Sometimes, the companies themselves have to realize that legalizing what is illegal will work better than all the C&Ds. Pirating MP3s are lower now as free streaming is so much easier and you don't get headaches from the media companies.
went ahead and signed this, hasbro needs to stop this C&D Rampage. i was really looking forward to the MLP fighting game, and now my number 1 source for mtg testing is on the chopping block too?
went ahead and signed this, hasbro needs to stop this C&D Rampage. i was really looking forward to the MLP fighting game, and now my number 1 source for mtg testing is on the chopping block too?
It still works, browse around the forums and I am sure you will find one of the new servers around somewhere. I'm going to stop posting them in the open, but they are there.
If anything Cockatrice made me buy more cards not less it even got me to play MTGO so like some said earlier they skip on free advertisement if anything Hasbro should thank Brukie instead of threaten him. And tell him to keep up the good work,
Keesie
It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.
Just like Metallica though Hasbro won't withdraw. Either cockatrice will have to go a P2P model in some fashion or the large company will just drag it out till they can no longer put up a fight.
If anything Cockatrice made me buy more cards not less it even got me to play MTGO so like some said earlier they skip on free advertisement if anything Hasbro should thank Brukie instead of threaten him. And tell him to keep up the good work,
Keesie
It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.
Just like Metallica though Hasbro won't withdraw. Either cockatrice will have to go a P2P model in some fashion or the large company will just drag it out till they can no longer put up a fight.
I wonder why Magic doesn't do it's own "free" mode with MTGO, and just let people create infinite decks but you just can't join money tournaments with them (basically the same as Cockatrice). Perhaps even go a step further and allow for "free" sealed/draft tournaments (with no prizes obviously) to let people that want to practice for the real thing do so. They wouldn't make money strictly from people that use said mode... but you would give people the same ability to playtest (and then buy the cards they they want to buy when they are done), and also because it's on MTGO and not a nuetral party, there's opportunity for ads and just the fact that they are on MTGO at all means they are more likely to buy stuff from Bots for their first real deck or w/e.
Also... a factor that I don't think gets that much mention is...... oh my god think of how many new players would try this new game for free and learn how to play magic, and then eventually buy cards once they feel confident enough to play. And the most important thing about this is they are playing on a system that for the most part doesn't let them develop misconceptions about the rules. Stuff about targeting, timing, attacking, blocking, w/e. It's all there.
It's basically like "free to play" modes in other MMORPGs that let you demo the game. And for the most part it's a proven system.
It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.
Source? And why, in your opinion, would the music industry stop Napster if this meant they would lose money? Why would Hasbro stop Cockatrice if this means they will lose money?
Yes, although it might be easier to just 1v1 against yourself on the same monitor unless you have someone else to "test" against.
I do have someone to test with and we currently use Cockatrice in server mode, just because that's all I've figured out. So how does one run it in LAN mode?
I wonder why Magic doesn't do it's own "free" mode with MTGO, and just let people create infinite decks but you just can't join money tournaments with them (basically the same as Cockatrice). Perhaps even go a step further and allow for "free" sealed/draft tournaments (with no prizes obviously) to let people that want to practice for the real thing do so. They wouldn't make money strictly from people that use said mode... but you would give people the same ability to playtest (and then buy the cards they they want to buy when they are done), and also because it's on MTGO and not a nuetral party, there's opportunity for ads and just the fact that they are on MTGO at all means they are more likely to buy stuff from Bots for their first real deck or w/e.
Also... a factor that I don't think gets that much mention is...... oh my god think of how many new players would try this new game for free and learn how to play magic, and then eventually buy cards once they feel confident enough to play. And the most important thing about this is they are playing on a system that for the most part doesn't let them develop misconceptions about the rules. Stuff about targeting, timing, attacking, blocking, w/e. It's all there.
It's basically like "free to play" modes in other MMORPGs that let you demo the game. And for the most part it's a proven system.
A very sound concept, but likely too sensible for Wizards to implement. I agree that Hasbro is the primary villain in this case, but when a substantial business concern like WotC with more than adequate resources and financing allows an unpaid freelance team to develop a superior product versus their official digital play platform, then they are inviting their own decline.
And to everyone getting bent out of shape that Hasbro is bringing action against Cockatrice... they kinda own MTG and all similarities, likenesses, etc. Do you think someone would get away with opening a "free" burger joint
and having the McDonald's logo all over it?
