Characters are all colors... it's hard to write or relate to a completely monored person... they'd be insane. (Mono any color would be insane). Sorin's defining characteristics are black. He doesn't exibit any white traits.
-We already have a Black-Red walker
That's irrelevant. Planeswalker's colors are decided by Creative, they don't have rules.
-We don't have a White-Black walker
We don't have a Red/blue, White/Green, blue/green walkers... they don't have some quota they need to fill.
-Developing another character to fill this spot would waste too much time
? They create new planeswalkers ALL THE TIME. Hell, Garruk's spot was originally going to go to a werewolf planeswalker. Elspeth and Sorin were originally throw away characters. Developing new characters is what Creative does.
If for whatever reason they needed a black/white planeswalker (which they wouldn't since planeswalkers are designed that way) they would just create a new planeswalker.
-White is the only logical course for Sorin to (temporarily) expand to.
Or red... or he stays monoblack. You are creating a false choice. The most logical option is that Sorin will remain the same color he was before since we don't see him changing at all.
There is no proof that he'll be a different color.
-Wizards need to have one planeswalker representing each color for each block (Don't even argue this point. Every single block or core set with walkers has had this rule.). Giving Sorin white would prevent him from being redundant next to our mono-black Lilina.
Yep, Scars of Mirrodin's green planeswalker proved that point. I thought everyone who argued this point realized that PLANESWALKERS AREN"T DESIGNED THAT WAY!
-A WB Sorin would be pretty badass.
Indeed.
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You seem to have some weird notion on how planeswalkers are designed. Planeswalkers are picked out by Creative and given to R&D to design. They are designed top down.
Planeswalkers are very much as "flavor first" card type.
Sorin is a monoblack planeswalker, so his card will be monoblack. R&D isn't going to say "hey, he's white now."
Remember that:
1) Power level changes from set to set. You don't need to give players 5 equal planeswalkers, some colors can be better than others.
2) Creating arbitary rules on what color you can print planeswalkers in would restict them too much.
3) What planeswalkers show up is a function of the story for the most part.
4) Planeswalkers follow the Legnedary model. It's very rare that we'll get perfect cycles of legends, normally we get more legends in one color than in another.
I wouldn't say it has "nothing" to do with the character. It might not always be precise, but the artwork Wizards commissions is meant to inspire feelings into the viewer, after all. Assuming the artist does his job right, the feelings the card inspires should be something we associate with the color of the character. And I am not really getting any "community" or "passion" from the artwork. Sorin is clearly all alone, there is a large empty space behind his back, showing that he is not protecting anything and his face is just as emotionless as the past time.
Of course there are exceptions, and there is even a bigger chance of inaccuracy given that this is just a preview, but it is still the only clue we have now. If there is a story bit in the future saying Sorin has come to Innistrad to protect something he loves or to enact vengeance upon something, I would disregard the artwork and support a BR theory.
I'd love it if all the people who were 'convinced' that Sorin will change colours would a) read this thread and b) realise that no, your 'astounding leap of logic' isn't an original thought, that it has been busted already, and just because you feel oh so special for coming up with the idea that it isn't inherently sacred.
Sorin will not change colours.
What's wrong with having two monoblack planeswalkers in the same set anyway? Just beacuse it has never happened before, doesn't mean it won't happen. DFCs, anyone?
Planeswalkers are not designed in cycles. They aren't designed the same way as regular cards at all.
I'd love it if all the people who were 'convinced' that Sorin will change colours would a) read this thread and b) realise that no, your 'astounding leap of logic' isn't an original thought, that it has been busted already, and just because you feel oh so special for coming up with the idea that it isn't inherently sacred.
Sorin will not change colours.
What's wrong with having two monoblack planeswalkers in the same set anyway? Just beacuse it has never happened before, doesn't mean it won't happen. DFCs, anyone?
Planeswalkers are not designed in cycles. They aren't designed the same way as regular cards at all.
Can we please stop beating a(n un)dead horse?
He "might" branch out into either of blacks allied colours, or he might stay mono, but I'll agree that it seems unlikely he'll hop over into white or green. As for http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341425, the only thing that picture proves is that Sorin's on Innistrad, and that he's used his sword on someone/something.
I'd love it if all the people who were 'convinced' that Sorin will change colours would a) read this thread and b) realise that no, your 'astounding leap of logic' isn't an original thought, that it has been busted already, and just because you feel oh so special for coming up with the idea that it isn't inherently sacred.
Sorin will not change colours.
What's wrong with having two monoblack planeswalkers in the same set anyway? Just beacuse it has never happened before, doesn't mean it won't happen. DFCs, anyone?
Planeswalkers are not designed in cycles. They aren't designed the same way as regular cards at all.
Can we please stop beating a(n un)dead horse?
Yeesh, this isn't the rumour mill, what's wrong with speculating on what Sorin 2.0 might/could/should look like? Aren't you at least a little uncomfortable with putting your nuts on the table before the card's even printed?
re: everyone who thinks of Sorin in white terms, I'm with you guys. I think a w/b Sorin would actually be pretty characterful, as I tend to think of him as pretty duty- and honour-bound, with a sense of justice or order that can override the cheesy Anne Rice description of him as a pleasure seeking 'bon vivant.' I don't think adding w is necessary for attesting to this card-wise, but it would be pretty cool nonetheless. In any case, Sorin's remaining monoblack wouldn't fundamentally change the way I perceive him, which is basically as a heroic character (I have a hard time thinking of any of the existing mtg planeswalkers, aside from Bolas, as really villainous in their actions, motivations, and intentions).
Yeesh, this isn't the rumour mill, what's wrong with speculating on what Sorin 2.0 might/could/should look like? Aren't you at least a little uncomfortable with putting your nuts on the table before the card's even printed?
What's wrong with speculating? This isn't the speculation forum. That's what.
Yeesh, this isn't the rumour mill, what's wrong with speculating on what Sorin 2.0 might/could/should look like? Aren't you at least a little uncomfortable with putting your nuts on the table before the card's even printed?
There's a difference between speculating and guessing. Good speculation has a grounding in character and an understanding of how Creative and R&D works. Guessing is when you go "wouldn't it be cool if..." without anything to back it up.
"Wouldn't it be cool if Sorin is black and white" isn't speculation. It's guessing. And there's nothing to talk about because one guess is as good as another.
There's a difference between speculating and guessing. Good speculation has a grounding in character and an understanding of how Creative and R&D works. Guessing is when you go "wouldn't it be cool if..." without anything to back it up.
"Wouldn't it be cool if Sorin is black and white" isn't speculation. It's guessing. And there's nothing to talk about because one guess is as good as another.
The thread is about identifying Sorin based on colour, and while a lot of votes for a b/w Sorin card have left the rationale behind this unspoken, I don't think they're baseless or ridiculous claims.
Setting aside the fact that I'd love to see a b/w Sorin card, I think the character himself actually encompasses a lot of typical white characteristics. This is something to discuss, no? At the end of the day, yeah, who cares what colour we think the next Sorin card will be, especially since we're probably not on the creative team? Fair enough. But it's not that surprising that gameplay and storyline will get a little intermingled when it comes to all things MTG. In that sense, I think everyone who's put their 2cents forward with respect to 'what colour is Sorin?' is in the right place, even if some vague, cryptic remarks from mtg authorities have some convinced that Sorin the card will remain black. What Sorin 2.0 will actually look like is just a question that tends to go hand in hand with how we as fans of the flavor tend to identify the character.
The thread is about identifying Sorin based on colour, and while a lot of votes for a b/w Sorin card have left the rationale behind this unspoken, I don't think they're baseless or ridiculous claims.
There is nothing that would suggest Sorin being anything but monoblack. Thus, any speculation on him being anything but monoblack is baseless.
You could argue that Elsepth will be white/blue next time we see her, but that would also be baseless.
I think the character himself actually encompasses a lot of typical white characteristics. This is something to discuss, no?
Which are....? He has a sense of justice and keeps his word... these are not exclusively white. Sorin is also a vampire and cares little for others. He's not white.
Toshi exhibited chararistics that weren't black, but he's still a black character.
Color discussions tend not to work out because everyone had different takes on each color.
But it's not that surprising that gameplay and storyline will get a little intermingled when it comes to all things MTG.
When dealing with planeswalkers gameplay and storyline are the same. Creative picks the color of planeswalkers and decides who will show up.
There is no distinction between card and character. Ajani was red/white in Alara because his character is red and white. Sorin was monoblack in Zendikar because his character is monoblack.
In that sense, I think everyone who's put their 2cents forward with respect to 'what colour is Sorin?' is in the right place, even if some vague, cryptic remarks from mtg authorities have some convinced that Sorin the card will remain black.
Here's a secret. The color pie is terrible at absolutes. Almost anything can go into two or more colors. Empathy, tyranny, greed, love... nothing belongs exclusively to one color.
So, yes, i could argue that Sorin is monoblue, or blue/red, or black/green.
But creative has said, Sorin is monoblack. So all his actions and personality traits should be examined from that stand point.
Remember that Creative has already made it's stake when it printed Sorin's card. If they wanted him black/white, he'd be black and white.
Sorin will be mono black. Maybe he'll be THIS good
Sorin, Badass BB4
+1: Sorin Markov deals to target creature equal to the number of loyalty counters on him.
-X Draw X cards and lose X life.
-8: Target opponent loses 13 life and you gain 13 life.
Starting Loyalty:5
Awesome. Balanced. The creature clause makes it good, draw is great and all three abilities fit his sangromancer style. That, and 13 is a pet thing in Innistrad.
I hope hes not broken, cuz I want 4.
He will DEFINITELY be Mono Black. I bet my girlfriend on it.
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EDH RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER UKEFNET THE MINDFULU GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG MODERN RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
The reason I object to continued discussion of Sorin is because there is no proof at all for it. If we get some proof, any proof at all, we can reopen this possibility. Until then, any continued discussion is baseless speculation.
Until new evidence arises, this thread is pointless.
I don't think anyone has pointed it out yet but if we take a look at the Card Vampiric Fury I think we can see a glimpse of Sorin having a feeding frenzy or am I mistaken?
So while I wouldn't rule it out entirely that we might see a little more "Emotion" driven Side from him as an BR Walker I must agree that I also think he will be Mono Black.
Mainly because he managed to become a self controlling Vampire who is not only driven by Hunger as far as I catched his Charakter.
But as long as he got a nice Art and great Abilitys I don't care that much
ATTACHMENTS
Vampiresb
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.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
What people seem to be forgetting is three crucial facts:
1. Sorin has several white characteristics. It's not hlaf of him, but at least 35-45%
2. We've already had a black-red walker two blocks ago. It'll be awhile before we have another one.
3. Sorin is definitively not red, blue, or green.
Rivin
1) Like? I don't see how people attribute "sense of justice" to him. Based on both the novel and the short describitions of him, he doesn't strike me as a person into right and wrong. Saying that he's white because he"keeps his promises" or "has a sense of duty" based on one incident, the eldrazi, isn't very good proof of character.
I could just as easily say he locked the eldrazi away and showed up a second time to do the same is because he wanted to save the multiverse for himself, not because of a concern for others. The fact that he cooperated with two others is irrevelant; getting, asking, recieving or seeking help to solve a problem does not make a being "just" or "honorable"; it just means Sorin has the balls to know when to ask others for help. Black would accept that position if it meant survival or winning.
2) So? 'Walkers don't come in strict cycles. Wotc will print them in whatever color they think the 'walker should be in.
3) Agree on green and blue. I could find a few arguments for him being red though. He's hedonistic sometimes and pleasure seeking is an aspect of red as well as black (see rakdos). He comes from a plane where vampires are red as well as black. See how I just came up with a few reasons why he could be red? Its this easy to make something up
@ Chandras Apprentice: Good eye. I didn't even notice there were four vampires, let alone one with a hair color and style similar to Sorin's. Still, without the face its hard to tell...
Sorin has no white traits whatsover; whoever claims that clearly has no read his debut novel. He is heroic, but out of selfishness, and he is clearly amoral. To say that he has a sense of justice is just plain delusion and misinterpretation of his character.
Sorin has no white traits whatsover; whoever claims that clearly has no read his debut novel. He is heroic, but out of selfishness, and he is clearly amoral. To say that he has a sense of justice is just plain delusion and misinterpretation of his character.
Yet he isn't red. He isn't hasty. His plans take time. He's willing to wait. None of these are red traits.
And we haven't yet seen a WB walker. WOTC has shown us multiple times that they want to represent each color for each block.
Lorwyn-Shadowmoor: Ajani White, Jace Blue, Lili Black, Chandra Red, Garruk Green (Admittingly they only showed up in Lorwyn as a test, but the idea still stands)
Zendikar: Gideon White, Jace Blue, Sorin Black, Chandra Red, Nissa Green (Sarkhan was extra)
Scars: Elspeth White, Venser Blue, Tezz Black, Koth Red, Karn Green (Only slot left, and green ramps)
M10, M11, and M12 had this too.
That's SEVEN CONSECUTIVE blocks/core sets where each color is represented by a walker. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignorant of WOTC's basic business plan (which we've seen the pattern of) Also notice how any two color pair has never been repeated EVER, and you realize how idiotic a BR Sorin is.
Then again, Sorin may end up being the "extra" walker like Sarkhan the Mad, and not count for color representation, with a White Planeswalker either returning or a new character. In that case any case for Sorin's colors is pointless.
Rivin
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Getting a prostate exam from a leper who walks away with 9 fingers is better than the Twilight Novels
I seriously doubt Sorin is anything other than mono-Black, but he has more going for Black/Red than White/Black. He is an hedonist, after all, and takes the world rather at face value, instead of long term ambitions (then again, someone immortal like him has probably no long term goals anyway).
Creative has no need to fullfill every color combination; we have already THREE White walkers, why not two Black walkers? Besides, Ajani is no longer Red/White, leaving only Bolas, Sarkhan, Tezzeret, Garruk and the up-coming Kiora as multi-coloured walkers.
If anything, Sorin would become Black/Red because, aside from Garruk and Kiora, the only multicoloured walkers are ally colour based, not enemy colour based.
The first planeswalkers don't count. They were printed to show off a new idea and create a planeswalker defining each colour. These planeswalkers were printed with from "bottom up", so aren't representative of the whole.
In Alara's case, each shard got a planeswalker. The shards were related to the colour pie, so it makes sense to get one planeswalker representing each colour if you have one representing each shard.
EDIT: And I just noticed you mixed up Ajani and Sarkhan! Ajani is actually the representative of green (Naya) in this set, despite the fact that he isn't green himself. Further proof that colour is based on the walker's personality rather than the needs of the setting.
Zendikar: Gideon White, Jace Blue, Sorin Black, Chandra Red, Nissa Green (Sarkhan was extra)
And Sarkhan is extra... why? Your logic is starting to fail a bit. It makes sense to have mostly monocoloured 'walkers from a design standpoint since multicolour was overdone thanks to Alara. Otherwise, all the returning characters have colours that make lots of sense and everyone had a reason to be there (even if Jace's reason was stupid).
