The second of two recent developments in my continual Azusa, Lost but Seeking deckbuilding experience has been the question of artifact ramp (i.e. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt). Some people really to be for them, for their ability to accelerate you into a t2 Azusa, which is a pretty ridiculous advantage. My problem with these cards is that outside of that possibility for an early advantage, they are pretty much a dead card. Topdecking either one of these cards late game is a pretty deflating experience. Anywho, I'm wondering what all you other Azusa players, and other players in general think.
If you're truly worried about topdecking them, run things that offer draw power themselves: Mind Stone, Dreamstone Hedron. However, I think the possibility of playing a turn 2 Azusa is worth the inclusion of Sol Ring at least.
If you're truly worried about topdecking them, run things that offer draw power themselves: Mind Stone, Dreamstone Hedron. However, I think the possibility of playing a turn 2 Azusa is worth the inclusion of Sol Ring at least.
I love both of them, and Thran Dynamo as well. Then again, I like explosive starts, with fast Primeval Titans, early Terastodon blowouts, and hasty Eldrazi to clean up a turn or two later.
At the very least, they diversify your manabase to protect against Armageddon.
I love both of them, and Thran Dynamo as well. Then again, I like explosive starts, with fast Primeval Titans, early Terastodon blowouts, and hasty Eldrazi to clean up a turn or two later.
At the very least, they diversify your manabase to protect against Armageddon.
I dunno if I could bring myself to run Dynamo, as it doesn't help me get an earlier Azusa. I could see running Mana Vault in its place, though.
Mana Crypt seems like an auto-inclusion. If a turn 2 Azusa is good, a turn 1 Azusa is BACKBREAKING. Imagine this chain of plays:
t1 Forest Mana Crypt Azusa forest forest
t2 Forest forest Green Sun's Zenith for Primeval Titan.
Sol Ring is every so slightly less good than Crypt, it doesn't allow for a t1 Azusa, but it does let you drop her on turn two, which leads to the near-certainty of having 8 mana available turn 3.
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Mana Crypt seems like an auto-inclusion. If a turn 2 Azusa is good, a turn 1 Azusa is BACKBREAKING. Imagine this chain of plays:
t1 Forest Mana Crypt Azusa forest forest
t2 Forest forest Green Sun's Zenith for Primeval Titan.
Sol Ring is every so slightly less good than Crypt, it doesn't allow for a t1 Azusa, but it does let you drop her on turn two, which leads to the near-certainty of having 8 mana available turn 3.
Aaaand then you're topdecking with 8 lands on board to everyone else's 2. Seems like a pretty big target on your head with no cards in hand to do anything about it. But, I guess you'll still be pulling ahead faster than anyone can do anything about with PTime on board...
Aaaand then you're topdecking with 8 lands on board to everyone else's 2. Seems like a pretty big target on your head with no cards in hand to do anything about it. But, I guess you'll still be pulling ahead faster than anyone can do anything about with PTime on board...
Well, when one of the lands Primetime grabs is Eye of Ugin, you're not topdecking for very long. Scrying Sheets is another good pull, letting you draw your top card if it's a basic (assuming you're running snow lands) and if it's not, you're probably drawing gas.
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the problem i had with the stones in my early builds, is that when they werent in the opener...they were utterly useless. half the time they were in the opener, i wished they were something else. so i bit the bullet and changed them for something else. never looked back.
the problem i had with the stones in my early builds, is that when they werent in the opener...they were utterly useless. half the time they were in the opener, i wished they were something else. so i bit the bullet and changed them for something else. never looked back.
You're still getting 2 mana for one card, and they accelerate you in case Azusa isn't around. I wouldn't call that useless.
Well, when one of the lands Primetime grabs is Eye of Ugin, you're not topdecking for very long. Scrying Sheets is another good pull, letting you draw your top card if it's a basic (assuming you're running snow lands) and if it's not, you're probably drawing gas.
Yeah... I've got to get myself a Mana Crypt. Wish they weren't $60+...
true, they do make extra mana, but they do not trigger landfall and they do not attack for huge chunks of dmg. avenger doesn't make tokens off of them, primeval cant fetch them, cant play them off the top with oracle and they do not draw you cards (excluding recycle interactions) and they do not search out threats. yes they pay for the spells/abilities that do, but you most likely had the mana to do that anyway.
i find the deck to be far more consistent without them. just my preference though. i have zero issues trading in a 1 card "speed boost" that i will see in my opener every so often for a business spell that will be good whenever i see it. especially in a deck that is faster then a good portion of stuff out there.
the problem i had with the stones in my early builds, is that when they werent in the opener...they were utterly useless. half the time they were in the opener, i wished they were something else. so i bit the bullet and changed them for something else. never looked back.
I'm beginning to think that no matter what the potential downsides may be if they aren't in your opening 7, the possibility of a t1 or t2 Azusa is just too good to be passed up.
there are other ways to get it though, with more functional cards. the GSZ > dryad arbor route, the crop rotation > ancient tomb (i wouldnt burn a CR on that line of play, but its an option), and the turn 2 gaea's touch > extra forest > sac touch for 2 mana and cast azusa.
three different scenarios, all using core cards. im not saying people are wrong for inclusion of it, just saying that i dont think they warrant slots.
end of the day, i feel every deck winds up with a few flex slots after you optimize it as much as you can. i would not consider the mana artifacts core cards, but i can see why people would want them in their flex slots.
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The second of two recent developments in my continual Azusa, Lost but Seeking deckbuilding experience has been the question of artifact ramp (i.e. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt). Some people really to be for them, for their ability to accelerate you into a t2 Azusa, which is a pretty ridiculous advantage. My problem with these cards is that outside of that possibility for an early advantage, they are pretty much a dead card. Topdecking either one of these cards late game is a pretty deflating experience. Anywho, I'm wondering what all you other Azusa players, and other players in general think.
Thanks!
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I suppose that running topdeck manipulation like Sensei's Divining Top, Mirri's Guile, and Sylvan Library along with some fetches to crack and shuffle the deck is a good option, too.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
At the very least, they diversify your manabase to protect against Armageddon.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
I dunno if I could bring myself to run Dynamo, as it doesn't help me get an earlier Azusa. I could see running Mana Vault in its place, though.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
t1 Forest Mana Crypt Azusa forest forest
t2 Forest forest Green Sun's Zenith for Primeval Titan.
Sol Ring is every so slightly less good than Crypt, it doesn't allow for a t1 Azusa, but it does let you drop her on turn two, which leads to the near-certainty of having 8 mana available turn 3.
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Aaaand then you're topdecking with 8 lands on board to everyone else's 2. Seems like a pretty big target on your head with no cards in hand to do anything about it. But, I guess you'll still be pulling ahead faster than anyone can do anything about with PTime on board...
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Well, when one of the lands Primetime grabs is Eye of Ugin, you're not topdecking for very long. Scrying Sheets is another good pull, letting you draw your top card if it's a basic (assuming you're running snow lands) and if it's not, you're probably drawing gas.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
You're still getting 2 mana for one card, and they accelerate you in case Azusa isn't around. I wouldn't call that useless.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Yeah... I've got to get myself a Mana Crypt. Wish they weren't $60+...
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Check eBay, you can sometimes get the white-bordered Portugese versions for closer to $50.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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i find the deck to be far more consistent without them. just my preference though. i have zero issues trading in a 1 card "speed boost" that i will see in my opener every so often for a business spell that will be good whenever i see it. especially in a deck that is faster then a good portion of stuff out there.
I'm beginning to think that no matter what the potential downsides may be if they aren't in your opening 7, the possibility of a t1 or t2 Azusa is just too good to be passed up.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
three different scenarios, all using core cards. im not saying people are wrong for inclusion of it, just saying that i dont think they warrant slots.
end of the day, i feel every deck winds up with a few flex slots after you optimize it as much as you can. i would not consider the mana artifacts core cards, but i can see why people would want them in their flex slots.