I'm sorry this took me so long, Az, but I did need to check a few things, get permission from two admin, so on and so forth. I still don't have permission from the OP of the comment, so I can't give you a name or wording.
That said, I do want to make sure you know that on 7-10-12, at 7:04pm CST, the first statement about your 'indiscretion' had been said. This was over a week ago. I can't tell you who actually started the discussion on that subject, but I can tell you it wasn't Ria in this case. Within about an hour and a half just about every admin and global had at least commented on it.
I can't speak for Ria concerning anything between 6-27 and 7-10, but I CAN say that this subject was not started by Ria.
So what happens if Hannes steps in and supports Ria? Are we back to square one? Do we just keep making these threads?
Then so be it. That's when the situation becomes personal for everyone: Do I want to stay affiliated with a forum that promotes and accepts these behaviors or should I move my interests elsewhere. Even if Hannes steps in and backs Rian, we still have a choice and a next step. That never stopped being a thing.
The reason we don't do it now is because we aren't having an issue with the person in absolute power. If this issue was regarding Hannes, then we could talk about having no choice and going away. It's not though, and it happens that Hannes one of the only people, if not the only person, with power enough to change the way the website works.
I'm not sure I'd leave anyway. Just because a person doesn't agree with the way their country is run doesn't mean they should run from their country. They fight for the country against the runners.
As for Hannes absence, I understand he's mostly gone and totally removed from the day-to-day, but I see this as a good thing. He doesn't have to know what goes on day-to-day to see what's wrong here. He's getting a much broader, objectified view of the situation when he steps in. We are all involved and have personalized the issue, replacing opinion with stubbornness and putting every movement under a microscope. I agree that there's wrongdoings to be righted, but there are also a lot of minor issues and personal issues that I feel are arguments stretched to their limit.
I believe that Hannes would come in, see that there are some racial slurs being used, see that there are flaming comments being thrown and see a general tone of distaste within Rian's conduct and he would take some sort of action. I would be happy with Hannes course of action regarding these issues, whatever his course of actions may be. His removed mindset is a healthy one for decision making.
Finally, if Hannes is indeed so far removed, then I think it would be a good way to "sign off", so to speak, by patching the holes in MTGS's roof.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I'm sorry this took me so long, Az, but I did need to check a few things, get permission from two admin, so on and so forth. I still don't have permission from the OP of the comment, so I can't give you a name or wording.
That said, I do want to make sure you know that on 7-10-12, at 7:04pm CST, the first statement about your 'indiscretion' had been said. This was over a week ago. I can't tell you who actually started the discussion on that subject, but I can tell you it wasn't Ria in this case. Within about an hour and a half just about every admin and global had at least commented on it.
I can't speak for Ria concerning anything between 6-27 and 7-10, but I CAN say that this subject was not started by Ria.
I appreciate that, Nai. As to specific timelines and the origins of ideas, my only real interest is in 6-27, between the hours of 7 and 4 PM, on whether or not someone besides Rian had commented in the global lounge arguing against my coming on board because it might undermine confidence in the staff.
I appreciate that, Nai. As to specific timelines and the origins of ideas, my only real interest is in 6-27, between the hours of 7 and 4 PM, on whether or not someone besides Rian had commented in the global lounge arguing against my coming on board because it might undermine confidence in the staff.
Can you clarify that?
I will go take a look, but the search function for specific dates in this version of vB is horrifying. This may take me a short while, and I'll need higher up approval to reveal whatever I find. Be patient with me.
I can't speak for Ria concerning anything between 6-27 and 7-10, but I CAN say that this subject was not started by Ria.
I thank you for providing this information for us, though I will state that just because Rianalnn doesn't start a thread doesn't mean his shadow politics aren't at play. He has fostered a culture of deceit, paranoia, and manipulation. How many manipulative PMs has he sent to his subordinates?
Mods posting under gimmicks out of fear of retribution from their superiors is a first on MTGSalvation. Ria's PMs to Manders are uncalled for, rude, and wholly inappropriate. The list of abuses (N_S) posted - factual events - also speaks volumes.
I will go take a look, but the search function for specific dates in this version of vB is horrifying. This may take me a short while, and I'll need higher up approval to reveal whatever I find. Be patient with me.
Was there a thread at all?
By all means, I'm in no rush for information, and it's important for the staff to comply with the administration's confidentiality policies - however they may have changed in recent times.
I can confirm that on 6-26-2012 at 5:13 am CST, there was a post specifically about taking you back on staff. This post was NOT by Ria. As with the previous post I unearthed, I'm leaving the originator of this post anonymous until they choose to identify themselves. The post, paraphrased, said that we would be best served holding off on bringing you back on staff until after the Gutter mess had ended. The reasoning was that bringing you back on board would be seen as, essentially, breaking a window of a neighbor and then running off to a parent to fix the issue. The staff would be seen as impotent, needing you to fix the messes we get ourselves into. However, it was brought up that bringing you back would have been awesome.
The former post, about 'burning bridges', was in a post specifically talking about bringing members back onto staff.
This post was in the midst of a discussion on how to handle the Gutter drama. It did not have its own post.
CK: While I'm taking that gimmick seriously and do not want to brush it off, I would like to ask that you take that with a grain of salt. Speaking for myself, I personally have reservations about accepting the testimony of a gimmick with no history. This is why I've asked for them to identify themselves to me so we can be assured this is not someone trying to heighten the drama.
I, too, have been targeted by rianalnn as described in Azrael's post.
Several months ago, I was told on AIM to "go piss up a rope." I went to find the chat log, but apparently I didn't set my AIM to save chat logs until after that.
Ria's welcome to correct me, but I believe this is what happened:
I went to him regarding the Sex thread I had gotten started in the Speakeasy. I said something that wasn't hostile, but he interpreted it as such and said the above quote. I was highly offended, much more bickering occurred, and it actually led to an enormous fight between r_0 and myself that night. It was terrible.
More recently, there was this:
He didn't actually respond to my question until I brought it up again in the thread in question in the mod lounge, which means I can't show you what he said.
I ask you all here: is there any evidence of me "getting in his face" in my PMs?
For the record, I asked him those questions because this read as him trying to pit me against the Gutter and get me back on the anti-Gutter side. Regardless of his intentions, I feel this PM and the AIM instance that I have are very unbecoming of an Admin. I also feel that this shows that ria cannot remove his emotion from the site and it is hindering his ability to perform satisfactorily. I agree that it will be better if ria steps down as Admin, or at least restricts himself to the technical side of being an Admin.
I also encourage any Mods who feel the same way or have had similar situations with ria to speak up. Now is the time to lay it all on the table and end this entire debate once and for all.
You can't see it in this quote, but if you link to it and read Manders back-and-forth with Rian, it's quite distasteful. I can't imagine the omitted words being anything other than racial slurs. This is so distasteful, so without class that I feel it's enough to remove administrator status from Rian by itself. This isn't counting the fact that Rian is insinuating that they had already done this once before, to Annorax, someone I found quite agreeable from my limited interactions with him. The insinuated previous occasions of abuse for personal gain and the use of the racial slur combined make me believe this is a deserved banning, and this is just one of the several incidents I have read in this thread. It's embarrassing to me and to the community as a whole.
As a side note, I'd like to say that up until this point, I had always thought it would be a sort of dream come true to be a mod, to be given that amount of trust and to be recognized as a mainstay in a worthwhile online community. I don't know anything about Modding but I knew that I wanted to be one, or at least try. Seeing this now, I've become disillusioned. It's really saddening to me that some people can take advantage of so many peoples trust. It's not like this hasn't happened before in several other aspects of our lives, but I guess I like to think that there are places yet untouched by corruption and powerplays. I thought Salvation was one of those places. I guess I thought wrong, I just hadn't seen it then. One thing you learn playing mafia, when you see corruption, you get rid of it. That's how you win the game and it's a damn good rule for life too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I can confirm that on 6-26-2012 at 5:13 am CST, there was a post specifically about taking you back on staff. This post was NOT by Ria. As with the previous post I unearthed, I'm leaving the originator of this post anonymous until they choose to identify themselves. The post, paraphrased, said that we would be best served holding off on bringing you back on staff until after the Gutter mess had ended. The reasoning was that bringing you back on board would be seen as, essentially, breaking a window of a neighbor and then running off to a parent to fix the issue. The staff would be seen as impotent, needing you to fix the messes we get ourselves into. However, it was brought up that bringing you back would have been awesome.
I have absolutely no problem saying that the OP of the thread (and the post Nai mentions from 6-26-2012) was me, in case anyone considers that relevant information.
Gricky, I need to step in here and inform you that you're misreading that exchange, if I'm correct. Ria would have been quoting ( N_S ). So it would be ( N_S ) that would have said whatever the omitted word is.