And to everyone getting bent out of shape that Hasbro is bringing action against Cockatrice... they kinda own MTG and all similarities, likenesses, etc. Do you think someone would get away with opening a "free" burger joint
and having the McDonald's logo all over it?
If i'm understanding the case correctly; the illegal thing Cockatrice has done is use the images for the cards from Gatherer.
Hasbro is also asking for money because of "damages" that they have suffered.
Hasbro has legal right and precedent to request recompense for any action taken by an outside party to mimic, reproduce, reconstruct, or utilize their patented brand. While I may or may not agree with their methods, they are well above and beyond reproach on this one.
So speaking as an individual who has had a bit of experience/education in this avenue, it is, for better or worse, that "open and shut" as I put it.
Sucks, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My favorite quote from an opponent who went first,
"God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
Hasbro has legal right and precedent to request recompense for any action taken by an outside party to mimic, reproduce, reconstruct, or utilize their patented brand. While I may or may not agree with their methods, they are well above and beyond reproach on this one.
So speaking as an individual who has had a bit of experience/education in this avenue, it is, for better or worse, that "open and shut" as I put it.
Sucks, though.
I have legal education. I have not studied patents or copyrights. I have studied US trademark law. US trademark law covers brands, not US patent law. One does not patent a brand. Maybe it's different somewhere else, but your location marker says United States. I have no idea where you're getting educated if you're talking about patenting brands. It's interesting to try to apply US trademark and copyright law to the Cockatrice-Hasbro dispute, but your language here makes any analysis pretty bereft of credibility.
Source? And why, in your opinion, would the music industry stop Napster if this meant they would lose money? Why would Hasbro stop Cockatrice if this means they will lose money?
Look up the Hush-A-Phone. Businesses are famous for using legal clout like mad, even when it ends up hurting them.
That said, I don't think Cockatrice actually does serve as a jumping off point for new players. I've tried introducing friends to magic in two ways - Cockatrice and Duels of the Planeswalkers. Cockatrice always overwhelms them with the sheer amount of cards and no rules help - which means I have to hold their hands anyway. Duels of the Planeswalkers though has never failed to get someone feeling comfortable with the game.
That said, I don't think Cockatrice actually does serve as a jumping off point for new players. I've tried introducing friends to magic in two ways - Cockatrice and Duels of the Planeswalkers. Cockatrice always overwhelms them with the sheer amount of cards and no rules help - which means I have to hold their hands anyway. Duels of the Planeswalkers though has never failed to get someone feeling comfortable with the game.
In which case Cockatrice doesn't hurt business and Hasbro might as well sue the internet for making DOTP available through piracy. Don't take any ideas from this post, Hasbro! >O
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[I was permabanned and all I got to show for it was .... well, nothing.]
In some fairness, this is mostly Hasbro's fault to begin with.
If a version of DotP/MtGO existed which allowed players to pay a 1-time fee to buy the game (and even possibly a small additional fee to download new sets as they came out), players would likely do so. There'd be no need for paid tournaments, or anything done on this program to be tracked in rankings or otherwise - it would simply exist for playtesting sake. If something like Duels of the Planeswalkers existed with a much larger card base, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd much rather pay a reasonable fee for a program like that than use something like Cockatrice for free. Heck, they could even have 'trial' versions of the program that did have DotP-style limited card access, such that new players could try it out and then decided to invest in the game.
However, there's a huge monetary gap between something like $60 up front + $10-15 every 3 months for a new DLC (each set released), versus something closer to $600 up front and another $100-150 (or more) for playing on MTGO or in person. This is low-balling those estimates and is significantly worse if you had any interest in Modern, Extended, Legacy or heaven-forbid Vintage.
There's a market of players looking for a reasonably costed version of the game played via an online source with unlimited access to cards they wish to play or test with - so long as Hasbro ignores this market, private programmers will attempt to fill it. There already exist cockatrice-like programs that are less popular but still completely viable to play with.
The situation has been compared to Napster and it truly is similar. The lack of an ability to download individual songs before is what made Napster successful. While illegal downloading of songs still exists, many people instead choose to use legal outlets. I'd wager that the number of people who download illegally would be even smaller if such outlets existed in the first place, as most (I hope) people would rather do things through a legitimate legal outlet when there exists a reasonable way to do so. If Hasbro had captured this market in the first place, there'd be almost no one using other outlets - it simply wouldn't be worth the effort to develop the code, constant updates, and secondary community when a reasonable primary source existed.
Duels of the Planeswalkers is a good start, but it lacks the core component that players are looking for (card diversity that allows for full testing in proper formats). I'd even be happy if they had a 'legacy/vintage' mode where rules enforcement didn't exist (this would require additional programing per card, from my understanding), but that the card images were available to play with for players who knew how to use them. Much, if not all, of the code could be copied from MtGO. If they were *really* smart about it, they'd even allow you to import decklists into MtGO from this secondary testing program and vice-versa, so you could test more easily. They could even allow the testing program to have lists for your 'collection' and 'virtual collection', so that when you test out decks that you could then see what card(s) you still needed to buy and in what quantities.
The potential is there, and for the money spent on lawyers C&Ding cockatrice, they could have already had the project underway.
They could even allow the testing program to have lists for your 'collection' and 'virtual collection', so that when you test out decks that you could then see what card(s) you still needed to buy and in what
This would be awesome, I would buy it in a heartbeat if it wasn't too expensive. Make it so you could input into the system what real paper cards you own, and how many, and then you could test using the entire card pool, just like cockatrice, but cards you don't own would show up highlighted in some way, so you know you need to buy them to make the deck in real life.
That would be much easier than making a deck, and then having to go through all your cards looking for various ones you can't remember if you traded away or not.
But at the end of the day, Hasbro is not looking to make something better. They are a business looking to make money and we as players are going to pay the price. As a few has said, if they took all this effort to prosecute "ONE" person over something that we can use so they can MAKE MORE MONEY, then they can use that money to build something better than Cockatrice and have a one time flat fee and we all can play.
Do the CEO's listen, of course not. So as a result, you have pissed off clientelle who will do whatever it takes to buy cheaply instead of boxes and packs.
You can still build decks and play them against yourself.
YES!!!!!!!!
Sometimes, the companies themselves have to realize that legalizing what is illegal will work better than all the C&Ds. Pirating MP3s are lower now as free streaming is so much easier and you don't get headaches from the media companies.
Oh well.
Currently playing:
T2
BW Aggro-Midrange BW
Yes, although it might be easier to just 1v1 against yourself on the same monitor unless you have someone else to "test" against.
went ahead and signed this, hasbro needs to stop this C&D Rampage. i was really looking forward to the MLP fighting game, and now my number 1 source for mtg testing is on the chopping block too?
It still works, browse around the forums and I am sure you will find one of the new servers around somewhere. I'm going to stop posting them in the open, but they are there.
It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.
Just like Metallica though Hasbro won't withdraw. Either cockatrice will have to go a P2P model in some fashion or the large company will just drag it out till they can no longer put up a fight.
I wonder why Magic doesn't do it's own "free" mode with MTGO, and just let people create infinite decks but you just can't join money tournaments with them (basically the same as Cockatrice). Perhaps even go a step further and allow for "free" sealed/draft tournaments (with no prizes obviously) to let people that want to practice for the real thing do so. They wouldn't make money strictly from people that use said mode... but you would give people the same ability to playtest (and then buy the cards they they want to buy when they are done), and also because it's on MTGO and not a nuetral party, there's opportunity for ads and just the fact that they are on MTGO at all means they are more likely to buy stuff from Bots for their first real deck or w/e.
Also... a factor that I don't think gets that much mention is...... oh my god think of how many new players would try this new game for free and learn how to play magic, and then eventually buy cards once they feel confident enough to play. And the most important thing about this is they are playing on a system that for the most part doesn't let them develop misconceptions about the rules. Stuff about targeting, timing, attacking, blocking, w/e. It's all there.
It's basically like "free to play" modes in other MMORPGs that let you demo the game. And for the most part it's a proven system.
A very sound concept, but likely too sensible for Wizards to implement. I agree that Hasbro is the primary villain in this case, but when a substantial business concern like WotC with more than adequate resources and financing allows an unpaid freelance team to develop a superior product versus their official digital play platform, then they are inviting their own decline.
And to everyone getting bent out of shape that Hasbro is bringing action against Cockatrice... they kinda own MTG and all similarities, likenesses, etc. Do you think someone would get away with opening a "free" burger joint
and having the McDonald's logo all over it?
"God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
If i'm understanding the case correctly; the illegal thing Cockatrice has done is use the images for the cards from Gatherer.
Hasbro is also asking for money because of "damages" that they have suffered.
It's not so open and shut as you put it.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
So speaking as an individual who has had a bit of experience/education in this avenue, it is, for better or worse, that "open and shut" as I put it.
Sucks, though.
"God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
I have legal education. I have not studied patents or copyrights. I have studied US trademark law. US trademark law covers brands, not US patent law. One does not patent a brand. Maybe it's different somewhere else, but your location marker says United States. I have no idea where you're getting educated if you're talking about patenting brands. It's interesting to try to apply US trademark and copyright law to the Cockatrice-Hasbro dispute, but your language here makes any analysis pretty bereft of credibility.
Ah well, I use MWS for VS System anyway...
"God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
Look up the Hush-A-Phone. Businesses are famous for using legal clout like mad, even when it ends up hurting them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush-A-Phone_v._United_States
That said, I don't think Cockatrice actually does serve as a jumping off point for new players. I've tried introducing friends to magic in two ways - Cockatrice and Duels of the Planeswalkers. Cockatrice always overwhelms them with the sheer amount of cards and no rules help - which means I have to hold their hands anyway. Duels of the Planeswalkers though has never failed to get someone feeling comfortable with the game.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
In which case Cockatrice doesn't hurt business and Hasbro might as well sue the internet for making DOTP available through piracy. Don't take any ideas from this post, Hasbro! >O
If a version of DotP/MtGO existed which allowed players to pay a 1-time fee to buy the game (and even possibly a small additional fee to download new sets as they came out), players would likely do so. There'd be no need for paid tournaments, or anything done on this program to be tracked in rankings or otherwise - it would simply exist for playtesting sake. If something like Duels of the Planeswalkers existed with a much larger card base, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd much rather pay a reasonable fee for a program like that than use something like Cockatrice for free. Heck, they could even have 'trial' versions of the program that did have DotP-style limited card access, such that new players could try it out and then decided to invest in the game.
However, there's a huge monetary gap between something like $60 up front + $10-15 every 3 months for a new DLC (each set released), versus something closer to $600 up front and another $100-150 (or more) for playing on MTGO or in person. This is low-balling those estimates and is significantly worse if you had any interest in Modern, Extended, Legacy or heaven-forbid Vintage.
There's a market of players looking for a reasonably costed version of the game played via an online source with unlimited access to cards they wish to play or test with - so long as Hasbro ignores this market, private programmers will attempt to fill it. There already exist cockatrice-like programs that are less popular but still completely viable to play with.
The situation has been compared to Napster and it truly is similar. The lack of an ability to download individual songs before is what made Napster successful. While illegal downloading of songs still exists, many people instead choose to use legal outlets. I'd wager that the number of people who download illegally would be even smaller if such outlets existed in the first place, as most (I hope) people would rather do things through a legitimate legal outlet when there exists a reasonable way to do so. If Hasbro had captured this market in the first place, there'd be almost no one using other outlets - it simply wouldn't be worth the effort to develop the code, constant updates, and secondary community when a reasonable primary source existed.
Duels of the Planeswalkers is a good start, but it lacks the core component that players are looking for (card diversity that allows for full testing in proper formats). I'd even be happy if they had a 'legacy/vintage' mode where rules enforcement didn't exist (this would require additional programing per card, from my understanding), but that the card images were available to play with for players who knew how to use them. Much, if not all, of the code could be copied from MtGO. If they were *really* smart about it, they'd even allow you to import decklists into MtGO from this secondary testing program and vice-versa, so you could test more easily. They could even allow the testing program to have lists for your 'collection' and 'virtual collection', so that when you test out decks that you could then see what card(s) you still needed to buy and in what quantities.
The potential is there, and for the money spent on lawyers C&Ding cockatrice, they could have already had the project underway.
This would be awesome, I would buy it in a heartbeat if it wasn't too expensive. Make it so you could input into the system what real paper cards you own, and how many, and then you could test using the entire card pool, just like cockatrice, but cards you don't own would show up highlighted in some way, so you know you need to buy them to make the deck in real life.
That would be much easier than making a deck, and then having to go through all your cards looking for various ones you can't remember if you traded away or not.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Do the CEO's listen, of course not. So as a result, you have pissed off clientelle who will do whatever it takes to buy cheaply instead of boxes and packs.
Die Fools!!!
Looking for a Pokemon RP:
http://pokemonhaven223.proboards.com
Indulge your inner trainer today....