Has anyone seen this kind of deck in the MTGO 2-mans, dailies, or practice room? I saw one about a week or so ago that used a multitude of colors and cards that dumped cards into the 'yard (Faithless Looting, Desperate Ravings, Forbidden Alchemy, etc) to ultimately fill it with Flayer of the Hatebound, Drogskul Reaver, and Unburial Rites. It then reanimated those two large targets, the Flayers being particularly neat since if your opponent killed them with exiling them, they would take 9 points of damage from the Flayer. The Reaver seemed very well suited to making sure you didn't die after taking a bit of time to set up the deck.
I only saw it in one match and haven't seen it since. I decided to try and replicate it best I could minus the Reavers (As I'm very very budget deckbuilding). So far, the list has worked pretty nicely, despite relying on only Evolving Wilds and Shimmering Grotto to manage all five colors.
Could anyone direct me to where this has been posted prior (IF it has)? I would love to know where this idea originally came about.
Build this deck more mid-range with Olivia Voldaren and it can work.
Cool interaction though... If you have a Flayer in play and reanimate another flayer you can target your current flayer and then it comes back and you target the one that came in originally. This deals approximately 1 billion damage to your opponent.
EDIT:
Yo dawg, I heard you like to reanimate flayers. So we put a flayer in your yard so you can reanimate flayers while you're reanimating your flayers.
Build this deck more mid-range with Olivia Voldaren and it can work.
Cool interaction though... If you have a Flayer in play and reanimate another flayer you can target your current flayer and then it comes back and you target the one that came in originally. This deals approximately 1 billion damage to your opponent.
EDIT:
Yo dawg, I heard you like to reanimate flayers. So we put a flayer in your yard so you can reanimate flayers while you're reanimating your flayers.
I had not thought to target the first flayer with the second for additional damage actually... That really does do a ton of damage. Total of about 23 damages, I think, with the two Flayers? Also, either Olivia or Reaver are great in here, though I think the Reaver has the more immediate impact with a Flayer on the board.
Wouldn't Moldgraf Monstrosity be better than Drogskol Reaver? IT has silly synergy with Flayer since if they kill the Monstrosity you can throw the Flayer into play from your yard if it's there. An 8/8 Trampler ain't shabby, either.
Just run the following and in the deck and you should be good:
Wouldn't Moldgraf Monstrosity be better than Drogskol Reaver? IT has silly synergy with Flayer since if they kill the Monstrosity you can throw the Flayer into play from your yard if it's there. An 8/8 Trampler ain't shabby, either.
Just run the following and in the deck and you should be good:
Aside from fixing, there's no use for the Elk and it's just going to get in the way if Monstrosity dies, isn't it? Funny enough, I ran into another reanimator a lot like the first I saw, but this one did use Monstrosity, as well as Balefire Dragon, in addition to the Reaver and Flayer.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Hit Flayer A for 4, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A undies, hit player for 5, hit Flayer B for 5.
>Flayer B undies, hit player for 10.
I can see a Jund or Grixis list splashing white for the flashback on Rites. Jund list uses green for Mulch, Pilgrim, Instincts; Grixis uses blue for Forbidden Alchemy.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Hit Flayer A for 4, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A undies, hit player for 5, hit Flayer B for 5.
>Flayer B undies, hit player for 10.
I can see a Jund or Grixis list splashing white for the flashback on Rites. Jund list uses green for Mulch, Pilgrim, Instincts; Grixis uses blue for Forbidden Alchemy.
The 23 was assuming you had originally used a Rites to get the first Flayer onto the field, which your are normally going to do. Even if it gets to your hand, Looting can put it where it belongs. In best case scenario it goes:
>Rites Flayer A, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Hit Flayer A for 4, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A undies, hit player for 5, hit Flayer B for 5.
>Flayer B undies, hit player for 10.
Reanimating a Flayer with another (pre-undying) on the field is an exact 20 damage, or a powerful board wipe. I've done it countless times in the past few weeks, you just have to stack it correctly.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Both Flayer triggers target themselves.
>Flayer A dies, comes back, triggers twice again. Both triggers go to the dome (2x5 damage).
>Flayer B dies, comes back, triggers twice again. Another 10 to the dome.
With everyone playing Sever the Bloodline and Purify the Grave, this deck become a lot less fun though.
@Mori: So far Flayer has been efficient at ending games quickly. If everything goes smoothly, from testing so far you can have a Flayer out as soon as turn 3, provided you have Avacyn's Pilgrim and both a Flayer and Rites in your graveyard. From there your opponent is going to be hesitant to attack, considering the Flayer usually trades and comes back to deal 5 more damagfe and trade with something else - after which it can be brought back again to start over.
After facing the reanimator deck I saw last, I readjusted and took some pointers from that deck and this thread and am trying out the following, which has gone well, though it's bane appears to be Thalia if I don't have a Harvest Pyre around, seeing as the deck relies on so many non-creature spells.
I've seen a few more of the reanimator style decks using Flayer since the other night, too, so I may be changing my board a bit and adding in some Purify the Grave or Memory's Journey.
I've been playing this deck since DKA came out on MTGO. I won several 2-mans, but ultimately ran into token trouble in dailies. I'm optimistic the deck will perform better once the bannings go into effect. For one, with so many token decks, everyone packs Sever the Bloodline, which is a real problem for a deck that plays only a few creatures and wants them to die. My anti-Sever tech is Fling, but to make best use of it, you need 2 extra mana after casting Unburial Rites, meaning it only works after Turn 6. My anti-token tech is Blashpemous Act because, again, this deck likes it when its creatures die; but once your opponent expects you to have 4 Acts maindeck, he rarely plays more than 4 creatures, which complicates casting the Act before turn 5. For all these reasons (plus because of the randomness of having to spend 3-4 turns digging through your deck), winning on turn 5 is infrequent; turns 6 and 7 are more typical but usually aren't fast enough against RW decks.
A few more thoughts. Tracker's Instinct is a mixed bag with so few creatures and really wanting them in the graveyard instead of in the hand. Along the same lines, turning Moldgraf Monstrosity into 2 Pilgrims is embarassing. I found that, rather than Monstrosity, Drogskol Reaver is a surprising stabilizer, since the life gain combined with card draw (and doubel strike blocking) can be enough to slow down a fast deck and get you to turn 6 or 7 for the win.
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Sounds pretty cool. I wanted to build a Block deck for a change, and this sounds fun .
I want to add Heartless Summoning to it, I have a Summoning/Reanimator hybrid that is OK in Standard (though in block it loses Whipflare and Elesh Norn and all the other reanimation targets)
reaver owns moldgraf monstrosity....reaver will bring you back from unwinnable situations. be careful though, he can deck you if you have two copies and don't pay attention to the triggers..
its a fun deck to play...with the bannings, this deck is setup well...sever will be played less...and rolling temblor becomes effective
if we had a creature sweeper like elesh or massacre this deck would be crazy....
graffidigger's cage shuts this deck down, but it comes in after board, and as long as you got grudges and/or naturalizes, you should be good...
This problem comes up for a few very linear deck strategies from time to time. In my experience, it is best to only side in a few of your anti-hate cards (in this case Ancient Grudge and Naturalize). Then, if you do see the Cage game 2 but you didn't have the anti-hate, you can side in your full compliment of anti-hate cards for game 3.
This way you don't dilute your game 2 gameplan, but you still have an off-chance to beat the card that hates you, in this case Cage.
I'd suggest 2 Ancient Grudge game 2 no matter what matchup. Then, if you lose, you go up to 3 Grudge and 2 Naturalize for game 3.
Well you need to have a coherent plan to deal with it.
Just bringing in 2-3 grudges isnt really enough when you cant play them from the graveyard. You need to be able to get to your artifact removal, you need to be able to find it, not in your graveyard.
And not only do you need to bring in enough copies to be able to find one and cast it in time to start executing your plan... You need to side them in every match, blindly, before you actually see any grafdigger's cages from your opponent.
So you need to know what you will remove to bring those in, and you also need to keep that in mind when considering your other sideboard slots, if you will already be bringing in 3-5 artifact kill effects, can you even afford to further dilute the deck by bringing in even more cards?
In a deck like this id run 4-5 artifact removal. And if you ever plan on running reanimator, youd better get used to 'diluting' your deck. The way i see it, at least its not surgical extraction, or spellbomb. Most boards run 2 grafdiggers, so its not that big of an issue.
If your really concerned, transform your sideboard like frites. Use strangle root and the like.
Grafdiggers cage isnt whats holding this deck back. Its the speed of the boros humans. When this deck can survive nut draws of champion and townsfolk into hellrider, then this will be a contender.
Grafdiggers cage isnt whats holding this deck back. Its the speed of the boros humans. When this deck can survive nut draws of champion and townsfolk into hellrider, then this will be a contender.
THIS.
If only there was a card that could gain a bunch of life to allow you to survive that attack long enough to get your plan online.
If only there was a card that could gain a bunch of life to allow you to survive that attack long enough to get your plan online.
the only card that comes to mind is gnaw but you gotta play allot of dorks, which means cutting sweepers. Blunt the assault would be alright, but we don't have it so why even think about it.
zombies aren't as good as boros humans but it sure does put down a ton of pressure fast...
when i play against dredge, i get the impression that pre DKA dredge was a more formidable opponent. I guess they cut the amount of severs they run. Severs own this deck, and if you play with a full compliment of severs, you can out last their long game...
i don't run tracker's in my list, I run all five basics, and sometimes it gets rid of my only blue or white. I want to try out increasing con, seeing that it can fill an empty grave and deck an opponent who is too greedy with their digging...I've been using increasing ambition as a one of and its been nice as a tutor for unburial rites. maybe increasing vengeance, as a one of, to double up a mulch or triple unburial rites...i dunno...prolly greedy...
Kahalablala -- I've tried Increasing Vengeance many times, but it never works out -- the extra 2 or 5 mana means you aren't playing it before turn 6 at the earliest, when, against the best decks in the format, you are dead.
I do agree on Tracker's Instinct, though. It hurts a deck with 1-ofs, and always manages to ditch a Blasphemous Act or some other card I want. I've cut down to 2 or 3 in the deck, and I typically cast them only if necessary or if I'm comfortably sitting on a graveyard with Unburial Rites. Mid- to late-game, Instinct shines, but early on, its utility is mixed.
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Kahalablala -- I've tried Increasing Vengeance many times, but it never works out -- the extra 2 or 5 mana means you aren't playing it before turn 6 at the earliest, when, against the best decks in the format, you are dead.
I do agree on Tracker's Instinct, though. It hurts a deck with 1-ofs, and always manages to ditch a Blasphemous Act or some other card I want. I've cut down to 2 or 3 in the deck, and I typically cast them only if necessary or if I'm comfortably sitting on a graveyard with Unburial Rites. Mid- to late-game, Instinct shines, but early on, its utility is mixed.
True words palanthas. I was toying around with the idea of using snapcaster, and change the mana base to actually use him. It would be pretty nice to flash mulch or act.
This has been my build as of testing. Huntmaster gives you a midrange plan B and a ways of surviving til you get the big guns out. It functions as a pseudo removal spell for problematic creatures like Thalia and the like.
This has been my build as of testing. Huntmaster gives you a midrange plan B and a ways of surviving til you get the big guns out. It functions as a pseudo removal spell for problematic creatures like Thalia and the like.
I too have resorted to using huntmaster in a sorta midrange build. I'm never unhappy to draw it or even reanimate it to stabilize the board. Few things to note though: Balefire while in theory seems a good reanimator target, simply doesnt get the job done as it gets chumped all day. I would include it in the sideboard and use moldgraf monstrosity instead. The monstrosity has some pretty sick synergies especially if you have a flayer in play. For my build i chose to maindeck a couple of flings for the extra reach and obvious combo with monstrosity/flayer.
Flayer also seems an automatic 4 of. It's your main win condition in this deck. I would also cut the forbidden alchemy for armored skaabs which essentially does the same thing but provides an all important blocker to increase your chances of surviving the early game. 23 lands is definitely too little for this kind of deck given it's essentially 5 colored. All in all, in my experience with it, the deck is pretty fun but doesn't fare well against R/W tokens, werewolves or other hyper aggresive strategies. Interested to know how good drogskol reaver is for you though.
I go for Forbidden Alchemy since you want to search up for Sever the Bloodline to get rid of blockers for Balefire Dragon. Flayer never felt like #1 win con. Turn 3 Balefire almost always does it for me.
Drogskol on play has been awesome. I've been able to draw extra cards from Huntmaster with it on play.
Beating Boros is entirely possible with the deck, brimstone volley is one of the keys to doing so. It's very easy to hold 3 mana open on the draw and kill their turn 4 hellrider, after which stabalizing is easy if you are not bricking on your mill.
When you are on the play, it's very possible to animate flayer and both kill something on their board and make attacking with hellrider a one time thing that severely reduces their board presence.
I only saw it in one match and haven't seen it since. I decided to try and replicate it best I could minus the Reavers (As I'm very very budget deckbuilding). So far, the list has worked pretty nicely, despite relying on only Evolving Wilds and Shimmering Grotto to manage all five colors.
Could anyone direct me to where this has been posted prior (IF it has)? I would love to know where this idea originally came about.
Cool interaction though... If you have a Flayer in play and reanimate another flayer you can target your current flayer and then it comes back and you target the one that came in originally. This deals approximately 1 billion damage to your opponent.
Also, reanimate a Drogskol Reaver while a flayer is in play
EDIT:
Yo dawg, I heard you like to reanimate flayers. So we put a flayer in your yard so you can reanimate flayers while you're reanimating your flayers.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
I had not thought to target the first flayer with the second for additional damage actually... That really does do a ton of damage. Total of about 23 damages, I think, with the two Flayers? Also, either Olivia or Reaver are great in here, though I think the Reaver has the more immediate impact with a Flayer on the board.
Just run the following and in the deck and you should be good:
And whatever else would have synergy with these.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Aside from fixing, there's no use for the Elk and it's just going to get in the way if Monstrosity dies, isn't it? Funny enough, I ran into another reanimator a lot like the first I saw, but this one did use Monstrosity, as well as Balefire Dragon, in addition to the Reaver and Flayer.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Hit Flayer A for 4, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A undies, hit player for 5, hit Flayer B for 5.
>Flayer B undies, hit player for 10.
I can see a Jund or Grixis list splashing white for the flashback on Rites. Jund list uses green for Mulch, Pilgrim, Instincts; Grixis uses blue for Forbidden Alchemy.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
The 23 was assuming you had originally used a Rites to get the first Flayer onto the field, which your are normally going to do. Even if it gets to your hand, Looting can put it where it belongs. In best case scenario it goes:
>Rites Flayer A, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Hit Flayer A for 4, hit player for 4.
>Flayer A undies, hit player for 5, hit Flayer B for 5.
>Flayer B undies, hit player for 10.
>Flayer A in play, Rites Flayer B. Both Flayer triggers target themselves.
>Flayer A dies, comes back, triggers twice again. Both triggers go to the dome (2x5 damage).
>Flayer B dies, comes back, triggers twice again. Another 10 to the dome.
With everyone playing Sever the Bloodline and Purify the Grave, this deck become a lot less fun though.
After facing the reanimator deck I saw last, I readjusted and took some pointers from that deck and this thread and am trying out the following, which has gone well, though it's bane appears to be Thalia if I don't have a Harvest Pyre around, seeing as the deck relies on so many non-creature spells.
5 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Shimmering Grotto
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Plains
Creatures - 14
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Moldgraf Monstrosity
2 Balefire Dragon
4 Unburial Rites
4 Mulch
4 Faithless Looting
4 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Tracker's Instinct
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Harvest Pyre
1 Naturalize
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Undead Alchemist
2 Slayer of the Wicked
3 Dissipate
4 Blasphemous Act
I've seen a few more of the reanimator style decks using Flayer since the other night, too, so I may be changing my board a bit and adding in some Purify the Grave or Memory's Journey.
A few more thoughts. Tracker's Instinct is a mixed bag with so few creatures and really wanting them in the graveyard instead of in the hand. Along the same lines, turning Moldgraf Monstrosity into 2 Pilgrims is embarassing. I found that, rather than Monstrosity, Drogskol Reaver is a surprising stabilizer, since the life gain combined with card draw (and doubel strike blocking) can be enough to slow down a fast deck and get you to turn 6 or 7 for the win.
- My Full Mirrodin Cube (draft it here)
- My One-Drop Cube (draft it here)
MCC Winner Nov ‘14 & Nov ‘15
I want to add Heartless Summoning to it, I have a Summoning/Reanimator hybrid that is OK in Standard (though in block it loses Whipflare and Elesh Norn and all the other reanimation targets)
its a fun deck to play...with the bannings, this deck is setup well...sever will be played less...and rolling temblor becomes effective
if we had a creature sweeper like elesh or massacre this deck would be crazy....
graffidigger's cage shuts this deck down, but it comes in after board, and as long as you got grudges and/or naturalizes, you should be good...
This way you don't dilute your game 2 gameplan, but you still have an off-chance to beat the card that hates you, in this case Cage.
I'd suggest 2 Ancient Grudge game 2 no matter what matchup. Then, if you lose, you go up to 3 Grudge and 2 Naturalize for game 3.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
In a deck like this id run 4-5 artifact removal. And if you ever plan on running reanimator, youd better get used to 'diluting' your deck. The way i see it, at least its not surgical extraction, or spellbomb. Most boards run 2 grafdiggers, so its not that big of an issue.
If your really concerned, transform your sideboard like frites. Use strangle root and the like.
Grafdiggers cage isnt whats holding this deck back. Its the speed of the boros humans. When this deck can survive nut draws of champion and townsfolk into hellrider, then this will be a contender.
THIS.
