RUG is one of my favorite color combos in 60-card formats. When I was getting back into MTG during ZEN Standard after a long hiatus, RUG Titan with Explores and Lotus Cobras into Inferno Titans was a thing, and it was awesome. I really like RUG Delver in both Modern and Legacy as well.
Nevertheless, I've never been able to build a RUG deck in EDH. I just don't get how the strengths of those colors in 60-card formats translate to EDH. RUG is usually played as a tempo deck in 60-card formats. Does tempo really work in multiplayer? And then, thinking specifically, red is the color that I don't really know what to do with. Lightning Bolt alone is enough of a reason to run red in Legacy - it's perhaps the best and undeniably the most versatile removal in the format. Likewise with Pyroclasm in Modern - it's perhaps the best sweeper. But red's removal sucks in EDH, and it's "bombs" kind of suck too, which is why I usually end up dropping red and playing Bant or BUG instead of RUG.
So, somebody help me out - what is RUG's niche in EDH? Where does it truly shine?
I guess that's the problem - they're all build-around. They, not the colors, define the strategy of the deck. Wanderer is hurt durr topdeck manipulation shenanigans, Animar is creature combo, and Riku is some variety of spell-sling value town. I'm not super into any of those, which is probably why I haven't ended up playing a RUG deck yet.
That said, RUG's strength in general is all about being explosive. You don't usually run too much removal because W/B usually has all the good ones, so you just try ramp and combo out the table quickly.
That said, RUG's strength in general is all about being explosive. You don't usually run too much removal because W/B usually has all the good ones, so you just try ramp and combo out the table quickly.
That's kind of what I figured (that some explosive combo was really all RUG can do super well in EDH).
RUG is the color of creature goodstuffs mostly. It has a lot of brilliant high-impact creatures without too much defined synergy. I mean you can put together decks with more complicated stnergies and themes, but creature goodstuffs is what the colors are good at and what they're known for. And that's a large part of why clones are so popular in those colors.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
RUG is the color of creature goodstuffs mostly. It has a lot of brilliant high-impact creatures without too much defined synergy. I mean you can put together decks with more complicated stnergies and themes, but creature goodstuffs is what the colors are good at and what they're known for. And that's a large part of why clones are so popular in those colors.
So, just to play devil's advocate, here: Why would I want to go RUG over Bant for creature goodstuff when Bant gives...
It just seems like red brings so little to the table. White's creatures seem better across the board in my mind. White brings better utility. Even the things red does "well" (i.e. land destruction), white does more efficiently.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to play RUG. I just can't figure out why I should do so over other color combos...
You also get some really sweet multicolor cards like Dack's Duplicate, which in my opinion is one of the best creatures printed for EDH in the past decade.
Haste constitutes a big difference between Ceta and Bant. Cards like Anger and Xenagos, God of Revels help enormously when you're trying to bring the beatdown. Red also offers various Fork-type effects, which I love. I'm certainly not saying red's better than white, but it does offer powerful options that white lacks. And red has Wheel of Fortune and company, potent aggressive creatures, mana generation, etc.
Haste constitutes a big difference between Ceta and Bant. Cards like Anger and Xenagos, God of Revels help enormously when you're trying to bring the beatdown. Red also offers various Fork-type effects, which I love. I'm certainly not saying red's better than white, but it does offer powerful options that white lacks. And red has Wheel of Fortune and company, potent aggressive creatures, mana generation, etc.
Haste does strike me as perhaps the biggest plus red could bring to a creature-based deck.
You also get some really sweet multicolor cards like Dack's Duplicate, which in my opinion is one of the best creatures printed for EDH in the past decade.
This is making me conclude that it's not that I don't like RUG in EDH, it's just that I don't like red in EDH. Threaten effects are of no interest to me. Why would I want to wait around to steal whatever my opponent might play? I'd rather play something better than them in the first place, and/or prevent them from playing anything at all
To be honest, I would suggest playing both. Play Bant for the control-tempo type of deck that you seem to want. For the type of deck that you have been describing in this thread, I would say Bant is the better choice. Then build a RUG deck in whatever fashion you want, even going so far as using a general just for its color identity. I guess what Im trying to say is that maybe your desire to build an EDH version of your Modern/Legacy RUG decks is forcing your RUG EDH deck to be something that its not or cant do.
Efficient, dangerous combo like Animar is one of RUG's strengths. Very formidable, even if it is vulnerable to board wipes. Otherwise, the abundance of good ramp, creature quality, and control elements means that RUG is a fantastic color for just shoving your favorite cards into one deck.
I started with an izzet deck (nin to be precise) and liked what it did, but felt it needed more ramp so added green and in came cards like cultivate. Eventually it mutated into the deck I have now.
RUG has four generals. Three basically are variants of "free spells", though they do play differently (e.g., Animar, Soul of Elements is more creature-focused than the others), while the fourth, Riku of Two Reflections, is basically about copying.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I played a Maelstrom Wanderer RUG deck for awhile, and it performed decently in multiplayer until it encountered, surprisingly enough, group hug decks. Opponents making you draw constantly can completely screw up a combo you've set up with, for example, brainstorm. Then I just dropped the red and played Kruphix for my general - things have never been better for me in multiplayer.
My Intet, the Dreamer deck is admittedly not the most powerful thing - but that's partially by my own choices, given all the random/pseudo-random things the deck plays.
One thing I would say Intet has over Animar, Riku and Wanderer... she's not quite as much kill-on-sight. Going tempo-control voltron approach with Intet could definitely work if you throw some topdeck manipulation into the mix - some heavy-duty 'most power for my buck' equipment/auras, bit of protection, ramp/draw, counterspells, cap it off with Sleep and Wildfire variants to drive the damage home and get more free spells.
Yeah, it's not the easiest win by any stretch of the imagination... but I would imagine more fun than yet another Wanderer or Animar.
As for colors, red is pretty invaluable in 'big things beat' aggro approach - haste, double strike (though this is also white), damage-based sweeps (that leave your big dragons and such alive, usually), wheels and other red goodies here and there.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
RUG is arguably a top 3 color combination in EDH. The general selection, IMO, gives it an edge over BUG.
Ramp, draw, haste, and recursion are all pretty clutch in EDH. Add combo support and some niche tutoring and you can easily steam roll a table.
Damia and Mimeoplasm decks are better than Riku/Animar/Wanderer decks, even if as standalone cards riku/animar/wanderer are stronger. That's how big the advantage is for getting B instead of R.
RUG is one of my favorite color combos in 60-card formats. When I was getting back into MTG during ZEN Standard after a long hiatus, RUG Titan with Explores and Lotus Cobras into Inferno Titans was a thing, and it was awesome. I really like RUG Delver in both Modern and Legacy as well.
Nevertheless, I've never been able to build a RUG deck in EDH. I just don't get how the strengths of those colors in 60-card formats translate to EDH. RUG is usually played as a tempo deck in 60-card formats. Does tempo really work in multiplayer? And then, thinking specifically, red is the color that I don't really know what to do with. Lightning Bolt alone is enough of a reason to run red in Legacy - it's perhaps the best and undeniably the most versatile removal in the format. Likewise with Pyroclasm in Modern - it's perhaps the best sweeper. But red's removal sucks in EDH, and it's "bombs" kind of suck too, which is why I usually end up dropping red and playing Bant or BUG instead of RUG.
So, somebody help me out - what is RUG's niche in EDH? Where does it truly shine?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Maelstrom Wanderer is a hell of a
druggeneral.GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
All the draw of Blue, the crazy LD and effects of Red, and the giant creatures shenanigans of Green.
If I had to choose the top two color combos, it would be RUG and UWB.
