Just wondering if anyone has had any success with Wish boards in EDH? I am considering adding Cunning Wish to my BUG control deck, but I am unsure if it would just be better to have something else. Thoughts?
I don't play wishes in EDH. I love a good wish, However it's a group by group choice to use them or not. So I just don't to avoid any problem when playing with different people.
Just wondering if anyone has had any success with Wish boards in EDH? I am considering adding Cunning Wish to my BUG control deck, but I am unsure if it would just be better to have something else. Thoughts?
Wishes have no effect unless optional sideboard rules are allowed which most groups don't. That said, if your group does allow sideboards then Cunning Wish is probably very strong.
Sideboards are a per-group decision, not a per-player decision. You can't just show up with a sideboard, a suite of Wishes and demand to be able to play with them. Well, I guess you can, but it's not supported by the rules.
I used to run Glittering Wish in my Rafiq deck. Wishes free up a bunch of space in the deck, which is nice, but I quickly realized that if the cards from my wishboard have been taken out of the mainboard, then they aren't necessary at all. So I ended up taking Glittering Wish out and never looked back.
Thoughts on my proposed Mimeoplasm wish board (still need to cut 1 card):
1. Capsize:gives me the ability to bounce still I wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise (Darksteel Forge), and is a late game win condition with Seedborn Muse.
2. Constant Mists: akin to Moment's Peace, but synergizes better with my deck (I run both Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds).
3. Diabolic Edict: mostly for the random Blightsteel Collosus + Lightning Greaves.
4. Evacuation: instant speed pseudo mass removal.
5. Krosan Grip
6. Memory Plunder
7. Overwhelming Intellect
8. Putrefy: creature spot removal.
9. Spelljack
10. Spin Into Myth
11. Sunder: never played with this before but it might be good especially as I run Oracle+Exploration.
Any suggestions on better cards/cards to trim off would be most welcome!
I would say lower mana cost of some of the cards in the wishboard. I use cunning wish in my competitive 1v1 bant Jenara deck and i was very happy to add it. I will post my comments on it and try to think of some silly black cards for it too! I took alot of my big instants from the deck due to anti-synergy with teeg and my worries about needing multiple instants on key turns, where cards like cryptic command is awkward. Here's my wishboard:
In order of relative situational effectiveness: Moment's Peace - should be main in multiplayer. Bad against control. against aggro, don't have to worry about wish resolving. Also nasty on isochron scepter. Condemn: Again, too bad against control and certian generals (Kalia, Zur) for main. Allows a nasty 1 mana tuck spell in the wishboard for whatever. Mindbreak Trap: I'm 90% sure this works with jhoria suspending 3+ on the same turn. Not only is it a free counter when you need it, but it is uncounterable and exiles it. I would bring it in against your Life from the Loam Voidslime: Could also be trickbind. Some triggers are nasty, like cycling Degree of Annilation and abilities like Mindslaver or Oblivion Stone, My personal favorite: negating relic of progenitus Fracturing Gust: another white one that is super effective. Not sure how to put this in BUG, but perhaps instant board sweepers would work. do some research. Evacuation: The best instant boardwipe. Hands down. Should really be MB in most decks, but not this one. Cryptic Command:A weird card to not run in my deck. It's not because of the triple blue, which is NP, it's that it isn't good against blue and my deck has no space. Turnabout: For those times you need to make a HUGE turn or a big block. Late game this card will add another 6-20 mana and more if you can recur it. Also can tap out a players lands EOT or be a poor cryptic at tapping. Dispel:could be pact of negation too. Needed a cheap hard counter for counterspells and more degenerate instants. Seen in Splinter Twin in Standard rocking out the big combo turn. Curfew: Fills the same role as the edict in hitting shrouded stuff. Works well with Eternal Witness and other ETB effects. Other ETB users will like you as well.
Also merchant scroll finds the cunning wish in my deck, though it usually fetches intuition. I would find room for it.
For Mimeoplasm, Entomb is a nice card to pull out of nowhere and win. And if you have even a few enemy milling cards, memory plunder should be MB.
1) Does your group allow wish boards?
2) How easy is it to find the wish in your colors? If it's say, Burning Wish in a mono-red deck, there's only one card that finds it (Gamble), so it's not that great.
3) Are there enough niche but good effects for this to be worth a slot in your deck?
So, for example, Cunning Wish in a blue deck. You can find the wish via Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and Drift of Phantasms can all find it. At the very least, you can turn it into some random counterspell, some draw spell, a decent bounce spell, a Stifle effect, and a Misdirection effect. So it's probably worthwhile. Living Wish in monogreen, less good, as there are no green ways of tutoring sorceries. Ditto Golden Wish in mono-white, but as there are so few white tutors it might be worthwhile. Glittering Wish suffers the same problem, as does Burning Wish. Death Wish is very tutorable, but the cost is very steep as well. It does have the versatility to get virtually anything.
So in short, they're really only good if your deck runs blue or black, so you can find them easily.
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Thoughts on my proposed Mimeoplasm wish board (still need to cut 1 card):
1. Capsize:gives me the ability to bounce still I wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise (Darksteel Forge), and is a late game win condition with Seedborn Muse.
2. Constant Mists: akin to Moment's Peace, but synergizes better with my deck (I run both Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds).
3. Diabolic Edict: mostly for the random Blightsteel Collosus + Lightning Greaves.
4. Evacuation: instant speed pseudo mass removal.
5. Krosan Grip
6. Memory Plunder
7. Overwhelming Intellect
8. Putrefy: creature spot removal.
9. Spelljack
10. Spin Into Myth
11. Sunder: never played with this before but it might be good especially as I run Oracle+Exploration.
Any suggestions on better cards/cards to trim off would be most welcome!
I don't really know anyone that plays with a Sideboard and the thought never crossed my mind. Personally, I say don't bother. But, I think that 6-7 of the cards on this list should probably be in there anyway so without a deck list it's hard to say. (don't post the list here though of course ;))
Wishes have no effect unless optional sideboard rules are allowed which most groups don't. That said, if your group does allow sideboards then Cunning Wish is probably very strong.
Actually, it is not as good as it sounds. My playgroup does not allow sideboards but specifically allow a 10-card wishboard and so far, it has been pretty underwhelming. Blue and Green already have a plethora of ways to tutor for good instants / sorceries / creatures / lands / whatever they are supposed to search -- add to the fact that monogreen has few ways to tutor for Living Wish in the first place. Black and White has less costly ways of tutoring for their wish cards. Red and perhaps Green-White are the main beneficiaries of these wishboard rules though it doesn't help that Mono Red has few ways of tutoring for Burning Wish and Green-White already has quite a few ways to tutor for everything except instants, planeswalkers and sorceries.
I suppose that the Ring of Ma'rûf could be nifty but given that so few players actually own a copy of that card, that point seems irrelevant -- at least for my playgroup -- and a Planar Portal seems a lot more versatile anyway.
It does not help that both the mainboard and wishboard should be unique to begin with -- i.e. cards in your wishboard cannot appear in your mainboard. Thanks to the singleton version of this format, it is usually better to just place whatever you meant for the sideboard in the mainboard and cull the weakest cards to make up a 99 card library.
Finally, as other posters have mentioned, many other playgroups are purists and may not support wishboards, forcing you to change decks in transit. In short, you have at best, an inefficient tutor or at worst, something totally unsupported by the rules, hence doing next-to-nothing -- though technically, you can discard a Burning Wish to Chandra Ablaze to deal 4 damage.
Actually, it is not as good as it sounds. My playgroup does not allow sideboards but specifically allow a 10-card wishboard and so far, it has been pretty underwhelming. Blue and Green already have a plethora of ways to tutor for good instants / sorceries / creatures / lands / whatever they are supposed to search -- add to the fact that monogreen has few ways to tutor for Living Wish in the first place. Black and White has less costly ways of tutoring for their wish cards. Red and perhaps Green-White are the main beneficiaries of these wishboard rules though it doesn't help that Mono Red has few ways of tutoring for Burning Wish and Green-White already has quite a few ways to tutor for everything except instants, planeswalkers and sorceries.
I was speaking specifically of Cunning Wish, blue can tutor for this. It can't tutor for cards outside of the deck without it so it increases the size of your toolbox by 15 cards (normal sideboard size). Some of these can be very narrow as you don't run the risk of drawing them during the game.
It does not help that both the mainboard and wishboard should be unique to begin with -- i.e. cards in your wishboard cannot appear in your mainboard. Thanks to the singleton version of this format, it is usually better to just place whatever you meant for the sideboard in the mainboard and cull the weakest cards to make up a 99 card library.
You can run some redundancy and some narrow cards at various casting costs. 15 cards gives you a lot to play with.
Finally, as other posters have mentioned, many other playgroups are purists and may not support wishboards, forcing you to change decks in transit. In short, you have at best, an inefficient tutor or at worst, something totally unsupported by the rules, hence doing next-to-nothing -- though technically, you can discard a Burning Wish to Chandra Ablaze to deal 4 damage.
I'm assuming sideboards are allowed, otherwise the wishes are obviously unplayable. Also I'd say 15 cards is plenty of options for a 3 mana instant speed tutor and should make the card quite strong. Trinket Mage is good, is far more limited in what he can search and most people only run a few targets for him. Personally though I'd rather not go through the hassle even if my group did allow them to be used since switching it out for other groups would be annoying.
People who refuse to play against people with wishboards because they're "purists" sound a bit more like they just don't want other people doing things that could possibly be a strong strategy against them (hint: Its not even all that strong). In my experience, every time somebody's come to a game with a wishboard, there was absolutely no problem with it, this includes both EDH and 60-card casual.
People who refuse to play against people with wishboards because they're "purists" sound a bit more like they just don't want other people doing things that could possibly be a strong strategy against them (hint: Its not even all that strong). In my experience, every time somebody's come to a game with a wishboard, there was absolutely no problem with it, this includes both EDH and 60-card casual.
It's not that at all for me. I just like for us all to play by the same rules, regardless of piddly modifying those rules might seem. I don't suspect that Wish Boards are particularly powerful but when you are okay with going against the norm I also see you mulliganing to 7, "not dying" when I hit you for 15 poison, and thinking that Sorin takes you to 20.
I know house rules are HOUSE rules, but I like for us to all go by the same rules - the normal rules. If the RC changed it to "Wish Boards are allowed, you get 10 cards" then I would be totally on board.
People who refuse to play against people with wishboards because they're "purists" sound a bit more like they just don't want other people doing things that could possibly be a strong strategy against them (hint: Its not even all that strong). In my experience, every time somebody's come to a game with a wishboard, there was absolutely no problem with it, this includes both EDH and 60-card casual.
Maybe they just like to play by the rules. Those bastards.
Wish boards... Don't like them, don't use them and in general won't play EDH with someone that wants to use one. If you want to run a wish board play legacy. I am not trying to come off the wrong way here. I'm just giving my 2 cents.
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Some of these can be very narrow as you don't run the risk of drawing them during the game.
It is probably just me but I believe that for an efficient EDH deck, it shouldn't run redundant cards to begin with. Stick with your gameplan and if you must run answers, run them in your deck with blue's many ways of tutoring for them.
I'm assuming sideboards are allowed, otherwise the wishes are obviously unplayable.
My post was refering to cross-playgroup issues. One playgroup may allow wishes and another may not -- and this would require the hassle of swapping cards. Since wishboard rules are not "on" by default, it is not unthinkable to have playgroups declining wishboards -- mainly for the fear of the unknown.
Also I'd say 15 cards is plenty of options for a 3 mana instant speed tutor and should make the card quite strong. Trinket Mage is good, is far more limited in what he can search and most people only run a few targets for him.
Trinket Mage's case is pretty unique, imo. Unless you are running a certain deck, the fact that you only have one trinket mage means that players are naturally only going to run so few trinkets -- the better decks tend to make sure that the trinkets they run are those they wouldn't mind topdecking into anyway (e.g. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Phyrexian Furnace, Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top, etc.)
People who refuse to play against people with wishboards because they're "purists" sound a bit more like they just don't want other people doing things that could possibly be a strong strategy against them (hint: Its not even all that strong).
The fact remains that wishes are not "on" by default. Again, it is the fear of the unknown.
Basically, my point is that if Wishes are overrated even if they are allowed. I can see some cases where the wishes could be good -- it can be a backup for you to hide an inferior substitute combo piece outside the game just so it won't be affected by Sadistic Sacrament or the likes.
Tutoring for what is practically a tutor sounds a tad inefficient.
It gives your tutors more flexibility since they have more things they can get. The more targets for your tutors the better they are even if it can be clunky sometimes. I'm sure Shred Memory and Muddle the Mixture turn into Demonic Tutor quite a bit for example.
A few corrections here.
The normal sideboard size in EDH is about 10 -- unless you house rule it to 15 but I am not here to discuss house rules.
If we accept the above, Cunning Wish increases our access to 9 additional cards (remember to subtract the wish itself).
The de facto increase of toolbox is equals to exactly one. Basically, you are paying 2U for de facto modal spell with 10 modes.
I just assumed it was the same size. 10 it is then (9 since we'll subtract 1 for the wish). It's still a nice boost in size for your toolbox.
It is probably just me but I believe that for an efficient EDH deck, it shouldn't run redundant cards to begin with. Stick with your gameplan and if you must run answers, run them in your deck with blue's many ways of tutoring for them.
Redundancy can be useful for colors like blue where you don't have much recursion or the recursion type effects are rather clunky and not good enough (like shuffling your graveyard back into your library). For something like a counterspell I usually want to have multiples in my controllish decks.
Of course, since you are talking specifically of Cunning Wish, is there anything narrow cards that you are planning to sideboard in for blue?
Certainly, a good example for me personally is Misdirection. I played it as part of my toolbox for a couple years but it just wasn't quite good enough in my playgroup but I would like having access to that type of effect because it can occasionally be very strong. Another card I don't run but would like to have access to is Time Stop, I ended up cutting it because it was too often a fog but I did have some big plays with it. Lastly some redundancy in the form of Stifle (I run Trickbind) but there are games where I wish I had more of this effect.
My post was refering to cross-playgroup issues. One playgroup may allow wishes and another may not -- and this would require the hassle of swapping cards. Since wishboard rules are not "on" by default, it is not unthinkable to have playgroups declining wishboards -- mainly for the fear of the unknown.
I assumed it was a response to my post since I was quoted, I'll assume only the first 2 sentences were a reply to it then and the rest was about cross-playgroup issues and I agree with you, probably not worth the hassle though swapping out a single card certainly isn't going to be very time consuming.
Trinket Mage's case is pretty unique, imo. Unless you are running a certain deck, the fact that you only have one trinket mage means that players are naturally only going to run so few trinkets -- the better decks tend to make sure that the trinkets they run are those they wouldn't mind topdecking into anyway (e.g. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Phyrexian Furnace, Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top, etc.)
My point was that running a tutor without many targets isn't too bad. And Trinket Mage isn't so unique, Imperial Recruiter, Ranger of Eos, and goblin tutors, etc. in a non-goblin tribal deck usually don't have a lot of targets as well but they still see some play because they are versatile.
Basically, my point is that if Wishes are overrated even if they are allowed. I can see some cases where the wishes could be good -- it can be a backup for you to hide an inferior substitute combo piece outside the game just so it won't be affected by Sadistic Sacrament or the likes.
This is really playgroup dependent but the average playgroup is not hyper cutthroat nor even regular cutthroat so my assumption is based on a somewhat slower environment. I even ran Cunning Wish without a wishboard back when it could get exiled cards removed from the game to give me some extra redundancy but sadly that is no longer an option.
maybe its just me, but i have found wishboards to be largely irrelevant in edh. you have more than enough space in your MD to allow for answers to various game states. most of the time the top spells that produce an effect make it into you MD anyway, so your wish is getting a sub-par card. what would you cunning wish for that isnt already in your 99? my guess is just corner case cards, making cunnig wish extremely narrow (go figure).
the only good application i see is if you have multiple play groups who are okay with wishboards and you use it to have meta hate readily accessible without having to sideboard for different groups.
Honestly, the last time I saw a wish actually being played was a casual game, and the shop owner grabbed a FoW from the singles display case for the player to grab (borrowed for the duration of the game, of course). There was no wishboard, people were just having some fun.
I've got no problem with wishboards. The wish spells are legal for play, players should be able to actually resolve their effect. Is there any other card in the format with absolutely no effect?
In my experience people are strangely pushy with this in casual, which makes no sense to me.
As far as I know the only abusive wish strategy was 4x Burning Wish as a way to increase the effective number of a key sorcery in a deck to 7 (3 of the sorcery in-deck and 1 in the wish board). If someone tries that in 60-card casual I might be a bit miffed. Then again, there are plenty of ways to be a jerk in 60-card casual.
The idea that wishes are somehow a problem in commander is absurd. The only scary wish in commander is Spawnsire of Ulamog, if you just so happen to have 30 mana kicking around (which could also just be used for any of a number of bomb-y X-spells)
I used Burning Wish in my old meta, not sure what it will be like when I find a new group after my recent move. To me, wishes are like custom modal spells. Nice, but not game breaking. I always figured that if someone gets miffed, I just sub in one of my wishboard cards in place of the wish, and don't worry about it much. They are no more broken than tutors in general, and considering that a wishboard is smaller than an entire deck, they are arguably weaker. I have some discussion in the archives of the deck in my profile if you are interested, and there are some other threads on here that go through this. Bottom line is that some people are overly miffed, but I have found them to be another fun card to play, and no more broken than a ton of other cards.
Well, this is a necro... not sure why you didn't make a new thread.
My problem with wishes is simple - it is a rules variant that most people do not want to use. Since I am always playing different players, my deck are a built in accordance with the official rules.
When people suddenly ask me if they can have a wishboard, I get peeved, because it is an advantage my deck doesn't have. If I want graveyard hate, it is taking a slot in my deck.
That is a huge advantage. If I want to have answers to graveyards, I play cards that help me against graveyard decks. If I want to stop storm players, I need to play cards that beat storm. And if I am not playing any specific kind of deck, I have a bunch of dead cards in my library.
If wishes were in the official rules, I'd be fine with it (and probably play a few). As it is, it is a huge advantage for the person making the request since most people do not have access to wishboards.
It's like having a spell in your deck that other people aren't allowed to play. I can ask people if they are okay with me using Balance. It wouldn't be fair though, because they have not built their decks with Balance in mind as a legal card.
Well, this is a necro... not sure why you didn't make a new thread.
My problem with wishes is simple - it is a rules variant that most people do not want to use. Since I am always playing different players, my deck are a built in accordance with the official rules.
When people suddenly ask me if they can have a wishboard, I get peeved, because it is an advantage my deck doesn't have. If I want graveyard hate, it is taking a slot in my deck.
That is a huge advantage. If I want to have answers to graveyards, I play cards that help me against graveyard decks. If I want to stop storm players, I need to play cards that beat storm. And if I am not playing any specific kind of deck, I have a bunch of dead cards in my library.
If wishes were in the official rules, I'd be fine with it (and probably play a few). As it is, it is a huge advantage for the person making the request since most people do not have access to wishboards.
It's like having a spell in your deck that other people aren't allowed to play. I can ask people if they are okay with me using Balance. It wouldn't be fair though, because they have not built their decks with Balance in mind as a legal card.
Works the same with wishes.
I think that is why some people have advocated that the Rules Committee provide rules for Wishes and other cards that refer to cards "outside the game" so that they actually work in commander (versus the current rules which state that these cards do nothing). That way there is no ambiguity on the matter. I think that creating a simple set of rules for a "wishboard" makes sense if for no other reason than to make sure that a player playing a wish doesn't waste everyone's time and start flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card.
What I would like to see is a change to Rule 13 from this:
13. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.
to this:
13. Since games of Commander are played without sideboards, abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the games (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf, etc.) function in Commander with the following rules:
The player must have a "wishboard" of no more than 10 cards prepared before the start of the match.
The cards in the "wishboard" must conform to the color identity of your commander (see Rule 3)
The cards in your "wishboard" do not count as part of your 100-card deck (see Rule 4)
Cards in your "wishboard" may not be in your 100-card deck and vice versa (see Rule 5)
Well, this is a necro... not sure why you didn't make a new thread.
My problem with wishes is simple - it is a rules variant that most people do not want to use. Since I am always playing different players, my deck are a built in accordance with the official rules.
When people suddenly ask me if they can have a wishboard, I get peeved, because it is an advantage my deck doesn't have. If I want graveyard hate, it is taking a slot in my deck.
That is a huge advantage. If I want to have answers to graveyards, I play cards that help me against graveyard decks. If I want to stop storm players, I need to play cards that beat storm. And if I am not playing any specific kind of deck, I have a bunch of dead cards in my library.
If wishes were in the official rules, I'd be fine with it (and probably play a few). As it is, it is a huge advantage for the person making the request since most people do not have access to wishboards.
It's like having a spell in your deck that other people aren't allowed to play. I can ask people if they are okay with me using Balance. It wouldn't be fair though, because they have not built their decks with Balance in mind as a legal card.
Works the same with wishes.
I think that is why some people have advocated that the Rules Committee provide rules for Wishes and other cards that refer to cards "outside the game" so that they actually work in commander (versus the current rules which state that these cards do nothing). That way there is no ambiguity on the matter. I think that creating a simple set of rules for a "wishboard" makes sense if for no other reason than to make sure that a player playing a wish doesn't waste everyone's time and start flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card.
What I would like to see is a change to Rule 13 from this:
13. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.
to this:
13. Since games of Commander are played without sideboards, abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the games (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf, etc.) function in Commander with the following rules:
The player must have a "wishboard" of no more than 10 cards prepared before the start of the match.
The cards in the "wishboard" must conform to the color identity of your commander (see Rule 3)
The cards in your "wishboard" do not count as part of your 100-card deck (see Rule 4)
Cards in your "wishboard" may not be in your 100-card deck and vice versa (see Rule 5)
I agree that this would be the way to do it.
That being said, I doubt they will ever be part of the game. EDH is 100 card singleton. 100 cards + 10 is a bit odd, especially since it is a singleton format.
Wishes have no effect unless optional sideboard rules are allowed which most groups don't. That said, if your group does allow sideboards then Cunning Wish is probably very strong.
Source:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8526&p=90025#p90025
1. Capsize:gives me the ability to bounce still I wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise (Darksteel Forge), and is a late game win condition with Seedborn Muse.
2. Constant Mists: akin to Moment's Peace, but synergizes better with my deck (I run both Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds).
3. Diabolic Edict: mostly for the random Blightsteel Collosus + Lightning Greaves.
4. Evacuation: instant speed pseudo mass removal.
5. Krosan Grip
6. Memory Plunder
7. Overwhelming Intellect
8. Putrefy: creature spot removal.
9. Spelljack
10. Spin Into Myth
11. Sunder: never played with this before but it might be good especially as I run Oracle+Exploration.
Any suggestions on better cards/cards to trim off would be most welcome!
In order of relative situational effectiveness:
Moment's Peace - should be main in multiplayer. Bad against control. against aggro, don't have to worry about wish resolving. Also nasty on isochron scepter.
Condemn: Again, too bad against control and certian generals (Kalia, Zur) for main. Allows a nasty 1 mana tuck spell in the wishboard for whatever.
Mindbreak Trap: I'm 90% sure this works with jhoria suspending 3+ on the same turn. Not only is it a free counter when you need it, but it is uncounterable and exiles it. I would bring it in against your Life from the Loam
Voidslime: Could also be trickbind. Some triggers are nasty, like cycling Degree of Annilation and abilities like Mindslaver or Oblivion Stone, My personal favorite: negating relic of progenitus
Fracturing Gust: another white one that is super effective. Not sure how to put this in BUG, but perhaps instant board sweepers would work. do some research.
Evacuation: The best instant boardwipe. Hands down. Should really be MB in most decks, but not this one.
Cryptic Command:A weird card to not run in my deck. It's not because of the triple blue, which is NP, it's that it isn't good against blue and my deck has no space.
Turnabout: For those times you need to make a HUGE turn or a big block. Late game this card will add another 6-20 mana and more if you can recur it. Also can tap out a players lands EOT or be a poor cryptic at tapping.
Dispel:could be pact of negation too. Needed a cheap hard counter for counterspells and more degenerate instants. Seen in Splinter Twin in Standard rocking out the big combo turn.
Curfew: Fills the same role as the edict in hitting shrouded stuff. Works well with Eternal Witness and other ETB effects. Other ETB users will like you as well.
Also merchant scroll finds the cunning wish in my deck, though it usually fetches intuition. I would find room for it.
For Mimeoplasm, Entomb is a nice card to pull out of nowhere and win. And if you have even a few enemy milling cards, memory plunder should be MB.
1) Does your group allow wish boards?
2) How easy is it to find the wish in your colors? If it's say, Burning Wish in a mono-red deck, there's only one card that finds it (Gamble), so it's not that great.
3) Are there enough niche but good effects for this to be worth a slot in your deck?
So, for example, Cunning Wish in a blue deck. You can find the wish via Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and Drift of Phantasms can all find it. At the very least, you can turn it into some random counterspell, some draw spell, a decent bounce spell, a Stifle effect, and a Misdirection effect. So it's probably worthwhile.
Living Wish in monogreen, less good, as there are no green ways of tutoring sorceries. Ditto Golden Wish in mono-white, but as there are so few white tutors it might be worthwhile. Glittering Wish suffers the same problem, as does Burning Wish. Death Wish is very tutorable, but the cost is very steep as well. It does have the versatility to get virtually anything.
So in short, they're really only good if your deck runs blue or black, so you can find them easily.
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I don't really know anyone that plays with a Sideboard and the thought never crossed my mind. Personally, I say don't bother. But, I think that 6-7 of the cards on this list should probably be in there anyway so without a deck list it's hard to say. (don't post the list here though of course ;))
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Actually, it is not as good as it sounds. My playgroup does not allow sideboards but specifically allow a 10-card wishboard and so far, it has been pretty underwhelming. Blue and Green already have a plethora of ways to tutor for good instants / sorceries / creatures / lands / whatever they are supposed to search -- add to the fact that monogreen has few ways to tutor for Living Wish in the first place. Black and White has less costly ways of tutoring for their wish cards. Red and perhaps Green-White are the main beneficiaries of these wishboard rules though it doesn't help that Mono Red has few ways of tutoring for Burning Wish and Green-White already has quite a few ways to tutor for everything except instants, planeswalkers and sorceries.
I suppose that the Ring of Ma'rûf could be nifty but given that so few players actually own a copy of that card, that point seems irrelevant -- at least for my playgroup -- and a Planar Portal seems a lot more versatile anyway.
It does not help that both the mainboard and wishboard should be unique to begin with -- i.e. cards in your wishboard cannot appear in your mainboard. Thanks to the singleton version of this format, it is usually better to just place whatever you meant for the sideboard in the mainboard and cull the weakest cards to make up a 99 card library.
Finally, as other posters have mentioned, many other playgroups are purists and may not support wishboards, forcing you to change decks in transit. In short, you have at best, an inefficient tutor or at worst, something totally unsupported by the rules, hence doing next-to-nothing -- though technically, you can discard a Burning Wish to Chandra Ablaze to deal 4 damage.
You can run some redundancy and some narrow cards at various casting costs. 15 cards gives you a lot to play with.
I'm assuming sideboards are allowed, otherwise the wishes are obviously unplayable. Also I'd say 15 cards is plenty of options for a 3 mana instant speed tutor and should make the card quite strong. Trinket Mage is good, is far more limited in what he can search and most people only run a few targets for him. Personally though I'd rather not go through the hassle even if my group did allow them to be used since switching it out for other groups would be annoying.
It's not that at all for me. I just like for us all to play by the same rules, regardless of piddly modifying those rules might seem. I don't suspect that Wish Boards are particularly powerful but when you are okay with going against the norm I also see you mulliganing to 7, "not dying" when I hit you for 15 poison, and thinking that Sorin takes you to 20.
I know house rules are HOUSE rules, but I like for us to all go by the same rules - the normal rules. If the RC changed it to "Wish Boards are allowed, you get 10 cards" then I would be totally on board.
/Smokey, this is not 'Nam.
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Maybe they just like to play by the rules. Those bastards.
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Tutoring for what is practically a tutor sounds a tad inefficient.
A few corrections here.
It is probably just me but I believe that for an efficient EDH deck, it shouldn't run redundant cards to begin with. Stick with your gameplan and if you must run answers, run them in your deck with blue's many ways of tutoring for them.
Of course, since you are talking specifically of Cunning Wish, is there anything narrow cards that you are planning to sideboard in for blue?
My post was refering to cross-playgroup issues. One playgroup may allow wishes and another may not -- and this would require the hassle of swapping cards. Since wishboard rules are not "on" by default, it is not unthinkable to have playgroups declining wishboards -- mainly for the fear of the unknown.
Trinket Mage's case is pretty unique, imo. Unless you are running a certain deck, the fact that you only have one trinket mage means that players are naturally only going to run so few trinkets -- the better decks tend to make sure that the trinkets they run are those they wouldn't mind topdecking into anyway (e.g. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Phyrexian Furnace, Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top, etc.)
The fact remains that wishes are not "on" by default. Again, it is the fear of the unknown.
Basically, my point is that if Wishes are overrated even if they are allowed. I can see some cases where the wishes could be good -- it can be a backup for you to hide an inferior substitute combo piece outside the game just so it won't be affected by Sadistic Sacrament or the likes.
I just assumed it was the same size. 10 it is then (9 since we'll subtract 1 for the wish). It's still a nice boost in size for your toolbox.
Redundancy can be useful for colors like blue where you don't have much recursion or the recursion type effects are rather clunky and not good enough (like shuffling your graveyard back into your library). For something like a counterspell I usually want to have multiples in my controllish decks.
Certainly, a good example for me personally is Misdirection. I played it as part of my toolbox for a couple years but it just wasn't quite good enough in my playgroup but I would like having access to that type of effect because it can occasionally be very strong. Another card I don't run but would like to have access to is Time Stop, I ended up cutting it because it was too often a fog but I did have some big plays with it. Lastly some redundancy in the form of Stifle (I run Trickbind) but there are games where I wish I had more of this effect.
I assumed it was a response to my post since I was quoted, I'll assume only the first 2 sentences were a reply to it then and the rest was about cross-playgroup issues and I agree with you, probably not worth the hassle though swapping out a single card certainly isn't going to be very time consuming.
My point was that running a tutor without many targets isn't too bad. And Trinket Mage isn't so unique, Imperial Recruiter, Ranger of Eos, and goblin tutors, etc. in a non-goblin tribal deck usually don't have a lot of targets as well but they still see some play because they are versatile.
This is really playgroup dependent but the average playgroup is not hyper cutthroat nor even regular cutthroat so my assumption is based on a somewhat slower environment. I even ran Cunning Wish without a wishboard back when it could get
exiledcards removed from the game to give me some extra redundancy but sadly that is no longer an option.the only good application i see is if you have multiple play groups who are okay with wishboards and you use it to have meta hate readily accessible without having to sideboard for different groups.
I've got no problem with wishboards. The wish spells are legal for play, players should be able to actually resolve their effect. Is there any other card in the format with absolutely no effect?
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As far as I know the only abusive wish strategy was 4x Burning Wish as a way to increase the effective number of a key sorcery in a deck to 7 (3 of the sorcery in-deck and 1 in the wish board). If someone tries that in 60-card casual I might be a bit miffed. Then again, there are plenty of ways to be a jerk in 60-card casual.
The idea that wishes are somehow a problem in commander is absurd. The only scary wish in commander is Spawnsire of Ulamog, if you just so happen to have 30 mana kicking around (which could also just be used for any of a number of bomb-y X-spells)
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My problem with wishes is simple - it is a rules variant that most people do not want to use. Since I am always playing different players, my deck are a built in accordance with the official rules.
When people suddenly ask me if they can have a wishboard, I get peeved, because it is an advantage my deck doesn't have. If I want graveyard hate, it is taking a slot in my deck.
Let's take Golden Wish as an example. Instead of dedicating deck-space to hate cards, you can fill your wishboard with Rest in Peace, Rule of Law, Stony Silence, Torpor Orb, Humility, Back to Basics and some generic good stuff.
That is a huge advantage. If I want to have answers to graveyards, I play cards that help me against graveyard decks. If I want to stop storm players, I need to play cards that beat storm. And if I am not playing any specific kind of deck, I have a bunch of dead cards in my library.
If wishes were in the official rules, I'd be fine with it (and probably play a few). As it is, it is a huge advantage for the person making the request since most people do not have access to wishboards.
It's like having a spell in your deck that other people aren't allowed to play. I can ask people if they are okay with me using Balance. It wouldn't be fair though, because they have not built their decks with Balance in mind as a legal card.
Works the same with wishes.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
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I think that is why some people have advocated that the Rules Committee provide rules for Wishes and other cards that refer to cards "outside the game" so that they actually work in commander (versus the current rules which state that these cards do nothing). That way there is no ambiguity on the matter. I think that creating a simple set of rules for a "wishboard" makes sense if for no other reason than to make sure that a player playing a wish doesn't waste everyone's time and start flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card.
What I would like to see is a change to Rule 13 from this:
13. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.
to this:
13. Since games of Commander are played without sideboards, abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the games (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf, etc.) function in Commander with the following rules:
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I agree that this would be the way to do it.
That being said, I doubt they will ever be part of the game. EDH is 100 card singleton. 100 cards + 10 is a bit odd, especially since it is a singleton format.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers