Okay, guys. Can we brainstorm some ideas for a relentless rats deck that breaks the marrow gnawing mono black mould?
I was thinking of a ubx deck involving Search the City and Sphinx of the Chimes. Can you guys think of any generals or other cards that are sympathetic to my goals? I just want to over run the board with rats.
Edit: Over... run... I think I just answered part of my own question. BUG generals and Green Card suggestions get bonus points!
I've heard that Damia, Sage of Stone is a decent option, since she can refill your hand full of more rats.
As for Search the City, it's still terrible, even in a deck with Relentless Rats -- you basically need the top 5 cards to be Rats or basic lands, and nothing else, and you still have to jump through a few hoops just to get an extra turn. I'd rather just run Time Warp/Time Stretch and save myself the trouble. Sphinx of the Chimes, on the other hand, is fairly awesome here since you can actually use its ability to great effect.
Ogre Slumlord would be a pretty awesome choice to give deathtouch to your rats, and the rat tokens synergize with Pack Rat (which you should be running as well, without question -- and it's yet another way to run out of your hand for Damia). Something like Asceticism to give your creatures hexproof would be nice, too -- otherwise, Maelstrom Pulse/Detention Sphere/similar cards will be a beating.
Also, let's not forget Thrumming Stone, but I'm sure you know that already.
Bloodbond March seems like an awesome piece of tech to help you recover from board wipes. Doubling Chant also could have some use here.
I've heard that Damia, Sage of Stone is a decent option, since she can refill your hand full of more rats.
As for Search the City, it's still terrible, even in a deck with Relentless Rats -- you basically need the top 5 cards to be Rats or basic lands, and nothing else, and you still have to jump through a few hoops just to get an extra turn. I'd rather just run Time Warp/Time Stretch and save myself the trouble. Sphinx of the Chimes, on the other hand, is fairly awesome here since you can actually use its ability to great effect.
Ogre Slumlord would be a pretty awesome choice to give deathtouch to your rats, and the rat tokens synergize with Pack Rat (which you should be running as well, without question -- and it's yet another way to run out of your hand for Damia). Something like Asceticism to give your creatures hexproof would be nice, too -- otherwise, Maelstrom Pulse/Detention Sphere/similar cards will be a beating.
Also, let's not forget Thrumming Stone, but I'm sure you know that already.
I think that's where I'm going with this. Damia looks like the best option, since I think the only bug generals are the ones from the commander box (including the dragon from tsp). Mimeoplasm doesn't bring much to my table other than maybe a second theme.
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
I feel like you're only going to want a few non-rat cards so you can at least be guaranteed a rat per turn. The ones that give you recursion and heavy dig are great, as well as ones that protect your board, but consider running a tutor package instead of redundancy.
I built a test deck like this and found that if you have 26+ rats, the average thrumming stone activation will get half of them into play. So Concordant Crossroads might be worth it too.
I'm not such a fan of vials in edh. They're probably better than some slot in my current wip list, but they're not my favorite card for this type of deck. I feel like a nice powerful ramp spell is going to get me more mileage.
Locket of Yesterdays is cute, though. I'm sorta trying to stick to a pseudo tribal feel for all the cards included unless they're just really powerful advantage (phyrexian arena is in, for example). Locket fits that vibe pretty well. Jet medallion just does more, though. Locket is only ever going to bring the rats down to BB, which medallion does as well. Again, I think a good heavy ramp spell is going to go farther, though.
I built a test deck like this and found that if you have 26+ rats, the average thrumming stone activation will get half of them into play. So Concordant Crossroads might be worth it too.
Dream Halls also has awesome synergy with Damia, my general. That's definitely in. I'd toyed around with the idea of brawn, and wonder. I didn't know filth even existed. If there's a white one, I didn't know about that either. I just thought it was anger, brawn, wonder, and genesis.
I prefer Alchemists Refuge type cards over Concordant Crossroads type cards because they work better with damia as a spellslinger. Having a second game plan without having to add much bulk is really helpful.
Edit: Looked them up. Ooh, I like valor. Why is filth so much worse than the rest of them?
Filth isn't that bad, you're already playing B so you're probably at least considering Urborg and Cabal Coffers and Urborg turns EVERYONE's lands into swamps which makes Filth arguably better than a Fear effect.
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
Added some lands into Consideration, that could replace your Vivids, basic fetches and Temple. I have these resources so I include them, please don't be offended if they are not available, simply trying to help optimize what seems like a fun deck.
With all those suggestions (which are basically goodstuff), it doesn't help the idea of a deck that uses multiple of the same card (which is supposed to be against the EDH rules) I am loving the idea of an EDH deck that runs multiples but aside from Bloodbond March, Doubling Chant, Thrumming Stone, Sphinx of the Chimes and Patriarch's Bidding there doesn't seem to be any more ways to leverage that.
Any more suggestions out there? Search the City is intriguing but too weak/useless.
Ok, cutting this short because the darn post is too long anyway.
Filth isn't that bad, you're already playing B so you're probably at least considering Urborg and Cabal Coffers and Urborg turns EVERYONE's lands into swamps which makes Filth arguably better than a Fear effect.
Yeah Filth is actually I think the second best one (after Anger) because you can so easily tutor up Urborg to make all your creatures unblockable.
I prefer Alchemists Refuge type cards over Concordant Crossroads type cards because they work better with damia as a spellslinger. Having a second game plan without having to add much bulk is really helpful.
Edit: Looked them up. Ooh, I like valor. Why is filth so much worse than the rest of them?
Are you going to run Thrumming Stone? Are you running 25 or more rats? Test this out - load up the deck in cockatrice or whatever and see how many rats on average you get out of a Thrumming Stone (remembering that each additional rat triggers a new ripple 4). When I playtested this with 26 rats I got an average of 12 or more into play any time I did it. Finding yourself with well over 100 power on the table but no haste isn't fun as your opponent will wrath for sure.
Are you going to run Thrumming Stone? Are you running 25 or more rats? Test this out - load up the deck in cockatrice or whatever and see how many rats on average you get out of a Thrumming Stone (remembering that each additional rat triggers a new ripple 4). When I playtested this with 26 rats I got an average of 12 or more into play any time I did it. Finding yourself with well over 100 power on the table but no haste isn't fun as your opponent will wrath for sure.
I run about 30 in my deck and can get every single one out with Thrumming Stone consistently.
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You're in green, so Genesis Wave is a thing you could do. Same with Primal Surge. Also try Weird Harvest for a similar effect that goes better with your sphinx strategy.
Some secret tech would be Echoing Truth to save all your rats from a wrath effect, or in response to your own Damnation. Combine with Aluren for humorous results.
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EDH Decks:
RRRDo Not Pursue Lu Bu!!!RRR UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
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I was thinking of a ubx deck involving Search the City and Sphinx of the Chimes. Can you guys think of any generals or other cards that are sympathetic to my goals? I just want to over run the board with rats.
Edit: Over... run... I think I just answered part of my own question. BUG generals and Green Card suggestions get bonus points!
As for Search the City, it's still terrible, even in a deck with Relentless Rats -- you basically need the top 5 cards to be Rats or basic lands, and nothing else, and you still have to jump through a few hoops just to get an extra turn. I'd rather just run Time Warp/Time Stretch and save myself the trouble. Sphinx of the Chimes, on the other hand, is fairly awesome here since you can actually use its ability to great effect.
Ogre Slumlord would be a pretty awesome choice to give deathtouch to your rats, and the rat tokens synergize with Pack Rat (which you should be running as well, without question -- and it's yet another way to run out of your hand for Damia). Something like Asceticism to give your creatures hexproof would be nice, too -- otherwise, Maelstrom Pulse/Detention Sphere/similar cards will be a beating.
Also, let's not forget Thrumming Stone, but I'm sure you know that already.
Bloodbond March seems like an awesome piece of tech to help you recover from board wipes. Doubling Chant also could have some use here.
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Better yet, why not all three?
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
I think that's where I'm going with this. Damia looks like the best option, since I think the only bug generals are the ones from the commander box (including the dragon from tsp). Mimeoplasm doesn't bring much to my table other than maybe a second theme.
You should see my face right now. You, sir or madam, are disgusting and I like it.
I didn't mean the card by name, just effects like that. Overwhelming Stampede and Craterhoof are on my mind right now.
Pack Hunt is another card you might think about including.
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EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
cuz squirrels are rodents? lol
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us
WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser
GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe
RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
I built a test deck like this and found that if you have 26+ rats, the average thrumming stone activation will get half of them into play. So Concordant Crossroads might be worth it too.
I'm not such a fan of vials in edh. They're probably better than some slot in my current wip list, but they're not my favorite card for this type of deck. I feel like a nice powerful ramp spell is going to get me more mileage.
Locket of Yesterdays is cute, though. I'm sorta trying to stick to a pseudo tribal feel for all the cards included unless they're just really powerful advantage (phyrexian arena is in, for example). Locket fits that vibe pretty well. Jet medallion just does more, though. Locket is only ever going to bring the rats down to BB, which medallion does as well. Again, I think a good heavy ramp spell is going to go farther, though.
Dream Halls also has awesome synergy with Damia, my general. That's definitely in. I'd toyed around with the idea of brawn, and wonder. I didn't know filth even existed. If there's a white one, I didn't know about that either. I just thought it was anger, brawn, wonder, and genesis.
I prefer Alchemists Refuge type cards over Concordant Crossroads type cards because they work better with damia as a spellslinger. Having a second game plan without having to add much bulk is really helpful.
Edit: Looked them up. Ooh, I like valor. Why is filth so much worse than the rest of them?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/damia-sage-of-rodents/
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube
- Filth
- Brawn
- Anger
- Wonder
- Valor
All belong together and these are from the same set/sorta cycle but function differently.These use mana activations.
- Purity
- Hostility
- Vigor
- Dread
- Guile
Are part of a different cycle. They are definitely similar but diverse.Here is your deck listing for commentary
1 Command Tower
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
1 Hinterland Harbor
4 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
9 Swamp
1 Swarmyard
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Fresh Meat
1 Golgari Charm
1 Hinder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Naturalize
1 Noxious Revival
1 Putrefy
1 Brainspoil
1 Decree of Pain
1 Distant Melody
1 Doubling Chant
1 Fabricate
1 Genesis Wave
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Overrun
1 Pack Hunt
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Recollect
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Bloodbond March
1 Dream Halls
1 Grave Pact
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Nantuko Shrine
1 Parallel Thoughts
1 Marrow-Gnawer
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Mortivore
1 Pack Rat
25 Relentless Rats
1 Sphinx of the Chimes
1 Vela the Night-Clad
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Sol Ring
1 Thrumming Stone
1 Door of Destinies
1 Mortal Combat
1 Psychic Spiral
4 Relentless Rats
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Ogre Slum Lord
1 Earthcraft
1 Regrowth
1 Arcane Denial
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Ratcatcher
1 Living Death
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Rhystic Study
Not a fan of Nantuko Shrine, Naturalize, Mortivore, Golgari Charm (I do like it's regen mode). Novijen seems too mana hungry and less useful. Parallel Thoughts seems less then useful, seems like Rhystic Study would net you more cards and be cheaper mana wise.
I would include Ogre Slumlord, he seems fun. Arcane Denial is a hard counter that is easier to cast, Regrowth is a upgrade to Recollect. Living Death could be mucho rats, especially with Leyline out to make it one sided. Earthcraft could help solve mana problems. Nezumi Graverobber would give you some grave hate in character. Ratcatcher gives you some tutoring power and rat draw (Packrat). Sensei's Divining Top could certainly help smooth draws and set up Thrumming Stone better.
With all those suggestions (which are basically goodstuff), it doesn't help the idea of a deck that uses multiple of the same card (which is supposed to be against the EDH rules) I am loving the idea of an EDH deck that runs multiples but aside from Bloodbond March, Doubling Chant, Thrumming Stone, Sphinx of the Chimes and Patriarch's Bidding there doesn't seem to be any more ways to leverage that.
Any more suggestions out there? Search the City is intriguing but too weak/useless.
Ok, cutting this short because the darn post is too long anyway.
There's also Dread, Guile, and Hostility, buy that's something totally different.
Yeah Filth is actually I think the second best one (after Anger) because you can so easily tutor up Urborg to make all your creatures unblockable.
Are you going to run Thrumming Stone? Are you running 25 or more rats? Test this out - load up the deck in cockatrice or whatever and see how many rats on average you get out of a Thrumming Stone (remembering that each additional rat triggers a new ripple 4). When I playtested this with 26 rats I got an average of 12 or more into play any time I did it. Finding yourself with well over 100 power on the table but no haste isn't fun as your opponent will wrath for sure.
Oh, and Bloodbond March is the stone cold nuts for Rats. I always felt dirty playing it.
I run about 30 in my deck and can get every single one out with Thrumming Stone consistently.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Some secret tech would be Echoing Truth to save all your rats from a wrath effect, or in response to your own Damnation. Combine with Aluren for humorous results.
UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU
WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW
BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB
GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross