I don't think #3 is well-balanced. I think #2 is best. Giving up a whole mana a turn to gain a little life isn't too strong, but it's a nice effect for longer games. Some decks will want to use it, others would just prefer the colored mana from a basic. Gaining 2 or 3 life would add up too quickly, on the other hand, so I think you have it just about right.
#1 would still feel slightly viable for some slow decks, but is pretty weak. It can be stronger (#2) without being overpowering.
i want to go for #2, but i'm not quite comfortable with it. #1 seems safe
i want someone talk me into #2
If I recall, effects that could go on an artifact for 2 mana could be put onto lands, as a base-line. If you look at tanglebloom, you see paying one mana to gain one life. #2 lets you pay a mana (the mana you could be using from the land) to gain a life. It seems reasonable to me.
Yeah, #2 seems fine. #1 is weak, even if Fountain of Youth says otherwise (there's a reason that the Fountain's never been considered tech). #3 could be viable if you added some cost to it, like made it an artifact (aka Pristine Talisman) maybe giving it some sort of delay (like entering the battlefield tapped (even that seems way too strong), or giving it counters and only works when there's no counters on it, etc.)
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I would definitely say that #1 is the best option.
#2 has such potential to completely ruin control matchups, not to mention give red fits.
vs control
Player A: "What's the life?"
Player B: "28, 34"
Judge: "Turns!"
Players: "FFFFFFFFUUUU..."
vs aggro
Player A: "Goblin guide?"
Player B: "Land, go to 19?"
Player A: "FFFFFFUUUUUU..."
I mean... Glimmerpost was clearly not well thought out BUT the card was good enough where the idea of playing it in a nonmean way wasn't so incredibly stupid. I get to play magic with 21 or 23 life? Ok.
Land #2 takes that and goes "23? Off of one land? Nah man, think big!". In control I can definitely see people using this on turn 1 and 2, using turn three and four and five for important things, and then having an extra land lying around to tick up your life with for the rest of the match. It's self perpetuating. If it gets you, say, 5 life and your opponent deals you 23, well If they don't draw that bolt fast you'll be out of range in a hurry. TL;DR
#2 is busted because it's way too easy and invalidates the "philosophy of fire" too hard.
#1 is fair. You get two life or maybe even three in a normal control vs. creatures game of magic. Maybe even four!. It's possibly underpowered, but it is certainly printable.
Only reason why fountain of youth is costed as such is because you can put down four of them on turn one, when happy land could only be put down once per turn and prevents other lands from entering. You are giving up an entire turn for a mana source basically, so land #2 is fine.
If someone plays four fountains of youth they're going to lose immediately. Fountain of youth does not make mana. A land is not virtually card disadvantage. Mana rocks take up a turn of mana. Comparing a land to a mana rock or to a 0 cost artifact is missing the point entirely. Lands have to be judged as lands, not against nonland cards
Look at my examples.
How would an aggressive deck beat a control deck that starting on turn one had the ability to gain a life for 1 mana per turn cycle? Seriously ponder that. Will you ever beat them if they stabilize? No, never. Never. You cannot draw enough burn to keep them from getting out of range.
Even worse, imagine getting two in the opener.
That's
1: Land: gain 1 life
2: Land: gain two life
3: Block dual land: Ponder, gain two life
4: Plains: Day of judgment
5: Island: Counterspell/Draw spell/Wall, gain 2 life
6: No land: Anything, gain two life...
...What?
People are seriously defending this series of events?
Seriously?
This card would take a stupid amount of pressure off of the control player. He basically would start at 26 or more with one copy.
Or in a control matchup. One could easily see someone gaining 10 or more life off of one land over the course of a game. One land. It isn't even that hard to imagine once in a best of three there being a player who manages to find three copies in one game. Guess which player can't lose?
White Temple
Legendary Land T: Add W to your manapool. If you have less life than an opponent, you gain 1 life.
And this card was crazy good, so strong any controll deck badly wanted it.
More or less what karakas is, a land with pretty much no drawback (other than being legendary, which is negliable).
*Ofcourse similiar stuff was done for each color, with different conditions for a bonus effect, but all quite good (even the Kamigawa legend land cycle is nearly above standard lands, with the only drawback being legendary).
For the card here, a problem is that "1 life" is really a strong ability, while it "looks" not strong.
If you ever played against pristine talisman you quickly see how powerfull the 1 life is.
It can will not gain much right away, but you have a endless stream and its an uphill battle for your opponent.
Against aggressive decks its a blowout if the lifegain starts right away.
It "must" have an additional manacost, otherwise the card is boring to play against, as it pretty much turns into a land that will allways tap for life and just for mana if you badly need it.
The lands that simply give +1 life and thats it, can be a full turn you survive longer, and that alone decides a game.
A single point of life can totally mess with the game.
if you start virtually with 21+ life your opponents "aggro" deck might fail to beat you.
The single point of life feels in this case, like the problem with "mill".
It either matters that you survived on 1 life, or it does not and the effect virtually was meaningless.
Happy Land Most basic form
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield you gain 1 life.
: Add to your mana pool.
Thats more or less what the Glimmerpost is, in a basic bad form.
So we know we can make it stronger (as long as its not a locus, which made Glimmerpost so good in constructed).
Happy Land Repeatable Form
Land
Whenever ~ or another land enters the battlefield you gain 1 life.
: Add to your mana pool.
Stronger, more or less a landfall trigger to gain life, but not just for your lands, all lands.
A lot stronger in Multiplayer, and possible a more "enjoyable" form as its not endless (your opponent can at least decide to not play lands to kill you).
The land would be very strong in Ramp decks, possible a blowout lifegain with Scapeshift, so in this form it allready becomes "rare" quality and is near the edge of "really good".
Happy Land Repeatable Form
Land
: Add to your mana pool. 3, : You gain 1 life.
A way higher cost to start with.
It still works in Limited.
In a lategame it starts to make life each turn, easily a valueable card, if the set has some form of "lifegain matters" the value jumps up, the same as Phyrexian Core profits from the artifact matters and the cards that want to be sacrificed.
In a vacuum, this activation cost is high, the card still does what it wants, but its a land, the effect should not be too annoying.
Happy Land Shard Form
Land
: Add to your mana pool. 3, OR W, : You gain 1 life.
This way its a "shard" like design ala Crystal Shard, which gives the ability to white as a lifegain effect, and for more mana to everyone, which directly hints to an cycle of lands for every color with super small effect that profit for being a color.
Happy Land 2
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
: Gain 1 life.
Here everyone that votes for this obvisious plays not Limited (much), it reads like its "nothing", 1 life, does not matter.
Well, in Limited this land is busted, its so strong it allmost hurts.
The difference to give a land this ability or have it on a simpel artifact is huge.
Happy Orb 0
Artifact
: Gain 1 life.
Even this is pretty strong, gets even more annoying if you start with virtually mulligan to 3 and have 4 right from the start (not that this is crazy good, but it feels totally wrong and produces super unfun games).
Of the 3 options the #2 seems to be the most likely:
Happy Land 1
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
:1mana:, : Gain 1 life.
Still kind of annoying.
I would not print a card as direct as this, especially as 1 life simply "feels" bad, while its potentially super important and strong in Limited (at least against aggressive decks, in a lateGame this can easily produce 10+ life, which is a lot).
Better aim for some costs, were the "cost" is in fact the point of the card, while lifegain 1 is just an effect that is as small as possible.
Artifact matters / Sacrifice me matters
=>
Phyrexia's Core
Land T: Add 1 to your manapool. 1, T, sacrifice an artifact: You gain 1 life.
Dead creatures matters / Sacrifice creatures matters (morbid)
=>
Innistrad's Core
Land T: Add 1 to your manapool. 1, T, sacrifice an creature: You gain 1 life.
Cards in hand matters / Hellbent / madness / flashback / dredge / any other graveyard mechanic
=>
Graveyard's Core
Land T: Add 1 to your manapool. 1, T, discard a card: You gain 1 life.
Landfall stuff / Replay lands / Anti-landwalk
=>
Zendikar's Core
Land T: Add 1 to your manapool. 1, T, return a land you control to its owners hand: You gain 1 life.
...
So what ever it is, give the cost a meaning and the lifegain becomes more attractive and fits the set.
A land only with lifegain looks boring for a fair amount of players, and its easy to undervalue it by a lot.
Its not always going to work. There are some cases where it is 1 artifacts like Mana Cylix <=> Shimmering Grotto. And there are a lot of other cases like Adarkar Wastes where it obviously does not work at all. Some cards inspired by this:
Herbal Garden Land (C) T: Add 1 to your mana pool. ,T, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Regenerate target creature.
Dark Cliff Land (U) T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Sacrifice CARDNAME: The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to you this turn, prevent half that damage, rounded down.
Filed Peak Land (C) T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Sacrifice CARDNAME: Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
Opal Cavern Land (U) T: Add 1 to your mana pool. Metalcraft - T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control three or more artifacts.
Ruined Slag0 Artifact (U) 3, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
Crystal Cylix1 Artifact (C) ,T: Add WUBRG to your mana pool.
Happy Land 1
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
,T: Gain 1 life.
is #1 too weak?
Happy Land 2
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Gain 1 life.
is #2 too strong?
Happy Land 3
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. Gain 1 life.
#3 has to be broken, right?
#1 would still feel slightly viable for some slow decks, but is pretty weak. It can be stronger (#2) without being overpowering.
My opinion, of course.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885
i want someone talk me into #2
If I recall, effects that could go on an artifact for 2 mana could be put onto lands, as a base-line. If you look at tanglebloom, you see paying one mana to gain one life. #2 lets you pay a mana (the mana you could be using from the land) to gain a life. It seems reasonable to me.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885
could #2 be uncommon? i question it at common
#2 has such potential to completely ruin control matchups, not to mention give red fits.
vs control
Player A: "What's the life?"
Player B: "28, 34"
Judge: "Turns!"
Players: "FFFFFFFFUUUU..."
vs aggro
Player A: "Goblin guide?"
Player B: "Land, go to 19?"
Player A: "FFFFFFUUUUUU..."
I mean... Glimmerpost was clearly not well thought out BUT the card was good enough where the idea of playing it in a nonmean way wasn't so incredibly stupid. I get to play magic with 21 or 23 life? Ok.
Land #2 takes that and goes "23? Off of one land? Nah man, think big!". In control I can definitely see people using this on turn 1 and 2, using turn three and four and five for important things, and then having an extra land lying around to tick up your life with for the rest of the match. It's self perpetuating. If it gets you, say, 5 life and your opponent deals you 23, well If they don't draw that bolt fast you'll be out of range in a hurry.
TL;DR
#2 is busted because it's way too easy and invalidates the "philosophy of fire" too hard.
#1 is fair. You get two life or maybe even three in a normal control vs. creatures game of magic. Maybe even four!. It's possibly underpowered, but it is certainly printable.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Lands have to be judged as lands, not against nonland cards
Look at my examples.
How would an aggressive deck beat a control deck that starting on turn one had the ability to gain a life for 1 mana per turn cycle? Seriously ponder that. Will you ever beat them if they stabilize? No, never. Never. You cannot draw enough burn to keep them from getting out of range.
Even worse, imagine getting two in the opener.
That's
1: Land: gain 1 life
2: Land: gain two life
3: Block dual land: Ponder, gain two life
4: Plains: Day of judgment
5: Island: Counterspell/Draw spell/Wall, gain 2 life
6: No land: Anything, gain two life...
...What?
People are seriously defending this series of events?
Seriously?
This card would take a stupid amount of pressure off of the control player. He basically would start at 26 or more with one copy.
Or in a control matchup. One could easily see someone gaining 10 or more life off of one land over the course of a game. One land. It isn't even that hard to imagine once in a best of three there being a player who manages to find three copies in one game. Guess which player can't lose?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
White Temple
Legendary Land
T: Add W to your manapool. If you have less life than an opponent, you gain 1 life.
And this card was crazy good, so strong any controll deck badly wanted it.
More or less what karakas is, a land with pretty much no drawback (other than being legendary, which is negliable).
*Ofcourse similiar stuff was done for each color, with different conditions for a bonus effect, but all quite good (even the Kamigawa legend land cycle is nearly above standard lands, with the only drawback being legendary).
For the card here, a problem is that "1 life" is really a strong ability, while it "looks" not strong.
If you ever played against pristine talisman you quickly see how powerfull the 1 life is.
It can will not gain much right away, but you have a endless stream and its an uphill battle for your opponent.
Against aggressive decks its a blowout if the lifegain starts right away.
It "must" have an additional manacost, otherwise the card is boring to play against, as it pretty much turns into a land that will allways tap for life and just for mana if you badly need it.
The lands that simply give +1 life and thats it, can be a full turn you survive longer, and that alone decides a game.
A single point of life can totally mess with the game.
if you start virtually with 21+ life your opponents "aggro" deck might fail to beat you.
The single point of life feels in this case, like the problem with "mill".
It either matters that you survived on 1 life, or it does not and the effect virtually was meaningless.
Happy Land Most basic form
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield you gain 1 life.
: Add to your mana pool.
Thats more or less what the Glimmerpost is, in a basic bad form.
So we know we can make it stronger (as long as its not a locus, which made Glimmerpost so good in constructed).
Happy Land Repeatable Form
Land
Whenever ~ or another land enters the battlefield you gain 1 life.
: Add to your mana pool.
Stronger, more or less a landfall trigger to gain life, but not just for your lands, all lands.
A lot stronger in Multiplayer, and possible a more "enjoyable" form as its not endless (your opponent can at least decide to not play lands to kill you).
The land would be very strong in Ramp decks, possible a blowout lifegain with Scapeshift, so in this form it allready becomes "rare" quality and is near the edge of "really good".
Happy Land Repeatable Form
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
3, : You gain 1 life.
A way higher cost to start with.
It still works in Limited.
In a lategame it starts to make life each turn, easily a valueable card, if the set has some form of "lifegain matters" the value jumps up, the same as Phyrexian Core profits from the artifact matters and the cards that want to be sacrificed.
In a vacuum, this activation cost is high, the card still does what it wants, but its a land, the effect should not be too annoying.
Happy Land Shard Form
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
3, OR W, : You gain 1 life.
This way its a "shard" like design ala Crystal Shard, which gives the ability to white as a lifegain effect, and for more mana to everyone, which directly hints to an cycle of lands for every color with super small effect that profit for being a color.
Happy Land 2
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
: Gain 1 life.
Here everyone that votes for this obvisious plays not Limited (much), it reads like its "nothing", 1 life, does not matter.
Well, in Limited this land is busted, its so strong it allmost hurts.
The difference to give a land this ability or have it on a simpel artifact is huge.
Happy Orb 0
Artifact
: Gain 1 life.
Even this is pretty strong, gets even more annoying if you start with virtually mulligan to 3 and have 4 right from the start (not that this is crazy good, but it feels totally wrong and produces super unfun games).
Of the 3 options the #2 seems to be the most likely:
Happy Land 1
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
:1mana:, : Gain 1 life.
Still kind of annoying.
I would not print a card as direct as this, especially as 1 life simply "feels" bad, while its potentially super important and strong in Limited (at least against aggressive decks, in a lateGame this can easily produce 10+ life, which is a lot).
Better aim for some costs, were the "cost" is in fact the point of the card, while lifegain 1 is just an effect that is as small as possible.
Artifact matters / Sacrifice me matters
=>
Phyrexia's Core
Land
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
1, T, sacrifice an artifact: You gain 1 life.
Dead creatures matters / Sacrifice creatures matters (morbid)
=>
Innistrad's Core
Land
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
1, T, sacrifice an creature: You gain 1 life.
Cards in hand matters / Hellbent / madness / flashback / dredge / any other graveyard mechanic
=>
Graveyard's Core
Land
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
1, T, discard a card: You gain 1 life.
Landfall stuff / Replay lands / Anti-landwalk
=>
Zendikar's Core
Land
T: Add 1 to your manapool.
1, T, return a land you control to its owners hand: You gain 1 life.
...
So what ever it is, give the cost a meaning and the lifegain becomes more attractive and fits the set.
A land only with lifegain looks boring for a fair amount of players, and its easy to undervalue it by a lot.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Land (U)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
,T: You gain 1 life.
This is better:
Land (U)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
,T: You gain 1 life.
I was looking at Fountain of Youth and other 0 artifacts and I noticed three interesting cards:
Spellbook <=> Reliquary Tower
Lotus Petal <=> Archaeological Dig
Darksteel Relic <=> Darksteel Citadel
Its not always going to work. There are some cases where it is 1 artifacts like Mana Cylix <=> Shimmering Grotto. And there are a lot of other cases like Adarkar Wastes where it obviously does not work at all. Some cards inspired by this:
Land (C)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
,T, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Regenerate target creature.
Dark Cliff
Land (U)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Sacrifice CARDNAME: The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to you this turn, prevent half that damage, rounded down.
Filed Peak
Land (C)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Sacrifice CARDNAME: Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
Opal Cavern
Land (U)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Metalcraft - T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control three or more artifacts.
Ruined Slag 0
Artifact (U)
3, Sacrifice CARDNAME: Return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
Crystal Cylix 1
Artifact (C)
,T: Add WUBRG to your mana pool.
Stalking Idol 0
Artifact (U)
6: CARDNAME becomes a 3/3 Golem artifact creature. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
By the way, I'd argue that mana cylix should have been 0 mana anyway.
Also
Giving it the "less life than an opponent" does nothing to keep the card from molesting aggro if it taps for no additional cost.
I'd wager a guess and say the 1 mana activation with the "less life than an opponent" restriction is probably the best.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article