Plains Souls1WW
Sorcery [Rare]
Create two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
You may exile a basic Plains you control rather than pay Plains Souls' mana cost.
Island Calm1UU
Sorcery [Rare]
Draw two cards.
You may exile a basic Island you control rather than pay Island Calm's mana cost.
Swamp Rot1BB
Sorcery [Rare]
Target player discards two cards.
You may exile a basic Swamp you control rather than pay Swamp Rot's mana cost.
Mountain Fire1RR
Sorcery [Rare]
Creatures you control get +2/+0 and gain first strike and menace until end of turn.
You may exile a basic Mountain you control rather than pay Helping Souls' mana cost.
Forest Friends1GG
Sorcery [Rare]
Create four 1/1 green Saproling creature tokens.
You may exile a basic Forest you control rather than pay Helping Souls' mana cost.
3 CMC sorceries with 3 CMC sorcery level effects.
They set you back a land drop when used for free (slows your ramp) WUB are "+0s" you use 1 card, 1 land to get 2 spirits or 2 cards or 2 discards.
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MtG is where you can hate white players or black players, and still not be racist.
The pitch mechanic from Alliances is widely considered one of the most broken abilities magic has ever done. Only easily out classed by the free mechanic from Urza's Destiny. Your's may seem harsher but its also more powerful because you don't need the land in hand.
These cards are insane. Look at FoW a 2 mana effect had 3 extra mana stapled on to have this pitch effect. All of your cards get it for free. Options always cost more.
I think you'd want to keyword this ability. Still, be careful with such effects. Also, why exile rather than sacrifice?
Plains Souls - Red has a version of this that creates two 1/1 goblins w/o flying. Hence, this is too strong. Also, it feels like a terrible rare. Compare this to Kamigawa Block's Shoals, which did feel mythic.
Island Calm - Yeah, way too strong. Free card draw is free.
Mountain Fire - So let me get this straight, you want to play your 3/2 haste and this on the same turn? How about "please no!"
Forest Friends - I'm pretty sure 2 of the cards in this shouldn't be token producers. Funnily, if this was an Untamed Wilds and common...
Looks like other people have the "totally OP'd" angle covered, here, so I won't dwell on that.
There's something I like about using your spent lands as a resource to cast spells for cheap or free. Like, I could see a convoke / improvise riff, something like:
Ravage(As you cast this spell, each land you sacrifice after you're done activating mana abilities pays for 1.)
or maaaybe:
Ravage(As you cast this spell, each land you sacrifice after you're done activating mana abilities pays for one mana that land could produce.)
A mechanic like this can still give you exciting, big plays for little-or-no mana, and can still totally catch an opponent off-guard, but it also puts the costing question at a reasonable starting point. You're not going to get a free spell without some major sacrifices — nor should you.
Am I reading "Sweep was a cool and popular mechanic, so let's make more mechanics like that" here? That what it looks like to me, but the messing with land bases that sweep has done is exactly the kind of thing you want to avoid.
Don't encourage players to squander their resources!
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Am I reading "Sweep was a cool and popular mechanic, so let's make more mechanics like that" here?
Well, when you put it that way...
But, actually... Devotion ruled, Chroma drooled. So it's not so much "Make another mechanic that emulates this earlier, hated mechanic" as it is "Sometimes a minor but significant reworking can turn a hated mechanic into a beloved mechanic."
I am not claiming that any of the ideas put forth by anyone here have the ability to rework Sweep into a great mechanic, but I don't think you can dismiss something off-hand solely on the basis of it being similar to Sweep. There's probably a right way to do Sweep out there somewhere.
[quote from="SecretInfiltrator »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/776910-3-cmc-force-of-will-effect?comment=6"]I am not claiming that any of the ideas put forth by anyone here have the ability to rework Sweep into a great mechanic, but I don't think you can dismiss something off-hand solely on the basis of it being similar to Sweep.
Which is why my post has further lines that point out the problem with this kind of mechanic.
You don't allow players to screw themselves outside of individual rares/mythics. The more repeatable the mechanic or the more you can squander at once, the stronger you imply that doing so is a good idea. You don't trap your players like that.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
You don't allow players to screw themselves outside of individual rares/mythics. The more repeatable the mechanic or the more you can squander at once, the stronger you imply that doing so is a good idea. You don't trap your players like that.
Well, if you're claiming that it's impossible to create a fixed Sweep without also making it a trap mechanic, I might take that as a challenge.
I remain unconvinced that free alternate-cost spells are fundamentally overpowered. There must be a tipping point for them.
The value of the discount can't be applied uniformly to all cards, it's highly dependent on the type of effect the card has. Island Calm is an excellent example of this, it's far more valuable than the others due to the nature of the effect, despite the cards they're based upon having the same mana costs.
The value of a land from the hand or battlefield is roughly equivalent to 2 mana, effect depending.
I've grappled with 'free' spells for quite some time.
So, your cards are references to Lingering Souls, Divination, Mind Rot, Trumpet Blast (plus first strike), and something original. These cards have the same mana costs, but are of uneven real value, and all are too valuable for a single land's value. Taking a common and turning it into a rare doesn't fix that power discrepancy.
I remain unconvinced that free alternate-cost spells are fundamentally overpowered. There must be a tipping point for them.
I don't think anyone claimed this, though I may be misreading. There is definitely a point where alternative costs are balanced. Look at Force of will vs Foil, one is a format staple while the other...well. A mechanic being easily broken is not the the same as being always broken, even storm has unplayable cards, though when talking about it you will usually just say it's broken.
Ok theyre op, got it.
But am I right that the freeness is what makes them OP? I mean theyre based on sorceries.
My main Idea was you set yourself back a land, use two card (land and card itself) to get out effects. So everything would be batter instead at only reduced costs?
Also yeah that Sweep mechanic, I like that (They just put it on sucky cards). The increased effects but you go "all in". You set the pressure, risk getting behind on land drops. Take risks is my aim here.
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MtG is where you can hate white players or black players, and still not be racist.
The cards are OP because you took existing Sorceries and added a powerful alternative cost to them. The opportunity cost of running these is very low because without the free effect they are cards you would want to run, then when you need or want to you can cast them for free. Also the cost of the free mode is rather low. Look at the pitch cards from Alliances, each one is either 5 or 6 CMC and they are each card disadvantage when used for their pitch, you started with reasonable casting costs and made them card parity when using their sac cast so there is significantly less loss when you cast for free. For your specific cards I would add 3 more to their casting cost, make them instants and up the free cost to exile a land and discard a card.
I remain unconvinced that free alternate-cost spells are fundamentally overpowered. There must be a tipping point for them.
I don't think anyone claimed this, though I may be misreading. There is definitely a point where alternative costs are balanced. Look at Force of will vs Foil, one is a format staple while the other...well. A mechanic being easily broken is not the the same as being always broken, even storm has unplayable cards, though when talking about it you will usually just say it's broken.
It wasn't specifically said in this thread, but there is a general pushback against 'free' spells here on the forums in my experience. Mondu especially is quick to shut down 'free' card concepts with little comment, and seems to feel that they're beyond the pale in terms of power level.
Oh, and I quite like Foil. It lacks the raw power of Force of Will, but not exiling is a huge boon to certain strategies.
I came up with a "fixed" version of Force of Will effects for a custom Titan set I thought of. It basically adds a variable to it so you can increase the ammount of spells required to exile as needed to balance the card. For example...
Fall of The Titans
Rare - Instant
Runecast 3 (You may exile 3 red cards from your hand and pay 3 life instead of paying Fall of the Titans mana cost)
Fall of the Titans deals 2 damage to each creature and each player.
Forsake Knowledge
Uncommon - instant
Runecast 2 (You may exile 2 blue cards from your hand and pay 2 life instead of paying Forsake Knowledge mana cost)
Count target spell unless it's controller pays . Draw a card,
"Free spells" are tricky. Not inherently overpowered, but hard to balance and with a tendency to beccome abusable - which means you have to put them at a save cost and that will often look unappealing.
The problem of "free spells" is in large parts not their design, but their development. And unless you test them with sharks, you won't get to cost them well. As a general rule though I don't recall a "free spell" being balanced at the same converted mana cost as the version without the alternative cost.
"Free spells" are tricky. Not inherently overpowered, but hard to balance and with a tendency to beccome abusable - which means you have to put them at a save cost and that will often look unappealing.
The problem of "free spells" is in large parts not their design, but their development. And unless you test them with sharks, you won't get to cost them well. As a general rule though I don't recall a "free spell" being balanced at the same converted mana cost as the version without the alternative cost.
Sorcery [Rare]
Create two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
You may exile a basic Plains you control rather than pay Plains Souls' mana cost.
Island Calm 1UU
Sorcery [Rare]
Draw two cards.
You may exile a basic Island you control rather than pay Island Calm's mana cost.
Swamp Rot 1BB
Sorcery [Rare]
Target player discards two cards.
You may exile a basic Swamp you control rather than pay Swamp Rot's mana cost.
Mountain Fire 1RR
Sorcery [Rare]
Creatures you control get +2/+0 and gain first strike and menace until end of turn.
You may exile a basic Mountain you control rather than pay Helping Souls' mana cost.
Forest Friends 1GG
Sorcery [Rare]
Create four 1/1 green Saproling creature tokens.
You may exile a basic Forest you control rather than pay Helping Souls' mana cost.
3 CMC sorceries with 3 CMC sorcery level effects.
They set you back a land drop when used for free (slows your ramp)
WUB are "+0s" you use 1 card, 1 land to get 2 spirits or 2 cards or 2 discards.
These cards are insane. Look at FoW a 2 mana effect had 3 extra mana stapled on to have this pitch effect. All of your cards get it for free. Options always cost more.
Plains Souls - Red has a version of this that creates two 1/1 goblins w/o flying. Hence, this is too strong. Also, it feels like a terrible rare. Compare this to Kamigawa Block's Shoals, which did feel mythic.
Island Calm - Yeah, way too strong. Free card draw is free.
Mountain Fire - So let me get this straight, you want to play your 3/2 haste and this on the same turn? How about "please no!"
Forest Friends - I'm pretty sure 2 of the cards in this shouldn't be token producers. Funnily, if this was an Untamed Wilds and common...
The rest are too powerful, but not a joke like island calm is. White is the closest thing to balanced as it is.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
There's something I like about using your spent lands as a resource to cast spells for cheap or free. Like, I could see a convoke / improvise riff, something like:
Ravage (As you cast this spell, each land you sacrifice after you're done activating mana abilities pays for 1.)
or maaaybe:
Ravage (As you cast this spell, each land you sacrifice after you're done activating mana abilities pays for one mana that land could produce.)
A mechanic like this can still give you exciting, big plays for little-or-no mana, and can still totally catch an opponent off-guard, but it also puts the costing question at a reasonable starting point. You're not going to get a free spell without some major sacrifices — nor should you.
Don't encourage players to squander their resources!
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
But, actually... Devotion ruled, Chroma drooled. So it's not so much "Make another mechanic that emulates this earlier, hated mechanic" as it is "Sometimes a minor but significant reworking can turn a hated mechanic into a beloved mechanic."
I am not claiming that any of the ideas put forth by anyone here have the ability to rework Sweep into a great mechanic, but I don't think you can dismiss something off-hand solely on the basis of it being similar to Sweep. There's probably a right way to do Sweep out there somewhere.
Which is why my post has further lines that point out the problem with this kind of mechanic.
You don't allow players to screw themselves outside of individual rares/mythics. The more repeatable the mechanic or the more you can squander at once, the stronger you imply that doing so is a good idea. You don't trap your players like that.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
The value of the discount can't be applied uniformly to all cards, it's highly dependent on the type of effect the card has. Island Calm is an excellent example of this, it's far more valuable than the others due to the nature of the effect, despite the cards they're based upon having the same mana costs.
The value of a land from the hand or battlefield is roughly equivalent to 2 mana, effect depending.
I've grappled with 'free' spells for quite some time.
So, your cards are references to Lingering Souls, Divination, Mind Rot, Trumpet Blast (plus first strike), and something original. These cards have the same mana costs, but are of uneven real value, and all are too valuable for a single land's value. Taking a common and turning it into a rare doesn't fix that power discrepancy.
But am I right that the freeness is what makes them OP? I mean theyre based on sorceries.
My main Idea was you set yourself back a land, use two card (land and card itself) to get out effects. So everything would be batter instead at only reduced costs?
Also yeah that Sweep mechanic, I like that (They just put it on sucky cards). The increased effects but you go "all in". You set the pressure, risk getting behind on land drops. Take risks is my aim here.
It wasn't specifically said in this thread, but there is a general pushback against 'free' spells here on the forums in my experience. Mondu especially is quick to shut down 'free' card concepts with little comment, and seems to feel that they're beyond the pale in terms of power level.
Oh, and I quite like Foil. It lacks the raw power of Force of Will, but not exiling is a huge boon to certain strategies.
Fall of The Titans
Rare - Instant
Runecast 3 (You may exile 3 red cards from your hand and pay 3 life instead of paying Fall of the Titans mana cost)
Fall of the Titans deals 2 damage to each creature and each player.
Forsake Knowledge
Uncommon - instant
Runecast 2 (You may exile 2 blue cards from your hand and pay 2 life instead of paying Forsake Knowledge mana cost)
Count target spell unless it's controller pays . Draw a card,
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The problem of "free spells" is in large parts not their design, but their development. And unless you test them with sharks, you won't get to cost them well. As a general rule though I don't recall a "free spell" being balanced at the same converted mana cost as the version without the alternative cost.
Exile from where?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Typo was supposed to say hand.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA