I have a G/W token deck with the general slot in limbo. I Used to run Rhys the Redeemed but I was mad that he died so easily and I wouldn't get him online efficiently enough. So I switched him out for Sigarda, Host of Herons. I know, weird weird. But I like her as a alternitive win-con. But now I'm wondering if I should put Rhys back at the helm, or have Tolsimir Wolfblood, or keep Sigarda Host of Herons. Another whacky thought was have Captain Sisay at the helm and make the deck into a toolbox with a token theme. What do you guys think? My deck is in my signature (: thanks guys!
If you're going for a primary token theme, Rhys is the way to go and you just have to deal with the fact that he's going to rightly draw as much hate as possible. If you want to stick with G/W tokens but not get hated as much, Tolsimir is a good choice. Sissay is best as a toolbox general as others have said, and should draw a lot of removal as well.
If you want to use Sisay, make Teneb, the Harvester your general and use black and green tutors to find Sisay. Black gives you tons of great options and powerful legends, and Teneb and Volrath's Stronghold, which you should tutor for with Sisay ASAP, make sure she sticks around.
Of course, at this point, you're hardly playing tokens anymore. On second thought, don't use Sisay. Hazezon Tamar sounds good though.
BTW, one of my favorite token generals is Azusa. Just cram the deck full of ramp, mana doublers, token doublers, Overruns, and as many overcosted token generators as possible. She gets especially silly with Gelatinous Genesis.
Hmmm everyone is suggesting adding another color. What's wrong with G/W? Does it not have enough support? I'd like to stay in the realm of G/W. I may run Tolsimir for now, but if someone can convince me to run Rhys, then I may put him back at the helm
If you want to play G/W tokens... there's really no option other than Rhys. He's Green and White and does stuff with tokens. I've got no idea why you'd go looking for a different general. What's going to better for a token deck than doubling your tokens? So what if he dies? Recast him. He's cheap.
If you want to play G/W tokens... there's really no option other than Rhys. He's Green and White and does stuff with tokens. I've got no idea why you'd go looking for a different general. What's going to better for a token deck than doubling your tokens? So what if he dies? Recast him. He's cheap.
Good point I suppose I'm just looking for some change. But you're right. Thanks everyone!
Don't cast Rhys one or two turns into the game. He always seems to come out immediately with my friend's deck and I always scratch my head because he gets popped right off, and then costs three to recast. Wait, get some protection out (Ascetisism, Privileged Position, and then cast him in a more favorable situation. I think a lot or Rhys players get frustrated he gets popped so fast, but he's tiny, casts early, and of course dies quickly.
Hmmm everyone is suggesting adding another color. What's wrong with G/W? Does it not have enough support? I'd like to stay in the realm of G/W. I may run Tolsimir for now, but if someone can convince me to run Rhys, then I may put him back at the helm
Why is rhys getting killed? You should be casting when you need him, not the first moment that you can. By that time you should be able to recast him a few times.
As for 3 colors, they will add more variety to a token deck. Red for more tokens, haste and extra combat phases. Black for grave pact, butcher of malakir, and sac outlets that do some fun things. Blue for... well I'm not quite sure how blue synergizes with tokens.
The point is you can either add more variety with 3 colors, or add more tokens. Totally depends on what you want from this deck.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Hmmm everyone is suggesting adding another color. What's wrong with G/W? Does it not have enough support? I'd like to stay in the realm of G/W. I may run Tolsimir for now, but if someone can convince me to run Rhys, then I may put him back at the helm
The problem with Tolsimir is that although he's a decent Glorious Anthem, he doesn't interact well with some classic token support cards - namely Doubling Season and Parallel Lives. Since Voja is legendary, you shut off his secondary ability while either one of those is in play.
On top of that, Rhys just creates a whole lot more card advantage for a much cheaper price.
I like Rhys because he's cheap enough to come down early and give you some token production if you're off to a really slow start, he can come down late and double your tokens, or anytime in between if you need to recover from a Wrath or just need a bit more oomph. Yeah, he's probably going to die but that's because he's really strong and being a 1CMC general, he can afford to die. Paying 3 or 5 for Rhys definitely isn't unreasonable.
If you don't dig Rhys then I'd recommend Tolsimir. He's a good, strong anthem and he can make a larger-than-average token (though it does die with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives[/c] out). He's a good way to take your 1/1 tokens and make them a bit more powerful but I just don't think he does quite as much as Rhys.
After that, if you want to stay in G/W you're gonna have to play a more generic general. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means you're not gonna be getting any support for your token theme from your general. Ultimately, my opinion is that you should choose the general you enjoy most. Even if you think Rhys or Sigarda is better, pick Tolsimir if you like him more. If you think Sigarda is an unideal token general but you just love her, then let her helm your deck.
I actually disagree with a lot of the players suggesting to wait and cast Rhys until you have protection. If you cast Rhys T1 and make a token T3, you're forcing other people to respond to your general without expending any card advantage. Should you make it to T6 (excluding any other cards that you may have cast that fit in your curve) you're now doubling the 3 tokens that you made every turn FORCING your opponents to wrath. If they don't, you won without losing any card advantage and you can drop any of your win cons and alpha strike for lethal. If you say "well they blew up Rhys before this happened", that's all well and good. That's that much less removal they have access to and you did nothing except play land and your general so you likely have a full grip of cards.
I think this is a concept not a lot of players fully understand when playing Rhys, and why I feel a lot of players have trouble playing / building their Rhys decks. If you cast Rhys on T1, T3-6 absolutely must be generating tokens if Rhys is on the field (unless you come across a situation where you wouldn't have 6 land by T6). Playing Rhys and then not using his ability is paramount to losing your board position and card advantage. Rhys' first ability is also terrible. The mana for the ability is high for what it does, and the ability is slow. The only time his first ability is useful is during early turns of the game when you can generate advantage, or when you have no other moves whatsoever. The only time I would cast Rhys after that point is to double up on my tokens.
Though my problem with him at that point is he needs to tap, so you lose a turn. Then you double your tokens, but they don't have haste and you lose a turn. So it takes 2 turns and 6 mana just to be able to double the tokens you have available and swing with them? This is EDH where more than likely if you have the board position where doubling your tokens is going to be a problem, people are going to wrath and you will lose Rhys again. If you make it to the third turn with a fair amount of tokens available, you need to be able to kill someone with some sort of overrun, or you're going to lose your position and likely the game.
I enjoy Rhys and used to have a Rhys deck, but the above is exactly why I think Hazezon is a better general. While he may cost 7, if he resolves your opponents are going to be in trouble. Your tokens aren't on the field for an entire turn, so even if your opponents wrath you lose nothing. You have access to red and therefore better haste outlets, some great token generators (dragonlair spider, dragon broodmother, firecat blitz), some other win cons like warp world, tears of rage, and shared animosity.
If you like GW, definitely stick with Rhys. Though you need to use him wisely in order to succeed. Rhys is the king of overextension and slow token generation. You must not allow this, and you need to prevent your creatures from getting blown up at all cost. Dauntless Escort is your best friend, abuse him! Take a look at Donald's list if you haven't already. There's good info there, and his list is great.
nurse.jason is spot on. With Rhys, all eyes will be on you. So you either go early or late. As jason said, if you go early you force early removal, which will ultimately help you later on when they run out of removal. Waiting only lets them capitalize on a *** wiping out everything you've done over the past few turns. A lot of people playing Rhys will overextend or get upset that he eats removal so much. Build like Rhys is a 5/7 drop and you'll be better off.
I actually disagree with a lot of the players suggesting to wait and cast Rhys until you have protection. If you cast Rhys T1 and make a token T3, you're forcing other people to respond to your general without expending any card advantage. Should you make it to T6 (excluding any other cards that you may have cast that fit in your curve) you're now doubling the 3 tokens that you made every turn FORCING your opponents to wrath. If they don't, you won without losing any card advantage and you can drop any of your win cons and alpha strike for lethal. If you say "well they blew up Rhys before this happened", that's all well and good. That's that much less removal they have access to and you did nothing except play land and your general so you likely have a full grip of cards.
I think this is a concept not a lot of players fully understand when playing Rhys, and why I feel a lot of players have trouble playing / building their Rhys decks. If you cast Rhys on T1, T3-6 absolutely must be generating tokens if Rhys is on the field (unless you come across a situation where you wouldn't have 6 land by T6). Playing Rhys and then not using his ability is paramount to losing your board position and card advantage. Rhys' first ability is also terrible. The mana for the ability is high for what it does, and the ability is slow. The only time his first ability is useful is during early turns of the game when you can generate advantage, or when you have no other moves whatsoever. The only time I would cast Rhys after that point is to double up on my tokens.
Though my problem with him at that point is he needs to tap, so you lose a turn. Then you double your tokens, but they don't have haste and you lose a turn. So it takes 2 turns and 6 mana just to be able to double the tokens you have available and swing with them? This is EDH where more than likely if you have the board position where doubling your tokens is going to be a problem, people are going to wrath and you will lose Rhys again. If you make it to the third turn with a fair amount of tokens available, you need to be able to kill someone with some sort of overrun, or you're going to lose your position and likely the game.
I enjoy Rhys and used to have a Rhys deck, but the above is exactly why I think Hazezon is a better general. While he may cost 7, if he resolves your opponents are going to be in trouble. Your tokens aren't on the field for an entire turn, so even if your opponents wrath you lose nothing. You have access to red and therefore better haste outlets, some great token generators (dragonlair spider, dragon broodmother, firecat blitz), some other win cons like warp world, tears of rage, and shared animosity.
If you like GW, definitely stick with Rhys. Though you need to use him wisely in order to succeed. Rhys is the king of overextension and slow token generation. You must not allow this, and you need to prevent your creatures from getting blown up at all cost. Dauntless Escort is your best friend, abuse him! Take a look at Donald's list if you haven't already. There's good info there, and his list is great.
you just blew my mind. This is exactly the thing I needed! Thank you man!! And thank you everyone who helped me out with this! I wanna quote this... Somewhere, I'll figure out where
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BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
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GR Atarka, World Render
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WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
or better yet add red for hazezon tamaar
sigarda is just a generic good stuff general
if you go with sisay, tokens will be a subtheme not a theme
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Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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Personally, I always like to go a B route with tokens as I love Grave Pact & Co. Ghave is the poster-child for token strategies in the Necra wedge.
stuff
Of course, at this point, you're hardly playing tokens anymore. On second thought, don't use Sisay. Hazezon Tamar sounds good though.
BTW, one of my favorite token generals is Azusa. Just cram the deck full of ramp, mana doublers, token doublers, Overruns, and as many overcosted token generators as possible. She gets especially silly with Gelatinous Genesis.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Good point I suppose I'm just looking for some change. But you're right. Thanks everyone!
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Old Trade Thread
Powerdouble - Shrine of Burning Rage wins games you have no business winning.
Tanion - Humans are basically short bus Allies. Lame.
Why is rhys getting killed? You should be casting when you need him, not the first moment that you can. By that time you should be able to recast him a few times.
As for 3 colors, they will add more variety to a token deck. Red for more tokens, haste and extra combat phases. Black for grave pact, butcher of malakir, and sac outlets that do some fun things. Blue for... well I'm not quite sure how blue synergizes with tokens.
The point is you can either add more variety with 3 colors, or add more tokens. Totally depends on what you want from this deck.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
The problem with Tolsimir is that although he's a decent Glorious Anthem, he doesn't interact well with some classic token support cards - namely Doubling Season and Parallel Lives. Since Voja is legendary, you shut off his secondary ability while either one of those is in play.
On top of that, Rhys just creates a whole lot more card advantage for a much cheaper price.
stuff
If you don't dig Rhys then I'd recommend Tolsimir. He's a good, strong anthem and he can make a larger-than-average token (though it does die with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives[/c] out). He's a good way to take your 1/1 tokens and make them a bit more powerful but I just don't think he does quite as much as Rhys.
After that, if you want to stay in G/W you're gonna have to play a more generic general. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means you're not gonna be getting any support for your token theme from your general. Ultimately, my opinion is that you should choose the general you enjoy most. Even if you think Rhys or Sigarda is better, pick Tolsimir if you like him more. If you think Sigarda is an unideal token general but you just love her, then let her helm your deck.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
I think this is a concept not a lot of players fully understand when playing Rhys, and why I feel a lot of players have trouble playing / building their Rhys decks. If you cast Rhys on T1, T3-6 absolutely must be generating tokens if Rhys is on the field (unless you come across a situation where you wouldn't have 6 land by T6). Playing Rhys and then not using his ability is paramount to losing your board position and card advantage. Rhys' first ability is also terrible. The mana for the ability is high for what it does, and the ability is slow. The only time his first ability is useful is during early turns of the game when you can generate advantage, or when you have no other moves whatsoever. The only time I would cast Rhys after that point is to double up on my tokens.
Though my problem with him at that point is he needs to tap, so you lose a turn. Then you double your tokens, but they don't have haste and you lose a turn. So it takes 2 turns and 6 mana just to be able to double the tokens you have available and swing with them? This is EDH where more than likely if you have the board position where doubling your tokens is going to be a problem, people are going to wrath and you will lose Rhys again. If you make it to the third turn with a fair amount of tokens available, you need to be able to kill someone with some sort of overrun, or you're going to lose your position and likely the game.
I enjoy Rhys and used to have a Rhys deck, but the above is exactly why I think Hazezon is a better general. While he may cost 7, if he resolves your opponents are going to be in trouble. Your tokens aren't on the field for an entire turn, so even if your opponents wrath you lose nothing. You have access to red and therefore better haste outlets, some great token generators (dragonlair spider, dragon broodmother, firecat blitz), some other win cons like warp world, tears of rage, and shared animosity.
If you like GW, definitely stick with Rhys. Though you need to use him wisely in order to succeed. Rhys is the king of overextension and slow token generation. You must not allow this, and you need to prevent your creatures from getting blown up at all cost. Dauntless Escort is your best friend, abuse him! Take a look at Donald's list if you haven't already. There's good info there, and his list is great.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
you just blew my mind. This is exactly the thing I needed! Thank you man!! And thank you everyone who helped me out with this! I wanna quote this... Somewhere, I'll figure out where
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH