Nothing good? Seemingly. I didn't like kcw's entry either... because the winner should become the permanent avatar/banner for Nex3 - kcw's entry wasn't that fitting.
But that's probably the reason, why it was winning and then shot. While I think kcw's entry shouldn't become Nex3 set - this deletion is akin to rigging the poll - that's not cool.
A simpler and more elegant solution would've been the acceptance of kcw's set (in case of winning) on the scoreboard, and for Nex3... well, someone has certainly a bit of webspace (perhaps even Hannes, or Nex3 himself) to make the Top 3 or so into a rotating set for Nex. This would've been better...
I totally agree that the deletion was obscene. I can see why it was done and that it seemed like the best idea at the time, but I think it was done incorrectly.
We need a mod in this forum fast. There should have already been one, but we need one for sure now.
Also, if people don't want banners like KCW's to pop up in the contests, then there should be rules against banners such as his. Even then, there will be those who work within the rules to do just the same thing. This stuff is just part of life, we should deal with it and move on (without riggin' the vote - on either side).
I saw the thread in the gutter.
Thus, I clicked the link and came here.
I then read said thread, and looked over the entrees.
After that, I voted for KCW's banner, and his only?
Why?
Because I enjoyed it.
The fact that people are getting their panties in a bunch over people voting for KCW is absolutely rediculous. It's a contest on a website. There is no purse at stake here. If you want your serious little contests SorryGuy, I'm sure there's plenty of graphic design sites that can fill your need.
Until then, I'll keep checking in on these contests, and vote for the entries I like. And if the only entry I like is KCW's, I'll be voting for it.
Until then, I'll keep checking in on these contests, and vote for the entries I like. And if the only entry I like is KCW's, I'll be voting for it.
I plan to do the same.
I voted for a simple facade and CharlieD in addition to my KCW vote, because I enjoyed those 3 the most.
I don't see the point in voting if you cannot vote for who you want.
EDIT: Also, what is going to happen if a banner which is generally disliked or takes little skill makes the contest poll and it isn't KCW, will their entries be deleted also? Afterall, the quality of banners is all up to one's opinion anyway, which is why this contest is voted on in a poll, yet we are now being stripped of our opinion because we voted for someone whose entry was generally "dsiliked". That logic is simply flooring and seemingly ridiculus at the same time.
I find this decision to be hypocritical. This is hardly the first time contests have been effected by "outside" votes. Lots of members have been going to clans and what not to rally support. KCW didn't even do this. Therefore kicking him out of the contest was unjustified.
If I get 100 members to vote for, I don't know, Mr. Stuff? And therefore 'rig' the poll without him knowing or requesting, are you also going to kick him out? If so I think I can kick everyone in the current poll out before it closes.
This 'contest' is a disgrace not because of who voted for whom, but who is running it and for what reasons.
Well, no one has ever gone into clans to ask for support. I don't knwo where you're getting this from. It sounds like you're talking about BotU.
Also, while KCW didn't ask for the member to post that link, he could have just as well deleted it so the vote wasn't affected by the outside votes.
Presonally I just want to stay out if this now, let you work it out among yourselves... I didn't like KCW's entry, but I think now maybe removing it was a bit too much.
Presonally I just want to stay out if this now, let you work it out among yourselves... I didn't like KCW's entry, but I think now maybe removing it was a bit too much.
So how many people agree with SorryGuy's decision?
As much as I didn't like your banner and saw it as a slap in the face, sorry guy shouldn't have removed. A more approrate decision would be to remove the voters that voted for only yours as a result of ghandi's thread.
As much as I didn't like your banner and saw it as a slap in the face, sorry guy shouldn't have removed. A more approrate decision would be to remove the voters that voted for only yours as a result of ghandi's thread.
So basically you are saying that the Gutter members who voted for KCW don't have just as much right to vote for KCW as you or I do to vote for any other user?
If someone wants to vote for someone, they should be able to. It's a public poll for a reason, so that everyone can vote for who they want.
If that isn't the intent of this contest, then maybe a Judge council or something of the sort should be created to prevent rallying, etc.
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So basically you are saying that the Gutter members who voted for KCW don't have just as much right to vote for KCW as you or I do to vote for any other user?
If someone wants to vote for someone, they should be able to. It's a public poll for a reason, so that everyone can vote for who they want.
If that isn't the intent of this contest, then maybe a Judge council or something of the sort should be created to prevent rallying, etc.
I'm saying that except for one or two, the gutter members voted only once and onl for KCW. Furthermore they came here as a direct result of gandhi's thread which toled them to vote for KCW. Hence a these members of the gutter who voted only once where soliceted to come here and vote for KCW thus helping to rig the contest.
I'm saying that except for one or two, the gutter members voted only once and onl for KCW. Furthermore they came here as a direct result of ghandi's thread which toled them to vote for KCW. Hence a these members of the gutter who voted only once where soliceted to come here and vote for KCW thus helping to rig the contest.
Yeah, curse those MORONS TRYING TO RIG THE CONTEST like sneakyhomunculus, I mean who the hell does he think he is?
I'm saying that except for one or two, the gutter members voted only once and onl for KCW. Furthermore they came here as a direct result of ghandi's thread which toled them to vote for KCW. Hence a these members of the gutter who voted only once where soliceted to come here and vote for KCW thus helping to rig the contest.
I would like very much for you to prove that "only one or two" voted for exclusively for KCW.
I would like very much for you to prove that "only one or two" voted for exclusively for KCW.
And can no one spell my name right?
I wish that I had kept records when I went through the poll. Despite the fact thaqt I didn't keep records, I still miticuosly went through the poll on saw that over half of KCW's voters only voted for him and hadn't voted on previous contests.
I'm saying that except for one or two, the gutter members voted only once and onl for KCW. Furthermore they came here as a direct result of ghandi's thread which toled them to vote for KCW. Hence a these members of the gutter who voted only once where soliceted to come here and vote for KCW thus helping to rig the contest.
I understand.
The only problem is that then we are assuming that KCW only got votes because of the Gutter post.
That is a generality which may be true, but cannot be made simply for the sake of doing so.
I mean I have seen banner makers with sigs which say "Don't forget to vote in the Weekly COntest: link" and though they don't want votes (Once again a mere implication as they may actually be asking for votes, whose to know without assumptions) the situation is similar to that of KCW.
That user didn't ask for the votes, and neither did KCW, but that person is not going to stop you from voting for him if you do after finding the link is their sig.
I am not against anyone feeling the way they do about the quality of KCW's banner or the way his votes were obtained because I see how you all could be displeased. But making assumptions as to how KCW got his votes simply because a thread was posted seems extreme. For all anyone knows, people are voting for certain people in this contest because they are friends, or liked. This is a flaw in public polling it seems, because things can easily become a popularity contest. For all anyone knows I voted ASF and Charlie simply because I like them, not because they made the best banners (Of course I voted them because I thought their banners were great, but that is beside my point) yet when you give all members the right to a vote, you cannot rule out certain reasons for voting and not others.
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This thread almost makes me wish that Recruiting Votes anywhere a bannable offense sense so many say its wrong if people do it for KCW but ok if its for them...
If I had the chance I would of voted for KCW cause the rest of you cry too much to gain a vote from me.
Just cause you don't appreciate the contest doesn't mean you have to go and spoil the fun for the rest of us though does it?
What are you going on about? Of course I appreciate the contest.
Honestly, just because I'm not so self-righteous that I feel the need to get a contestant disqualified because I dislike his entry and the fact that people voted for him? Puh-lease.
If I don't appreciate the contest, then neither does SneakyHomunculus. And I think that making that statement for either of us is not only ignorant, but arrogant as well.
[disclaimer]
Before I even get into the heart of this post, I would just like to say that I really didn't want to get into this discussion, but I think it has gotten completely out of hand. My opinion has grown too strong to not voice it, and I would like everyone to understand that this is simply my opion, I am not trying to tell anyone else what to do (not to say I wouldn't aprove of them taking my advice; I would).
[/disclaimer]
I'm with ASF on this one. People really need to relax about this. This is the first time this has happened, and what's to say it will even happen again.
As much as I dislike entries like KCW's (and to be honest, they usually disgust me), I think removing the entry has caused far more harm than it could ever hope to fix. Although SG seems to have had good intentions with said action, I believe it was, to put it lightly, not the best of ideas.
I think the best solution here would have been (and still could be) to simply reinstate KCW as this weeks winner and just go on with the contest.
I don't know how many of you actually remember this, but take a look at CharlieD's winning entry from Week 27. It was extremely similar (albeit slightly more tasteful IMO) to KCW's entry this week, and it won without any controversy.
I think the way this contest was run under De Banaan and Nex3 was perfectly reasonable and should continue unchanged, regardless of person in charge. This would mean simply getting over your annoyance with the fact that KCW won, putting it in the hall of fame, and moving on to next week.
I care about the health of this contest as much as anyone (in fact, it was one of the main reasons I even joined Salvation), but I think this only needs to be addressed (in any manner) if it becomes a recurring problem. And at this point, it is far from that.
P.S. Sorry for the long post, but I had to get that out there.
Never said I took it more seriously than life itself, but I enjoy it as a passtime and a personal hobby and just because you don't have anything else to do with your life doesn't mean you should spoil other peoples fun.
He wasn't "spoiling" anybody's fun. The people who got their panties in a bunch because an unusual entry was winning were.
If you are trying to compare SneakyHomunculus's argument with your:
You are grossly mistaken in your assumptions.
No - I think you are the mistaken one. This is an official contest of MTGSalvation. No one's denying that. However, the extent to which things went because the facilitator of said contest disliked how things were going are clearly demonstrative of not only ulterior motives, but also the fact that some people are taking this contest too seriously. Why did people throw a fit about it in the first place? They thought his entry wasn't worthy of winning the contest. Hate to break it to you, but the voting populous is what determines that - not the contestants. Yet, people whined and it got pulled in an unjust manner. If that doesn't reek of people taking the internet too serious, then I don't know what is.
I noticed the similarities between both entries too, the diference is that CaD isn't a moderator and can't get more than 4 or 5 members to vote for him by asking them, but KCW is and has a bigger amount of people willing to suck up to him.
1. KCW is not a staff member. Moderating a subforum != Moderator.
2. Charlie or someone else could very well have asked people to vote for his entry.
3. We should lynch KCW because... people like him? That's hardly something he can control.
The problem isn't the quality of the banner, it's the way that KCW being the moderator of a board will have people willing to follow him and ruin perfectly acceptable contests such as this one or the already trashed BoTU because they are bored.
Well, no one followed KCW. In fact, he wasn't even responsible for the thread in question.
Also, just cause it is the first time it happens doesn't mean it should be accepted, problems should be cut down before they become commonplace. On a larger scale what you are basically saying is that if say, North Korea nuked Japan it would be okay because it is the first time they did it, but if they nuke someone else after that then it's not okay?
3. We should lynch KCW because... people like him? That's hardly something he can control.
Wow, and I felt like I was reading a mafia thread before.
@Watza: I completely agree that generally problems should be cut down at their source as fast as possible. However, given that this is the first time this has happened, and there are a significant number of people that believe there was truly nothing wrong with it, I have to say that, IMO, it isn't really a problem.
What's wrong with letting a silly, slightly tasteless entry win the contest one week? I would honestly rather someone else win, but as someone said earlier, the person who deserves to win is no determined by one or two (or even three or four) contestants deciding said person deserves to win. The person who deserves to win is decided by the voting population in a contest like this, and trying to change that is undermining what public polls are all about.
I'm going to stop now because I have to get some work done and I don't want to get too deep into this. It's really not my place.
Also, just cause it is the first time it happens doesn't mean it should be accepted, problems should be cut down before they become commonplace. On a larger scale what you are basically saying is that if say, North Korea nuked Japan it would be okay because it is the first time they did it, but if they nuke someone else after that then it's not okay?
Let's take this quote and expand upon it. Take the bolded part for example. Of course it isn't okay that someone just got nuked for Christ's Sake, but how would you 'un-nuke' that country? It is just something that would have to be taken under consideration and placed into the record books.
Come on now, how can you compare a banner voting thread with what would be a World War? I realize the metaphorical significance that you were trying to emphasize is, but what you said is exactly spot on (albiet over the top). We need to learn from this mistake, reinstitute KCW's banner into the running, and then whoever wins should be placed into the Hall of Fame.
Then the rules need to be changed. There should be more strict rules about what can and cannot be done and what the consequences will be when the rules are broken. This should bring us together as a community and not push us furthur apart.
I, after much consideration, will not reinstate kingcobweb's entry and I will never add it to the Hall of Fame. While a_passer_bye's plan above sounds resonable and I considered it I can not being myself to allow kingwobweb's entry to win, mainly because of the means which it would win. If as a result those who enter this contest would like a new leader, I understand. I will surrender my power to whomever the majority of those who have entered this contest three or more times decide on.
Replying to every post in this thread would take more time than I have but I will summarize it here: I was and am doing what I feel is best for the contest. While totally removing kingcobweb's entry may not have been the correct way of going about it I stand by him winning equaling nothing good for this contest. If he had won this contest without any opposition then he would win next week and the week after that. History tells us this. This would lead to eventual drama and many leaving the contest. Me doing what I did will have a different result. I will likely not run this contest in a few days, something that was going to have soon anyway. In addition, kingcobweb will not win future contests because that would be proving gutter members I was correct, something they will never do.
To ForD, Krashbot, a_passer_bye, Watza and all other regular goers of this forum whom are without bias: I am sorry this had to go the way it did and I am sorry you do not agree with my actions. Please know however that they were for the better and were good intentioned.
Yeah, I did Keeper, I am having a little internal conflict here. Regardless I stand by the above with the amendments I made between deletes.
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I totally agree that the deletion was obscene. I can see why it was done and that it seemed like the best idea at the time, but I think it was done incorrectly.
We need a mod in this forum fast. There should have already been one, but we need one for sure now.
Also, if people don't want banners like KCW's to pop up in the contests, then there should be rules against banners such as his. Even then, there will be those who work within the rules to do just the same thing. This stuff is just part of life, we should deal with it and move on (without riggin' the vote - on either side).
Thus, I clicked the link and came here.
I then read said thread, and looked over the entrees.
After that, I voted for KCW's banner, and his only?
Why?
Because I enjoyed it.
The fact that people are getting their panties in a bunch over people voting for KCW is absolutely rediculous. It's a contest on a website. There is no purse at stake here. If you want your serious little contests SorryGuy, I'm sure there's plenty of graphic design sites that can fill your need.
Until then, I'll keep checking in on these contests, and vote for the entries I like. And if the only entry I like is KCW's, I'll be voting for it.
I plan to do the same.
I voted for a simple facade and CharlieD in addition to my KCW vote, because I enjoyed those 3 the most.
I don't see the point in voting if you cannot vote for who you want.
EDIT: Also, what is going to happen if a banner which is generally disliked or takes little skill makes the contest poll and it isn't KCW, will their entries be deleted also? Afterall, the quality of banners is all up to one's opinion anyway, which is why this contest is voted on in a poll, yet we are now being stripped of our opinion because we voted for someone whose entry was generally "dsiliked". That logic is simply flooring and seemingly ridiculus at the same time.
Well, no one has ever gone into clans to ask for support. I don't knwo where you're getting this from. It sounds like you're talking about BotU.
Also, while KCW didn't ask for the member to post that link, he could have just as well deleted it so the vote wasn't affected by the outside votes.
Presonally I just want to stay out if this now, let you work it out among yourselves... I didn't like KCW's entry, but I think now maybe removing it was a bit too much.
This has happened before. I have seen it.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
So how many people agree with SorryGuy's decision?
So basically you are saying that the Gutter members who voted for KCW don't have just as much right to vote for KCW as you or I do to vote for any other user?
If someone wants to vote for someone, they should be able to. It's a public poll for a reason, so that everyone can vote for who they want.
If that isn't the intent of this contest, then maybe a Judge council or something of the sort should be created to prevent rallying, etc.
I'm saying that except for one or two, the gutter members voted only once and onl for KCW. Furthermore they came here as a direct result of gandhi's thread which toled them to vote for KCW. Hence a these members of the gutter who voted only once where soliceted to come here and vote for KCW thus helping to rig the contest.
Yeah, curse those MORONS TRYING TO RIG THE CONTEST like sneakyhomunculus, I mean who the hell does he think he is?
And can no one spell my name right?
I wish that I had kept records when I went through the poll. Despite the fact thaqt I didn't keep records, I still miticuosly went through the poll on saw that over half of KCW's voters only voted for him and hadn't voted on previous contests.
I understand.
The only problem is that then we are assuming that KCW only got votes because of the Gutter post.
That is a generality which may be true, but cannot be made simply for the sake of doing so.
I mean I have seen banner makers with sigs which say "Don't forget to vote in the Weekly COntest: link" and though they don't want votes (Once again a mere implication as they may actually be asking for votes, whose to know without assumptions) the situation is similar to that of KCW.
That user didn't ask for the votes, and neither did KCW, but that person is not going to stop you from voting for him if you do after finding the link is their sig.
I am not against anyone feeling the way they do about the quality of KCW's banner or the way his votes were obtained because I see how you all could be displeased. But making assumptions as to how KCW got his votes simply because a thread was posted seems extreme. For all anyone knows, people are voting for certain people in this contest because they are friends, or liked. This is a flaw in public polling it seems, because things can easily become a popularity contest. For all anyone knows I voted ASF and Charlie simply because I like them, not because they made the best banners (Of course I voted them because I thought their banners were great, but that is beside my point) yet when you give all members the right to a vote, you cannot rule out certain reasons for voting and not others.
If I had the chance I would of voted for KCW cause the rest of you cry too much to gain a vote from me.
I mean, interweb contest HELLO!
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
just because you take the contest more seriously than life itself doesn't mean the rest of us do, too
What are you going on about? Of course I appreciate the contest.
Honestly, just because I'm not so self-righteous that I feel the need to get a contestant disqualified because I dislike his entry and the fact that people voted for him? Puh-lease.
If I don't appreciate the contest, then neither does SneakyHomunculus. And I think that making that statement for either of us is not only ignorant, but arrogant as well.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Before I even get into the heart of this post, I would just like to say that I really didn't want to get into this discussion, but I think it has gotten completely out of hand. My opinion has grown too strong to not voice it, and I would like everyone to understand that this is simply my opion, I am not trying to tell anyone else what to do (not to say I wouldn't aprove of them taking my advice; I would).
[/disclaimer]
I'm with ASF on this one. People really need to relax about this. This is the first time this has happened, and what's to say it will even happen again.
As much as I dislike entries like KCW's (and to be honest, they usually disgust me), I think removing the entry has caused far more harm than it could ever hope to fix. Although SG seems to have had good intentions with said action, I believe it was, to put it lightly, not the best of ideas.
I think the best solution here would have been (and still could be) to simply reinstate KCW as this weeks winner and just go on with the contest.
I don't know how many of you actually remember this, but take a look at CharlieD's winning entry from Week 27. It was extremely similar (albeit slightly more tasteful IMO) to KCW's entry this week, and it won without any controversy.
I think the way this contest was run under De Banaan and Nex3 was perfectly reasonable and should continue unchanged, regardless of person in charge. This would mean simply getting over your annoyance with the fact that KCW won, putting it in the hall of fame, and moving on to next week.
I care about the health of this contest as much as anyone (in fact, it was one of the main reasons I even joined Salvation), but I think this only needs to be addressed (in any manner) if it becomes a recurring problem. And at this point, it is far from that.
P.S. Sorry for the long post, but I had to get that out there.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
I concur.
And should this not be the case, and I end up winning, I will defer my "award" to the rightful winner - kingcobweb.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
He wasn't "spoiling" anybody's fun. The people who got their panties in a bunch because an unusual entry was winning were.
No - I think you are the mistaken one. This is an official contest of MTGSalvation. No one's denying that. However, the extent to which things went because the facilitator of said contest disliked how things were going are clearly demonstrative of not only ulterior motives, but also the fact that some people are taking this contest too seriously. Why did people throw a fit about it in the first place? They thought his entry wasn't worthy of winning the contest. Hate to break it to you, but the voting populous is what determines that - not the contestants. Yet, people whined and it got pulled in an unjust manner. If that doesn't reek of people taking the internet too serious, then I don't know what is.
1. KCW is not a staff member. Moderating a subforum != Moderator.
2. Charlie or someone else could very well have asked people to vote for his entry.
3. We should lynch KCW because... people like him?
Well, no one followed KCW. In fact, he wasn't even responsible for the thread in question.
Slippery slope much?
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
@Watza: I completely agree that generally problems should be cut down at their source as fast as possible. However, given that this is the first time this has happened, and there are a significant number of people that believe there was truly nothing wrong with it, I have to say that, IMO, it isn't really a problem.
What's wrong with letting a silly, slightly tasteless entry win the contest one week? I would honestly rather someone else win, but as someone said earlier, the person who deserves to win is no determined by one or two (or even three or four) contestants deciding said person deserves to win. The person who deserves to win is decided by the voting population in a contest like this, and trying to change that is undermining what public polls are all about.
I'm going to stop now because I have to get some work done and I don't want to get too deep into this. It's really not my place.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
Let's take this quote and expand upon it. Take the bolded part for example. Of course it isn't okay that someone just got nuked for Christ's Sake, but how would you 'un-nuke' that country? It is just something that would have to be taken under consideration and placed into the record books.
Come on now, how can you compare a banner voting thread with what would be a World War? I realize the metaphorical significance that you were trying to emphasize is, but what you said is exactly spot on (albiet over the top). We need to learn from this mistake, reinstitute KCW's banner into the running, and then whoever wins should be placed into the Hall of Fame.
Then the rules need to be changed. There should be more strict rules about what can and cannot be done and what the consequences will be when the rules are broken. This should bring us together as a community and not push us furthur apart.
Epic strategy
Replying to every post in this thread would take more time than I have but I will summarize it here: I was and am doing what I feel is best for the contest. While totally removing kingcobweb's entry may not have been the correct way of going about it I stand by him winning equaling nothing good for this contest. If he had won this contest without any opposition then he would win next week and the week after that. History tells us this. This would lead to eventual drama and many leaving the contest. Me doing what I did will have a different result. I will likely not run this contest in a few days, something that was going to have soon anyway. In addition, kingcobweb will not win future contests because that would be proving gutter members I was correct, something they will never do.
To ForD, Krashbot, a_passer_bye, Watza and all other regular goers of this forum whom are without bias: I am sorry this had to go the way it did and I am sorry you do not agree with my actions. Please know however that they were for the better and were good intentioned.
Yeah, I did Keeper, I am having a little internal conflict here. Regardless I stand by the above with the amendments I made between deletes.