Scars: Elspeth White, Venser Blue, Tezz Black, Koth Red, Karn Green (Only slot left, and green ramps)
Bahaha! Karn represents green because he makes people discard, right? No, that can't be it. Because he deals with time? No, that's blue... You're really stretching here. Green didn't get a walker in Scars because that's not how it's done. Again in Mirrodin 2.0, every returning walker (all of them but Koth) had colours that very much matched their personalities.
That's SEVEN CONSECUTIVE blocks/core sets where each color is represented by a walker. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignorant of WOTC's basic business plan (which we've seen the pattern of) Also notice how any two color pair has never been repeated EVER, and you realize how idiotic a BR Sorin is.
Notice that only 27 planeswalker cards have been printed to date. Saying that each "two color pair has never been repeated" is certainly true, but jumping to the conclusion that they never will be repeated is ridiculous.
Also, core sets don't count. They will always have one of each colour and probably never multicoloured because core sets are always made bottom up.
Then again, Sorin may end up being the "extra" walker like Sarkhan the Mad, and not count for color representation, with a White Planeswalker either returning or a new character. In that case any case for Sorin's colors is pointless.
Rivin
The fact is that any time we've ever had a walker reprinted, looking at their personality was 100% spot on for determining what colours they would be. Sorin is a very black guy. You could argue he has some white/red characteristics, but he's just black through and through.
Yet he isn't red. He isn't hasty. His plans take time. He's willing to wait. None of these are red traits.
And we haven't yet seen a WB walker. WOTC has shown us multiple times that they want to represent each color for each block.
Lorwyn-Shadowmoor: Ajani White, Jace Blue, Lili Black, Chandra Red, Garruk Green (Admittingly they only showed up in Lorwyn as a test, but the idea still stands)
Zendikar: Gideon White, Jace Blue, Sorin Black, Chandra Red, Nissa Green (Sarkhan was extra)
Scars: Elspeth White, Venser Blue, Tezz Black, Koth Red, Karn Green (Only slot left, and green ramps)
M10, M11, and M12 had this too.
That's SEVEN CONSECUTIVE blocks/core sets where each color is represented by a walker. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignorant of WOTC's basic business plan (which we've seen the pattern of) Also notice how any two color pair has never been repeated EVER, and you realize how idiotic a BR Sorin is.
Then again, Sorin may end up being the "extra" walker like Sarkhan the Mad, and not count for color representation, with a White Planeswalker either returning or a new character. In that case any case for Sorin's colors is pointless.
Rivin
1) Just because someone's red doesn't mean they can't plan ahead. Case in point: Izolda, from Dissension, who's plans include mindcontrolling Rakdos and taking over the world. She's red, but that's her motivations, whereas black provides the planning in this case.
2) Karn is green?! What are you smoking? http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Karn+Liberated does not remind me of any green card I've seen in my life. I might have missed something, but direct removal/taking controll of your opponents assets seems more like blue/black rather than green.
I know WotC has said that they don't care about balancing the planeswalkers' colours, but I can't imagine Sorin being another PW that becomes UB in his second version. I have a feeling the next Jace will become UB, considering that the 0 ability of his current form is Glimpse the Unthinkable; perhaps its a result of his relationship with Liliana (?).
I don't know any better than the next guy, but I would expect the next Sorin to either be mono-black again, or maybe BR to go with his tribe.
It's pretty obvious Sorin won't be black/blue. His homeworld is Innistrad, where the vampire tribe is black/red. So if he's going to go dual color, that's what he'll be.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
He hasn't acted very white either.
Characters are all colors... it's hard to write or relate to a completely monored person... they'd be insane. (Mono any color would be insane). Sorin's defining characteristics are black. He doesn't exibit any white traits.
That's irrelevant. Planeswalker's colors are decided by Creative, they don't have rules.
We don't have a Red/blue, White/Green, blue/green walkers... they don't have some quota they need to fill.
? They create new planeswalkers ALL THE TIME. Hell, Garruk's spot was originally going to go to a werewolf planeswalker. Elspeth and Sorin were originally throw away characters. Developing new characters is what Creative does.
If for whatever reason they needed a black/white planeswalker (which they wouldn't since planeswalkers are designed that way) they would just create a new planeswalker.
Or red... or he stays monoblack. You are creating a false choice. The most logical option is that Sorin will remain the same color he was before since we don't see him changing at all.
There is no proof that he'll be a different color.
Yep, Scars of Mirrodin's green planeswalker proved that point. I thought everyone who argued this point realized that PLANESWALKERS AREN"T DESIGNED THAT WAY!
Indeed.
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You seem to have some weird notion on how planeswalkers are designed. Planeswalkers are picked out by Creative and given to R&D to design. They are designed top down.
Planeswalkers are very much as "flavor first" card type.
Sorin is a monoblack planeswalker, so his card will be monoblack. R&D isn't going to say "hey, he's white now."
Remember that:
1) Power level changes from set to set. You don't need to give players 5 equal planeswalkers, some colors can be better than others.
2) Creating arbitary rules on what color you can print planeswalkers in would restict them too much.
3) What planeswalkers show up is a function of the story for the most part.
4) Planeswalkers follow the Legnedary model. It's very rare that we'll get perfect cycles of legends, normally we get more legends in one color than in another.
You can't use a picture to determine color. The picture of a character has nothing to do with thier color.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341425
Of course there are exceptions, and there is even a bigger chance of inaccuracy given that this is just a preview, but it is still the only clue we have now. If there is a story bit in the future saying Sorin has come to Innistrad to protect something he loves or to enact vengeance upon something, I would disregard the artwork and support a BR theory.
Yeah, really, remember all those people saying WG Elspeth?
Sorin will not change colours.
What's wrong with having two monoblack planeswalkers in the same set anyway? Just beacuse it has never happened before, doesn't mean it won't happen. DFCs, anyone?
Planeswalkers are not designed in cycles. They aren't designed the same way as regular cards at all.
Can we please stop beating a(n un)dead horse?
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He "might" branch out into either of blacks allied colours, or he might stay mono, but I'll agree that it seems unlikely he'll hop over into white or green. As for http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341425, the only thing that picture proves is that Sorin's on Innistrad, and that he's used his sword on someone/something.
Yeesh, this isn't the rumour mill, what's wrong with speculating on what Sorin 2.0 might/could/should look like? Aren't you at least a little uncomfortable with putting your nuts on the table before the card's even printed?
re: everyone who thinks of Sorin in white terms, I'm with you guys. I think a w/b Sorin would actually be pretty characterful, as I tend to think of him as pretty duty- and honour-bound, with a sense of justice or order that can override the cheesy Anne Rice description of him as a pleasure seeking 'bon vivant.' I don't think adding w is necessary for attesting to this card-wise, but it would be pretty cool nonetheless. In any case, Sorin's remaining monoblack wouldn't fundamentally change the way I perceive him, which is basically as a heroic character (I have a hard time thinking of any of the existing mtg planeswalkers, aside from Bolas, as really villainous in their actions, motivations, and intentions).
What's wrong with speculating? This isn't the speculation forum. That's what.
There's a difference between speculating and guessing. Good speculation has a grounding in character and an understanding of how Creative and R&D works. Guessing is when you go "wouldn't it be cool if..." without anything to back it up.
"Wouldn't it be cool if Sorin is black and white" isn't speculation. It's guessing. And there's nothing to talk about because one guess is as good as another.
The thread is about identifying Sorin based on colour, and while a lot of votes for a b/w Sorin card have left the rationale behind this unspoken, I don't think they're baseless or ridiculous claims.
Setting aside the fact that I'd love to see a b/w Sorin card, I think the character himself actually encompasses a lot of typical white characteristics. This is something to discuss, no? At the end of the day, yeah, who cares what colour we think the next Sorin card will be, especially since we're probably not on the creative team? Fair enough. But it's not that surprising that gameplay and storyline will get a little intermingled when it comes to all things MTG. In that sense, I think everyone who's put their 2cents forward with respect to 'what colour is Sorin?' is in the right place, even if some vague, cryptic remarks from mtg authorities have some convinced that Sorin the card will remain black. What Sorin 2.0 will actually look like is just a question that tends to go hand in hand with how we as fans of the flavor tend to identify the character.
There is nothing that would suggest Sorin being anything but monoblack. Thus, any speculation on him being anything but monoblack is baseless.
You could argue that Elsepth will be white/blue next time we see her, but that would also be baseless.
Which are....? He has a sense of justice and keeps his word... these are not exclusively white. Sorin is also a vampire and cares little for others. He's not white.
Toshi exhibited chararistics that weren't black, but he's still a black character.
Color discussions tend not to work out because everyone had different takes on each color.
When dealing with planeswalkers gameplay and storyline are the same. Creative picks the color of planeswalkers and decides who will show up.
There is no distinction between card and character. Ajani was red/white in Alara because his character is red and white. Sorin was monoblack in Zendikar because his character is monoblack.
Here's a secret. The color pie is terrible at absolutes. Almost anything can go into two or more colors. Empathy, tyranny, greed, love... nothing belongs exclusively to one color.
So, yes, i could argue that Sorin is monoblue, or blue/red, or black/green.
But creative has said, Sorin is monoblack. So all his actions and personality traits should be examined from that stand point.
Remember that Creative has already made it's stake when it printed Sorin's card. If they wanted him black/white, he'd be black and white.
Sorin, Badass BB4
+1: Sorin Markov deals to target creature equal to the number of loyalty counters on him.
-X Draw X cards and lose X life.
-8: Target opponent loses 13 life and you gain 13 life.
Starting Loyalty:5
Awesome. Balanced. The creature clause makes it good, draw is great and all three abilities fit his sangromancer style. That, and 13 is a pet thing in Innistrad.
I hope hes not broken, cuz I want 4.
He will DEFINITELY be Mono Black. I bet my girlfriend on it.
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
Until new evidence arises, this thread is pointless.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
So while I wouldn't rule it out entirely that we might see a little more "Emotion" driven Side from him as an BR Walker I must agree that I also think he will be Mono Black.
Mainly because he managed to become a self controlling Vampire who is not only driven by Hunger as far as I catched his Charakter.
But as long as he got a nice Art and great Abilitys I don't care that much
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
1. Sorin has several white characteristics. It's not hlaf of him, but at least 35-45%
2. We've already had a black-red walker two blocks ago. It'll be awhile before we have another one.
3. Sorin is definitively not red, blue, or green.
Rivin
1) Like? I don't see how people attribute "sense of justice" to him. Based on both the novel and the short describitions of him, he doesn't strike me as a person into right and wrong. Saying that he's white because he"keeps his promises" or "has a sense of duty" based on one incident, the eldrazi, isn't very good proof of character.
I could just as easily say he locked the eldrazi away and showed up a second time to do the same is because he wanted to save the multiverse for himself, not because of a concern for others. The fact that he cooperated with two others is irrevelant; getting, asking, recieving or seeking help to solve a problem does not make a being "just" or "honorable"; it just means Sorin has the balls to know when to ask others for help. Black would accept that position if it meant survival or winning.
2) So? 'Walkers don't come in strict cycles. Wotc will print them in whatever color they think the 'walker should be in.
3) Agree on green and blue. I could find a few arguments for him being red though. He's hedonistic sometimes and pleasure seeking is an aspect of red as well as black (see rakdos). He comes from a plane where vampires are red as well as black. See how I just came up with a few reasons why he could be red? Its this easy to make something up
@ Chandras Apprentice: Good eye. I didn't even notice there were four vampires, let alone one with a hair color and style similar to Sorin's. Still, without the face its hard to tell...
Yet he isn't red. He isn't hasty. His plans take time. He's willing to wait. None of these are red traits.
And we haven't yet seen a WB walker. WOTC has shown us multiple times that they want to represent each color for each block.
Lorwyn-Shadowmoor: Ajani White, Jace Blue, Lili Black, Chandra Red, Garruk Green (Admittingly they only showed up in Lorwyn as a test, but the idea still stands)
Alara: Elspeth White, Tezz Blue, Bolas Black, Ajani Red, Sarkhan Green
Zendikar: Gideon White, Jace Blue, Sorin Black, Chandra Red, Nissa Green (Sarkhan was extra)
Scars: Elspeth White, Venser Blue, Tezz Black, Koth Red, Karn Green (Only slot left, and green ramps)
M10, M11, and M12 had this too.
That's SEVEN CONSECUTIVE blocks/core sets where each color is represented by a walker. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignorant of WOTC's basic business plan (which we've seen the pattern of) Also notice how any two color pair has never been repeated EVER, and you realize how idiotic a BR Sorin is.
Then again, Sorin may end up being the "extra" walker like Sarkhan the Mad, and not count for color representation, with a White Planeswalker either returning or a new character. In that case any case for Sorin's colors is pointless.
Rivin
Creative has no need to fullfill every color combination; we have already THREE White walkers, why not two Black walkers? Besides, Ajani is no longer Red/White, leaving only Bolas, Sarkhan, Tezzeret, Garruk and the up-coming Kiora as multi-coloured walkers.
If anything, Sorin would become Black/Red because, aside from Garruk and Kiora, the only multicoloured walkers are ally colour based, not enemy colour based.
The first planeswalkers don't count. They were printed to show off a new idea and create a planeswalker defining each colour. These planeswalkers were printed with from "bottom up", so aren't representative of the whole.
In Alara's case, each shard got a planeswalker. The shards were related to the colour pie, so it makes sense to get one planeswalker representing each colour if you have one representing each shard.
EDIT: And I just noticed you mixed up Ajani and Sarkhan! Ajani is actually the representative of green (Naya) in this set, despite the fact that he isn't green himself. Further proof that colour is based on the walker's personality rather than the needs of the setting.
And Sarkhan is extra... why? Your logic is starting to fail a bit. It makes sense to have mostly monocoloured 'walkers from a design standpoint since multicolour was overdone thanks to Alara. Otherwise, all the returning characters have colours that make lots of sense and everyone had a reason to be there (even if Jace's reason was stupid).
Bahaha! Karn represents green because he makes people discard, right? No, that can't be it. Because he deals with time? No, that's blue... You're really stretching here. Green didn't get a walker in Scars because that's not how it's done. Again in Mirrodin 2.0, every returning walker (all of them but Koth) had colours that very much matched their personalities.
Notice that only 27 planeswalker cards have been printed to date. Saying that each "two color pair has never been repeated" is certainly true, but jumping to the conclusion that they never will be repeated is ridiculous.
Also, core sets don't count. They will always have one of each colour and probably never multicoloured because core sets are always made bottom up.
The fact is that any time we've ever had a walker reprinted, looking at their personality was 100% spot on for determining what colours they would be. Sorin is a very black guy. You could argue he has some white/red characteristics, but he's just black through and through.
1) Just because someone's red doesn't mean they can't plan ahead. Case in point: Izolda, from Dissension, who's plans include mindcontrolling Rakdos and taking over the world. She's red, but that's her motivations, whereas black provides the planning in this case.
2) Karn is green?! What are you smoking? http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Karn+Liberated does not remind me of any green card I've seen in my life. I might have missed something, but direct removal/taking controll of your opponents assets seems more like blue/black rather than green.
I don't know any better than the next guy, but I would expect the next Sorin to either be mono-black again, or maybe BR to go with his tribe.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
We really have no evidence either way. Can we just agree to disagree and wait and see?
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam