I don't see why people are complaining about my buying prices and how I generally tend to try to make a profit given that this is really my only way of making money currently (as going around looking for a job just wasn't happening).
What really grinds my gears is that I'm sure that these people (which I think are much bigger dealers in comparison to me) have no problem at all picking cards up off of people for my prices and selling online for profit. I know dozens of people on the island that do this, and generally speaking we'll give much better than website buylist prices (an example of which being the abugames buylist, not the hotlist which is generally decent but usually for hard to find cards).
Is it to make the local dealer that does okay for himself to the point where he doesn't need to take out loans to pay for school (books are expensive, you know) look like some sort of con artist or just a total dummy (i'd use other words, but obvious infractions would occur)? Why would I buy at MOTL prices if that's what I'm going to sell it for? I'm not going to sell at BS Starcity retail price, because then I'd never get any business, and generally speaking, selling cards through ebay after buying at MOTL prices can end up with nothing to show for it but money missing and a few feedback. Whoopee. I COULD do a little better with the pricing, but it just doesn't seem like a difference of .15-.25 (or whatever percentage it would be raised to be more fair) is going to change much.
Anyway, I'm sure that these people are doing this, because it's an obvious no-brainer not to, and their hippocratic tendencies are not appreciated. Some of them just post "your prices suck", or "you're one cheap motherlover" (not to mention, they've done it before and to my knowledge haven't seen any discipline for multiple infractions of the EXACT SAME THING).
So, congratulations, you people, have fun pretending to be all cool, like you don't know what a dealer is or how they make money. Go to just about any well-known store and see what THEY take their cards in for. My local store once bought a set of chrome mox/goblin piledriver/arcbound ravager/dark confidants for 20 bucks. Obviously this person didn't know what he was doing, but well, it happens on a local scene. I know that I've gotten my fair share of blowout deals, so I'm sure that you have as well. Don't think that you are better than me because I look like a scumbag to you. Your comments for the most part are worthless.
I hope that you understand where I am coming from.
Edit: upon checking a certain persons profile page, I see this as their signature...
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaguezombie Interested in painlands, would do for $1 each, thanks!
this is why your sales list consists of all bulk rares ...
I wasn't going to say anything, but now you've officially pissed me off. **** you. What's your problem? Did you sell me the cards or not? You could have just politely said "No thanks, this deal isn't for me" and gone about your business, but now you had to publicly harass me? All these little punches add up, you know (despite the fact that this flaming is probably more severe than your onslaught of small ones). You're officially on my ****list. Gunslinga even admits to buying pains for $1 each (which is the general buy price of any local dealer even when they were worth more, though I'm sure that I don't really have to tell you that). Did you forget to post that you were selling some of your pain lands for 1.25? What's a quarter difference really going to change? Or does it change something?
Oh, and for your information, I hope you can read the part in my sales thread where it says "let's start simple" and "standard binder", this IS my standard bulk rares binder, as the cards that are actually worth something are in what I refer to as "Good binders". If I called it my bulk binder, I'm sure it wouldn't get as much attention (if any).
I accept full responsibility for these words, and expect nothing but the most fair decision as to what to do with me (if anything) from the moderation staff. I probably crossed a line, but enough is enough.
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It's well accepted that dealers buy low and sell high. That's how they make their money. At the same time though, you have to be reasonable and give fair prices. Asking to buy painlands for a dollar or two below their value is ok, but asking for $1 is unreasonable.
If you're angry about people making posts complaining about your prices, you can either have better prices, or report the post and continue with what you're doing.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
But $1 is standard for dealers that sell painlands for ~ $3-4 (they'll buy higher based on popularity, only because they sell higher, some dealers don't even do that!). Pain lands generally sell at stores for $5, so I and most dealers don't think that it's unreasonable, nor do the people that have bought/sold painlands locally in the last year I've been doing this. He also had pain lands for 1.25 in the thread at the time, so...
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On the specific topic of pain lands, I know a site that's buying them at upwards of $3.75 (NM IA Underground River). Hell, I just sold them my heavily played IA Sulfurous Springs for $1.90.
PZ, you are learning the psychological game we all play with each other in an effort to gain the upper hand...although I personally do not play this game in that manner. I try to use good EBay principles in order to do my buying and do not resort to "message board jockeying" in order do so.
But forming a good buylist is a science and an art at the same time--the science is about setting prices at levels that will allow you to simultaneously attract sellers on a regular basis and allow you to make a real profit. The art? Knowing what types of cards you are able to "steal" from unknowing sellers and which ones you will need to pay a little bit more for, with the latter usually being the "easy sellers" (dual lands, etc).
It is a business based upon ROI, or "return on investment", and my personal benchmark is a 35% ROI, meaning that I wish to make 35% on what I put into a particular purchase, after all expenses are paid. I suggest thinking about the business in this manner if you wish to expand, as I would gladly pay $1 for a painland, but if I can sell them for $3, I do not need a 150-200% ROI and thus can pay a little bit more (currently, I pay $1.50 based upon their rotation).
But keep at it, the tricks of the trade will come to you with experience...both good ones and (like this situation) dicey ones :).
Your prices sound reasonable to me. I can't imagine getting significantly more than $1 for painlands from a dealer considering they are no longer standard-legal.
One of the reasons dealers get such cheep deals (like the one who bought a foil baneslayer this weekend for $20) is that they pay cash. People like cash. When you start dealing online people start looking for price lists and stuff like that.
Cash + Next draft signup + captive audience w/ little competition = cheep buy prices.
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One issue on MTGS (and many online trading sites) is that dealers who are buying must compete with players/collectors who are buying at higher prices. I've had buylists on here in the past where I've probably offered prices at or slightly below what you might sell your cards for.
If people see a list like mine next to a list like yours, of course they're going to think your prices are bad. They aren't stopping to think, "Wait, this guy is a dealer, so his worse offers make sense."
That's not to say they should spam up your list or anything, but they aren't crazy for thinking that way either.
Now I have dealt personally with both PZ and The Boss, a few times before, and from what I've encountered I've had a few problems with The Boss's style of doing things, needless to say, he still tends to get the job done.
I've checked PZ zombies list, and he's prices are reasonable in my opinion, and I've never really had a problem working with him, but it never hurts as a few have said to have a few more cards that could be used to interest people looking through your list.
One issue on MTGS (and many online trading sites) is that dealers who are buying must compete with players/collectors who are buying at higher prices. I've had buylists on here in the past where I've probably offered prices at or slightly below what you might sell your cards for.
If people see a list like mine next to a list like yours, of course they're going to think your prices are bad. They aren't stopping to think, "Wait, this guy is a dealer, so his worse offers make sense."
That's not to say they should spam up your list or anything, but they aren't crazy for thinking that way either.
Truth. Most people aren't going to realize that you're trying to be some kind of dealer, and they aren't going to sympathize with your need to make a living. They are going to go with who pays the most money for the cards that they have.
I watch the Market Street forum pretty often, so I saw when you were trying to buy painlands off one guy for $1 and sell them to another guy for $2.50-3.00. I'm not saying that it was right for the_Boss to use profanity and bring all this into his signature (it's pretty immature....I think you should take the high road and get that crap out of your signature as well -- makes you guys look like angsty teenagers who got dumped and broke your skateboard or something), but I can understand why he was originally upset about it. It's not like he or anyone else knows/cares you do this for a living; it's a competetive market, they want good prices. And besides, I think he was selling them for like ~$2...why wouldn't someone just buy them off of him and not spend the $2.50-3 you were trying to sell to someone else? The whole thing is just silly.
Isn't the rule of thumb when it comes to retail markup a roughly 100% increase in product price, to cover overhead, employee wages, insurance, etc?
While it's not a perfect analogy, a person still needs to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Sure, I object to 'ripping people off' as much as the next person, but I consider that where orders of magnitude are involved. Offering someone $2 for their foil Bitterblosom or Tarmogoyf. Offering $10 and trying to sell for $20 is a markup, sure, but it's no worse than trying to buy a jacket or shoes for $100 when, after all is accounted for, the company selling it probably put $50 or less into said item.
When trading one resource with limited usage for another (magic cards for magic cards), it makes sense to me to stick to an equal value. When trading one resource with limited usage for one with vastly wider usage, I don't mind a little markup being included. If someone can only sell a Ball Lightning for $4-5, offering to pay $1-2 for them strikes me as reasonable. It's not a great exchange, and not an offer I'd likely take someone up on, but it's not worthy of demonizing either.
Look at this way; you can trade a "$5 pain land" for $5 worth of cards, but you can't (under most circumstances) buy a drink with it. The versatility of the raw cash alone makes it a more valuable commodity, despite (to us) a $5 bill and a Pain Land being effectively the same thing. One you can use within the community, the other can be used almost anywhere in the world in some fashion or another.
What really grinds my gears is that I'm sure that these people (which I think are much bigger dealers in comparison to me) have no problem at all picking cards up off of people for my prices and selling online for profit. I know dozens of people on the island that do this, and generally speaking we'll give much better than website buylist prices (an example of which being the abugames buylist, not the hotlist which is generally decent but usually for hard to find cards).
Is it to make the local dealer that does okay for himself to the point where he doesn't need to take out loans to pay for school (books are expensive, you know) look like some sort of con artist or just a total dummy (i'd use other words, but obvious infractions would occur)? Why would I buy at MOTL prices if that's what I'm going to sell it for? I'm not going to sell at BS Starcity retail price, because then I'd never get any business, and generally speaking, selling cards through ebay after buying at MOTL prices can end up with nothing to show for it but money missing and a few feedback. Whoopee. I COULD do a little better with the pricing, but it just doesn't seem like a difference of .15-.25 (or whatever percentage it would be raised to be more fair) is going to change much.
Anyway, I'm sure that these people are doing this, because it's an obvious no-brainer not to, and their hippocratic tendencies are not appreciated. Some of them just post "your prices suck", or "you're one cheap motherlover" (not to mention, they've done it before and to my knowledge haven't seen any discipline for multiple infractions of the EXACT SAME THING).
So, congratulations, you people, have fun pretending to be all cool, like you don't know what a dealer is or how they make money. Go to just about any well-known store and see what THEY take their cards in for. My local store once bought a set of chrome mox/goblin piledriver/arcbound ravager/dark confidants for 20 bucks. Obviously this person didn't know what he was doing, but well, it happens on a local scene. I know that I've gotten my fair share of blowout deals, so I'm sure that you have as well. Don't think that you are better than me because I look like a scumbag to you. Your comments for the most part are worthless.
I hope that you understand where I am coming from.
Edit: upon checking a certain persons profile page, I see this as their signature...
Buy Cards! Great Deals, Free Shipping, Awesome Discounts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaguezombie
Interested in painlands, would do for $1 each, thanks!
this is why your sales list consists of all bulk rares ...
I wasn't going to say anything, but now you've officially pissed me off. **** you. What's your problem? Did you sell me the cards or not? You could have just politely said "No thanks, this deal isn't for me" and gone about your business, but now you had to publicly harass me? All these little punches add up, you know (despite the fact that this flaming is probably more severe than your onslaught of small ones). You're officially on my ****list. Gunslinga even admits to buying pains for $1 each (which is the general buy price of any local dealer even when they were worth more, though I'm sure that I don't really have to tell you that). Did you forget to post that you were selling some of your pain lands for 1.25? What's a quarter difference really going to change? Or does it change something?
Oh, and for your information, I hope you can read the part in my sales thread where it says "let's start simple" and "standard binder", this IS my standard bulk rares binder, as the cards that are actually worth something are in what I refer to as "Good binders". If I called it my bulk binder, I'm sure it wouldn't get as much attention (if any).
I accept full responsibility for these words, and expect nothing but the most fair decision as to what to do with me (if anything) from the moderation staff. I probably crossed a line, but enough is enough.
I've also made over 95 bucks on this site since I started on 11/24/09. Give it a try!
Looking to try out a new card site, but need an incentive? Want to buy 2 NM Hallowed Fountains for less than $13 shipped? Send me your email in a PM and I can get you a coupon for $5 off of your first order of $10 or more at cardtitan.com!
If you're angry about people making posts complaining about your prices, you can either have better prices, or report the post and continue with what you're doing.
I've also made over 95 bucks on this site since I started on 11/24/09. Give it a try!
Looking to try out a new card site, but need an incentive? Want to buy 2 NM Hallowed Fountains for less than $13 shipped? Send me your email in a PM and I can get you a coupon for $5 off of your first order of $10 or more at cardtitan.com!
Not criticizing. Just sayin'.
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
But forming a good buylist is a science and an art at the same time--the science is about setting prices at levels that will allow you to simultaneously attract sellers on a regular basis and allow you to make a real profit. The art? Knowing what types of cards you are able to "steal" from unknowing sellers and which ones you will need to pay a little bit more for, with the latter usually being the "easy sellers" (dual lands, etc).
It is a business based upon ROI, or "return on investment", and my personal benchmark is a 35% ROI, meaning that I wish to make 35% on what I put into a particular purchase, after all expenses are paid. I suggest thinking about the business in this manner if you wish to expand, as I would gladly pay $1 for a painland, but if I can sell them for $3, I do not need a 150-200% ROI and thus can pay a little bit more (currently, I pay $1.50 based upon their rotation).
But keep at it, the tricks of the trade will come to you with experience...both good ones and (like this situation) dicey ones :).
Cash + Next draft signup + captive audience w/ little competition = cheep buy prices.
If people see a list like mine next to a list like yours, of course they're going to think your prices are bad. They aren't stopping to think, "Wait, this guy is a dealer, so his worse offers make sense."
That's not to say they should spam up your list or anything, but they aren't crazy for thinking that way either.
I've checked PZ zombies list, and he's prices are reasonable in my opinion, and I've never really had a problem working with him, but it never hurts as a few have said to have a few more cards that could be used to interest people looking through your list.
Truth. Most people aren't going to realize that you're trying to be some kind of dealer, and they aren't going to sympathize with your need to make a living. They are going to go with who pays the most money for the cards that they have.
I watch the Market Street forum pretty often, so I saw when you were trying to buy painlands off one guy for $1 and sell them to another guy for $2.50-3.00. I'm not saying that it was right for the_Boss to use profanity and bring all this into his signature (it's pretty immature....I think you should take the high road and get that crap out of your signature as well -- makes you guys look like angsty teenagers who got dumped and broke your skateboard or something), but I can understand why he was originally upset about it. It's not like he or anyone else knows/cares you do this for a living; it's a competetive market, they want good prices. And besides, I think he was selling them for like ~$2...why wouldn't someone just buy them off of him and not spend the $2.50-3 you were trying to sell to someone else? The whole thing is just silly.
But good luck with your sales!
While it's not a perfect analogy, a person still needs to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Sure, I object to 'ripping people off' as much as the next person, but I consider that where orders of magnitude are involved. Offering someone $2 for their foil Bitterblosom or Tarmogoyf. Offering $10 and trying to sell for $20 is a markup, sure, but it's no worse than trying to buy a jacket or shoes for $100 when, after all is accounted for, the company selling it probably put $50 or less into said item.
When trading one resource with limited usage for another (magic cards for magic cards), it makes sense to me to stick to an equal value. When trading one resource with limited usage for one with vastly wider usage, I don't mind a little markup being included. If someone can only sell a Ball Lightning for $4-5, offering to pay $1-2 for them strikes me as reasonable. It's not a great exchange, and not an offer I'd likely take someone up on, but it's not worthy of demonizing either.
Look at this way; you can trade a "$5 pain land" for $5 worth of cards, but you can't (under most circumstances) buy a drink with it. The versatility of the raw cash alone makes it a more valuable commodity, despite (to us) a $5 bill and a Pain Land being effectively the same thing. One you can use within the community, the other can be used almost anywhere in the world in some fashion or another.
WCommander EeshaBDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefBGGlissa, the TraitorBWVish Kal, Blood ArbiterRUNin, the Pain Artist
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestWRBasandra, Battle SeraphBGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGWGhave, Guru of Spores
RGWUril, the MiststalkerGUBThe MimeoplasmUWGRafiq of the ManyWUBRGSliver Overlord