I'd say in Archester yes, we could argue against it for rares and [Steam] onwards.
I think Drive Chassis had a good idea. and now that Gearpicker Gull is eliminated, we could do something like this:
Familiar Spitter 2 A few small iron constructs are on a machine, looking around. A new one is being made this very moment.
Focus: One little dude hugging the big machine. He seems to have great affection
Artifact- Component
Upgraded Artifact has "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a colorless 0/1 construct token onto the battlefield tapped."
Upgrade 5 Even robots love their mommy.
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Commander WIsperia the InscrutableU WGaddock TeegG UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
^ That doesn't seem like a component, just an artifact that has to be "turned on". Maybe make it a "becomes tapped" trigger.
I think "becomes tapped" is a good thing to put on components. It works well with a lot of existing artifacts since most of them become tapped in one way or another, and other components that grant tapping abilities naturally synergize with it well.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Just a thought: what about components that trigger when something is untapped? We might be able to find some interesting design space in that area. It might make our Upgraded artifacts feel a bit more mad scientist-y.
For instance, we could change Headlight to "When this creature untaps, (you may?) tap target creature." It might get too confusing to have tap + untap components, but figured I'd throw the idea out there. Another example:
Battery Pack3
Artifact - Component (U)
Whenever Upgraded artifact untaps, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Upgrade 3: Untap Upgraded artifact. Use this ability only once per turn.
Just a thought: what about components that trigger when something is untapped? We might be able to find some interesting design space in that area. It might make our Upgraded artifacts feel a bit more mad scientist-y.
For instance, we could change Headlight to "When this creature untaps, (you may?) tap target creature." It might get too confusing to have tap + untap components, but figured I'd throw the idea out there. Another example:
Battery Pack3
Artifact - Component (U)
Whenever Upgraded artifact untaps, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Upgrade 3: Untap Upgraded artifact. Use this ability only once per turn.
I thought of this, but i think we should save it for the next set if anything. Untap effects are very uncommon so most people don't even think about them.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I don't really like that, our Artificers aren't suppose to be the "Mad Scientist"-types, that's Innistrad's gig. Our artificers are suppose to be the Doc Brown/Tesla-types, eccentric geniuses with tons of gadgets.
On your mechanic, I'm not really feeling it. I think the "Equipment for artifacts" version is probably the one we should go with.
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That's good, but it's similar to oiled gears, which I like just a little more. (Remember, this gives you infinite triggers if you put this and Steam Generator on a mana producing artifact.)
Ok here are my "votes":
Builder's Plate2 Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever Upgraded artifact is put into its owner's graveyard, draw a card.
Upgrade 2
Oiled Gears1 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact untaps during each player's untap step.
Upgrade 1
(Now colorless!)
Windup Key3 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Put a +1/+1 counter or a charge counter on this artifact."
Upgrade 1
Glaring Headlight1 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Tap target non-artifact creature."
Upgrade 3
This costs one so trinket mage can get it. I also suggest we bring the price on coveted seeing stone down to 1 as well. The tragedy of trinket mage in SoM is that IMO, he had nothing to fetch. Let's fix that.
Tick Generator2 Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, put a 0/1 colorless Pest artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
Upgrade 5
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I don't really like that, our Artificers aren't suppose to be the "Mad Scientist"-types, that's Innistrad's gig. Our artificers are suppose to be the Doc Brown/Tesla-types, eccentric geniuses with tons of gadgets.
On your mechanic, I'm not really feeling it. I think the "Equipment for artifacts" version is probably the one we should go with.
To me, Doc Brown falls under the "Mad Scientist" umbrella, but YMMV. Also, I wasn't thinking we should take away the "equipment for artifacts" idea, but rather make some components have an untap clause rather than tap. Just throwing it out there.
To me, Doc Brown falls under the "Mad Scientist" umbrella, but YMMV. Also, I wasn't thinking we should take away the "equipment for artifacts" idea, but rather make some components have an untap clause rather than tap. Just throwing it out there.
