That's a great idea. Any thoughts on how on to approach it? "Assemble" is the obvious keyword -- should it be an alternate casting cost? Provide alternate effects? Make token copies?
I'm also thinking we should consider "disassemble" as the flipside of assemble -- sacrificing the Contraption for a one-off effect? We can also make liberal use of "whenever you (dis)assemble CARDNAME" and, for Riggers, "whenever CARDNAME (dis)assembles a Contraption."
Also, reading this Wizards ruling on Steamflogger Boss brought a smile to my face:
2007/5/1
Contraption is a new artifact type. There are currently no artifacts with this type. And there's no current game meaning of "assemble."
I appreciate you not linking your set, but it piqued my interest and I couldn't help looking it up
I have to say I really like a lot of what you did with Archatmos. Feign is an amazing keyword and your Vehicles explore some interesting design space.
Thank you very much. Feign was one of my favorite aspects of the set (though oddly enough, one of the least Steampunk-themed), but a lot of the rest was honed by this very forum. There are a lot of great minds here and I think they can do a lot of really great things with a concept.
Though I also have to say, my interest in this project may have dropped knowing that there's a completed steampunk set out there....
That shouldn't be. There are often concurrent designs in here (enemy wedges are a big theme we see repeated a lot) and they don't need to be mutually exclusive. Hell, I know I didn't make the definitive Steampunk set and I'm sure there are many things you could do better so don't let anything I did restrain you. Co-opt anything you guys think you could use or refine, I'd be honored by that far more than I'd be happy with a designer losing interest in a project.
The problem with the Custom Set forum is that there are a whole bunch of new MTGS'ers that have a good idea for a set, post a few "example" cards, and then they abandon the project. Believe me, it happened to me too - I've decided to store the set offline. Heck, even experienced MTGS'ers can just abandon a custom set - see Ravnica: City Asunder.
Not to step on anyone's toes, but naturalistic elves seems a little boring. Perhaps this would be good place to showcase the Ouphe creature type. A bunch of green (and red?) ouphes running around a steampunk plane, "throwing wrenches in the works," sounds fun to me.
---
Also, the colorless mana thing interested me quite a bit and since the OP never posted his idea, I'd like to share a couple ideas that popped into my head when I read his brief description of his land idea:
I'm Part of a Cycle!
Land
Add 1 to your mana pool. W, :symtap:: Add 2 to your mana pool.
I'm Part of a Cycle Too!
Land
I'm Part of a Cycle Too! enters the battlefield tapped.
Add W or 2 to your mana pool.
I'm Also Part of a Cycle!
Land
I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield tapped.
When I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield, add 1 to your mana pool.
Add W (or U) to your mana pool.
The mono-color dual land is obviously the most elegant (though it may be a bit powerful), but the others are neat too.
---
This might be a neat card to include too:
Mana Purification Plant1U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
If enchanted land would add colored mana to a player's mana pool, it adds colorless mana instead.
This would be a cool card for a "colorless mana matters" theme because it acts just like a Convincing Mirage when Convincing Mirage can't help you.
I like your first suggestion, but what if it tapped for white? (Would need some other downside to balance it.)
Elves are cliche, but sometimes cliche works. It just seems like such a natural fit that cutting elves for the sake of being original seems somewhat limiting.
However, I love the idea of tiny worker creatures (ouphes? faeries? gremlins? goblins? noggles?)
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Not to step on anyone's toes, but naturalistic elves seems a little boring. Perhaps this would be good place to showcase the Ouphe creature type. A bunch of green (and red?) ouphes running around a steampunk plane, "throwing wrenches in the works," sounds fun to me.
Another under-loved creature type is Gremlins (Only two :crying:). They might be a flavorful substitute for Ouphes.
I'm Also Part of a Cycle!
Land
I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield tapped.
When I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield, add 1 to your mana pool.
Add W or U to your mana pool.
I also like this one. Change the ETB ability to add (Sol Ring) instead of and make the Cycle Rare.
Mana Purification Plant1U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
If enchanted land would add colored mana to a player's mana pool, it adds colorless mana instead.
This would be a cool card for a "colorless mana matters" theme because it acts just like a Convincing Mirage when Convincing Mirage can't help you.
I'd add a cantrip to it and compare it to Spreading Seas.
Bot Factory 2
Artifact (Uncommon)
At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay 3, if you do, put a 0/1 Assembly-Worker artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
The token could probably be a 1/1. Nuisance Engine isn't exactly busted.
Assembler 3
Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker (Uncommon) X, T, Sacrifice three Assembly-Workers: Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost X and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
1/1
This is just kuldotha Forgemaster. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it works well.
Assembly-Worker Overlord 6
Artifact-Creature - Assembly-Worker (Rare)
Artifact spells you cast cost 1 less to play.
Assembly-Workers you control get +1/+1 and gain "T: Add 1 to your mana pool."
3/4
I don't like this because since colorless mana is one of the major themes reducing colorless mana for artifacts only might confuse some people. IDK I could be competely off base but if a card is going to reduce mana in this set it should reduce everything. (And simultaneously if something increases one thing's mana it should increase everything.)
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Another under-loved creature type is Gremlins (Only two :crying:). They might be a flavorful substitute for Ouphes.
Gremilns are the better choice, though I was worried that they seem to fit more into (B/R). Not that they could be shifted to G, even if only for this set/block. I suppose malevolent mischief does fit into green, so long as it's malevolent mischief aimed at artifact.
I really like this. Common cycle?
I like it too, I just worry that a deck playing 4x of three of these would have a lot of colorless mana ramp. Is the mana being colorless (which isn't such a bad thing here) and all their lands ETBT enough of a drawback?
I'd add a cantrip to it and compare it to Spreading Seas.
Great idea. I forgot Spreading Seas cantripped (which is silly, since I love that card. :p).
I don't like this because since colorless mana is one of the major themes reducing colorless mana for artifacts only might confuse some people. IDK I could be competely off base but if a card is going to reduce mana in this set it should reduce everything. (And simultaneously if something increases one thing's mana it should increase everything.)
I agree that reducing costs is counter productive here (or, at least, should be). Also, pumping Assembly-Workers and giving them a manatap seems like one of those taboo "encouraging player to attack and not attack at the same time" things. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
Regardless, this seems a lot cooler as a lord (assuming they don't all have the Assembly-Worker ability by default):
Line Boss5
Creature - Assembly-Worker
Other Assembly-Workers you control have ":symtap:: Target Assembly-Worker creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn" and ":symtap:: Add 1 to your mana pool."
2/2
Gameplay Themes
- Colorless mana matters.
- Colorless hybrid mana (:sym2w::sym2u::sym2b::sym2r::sym2g:) and, in general, equating two colorless mana to one colored mana (e.g. Basic Land Collector's "W or 2" cycle, which I love).
- Contraptions and/or vehicles and/or guns -- an artifact emphasis unlike the artifact emphasis of Mirrodin or Esper.
Color Groups
I think we're all in agreement that the five allied-color groups are each well-defined within our steampunk setting (off-topic: we're getting close to the point at which we need to commit to the project and take votes on things like these). But, I've noticed some ideas in this thread that don't quite line up with a particular allied-color group, and are more monocolored. I started thinking about it, and noticed that some of these monocolored ideas "splinter" off of the color pair opposite them. My thought is that we focus primarily on the allied-color pairs (give them their own names, their own backstories, possibly their own mechanics, etc.) while touching on these "splinter" groups with a couple of cards here and there. Thoughts?
:symwu:: Victorian high society and royalty, and the light side of invention and technological progress, with inventors like Charles Babbage and inventions like the difference engine -- structured and for the good of humanity. Humans and Aven (I think semi-intelligent Griffins are a good fit alongside Aven, too), with Constructs (clockwork automatons are most at home here). Anything else?
R "splinter": Gremlins are a great fit here (thanks, Raptor) because they love machines -- I'm imagining a bunch of the little devils dismantling machines built by the higher-class inventors and hobbling together fun Contraptions of their own. And speaking of Contraptions, I think we can keep Riggers in red and make Gremlins the primary Rigger race.
:symub:: Industry barons and the lower classes they essentially "control" through factories -- and the pollution these factories cause. Humans, Assembly-Workers, Constructs, Juggernauts, and probably some other major race?
G "splinter": The story of the peppered moth is what I'm getting at here. Industry and pollution cause the world to change, and nature adapts to it -- sometimes in a toxic manner.
:symbr:: Desert inhabitants who make the frontier a very lawless place. Humans and possibly...Viashino? (I also like MOON-E's Vulturefolk suggestion.)
W "splinter": Desert law enforcers, some of whom pursue justice using chaotic means and some of whom pursue it to self-serving ends. Basically, vigilantes.
:symrg:: Halfway between the Gruul and the Luddites. They love to smash and shatter things, but they do so with an anti-industrial ideology; they hate the way their world has evolved into a steampunk world and hate those who catalyzed that change. Gremlins can go here, too, along with Humans and...what else?
U "splinter": Doc Browns. These guys are detached from the Victorian high society of inventors, and rather absent-minded, but have a passion for science. They're the flipside of the Luddite-types: rather than railing against the machinery that has changed their lives, they progressively change their own lives to accommodate machinery.
:symgw:: The naturalistic communities of the desert/frontier. Are we in agreement with Elves? (I understand your concern, Basic Land Collector, but I think Elves are only as cliched as we make them -- these Elves can be steampunk Elves, unlike those of Dominaria or Lorwyn). Humans are a good fit here, too.
B "splinter": Well this is the only one I don't have ideas for, and I don't think it's really been touched on in this topic. Any ideas? I think we should try to make this work if we like the rest of the splinters.
@TMCT: Wow, I love your "splinter group" idea. It fits perfectly.
WG, B Splinter: I think someone mentioned earlier the idea of mutated animals. The pollution from the cities has warped the wildlife into horrible creatures, threatening the elves' way of life.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Gameplay Themes
- Colorless mana matters.
- Colorless hybrid mana (:sym2w::sym2u::sym2b::sym2r::sym2g:) and, in general, equating two colorless mana to one colored mana (e.g. Basic Land Collector's "W or 2" cycle, which I love).
- Contraptions and/or vehicles and/or guns -- an artifact emphasis unlike the artifact emphasis of Mirrodin or Esper.
Color Groups
I think we're all in agreement that the five allied-color groups are each well-defined within our steampunk setting (off-topic: we're getting close to the point at which we need to commit to the project and take votes on things like these). But, I've noticed some ideas in this thread that don't quite line up with a particular allied-color group, and are more monocolored. I started thinking about it, and noticed that some of these monocolored ideas "splinter" off of the color pair opposite them. My thought is that we focus primarily on the allied-color pairs (give them their own names, their own backstories, possibly their own mechanics, etc.) while touching on these "splinter" groups with a couple of cards here and there. Thoughts?
:symwu:: Victorian high society and royalty, and the light side of invention and technological progress, with inventors like Charles Babbage and inventions like the difference engine -- structured and for the good of humanity. Humans and Aven (I think semi-intelligent Griffins are a good fit alongside Aven, too), with Constructs (clockwork automatons are most at home here). Anything else?
R "splinter": Gremlins are a great fit here (thanks, Raptor) because they love machines -- I'm imagining a bunch of the little devils dismantling machines built by the higher-class inventors and hobbling together fun Contraptions of their own. And speaking of Contraptions, I think we can keep Riggers in red and make Gremlins the primary Rigger race.
:symub:: Industry barons and the lower classes they essentially "control" through factories -- and the pollution these factories cause. Humans, Assembly-Workers, Constructs, Juggernauts, and probably some other major race?
G "splinter": The story of the peppered moth is what I'm getting at here. Industry and pollution cause the world to change, and nature adapts to it -- sometimes in a toxic manner.
:symbr:: Desert inhabitants who make the frontier a very lawless place. Humans and possibly...Viashino? (I also like MOON-E's Vulturefolk suggestion.)
W "splinter": Desert law enforcers, some of whom pursue justice using chaotic means and some of whom pursue it to self-serving ends. Basically, vigilantes.
:symrg:: Halfway between the Gruul and the Luddites. They love to smash and shatter things, but they do so with an anti-industrial ideology; they hate the way their world has evolved into a steampunk world and hate those who catalyzed that change. Gremlins can go here, too, along with Humans and...what else?
U "splinter": Doc Browns. These guys are detached from the Victorian high society of inventors, and rather absent-minded, but have a passion for science. They're the flipside of the Luddite-types: rather than railing against the machinery that has changed their lives, they progressively change their own lives to accommodate machinery.
:symgw:: The naturalistic communities of the desert/frontier. Are we in agreement with Elves? (I understand your concern, Basic Land Collector, but I think Elves are only as cliched as we make them -- these Elves can be steampunk Elves, unlike those of Dominaria or Lorwyn). Humans are a good fit here, too.
B "splinter": Well this is the only one I don't have ideas for, and I don't think it's really been touched on in this topic. Any ideas? I think we should try to make this work if we like the rest of the splinters.
I think all of those are great. Great Job Curious. Unfortunately I don't have any idea for the "splinter"
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:symwu:: Victorian high society and royalty, and the light side of invention and technological progress, with inventors like Charles Babbage and inventions like the difference engine -- structured and for the good of humanity.
R "splinter": Gremlins are a great fit here (thanks, Raptor) because they love machines -- I'm imagining a bunch of the little devils dismantling machines built by the higher-class inventors and hobbling together fun Contraptions of their own. And speaking of Contraptions, I think we can keep Riggers in red and make Gremlins the primary Rigger race.
This is genius. I know it's genius because reading gave me an idea for how to represent it mechanically. (Un)Fortunately, a quick reread of the thread showed that my idea had already been posted.
I'm also thinking we should consider "disassemble" as the flipside of assemble -- sacrificing the Contraption for a one-off effect? We can also make liberal use of "whenever you (dis)assemble CARDNAME" and, for Riggers, "whenever CARDNAME (dis)assembles a Contraption."
Since we will need to come up with how contraptions will work, and my idea differs from The Most Curious Thing's a bit, I'll post mine in a little more detail. To help cement the idea of the gremlins sabotaging the (W/U) artifacts to make their own, we should find a design that allows them to disassemble normal artifacts and use that to somehow assemble the contraptions.
Also of note, as The Most Curious Thing conformed to, is that fact that we don't assemble the contraptions, the riggers do. Steamflogger Boss specifically says "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption," not "If you would assemble a contraption." Something to keep in mind as we design it.
That said, if we're using gremlins in R, which makes sense, ouphes in G will feel redundant, so elves it is.
I have a thought, but it's not too well thought out, so feel free to pick it apart. What if the B splinter group is made up of twisted engineers and necromancers living in the slums of the main city and the backwater fens of the frontier that use clockwork and steam to enhance, augment, and reanimate the dead and those who have been mutated by the pollutions of the barons (id est, those that couldn't adapt)?
This would put the group in direct opposition of the (G/W) elves, who may have an affinty (not the mechanic) for growing things, including wood and other non-metallic materials. Perhaps the elves could then have a small colored mana or basic land theme. Colorless "wooden" artifacts with the Imperiosaur ability maybe? This would also help separate them from the "smash 'fact" mentality of (R/G).
Also, perhaps it would be neat to have the main groups be the focus of the first set, with the splinter groups and the conflict they create coming into play as the block progresses. Maybe Riggers and Contraptions can be alluded to in the first set, but not show up until the second and third. Depending on how we end up doing it, it might be possible to have the gremlins start disassembling artifacts in the first set (as some sort of artifact "removal" and use the use disassembled artifacts to assemble contraptions in the later sets.
EDIT: Also, since we follow Wizard's design standards (such as not mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters), it would be hypocritical to not have a returning mechanic. I feel that although most of the mechanics we've discussed so far are based on already printed cards, they don't count as a return mechanic. I feel this because the point of returning mechanics is to preserve design space. Fleshing out a mechanic that only appeared on a card or two doesn't do this, so we should think of one to bring back.
Good suggestion about the splinter group Basic. I'm currently working on the Design Skeleton, if you guys want me to post what ive gotten so far I will.
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"Assemble" is the obvious keyword -- should it be an alternate casting cost? Provide alternate effects? Make token copies?
I'm also thinking we should consider "disassemble" as the flipside of assemble -- sacrificing the Contraption for a one-off effect? We can also make liberal use of "whenever you (dis)assemble CARDNAME" and, for Riggers, "whenever CARDNAME (dis)assembles a Contraption."
Perhaps Contraptions could be simple: "assemble a contraption" = "put a 0/1 colorless Contraption artifact creature into play."
For an innovation for the set, I was thinking of using "artifact mana" - a cost that basically means "pay or tap an untapped artifact you control"? That feels like it'd require balancing.
Having lots of Contraptions, Assembly-Workers, "passive" Artifacts, and Equipment works well for this - instead of Mirrodin, which emphasized artifact-creatures and metallic-lifeforms, this is a world where people just use artifacts as tools of progress. The people here aren't metallic in nature, nor is there a thriving artifact-creature ecosystem.
The flavor there is pretty good, I feel. Equipment requires a creature to attach to -- Assembly-Workers (which is a FANTASTIC suggestion) are servants and worthless on their own, generally -- and Contraptions have to be built by something else, and their main purpose is to act as fodder for their masters.
The more 'constructive' artifact types (:symu: and :symw:) would probably enjoy making Contraptions, and using them for passive effects, like "artifact-mana" or blockers.
The more 'destructive' artifact type (:symr:) would use them as fuel, by disassembling them for fodder or for scrounging out their parts (to make better things).
and are the outliers, there -- I personally feel enjoys Equipment (which synergize with creatures well).
being based around artificial enhancement and horribly-mutilating the boundary between life and death also fits well with Equipment. Think Nim Deathmantle, or Demonmail Hauberk.
Hopefully this is a helpful suggestion! I really do like the idea of a Steampunk set, and you guys are going places, I can tell. I'd be glad to hop in and assist with this.
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Good suggestion about the splinter group Basic. I'm currently working on the Design Skeleton, if you guys want me to post what ive gotten so far I will.
Thanks!
I look forward to seeing it. I'm a huge fan of steampunk things as well and I love that we've managed to fit both the Victorian style and the wild West style into one cohesive setting.
It would be an honor to be on the design team for this, since the OP seems to have just been an idea plug. Also, I agree that a new thread might be a good idea, but also agree that we should wait until we have our basic idea decided upon.
What would the symbol look like or would it be a just a sentence on the card(s)? Some thing like this...
Tapstone Artifact
You may tap an untapped artifact you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
When Tapstone enters the battlefield, draw a card if an artifact you control is tapped.
I'd prefer my version instead of a new symbol, etc...
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I imagined the symbol as a grey-circle with a gear in it, to help save text-space and such on the higher rarities. And remember, it could be used for activated-abilities in higher-rarities as well!
And thanks for the compliment, BlackVise!
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How exactly are you making a design skeleton? I think at this point we've established that mono-hybrid mana is going to play a role in this set. IMO, we should hold off making a design skeleton until we nail down exactly what we want that to be. (Will there be a lot of mono hybrids? Will they all be artifacts? are they even in all colors? Do they even appear in mana costs, or only on activated abilities? etc.)
Artifact mana sounds cool, but i'm not sure how balanced it would be.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
For an innovation for the set, I was thinking of using "artifact mana" - a cost that basically means "pay or tap an untapped artifact you control"? That feels like it'd require balancing.
This feels like a slightly less broken form of Affinity for artifacts. As an affinity player, even Raptor1210's Tapstone looks like this common custom card to me:
Name
Sorcery
Cycling 0
Except now it's boosts my artifact count to boot!
Although, the idea of a grey symbols with a gear in it makes me smile, I don't really like it as a mechanic that would appear in larger numbers.
Perhaps this variation would be cool on a card or two, maybe even a cycle:
"You may tap a number of untapped artifacts you control equal to ~'s converted mana cost rather than pay ~'s mana cost."
It's plays (at least on paper) like affinity for artifacts that is either all or nothing, allowing lower mana costs, and doesn't let me drop my hand in one turn. Thoughts?
How exactly are you making a design skeleton? I think at this point we've established that mono-hybrid mana is going to play a role in this set. IMO, we should hold off making a design skeleton until we nail down exactly what we want that to be. (Will there be a lot of mono hybrids? Will they all be artifacts? are they even in all colors? Do they even appear in mana costs, or only on activated abilities? etc.)
Agreed. (Though you should post your ideas anyways. They may help. :))
As for the mono hybrids, we should figure out what kind of things it will represent. I think we've come to the conclusion that colorless mana is going to represent mana-steam here, so how does that translate to mono hybrids?
If the idea is that one colored mana is equal to two colorless mana, which I agree with, there needs to be an incentive to use colorless mana on the mono hybrids beyond playing them in off-color decks.
Well, I probably should have mentioned... I was only imagining artifact-mana on colored cards! It'd represent the inventions and tools of the society being harnessed for power and energy. (If you can't tell, flavor is a big thing for me)
Here are some examples:
Steam Blast
Instant
Steam Blast deals 2 damage to up to two target creatures.
Something along those lines.
On instants / sorceries, it represents magic and technology mixing and mingling.
On creatures, it'd just represent a tool being used, or technological-influence making artifacts necessary for existence. For instance:
Security Guard
Creature - Human Soldier
, :symtap:: Tap target creature.
1/1
(Sorry the alignment is a little messed up with the icon. I just quickly grabbed it for example purposes.)
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Fun Fact: The MSE extra mana symbol add-on includes that gear symbol.
As for examples on how mono-hybrid mana could be used, here are some examples:
Shut-in Sheriff1W
Creature - Human Soldier (2/W),T: Tap target creature if it doesn't share a color with the mana spent to activate this ability.
1/2 Xenophobic lawmen are quick to accuse outsiders but do nothing to stop local bandits
Trailblazer Scout(2/G)(2/G)
Creature - Elf Scout
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
2/1
Hired Gun(2/B)
Creature - Human Mercenary
When ~ enters the battlefield, if B was spent to cast it, it deals 2 damage to you.
2/1 Whoever said good help is hard to find has never had to deal with bad help.
Buckshot(2/R)
Instant
~ deals X+1 damage to target creature or player, where X is the amount of red mana spent to cast ~.
Frontier Mirage
Land ,T: Add U or 2 to your mana pool. For the weary traveler, nothing is as refreshing as a mouthful of sand.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Those look familiar. I think I saw them in another thread?
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Perhaps it could depend on color? Some colors prefer colorless, others prefer using their own color?
Maybe even depend on faction.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Maybe we should give it another day?
That's a great idea. Any thoughts on how on to approach it? "Assemble" is the obvious keyword -- should it be an alternate casting cost? Provide alternate effects? Make token copies?
I'm also thinking we should consider "disassemble" as the flipside of assemble -- sacrificing the Contraption for a one-off effect? We can also make liberal use of "whenever you (dis)assemble CARDNAME" and, for Riggers, "whenever CARDNAME (dis)assembles a Contraption."
Also, reading this Wizards ruling on Steamflogger Boss brought a smile to my face:
Thank you very much. Feign was one of my favorite aspects of the set (though oddly enough, one of the least Steampunk-themed), but a lot of the rest was honed by this very forum. There are a lot of great minds here and I think they can do a lot of really great things with a concept.
That shouldn't be. There are often concurrent designs in here (enemy wedges are a big theme we see repeated a lot) and they don't need to be mutually exclusive. Hell, I know I didn't make the definitive Steampunk set and I'm sure there are many things you could do better so don't let anything I did restrain you. Co-opt anything you guys think you could use or refine, I'd be honored by that far more than I'd be happy with a designer losing interest in a project.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Simply put, you have to commit to a set project.
---
Also, the colorless mana thing interested me quite a bit and since the OP never posted his idea, I'd like to share a couple ideas that popped into my head when I read his brief description of his land idea:
I'm Part of a Cycle!
Land
Add 1 to your mana pool.
W, :symtap:: Add 2 to your mana pool.
I'm Part of a Cycle Too!
Land
I'm Part of a Cycle Too! enters the battlefield tapped.
Add W or 2 to your mana pool.
I'm Also Part of a Cycle!
Land
I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield tapped.
When I'm Also Part of a Cycle! enters the battlefield, add 1 to your mana pool.
Add W (or U) to your mana pool.
The mono-color dual land is obviously the most elegant (though it may be a bit powerful), but the others are neat too.
---
This might be a neat card to include too:
Mana Purification Plant 1U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
If enchanted land would add colored mana to a player's mana pool, it adds colorless mana instead.
This would be a cool card for a "colorless mana matters" theme because it acts just like a Convincing Mirage when Convincing Mirage can't help you.
Elves are cliche, but sometimes cliche works. It just seems like such a natural fit that cutting elves for the sake of being original seems somewhat limiting.
However, I love the idea of tiny worker creatures (ouphes? faeries? gremlins? goblins? noggles?)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Another under-loved creature type is Gremlins (Only two :crying:). They might be a flavorful substitute for Ouphes.
I really like this. Common cycle?
I also like this one. Change the ETB ability to add (Sol Ring) instead of and make the Cycle Rare.
I'd add a cantrip to it and compare it to Spreading Seas.
I agree they are a perfect fit. Great idea.
The token could probably be a 1/1. Nuisance Engine isn't exactly busted.
This is just kuldotha Forgemaster. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it works well.
I don't like this because since colorless mana is one of the major themes reducing colorless mana for artifacts only might confuse some people. IDK I could be competely off base but if a card is going to reduce mana in this set it should reduce everything. (And simultaneously if something increases one thing's mana it should increase everything.)
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Gremilns are the better choice, though I was worried that they seem to fit more into (B/R). Not that they could be shifted to G, even if only for this set/block. I suppose malevolent mischief does fit into green, so long as it's malevolent mischief aimed at artifact.
I like it too, I just worry that a deck playing 4x of three of these would have a lot of colorless mana ramp. Is the mana being colorless (which isn't such a bad thing here) and all their lands ETBT enough of a drawback?
Great idea. I forgot Spreading Seas cantripped (which is silly, since I love that card. :p).
I agree that reducing costs is counter productive here (or, at least, should be). Also, pumping Assembly-Workers and giving them a manatap seems like one of those taboo "encouraging player to attack and not attack at the same time" things. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
Regardless, this seems a lot cooler as a lord (assuming they don't all have the Assembly-Worker ability by default):
Line Boss 5
Creature - Assembly-Worker
Other Assembly-Workers you control have ":symtap:: Target Assembly-Worker creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn" and ":symtap:: Add 1 to your mana pool."
2/2
Gameplay Themes
- Colorless mana matters.
- Colorless hybrid mana (:sym2w::sym2u::sym2b::sym2r::sym2g:) and, in general, equating two colorless mana to one colored mana (e.g. Basic Land Collector's "W or 2" cycle, which I love).
- Contraptions and/or vehicles and/or guns -- an artifact emphasis unlike the artifact emphasis of Mirrodin or Esper.
Color Groups
I think we're all in agreement that the five allied-color groups are each well-defined within our steampunk setting (off-topic: we're getting close to the point at which we need to commit to the project and take votes on things like these). But, I've noticed some ideas in this thread that don't quite line up with a particular allied-color group, and are more monocolored. I started thinking about it, and noticed that some of these monocolored ideas "splinter" off of the color pair opposite them. My thought is that we focus primarily on the allied-color pairs (give them their own names, their own backstories, possibly their own mechanics, etc.) while touching on these "splinter" groups with a couple of cards here and there. Thoughts?
:symwu:: Victorian high society and royalty, and the light side of invention and technological progress, with inventors like Charles Babbage and inventions like the difference engine -- structured and for the good of humanity. Humans and Aven (I think semi-intelligent Griffins are a good fit alongside Aven, too), with Constructs (clockwork automatons are most at home here). Anything else?
:symub:: Industry barons and the lower classes they essentially "control" through factories -- and the pollution these factories cause. Humans, Assembly-Workers, Constructs, Juggernauts, and probably some other major race?
:symbr:: Desert inhabitants who make the frontier a very lawless place. Humans and possibly...Viashino? (I also like MOON-E's Vulturefolk suggestion.)
:symrg:: Halfway between the Gruul and the Luddites. They love to smash and shatter things, but they do so with an anti-industrial ideology; they hate the way their world has evolved into a steampunk world and hate those who catalyzed that change. Gremlins can go here, too, along with Humans and...what else?
:symgw:: The naturalistic communities of the desert/frontier. Are we in agreement with Elves? (I understand your concern, Basic Land Collector, but I think Elves are only as cliched as we make them -- these Elves can be steampunk Elves, unlike those of Dominaria or Lorwyn). Humans are a good fit here, too.
WG, B Splinter: I think someone mentioned earlier the idea of mutated animals. The pollution from the cities has warped the wildlife into horrible creatures, threatening the elves' way of life.
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Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I think all of those are great. Great Job Curious. Unfortunately I don't have any idea for the "splinter"
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This is genius. I know it's genius because reading gave me an idea for how to represent it mechanically. (Un)Fortunately, a quick reread of the thread showed that my idea had already been posted.
Since we will need to come up with how contraptions will work, and my idea differs from The Most Curious Thing's a bit, I'll post mine in a little more detail. To help cement the idea of the gremlins sabotaging the (W/U) artifacts to make their own, we should find a design that allows them to disassemble normal artifacts and use that to somehow assemble the contraptions.
Also of note, as The Most Curious Thing conformed to, is that fact that we don't assemble the contraptions, the riggers do. Steamflogger Boss specifically says "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption," not "If you would assemble a contraption." Something to keep in mind as we design it.
That said, if we're using gremlins in R, which makes sense, ouphes in G will feel redundant, so elves it is.
I have a thought, but it's not too well thought out, so feel free to pick it apart. What if the B splinter group is made up of twisted engineers and necromancers living in the slums of the main city and the backwater fens of the frontier that use clockwork and steam to enhance, augment, and reanimate the dead and those who have been mutated by the pollutions of the barons (id est, those that couldn't adapt)?
This would put the group in direct opposition of the (G/W) elves, who may have an affinty (not the mechanic) for growing things, including wood and other non-metallic materials. Perhaps the elves could then have a small colored mana or basic land theme. Colorless "wooden" artifacts with the Imperiosaur ability maybe? This would also help separate them from the "smash 'fact" mentality of (R/G).
Also, perhaps it would be neat to have the main groups be the focus of the first set, with the splinter groups and the conflict they create coming into play as the block progresses. Maybe Riggers and Contraptions can be alluded to in the first set, but not show up until the second and third. Depending on how we end up doing it, it might be possible to have the gremlins start disassembling artifacts in the first set (as some sort of artifact "removal" and use the use disassembled artifacts to assemble contraptions in the later sets.
EDIT: Also, since we follow Wizard's design standards (such as not mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters), it would be hypocritical to not have a returning mechanic. I feel that although most of the mechanics we've discussed so far are based on already printed cards, they don't count as a return mechanic. I feel this because the point of returning mechanics is to preserve design space. Fleshing out a mechanic that only appeared on a card or two doesn't do this, so we should think of one to bring back.
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Perhaps Contraptions could be simple: "assemble a contraption" = "put a 0/1 colorless Contraption artifact creature into play."
For an innovation for the set, I was thinking of using "artifact mana" - a cost that basically means "pay or tap an untapped artifact you control"? That feels like it'd require balancing.
Having lots of Contraptions, Assembly-Workers, "passive" Artifacts, and Equipment works well for this - instead of Mirrodin, which emphasized artifact-creatures and metallic-lifeforms, this is a world where people just use artifacts as tools of progress. The people here aren't metallic in nature, nor is there a thriving artifact-creature ecosystem.
The flavor there is pretty good, I feel. Equipment requires a creature to attach to -- Assembly-Workers (which is a FANTASTIC suggestion) are servants and worthless on their own, generally -- and Contraptions have to be built by something else, and their main purpose is to act as fodder for their masters.
The more 'constructive' artifact types (:symu: and :symw:) would probably enjoy making Contraptions, and using them for passive effects, like "artifact-mana" or blockers.
The more 'destructive' artifact type (:symr:) would use them as fuel, by disassembling them for fodder or for scrounging out their parts (to make better things).
and are the outliers, there -- I personally feel enjoys Equipment (which synergize with creatures well).
being based around artificial enhancement and horribly-mutilating the boundary between life and death also fits well with Equipment. Think Nim Deathmantle, or Demonmail Hauberk.
Hopefully this is a helpful suggestion! I really do like the idea of a Steampunk set, and you guys are going places, I can tell. I'd be glad to hop in and assist with this.
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Thanks!
I look forward to seeing it. I'm a huge fan of steampunk things as well and I love that we've managed to fit both the Victorian style and the wild West style into one cohesive setting.
It would be an honor to be on the design team for this, since the OP seems to have just been an idea plug. Also, I agree that a new thread might be a good idea, but also agree that we should wait until we have our basic idea decided upon.
(This is gonna be so much fun! :D)
Tapstone
Artifact
You may tap an untapped artifact you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
When Tapstone enters the battlefield, draw a card if an artifact you control is tapped.
I'd prefer my version instead of a new symbol, etc...
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Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
And thanks for the compliment, BlackVise!
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Artifact mana sounds cool, but i'm not sure how balanced it would be.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
This feels like a slightly less broken form of Affinity for artifacts. As an affinity player, even Raptor1210's Tapstone looks like this common custom card to me:
Name
Sorcery
Cycling 0
Except now it's boosts my artifact count to boot!
Although, the idea of a grey symbols with a gear in it makes me smile, I don't really like it as a mechanic that would appear in larger numbers.
Perhaps this variation would be cool on a card or two, maybe even a cycle:
"You may tap a number of untapped artifacts you control equal to ~'s converted mana cost rather than pay ~'s mana cost."
It's plays (at least on paper) like affinity for artifacts that is either all or nothing, allowing lower mana costs, and doesn't let me drop my hand in one turn. Thoughts?
Agreed. (Though you should post your ideas anyways. They may help. :))
As for the mono hybrids, we should figure out what kind of things it will represent. I think we've come to the conclusion that colorless mana is going to represent mana-steam here, so how does that translate to mono hybrids?
If the idea is that one colored mana is equal to two colorless mana, which I agree with, there needs to be an incentive to use colorless mana on the mono hybrids beyond playing them in off-color decks.
Here are some examples:
Steam Blast
Instant
Steam Blast deals 2 damage to up to two target creatures.
Something along those lines.
On instants / sorceries, it represents magic and technology mixing and mingling.
On creatures, it'd just represent a tool being used, or technological-influence making artifacts necessary for existence. For instance:
Security Guard
Creature - Human Soldier
, :symtap:: Tap target creature.
1/1
(Sorry the alignment is a little messed up with the icon. I just quickly grabbed it for example purposes.)
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As for examples on how mono-hybrid mana could be used, here are some examples:
Shut-in Sheriff 1W
Creature - Human Soldier
(2/W),T: Tap target creature if it doesn't share a color with the mana spent to activate this ability.
1/2
Xenophobic lawmen are quick to accuse outsiders but do nothing to stop local bandits
Trailblazer Scout (2/G)(2/G)
Creature - Elf Scout
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
2/1
Hired Gun (2/B)
Creature - Human Mercenary
When ~ enters the battlefield, if B was spent to cast it, it deals 2 damage to you.
2/1
Whoever said good help is hard to find has never had to deal with bad help.
Buckshot (2/R)
Instant
~ deals X+1 damage to target creature or player, where X is the amount of red mana spent to cast ~.
Frontier Mirage
Land
,T: Add U or 2 to your mana pool.
For the weary traveler, nothing is as refreshing as a mouthful of sand.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
Yes, I posted them earlier. I thought it would be easier to repost them rather than link to an old thread.
I think we should try to have a good mix of cards that reward colors (Buckshot) and Colorless (Sheriff).
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Maybe even depend on faction.
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing