I mean, I've been altering cards since the extended art thing caught on.
Roughly two years ago, more like 22 months, and guess what?
I'm good at it.
Yeah, I patted myself on the back, oh man!
People are so afraid to sound arrogant or overly pretentious.
If you are good at something, BE PROUD OF IT.
You are good at it and don't think anyone would deny that. My issue is that people see my full-art Planeswalkers as being worth about the same as a mass produced foil version of the same card. I really think that keeps me from charging more.
But I guess we live in a world where very few people have ACTUAL paintings on their walls. Oh yeah, screw posters. I hate those things. And if you spend $800 framing what you think is a "print" you just spent $800 framing a poster. Not a print. A giclee is a poster. A Serigraph? It's a poster.
If someone wanted me to do another Liliana like the last one I did, I'd want $50 cash, no trade, their card not mine.
That is a bit more than 2x the Japanese Foil value, and roughly $19/hour.
If someone wanted me to do another Liliana like the last one I did, I'd want $50 cash, no trade, their card not mine.
That is a bit more than 2x the Japanese Foil value, and roughly $19/hour.
Because when people roll their eyes at me when I say full art Planewalkers are $50 (which is what I think they should be) I know I'm not getting clients. I need the money (diapers for 2 and if I want to play I have to have a hobby that pays for itself) and if I send clients away I'm not getting that money. I wrote more, but I sound like a whiney B, so I deleted it. I guess it's a sore subject since I have been swindled and robbed with my gallery dealings in the past.
Okay nvm what I said, that is rude (edit) Find the people that will pay it, that's what I did.
Ebay that stuff, then. If you do a good full-art walker, it shouldn't end less than $40.
I got hooked on Magic several years ago. About 10 years ago I got a wild hair one day, hopped into my car, and drove 7 hours to Origins. I loved every minute of it! Most of my time was spent with artists and to this day there are artists who recognize me and ask about how my school year went when I see them at Origins or Gen Con. I have the original sketch for Mons Goblin Raiders framed in my living room as well as the original paintings for my two favorite Wheel of Time cards (Shaidar Haran and Aviendha), and a few other treasures I've bought from various artists. I told Mark Poole that one of my biggest regrets was not buying his original Power Sink painting when he offered it to me several years ago. I've never had the money to buy many of the drawings and paintings I've loved, but I try to buy something every year.
When I found this thread I was amazed! So many posters on here are wonderfully talented and I hope the altered card market booms to the point that those of you who do commissions can feel good about charging whatever you want and never have problems staying busy. I feel very fortunate to have been able to use the trading forum on here to get some cards altered by nofingers and anxiously await the card he is in the process of altering for me now. Good luck to all of you!
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I had amnesia once, or maybe twice. I don't remember.
There's a whole world to the sales side of these things, but no one talks about it.
Mention the nitty-gritty about the money making side of it and "OMFG, ur doin it just for tha money? u suk u sell out" seems to happen.
YES, I WAS DOING IT FOR THE MONEY QUITE A BIT. It didn't stop me from improving my art technique!
Ok. What? As someone who is actively looking into art as a career, this actually happens a lot (though I've never gotten flak in regards to alters- just people never responding back once they hear my prices :P).
I sometimes wonder if I charge a bit too much, but I'm friggin busy, and still making rent barely before the end of the month. I take time on my alters, and although it's sometimes a problem, I hope for my client's sake that it's worth it.
Considering that us as alterers never get to keep the cards we've spent time on, I don't see any other way that getting payed could make sense.
Also, are you still looking into alters for yourself yawg? Would like to see more of your work that isn't borderless.
@Balu: There is an in-between. If you want X and Y, and they say $40, that means pick one, and they will probably do it for $20. As it is, I'm not making a whole lot of money if you want to look at hourly rates (I take a while :P).
Okay nvm what I said, that is rude (edit) Find the people that will pay it, that's what I did.
Ebay that stuff, then. If you do a good full-art walker, it shouldn't end less than $40.
ebay has been terrible. I am pretty sure that I am doing something wrong or I am highly overrating my own work (which I am told I never do). I have my first piece right now above $10. $10 hardly covers the card + shipping and that is as good as it's been. I am not complaining or calling the people that DO win my auctions cheap. I am extremely appreciative of anyone willing to invest in my time and energy, but I usually end up pocketing $3-$4 per card after fees, shipping, and the initial cost of the card. I do much better here and at the local shops, but they still have a threshold.
The same was true with paintings when I was aggressively promoting my work. The people that I appealed to were not the high-society types that were willing to pay for large one of a kind paintings. The people that liked my work were the types of people that go to galleries to hang out and drink free wine and talk trash about high society types that could afford the paintings. So, I found that if I could crank out small pieces that cost me under $10 and took less than 1 hour to make I could price them under $75 and they sold like mad. It isn't that people don't want what we do, it's that their value of art is different than ours. I see the closing bids on some of Lara Lou's (SP?) auctions and it feel criminal. I bid on 4HM's stuff because it's important for me to show how much I value them, even if I can't actually afford to win them. Even Card Kitty's work, which sells for pretty solid amounts, is so stupidly low for the level of specialty and quality. Half the bids on the card I have up right now are from my mom and a friend from back in Colorado. They don't even want it, but they still see me as the Art Star I was back in High School. It's all quite insane.
For anyone who's vaguely interested in why he keeps mentioning me every now and then, it's because I made a match for his Tendrils of Agony on a Duress and I bet he's got it in a little window and is staring at it right now
But no, srsly, I think you're allowed censoring on here right? Right?
Uh, well, I don't wanna get crucified for this, but since there's no naughty bits showing, I'm going to assume it'll be okay if I post this....
If it really screams NSFW, then let me know and I'll take it down, okay?
Ok. What? As someone who is actively looking into art as a career, this actually happens a lot (though I've never gotten flak in regards to alters- just people never responding back once they hear my prices :P).
I sometimes wonder if I charge a bit too much, but I'm friggin busy, and still making rent barely before the end of the month. I take time on my alters, and although it's sometimes a problem, I hope for my client's sake that it's worth it.
Considering that us as alterers never get to keep the cards we've spent time on, I don't see any other way that getting payed could make sense.
Also, are you still looking into alters for yourself yawg? Would like to see more of your work that isn't borderless.
@Balu: There is an in-between. If you want X and Y, and they say $40, that means pick one, and they will probably do it for $20. As it is, I'm not making a whole lot of money if you want to look at hourly rates (I take a while :P).
same with me, It takes a very long time to do ink blending, and I usually spent around 3-4 hours per card, which usually means im lucky if i even make 10ish/hour.
As a buyer, I love altered cards, but I'm also particular about what I would pay for. I've asked several artists on here and mtgthesource about commissions, but their quote was always out my price range.
I think I had been spoiled by eBay, as that's where I saw my first altered cards over a year ago. Frequently, unless the thing was drop dead gorgeous and/or highly original, you could get an decent alter for a small percentage of the price of the card.
When the first person quoted me $40 on top of a $5 card, when I had seen work of similar quality go on eBay for more like $10 total, I had to say it was a bit of a shock. Although now I realize that from an artists point of view, they just had to pray when they listed it on eBay, as it is so subjective. I also realize that good alters often take hours and hours to do, and if I was an artist, I'd make it priority one to get a name for myself and start doing commissions, as that's when you can actually get paid for your work. There's something to be said for paying your dues though.
I do know that if I could afford it, I had have 75 personalized cards in most of my decks.
One of the reasons I stopped selling hand done items on ebay was due to the drastically varying sales price, its crushing to have a one of a kind item you spent hours on sell for less then an unaltered version of the same card, which I found happened all too often. Which is why I started selling the magic equivalent of posters, which do surprisingly well. I have actually sold a few playsets of cards along with the original full size painted art, for as high as 1200 bucks...
Here is a neat one I made for a guy the other day... didn't pay much for it considering it took almost 3 hours, but it turned out pretty neat...
Its what the guy was wanting, so it wasn't really my choice, definitely an odd choice a headless horseman on a plains, but thats what he was needing it on :-p
Personally I think it should be on an actual legends headless horseman....I'll havta hunt down one now...
I have an outline on a duress on my own, and am kinda wondering what to fill in the rest of it with.
lemme know what you would think would look good.
duress:
What exactly do you mean by "extended art" in contrast to "full frame"? Extending a wing here and a sword there, but leaving the most part of the card`s border unchanged?
As far as selling alters on "the auction" site, the market is flooded now. Back when I still did them, I was getting 30-50$ for altered lands and 40-60$ on most of the rares I did (obviously for highly played cards). Then people had seen the money you could make and there you have it.
You have to be a big standout to really make any money at it now (like Yawg etc) and have a name for yourself (again, Yawg).
I have an outline on a duress on my own, and am kinda wondering what to fill in the rest of it with.
lemme know what you would think would look good.
duress:
Sorry ChKL... Got it, no censors....
Heh, I was gonna suggest a hand pointing at her or touching her, too. Or maybe have it holding something like a collar, I dunno, I could go really weird places with this
But if hands aren't your thing, maybe you could jazz up the background.....
Ah, idea! Is that in pencil? Hope so - I was thinking that instead of having her arms by her sides, pull them up in front of her so they look like a backwards L, and have her hands chained in manacles from the top of the card If you're having trouble imagining that I could do a mock-up...
But if you don't want to go to those lengths, then have that red thought mist swirling around in the background
Roughly two years ago, more like 22 months, and guess what?
I'm good at it.
Yeah, I patted myself on the back, oh man!
People are so afraid to sound arrogant or overly pretentious.
If you are good at something, BE PROUD OF IT.
EDIT:
When I took commissions, I charged ...
$20+ for extended art
$40+ for full frame
$50+ for new art
$25+ for Japanese Conversion
You are good at it and don't think anyone would deny that. My issue is that people see my full-art Planeswalkers as being worth about the same as a mass produced foil version of the same card. I really think that keeps me from charging more.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
If someone wanted me to do another Liliana like the last one I did, I'd want $50 cash, no trade, their card not mine.
That is a bit more than 2x the Japanese Foil value, and roughly $19/hour.
Because when people roll their eyes at me when I say full art Planewalkers are $50 (which is what I think they should be) I know I'm not getting clients. I need the money (diapers for 2 and if I want to play I have to have a hobby that pays for itself) and if I send clients away I'm not getting that money. I wrote more, but I sound like a whiney B, so I deleted it. I guess it's a sore subject since I have been swindled and robbed with my gallery dealings in the past.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Ebay that stuff, then. If you do a good full-art walker, it shouldn't end less than $40.
When I found this thread I was amazed! So many posters on here are wonderfully talented and I hope the altered card market booms to the point that those of you who do commissions can feel good about charging whatever you want and never have problems staying busy. I feel very fortunate to have been able to use the trading forum on here to get some cards altered by nofingers and anxiously await the card he is in the process of altering for me now. Good luck to all of you!
Ok. What? As someone who is actively looking into art as a career, this actually happens a lot (though I've never gotten flak in regards to alters- just people never responding back once they hear my prices :P).
I sometimes wonder if I charge a bit too much, but I'm friggin busy, and still making rent barely before the end of the month. I take time on my alters, and although it's sometimes a problem, I hope for my client's sake that it's worth it.
Considering that us as alterers never get to keep the cards we've spent time on, I don't see any other way that getting payed could make sense.
Also, are you still looking into alters for yourself yawg? Would like to see more of your work that isn't borderless.
@Balu: There is an in-between. If you want X and Y, and they say $40, that means pick one, and they will probably do it for $20. As it is, I'm not making a whole lot of money if you want to look at hourly rates (I take a while :P).
Art Page
Alters for sale
ebay has been terrible. I am pretty sure that I am doing something wrong or I am highly overrating my own work (which I am told I never do). I have my first piece right now above $10. $10 hardly covers the card + shipping and that is as good as it's been. I am not complaining or calling the people that DO win my auctions cheap. I am extremely appreciative of anyone willing to invest in my time and energy, but I usually end up pocketing $3-$4 per card after fees, shipping, and the initial cost of the card. I do much better here and at the local shops, but they still have a threshold.
The same was true with paintings when I was aggressively promoting my work. The people that I appealed to were not the high-society types that were willing to pay for large one of a kind paintings. The people that liked my work were the types of people that go to galleries to hang out and drink free wine and talk trash about high society types that could afford the paintings. So, I found that if I could crank out small pieces that cost me under $10 and took less than 1 hour to make I could price them under $75 and they sold like mad. It isn't that people don't want what we do, it's that their value of art is different than ours. I see the closing bids on some of Lara Lou's (SP?) auctions and it feel criminal. I bid on 4HM's stuff because it's important for me to show how much I value them, even if I can't actually afford to win them. Even Card Kitty's work, which sells for pretty solid amounts, is so stupidly low for the level of specialty and quality. Half the bids on the card I have up right now are from my mom and a friend from back in Colorado. They don't even want it, but they still see me as the Art Star I was back in High School. It's all quite insane.
To everyone else: Sorry. I talk.
That is badass.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
~Tyorl Nightwind, Mirewood Ranger
~Banner by Tawnos
For anyone who's vaguely interested in why he keeps mentioning me every now and then, it's because I made a match for his Tendrils of Agony on a Duress and I bet he's got it in a little window and is staring at it right now
But no, srsly, I think you're allowed censoring on here right? Right?
Uh, well, I don't wanna get crucified for this, but since there's no naughty bits showing, I'm going to assume it'll be okay if I post this....
If it really screams NSFW, then let me know and I'll take it down, okay?
oh man I'm going to h#!! for thisss
same with me, It takes a very long time to do ink blending, and I usually spent around 3-4 hours per card, which usually means im lucky if i even make 10ish/hour.
Like I said, mind-meltingly-delicious :3
Wow. Naughty censor bars even, I might change them to be slightly larger if I were you, haha.
Poor Dawn, the tentacles just never leave her alone.
I think I had been spoiled by eBay, as that's where I saw my first altered cards over a year ago. Frequently, unless the thing was drop dead gorgeous and/or highly original, you could get an decent alter for a small percentage of the price of the card.
When the first person quoted me $40 on top of a $5 card, when I had seen work of similar quality go on eBay for more like $10 total, I had to say it was a bit of a shock. Although now I realize that from an artists point of view, they just had to pray when they listed it on eBay, as it is so subjective. I also realize that good alters often take hours and hours to do, and if I was an artist, I'd make it priority one to get a name for myself and start doing commissions, as that's when you can actually get paid for your work. There's something to be said for paying your dues though.
I do know that if I could afford it, I had have 75 personalized cards in most of my decks.
Dunno, a bar would probably more effective
Indeed.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
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Here is a neat one I made for a guy the other day... didn't pay much for it considering it took almost 3 hours, but it turned out pretty neat...
Tentacle-surprise-sex besides, that's pretty good
Also, what Morphling said: Poor Dawn!
A headless horseman feels like it should be on a swamp, and that art looks swampy.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Personally I think it should be on an actual legends headless horseman....I'll havta hunt down one now...
I have an outline on a duress on my own, and am kinda wondering what to fill in the rest of it with.
lemme know what you would think would look good.
duress:
Both very awesome. I particularly like your original art
The second one is also subpurb, altered PW with correct leg proportion? Sweet!
What exactly do you mean by "extended art" in contrast to "full frame"? Extending a wing here and a sword there, but leaving the most part of the card`s border unchanged?
My gallery of altered cards
You have to be a big standout to really make any money at it now (like Yawg etc) and have a name for yourself (again, Yawg).
~Center of the Gaming Universe~
Microsuck
Heh, I was gonna suggest a hand pointing at her or touching her, too. Or maybe have it holding something like a collar, I dunno, I could go really weird places with this
But if hands aren't your thing, maybe you could jazz up the background.....
Ah, idea! Is that in pencil? Hope so - I was thinking that instead of having her arms by her sides, pull them up in front of her so they look like a backwards L, and have her hands chained in manacles from the top of the card
But if you don't want to go to those lengths, then have that red thought mist swirling around in the background
Just some of my ideas
........ D: Eheheheh.... No censors, eh? Oops