I guess that's the problem - they're all build-around. They, not the colors, define the strategy of the deck. Wanderer is hurt durr topdeck manipulation shenanigans, Animar is creature combo, and Riku is some variety of spell-sling value town. I'm not super into any of those, which is probably why I haven't ended up playing a RUG deck yet.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
That said, RUG's strength in general is all about being explosive. You don't usually run too much removal because W/B usually has all the good ones, so you just try ramp and combo out the table quickly.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
That's kind of what I figured (that some explosive combo was really all RUG can do super well in EDH).
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Maybe in a vacuum. In practice, tuned Animar, Soul of the Elements and Maelstrom Wanderer lists are at least as good as any The Mimeoplasm list.
Personally I love URG, but I stick to Intet, the Dreamer. She's strong enough for the folks I play with.
Ramp, draw, haste, and recursion are all pretty clutch in EDH. Add combo support and some niche tutoring and you can easily steam roll a table.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
So, just to play devil's advocate, here: Why would I want to go RUG over Bant for creature goodstuff when Bant gives...
- Amazing ETB and pseudo-ETB creatures like: Stoneforge Mystic, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, Sun Titan, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and Iona, Shield of Emeria;
- Awesome hate bears like Aethersworn Canonist, Grand Abolisher, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence;
- And stuff that enhances creatures like Restoration Angel, Ghostway, etc.
It just seems like red brings so little to the table. White's creatures seem better across the board in my mind. White brings better utility. Even the things red does "well" (i.e. land destruction), white does more efficiently.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to play RUG. I just can't figure out why I should do so over other color combos...
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
You also get some really sweet multicolor cards like Dack's Duplicate, which in my opinion is one of the best creatures printed for EDH in the past decade.
Haste does strike me as perhaps the biggest plus red could bring to a creature-based deck.
This is making me conclude that it's not that I don't like RUG in EDH, it's just that I don't like red in EDH. Threaten effects are of no interest to me. Why would I want to wait around to steal whatever my opponent might play? I'd rather play something better than them in the first place, and/or prevent them from playing anything at all
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Say it ain't so, Swift! I'm trying to find some super-awesome strength about RUG! : p
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
In that case, consider red's land destruction package: Wildfire, Burning of Xinye, Destructive Force, Thoughts of Ruin, Devastating Dreams, Boom // Bust, Epicenter, Tectonic Break, etc. Sure, Armageddon and Ravages of War are cheaper, but Wildfire-type effects can potentially wipe out opposing creatures and cripple opposing mana bases while leaving you in a decent position thanks to ramp. I'll make an LD version of my Intet deck if ever find a group where that's okay.
Stealing and copying effects are big part of red's shtick, but they're not the whole story.
Also, if you're in a blue-heavy meta and/or run a bunch of looting or color-changing effects, Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast can be clutch.
I started with an izzet deck (nin to be precise) and liked what it did, but felt it needed more ramp so added green and in came cards like cultivate. Eventually it mutated into the deck I have now.
On phasing:
One thing I would say Intet has over Animar, Riku and Wanderer... she's not quite as much kill-on-sight. Going tempo-control voltron approach with Intet could definitely work if you throw some topdeck manipulation into the mix - some heavy-duty 'most power for my buck' equipment/auras, bit of protection, ramp/draw, counterspells, cap it off with Sleep and Wildfire variants to drive the damage home and get more free spells.
Yeah, it's not the easiest win by any stretch of the imagination... but I would imagine more fun than yet another Wanderer or Animar.
As for colors, red is pretty invaluable in 'big things beat' aggro approach - haste, double strike (though this is also white), damage-based sweeps (that leave your big dragons and such alive, usually), wheels and other red goodies here and there.
Damia and Mimeoplasm decks are better than Riku/Animar/Wanderer decks, even if as standalone cards riku/animar/wanderer are stronger. That's how big the advantage is for getting B instead of R.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)