You worded your card in a strange way that made the upgrade ability seem like something that's not upgrade, which is why he was confused
Also, I think "mad scientist" can fit a lot of different roles, not just evil alchemy innistrad style scientists. To me the Izzet also count as "mad", though they're not really evil. I think the untapping part works really well for both flavor and mechanics, i just think it should be saved for the next set.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
This brings up another good point, do we need to include the reminder text for the colorless hybrid mana? It would be a pain, but if this were a real set we'd have to do it (we can't expect people to remember a mechanic that appeared on 6 cards.) We of course can just turn a blind eye to this fact, but it might be something to think about (that one of our mechanics is a lot more complex than we realize.
I don't think so. They dropped the hybrid reminder after the first block it appeared in, just like equip and other "evergreen" mechanics. Hybrid symbols are a fairly common thing in Magic now.
Seems to me all our Common components are 3 or less mana. Most good components are going to be cheap I can see that but don't we want to make drafting component decks involve picking up some Uncommons? I'm thinking things that are little bit less competitively priced, make spike a little sader:
Wind-up Charger 4
Artifact - Component 3: Put a +1/+1 or charge counter on upgraded artifact
Upgrade 4
The Mysterious Tapper 6
Artifact - Component
Whenever Upgraded artifact Untaps, Tap target artifact
Upgrade 3
Also this idea is for a rare artifact but I thought I'd spit it out there in case I forget
Solar Panels 4
Artifact
At the beginning of each upkeep untap solar panels. (2/U),Tap: Put a charge counter on target artifact (2/W)(2/W): Untap Solar Panels
I'm assuming our (U/W) faction uses charge counters a bit from the flavor and the fact I've seen charge counters on other cards.
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I don't think so. They dropped the hybrid reminder after the first block it appeared in, just like equip and other "evergreen" mechanics. Hybrid symbols are a fairly common thing in Magic now.
The problem is that colorless hybrids are relatively new. Again, only 6 cards ever use them. Plus, the do funny things to converted mana costs, which adds additional complexity.
Seems to me all our Common components are 3 or less mana. Most good components are going to be cheap I can see that but don't we want to make drafting component decks involve picking up some Uncommons? I'm thinking things that are little bit less competitively priced, make spike a little sader:
Wind-up Charger 4
Artifact - Component 3: Put a +1/+1 or charge counter on upgraded artifact
Upgrade 4
The Mysterious Tapper 6
Artifact - Component
Whenever Upgraded artifact Untaps, Tap target artifact
Upgrade 3
The problem is two fold. One: we don't have room for bad components. This is a sad but true fact. With only 5 slots at common (an incredibly low number for a debut mechanic). I don't see having all low costs as a problem per say, so I'd rather save expensive components for higher rarities where they can have effects that are relative to their costs.
Second, these kinds of things are usually cheap. Most equipment cost a relatively low amount of mana. When they are expensive, they power up creatures enough to make them very powerful. The difference here is that an artifact on its own is not really a threat, so unlike equipment, powering up an artifact requires a very splashy effect, which again means it would have to be higher up the rarity ladder.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I see how 5 slots limits us but I still feel some of these are too complex and impact-ful for common. Seems to me it might be too easy to draft a contraption deck with all the common contraptions being at or near constructed playable levels.
While I'm on the subject maybe I missed this since the thread is so long and I'm fairly new to it but are we trying to make Steam-flogger Boss work as a re-print? As is now I don't think he does, what does assemble do? When can creatures do it? Or are we abandoning this obvious flavor mine?
Thanks for the answers I'm sure will come.
EDIT: You know what I take it back, after more thought and a little theory crafting I like the cheaper designs for what they do, without the Hybrid mana effects they seem alright to me. I'm big enough to admit when I've changed my mind.
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"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs." -Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
The problem is that colorless hybrids are relatively new. Again, only 6 cards ever use them. Plus, the do funny things to converted mana costs, which adds additional complexity.
They left off the "A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game" when poison finally became set mechanic...
They left off the "A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game" when poison finally became set mechanic...
Remember also that poison counters themselves appear as token-esque cards, which means players can pick them up and learn what poison does. While I don't think understanding "two of any or one of this color" is that hard to understand, I could see confusion when determining cmc
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Well, there would definitely be a "Rules Tip" card that would mention it, plus, if we really think it's that confusing (which it kinda is), we could just not have cards that care about CMC at the lower rarities, or at all (I'm looking at you, Plight of the Commoner).
There's also the issue of players being confused as to wether or not colorless is required. For example, let's say they see a card like Guard in a Box and see it mentions colorless mana. I could see people becoming confused and thinking that (2/W) means colorless, or white, not any 2 and white.
I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, i'm not exactly thrilled about adding the reminder text, but we should at least talk about it.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I couldn't come up with anything so here are my votes...
Builder's Plate2 Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever Upgraded artifact is put into its owner's graveyard, draw a card.
Upgrade 2
As awesome as ever...
Oiled Gears1 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact untaps during each player's untap step.
Upgrade 1
Even more awesome than before...
Windup Key3 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Put a +1/+1 counter or a charge counter on this artifact."
Upgrade 1
I don't really like having charge counters in this set. Could we come up with something else...
Glaring Headlight1 Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Tap target non-artifact creature."
Upgrade 3
I'm quite happy with this one...
Power Regulator1 Artifact - Component [Common]
Upgraded artifact's activated abilities cost less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.
Upgrade
Still loving this card...
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Possibly this, though i'm not so sure. Should we really create a new counter type if it does exactly the same thing as a type that already exists?
Actually, the fact windup key exists is a clear indication that we should just use charge counters. If we use steam counters, it means windup key could only ever interact with cards from this set, which seems a bit disappointing.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I think Drive Chassis had a good idea. and now that Gearpicker Gull is eliminated, we could do something like this:
Familiar Spitter 2
A few small iron constructs are on a machine, looking around. A new one is being made this very moment.
Focus: One little dude hugging the big machine. He seems to have great affection
Artifact- Component
Upgraded Artifact has "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a colorless 0/1 construct token onto the battlefield tapped."
Upgrade 5
Even robots love their mommy.
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
I think "becomes tapped" is a good thing to put on components. It works well with a lot of existing artifacts since most of them become tapped in one way or another, and other components that grant tapping abilities naturally synergize with it well.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
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A Good Place to Start Designing
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
For instance, we could change Headlight to "When this creature untaps, (you may?) tap target creature." It might get too confusing to have tap + untap components, but figured I'd throw the idea out there. Another example:
Battery Pack 3
Artifact - Component (U)
Whenever Upgraded artifact untaps, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Upgrade 3: Untap Upgraded artifact. Use this ability only once per turn.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I thought of this, but i think we should save it for the next set if anything. Untap effects are very uncommon so most people don't even think about them.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
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A Good Place to Start Designing
On your mechanic, I'm not really feeling it. I think the "Equipment for artifacts" version is probably the one we should go with.
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(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
That's good, but it's similar to oiled gears, which I like just a little more. (Remember, this gives you infinite triggers if you put this and Steam Generator on a mana producing artifact.)
Ok here are my "votes":
Builder's Plate 2
Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever Upgraded artifact is put into its owner's graveyard, draw a card.
Upgrade 2
Oiled Gears 1
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact untaps during each player's untap step.
Upgrade 1
(Now colorless!)
Windup Key 3
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Put a +1/+1 counter or a charge counter on this artifact."
Upgrade 1
Glaring Headlight 1
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Tap target non-artifact creature."
Upgrade 3
This costs one so trinket mage can get it. I also suggest we bring the price on coveted seeing stone down to 1 as well. The tragedy of trinket mage in SoM is that IMO, he had nothing to fetch. Let's fix that.
Tick Generator 2
Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, put a 0/1 colorless Pest artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
Upgrade 5
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
Got any ideas? I like spring-coil compartment, but i'm not sure it works as a colorless component.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
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A Good Place to Start Designing
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
To me, Doc Brown falls under the "Mad Scientist" umbrella, but YMMV. Also, I wasn't thinking we should take away the "equipment for artifacts" idea, but rather make some components have an untap clause rather than tap. Just throwing it out there.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You worded your card in a strange way that made the upgrade ability seem like something that's not upgrade, which is why he was confused
Also, I think "mad scientist" can fit a lot of different roles, not just evil alchemy innistrad style scientists. To me the Izzet also count as "mad", though they're not really evil. I think the untapping part works really well for both flavor and mechanics, i just think it should be saved for the next set.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I don't think so. They dropped the hybrid reminder after the first block it appeared in, just like equip and other "evergreen" mechanics. Hybrid symbols are a fairly common thing in Magic now.
Wind-up Charger 4
Artifact - Component
3: Put a +1/+1 or charge counter on upgraded artifact
Upgrade 4
The Mysterious Tapper 6
Artifact - Component
Whenever Upgraded artifact Untaps, Tap target artifact
Upgrade 3
Also this idea is for a rare artifact but I thought I'd spit it out there in case I forget
Solar Panels 4
Artifact
At the beginning of each upkeep untap solar panels.
(2/U),Tap: Put a charge counter on target artifact
(2/W)(2/W): Untap Solar Panels
I'm assuming our (U/W) faction uses charge counters a bit from the flavor and the fact I've seen charge counters on other cards.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
The problem is that colorless hybrids are relatively new. Again, only 6 cards ever use them. Plus, the do funny things to converted mana costs, which adds additional complexity.
The problem is two fold. One: we don't have room for bad components. This is a sad but true fact. With only 5 slots at common (an incredibly low number for a debut mechanic). I don't see having all low costs as a problem per say, so I'd rather save expensive components for higher rarities where they can have effects that are relative to their costs.
Second, these kinds of things are usually cheap. Most equipment cost a relatively low amount of mana. When they are expensive, they power up creatures enough to make them very powerful. The difference here is that an artifact on its own is not really a threat, so unlike equipment, powering up an artifact requires a very splashy effect, which again means it would have to be higher up the rarity ladder.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
While I'm on the subject maybe I missed this since the thread is so long and I'm fairly new to it but are we trying to make Steam-flogger Boss work as a re-print? As is now I don't think he does, what does assemble do? When can creatures do it? Or are we abandoning this obvious flavor mine?
Thanks for the answers I'm sure will come.
EDIT: You know what I take it back, after more thought and a little theory crafting I like the cheaper designs for what they do, without the Hybrid mana effects they seem alright to me. I'm big enough to admit when I've changed my mind.
I second MOON-E's 5 component vote.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
They left off the "A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game" when poison finally became set mechanic...
Remember also that poison counters themselves appear as token-esque cards, which means players can pick them up and learn what poison does. While I don't think understanding "two of any or one of this color" is that hard to understand, I could see confusion when determining cmc
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, i'm not exactly thrilled about adding the reminder text, but we should at least talk about it.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Artifact-Component
If equipped artifact is a creature, it has trample. If it's not it becomes a 3/3 artifact creature.
Upgrade1
This sig is by the amazing Rivenor
A more grokkable version of drive chassis? Perhaps we can rework drive chassis into a rare and make this an uncommon.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Builder's Plate 2
Artifact - Component (C)
Whenever Upgraded artifact is put into its owner's graveyard, draw a card.
Upgrade 2
As awesome as ever...
Oiled Gears 1
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact untaps during each player's untap step.
Upgrade 1
Even more awesome than before...
Windup Key 3
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Put a +1/+1 counter or a charge counter on this artifact."
Upgrade 1
I don't really like having charge counters in this set. Could we come up with something else...
Glaring Headlight 1
Artifact - Component (C)
Upgraded artifact has ",T: Tap target non-artifact creature."
Upgrade 3
I'm quite happy with this one...
Power Regulator 1
Artifact - Component [Common]
Upgraded artifact's activated abilities cost less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.
Upgrade
Still loving this card...
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
Possibly this, though i'm not so sure. Should we really create a new counter type if it does exactly the same thing as a type that already exists?
Actually, the fact windup key exists is a clear indication that we should just use charge counters. If we use steam counters, it means windup key could only ever interact with cards from this set, which seems a bit disappointing.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing