It's quite clear that Dalkon intends to do nothing but troll and de rail this thread, I would request that people stop replying to is baseless accusations and unbacked theories about gutter opposer's, or alternatively I request a moderator action be taken against is intentional de railing of this thread, Dalkon has be told to stop posting before in a previous gutter thread and he is doing the same thing he always does, I don't see why he should be able to troll this thread and get away with it.
uh huh. Like the Gutter Members never troll people. Look, just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't make it any less true. Also, how am I supposed to provide proof of my statements when conviently the majority of said proof either doesn't exist anymore (the testing grounds), or is locked away in a forum that I was forbidden access to a long time ago and which is now locked off to everyone anyways. Awfully convenient for you guys isn't it, that most of the proof your opposition needs is invisible to the majority of the forum posters.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
uh huh. Like the Gutter Members never troll people. Look, just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't make it any less true. Also, how am I supposed to provide proof of my statements when conviently the majority of said proof either doesn't exist anymore (the testing grounds), or is locked away in a forum that I was forbidden access to a long time ago and which is now locked off to everyone anyways. Awfully convenient for you guys isn't it, that most of the proof your opposition needs is invisible to the majority of the forum posters.
You have no proof you have no case, your further participation in this thread is a joke as you have no base for accusations and no reason to posts other than to antagonize posters and de-rail this thread, I would ask that a moderator/admin take action against this needless posting.
I personally think this is impossible because I don't really know what it is you want to know; all I know is that you believe their current reasons to be flawed.. can you elucidate as to what it is you wish them to answer?
If this was the case in this instance obviously specific instance, why were no warnings or infractions given? Also, collectively disagreeing with an athoritarian viewpoint is not a coordinated attack as long as it is done civilly. It is called protest or dissent. I submit the discussion in the moderator helpdesks about the tone and professionalism of certain posts falls into this catagory.
Funny, last I checked even Protests can be considered illegal if done in the wrong way.
Considering this would leave a paper trail a mile wide, do you really thing the members would be so foolish as to actually, intentionally coordinate attacks in the manner you are suggesting?
Actually, your probably right. What a friend of mine suggested is all the more probable now, thank you for reaffirming his suspicion that the Gutter probably has an IRS client or some other off-site way of communicating that cannot be tracked.
Or alternatively it is exactly what it appears to be: a well thought out discussion about an unpopular set of actions taken by someone that is part of the staff that asked for little more than a single standard on both sides.
Funny then that the majority of the gutter users have posts that contain a lot of words that translate to meaningless nonsense in order to increase their character count.
We're back to that citation comment again. And that term, "Spam", I do not think it means what you think it means.
Technically spam means "A canned meat product made primarily from ham." but that is neither here nor there. Ironically, even the Forum's definition is not the correct definition as far as the widely excepted definition of Internet Spam which is "To send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of recipients on the Internet." So I guess we really aren't going to be able to agree on a definition that everyone is happy with here.
Please just admit your viewpoint is slanted, biased, and out of date.
Then you are claiming that somehow the Gutter has changed its way of operation since I last encountered it? Funny, it doesn't seem all that different.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
This thread is not the thread to debate about the Testing Grounds. This is about the current situation and about the staff addressing this current issue. Please refrain from muddling the waters with further discussion of an issue that has long since been resolved.
Please don't make me resort to modtext again. I despise using it, especially in situations such as this.
They tore down the del taco. Where ya gonna hang out now? D:
Zat about right?
Amusing comparison, but yeah I guess that is kind of similar, except is is more like we pointed out a major financial mistake to the owners of this del taco which was meant to help improve the financial structure, but instead they tore down the del taco because they disliked what we were telling them.
I personally think this is impossible because I don't really know what it is you want to know; all I know is that you believe their current reasons to be flawed.. can you elucidate as to what it is you wish them to answer?
So, what I've seen so far is all three administrators have responded, and two of them are unwilling to commit to a stance while extremeicon maintains that they shut it down because they don't like it.
That certainly is underwhelming, and seems like a poor reason for shutting down a community that, as far as I've been involved with it, has been both unharmful and a boon to the website. I am hoping to hear from Hannes, but as of now extremeicon's reasoning sounds more like an excuse for alterior motives than anything else.
This website was made by the community for the community, and Hannes is someone that offered to run it. He may have the final say but the final say is no justification in of itself for harming the community.
I am sorry Yukora, but I have stopped discussing the issue of the renovation of the Testing Grounds. The only thing relating to the Testing Grounds that I am still inclined to discuss was the suspension of AsianInvasion (whether that did or did not directly influence the renovation of the testing grounds I don't really care one wit about). The fact of the matter is that the Gutter was directly involved in getting AsianInvasion suspended. That is an undeniable fact to which I am sure even you will not deny. If you do, I will be sorely disappointed in you as I had come to expect better from you over the years. The Gutter purposefully went into AsianInvasion's Extendo and enmasse reported the opening post of his Extendo for an image that was no more unsafe for work websites than Michaelangelo's David (in fact it was probably considerably MORE work safe). And yet he was suspended all the same. And if you dare say Michaelangelo's David is not safe for work, several generations of Art Majors will turn over in their graves.
Funny, last I checked even Protests can be considered illegal if done in the wrong way.
True. That's exactly my point, though. In this instance, they have been carried out the "legal" suggested way. In real world protests, when they are pushed down by those with authority, this is called "social injustice".
Actually, your probably right. What a friend of mine suggested is all the more probable now, thank you for reaffirming his suspicion that the Gutter probably has an IRS client or some other off-site way of communicating that cannot be tracked.
Yes, you are correct. There is a subforum of the subforum that requires admitance to the third subforum and a secret handshake and a blue pill. And we're all pinkos, too. /end sarcasm, couldn't help myself.
Funny then that the majority of the gutter users have posts that contain a lot of words that translate to meaningless nonsense in order to increase their character count.
Baseless, defeated dismissal noted.
Technically spam means "A canned meat product made primarily from ham." but that is neither here nor there. Ironically, even the Forum's definition is not the correct definition as far as the widely excepted definition of Internet Spam which is "To send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of recipients on the Internet." So I guess we really aren't going to be able to agree on a definition that everyone is happy with here.
We should, though. You used the word to say that it was a deliberate tactic used. You should be able to define the term you are using to make your agrument stick.
Then you are claiming that somehow the Gutter has changed its way of operation since I last encountered it? Funny, it doesn't seem all that different.
Again, how would you know?
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I am sorry Yukora, but I have stopped discussing the issue of the renovation of the Testing Grounds. The only thing relating to the Testing Grounds that I am still inclined to discuss was the suspension of AsianInvasion (whether that did or did not directly influence the renovation of the testing grounds I don't really care one wit about. The fact of the matter is that the Gutter was directly involved in getting AsianInvasion suspended. That is an undeniable fact to which I am sure even you will not deny. If you do, I will be sorely disappointed in you as I had come to expect better from you over the years. The Gutter purposefully went into AsianInvasion's Extendo and enmasse reported the opening post of his Extendo for an image that was no more unsafe for work websites than Michaelangelo's David (in fact it was probably considerably MORE work safe). And yet he was suspended all the same.
And yet this is all beside the point. You're angry that some members associated with the gutter reported your friend. Please take this to a mod helpdesk where it belongs and stop insulting me with this.
Yes, I read that, but all I could gather was baseless accusation that ExtremeIcon was being untruthful. What led you to that conclusion besides personal bias?
Here's what I'm getting at: the reason doesn't matter. Again, the Gutter is Gone, deal with it. What do you think would be amicable terms for its re-opening?
And yet this is all beside the point. You're angry that some members associated with the gutter reported your friend. Please take this to a mod helpdesk where it belongs and stop insulting me with this.
What good would that do now? The suspension hasn't been in effect for at least a year if not more. There is no point arguing it in a help desk now. I am not even sure AsianInvasion still posts on this website anyways.
And Metal Streaming Through Our Veins outlives another community. \m/,
(even though it's pretty much been ten of us posting in it for the last 6 years)
Anyways, sorry to hear about your loss. I imagine this is how I'd feel if they closed our thread, becuase oddly enough it's the only place I post/read here anymore and the sole reason I come. I wouldn't have even known about this if Talore hadn't posted there and I saw his sig.
So here I am declaring my solidarity with a metal brother. Talore, if you didn't shred I honestly wouldn't have cared, but you gotta look out for your brothers in the pit.
I've read every post in this thread, and I've followed most (if not all) of the external links to supporting material. I've seen rational and impassioned arguments from both sides and I understand each position. I don't have any enemies, friends, or vested interests. All of that to say: this isn't an attempt to flame, troll, derail, or noob-spam (I think I made that up, but it seems like an appropriate term for many of the "wutz the gutter lol" posts I've seen). I simply have a question.
Many people have claimed that The Gutter contributed to and improved the forums by providing a place for legitimate discussions to take place. Assuming that is true, what was (is?) unique about The Gutter that allows it to serve that function while simultaneously preventing other apparently similar areas (CI, WCT, etc.) from doing so? If the only unique feature of The Gutter was (is?) the ability to post NSFW / 18+ material, then that seems to suggest that the people advocating the value of The Gutter to the forums as a whole believe that such material is necessary to communicate their points, which seems silly, and appears to be what extremeicon was addressing in his concluding paragraph that many have quoted disdainfully.
We should, though. You used the word to say that it was a deliberate tactic used. You should be able to define the term you are using to make your agrument stick.
A flood of messages from one user or a small sub group of users that over whelms the ability of other posters to keep up with the content being posted, not to mention preventing the proper function of the thread in question from being performed.
And before anyone accuses me of violating my own definition, technically my posting speed is far under what I would classify as a flood
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
Would much rather here from some more admins and mods on this issue. Thank you to those admins/mods who have already responded, I know you are busy but I would appreciate any more responses you can give us.
Many people have claimed that The Gutter contributed to and improved the forums by providing a place for legitimate discussions to take place. Assuming that is true, what was (is?) unique about The Gutter that allows it to serve that function while simultaneously preventing other apparently similar areas (CI, WCT, etc.) from doing so? If the only unique feature of The Gutter was (is?) the ability to post NSFW / 18+ material, then that seems to suggest that the people advocating the value of The Gutter to the forums as a whole believe that such material is necessary to communicate their points, which seems silly, and appears to be what extremeicon was addressing in his concluding paragraph that many have quoted disdainfully.
Google Steven King's "Why We Crave Horror Movies" essay for my reply to part of the sentiment of this question.
See the above arguments for how members (myself included) feel they serve the good by addressing issues with the staff that are ignored/dismissed for the rest.
A flood of messages from one user or a small sub group of users that over whelms the ability of other posters to keep up with the content being posted, not to mention preventing the proper function of the thread in question from being performed.
And before anyone accuses me of violating my own definition, technically my posting speed is far under what I would classify as a flood
Ah, so you meant flooding. But again, flooding is contentless, and would have received an infraction. In conclusion, I respectfully suggest you simply admit your defeat and move on to some other thread.
I've read every post in this thread, and I've followed most (if not all) of the external links to supporting material. I've seen rational and impassioned arguments from both sides and I understand each position. I don't have any enemies, friends, or vested interests. All of that to say: this isn't an attempt to flame, troll, derail, or noob-spam (I think I made that up, but it seems like an appropriate term for many of the "wutz the gutter lol" posts I've seen). I simply have a question.
Many people have claimed that The Gutter contributed to and improved the forums by providing a place for legitimate discussions to take place. Assuming that is true, what was (is?) unique about The Gutter that allows it to serve that function while simultaneously preventing other apparently similar areas (CI, WCT, etc.) from doing so? If the only unique feature of The Gutter was (is?) the ability to post NSFW / 18+ material, then that seems to suggest that the people advocating the value of The Gutter to the forums as a whole believe that such material is necessary to communicate their points, which seems silly, and appears to be what extremeicon was addressing in his concluding paragraph that many have quoted disdainfully.
The NSFW links were only in the beginning of a 3960 page thread, by the original posters of the gutter around the time of ravinca. the newer posts may of had cursing and inflammatory posts, which i will admit were mostly from myself, but they were more in a friendly 'hey we are all friends, including baguy!' kind of deal.
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i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
Would much rather here from some more admins and mods on this issue. Thank you to those admins/mods who have already responded, I know you are busy but I would appreciate any more responses you can give us.
But why should they listen to you? I've already leveled allegations on you of personal bias against them.
I am here because I have a vested interest in this (preventing any more aggravating posting, as I said previously). You are also here because of that. Can you understand how someone could interpret your actions as being a bit 'slippery' if you're "unwilling to answer the non-mods but unwilling to listen to the mods"?
The NSFW links were only in the beginning of a 3960 page thread, by the original posters of the gutter around the time of ravinca. the newer posts may of had cursing and inflammatory posts, which i will admit were mostly from myself, but they were more in a friendly 'hey we are all friends, including baguy!' kind of deal.
I will personally agree with this, as a specific target of iaab's posts. All's fair, and I learned, mostly
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Not to be rude or unfriendly but this isn't a good time. I do hope you understand.
Welcome and try to enjoy your time here among it all.
Hi.
Looking back, looking in, and with 6 m/6 m, the wiki project associated with the site MTG Salvation has been of moderate success and please note that, as evidence, the Gutter having a page is not at all admissible. Furthermore, if we're not being anal here, even in a form I recall seeing and is apparently hidden, it was an appalling article with not only content missing by omission (I trust y'all have lives) and a dearth of updating but content missing by deliberate other forms of suppression. The logic with which some of you argue your case is astonishing; specifically relating to the wiki, I am astounded by the amount of circular reasoning. I am also dumbfounded by the degree of personal history being dredged in these posts (for example, LogicX's request; it's all not relevant) and Mississippi mud amid it all (e.g., re: Clans, re: Testing Grounds, etc.).
"For what it's worth", a reply from site administration or site owner Hannes would be good but it would giving it some time, grouping thoughts, and developing and presenting a "united front" (pardon the gross misuse of communist terminology) would be advisable.
If none are replying (yet?), it's not necessarily their ignoring or rejection of the issue or problem.
The Gutter on MTGS has been around since the forum's first founding in January 2005... before Yukora had even joined the site.
This is a bit of an ask but since you've been there/here in the beginning or early days, could you feed me facts about the Gutter? (I recall you're among the first few or few hundred to have joined MTGS.)
If no, I do understand; you're busy, we're all busy, or other(s).
Pardon the absence of niceties, "Oh, hi." &c.
Edit: If it's not absurdly difficult, could the Gutter mods finally be removed of their user group privileges? Ta-ra.
Ah, so you meant flooding. But again, flooding is contentless, and would have received an infraction. In conclusion, I respectfully suggest you simply admit your defeat and move on to some other thread.
Flooding is not by necessity contentless. It can be used in conjunction with content based messages as well. In fact the better the people behind the flood messages are at the task, the more content the flood messages will have.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
then that seems to suggest that the people advocating the value of The Gutter to the forums as a whole believe that such material is necessary to communicate their points, which seems silly, and appears to be what extremeicon was addressing in his concluding paragraph that many have quoted disdainfully.
You were so close. We wouldn't fight back with passion if it was just a place where you can swear without getting infracted. The Gutter is a community in of itself, and badgering it to that purpose is like badgering Clans because they could just post in WCT, or any other specialist board. We are able to speak with other people who we know are mature enough to handle any subject matter without random posters flying in with attention-drama, pointless detracting posts, or clashes of passioned opinion that is unavoidable in the rest of the forum.
I mean, the fact that we defend it passionately MEANS something. I'm sorry to drag this in here but yesterday my best friend told me she failed a suicide attempt. I was crushed and drained. This morning I woke up feeling like a zombie, and I was hoping to read some entertaining banter between people who all know each other, who can speak without filters and share laffs. Instead I find it shut down. I personally demand justice, plain and simple. The Gutter has an atmosphere like no other, whether it be a place to vent, speak about the board, or just engage in some blunt humor. I feel like the staff just spit into my face after the rug was pulled out from under me.
The fact that I have been rallying all day and that others have is an indication of merit. If this wasn't IMPORTANT this wouldn't have over 200 replies in 10 hours..
uh huh. Like the Gutter Members never troll people. Look, just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't make it any less true. Also, how am I supposed to provide proof of my statements when conviently the majority of said proof either doesn't exist anymore (the testing grounds), or is locked away in a forum that I was forbidden access to a long time ago and which is now locked off to everyone anyways. Awfully convenient for you guys isn't it, that most of the proof your opposition needs is invisible to the majority of the forum posters.
Also, waiting for Hannes to say something...
LOL
You have no proof you have no case, your further participation in this thread is a joke as you have no base for accusations and no reason to posts other than to antagonize posters and de-rail this thread, I would ask that a moderator/admin take action against this needless posting.
Still waiting on replies from admins/mods/hannes.
You guys are internet del rats!
They tore down the del taco. Where ya gonna hang out now? D:
Zat about right?
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
I personally think this is impossible because I don't really know what it is you want to know; all I know is that you believe their current reasons to be flawed.. can you elucidate as to what it is you wish them to answer?
Funny, last I checked even Protests can be considered illegal if done in the wrong way.
Actually, your probably right. What a friend of mine suggested is all the more probable now, thank you for reaffirming his suspicion that the Gutter probably has an IRS client or some other off-site way of communicating that cannot be tracked.
Funny then that the majority of the gutter users have posts that contain a lot of words that translate to meaningless nonsense in order to increase their character count.
Technically spam means "A canned meat product made primarily from ham." but that is neither here nor there. Ironically, even the Forum's definition is not the correct definition as far as the widely excepted definition of Internet Spam which is "To send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of recipients on the Internet." So I guess we really aren't going to be able to agree on a definition that everyone is happy with here.
Then you are claiming that somehow the Gutter has changed its way of operation since I last encountered it? Funny, it doesn't seem all that different.
This thread is not the thread to debate about the Testing Grounds. This is about the current situation and about the staff addressing this current issue. Please refrain from muddling the waters with further discussion of an issue that has long since been resolved.
Please don't make me resort to modtext again. I despise using it, especially in situations such as this.
Amusing comparison, but yeah I guess that is kind of similar, except is is more like we pointed out a major financial mistake to the owners of this del taco which was meant to help improve the financial structure, but instead they tore down the del taco because they disliked what we were telling them.
EDIT:
I did that in my post to extremeicon here
That certainly is underwhelming, and seems like a poor reason for shutting down a community that, as far as I've been involved with it, has been both unharmful and a boon to the website. I am hoping to hear from Hannes, but as of now extremeicon's reasoning sounds more like an excuse for alterior motives than anything else.
This website was made by the community for the community, and Hannes is someone that offered to run it. He may have the final say but the final say is no justification in of itself for harming the community.
Yes, you are correct. There is a subforum of the subforum that requires admitance to the third subforum and a secret handshake and a blue pill. And we're all pinkos, too. /end sarcasm, couldn't help myself.
Baseless, defeated dismissal noted.
We should, though. You used the word to say that it was a deliberate tactic used. You should be able to define the term you are using to make your agrument stick.
Again, how would you know?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
And yet this is all beside the point. You're angry that some members associated with the gutter reported your friend. Please take this to a mod helpdesk where it belongs and stop insulting me with this.
Yes, I read that, but all I could gather was baseless accusation that ExtremeIcon was being untruthful. What led you to that conclusion besides personal bias?
Here's what I'm getting at: the reason doesn't matter. Again, the Gutter is Gone, deal with it. What do you think would be amicable terms for its re-opening?
What good would that do now? The suspension hasn't been in effect for at least a year if not more. There is no point arguing it in a help desk now. I am not even sure AsianInvasion still posts on this website anyways.
Spam infraction
(even though it's pretty much been ten of us posting in it for the last 6 years)
Anyways, sorry to hear about your loss. I imagine this is how I'd feel if they closed our thread, becuase oddly enough it's the only place I post/read here anymore and the sole reason I come. I wouldn't have even known about this if Talore hadn't posted there and I saw his sig.
So here I am declaring my solidarity with a metal brother. Talore, if you didn't shred I honestly wouldn't have cared, but you gotta look out for your brothers in the pit.
Many people have claimed that The Gutter contributed to and improved the forums by providing a place for legitimate discussions to take place. Assuming that is true, what was (is?) unique about The Gutter that allows it to serve that function while simultaneously preventing other apparently similar areas (CI, WCT, etc.) from doing so? If the only unique feature of The Gutter was (is?) the ability to post NSFW / 18+ material, then that seems to suggest that the people advocating the value of The Gutter to the forums as a whole believe that such material is necessary to communicate their points, which seems silly, and appears to be what extremeicon was addressing in his concluding paragraph that many have quoted disdainfully.
A flood of messages from one user or a small sub group of users that over whelms the ability of other posters to keep up with the content being posted, not to mention preventing the proper function of the thread in question from being performed.
And before anyone accuses me of violating my own definition, technically my posting speed is far under what I would classify as a flood
See the above arguments for how members (myself included) feel they serve the good by addressing issues with the staff that are ignored/dismissed for the rest.
Ah, so you meant flooding. But again, flooding is contentless, and would have received an infraction. In conclusion, I respectfully suggest you simply admit your defeat and move on to some other thread.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
The NSFW links were only in the beginning of a 3960 page thread, by the original posters of the gutter around the time of ravinca. the newer posts may of had cursing and inflammatory posts, which i will admit were mostly from myself, but they were more in a friendly 'hey we are all friends, including baguy!' kind of deal.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
But why should they listen to you? I've already leveled allegations on you of personal bias against them.
I am here because I have a vested interest in this (preventing any more aggravating posting, as I said previously). You are also here because of that. Can you understand how someone could interpret your actions as being a bit 'slippery' if you're "unwilling to answer the non-mods but unwilling to listen to the mods"?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Welcome and try to enjoy your time here among it all.
Hi.
Looking back, looking in, and with 6 m/6 m, the wiki project associated with the site MTG Salvation has been of moderate success and please note that, as evidence, the Gutter having a page is not at all admissible. Furthermore, if we're not being anal here, even in a form I recall seeing and is apparently hidden, it was an appalling article with not only content missing by omission (I trust y'all have lives) and a dearth of updating but content missing by deliberate other forms of suppression. The logic with which some of you argue your case is astonishing; specifically relating to the wiki, I am astounded by the amount of circular reasoning. I am also dumbfounded by the degree of personal history being dredged in these posts (for example, LogicX's request; it's all not relevant) and Mississippi mud amid it all (e.g., re: Clans, re: Testing Grounds, etc.).
"For what it's worth", a reply from site administration or site owner Hannes would be good but it would giving it some time, grouping thoughts, and developing and presenting a "united front" (pardon the gross misuse of communist terminology) would be advisable.
If none are replying (yet?), it's not necessarily their ignoring or rejection of the issue or problem.
Off-topic:
This is a bit of an ask but since you've been there/here in the beginning or early days, could you feed me facts about the Gutter? (I recall you're among the first few or few hundred to have joined MTGS.)
If no, I do understand; you're busy, we're all busy, or other(s).
Pardon the absence of niceties, "Oh, hi." &c.
Edit: If it's not absurdly difficult, could the Gutter mods finally be removed of their user group privileges? Ta-ra.
Flooding is not by necessity contentless. It can be used in conjunction with content based messages as well. In fact the better the people behind the flood messages are at the task, the more content the flood messages will have.
You were so close. We wouldn't fight back with passion if it was just a place where you can swear without getting infracted. The Gutter is a community in of itself, and badgering it to that purpose is like badgering Clans because they could just post in WCT, or any other specialist board. We are able to speak with other people who we know are mature enough to handle any subject matter without random posters flying in with attention-drama, pointless detracting posts, or clashes of passioned opinion that is unavoidable in the rest of the forum.
I mean, the fact that we defend it passionately MEANS something. I'm sorry to drag this in here but yesterday my best friend told me she failed a suicide attempt. I was crushed and drained. This morning I woke up feeling like a zombie, and I was hoping to read some entertaining banter between people who all know each other, who can speak without filters and share laffs. Instead I find it shut down. I personally demand justice, plain and simple. The Gutter has an atmosphere like no other, whether it be a place to vent, speak about the board, or just engage in some blunt humor. I feel like the staff just spit into my face after the rug was pulled out from under me.
The fact that I have been rallying all day and that others have is an indication of merit. If this wasn't IMPORTANT this wouldn't have over 200 replies in 10 hours..