Hi folks. Just got my box of Return to Ravnica and going through it seems like there are lots of good cards for EDH. IMO Golgari has the biggest immediate boost, but maybe thats because a friend has been beating me down with Jarad
What are your thoughts? I pulled a Jace but don't think I will use him. I like the Fact of Fiction ability but feel like there are better cards to use...
I don't see too many staples in RtR, but I do have a rather narrow view of the term staple. Staples are (to me) cards like Primeval Titan or Eternal Witness that are just generically powerful enough to be played in almost every deck in the colors. They're good enough that they don't have to be particularly thematic or synergistic to make the cut. The Shocklands are obviously staples since they were staples before the reprint. Cyclonic Rift, Chromatic Lantern, and Supreme Verdict are cards that have the potential to be staples.
That's not to say that I don't love RtR because there are a ton of very playable cards in this set.
Dreadbore would be amazing if it was instant speed, but it's still quite good as is.
Grave Betrayal reminds me of Debtors' Knell. It's a really powerful enchantment at a really high mana cost. It'll be a magnet for removal, but sticking it can be crazy.
I'm not even going through the whole set and I've already found plenty of playable cards. More competitive metas will find fewer useful cards, but for more casual groups this set is great.
That and Vandalblast are really the only cards I see being "staples" since most of the other good cards don't really do what they do better than other cards out there.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots will be a popular (staple?) RB general now since he provides a unique ability that's actually well costed and good - even if cost reduction is a pretty bleh ability.
That and Vandalblast are really the only cards I see being "staples" since most of the other good cards don't really do what they do better than other cards out there.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots will be a popular (staple?) RB general now since he provides a unique ability that's actually well costed and good - even if cost reduction is a pretty bleh ability.
Very true. I can see people misusing the term "staple".
Chomatic Lantern is going to find a spot in pretty much all of my 3+ color decks. A lot of them would rather have smaller colored ramp and fixing in the 3 slot than colorless ramp.
Cyclonic Rift in most decks that can make use of Upheaval, which is a ton of blue decks, it seems.
All the good new control and removal spells - Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore, Detention Sphere, probably a few of the charms, probably at least Izzet Charm and Golgari Charm, they both seem useful - but some of the guildier stuff like Sundering Growth will see play in a few archetypes, but won't be universal staples. Rakdos Charm can be an instant win against some explosive aggressive strategies that don't exist as much elsewhere. "I make 5 billion tokens," "I Rakdos Charm for 5 billion."
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice seems like a popular general, though with plenty of combination in those two colors.
Grove of the Guardian is my pick for sleeper EDH hit of the set. I know a ton of players who love (basically) uncounterable land spell men, and this seems reasonably priced. (Or maybe I just think it's a fun card.)
I'm sure I'm missing some.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
Quote from slipknot72102 »
This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I think that the card people will enjoy the most is Guild Feud. There are a lot of creature-based decks out there, and this gives you the top three cards to work with.
I can't wait to use this card, because it won't be hard to tell which deck is playing less/underpowered creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have 15 EDH decks...sorta kills the 'I only need one of a card' aspect of the format.
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
If you're more into the finance section of the game, I write on Fridays for MTGPrice.com.
Let's just put it this way:
I opened a box and half the rares went straight into one of my 4 decks with another two being traded for my friends Izzet-edh.
There's something about "staple" and "strictly better".
Rogue's Passage for Voltron decks... maybe? IDK most of the voltron generals naturally get evasion from their equipment/auras/wtv anyway, but it just costs a land slot.
Jarad's Orders seems staple-worthy in even decks with a passing recursion theme.
Transguild Promenade - is a functional reprint of a card that's already a staple, so it too is one.
Some of the charms have a chance to become staples. They can fit into more decks than some of the Alara ones, and at least one of them is considered a staple (the Bant one, I can't rmemeber it's name off the top of my head)
Naturally, the Shocklands, but to some they already were.
No love for Deathrite Shaman in here? Quite the solid one drop if you ask me.
Also you'd be crazy not to play Chromatic Lantern if you are in 3 or 5 colors. I'd probably rather play it than any mana rock not named Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt or Grim Monolith. Definitely a format staple.
Testing this out myself; it seems really powerful outside of Green, and it kills Top if they ever use it to draw a card, along with hindering some of the tutors that put cards on top the library.
I don't see Supreme Verdict becoming a staple. Sure, it's a 4cc sweeper, and it can't be countered... but nobody plays Day of Judgement, and I don't think adding a color and making it uncounterable will change that fact. (Some may drop it in because it's cool, new, and the box promo, of course.) Give me Wrath of God any day.
For decks which can already manage their colors well (such as non-budget 3 color decks), I don't think Chromatic Lantern will be a hit either. As a 3-drop mana rock, I'd want it to do more than just a single mana (Worn Powerstone or Coalition Relic for example), or be easier to keep around (Darksteel Ingot). Sure, in a deck which has trouble fixing its color (such as many 5 color decks), it'll be useful. I don't plan on sticking it in any of my existing decks, though.
Codex Shredder is interesting. I think is too much for a regrowth in most cases, but I may be proven wrong. I did put it to good use in the prerelease (and I did regrowth my Grove of the Guardian in one game).
Collective Blessing is probably the best anthem ever printed. I'm strongly considering it for my Ghave deck, and I don't run anthems in there...
Cyclonic Rift is, of course, one of the best bounce spells printed to date. There is very little reason to not run this card.
Deathrite Shaman was absolutely amazing for me in the prerelease (especially combined with Codex Shredder -- he dealt 16 life loss to an opponent one game all on his own!). In a multiplayer format with fetchlands and graveyard shenanigans, I expect it to do well, too. The only problem I foresee is he'll catch flak in passing from wide-area damage effects and sweepers that weren't even meant for him.
Rest in Peace is the new Leyline of the Void. True, it affects you as well, but it also prevents tokens from triggering "dies" abilities, which the Leyline (and Planar Void) doesn't do.
Underworld Connections is another Phyrexian Arena with the upsides of being optional and being usable multiple times per turn cycle in some cases (Seedborn Muse, Rings of Brighthearth, etc.), and the downsides of effectively costing an additional mana and being vulnerable to Strip Mine and friends.
I can see the above being run in EDH. I think Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll are rather overrated, since both effects are rather sub-par imo in the format, unless the decks you are running them against are cutthroat
Vandalblast is a great card, though I don't know if it will become a "staple".
I don't understand how it could not become a staple in mono red or at least decks with red in them? It's not like red has an incredible amount of bonker power-house cards to choose from.
Testing this out myself; it seems really powerful outside of Green, and it kills Top if they ever use it to draw a card, along with hindering some of the tutors that put cards on top the library.
Yes, I missed that, doy - I meant to put it in with the original post.
I don't understand how it could not become a staple in mono red or at least decks with red in them? It's not like red has an incredible amount of bonker power-house cards to choose from.
I see it on par whith Shattering Spree, too. But I don't really consider Shattering Spree to be a staple, even for red.
Of course, that /could/ be my anti-red bias speaking. But even above all those mentioned, I'd rather run Into the Core.
Also, in my meta, at least, you'll see a Gauntlet of Power, a Font of Mythos, Extraplanar Lens or something else that could help me. I'll be running it it a few of my decks with red in them, but hardly all.
Yeah and I definitely understand where you're coming from. I'm not a huge fan of red either nor do I play it, but I do know that with red, you kinda sometimes gotta take what you can get.
The only true staple in this set is Cyclonic Rift . The flexible mana cost and stupidly powerful, universally useful effect demands its addition to any deck that runs Blue. The fact that it's basically Into the Roil early game is frosting on the proverbial cake. Delicious.
Vandalblast is simply amazing, and I won't argue with anyone labeling it a staple. I personally think the effect draws too much hate to be considered a true staple, but feel free to disagree. A powerful card with a splashable mana cost, and it can be used on a single target. Will see extensive play.
Chromatic Lantern will see heavy play in tri-colored decks and 5 color decks. Mono-color won't run it at all, so I'm hesitant to call it a staple, but a strong argument can be made that it is. Sol Ring this is not, but for any deck which is running three or more colors, this is your next best mana rock. My opinion? Borderline staple.
Supreme Verdict is like the previous card, in that it's too narrow to be called a staple, but you're going to use it in W/U control decks. Period. This replaces Day of Judgment if one needs to be cut. Borderline staple.
Speaking of Azorius, Detention Sphere is almost strictly better than Oblivion Ring - the only thing "worse" is the slightly more restrictive mana cost. Will the mana cost ever be a problem in the real world? No. Ring isn't staple, so this isn't either - but it's really damn good regardless.
I think I can make a strong case for Epic Experiment being borderline staple, but time will articulate this better than I can type.
What are your thoughts? I pulled a Jace but don't think I will use him. I like the Fact of Fiction ability but feel like there are better cards to use...
That's not to say that I don't love RtR because there are a ton of very playable cards in this set.
Rakdos Charm, Izzet Charm, Selesnya Charm, and Azorius Charm are all very playable.
Nivix Guildmage, Hypersonic Dragon, Epic Experiment, Guttersnipe, and Goblin Electromancer are all great in spellslinger decks.
Angel of Serenity is great in Mono-White and Boros decks that tend to lack any kind of creature recursion.
Four of the five new generals are very good (I'm not big on Trostani).
Armada Wurm's probably gonna be better in Standard than in EDH, but it's still bringing a lot of power to the table for a pretty low cost.
Corpsejack Menace and Death's Presence are very playable in decks like Ghave, Guru of Spores or Kresh the Bloodbraided.
Detention Sphere is an O-Ring that brutalizes tokens.
Dreadbore would be amazing if it was instant speed, but it's still quite good as is.
Grave Betrayal reminds me of Debtors' Knell. It's a really powerful enchantment at a really high mana cost. It'll be a magnet for removal, but sticking it can be crazy.
I'm not even going through the whole set and I've already found plenty of playable cards. More competitive metas will find fewer useful cards, but for more casual groups this set is great.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
That and Vandalblast are really the only cards I see being "staples" since most of the other good cards don't really do what they do better than other cards out there.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots will be a popular (staple?) RB general now since he provides a unique ability that's actually well costed and good - even if cost reduction is a pretty bleh ability.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Very true. I can see people misusing the term "staple".
Cyclonic Rift in most decks that can make use of Upheaval, which is a ton of blue decks, it seems.
All the good new control and removal spells - Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore, Detention Sphere, probably a few of the charms, probably at least Izzet Charm and Golgari Charm, they both seem useful - but some of the guildier stuff like Sundering Growth will see play in a few archetypes, but won't be universal staples. Rakdos Charm can be an instant win against some explosive aggressive strategies that don't exist as much elsewhere. "I make 5 billion tokens," "I Rakdos Charm for 5 billion."
Corpsejack Menace should become a staple in Ghave.
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice seems like a popular general, though with plenty of combination in those two colors.
Grove of the Guardian is my pick for sleeper EDH hit of the set. I know a ton of players who love (basically) uncounterable land spell men, and this seems reasonably priced. (Or maybe I just think it's a fun card.)
I'm sure I'm missing some.
I can't wait to use this card, because it won't be hard to tell which deck is playing less/underpowered creatures.
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
If you're more into the finance section of the game, I write on Fridays for MTGPrice.com.
I opened a box and half the rares went straight into one of my 4 decks with another two being traded for my friends Izzet-edh.
Rogue's Passage for Voltron decks... maybe? IDK most of the voltron generals naturally get evasion from their equipment/auras/wtv anyway, but it just costs a land slot.
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
Cyclonic Rift is arguably the best mass-bounce blue's ever seen, so yes, it will be a staple.
Supreme Verdict will see staple-worthy play.
Jarad's Orders seems staple-worthy in even decks with a passing recursion theme.
Transguild Promenade - is a functional reprint of a card that's already a staple, so it too is one.
Some of the charms have a chance to become staples. They can fit into more decks than some of the Alara ones, and at least one of them is considered a staple (the Bant one, I can't rmemeber it's name off the top of my head)
Naturally, the Shocklands, but to some they already were.
Codex Shredder is a darkhorse candidate. It does something that's not really common (colourless recursion), and lots of colours can recur it, itself (Argivian Restoration, Goblin Welder, Beacon of Unrest, and white and green, of course. Oh, and Trading Post).
Vandalblast is a great card, though I don't know if it will become a "staple". Same with Rogue's Passage
Some "must-haves" in the right decks, but hardly format staples: Corpsejack Menace (anything with +1+1 counters), Cryptborn Horror (group slug), Death's Presence (maybe), Deathrite Shaman, Dryad Militant, Epic Experiment (it will be a very, very narrow deck, but broken in it), Grave Betrayal (100%), Hypersonic Dragon, some of the guildmages, Martial Law + Sphere of Safety (control. I can see this being in desk running Propaganda effects), Mercurial Chemister, Rakdos, Lord of Riots (group slug just got a new general, in fact), Rest in Peace (most white decks have some recursion, themselves), Soul Tithe (I can see this getting more play than people are giving it credit for).
And, naturally, the planeswalkers.
Angel of Serenity
Rest in Peace
Worldspine Wurm
Cyclonic Rift
Grave Betrayal
Underworld Connections
Vandalblast
Utvara Hellkite
Mizzium Mortars
Chromatic Lantern
Rogue's Passage
Vraska, the Unseen
Dreadbore
Supreme Verdict
Nivix Guildmage
Other cards I'd consider running in regular EDH:
Firemind's Foresight
Epic Experiment
Basically any populate card
Jace, Architect of Thought
Izzet Charm
Izzet Keyrune
Sphere of Safety
Urban Burgeoning
Ultimate Price
Jarad's Orders
Skull Rend
Rakdos's Return
All five guildleaders, but particularly Jarad and Rakdos
Sphinx's Revelation
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Also you'd be crazy not to play Chromatic Lantern if you are in 3 or 5 colors. I'd probably rather play it than any mana rock not named Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt or Grim Monolith. Definitely a format staple.
Testing this out myself; it seems really powerful outside of Green, and it kills Top if they ever use it to draw a card, along with hindering some of the tutors that put cards on top the library.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
For decks which can already manage their colors well (such as non-budget 3 color decks), I don't think Chromatic Lantern will be a hit either. As a 3-drop mana rock, I'd want it to do more than just a single mana (Worn Powerstone or Coalition Relic for example), or be easier to keep around (Darksteel Ingot). Sure, in a deck which has trouble fixing its color (such as many 5 color decks), it'll be useful. I don't plan on sticking it in any of my existing decks, though.
Codex Shredder is interesting. I think is too much for a regrowth in most cases, but I may be proven wrong. I did put it to good use in the prerelease (and I did regrowth my Grove of the Guardian in one game).
Collective Blessing is probably the best anthem ever printed. I'm strongly considering it for my Ghave deck, and I don't run anthems in there...
Cyclonic Rift is, of course, one of the best bounce spells printed to date. There is very little reason to not run this card.
Deathrite Shaman was absolutely amazing for me in the prerelease (especially combined with Codex Shredder -- he dealt 16 life loss to an opponent one game all on his own!). In a multiplayer format with fetchlands and graveyard shenanigans, I expect it to do well, too. The only problem I foresee is he'll catch flak in passing from wide-area damage effects and sweepers that weren't even meant for him.
Rest in Peace is the new Leyline of the Void. True, it affects you as well, but it also prevents tokens from triggering "dies" abilities, which the Leyline (and Planar Void) doesn't do.
Underworld Connections is another Phyrexian Arena with the upsides of being optional and being usable multiple times per turn cycle in some cases (Seedborn Muse, Rings of Brighthearth, etc.), and the downsides of effectively costing an additional mana and being vulnerable to Strip Mine and friends.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Firemind's Foresight
Rogue's Passage
Detention Sphere
Epic Experiment
Sphinx's Revelation
Cyclonic Rift
Mizzium Mortars
Supreme Verdict
Jarad's Orders
Skull Rend
all the charms
all the Keyrunes
Rest in Peace
Soul Tithe
I can see the above being run in EDH. I think Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll are rather overrated, since both effects are rather sub-par imo in the format, unless the decks you are running them against are cutthroat
I don't understand how it could not become a staple in mono red or at least decks with red in them? It's not like red has an incredible amount of bonker power-house cards to choose from.
I see this card being on the same lines of Shattering Spree and Shattering Pulse and they both see play as well.
Yes, I missed that, doy - I meant to put it in with the original post.
I see it on par whith Shattering Spree, too. But I don't really consider Shattering Spree to be a staple, even for red.
Of course, that /could/ be my anti-red bias speaking. But even above all those mentioned, I'd rather run Into the Core.
Also, in my meta, at least, you'll see a Gauntlet of Power, a Font of Mythos, Extraplanar Lens or something else that could help me. I'll be running it it a few of my decks with red in them, but hardly all.
Apparently it's more like "Staple = every playable card that might make a deck but would most likely be card #120 in every deck I build."
I suspect people are just giddy and see new stuff... new is always way more exciting.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Vandalblast is simply amazing, and I won't argue with anyone labeling it a staple. I personally think the effect draws too much hate to be considered a true staple, but feel free to disagree. A powerful card with a splashable mana cost, and it can be used on a single target. Will see extensive play.
Chromatic Lantern will see heavy play in tri-colored decks and 5 color decks. Mono-color won't run it at all, so I'm hesitant to call it a staple, but a strong argument can be made that it is. Sol Ring this is not, but for any deck which is running three or more colors, this is your next best mana rock. My opinion? Borderline staple.
Supreme Verdict is like the previous card, in that it's too narrow to be called a staple, but you're going to use it in W/U control decks. Period. This replaces Day of Judgment if one needs to be cut. Borderline staple.
Speaking of Azorius, Detention Sphere is almost strictly better than Oblivion Ring - the only thing "worse" is the slightly more restrictive mana cost. Will the mana cost ever be a problem in the real world? No. Ring isn't staple, so this isn't either - but it's really damn good regardless.
I think I can make a strong case for Epic Experiment being borderline staple, but time will articulate this better than I can type.
122 Overgrown Tomb
87 Hallowed Fountain
73 Steam Vents
70 Blood Crypt
44 Pithing Needle
17 Cancel
9 Seek the Horizon
8 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
8 Arrest
5 Chromatic Lantern
4 Angel of Serenity
4 Mind Rot
3 Rakdos, Lord of Riots
3 Inspiration
DECKS
Ertai | Squee | Roon | Aurelia
USEFUL RESOURCES
Commander Decklist Database
Statistical breakdown of the commander metagame
50 Commanders / 50 Decks
27 Colors / 27 Decks