I'm not calling the site a cult in the religious sense. The phrase "cult of personality" has a specific meaning that I believe applies here.
A bunch of n00bs who keep posting that a card is awesome and thank R_E for it a cult does not make. A cult personality would be someone who, say..... went to other people's sites to complain about how the other site is a cult whenever anything happens there because of their zealous devotion to their own outdated forum that isn't getting the headlines.
Removing all traces of the opposing viewpoint reeks of a one-sided community that doesn't tolerate any dissension to their views.
I don't know about the rest, but my eventual aim is totalitarian dictatorship.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
A cult personality would be someone who, say..... went to other people's sites to complain about how the other site is a cult whenever anything happens there because of their zealous devotion to their own outdated forum that isn't getting the headlines.
If by "isn't getting the headlines" you mean "the moderators are not being sued", you would be correct.
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Worzel resisted the temptation to invest herself in blue magic, in case the rumor that Thomil had taken to raising serpents had any truth. Now she began to regret the loss of the Glasses of Urza, which might have given her some clue where the focus of his attack would be.
A bunch of n00bs who keep posting that a card is awesome and thank R_E for it a cult does not make. A cult personality would be someone who, say..... went to other people's sites to complain about how the other site is a cult whenever anything happens there because of their zealous devotion to their own outdated forum that isn't getting the headlines.
Well, I guess both sites are making the headlines in their own ways...
A forum which is significantly easier to parody with some degree of recognizability.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I was talking to a friend of mine about this (she's a third year law student) and she said that by failing to do/say anything all the time the leaks have been happening, they have basically given R_E, and anyone else who wants, the okay to post leaks.
So, basically, as long as R_E did nothing illegal/received anything illegal, he's in the clear.
Way Off-Topic: (Does anyone else see a face in R_E, or am I just crazy...er, crazier?)
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Quote from Scott Adams »
Nothing defines humans better than their willingness to do irrational things in the pursuit of phenomenally unlikely payoffs.
This is the principle behind lotteries, dating, and religion
Quote from *sigh...* *dreamy smile* »
She's a two-faced ****rag ***** bucket with NO grasp on reality or objectivity let alone sincerity or humanity!!! She FEEDS on drama, all day every day, like a ****ing prostitute feeds on STDs--- in much the same way, mind you...
This next part is directed at those of you who say you are going to stop buying magic and all wizards products.... yeah right. Outside of finding out that the ink on the cards is made out of the blood of children worked to death in the Wizard sweat shops, I seriously doubt that any of you are going to stop playing over this. People swore to stop playing on forums many a time over the years for numerous reasons and I bet they are still playing.
Well I am not getting any boxes of Guildpact...I got 4 boxes of Ravnica, I enjoyed it very much but I am not enjoying Guildpact nearly as much.
Instead, I'll splurge on the original dual lands and a piece of power 9 come mid-February and get a few singles from Guildpact. I enjoy the lower power level of the set but there just doesn't seem like much that appeals to the multiplayer in me
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
\although i have not had the time to read all the stuff that members have been posting it seems to me that the one thing that Wizards have not done b4 taking this action is the most OBVIOUS thing,, namely to take the trouble to find out which of their employees leaked the information in the first place,, put your own back yard in order first Wizards b4 poking an unwanted nose into other peoples.
i think you'll find that's what they're trying to do now
this doent make much sense, they re sueing because they cant keep a secret. the only way we know this stuff is because wizards leaked it.
I study law and I understand WOTC's action. I would have done the same thing. I don't if what R_E did was legal or not, because I don't know the lawsuit details, but it looks to me like an ilegal property use. The magazine that published the card WHERE autorized by WOTC, R_E wasn't.
As both a long-time magic player and someone who works in the law, I've been following the events concerning WoTCs suit with a great deal of interest. Alhough I have by no means read every post on this and other message boards on this topic, I've read quite a few and there are numerous misguided, although I suspect well-intentioned, views on the law expressed in many posts. My area of expertise is not IP law, nor have I read the WoTC complaint, so I don't know the specific causes of action on which they are proceeding. However, based upon the little public information that I have seen, this case seems to bears a close parallel to a suit brought in 2004 by Apple against certain internet bloggers who released "spoiler" information about an unreleased product. In that case, the California Superior Court ordered the bloggers to identify their sources in response to Apple's discovery subpoenas because the bloggers were found to be disseminating trade secrets--for which the journalists privilege does not apply. Many people may be aware of that case, but for those who are not, it produced a similar response from the online Apple fan community (threatening boycots, etc.) as well as from both the online and paper journalist community (First Amendment concerns).
In that case, the California Superior Court ordered the bloggers to identify their sources in response to Apple's discovery subpoenas because the bloggers were found to be disseminating trade secrets--for which the journalists privilege does not apply.
Since this is not a trade secret and Wizards has no mtg competitor, I wonder just how the court would (if it ever got that far) view this information. I'm hoping everything turns out good for our humble website and for R_E though I'm very curious about this case and copyright law as I have been reading up on copyright protection lately by coincidence.
U sir are an idiot. If they sold it to the store and the store cant sell it then the store are unlikely to get more booster box and this mean Hasbro will lose business. Either way they can also refund the booster box.
As some who has actualy dealt with wizards as one of thier permier stores(that means you deal directly with WoC) I can tell you that a boycott would have very little effect on them. In order to deal with wizards directly you have to go through tons of paperwork. including credit checks and actualy providing photos of your shop inside and out. They will also turn you down if you dont show them that thier product will be presented better than any other product you carry. They make it very hard to deal direct. Most places you buy magic from get it through a distributor. meaning that someone buys thousands of boxes of product then resell it to your local games shop, and they NEVER take back shippments (Until just recently I still had a box of homelands, trust me on that). What they are doing is dumb, but then corp. types are best known for pass the buck than actually doing anything. This whole thing is just the company trying to clean house, and RE if the fall guy. someone probably wanted to get back at a WoC boss, so they sent those pics, RE just got caught in the middle. To close this I just want to say to RE, Good luck we are prying for ya son.
Since this is not a trade secret and Wizards has no mtg competitor, I wonder just how the court would (if it ever got that far) view this information.
Actually it's entirely possible that the spoiler information posted on MTGS would be viewed as a trade secret. Although the precise definition of what constitutes a trade secret will depend on the relevant statute in the applicable jurisdiction, generally speaking, any sort of non-public information that a company has taken reasonable efforts to keep secret (e.g. through the use of NDAs), and the secrecy of which confers some economic benefit, could be a trade secret. Interestingly, the way that trade secrets law works, as I understand it, liability for violations would primarily fall on the initial public disseminator, because after the initial dissemination the information has become public and it is no longer a trade secret.
As for copyright infringement, again I am no expert, but as I understand it, spoilers have generally been viewed by courts as a "fair use" of copyrighted material insofar as they are not trying to usurp the intended use of the original work (i.e. the cards spoiled on MTGS are not intended to be used as actual Magic cards that you would play the game with).
Actually it's entirely possible that the spoiler information posted on MTGS would be viewed as a trade secret. Although the precise definition of what constitutes a trade secret will depend on the relevant statute in the applicable jurisdiction, generally speaking, any sort of non-public information that a company has taken reasonable efforts to keep secret (e.g. through the use of NDAs), and the secrecy of which confers some economic benefit, could be a trade secret. Interestingly, the way that trade secrets law works, as I understand it, liability for violations would primarily fall on the initial public disseminator, because after the initial dissemination the information has become public and it is no longer a trade secret.
As for copyright infringement, again I am no expert, but as I understand it, spoilers have generally been viewed by courts as a "fair use" of copyrighted material insofar as they are not trying to usurp the intended use of the original work (i.e. the cards spoiled on MTGS are not intended to be used as actual Magic cards that you would play the game with).
This would fall in line with my thinking on this issue, as I understand it. The assumption that R_E might very well be innocent of any violation seems to be holding up (with the limited information we have on the case), and that through this "threat" Hasbro hope R_E would hold no loyalty towards sources and avoid a hassle.
Furthermore, they figure someone like R_E would rather not retain a lawyer (a rather expensive necessity) and just spill the beans.
Those with piles of money will get what they want and will use fear and the lack of opposing resources to coerce. Sounds like a predictable result to me.
The only thing that matters to me is that R_E and Salvation can get out ot this unscathed, and I'm confident this will occur.
This site is the only thing keeping me interested in Mtg, as most of my fellow players around here have quit. It's small, but I still buy 2 boxes of every set religiously and would consider quitting altogether from B.S. like this.
I could sell off all my standard and extended stuff a stick with a handfull of classic decks without ever spending another penny on the primary market and remain perfectly happy.
Wizards _is_ suing RE for the posting of information related to Guildpact.
Wizards is also suing RE based on the posting of three play test cards related to SNAP and the November 15, 2005 posting of the "planned trade name for the SNAP expansion set."
The suit alleges 5 counts - 1. Misappropriation of trade secrets under R.C.W. 19.108 based on the posting of "the name of an upcoming expansion set of cards, play test cards, and information from the unreleased Guildpact expansion card set on the MTG Salvation website without Wizards' consent." 2. Copyright infringement based upon the release of copyrighted information without a license. 3. Contributory infringement. 4. Breach of contract (against the doe defendants). 5. Unjust enrichment.
Wizards asks for 1. a permanent injunction preventing RE and the other defendants from releasing Wizards trade secrets and confidential information; 2. an accounting of all profits and damages; 3. an award of attorneys' fees and costs under sect. 505 of the Copyright Act; 4. an award of attorneys' fees and costs under the Uniform Trade Secrets Act, R.C.W. 19.108.040; 5. an award of compensatory damages; and 6. any other relief deemed appropriate by the court.
For anyone interested, the case number is CV6 0095 and it was filed in the Western district of Washington, Seattle branch.
Thanks for the info KA, your footwork (er keyboard work) is much appreciated.
Now if only I could cram several law courses into a couple days I might be able to figure out how the court might rule on this. Certainly a daunting case it would seem.
Proving that R_E knew the info was trade secrets and privileged is important to the case. It all depends on what evidence they have (emails etc.). As I have stated in another post, I have always believed that Wizards leaks huge amounts on information to boost sales. Now they are trying to pretend that early information decreases sales? Complete garbage. They are trying to please the most players with new card designs and when a handful of people cry out that a set sucks (and they always do) the results are the same regardless. The cards are designed to keep the game fun for a majority of players and when they fall short of this goal, the company is the only thing that can be blamed, logically speaking. When laywers get involved logic can get pretty convoluted.
I don't know about the rest, but my eventual aim is totalitarian dictatorship.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
If by "isn't getting the headlines" you mean "the moderators are not being sued", you would be correct.
Well, I guess both sites are making the headlines in their own ways...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=company/pr/20060119a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr206
@quasius: I'm afraid that just flew over my head. A random MaRo article about his apparent insanity and a 6th color? What?
The article is a direct tribute to MiseTings.
Nevermind.
A forum which is significantly easier to parody with some degree of recognizability.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Declaration of Independence
Owner of Senori's Soul
Friend of RBS, FFFB, 499, Mythos, House Dimir, Rakdos, and Hyrule.
Dictator of
[thread=43661][/thread]
So, basically, as long as R_E did nothing illegal/received anything illegal, he's in the clear.
*Sets Flickering Ward to lawyers*
Rock on, R_E, Rock on.
Way Off-Topic: (Does anyone else see a face in R_E, or am I just crazy...er, crazier?)
Avatar courtesy of the wondermous Lord Tirian.
Well I am not getting any boxes of Guildpact...I got 4 boxes of Ravnica, I enjoyed it very much but I am not enjoying Guildpact nearly as much.
Instead, I'll splurge on the original dual lands and a piece of power 9 come mid-February and get a few singles from Guildpact. I enjoy the lower power level of the set but there just doesn't seem like much that appeals to the multiplayer in me
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
i think you'll find that's what they're trying to do now
I study law and I understand WOTC's action. I would have done the same thing. I don't if what R_E did was legal or not, because I don't know the lawsuit details, but it looks to me like an ilegal property use. The magazine that published the card WHERE autorized by WOTC, R_E wasn't.
Signature By Me.
FYI, "Angelus Vires" means "Angelic Might" in latin.
For the curious, a link to the Wiki entry on the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_v._Does.
Also, for the legally-minded, the link to the California Superior Court Order ordering the bloggers to identify their sources: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/apple/appledoe31105opn.pdf
As some who has actualy dealt with wizards as one of thier permier stores(that means you deal directly with WoC) I can tell you that a boycott would have very little effect on them. In order to deal with wizards directly you have to go through tons of paperwork. including credit checks and actualy providing photos of your shop inside and out. They will also turn you down if you dont show them that thier product will be presented better than any other product you carry. They make it very hard to deal direct. Most places you buy magic from get it through a distributor. meaning that someone buys thousands of boxes of product then resell it to your local games shop, and they NEVER take back shippments (Until just recently I still had a box of homelands, trust me on that). What they are doing is dumb, but then corp. types are best known for pass the buck than actually doing anything. This whole thing is just the company trying to clean house, and RE if the fall guy. someone probably wanted to get back at a WoC boss, so they sent those pics, RE just got caught in the middle. To close this I just want to say to RE, Good luck we are prying for ya son.
Actually it's entirely possible that the spoiler information posted on MTGS would be viewed as a trade secret. Although the precise definition of what constitutes a trade secret will depend on the relevant statute in the applicable jurisdiction, generally speaking, any sort of non-public information that a company has taken reasonable efforts to keep secret (e.g. through the use of NDAs), and the secrecy of which confers some economic benefit, could be a trade secret. Interestingly, the way that trade secrets law works, as I understand it, liability for violations would primarily fall on the initial public disseminator, because after the initial dissemination the information has become public and it is no longer a trade secret.
As for copyright infringement, again I am no expert, but as I understand it, spoilers have generally been viewed by courts as a "fair use" of copyrighted material insofar as they are not trying to usurp the intended use of the original work (i.e. the cards spoiled on MTGS are not intended to be used as actual Magic cards that you would play the game with).
This would fall in line with my thinking on this issue, as I understand it. The assumption that R_E might very well be innocent of any violation seems to be holding up (with the limited information we have on the case), and that through this "threat" Hasbro hope R_E would hold no loyalty towards sources and avoid a hassle.
Furthermore, they figure someone like R_E would rather not retain a lawyer (a rather expensive necessity) and just spill the beans.
Those with piles of money will get what they want and will use fear and the lack of opposing resources to coerce. Sounds like a predictable result to me.
The only thing that matters to me is that R_E and Salvation can get out ot this unscathed, and I'm confident this will occur.
This site is the only thing keeping me interested in Mtg, as most of my fellow players around here have quit. It's small, but I still buy 2 boxes of every set religiously and would consider quitting altogether from B.S. like this.
I could sell off all my standard and extended stuff a stick with a handfull of classic decks without ever spending another penny on the primary market and remain perfectly happy.
Wizards _is_ suing RE for the posting of information related to Guildpact.
Wizards is also suing RE based on the posting of three play test cards related to SNAP and the November 15, 2005 posting of the "planned trade name for the SNAP expansion set."
The suit alleges 5 counts - 1. Misappropriation of trade secrets under R.C.W. 19.108 based on the posting of "the name of an upcoming expansion set of cards, play test cards, and information from the unreleased Guildpact expansion card set on the MTG Salvation website without Wizards' consent." 2. Copyright infringement based upon the release of copyrighted information without a license. 3. Contributory infringement. 4. Breach of contract (against the doe defendants). 5. Unjust enrichment.
Wizards asks for 1. a permanent injunction preventing RE and the other defendants from releasing Wizards trade secrets and confidential information; 2. an accounting of all profits and damages; 3. an award of attorneys' fees and costs under sect. 505 of the Copyright Act; 4. an award of attorneys' fees and costs under the Uniform Trade Secrets Act, R.C.W. 19.108.040; 5. an award of compensatory damages; and 6. any other relief deemed appropriate by the court.
For anyone interested, the case number is CV6 0095 and it was filed in the Western district of Washington, Seattle branch.
Now if only I could cram several law courses into a couple days I might be able to figure out how the court might rule on this. Certainly a daunting case it would seem.
Proving that R_E knew the info was trade secrets and privileged is important to the case. It all depends on what evidence they have (emails etc.). As I have stated in another post, I have always believed that Wizards leaks huge amounts on information to boost sales. Now they are trying to pretend that early information decreases sales? Complete garbage. They are trying to please the most players with new card designs and when a handful of people cry out that a set sucks (and they always do) the results are the same regardless. The cards are designed to keep the game fun for a majority of players and when they fall short of this goal, the company is the only thing that can be blamed, logically speaking. When laywers get involved logic can get pretty convoluted.
Sig by the Great R&Doom!