Voice is actually pretty damn mythic, compared to some...shaky choices they have recently made.
Is it a chase card? Kind of- it's effect is certainly powerful, but it's also reasonably narrow. Your opponent could easily be playing a deck which simply fails to care about the card, and the deck it is supposed to be spanking plays main deck answers to it.
In fact, most decks play a fine answer to it maindeck, or simply don't even interact with it.
However, in limited, this is not true- in limited, this card is just nasty- punishing the opponent for trying to interact out of turn is one thing, but demanding early removal is another. Oh, and it will probably take your turn, because if you use removal on their turn, they will get 2 dudes. obviously he isn't terribly impressive with no other creatures, but it really only takes 1 other creature in play to make a growing fatty- something which isn't hard to abuse in the colors of populate and 2 for 1 token generation. At bear stats, he is playable even in a deck that he isn't optimal for.
On top of this, the flavor of this card is exceptionally rare- this isn't some run of the mill nature spirit, it is the soul of the ravnican natural resurgence. It might have profited from being legendary, but then you would have anti-play in people playing second copies to get 2 fat tokens, and this set has 10 legends already. It's an elusive stag animus, not something you see everyday (or everydraft!).
Now, as for mythics being overvalued: well, it's easy to say they print constructed staples at mythic in hindsight (once they have proven themselves), but what about all the mythics who spend months at a time being undervalued before shooting up? What about the rares that do this? You could have picked up all your sphinx's revs at 2-4 dollars for months after RTR, provided you didnt blow your money on jaces and vraskas. You could have had your entire mana base for about 60$ if you bought duals before they came back. You could have had olivia voldarens and falkenwrath aristocrats for 1/6th the price. Obviously some mythics start hyped and mostly stay there (obzedat), but saying they just print staples at mythic...implies that pricing is stable and what is a staple is stable.
Now, let's look at gatecrash- which mythics in this set, exactly, see more play than it's uncommons? None, as it happens. Obzedat and Aurelia are literally the only nonland GTC cards in the latest SCG top 8- and possibly the top 16.
The top Deck in the tournament, re-animator? You need 5 mythics, and they each cost as much or less than your shock lands. Oh, but that fair rare resto angel will be 18-20, thanks.
Is Geist of Saint Traft pricey? Yes, it's a multi-format all-star, and it started out its life undervalued and easily obtainable. Geist used to be a ''shrug'' mythic, where you didn't lose your value on the pack opening it. Liliana had a low point that made her nearly tradeable for a ravnica dual. Huntmaster of the Wild fells was the same damn way.
I think that lately, Wizards has been doing a very good job of dispersing value in sets compared to Zendikar/Scars era where EVERYTHING was mythics.
If you have problems with the pricing of mythics on the secondary market, I would argue that your real problem is that you aren't going out of your way to avoid paying a premium for the confirmation of popularity. Magic in general is very bubbley, very volatile, and economically dizzy. You can take advantage of this, or fall prey to it.
If only one or two mythics per set are tournament level and you need four of them, doesn't that make it even harder to acquire them? Like 1 in 8, and then 2 in 15?
Depends on what your measuring stick is. Harder than the sets that immediately preceded the mythic rarity? Yes. Harder than ever? Not really. The one thing that has been constant since 1993 is that, with the sole exception of Fifth Edition, no card has even been rarer than 1 in 121 packs.
For example, Dragon's Maze, with mythics at 1 in 80, is comparable to a rare in Mirrodin, a set that had 88 rares if I recall correctly. Yeah, it's worse than Darksteel or Fifth Dawn that had 55, but remember that the 35 rares in Dragon's Maze are easier to get than those 55 would have been, so it balances out.
Depends on what your measuring stick is. Harder than the sets that immediately preceded the mythic rarity? Yes. Harder than ever? Not really. The one thing that has been constant since 1993 is that, with the sole exception of Fifth Edition, no card has even been rarer than 1 in 121 packs.
The only time cards have been printed at one in 121 per packs they where reprints.
The other thing that has been constant is about 200 rares per block == 800 packs per playset.
Now it is atleat 35 mythics perblock or 1200 packs per playset. Mythics 50% more rares than rares where.
For example, Dragon's Maze, with mythics at 1 in 80, is comparable to a rare in Mirrodin, a set that had 88 rares if I recall correctly. Yeah, it's worse than Darksteel or Fifth Dawn that had 55, but remember that the 35 rares in Dragon's Maze are easier to get than those 55 would have been, so it balances out.
Mirridion was a large set dragon maze is a small set, if you want to do a fair comparison you should compare
RTR to mirridion Mythics: 37.5% rarer , rares 32% less rare
Gate crash to dark steel: mythics 120% rarer, rares 10% rarer.
Dragon maze to 5th dawn: mythics 45% rare, rares 28% less rare.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I don't really expect the best cards to be mythic. Thragtusk is not a mythic. Restoration Angel is not a mythic. Unburial Rights is not a mythic. The best cards are no always mythic.
From the beginning, mythics have had 3 purposes.
1. Making Timmys go "Ooooh".
2. Making Spikes and singles sellers buy more packs.
3. Giving MTGS one more thing to complain about.
If you ever thought that there was one reason more or less I think that you are mistaken.
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The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
The only time cards have been printed at one in 121 per packs they where reprints.
Legends and Ice Age disagree with you. (Admittedly, I thought there were more, but just looked it up and they were at 1:110 instead of 1:121.)
Mirridion was a large set dragon maze is a small set, if you want to do a fair comparison you should compare
RTR to mirridion Mythics: 37.5% rarer , rares 32% less rare
Gate crash to dark steel: mythics 120% rarer, rares 10% rarer.
Dragon maze to 5th dawn: mythics 45% rare, rares 28% less rare.
Gatecrash to Darksteel isn't fair either - Gatecrash is a large set and Darksteel is a small set.
If you can buy 3 playsets of 3 different mythics/rares for 4 dollars, and evaluate correctly that, based on how standard/modern/legacy progresses, at least one of those sets should see wide play, you completely mitigate the 32$ of potential waste if your other mythics rise as high as 12. You then even have the additional cards as potential trade fodder/ long term risers.
The nature of magic cards is that certain cards will always take the load of value, and fortunately this value tends to be factors higher than less played cards. Value fluctuates due too many factors, many of which the majority (who set the price) will fail to realize. This advantages someone who speculates readily and intelligently.
Yes, you could effectively ''lose'' 54$ dollars on those speculated cards, but chances are if they are even remotely reasonable cards they won't drop that much beyond 3-4 dollars, and will naturally recoup their costs with time. If you picked up karns and got sad that he dropped to next nothing, you are now rejoicing that karn is a 30$ powerhouse that nobody has enough of. Karn was always likely to retain some value due to his iconic, unique, and powerful nature, but he always had potential to inflate once the supply of him available dropped. If you bought him during hype, sure, you lose- but if you got your karns when he was nothing, well, you are sitting pretty. Patience is really very important in a collectible card game like this- liquidizing your cards when they rotate out of standard can backfire hilariously.
WOTC is at a damned if you do, damned if you don't position anyway.
They print this kind of mythic? "OMG WIZARDS IS BREAKING ITS PROMISE THIS SET IS RUINED FOREVER!!!!"
They print a card like, say, Deathpact Angel? "OMG WIZARD DROPPED THE BALL DOLLAR BIN MYTHIC ID BE SO MAD TO PULL THIS SET IS RUINED FOREVER!!!!"
Can't please them all.
Yes they can, just get rid of the mythic rarity altogether
Alternatively I would be quite happy if they made all the mythics all the crap rares in the set OR all the good rares in the set, it would make prices go down, if ALL the mythics were playable the price spread would be more even, This is about consistancy.
Another thing is that the absence of a negation is not the same as the negation of the absence. To explain, they said that mythics wouldn't just be a list of the best tournament cards. What they did not say is that mythics wouldn't include powerful cards designed for tournament players. Mythics can and will include powerful tournament staples. All WotC has promised is that there will be cards that aren't tournament staples at Mythic.
In other words, WotC has promised only that there will be more junk mythics in the future, from a tournament player's standpoint.
Didn't they also say that they wouldn't print utility cards at mythic?
Gatecrash to Darksteel isn't fair either - Gatecrash is a large set and Darksteel is a small set.
They are both the second sets, What other set would you compare it against from miridion block? Mirridion is already taken by RTR.
The fact that RTR has two large sets while none mythic blocks only had one doesn't make those mythics any less rare.
Didn't they also say that they wouldn't print utility cards at mythic?
They actully said there where many card types they didn't want to print at mythic, the only one they specified though was utility, which they never actually bothered to define.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Maybe when they were first introduced they were special, but now some of them are junk rares that there are just less of in existence...sigh I'm looking at you Mirror-Mad Phantasm.
Mirror-mad phantasm is the perfect example of what a mythic rare should be. Tournament unplayable, but a cool effect for casual.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
I'm going to argue that this card isn't "mythic" at all according to what Maro said
It's a GW 2/2, which is plain boring. It's effect to make tokens on dying or if an opponent plays something on your turn is not epic or unique, it sounds like its upsetting the fundamental ways to play the game and is just the spike "haha im so smart look at my card advantage efficient creature"
In the article it's described as utility to fight against the ultra popular UWX decks. Why should a utility bear be a mythic? Enter The Infinite feels mythicy, Omniscience feels mythicy (and sees play), Entreat the Angels, etc. But a bear specifically designed to give the most popular decks a hard time at mythic is stupid. They could just reprint Grand Abolisher in a core set instead.
Just to make it perfectly clear to everybody, this card is probably mythic for LIMITED purposes. That is, this is going to be a horribly obnoxious card to play against in limited, and they wanted to make it show up less.
Just to make it perfectly clear to everybody, this card is probably mythic for LIMITED purposes. That is, this is going to be a horribly obnoxious card to play against in limited, and they wanted to make it show up less.
I'll take heart in that fact when someone crushes me with this in day 1 of a GP.
Just to make it perfectly clear to everybody, this card is probably mythic for LIMITED purposes. That is, this is going to be a horribly obnoxious card to play against in limited, and they wanted to make it show up less.
You know what card is more annoying in limited, goblin test pilot.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
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Is it a chase card? Kind of- it's effect is certainly powerful, but it's also reasonably narrow. Your opponent could easily be playing a deck which simply fails to care about the card, and the deck it is supposed to be spanking plays main deck answers to it.
In fact, most decks play a fine answer to it maindeck, or simply don't even interact with it.
However, in limited, this is not true- in limited, this card is just nasty- punishing the opponent for trying to interact out of turn is one thing, but demanding early removal is another. Oh, and it will probably take your turn, because if you use removal on their turn, they will get 2 dudes. obviously he isn't terribly impressive with no other creatures, but it really only takes 1 other creature in play to make a growing fatty- something which isn't hard to abuse in the colors of populate and 2 for 1 token generation. At bear stats, he is playable even in a deck that he isn't optimal for.
On top of this, the flavor of this card is exceptionally rare- this isn't some run of the mill nature spirit, it is the soul of the ravnican natural resurgence. It might have profited from being legendary, but then you would have anti-play in people playing second copies to get 2 fat tokens, and this set has 10 legends already. It's an elusive stag animus, not something you see everyday (or everydraft!).
Now, as for mythics being overvalued: well, it's easy to say they print constructed staples at mythic in hindsight (once they have proven themselves), but what about all the mythics who spend months at a time being undervalued before shooting up? What about the rares that do this? You could have picked up all your sphinx's revs at 2-4 dollars for months after RTR, provided you didnt blow your money on jaces and vraskas. You could have had your entire mana base for about 60$ if you bought duals before they came back. You could have had olivia voldarens and falkenwrath aristocrats for 1/6th the price. Obviously some mythics start hyped and mostly stay there (obzedat), but saying they just print staples at mythic...implies that pricing is stable and what is a staple is stable.
Now, let's look at gatecrash- which mythics in this set, exactly, see more play than it's uncommons? None, as it happens. Obzedat and Aurelia are literally the only nonland GTC cards in the latest SCG top 8- and possibly the top 16.
The top Deck in the tournament, re-animator? You need 5 mythics, and they each cost as much or less than your shock lands. Oh, but that fair rare resto angel will be 18-20, thanks.
Is Geist of Saint Traft pricey? Yes, it's a multi-format all-star, and it started out its life undervalued and easily obtainable. Geist used to be a ''shrug'' mythic, where you didn't lose your value on the pack opening it. Liliana had a low point that made her nearly tradeable for a ravnica dual. Huntmaster of the Wild fells was the same damn way.
I think that lately, Wizards has been doing a very good job of dispersing value in sets compared to Zendikar/Scars era where EVERYTHING was mythics.
If you have problems with the pricing of mythics on the secondary market, I would argue that your real problem is that you aren't going out of your way to avoid paying a premium for the confirmation of popularity. Magic in general is very bubbley, very volatile, and economically dizzy. You can take advantage of this, or fall prey to it.
Depends on what your measuring stick is. Harder than the sets that immediately preceded the mythic rarity? Yes. Harder than ever? Not really. The one thing that has been constant since 1993 is that, with the sole exception of Fifth Edition, no card has even been rarer than 1 in 121 packs.
For example, Dragon's Maze, with mythics at 1 in 80, is comparable to a rare in Mirrodin, a set that had 88 rares if I recall correctly. Yeah, it's worse than Darksteel or Fifth Dawn that had 55, but remember that the 35 rares in Dragon's Maze are easier to get than those 55 would have been, so it balances out.
The only time cards have been printed at one in 121 per packs they where reprints.
The other thing that has been constant is about 200 rares per block == 800 packs per playset.
Now it is atleat 35 mythics perblock or 1200 packs per playset. Mythics 50% more rares than rares where.
Mirridion was a large set dragon maze is a small set, if you want to do a fair comparison you should compare
RTR to mirridion Mythics: 37.5% rarer , rares 32% less rare
Gate crash to dark steel: mythics 120% rarer, rares 10% rarer.
Dragon maze to 5th dawn: mythics 45% rare, rares 28% less rare.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
1. Making Timmys go "Ooooh".
2. Making Spikes and singles sellers buy more packs.
3. Giving MTGS one more thing to complain about.
If you ever thought that there was one reason more or less I think that you are mistaken.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Legends and Ice Age disagree with you. (Admittedly, I thought there were more, but just looked it up and they were at 1:110 instead of 1:121.)
Gatecrash to Darksteel isn't fair either - Gatecrash is a large set and Darksteel is a small set.
Don't forget core sets. Also Revised, 4th, and 10th had cards at 1 per 121.
And I guess we are just ignoring foils.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
If you can buy 3 playsets of 3 different mythics/rares for 4 dollars, and evaluate correctly that, based on how standard/modern/legacy progresses, at least one of those sets should see wide play, you completely mitigate the 32$ of potential waste if your other mythics rise as high as 12. You then even have the additional cards as potential trade fodder/ long term risers.
The nature of magic cards is that certain cards will always take the load of value, and fortunately this value tends to be factors higher than less played cards. Value fluctuates due too many factors, many of which the majority (who set the price) will fail to realize. This advantages someone who speculates readily and intelligently.
Yes, you could effectively ''lose'' 54$ dollars on those speculated cards, but chances are if they are even remotely reasonable cards they won't drop that much beyond 3-4 dollars, and will naturally recoup their costs with time. If you picked up karns and got sad that he dropped to next nothing, you are now rejoicing that karn is a 30$ powerhouse that nobody has enough of. Karn was always likely to retain some value due to his iconic, unique, and powerful nature, but he always had potential to inflate once the supply of him available dropped. If you bought him during hype, sure, you lose- but if you got your karns when he was nothing, well, you are sitting pretty. Patience is really very important in a collectible card game like this- liquidizing your cards when they rotate out of standard can backfire hilariously.
Reread the post I quoted. He said that core sets were the only ones at 1:121. I was giving the examples that disproved his claim.
And yes, I'm ignoring foils, since a foil card plays just the same as a nonfoil one.
Yes they can, just get rid of the mythic rarity altogether
aka Prey Upon
Alternatively I would be quite happy if they made all the mythics all the crap rares in the set OR all the good rares in the set, it would make prices go down, if ALL the mythics were playable the price spread would be more even, This is about consistancy.
I believe that will displease the people who like the mythic rarity.
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Didn't they also say that they wouldn't print utility cards at mythic?
My bad I thought those sets had u2s and u3s. The point about mythics it curent blocks being 50%+ more rare is still what is important.
They are both the second sets, What other set would you compare it against from miridion block? Mirridion is already taken by RTR.
The fact that RTR has two large sets while none mythic blocks only had one doesn't make those mythics any less rare.
They actully said there where many card types they didn't want to print at mythic, the only one they specified though was utility, which they never actually bothered to define.
They also said the mythics would be epic.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Mirror-mad phantasm is the perfect example of what a mythic rare should be. Tournament unplayable, but a cool effect for casual.
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I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
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Mythic rares are fine.
It's a GW 2/2, which is plain boring. It's effect to make tokens on dying or if an opponent plays something on your turn is not epic or unique, it sounds like its upsetting the fundamental ways to play the game and is just the spike "haha im so smart look at my card advantage efficient creature"
In the article it's described as utility to fight against the ultra popular UWX decks. Why should a utility bear be a mythic? Enter The Infinite feels mythicy, Omniscience feels mythicy (and sees play), Entreat the Angels, etc. But a bear specifically designed to give the most popular decks a hard time at mythic is stupid. They could just reprint Grand Abolisher in a core set instead.
I'll take heart in that fact when someone crushes me with this in day 1 of a GP.
You know what card is more annoying in limited, goblin test pilot.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.