You're also several days late on Homestuck posts. Snap to!
Gricky, I need to step in here and inform you that you're misreading that exchange, if I'm correct. Ria would have been quoting ( N_S ). So it would be ( N_S ) that would have said whatever the omitted word is.
You're also several days late on Homestuck posts. Snap to!
Ah, I see what you are saying now. Still, I felt like the interaction could have done with less N-word. And also (apparent) manipulation. Cause that's what the exchange really looks like. Dunno if that's infraction worthy, but I do know it's downright dirty.
Also, my bad. Snapping!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
On the off chance my identity gets back to Ria, I don't want to be the reason whoever figures it out gets a cookie. I frankly don't trust anyone right now, I shouldn't have to be doing this. Not to mention my pursuant CoC review, which is a joke in itself, and probable lynching. What I did was far worse in most eyes than what Azrael did, and he's a black sheep all of a sudden. I'm going to try and change the one size fits what I feel rules(N_S and kijin's suspensions), not fall victim to them. It will be far easier if I take no risks and dismiss my own posts as trawlin'.
I'm sorry to hear that. This being said, I still offer you sanctuary on that regard. I added my skype to my user profile, so you can contact me there. I have also already talked to the upper staff and ensured that there will be no CoC review whatsoever. If you reveal yourself to me (and, again, I can't ask you enough to do so), it will be in complete and utter privacy.
I'm not getting heavily into this discussion, because I don't feel I have been sufficiently aware of the general goings-on around the forum recently to have an informed opinion on the leadership or personal character of rian as an administrator (though we have worked together in the past and I have not had any bad experiences with him.)
All I will say is that I have the utmost respect for Azrael and I reject out of hand any notion of him having an ulterior motive or an axe to grind. Disagree with him if you will, challenge his facts or his reasoning if you think they're in error, but in the 6+ years over which I've interacted with him, I have never known him to argue in bad faith.
How 'bout you just tell me what my first name is, then, Dangerzone? It's in my staff application in the Staff Inbox. I give you permission.
That's a great idea, Misclick. That way we can verify Dangerzone's claim of being a mod, hence giving him credibility and dispelling any notions he is a "TomServo" troll (as some folks may believe).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sounds like a valid point.
That said, I do want to make sure you know that on 7-10-12, at 7:04pm CST, the first statement about your 'indiscretion' had been said. This was over a week ago. I can't tell you who actually started the discussion on that subject, but I can tell you it wasn't Ria in this case. Within about an hour and a half just about every admin and global had at least commented on it.
I can't speak for Ria concerning anything between 6-27 and 7-10, but I CAN say that this subject was not started by Ria.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Then so be it. That's when the situation becomes personal for everyone: Do I want to stay affiliated with a forum that promotes and accepts these behaviors or should I move my interests elsewhere. Even if Hannes steps in and backs Rian, we still have a choice and a next step. That never stopped being a thing.
The reason we don't do it now is because we aren't having an issue with the person in absolute power. If this issue was regarding Hannes, then we could talk about having no choice and going away. It's not though, and it happens that Hannes one of the only people, if not the only person, with power enough to change the way the website works.
I'm not sure I'd leave anyway. Just because a person doesn't agree with the way their country is run doesn't mean they should run from their country. They fight for the country against the runners.
As for Hannes absence, I understand he's mostly gone and totally removed from the day-to-day, but I see this as a good thing. He doesn't have to know what goes on day-to-day to see what's wrong here. He's getting a much broader, objectified view of the situation when he steps in. We are all involved and have personalized the issue, replacing opinion with stubbornness and putting every movement under a microscope. I agree that there's wrongdoings to be righted, but there are also a lot of minor issues and personal issues that I feel are arguments stretched to their limit.
I believe that Hannes would come in, see that there are some racial slurs being used, see that there are flaming comments being thrown and see a general tone of distaste within Rian's conduct and he would take some sort of action. I would be happy with Hannes course of action regarding these issues, whatever his course of actions may be. His removed mindset is a healthy one for decision making.
Finally, if Hannes is indeed so far removed, then I think it would be a good way to "sign off", so to speak, by patching the holes in MTGS's roof.
I appreciate that, Nai. As to specific timelines and the origins of ideas, my only real interest is in 6-27, between the hours of 7 and 4 PM, on whether or not someone besides Rian had commented in the global lounge arguing against my coming on board because it might undermine confidence in the staff.
Can you clarify that?
I will go take a look, but the search function for specific dates in this version of vB is horrifying. This may take me a short while, and I'll need higher up approval to reveal whatever I find. Be patient with me.
My helpdesk should you need me.
I thank you for providing this information for us, though I will state that just because Rianalnn doesn't start a thread doesn't mean his shadow politics aren't at play. He has fostered a culture of deceit, paranoia, and manipulation. How many manipulative PMs has he sent to his subordinates?
Mods posting under gimmicks out of fear of retribution from their superiors is a first on MTGSalvation. Ria's PMs to Manders are uncalled for, rude, and wholly inappropriate. The list of abuses (N_S) posted - factual events - also speaks volumes.
Was there a thread at all?
By all means, I'm in no rush for information, and it's important for the staff to comply with the administration's confidentiality policies - however they may have changed in recent times.
I can confirm that on 6-26-2012 at 5:13 am CST, there was a post specifically about taking you back on staff. This post was NOT by Ria. As with the previous post I unearthed, I'm leaving the originator of this post anonymous until they choose to identify themselves. The post, paraphrased, said that we would be best served holding off on bringing you back on staff until after the Gutter mess had ended. The reasoning was that bringing you back on board would be seen as, essentially, breaking a window of a neighbor and then running off to a parent to fix the issue. The staff would be seen as impotent, needing you to fix the messes we get ourselves into. However, it was brought up that bringing you back would have been awesome.
The former post, about 'burning bridges', was in a post specifically talking about bringing members back onto staff.
This post was in the midst of a discussion on how to handle the Gutter drama. It did not have its own post.
CK: While I'm taking that gimmick seriously and do not want to brush it off, I would like to ask that you take that with a grain of salt. Speaking for myself, I personally have reservations about accepting the testimony of a gimmick with no history. This is why I've asked for them to identify themselves to me so we can be assured this is not someone trying to heighten the drama.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Sure.
You can't see it in this quote, but if you link to it and read Manders back-and-forth with Rian, it's quite distasteful. I can't imagine the omitted words being anything other than racial slurs. This is so distasteful, so without class that I feel it's enough to remove administrator status from Rian by itself. This isn't counting the fact that Rian is insinuating that they had already done this once before, to Annorax, someone I found quite agreeable from my limited interactions with him. The insinuated previous occasions of abuse for personal gain and the use of the racial slur combined make me believe this is a deserved banning, and this is just one of the several incidents I have read in this thread. It's embarrassing to me and to the community as a whole.
As a side note, I'd like to say that up until this point, I had always thought it would be a sort of dream come true to be a mod, to be given that amount of trust and to be recognized as a mainstay in a worthwhile online community. I don't know anything about Modding but I knew that I wanted to be one, or at least try. Seeing this now, I've become disillusioned. It's really saddening to me that some people can take advantage of so many peoples trust. It's not like this hasn't happened before in several other aspects of our lives, but I guess I like to think that there are places yet untouched by corruption and powerplays. I thought Salvation was one of those places. I guess I thought wrong, I just hadn't seen it then. One thing you learn playing mafia, when you see corruption, you get rid of it. That's how you win the game and it's a damn good rule for life too.
I have absolutely no problem saying that the OP of the thread (and the post Nai mentions from 6-26-2012) was me, in case anyone considers that relevant information.
You're also several days late on Homestuck posts. Snap to!
My helpdesk should you need me.
Ah, I see what you are saying now. Still, I felt like the interaction could have done with less N-word. And also (apparent) manipulation. Cause that's what the exchange really looks like. Dunno if that's infraction worthy, but I do know it's downright dirty.
Also, my bad. Snapping!
Point retracted with apologies.
Oh dear. I hope Ria didn't get gotten by a drop bear.
My helpdesk should you need me.
My helpdesk should you need me.
All I will say is that I have the utmost respect for Azrael and I reject out of hand any notion of him having an ulterior motive or an axe to grind. Disagree with him if you will, challenge his facts or his reasoning if you think they're in error, but in the 6+ years over which I've interacted with him, I have never known him to argue in bad faith.
(Except as mafia. :))
That's a great idea, Misclick. That way we can verify Dangerzone's claim of being a mod, hence giving him credibility and dispelling any notions he is a "TomServo" troll (as some folks may believe).
Hiss!
That said, Misclick's idea is absolutely fantastic, and I do encourage you to use that if you feel it's a better way to go.
My helpdesk should you need me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
*whew*