Temporary Blockade.
Stay of Execution - Maybe. Honestly, I'd like to find a way to make it worth 2WW but remain simple. Lifelink isn't a bad idea, though the flavor of that is a tad off. I'll revisit SoE after I revamp black.
Thanks again.
Time to revamp black!
VG- the question isn't how it playtests, but what it does. At instant, it's a combat trick or flash, which contrasts nicely with your thrive sorcery... as is, it's the same card twice with slightly different numbers. When it was a 2/2 for 2 - a bear - it was a fine sorcery. But now it's a modal gray ogre, and that's quite insulting.
Re: Hybrid Cycle: As discussed before, vanilla is useless at hybrid. Can you imagine a decklist in standard running the card? No. Of course not. It's useless. Being easier to cast means that THE BEST Hybrid vanilla is still worse than THE BEST non-hybrid vanilla. And I don't even think you're doing for "the best" (which could be fair design theory, but leads to a cycle of cards no one wants to open and few want in their draft deck).
Meanwhile, if you make relevant creature types and french vanilla; you slip in keywords of relevance. A 1/2 vigilance for H will see next to no play. Making it a 1/2 nothing vanilla doesn't help it. And there's no wiggle room to add anything else to it as a vanilla. You won't print a 1/3, won't print a 2/2, and a 2/1 H is already obsoleted.
Re: Stay: This doesn't really feel like an aura (yes, some auras work like this... but it's not how you would describe auras; it's how you'd describe an instant.)
There's a lot of good here. But I strongly suggest you take your vanillas to colors, and make the hybrids french vanillas. You get more bang for your creative buck there.
There is - of course - a possibility that you need to cut power on cards for limited gameplay. But quite a few cards you've "made bad" are not bad for limited gamplay reasons. Which begs the question: Are they bad because you don't want to put the time in to make them as good as possible (within relevant design constraints)? you got something better to do than make your hybrid 1 drop something that will make some player excited somewhere?