If only there was a card that could gain a bunch of life to allow you to survive that attack long enough to get your plan online.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
the only card that comes to mind is gnaw but you gotta play allot of dorks, which means cutting sweepers. Blunt the assault would be alright, but we don't have it so why even think about it.
zombies aren't as good as boros humans but it sure does put down a ton of pressure fast...
when i play against dredge, i get the impression that pre DKA dredge was a more formidable opponent. I guess they cut the amount of severs they run. Severs own this deck, and if you play with a full compliment of severs, you can out last their long game...
i don't run tracker's in my list, I run all five basics, and sometimes it gets rid of my only blue or white. I want to try out increasing con, seeing that it can fill an empty grave and deck an opponent who is too greedy with their digging...I've been using increasing ambition as a one of and its been nice as a tutor for unburial rites. maybe increasing vengeance, as a one of, to double up a mulch or triple unburial rites...i dunno...prolly greedy...
I do agree on Tracker's Instinct, though. It hurts a deck with 1-ofs, and always manages to ditch a Blasphemous Act or some other card I want. I've cut down to 2 or 3 in the deck, and I typically cast them only if necessary or if I'm comfortably sitting on a graveyard with Unburial Rites. Mid- to late-game, Instinct shines, but early on, its utility is mixed.
- My Full Mirrodin Cube (draft it here)
- My One-Drop Cube (draft it here)
MCC Winner Nov ‘14 & Nov ‘15
True words palanthas. I was toying around with the idea of using snapcaster, and change the mana base to actually use him. It would be pretty nice to flash mulch or act.
1 [ISD] Mountain (1)
1 [ISD] Plains (1)
5 [ISD] Forest (1)
2 [ISD] Hinterland Harbor
1 [ISD] Island (1)
4 [DKA] Evolving Wilds
2 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery
1 [ISD] Swamp (1)
1 [ISD] Clifftop Retreat
1 [ISD] Sulfur Falls
4 [ISD] Shimmering Grotto
4 [ISD] Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 [DKA] Scorned Villager/Moonscarred Werewolf
2 [DKA] Drogskol Reaver
3 [ISD] Balefire Dragon
2 [DKA] Flayer of the Hatebound
4 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells
// Spells
4 [ISD] Mulch
2 [DKA] Tracker's Instincts
4 [DKA] Faithless Looting
4 [ISD] Unburial Rites
4 [ISD] Forbidden Alchemy
2 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
I too have resorted to using huntmaster in a sorta midrange build. I'm never unhappy to draw it or even reanimate it to stabilize the board. Few things to note though: Balefire while in theory seems a good reanimator target, simply doesnt get the job done as it gets chumped all day. I would include it in the sideboard and use moldgraf monstrosity instead. The monstrosity has some pretty sick synergies especially if you have a flayer in play. For my build i chose to maindeck a couple of flings for the extra reach and obvious combo with monstrosity/flayer.
Flayer also seems an automatic 4 of. It's your main win condition in this deck. I would also cut the forbidden alchemy for armored skaabs which essentially does the same thing but provides an all important blocker to increase your chances of surviving the early game. 23 lands is definitely too little for this kind of deck given it's essentially 5 colored. All in all, in my experience with it, the deck is pretty fun but doesn't fare well against R/W tokens, werewolves or other hyper aggresive strategies. Interested to know how good drogskol reaver is for you though.
Drogskol on play has been awesome. I've been able to draw extra cards from Huntmaster with it on play.
23 lands has never failed me.
1 [ISD] Mountain (1)
1 [ISD] Plains (1)
5 [ISD] Forest (1)
2 [ISD] Hinterland Harbor
1 [ISD] Island (1)
4 [DKA] Evolving Wilds
2 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery
1 [ISD] Swamp (1)
1 [ISD] Clifftop Retreat
1 [ISD] Sulfur Falls
4 [ISD] Shimmering Grotto
4 [ISD] Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 [DKA] Drogskol Reaver
3 [ISD] Balefire Dragon
2 [DKA] Flayer of the Hatebound
4 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells
// Spells
4 [ISD] Mulch
4 [DKA] Faithless Looting
4 [ISD] Unburial Rites
4 [ISD] Forbidden Alchemy
3 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
3 [DKA] Burning Oil
This has been my updated build.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/3753921
Beating Boros is entirely possible with the deck, brimstone volley is one of the keys to doing so. It's very easy to hold 3 mana open on the draw and kill their turn 4 hellrider, after which stabalizing is easy if you are not bricking on your mill.
When you are on the play, it's very possible to animate flayer and both kill something on their board and make attacking with hellrider a one time thing that severely reduces their board presence.