Perhaps drop either the damnation or the wrath of god...I highly doubt you will need 6 mass removals. Additionally, in only 2 colour control, I don't see the need for mana fixing, such as Urborg. Also, you could drop the signet, 24 lands or there abouts, should suffice.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
signets allow for turn 3 wrath's. and 6 is not to many at all, the whole point is to be able to wrath multiple times before dropping your fatty for the win. And house guard is for tutoring for Wrath, Damnation, Fetter's, Persecute. Dropped mortify's for vindicates. This deck is basically fader from Ravnica T2 with better cards.
the point is you don't need to sweep that many times. with 4 vindicate and fetters and angel of despair. you don't need 6 sweepers, you're better off throwing in Divinity of Pride or something.
My play group consists of white weenies, goblins, and many other mono color aggro deck. This deck often finds itself in multiplayer, hence why the six wraths are needed. Castigate will probably come out for gerrard's verdict, but persecute works very well considering most of the people I play against casually play mono color decks, otherwise they would come out for hymns or duresses.
think i should just turn this into a pseudo deadguy ale?
still, if you have 4 mana, I'd rather play 2 hymns or a hymn and a verdict. getting lands can actually be beneficial to you if you have so much removal.
Problem is I don't want to spend more than like 50-70 more dollars in this deck. Forgot how much Vindicate was, thats why it wasn't in here originally. and as for the planeswalker hes 10$ alone.
Updated the list a bit.
With that restriction in mind. What specific pluses/minuses would you say?
without the budget? I play mono black control, haven't really tried making a BW control deck before. Although if I did, the only card I'd really splash white for is Swords to Plowshares MAYBE and definitely Vindicate. if you want my MBC list I can post that.
No, with the budget in mind. Drop mortify for vindicates, Drop Castigate for gerrard's verdict. Dropped Persecute for hymns, not sure about about this because they aren't tutorable via dimir, but I need better creatures anyway. Suggestions?
Thats about 66$ right there, and maybe 20$ more at the very most.
you don't need to use the dimirs. you have arenas and 6 mass removal spells. you're fine. if you want tutoring, run Liliana Vess and like a Diabolic Tutor or Beseech the Queen
if you're on a budget, I suggest getting cards that you can use in variants like MBC. I found that long ago, I hated buying cards that only serve the purpose of one deck because I got bored of them fast lol
you don't need to use the dimirs. you have arenas and 6 mass removal spells. you're fine. if you want tutoring, run Liliana Vess and like a Diabolic Tutor or Beseech the Queen
if you're on a budget, I suggest getting cards that you can use in variants like MBC. I found that long ago, I hated buying cards that only serve the purpose of one deck because I got bored of them fast lol
well then you run into budget issues again. Lilianas are about 7 bucks I believe?
if you're really in a budget and you don't own vindicate, then drop those. those are really pricy. but don't buy a mid level replacement either, I'm always against that. if you're not going to buy the real deal, stick with cheap substitutes like Oblivion Ring then maybe later if you do want to make the deck better, then you can go for the real cards and not really lose anything.
well then you run into budget issues again. Lilianas are about 7 bucks I believe?
if you're really in a budget and you don't own vindicate, then drop those. those are really pricy. but don't buy a mid level replacement either, I'm always against that. if you're not going to buy the real deal, stick with cheap substitutes like Oblivion Ring then maybe later if you do want to make the deck better, then you can go for the real cards and not really lose anything.
updated deck list.
I can afford:
4x Vindicate
1x Lilliana
1x Demonic Tutor (friend probably has one anyway)
3x Gerrard's Verdict
and about 20 more dollars worth of cards. Trying to find better win conditions. I like debtor, akroma, lilliana, and the 2x angel of despairs, not really a fan of the skeletals or the exalted.
better fatties?
other specific spells I should put in? take out?
do you own the creatures you listed? exalted/akroma? and the lands?
do you plan on improving the deck with a bigger budget in the future? because, if not, I don't think you should commit so much of the budget into just a single card (4x Vindicate). they're not exactly MUST haves with no possible replacements. you're better off getting irreplaceable cards if you're tight.
do you own the creatures you listed? exalted/akroma? and the lands?
do you plan on improving the deck with a bigger budget in the future? because, if not, I don't think you should commit so much of the budget into just a single card (4x Vindicate). they're not exactly MUST haves with no possible replacements. you're better off getting irreplaceable cards if you're tight.
I have everything but the changes. Only things i don't have so far:
4x Vindicate
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Lilliana
3x Gerrard's Verdict
Liliana and the D Tutor are good cards to have, Verdicts are 50 cents each, so those aren't a problem, Hymns you own, so that's ok. Duress could be a card to get.
Tombstalker is a good win con. Oona, Queen of the Fae too, but that's really for MBC. I'm not a big fan of the white win cons, that's why I like MBC better. Divinity of Pride seems like one of your best bets for a budget BW win con. And even that can be in MBC lol
I think you should really decide what white cards you want to run, if you can't think of any, you may as well go mono black because so far the cards you're thinking, aren't cards mono black can't replace.
Now, there are of course many variations for MBC you can go with. But from what I've tested, Gatekeeper of Malakir is an auto-include imo. Never a dead card like edicts are sometimes (but they are still needed imo), acts as a chump blocker, an edict, and even a win con (yes I've won games swinging with this bad boy for 2 lol).
Phyrexian Arena needs to be a 4 of. This is the card you want to draw turn 3 besides a Gatekeeper if you're playing against aggro.
Tutor effects are well, not NEEDED but very good to have, whether that is from actual tutors in demonic/diabolic/beseech, or Liliana Vess, this will allow you to run some 1of cards that become really useful in specific situations like Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone to sweep enchantment/artifacts, which is your only option in black anyway. O stone isn't a must run, but if you run tutor effects, I'd run at least 1 N disk (sweeps everything and saves your walkers).
1of Volrath's Stronghold is a must if you run Gatekeeper or any creatures with effects that can recur (in my build, this applies to 4 gatekeepers and 3 braids).
Sorin Markov is a beast in MBC. 9/10 games, unless the board has gotten out of hand, I will want to drop him into play asap. Consider at least 1-2 of him. Not a must have card, but once you've played with him, I guarantee you will not drop him.
Alternate route (fun) I've tried is running Death Wish LOL. Looks ridiculous, but unless you're playing against burn, this card actually works. This allows you to set up a 1x everything in your sideboard for any situation without having to run possible dead cards main deck.
Discard spells in MBC I find are not a necessity. But they never hurt. I've considered dropping the Thoughtseizes, but I have no turn 1 move, so they haven't moved.
Contrary to popular belief, MBC does not need accel that uses up slots in your main deck like Dark Ritual UNLESS you're going a heavy discard route with 4x duress/thoughtseize and 4x hymn, Hypnotic Specter, etc. You do not want to topdeck a ritual late game when you need that winning Consume Spirit or something.
Chainer's Edict > Diabolic Edict almost always unless you're faced with a ton of manlands/hasties which can get a little annoying and hard to get rid of.
Consume Spirit is an auto-include as well. No argument there. Profane Command has been in and out of my deck, I find it OK but sometime's I really need that life gain.
I may have missed some other things I wanted to talk about, but I can't think of them right now lol.
EDIT: oh right, Oona is a good win con, I've had it as a 1of for a while, but I preferred Braids to break decks, annoy in multiplayer, having another card to interact with the stronghold, and also makes Sorin a bigger beast (Sorin + Braids in play with no answer from the opponent = gg always).
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Orzhov Basilica
6x Plains
6x Swamps
Creatures: 6
2x Angel of Despair
2x Skeletal Vampire
1x Exalted Angel
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Lilliana Ves
Spells: 18
3x Wrath of God
3x Damnation
3x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Vindicate
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Orzhov Signet
Enchantments: 7
3x Faith's Fetters
3x Phyrexian Arena
1x Debtor's Knell
And I think you have too many mass removal spells no?
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
Dark ritual
Incline to think that stronghold overseer is better then house guard
drop the persecutes for Hymn to Tourach or Duress/Thoughtseize if you want discard. 4 mana is better spent on removal or a threat. Gerrard's Verdict is good too.
think i should just turn this into a pseudo deadguy ale?
deadguy is just MBA with a white splash.
Thanks to .toRRent for the ATHF Mastodon Avatar.
-3 Persecute
-4 Castigate
+4 Gerrard's Verdict
+3 Hymn to Tourach
or?
and what should I drop signets for?
Phyrexian Totem isn't too bad.
What other changes would you suggest?
you need to reconsider your creature package. like most of it to be honest.
I also advocate Sorin Markov in any black colour control decks =) he's that good and he replenishes your life from the arenas
Updated the list a bit.
With that restriction in mind. What specific pluses/minuses would you say?
Thats about 66$ right there, and maybe 20$ more at the very most.
if you're on a budget, I suggest getting cards that you can use in variants like MBC. I found that long ago, I hated buying cards that only serve the purpose of one deck because I got bored of them fast lol
Vampire Nighthawk is a good creature. Budget options could include Shimian Specter which is actually pretty devastating sometimes. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade isn't bad but still 5 bucks.
-2 Dimir
+1 Lilianna
+1 Demonic Tutor
???
if you're really in a budget and you don't own vindicate, then drop those. those are really pricy. but don't buy a mid level replacement either, I'm always against that. if you're not going to buy the real deal, stick with cheap substitutes like Oblivion Ring then maybe later if you do want to make the deck better, then you can go for the real cards and not really lose anything.
updated deck list.
I can afford:
4x Vindicate
1x Lilliana
1x Demonic Tutor (friend probably has one anyway)
3x Gerrard's Verdict
and about 20 more dollars worth of cards. Trying to find better win conditions. I like debtor, akroma, lilliana, and the 2x angel of despairs, not really a fan of the skeletals or the exalted.
better fatties?
other specific spells I should put in? take out?
do you plan on improving the deck with a bigger budget in the future? because, if not, I don't think you should commit so much of the budget into just a single card (4x Vindicate). they're not exactly MUST haves with no possible replacements. you're better off getting irreplaceable cards if you're tight.
I have everything but the changes. Only things i don't have so far:
4x Vindicate
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Lilliana
3x Gerrard's Verdict
Tombstalker is a good win con. Oona, Queen of the Fae too, but that's really for MBC. I'm not a big fan of the white win cons, that's why I like MBC better. Divinity of Pride seems like one of your best bets for a budget BW win con. And even that can be in MBC lol
I think you should really decide what white cards you want to run, if you can't think of any, you may as well go mono black because so far the cards you're thinking, aren't cards mono black can't replace.
Lands: 24
4x Cabal Coffers
20x Swamp
Creatures:
2x Tombstalker
1x Oona, Queen of the Fae
Spells:
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Duress
4x Damnation
4x Diabolic Edict
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Dark Ritual
Enchantments:
1x Debtors Knell
3x Phyrexian Arena
additions/changes?
2 Tombstalker
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
//Planeswalkers//
3 Sorin Markov
1 Liliana Vess
//Other Spells//
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Damnation
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Thoughtseize
4 Chainer's Edict
2 Corrupt
3 Consume Spirit
3 Cabal Coffers
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
18 Swamp
Now, there are of course many variations for MBC you can go with. But from what I've tested, Gatekeeper of Malakir is an auto-include imo. Never a dead card like edicts are sometimes (but they are still needed imo), acts as a chump blocker, an edict, and even a win con (yes I've won games swinging with this bad boy for 2 lol).
Phyrexian Arena needs to be a 4 of. This is the card you want to draw turn 3 besides a Gatekeeper if you're playing against aggro.
Tutor effects are well, not NEEDED but very good to have, whether that is from actual tutors in demonic/diabolic/beseech, or Liliana Vess, this will allow you to run some 1of cards that become really useful in specific situations like Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone to sweep enchantment/artifacts, which is your only option in black anyway. O stone isn't a must run, but if you run tutor effects, I'd run at least 1 N disk (sweeps everything and saves your walkers).
1of Volrath's Stronghold is a must if you run Gatekeeper or any creatures with effects that can recur (in my build, this applies to 4 gatekeepers and 3 braids).
Sorin Markov is a beast in MBC. 9/10 games, unless the board has gotten out of hand, I will want to drop him into play asap. Consider at least 1-2 of him. Not a must have card, but once you've played with him, I guarantee you will not drop him.
Alternate route (fun) I've tried is running Death Wish LOL. Looks ridiculous, but unless you're playing against burn, this card actually works. This allows you to set up a 1x everything in your sideboard for any situation without having to run possible dead cards main deck.
Discard spells in MBC I find are not a necessity. But they never hurt. I've considered dropping the Thoughtseizes, but I have no turn 1 move, so they haven't moved.
Contrary to popular belief, MBC does not need accel that uses up slots in your main deck like Dark Ritual UNLESS you're going a heavy discard route with 4x duress/thoughtseize and 4x hymn, Hypnotic Specter, etc. You do not want to topdeck a ritual late game when you need that winning Consume Spirit or something.
Chainer's Edict > Diabolic Edict almost always unless you're faced with a ton of manlands/hasties which can get a little annoying and hard to get rid of.
Consume Spirit is an auto-include as well. No argument there. Profane Command has been in and out of my deck, I find it OK but sometime's I really need that life gain.
I may have missed some other things I wanted to talk about, but I can't think of them right now lol.
EDIT: oh right, Oona is a good win con, I've had it as a 1of for a while, but I preferred Braids to break decks, annoy in multiplayer, having another card to interact with the stronghold, and also makes Sorin a bigger beast (Sorin + Braids in play with no answer from the opponent = gg always).
And you could definitely splash white if you want, but you'd need Godless Shrine and Marsh Flats