Ok.... I was beginning to see that I was alone in my complaints, and if other members liked the rules, and no other members but me wished to complain. SO, hey. I am just one man, if people like the way things are, fine. I went to bed, and was going to let this issue die, but when I woke up I found THIS in my in box:
Quote from PM »
Dear SoronTheBeast,
You have received an infraction at MTG Salvation Forums.
Reason: Flaming or Other Forms of Misbehavior
-------
The rulings forum is not your personal sandbox to spam up trying to prove some idiotic point. If you want to post an interesting question quiz style, do so. Do not follow up every few posts with "hey the card tags haven't helped you!"
-------
This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.
I saw one or two threads here that seem to be posted just to see if people can answer the questions, not because they expect it to come up in a game. I have one such question:
I have often asked questions on the rules forum I already know the answer to. I do that to confirm my knowledge or to prove to someone else I know what I am talking about. Is this against the rules, because I do not see it any where. But yet I get a INFRACTION! (which, by the way, DO matter)
I clearly stated at the start of the thread that I was trying to confuse people, and did not say something stupid like "See how those card tags help you now LOLOLO!" When some one ELSE said the card tags were not helping. Someone else said, "That's what I get for just looking at the auto tags" so I said "Seems like a bad idea" and made that statement a link to the other thread.
I would be more than happy to show you, but it seems someone has deleted that thread. Very fair.
I know I have been acting disgruntled as of late, and maybe I am beginning to become a big enough nuisance that its time for me to get banned for the good of the site or something. In which cause I guess you could just give me an infraction for this thread I made before I went to bed and received my infraction. I fully admit I made it for the same reasons I made the above thread, and it seems those reasons are worth an infraction.
In the interest of fair discussion, something Woapalanne seems to care much about since he deleted my thread, I will include this other PM he sent me:
I realized one second too late that I shouldn't have called your complaint "idiotic," no matter how ill-founded it is. I apologize for that.
The fact remains that you do not have the right to troll in the rulings forum because you disagree with the rules; keep your complaints in Speak Your Mind.
It goes without saying that I still have my INFRACTION.......
I would like to think what the other forum members think. Again, I could be all alone in this.
You do indeed have an infraction - you have an infraction for trolling the rulings forum as a method of complaining about your stance on card tags. If you hadn't seen fit to respond after every few replies "Your card tags aren't helping you!" "You shouldn't use card tags, see!" then it wouldn't have been an issue.
Note that in your other thread, you didn't run around screaming about how card tags were the work of the Devil and would devour all of us in our beds. You asked a strange question, but you didn't start preaching about the demons in the card tags while wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell. See the difference? In one, you quietly let your "point" be made (although you actually defeated your "point" since no one knows what that card is, so no one could answer without card tags), so as annoying as it is, you didn't cross the line into trolling.
The other "stupid question" you linked also did not feature the original poster running around the thread screaming about how horrible and useless card tags are.
In the future, keep your complaints about the rules to either a) PM, b) mod helpdesk, or c) Speak Your Mind.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
"Your card tags aren't helping you!" "You shouldn't use card tags, see!" then it wouldn't have been an issue.
You see, if I had said EITHER of those two "quotes." I would be include to agree with you, and would not have post this. But since All I said was:
"Seems like a good idea." (in response to someone else saying that they should not just look at the card tags)
and
"No one has answer this question 100% right
Card tags or no"
Since that's all I said, I am inclined to disagree. I would be able to PROVE that is all I said, but you seemed fit to delete my post, and NOW are making things up.
Second:
You decided to start/pick a fight by being a fool. Its one point to make a point and prove it. Its another if you go OUT of your way to cause a problem Just to prove a point. It doesnt work. In fact all you do is piss people off more so.
You Spoke your mind yesterday on this... And instead of keep speaking it you did that which got you an infraction. If your not ready and willing to accept the infraction DONT go out of your way to cause a problem just to prove "your" point.
I'll be honest Soron, I saw the thread and the point you were trying to make was completely mooted in my view. I have my card tags set to gatherer, so I saw the Oracle rulings for each card... And there were a BUNCH of cards in there that I didn't remember exactly what they did.
I didn't reply to the thread, but I did read it and without the card tags, I wouldn't have even bothered trying to figure it out in my head. You invalidated your own point with that post.
As far as the infraction is concerned, you can't expect to antagonize the staff and get away with it when doing it in such a flamboyant manner. Even the one liner post linking to another thread could warrant a spam warning, since it doesn't contribute to the ruling you are looking for. That's if you want to get technical... I mean, he basically overlooked a warning for you already.
Just live with it dude... Ultimately, the rules here are the rules, and it's unlikely that many of them will be changed as it's a formula that has lead to MTGS being one of (if not the) biggest Magic community website on the internet.
Look, this thread is not about card tags, if it was I would have put these posts in the other thread. Clearly most people think its a good rule, and if most people that go to the rules forum think its a good rule, then I too think so.
This is about my infraction.
Do either of you, CrAzEd MiKe or Sapphire Tri, see anything in the OP that would warrant an infraction? What is the difference between my question and the question I have linked there? Why should I receive an infraction?
I did not say the things Woapalanne said I did. I said the things I said I did. Do those things warrant and infraction? In your opinion? And should Woapalanne be allowed to twist my words after he deleted the post?
I may be mistaken... but aren't infractions supposed to be argued/appealed on the Mod Helpdesk of the moderator that issued the infraction?
I agree that the infraction seems like too much for what you said, but I understand why they needed to take action. I think a situation like this (that goes a bit deeper than simple warnings and infractions) should have been handled in private through PMs or such.
And, as I said, the same should hold true for appealing an infraction. That should not be handled quite so publicly. It makes it look like you're trying to make the moderator/s look bad. -Jack
I would like other mod's and users to look at this.
I am trying to get some impartial options. I know I my self get a little crazy and upset some times(and this could very well be one of those times). I am trying to get more than just the two people involved. I think its good in such matters to find a 3rd party.
I am, at the moment, inclined to react strongly to ANYTHING Woapalanne says at this point and would like to hear what other people have to say.
I would like it if this thread where NOT moved, please.
I already explained it, but you seem to not want to read. You trolled up the thread you were infracted for, so I issued one infraction for the whole thing rather than issuing you several. The original question was fine; trolling after it was not.
But since All I said was:
"Seems like a good idea." (in response to someone else saying that they should not just look at the card tags)
And should Woapalanne be allowed to twist my words after he deleted the post?
I'm obviously exaggerating, as it's impossible to wear a sandwich board on the forums. But you just twisted the other poster's words, too - he was referring to using magiccards.info, not card tags, and you pounced on it screaming "LOOK AT THIS THREAD CARD TAGS ARE BAAAAAD." (Paraphrasing again, for those who can't stand anything but absolute literalism.)
Staff policy is, in fact, to delete flaming, trolling, and spam where they don't serve any purpose by remaining where they are.
"No one has answer this question 100% right Card tags or no"
Why did you have to include a whine about card tags? Simply saying "no one's got it right yet" would be find. But no, you had to turn it into part of your bizarre crusade.
I may be mistaken... but aren't infractions supposed to be argued/appealed on the Mod Helpdesk of the moderator that issued the infraction?
Indeed. "Let the site weigh in! the evil evil mod infracted poor, innocent me." is not acceptable; if you disagree with a warning or infraction, you talk to an admin. Posting threads like this is just for intarweb drama.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
he was referring to using magiccards.info, not card tags, and you pounced on it screaming "LOOK AT THIS THREAD CARD TAGS ARE BAAAAAD." (Paraphrasing again, for those who can't stand anything but absolute literalism.)
He said "the auto cards." Which, one can assume mean the links he has when he clicked on the tags. Its not like I changed the links to magiccards.com or something. I used the tags.
Also, even in a "paraphrase" I would not call what I said "screaming" or "pouncing." I would have had to use caps for that, or something.
Indeed. "Let the site weigh in! the evil evil mod infracted poor, innocent me." is not acceptable; if you disagree with a warning or infraction, you talk to an admin. Posting threads like this is just for intarweb drama.
Are you trying to get me to flame you?
Every post/quote you made here seems to just be mocking me.
You seem to be under the impression that card tags always point to magiccards.info. This is not the case.
The site to which a user is taken when they click on a card-tag link is configurable in the "Edit Options" screen of the User Control Panel. The default is magiccards.info, however this can be changed to point to Gatherer.
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Sorry to jump in for a bit, but Woapalanne is raising a good point--if you have an issue with your infraction, bring it up with the mod. Don't drag all of us along for the ride. If the mod sees an issue that needs to be brought up with the other mods, then s/he'll do so.
Until then, why are you complaining so much? It's just an infraction. When I got mine I limited my activity and was more careful what I said and did. Then it expired and here I am.
You seem to be under the impression that card tags always point to magiccards.info. This is not the case.
Yes. You said that on other thread, and I took your advice, and changed my own.
I am talking about the things that Woapalanne is changing to prove his point. He is mocking me in every post, trying to belittle what I am saying, but on top of that, he is changing the facts to help prove his point. He is claiming that Sutherlands was talking about "magiccards.info" when he used the term "auto cards." Also Sutherlands was doing most of the complaining on that thread. I was just agreeing with what he was saying.
Sorry to jump in for a bit, but Woapalanne is raising a good point--if you have an issue with your infraction, bring it up with the mod.
Despite what people might think I value other people's opinions. I want to know what OTHER people think. So far I have gotten a lot of "Quit your whining." So, I am beginning to believe that I am just making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I am still upset about the mocking and the twisting, and I do wish that someone could find the real thread, so it could be looked at. But if everyone here says I am just being crazy, then by definition, I am.
I am talking about the things that Woapalanne is changing to prove his point. He is mocking me in every post, trying to belittle what I am saying, but on top of that, he is changing the facts to help prove his point.
If you have an issue with Woapalanne, then as far as I'm concerned that's between you and him, and potentially the admins if they want to get involved. It's not my position to question the judgment of another mod (which I'm not interested in doing) or overturn another mod's infractions (which I don't have the necessary access to the software to do).
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No. Your incorrect. I posted my question to show how the cards tags are not as useful as people say, but I did NOT expect to get a warning for it, let ALONE an infraction. You have read what I wrote... what do YOU think, based on that info?
Look, I care that I GOT an infraction. But why should I care if it stays on my slip or not? I assure you its not my first. I do not care about 'keeping my record clean' or something.
It will laps in time. I do not care about getting it removed. Why should I? It will automatically in a few months. I do care about WHY I got it.
BUT, I should have said "I do not care about removing the point I received. I just want to know if I was/am being treated fairly or not."
Are you trying to get me to flame you?
Every post/quote you made here seems to just be mocking me.
No, I'm trying to get it through your head that you're not helping yourself here, and you're making yourself look very silly in front of everyone else - they see you making senseless drama instead of following proper channels for a disagreement, and blowing a simple rule out of proportion into some doom-and-gloom end-of-the-world newbie-hating conspiracy.
So of course I'm belittling what you're saying; it makes no sense. You somehow equate "magiccards.info has some bad information" with "using card tags is a bad thing" and "no one should use card tags," and then you post a thread for no purpose other than to point out that there is some bad information - but instead of doing this in any helpful way, you think you're justified in turning it into part of your strange crusade against card tags and offended several users. And then you think you have a right to post a thread asking users whether they agree with your infraction when you've been around here long enough to know that it is not acceptable, and you try to say that other questioners are equally guilty for posting similar threads but without unhelpfully attacking the rules and users. I honestly cannot fathom how you figured this was a good idea at all, much less a good way to raise support for your cause.
In short: You're making a lot of drama over a user who was suspended for failing to follow a rule FIVE TIMES, and it seems like your only intent is to make all this drama for drama's sake. Just knock it off already while some users still remember you for your good posts and not for being a dramamonger.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
There seems to be some kind of mix up. Let me reiterate, this thread is not about card tags. Its not about newbie-hating. Its about whether or not I deserved an infraction for my thread.
There seems to be some kind of mix up. Let me reiterate, this thread is not about card tags. Its not about newbie-hating. Its about wether or not I deceived an infraction for my thread.
In that guess.... You did. Your post was setup. Your causing drama for the sake of someone that refused to obey a simple rule that helps others and themselves.
you think you're justified in turning it into part of your strange crusade against card tags and offended several users.
You keep claiming I did things I did not.
Look, all I want is another mod to just look at what I said:
"Seems like a good idea." (in response to someone else saying that they should not just look at the card tags)
and
"No one has answer this question 100% right
Card tags or no"
and tell me that it was infraction worthy. If they say "Yes, and quit your whining." I will, and you can lock or delete this thread. (please don't do it just to shut me up, just look at what I said, think and then tell me)
I am really just looking for an outside option on this whole thing. So far CrAzEd MiKe is the only mod to have commented on what I said. He said it was worth a warning. If he, or another mod, just tells me "or an infraction," it will be all I am looking for.
So, far all of the mod(or xmods) here seem to just be claiming this was some kind of elaborate plot made by me rally n00bs and ruin x-mass or something, but are not addressing the issue at hand. If you want to talk about the card tags or something, go to the other thread.
He is trolling all of you. I don't want to backseat mod, but my opinion is: delete this thread and perhaps provide another infraction. Woaplane accurately called his motivation here. Speak Your Mind does not translate well as "Whine."
This crusade you are on for whatever reason is a little bit silly: card tags are always helpful if they link to Gatherer, and are sufficiently correctly worded for 99%+ of all rule questions. The fact that they make things worse 1 time in 1000 is worth keeping them around.
That isn't the issue here, though.
The post you linked to was mostly pointless, but it is always nice to look at complicated rule questions to see how well you know the rules. The thread you created (that you linked to, not the one you quoted), was mostly to prove a point, but you stayed on topic. Thus it was perfectly acceptable.
The thread that was deleted, however, wasn't horrible because of the question, but because of your trolling remarks made afterwards. Simply agreeing with another user is spam, which also isn't infraction-worthy. The fact that you were trying to illicit off-topic remarks about how horrible the card tags are inside of rulings is textbook trolling.
"Seems like a good idea." - Under normal circumstances, this would be merely borderline spam. However, this proves your intent to either get more posts in the original thread or hijack the current thread with something off-topic. If someone were to try to hijack a thread in the Standard forums so that the conversation was about a Vintage deck, I would expect that person's posts to be deleted and that user to get a warning or infraction (depending on the specific post made).
"No one has answer this question 100% right Card tags or no" - Again, it sounds as if you are trying to make the conversation about something other than the rule question at hand. This becomes trolling because of the implied "card tags are worthless, that rule is stupid". The implication there is inflammatory by itself. That you also manage to imply that the people posting on the thread lack the intelligence to solve your rule question puts it over the line between warning and infraction, in my opinion.
The ruling forum has the strictest rules on the site for good reason. It is always going to be less tolerant of off topic remarks, as it should be. Rulings is never the forum you use to make a point, which is what you tried to do.
Were you treated fairly when you got your infraction? I believe so. Is Woapalanne twisting your words? Not really, as he is exaggerating rather than actually changing your meaning. If he was trying to imply he was exactly quoting you, he would have used quote tags.
I do think that Woapalanne is being more visibly annoyed than a mod should be, although I don't blame him in the slightest. I don't think the posts were specifically made as an excuse to make this thread, but you shouldn't be surprised they got you an infraction. You are raising more drama than you should, and appear to be showing the early signs of pointless martyrdom (asking for more infractions or saying they should ban you are decidedly bad ideas). If you have an issue with an individual, settle it via PM. If that person is a mod and you want the complaint made public, discuss it on their helpdesk. If you want to cause fruitless drama, post it in SYM.
You've proven yourself to be an intelligent person, and your VS. threads are usually top-notch. Unlike 90% of the users, you actually contribute something with most of your posts. It would be a shame if you got yourself banned for a silly reason like getting all worked up over the card tag rule. Don't antagonize mods, even if you think they're wrong. Other current mods aren't going to step on each other's toes, so I wouldn't be surprised if none comment (even if they agree). You were obviously trolling the rulings forum, and you got infracted. You might have been able to argue it down to a warning if you had taken proper channels, but it's too late for that, I would think.
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Now I am REALLY upset!
Did this guy get a INFRACTION for asking HIS stupid question:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2733486#post2733486
<- clearly HE was just trying to confuse people.
I have often asked questions on the rules forum I already know the answer to. I do that to confirm my knowledge or to prove to someone else I know what I am talking about. Is this against the rules, because I do not see it any where. But yet I get a INFRACTION! (which, by the way, DO matter)
I clearly stated at the start of the thread that I was trying to confuse people, and did not say something stupid like "See how those card tags help you now LOLOLO!" When some one ELSE said the card tags were not helping. Someone else said, "That's what I get for just looking at the auto tags" so I said "Seems like a bad idea" and made that statement a link to the other thread.
I would be more than happy to show you, but it seems someone has deleted that thread. Very fair.
I know I have been acting disgruntled as of late, and maybe I am beginning to become a big enough nuisance that its time for me to get banned for the good of the site or something. In which cause I guess you could just give me an infraction for this thread I made before I went to bed and received my infraction. I fully admit I made it for the same reasons I made the above thread, and it seems those reasons are worth an infraction.
In the interest of fair discussion, something Woapalanne seems to care much about since he deleted my thread, I will include this other PM he sent me:
The fact remains that you do not have the right to troll in the rulings forum because you disagree with the rules; keep your complaints in Speak Your Mind.
I would like to think what the other forum members think. Again, I could be all alone in this.
Note that in your other thread, you didn't run around screaming about how card tags were the work of the Devil and would devour all of us in our beds. You asked a strange question, but you didn't start preaching about the demons in the card tags while wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell. See the difference? In one, you quietly let your "point" be made (although you actually defeated your "point" since no one knows what that card is, so no one could answer without card tags), so as annoying as it is, you didn't cross the line into trolling.
The other "stupid question" you linked also did not feature the original poster running around the thread screaming about how horrible and useless card tags are.
In the future, keep your complaints about the rules to either a) PM, b) mod helpdesk, or c) Speak Your Mind.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
You see, if I had said EITHER of those two "quotes." I would be include to agree with you, and would not have post this. But since All I said was:
"Seems like a good idea." (in response to someone else saying that they should not just look at the card tags)
and
"No one has answer this question 100% right
Card tags or no"
Since that's all I said, I am inclined to disagree. I would be able to PROVE that is all I said, but you seemed fit to delete my post, and NOW are making things up.
Second:
You decided to start/pick a fight by being a fool. Its one point to make a point and prove it. Its another if you go OUT of your way to cause a problem Just to prove a point. It doesnt work. In fact all you do is piss people off more so.
You Spoke your mind yesterday on this... And instead of keep speaking it you did that which got you an infraction. If your not ready and willing to accept the infraction DONT go out of your way to cause a problem just to prove "your" point.
I didn't reply to the thread, but I did read it and without the card tags, I wouldn't have even bothered trying to figure it out in my head. You invalidated your own point with that post.
As far as the infraction is concerned, you can't expect to antagonize the staff and get away with it when doing it in such a flamboyant manner. Even the one liner post linking to another thread could warrant a spam warning, since it doesn't contribute to the ruling you are looking for. That's if you want to get technical... I mean, he basically overlooked a warning for you already.
Just live with it dude... Ultimately, the rules here are the rules, and it's unlikely that many of them will be changed as it's a formula that has lead to MTGS being one of (if not the) biggest Magic community website on the internet.
This is about my infraction.
Do either of you, CrAzEd MiKe or Sapphire Tri, see anything in the OP that would warrant an infraction? What is the difference between my question and the question I have linked there? Why should I receive an infraction?
I did not say the things Woapalanne said I did. I said the things I said I did. Do those things warrant and infraction? In your opinion? And should Woapalanne be allowed to twist my words after he deleted the post?
I agree that the infraction seems like too much for what you said, but I understand why they needed to take action. I think a situation like this (that goes a bit deeper than simple warnings and infractions) should have been handled in private through PMs or such.
And, as I said, the same should hold true for appealing an infraction. That should not be handled quite so publicly. It makes it look like you're trying to make the moderator/s look bad. -Jack
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I am trying to get some impartial options. I know I my self get a little crazy and upset some times(and this could very well be one of those times). I am trying to get more than just the two people involved. I think its good in such matters to find a 3rd party.
I am, at the moment, inclined to react strongly to ANYTHING Woapalanne says at this point and would like to hear what other people have to say.
I would like it if this thread where NOT moved, please.
Than maybe you could tell me the difference between my OP and this one:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2733486#post2733486
Both questions seem equally "idiotic" to me. I would not have even made my post if I had not seen threads like that.
I already explained it, but you seem to not want to read. You trolled up the thread you were infracted for, so I issued one infraction for the whole thing rather than issuing you several. The original question was fine; trolling after it was not.
I'm obviously exaggerating, as it's impossible to wear a sandwich board on the forums. But you just twisted the other poster's words, too - he was referring to using magiccards.info, not card tags, and you pounced on it screaming "LOOK AT THIS THREAD CARD TAGS ARE BAAAAAD." (Paraphrasing again, for those who can't stand anything but absolute literalism.)
Staff policy is, in fact, to delete flaming, trolling, and spam where they don't serve any purpose by remaining where they are.
Why did you have to include a whine about card tags? Simply saying "no one's got it right yet" would be find. But no, you had to turn it into part of your bizarre crusade.
Indeed. "Let the site weigh in! the evil evil mod infracted poor, innocent me." is not acceptable; if you disagree with a warning or infraction, you talk to an admin. Posting threads like this is just for intarweb drama.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Also, even in a "paraphrase" I would not call what I said "screaming" or "pouncing." I would have had to use caps for that, or something.
Are you trying to get me to flame you?
Every post/quote you made here seems to just be mocking me.
The site to which a user is taken when they click on a card-tag link is configurable in the "Edit Options" screen of the User Control Panel. The default is magiccards.info, however this can be changed to point to Gatherer.
Until then, why are you complaining so much? It's just an infraction. When I got mine I limited my activity and was more careful what I said and did. Then it expired and here I am.
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Yes. You said that on other thread, and I took your advice, and changed my own.
I am talking about the things that Woapalanne is changing to prove his point. He is mocking me in every post, trying to belittle what I am saying, but on top of that, he is changing the facts to help prove his point. He is claiming that Sutherlands was talking about "magiccards.info" when he used the term "auto cards." Also Sutherlands was doing most of the complaining on that thread. I was just agreeing with what he was saying.
Despite what people might think I value other people's opinions. I want to know what OTHER people think. So far I have gotten a lot of "Quit your whining." So, I am beginning to believe that I am just making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I am still upset about the mocking and the twisting, and I do wish that someone could find the real thread, so it could be looked at. But if everyone here says I am just being crazy, then by definition, I am.
If you have an issue with Woapalanne, then as far as I'm concerned that's between you and him, and potentially the admins if they want to get involved. It's not my position to question the judgment of another mod (which I'm not interested in doing) or overturn another mod's infractions (which I don't have the necessary access to the software to do).
Thats a lie..........
You purposely set up the posts to get nailed for them...
Then proceded to complain about it here instead on the mod desk..
Then Post in your sig to even further push the irony...
This is the cancer that kills SYM.
Look, I care that I GOT an infraction. But why should I care if it stays on my slip or not? I assure you its not my first. I do not care about 'keeping my record clean' or something.
It will laps in time. I do not care about getting it removed. Why should I? It will automatically in a few months. I do care about WHY I got it.
BUT, I should have said "I do not care about removing the point I received. I just want to know if I was/am being treated fairly or not."
No, I'm trying to get it through your head that you're not helping yourself here, and you're making yourself look very silly in front of everyone else - they see you making senseless drama instead of following proper channels for a disagreement, and blowing a simple rule out of proportion into some doom-and-gloom end-of-the-world newbie-hating conspiracy.
So of course I'm belittling what you're saying; it makes no sense. You somehow equate "magiccards.info has some bad information" with "using card tags is a bad thing" and "no one should use card tags," and then you post a thread for no purpose other than to point out that there is some bad information - but instead of doing this in any helpful way, you think you're justified in turning it into part of your strange crusade against card tags and offended several users. And then you think you have a right to post a thread asking users whether they agree with your infraction when you've been around here long enough to know that it is not acceptable, and you try to say that other questioners are equally guilty for posting similar threads but without unhelpfully attacking the rules and users. I honestly cannot fathom how you figured this was a good idea at all, much less a good way to raise support for your cause.
In short: You're making a lot of drama over a user who was suspended for failing to follow a rule FIVE TIMES, and it seems like your only intent is to make all this drama for drama's sake. Just knock it off already while some users still remember you for your good posts and not for being a dramamonger.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I don't see why you're upset about them.
But yes, outside of that, I think you might be overreacting. For what it's worth.
In that guess.... You did. Your post was setup. Your causing drama for the sake of someone that refused to obey a simple rule that helps others and themselves.
Look, all I want is another mod to just look at what I said:
"Seems like a good idea." (in response to someone else saying that they should not just look at the card tags)
and
"No one has answer this question 100% right
Card tags or no"
and tell me that it was infraction worthy. If they say "Yes, and quit your whining." I will, and you can lock or delete this thread.
(please don't do it just to shut me up, just look at what I said, think and then tell me)
I am really just looking for an outside option on this whole thing. So far CrAzEd MiKe is the only mod to have commented on what I said. He said it was worth a warning. If he, or another mod, just tells me "or an infraction," it will be all I am looking for.
So, far all of the mod(or xmods) here seem to just be claiming this was some kind of elaborate plot made by me rally n00bs and ruin x-mass or something, but are not addressing the issue at hand. If you want to talk about the card tags or something, go to the other thread.
That isn't the issue here, though.
The post you linked to was mostly pointless, but it is always nice to look at complicated rule questions to see how well you know the rules. The thread you created (that you linked to, not the one you quoted), was mostly to prove a point, but you stayed on topic. Thus it was perfectly acceptable.
The thread that was deleted, however, wasn't horrible because of the question, but because of your trolling remarks made afterwards. Simply agreeing with another user is spam, which also isn't infraction-worthy. The fact that you were trying to illicit off-topic remarks about how horrible the card tags are inside of rulings is textbook trolling.
"Seems like a good idea." - Under normal circumstances, this would be merely borderline spam. However, this proves your intent to either get more posts in the original thread or hijack the current thread with something off-topic. If someone were to try to hijack a thread in the Standard forums so that the conversation was about a Vintage deck, I would expect that person's posts to be deleted and that user to get a warning or infraction (depending on the specific post made).
"No one has answer this question 100% right Card tags or no" - Again, it sounds as if you are trying to make the conversation about something other than the rule question at hand. This becomes trolling because of the implied "card tags are worthless, that rule is stupid". The implication there is inflammatory by itself. That you also manage to imply that the people posting on the thread lack the intelligence to solve your rule question puts it over the line between warning and infraction, in my opinion.
The ruling forum has the strictest rules on the site for good reason. It is always going to be less tolerant of off topic remarks, as it should be. Rulings is never the forum you use to make a point, which is what you tried to do.
Were you treated fairly when you got your infraction? I believe so. Is Woapalanne twisting your words? Not really, as he is exaggerating rather than actually changing your meaning. If he was trying to imply he was exactly quoting you, he would have used quote tags.
I do think that Woapalanne is being more visibly annoyed than a mod should be, although I don't blame him in the slightest. I don't think the posts were specifically made as an excuse to make this thread, but you shouldn't be surprised they got you an infraction. You are raising more drama than you should, and appear to be showing the early signs of pointless martyrdom (asking for more infractions or saying they should ban you are decidedly bad ideas). If you have an issue with an individual, settle it via PM. If that person is a mod and you want the complaint made public, discuss it on their helpdesk. If you want to cause fruitless drama, post it in SYM.
You've proven yourself to be an intelligent person, and your VS. threads are usually top-notch. Unlike 90% of the users, you actually contribute something with most of your posts. It would be a shame if you got yourself banned for a silly reason like getting all worked up over the card tag rule. Don't antagonize mods, even if you think they're wrong. Other current mods aren't going to step on each other's toes, so I wouldn't be surprised if none comment (even if they agree). You were obviously trolling the rulings forum, and you got infracted. You might have been able to argue it down to a warning if you had taken proper channels, but it's too late for that, I would think.